Matt Cassel bandwagon..All Aboard!
by bullpen116 on Nov 26, 2008 9:50 AM CST
46 comments
Matt Cassel is blowing up in New England and It's his contract year. The guy sat behind Leinart at USC and is proving he can handle the NFL better than Matt. I'm sure you've noticed but our Houston Texans could use a decent QB. So what do you think BRB? Should we pursue Cassel? I'm all for it. I've seen enough of Schaub. He can't stay healthy, he gets rattled easily,etc. This is a situation where Bob McNair should step in and order Smithiak to make a move.
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No, Sir
It’s a fair question, considering the turnover issues surrounding Schaub and Rosenfels. But I wouldn’t pay what it’ll likely take for a guy who may simply be a product of the Patriot Way, especially when there are so many other areas that need attention (and thus money) more than QB.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Nov 26, 2008 9:58 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Let's see how the season plays out.
I would argue that when a guy throws for back to back 400 yard games, while protecting the football he’s not a product of a system. The Patriots do have some good players and good coaches, but he’s proving he can be successful.
As for money, I personally don’t care. Cut Schaub, take a one year cap hit, and move on.
I think unless you have a dominating defense you can’t win in this league unless you have a elite quarterback. Hell, even if you do have a great defense you still can’t win without a decent quarterback (see the Ravens, and Titans last year).
The bottom line to me is that we won’t ever win the Super Bowl with guys we have. Our offense is a lot closer to being NFL Elite status than our Defense. Good QB’s don’t grow on trees and if you draft a guy you don’t know what you’re getting. If Cassel keeps blowing up and he could potentially win a playoff game, how could you not want that? Free agent QB’s that are any good don’t come along very often.
With Schaub, he had never started other than the pre-season. With Cassell, you have a entire NFL season to review tape on the guy. Perhaps your opinion will change as the season goes along.
I mean if we can blow money on a guy like Anthony Weaver, why not blow some money on a guy who could potentially change the direction of this franchise?
- tyler
by bullpen116 on Nov 26, 2008 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Blowing Money
Giving Anthony Weaver $25,000,000.00 is not justification for bringing in Cassel; one mistake doesn’t excuse another. I’m simply not sold on Cassel. Someone’s going to give him a ton of money, and I think he’ll be more Culpepper than Brees for that new team.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Nov 26, 2008 11:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just remember that Andre Johnson, Demeco Ryans, Daunte Robinson..all those guys contracts are running out in the next couple of years.
If we aren’t winning by then, they will not resign and I won’t blame them. If we choose to stay with Schaub, I don’t think we’ll win. Look at his record when he is in the game. It’s not impresivie. He makes poor decisions in the red zone and costs us games.
- tyler
by bullpen116 on Nov 26, 2008 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Trent Dilfer has more Super Bowl rings than Dan Marino
…or Jim Kelly. Or Warren Moon. Or Dan Fouts. Or Fran Tarkenton. So does Brad Johnson. In other words, it isn’t necessary to bring in a big name quarterback to win a Super Bowl.
I would submit that Schaub is more than good enough to get us to the Super Bowl. He’s better, statistically, than Warren Moon was at the same point in his NFL career. Schaub is not the problem.
Cutting Schaub and signing Cassel means paying more for a guy who was almost as inexperienced as Schaub was. This makes no sense.
We need to improve our defense much more than we need to improve our offense. Throwing a ton of money at Cassel takes away from our ability to do that.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Nov 26, 2008 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone always points to Dilfer. How many teams out there have had the kind of success that Tampa Bay and Baltimore had the seasons they won the Super Bowl? I don’t want a game manager. I sure as hell don’t want a Trent Dilfer or a Brad Johnson. Cassel is no sure thing. I know that. But please tell me what the answer is then?
You guys want to draft a QB and wait another three years for that guy to develop, while we sign some Veteran to “manage” the team for a few seasons? Screw that. Take a chance. What do we have to lose?
This is a LOSING franchise, if we don’t do something that gives not only Fans but PLAYERS an Idea that we can be successful, then any good free agents won’t want to sign here.
So if you all think we can win with Schaub, we can agree to disagree. I would personally rather take a chance on someone, than sit around and hope we can draft someone who will be serviceable in a couple of years.
- tyler
by bullpen116 on Nov 26, 2008 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Schaub
I still believe the Houston Texans can win a championship with Schaub. I do think, however, that bringing in a QB should become a priority in the 2010 draft. I’m pretty sure Sage’s contract expires after next season, so the time will be right to bring in a young QB who can learn for a couple of years and then take the reins from Schaub.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Nov 26, 2008 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The answer is
That we have other priorities that need addressing more urgently than qb. Matt Schaub is not a fully-developed quarterback, but he is, as I’ve already pointed out, further along than Warren Moon was at the same point in his career (even though Moon already had several seasons as a pro qb under his belt in teh CFL).
Yes, this is a losing franchise. But going after problems that don’t exist is a waste of time and resources. The solution is to address our glaring problems on the defensive side of the ball, of which we have two: a crap defensive coordinator and poor talent at some positions.
If our defense was even average this year, this team would be in playoff contention. That’s not to say that Schaub’s interceptions haven’t been costly — they have. But they are much less significant than the fact that our defense can’t really stop anyone to save their lives.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Nov 26, 2008 12:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
I’m not sure our system needs the stud QB back there.
I agree we need a leader who can stay on the field, not make game-losing decisions at key points in the game, and can move around a little more than the two we’ve got. Other than that, we don’t need a hero back there. Sage is very effective some of the time, passable most of the time, and he doesn’t do ANY of those three things well.
When Schaub is healthy, he will win playoff games. So I feel we need a backup who doesn’t look like his helmet speaker is wired to the opposing coaches microphone.
We should spend a low round pick on the QB of the future, sure, but not high $$ Free Agency on that position.
Please draft some defensive stars for the next DC.
by texanphil on Nov 26, 2008 11:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
One other thing
Schaub has led us on two scoring drives with time running out in the fourth (Jacksonville and Miami). I don’t buy the idea that he couldn’t handle the pressure in the playoffs at all.
And yes, he’s had injury problems. But those are very closely (in fact directly, I would say) related to his known problem with taking cheap shots.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Nov 26, 2008 11:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How many Schabu turnovers have cost us games?
Cassel may not be the answer or overpriced or whatever, but at least he hasn’t killed his team with brutal turnovers that lose them games.
Give me a guy who can throw down the field and not fumble or throw picks at critical moments in the game.
If we got a “game manager” then everyone would be bitching that we don’t throw down the field, etc.
- tyler
by bullpen116 on Nov 26, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Cassel would be an improvement
possibly. But he’s not worth the $$ its gonna take. We need that money to sign a few defensive stars.
We have a top 10 offense. We don’t know if ANY of our team can win a playoff game, or how they will do in big games. The reason for this is because we HAVE NO DEFENSE. We are still in the fix whats broken stage, and the offense aint broke.
Please draft some defensive stars for the next DC.
by texanphil on Nov 26, 2008 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that Schaub's turnovers have cost us
The one game that stands out is the Tennessee game, but there are other problems that contributed.
Our sucky defense, however, cost us even more.
You think Cassel’s hasn’t cost his team games with turnovers? What about this, from nfl.com
It was over when …
Colts safety Bob Sanders intercepted Matt Cassel on fourth-and-15 with 4:40 remaining in the fourth quarter.
A lot of what you’re saying sounds like the criticism of Eli Manning from last year. Manning didn’t suddenly become a reincarnation of, well, his brother. What happened is that the team around him, particularly the defensive front, got better as the season wore on.
That’s where I think the Texans need to improve.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Nov 26, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid me
The quote should end after “fourth quarter.”
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Nov 26, 2008 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
re: Schaub's Injuries
I’m surprised that no BRBer has pointed this out already, but I’m fairly certain Matt Cassel’s knee would not hold up any better to Jared Allen’s lunges, or Florence’s cheap shot, or a Haynesworth man-wich.
Also, I’m not sure what you mean by Schaub getting “rattled easily”. He showed a bit of a Sophmore Slump for a few games early this year (some being at the end of pre-season), but he damn sure didn’t get rattled leading the game-winning drive against Miami. I actually submit that he is pretty damn poised for a 2nd year NFL QB.
However, if you want to attack his propensity for meeting a quota of redzone turnovers…..well, feel free. He’s a young QB, but that is definitely something that must be fixed. Permanently.
(Side Note: Is it reflecting on the coaches that both our QBs make the same retarded redzone turnovers?)
by Shake on Nov 26, 2008 12:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Cassel is a system quarterback
Interesting thing I read on TMQ the other day. It pointed out that Cassel’s success may be due mainly to New England’s system, specifically the offensive game plan of Josh McDaniels.
There is no guarantee that Cassel will be able to replicate his success in a system outside of NE. Their game plan is specifically tailored to make QBs successful, and it’d be a risk to bring a NE QB into a different offensive game plan. Just look at what happened in Seattle with Deion Branch when he left NE.
by MaloneyPony on Nov 27, 2008 7:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
NO
I don’t like cassell…he is solid but schaub is better…next year with (hopefully) everyone healthy to begin the saeson we will do great and be playoff bound…
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Nov 28, 2008 10:57 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
no cassel
cassel is in the same boat that schaub was in, decent backup qb with a better qb in front of him. i say if anything we go after brady, after the knee injury ne might let him go for less than he is worth, especially after the way that cassel has preformed
when will the losing end? THIS WEEK!!!!!!!
by m1 on Nov 30, 2008 11:59 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
So...
Is it fair, based on his performance against Pittsburgh, to say that Cassel hasn’t reached the status of “all that and a bag of chips?”
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Nov 30, 2008 6:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Schaub
and Super Bowl should never be in the same sentence. He is not leading any team to the Super Bowl, and most certainly not the Texans. The Texans are nowhere near Super Bowl contenders, and when they are; Schaub will not be around. He will be gone by next year the latest along with Kubiak, if not this year. I don’t know if Cassell is the answer. It seems like replacing 1a (Schaub) with 1b (Cassell). Houston needs to draft a QB and let him develop, or bring in someone proven. Stop throwing money at back ups and allow a QB to develop within one system. Until that happens, or a proven QB comes in, the Texans will be perennial losers.
by bryangene on Dec 1, 2008 12:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Houstonian looking in from the outside.
Not a troll.
by bryangene on Dec 1, 2008 12:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You could replace the words "Schaub"
With “Manning” in that comment, as long as you were talking about Eli and the date was 2007.
What, specifically, is it about Schaub that you think makes him doomed to failure? And which proven qb’s would be possible targets? I can’t imagine one that is any better than Schaub and won’t break the bank.
I happen to think that the Texans are a lot closer to at least being in the playoffs than people think. If they have only an average defense this year, they would likely be right in the thick of things, erratic quarterback play notwithstanding.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 1, 2008 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The close to playoffs
argument is used every year in Houston. Unfortunately, living in Houston means I have to listen to Houston Sports radio. It’s a broken record played every year. Matt Schaub does not have the intangibles to be a Super Bowl quarterback. Manning has a strong work ethic, not injury prone, and a complete knowledge of the game. He also has a good coach and solid offensive line. What does Schaub have? What has he done to show you he’s a potential Super Bowl QB. The answer is nothing.
Without breaking the bank, there is no QB you can really target. Maybe you can get McNabb for cheap who would be an instant upgrade, but that is not likely. You want a QB who gives you an opportunity to win; not one who you question whether he will or will not throw a pick every time you reach the red zone.
The only viable alternative is to let a young QB grow and develop, and not throw them out there. Unless you get extremely lucky and get someone like a Matt Ryan. Houston can do a complete 180 next season, but it will not happen with Schaub.
by bryangene on Dec 1, 2008 1:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Derek Anderson
also outside possibility.
by bryangene on Dec 1, 2008 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dear God
No
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 1, 2008 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know Schaub doesn't have intangibles
If you can’t measure them?
By all accounts, Schaub’s work ethic is the equal to that of anyone in the league. I’m worried about Schaub’s injuries, too, but I wonder how much of that is due to the fact that he’s fragile or due to the fact that he’s taken some very cheap shots.
What about the drives against Jacksonville and Miami? Schaub showed a ton of composure in those situations. Furthermore, as I said up the post a little ways, you don’t need a Dan Marino to win a Super Bowl. And I would submit that Schaub is better than a few qb’s who have won the Super Bowl (like Brad Johnson).
I, for one, have never thought that the Texans have been close to the playoffs. I think this is the only year where making such a statement only requires the suspension of disbelief about one part of the franchise (i.e. the defense) as opposed to the whole thing.
And like I said at the beginning of this thread, replacing Schaub is far less of a concern than replacing Richard Smith, Petey Faggins, Anthony Weaver and Travis Johnson.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 1, 2008 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We can measure
by stats or Wins and Losses. You decide. I’m not saying Schaub is an immediate need because the Texans will still be under .500 this time next year. They’re always 1-2 years away. In my opinion, Schuab has 1 more year to prove himself. Under a new system, it seems highly unlikely. Comparing Schuab to Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer isn’t saying much about your franchise QB
by bryangene on Dec 1, 2008 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're not trolling...
you’re just a big Cowboys fan.
Potayto, Potahto
by Shake on Dec 1, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmm
Astros fan, Rockets fan, Cowboys fan
One of these things is not like the others (one of these things does not belong).
by Only_A_Lad on Dec 1, 2008 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Do you watch the show "Life"?
Because based on that quote, you definitely should.
by Shake on Dec 2, 2008 10:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Here we go again with the wins and losses
Wins and losses are a crappy way to measure how good a quarterback is. They’re a better way to measure how good a team is, though.
And I compared Schaub to Johnson or Dilfer (well, specifically it was Johnson) only to the extent that I said that Schaub was better than Johnson. So if the evaluation is that he’s better than an admittedly pedestrian (but Super Bowl-winning) quarterback, then I would say that the comparison is apt for a franchise qb.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 1, 2008 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And that's still not responsive to my
admittedly rhetorical question: how can you tell if a quarterback lacks intangibles since, by definition, you can’t measure them?
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 1, 2008 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That Matt Schaub
He’d be a hell of a quarterback, if only he had some intangibles, huh?
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 8, 2008 8:49 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's let the season play out
guys, give matt schaub a break. he has been working so hard for his job (i think) and we should give him a bit more chance. I think since we got rid off David Carr, a bunch of Texans fans have grown REALLY impatient with him in his first two seasons even though we let David ruin our club for its debut 4 seasons! i’m not disagreeing, just saying we could be a little more forgiving, thats all.
by jazzcat108 on Dec 1, 2008 10:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
michael vick is available..if he picked texas years ago they never would have found all the dog carcasses on a sprawling texas ranch with coyotes, chublacabras, chuck norris and all. in suburban VA he had to awkwardly hide them in mailboxes and under ceramic planters. might be a good fit.
by raven on Dec 2, 2008 12:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great win last night.
I enjoyed the game thoroughly.
That said, you could proably get either Vince Young or Kerry Collins to QB the Texans next year. It is extremely unlikely that the Titans keep both, and either would probably help the Texans—at least in the short term. With Vince, you would sell tickets and improve your running game considerably. With KC, you’d get better decision-making in the red zone.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 2, 2008 9:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I’d take Kerry, but not VY. We don’t really need another running threat, and Kerry’s accuracy and ability to manage games would work well with our weapons (Slaton, AJ, Owen Daniels).
But I’d really like your DC and some of your corners.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 2, 2008 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On second thought
VY backing up Schaub would be kind of cool, in an ironic, schadenfreude-filled way.
Who do you think the Titans will keep?
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 2, 2008 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The smartest play would seem to be...
…keeping VY and Chris Simms. You would then consider drafting a mid- to late-round QB, and in the disaster scenario have Simms to manage the team with a new guy to back him up. But I’ve never been a big fan of paying could-be washed-up FA’s a lot of money.
KC is obviously playing well right now, but there is an upper limit to what he can do, and we’ve already hit it at least once this year—against the Jets. And, I mean, he’s only completing 58% of his passes. Most folks wouldn’t break the bank for that. Hell, VY can complete 58% of his passes and maybe run for a 1st Down or two. VY might also give you some more INTs, but 58% isn’t exactly world-beating.
But that is what I would do. I think that the Titans will re-sign VY, hang on to Simms, and looks to trade Vince.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 2, 2008 10:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oops. Meant re-sign KC, keep Simms, and trade VY for a 4th. Then chalk it all up to Floyd Reese.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 2, 2008 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So,
That would be an admission by Bud Adams that maybe he was wrong about VY?
FWIW I always thought Floyd Reese was pretty good.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 2, 2008 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think that Floyd Reese was pretty good.
I also thought he got a bum-rap for basically doing what he was asked—holding a near-Championship caliber team together for as long as humanly possible. He was maybe not as good as the current crew at evaluating top-of-the-draft talent (Pacman, Ben Troupe, Tyrone Calico, to name three), but he always did VERY well at finding good players in the later rounds.
But that’s really beside the point. My point was that Reese has gone on TV and publicly gotten behind the Titans picking VY in the #3 spot. Which means that Adams doesn’t have to admit that he was wrong. He could potentially cut VY at the season’s end, and save face by blaming it all on Reese, saying in effect that they’d have never taken VY at all if not for the influence of Reese in the first place. That would also allow him to make the final peace with Fisher—who may make the best out of the situation with VY—but who (along with Chow) also clearly wanted Lineart way back when.
Still, the best move doesn’t require face-saving. Keep VY, pump him as a very good QB who is nonetheless not going to play as long as you are winning, and accept whatever you can get in a trade next year. That beats giving him a release by a mile, even if all you get is a 5th rounder. Plenty of teams need a back-up, and VY’s salary is manageable for that next year.
DannoE
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
Go Titans!
by DannoE on Dec 2, 2008 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Falcons managed
…to con some team into coughing up a couple of 2nd rounders for their back up qb. ;-)
Of course, last year they wanted a mulligan. This year, not so much.
What do you think you guys could get for VY? Third rounder?
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 2, 2008 12:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I don't see VY
switching teams next season. He is still their QB of the future. Collins will be available if anything.
by bryangene on Dec 2, 2008 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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