Wayne vs. Johnson vs. Fitzgerald
by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 10:07 AM CDT
521 comments
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*Author's Note* To continue the dialogue as to who is the best reciever in the NFL, i've amended this blog to include Larry Fitzgerald, who is, besides AJ, the OTHER guy considered to be one of the best in the league.
is this really a debate? i guess it is in the minds of Colt fans. but just for the sake of arguement, lets compare the two. first the numbers.. (which don't lie)
| Career Stats | Receiving | Kickoff Returns | Punt Returns | Fumbles | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Season | Team | G | Rec | Yds | Y/G | Avg | Lng | YAC | 1stD | TD | KR | Yds | Avg | Long | TD | PR | Yds | Avg | Long | TD | Fum | FumL | |||||||||
| 2003-04 | Houston | 16 | 66 | 976 | 61.0 | 14.8 | 46 | 6.7 | 45 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| 2004-05 | Houston | 16 | 79 | 1142 | 71.4 | 14.5 | 54 | 6.2 | 53 | 6 | 0 | 0 | N/A | N/A | 0 | 0 | 0 | N/A | N/A | 0 | 1 | 1 | |||||||||
| 2005-06 | Houston | 13 | 63 | 688 | 52.9 | 10.9 | 53 | 3.6 | 40 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | |||||||||
| 2006-07 | Houston | 16 | 103 | 1147 | 71.7 | 11.1 | 53 | 4.5 | 55 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | |||||||||
| 2007-08 | Houston | 9 | 60 | 851 | 94.6 | 14.2 | 77 | 4.4 | 39 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | |||||||||
| 2008-09 | Houston | 16 | 115 | 1575 | 98.4 | 13.7 | 65 | 4.3 | 79 | 8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | |||||||||
| 2009-10 | Houston | 6 | 36 | 572 | 95.3 | 15.9 | 72 | 5.9 | 22 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |||||||||
| Career | 92 | 522 | 6951 | 75.6 | 13.3 | 77 | 5.0 | 333 | 37 | 0 | 0 | N/A | N/A | 0 | 0 | 0 | N/A | N/A | 0 | 5 | 4 | ||||||||||
| 2009 | Indianapolis Colts | 5 | 5 | 32 | 459 | 14.3 | 39 | 4 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| 2008 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 16 | 82 | 1,145 | 14.0 | 65T | 6 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| 2007 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 16 | 104 | 1,510 | 14.5 | 64 | 10 | 1 | 4 | 4.0 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 3 |
| 2006 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 16 | 86 | 1,310 | 15.2 | 51T | 9 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 1 | 0 |
| 2005 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 16 | 83 | 1,055 | 12.7 | 66T | 5 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 1 | 0 |
| 2004 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 16 | 77 | 1,210 | 15.7 | 71T | 12 | 1 | -4 | -4.0 | -4 | 0 | -- | -- |
| 2003 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 16 | 68 | 838 | 12.3 | 57T | 7 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| 2002 | Indianapolis Colts | 16 | 7 | 49 | 716 | 14.6 | 49 | 4 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | 2 | 1 |
| 2001 | Indianapolis Colts | 13 | 9 | 27 | 345 | 12.8 | 43 | 0 | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- | -- |
| TOTAL | 608 | 8,588 | 14.1 | 71 | 57 | 2 | 0 | 0.0 | 4 | 0 | 7 | 4 | |||
|
Larry Fitzgerald: Year |
Team | G | Rec | Yds | Avg | Yds/G | Lng | TD | 20+ | 40+ | 1st | FUM |
| 2009 | Arizona Cardinals | 5 | 35 | 360 | 10.3 | 72.0 | 26T | 5 | 4 | 0 | 23 | 0 |
| 2008 | Arizona Cardinals | 16 | 96 | 1,431 | 14.9 | 89.4 | 78T | 12 | 20 | 5 | 66 | 1 |
| 2007 | Arizona Cardinals | 15 | 100 | 1,409 | 14.1 | 93.9 | 48T | 10 | 19 | 4 | 69 | 3 |
| 2006 | Arizona Cardinals | 13 | 69 | 946 | 13.7 | 72.8 | 57 | 6 | 11 | 2 | 52 | 0 |
| 2005 | Arizona Cardinals | 16 | 103 | 1,409 | 13.7 | 88.1 | 47 | 10 | 27 | 4 | 67 | 0 |
| 2004 | Arizona Cardinals | 16 | 58 | 780 | 13.4 | 48.8 | 48 | 8 | 15 | 1 | 36 | 1 |
| TOTAL | 81 | 461 | 6,335 | 13.7 | 78.2 | 78 | 51 | 96 | 16 | 313 | 5 | |
so while Wayne's numbers are higher, he has also been in the league 3 more years than Dre, not mentioning the fact that for the first couple of years, Dre had "mittens" while Wayne has had Paytun Maneng the whole time. (intentional misspell, pisses off Colt fans) to me, the best year to match em up and stack em against one another is 08. dre caught 115 balls, for 1575 yds, averaging right at 98.4 yds per game, 13.7 yac. During that same time, Wayne caught 82 balls for 1,145 yds, 14.0 yac. so far this year, dre is already surpassing wayne's numbers. that's playing the Jets, the Jags, the TITS and the Cards. all the while with a no name QB.... that the league doesn't really respect. (yet) on the Colts, Wayne is Pei-Ton's main guy. and he's STILL behind dre. i would love to hear Colt rebuttal, but the numbers DONT LIE.... AJ is the best reciever on the PLANET. hands down. do you think that Wayne can flip a LB who tries to tackle him? one handed grab while walking the tight rope down the sideline? cmon now... is this really an arguement worth having?????
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Don't foget
that Harrison faced double teams while Wayne was played against one on one coverage for years.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 10:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure where the numbers point to Andre being better
Reggie is statistically superior in every category and if you average it out to 3 years Andre is short, they are basically the same receiver, numbers wise. Wayne catches .03 more TDs per game than Johnson. Reg has a higher receiving average. AND he may have had Peyton throwing to him (is Jerry Rice any less legendary because he had Steve Young?) but he also played second fiddle to Marv for 7 of his 9 years. Andre has been the one and only receiver in Houston his entire career.
This might get the ball rolling.
Oh and your question on do you think Reggie can make a one handed grab while tight roping the sideline, have you ever seen a Colts game? Andre may or may not be better than Reggie Wayne (I personally think they’re basically the same guy) but if you’re going to make claims of Andre being able to do stuff that no other receiver can do, you better make sure that no other receiver can do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebX8C9vxoQ4
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 10:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
(is Jerry Rice any less legendary because he had Steve Young?)
What’s that supposed to mean?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't hold a receiver accountable
for having a damn good QB throwing to him.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But having a damn good QB
makes a ton of difference. And you know that’s true.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do but I think having Marv
negates a good amount of it. Andre gets so much more thrown his way.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marv did get more touches than Wayne
when he was still around but he still benefited from the defenses targeting Harrison most of the time. The ball would either go to him or Clark.
And yeah Andre does get so much more thrown his way, but were all those on target? I dont think so. As you can see, AJ RARELY drops balls that are thrown his way. If he had a quality QB throwing to him, his numbers would be exponentially better.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're willing to look at the small sample size of this year
Matt Schaub is the fifth best QB in the league so far, Peyton is fourth, and Reggie Wayne is the eighth best receiver to Andre Johnson’s ranking at 37. Again all of this coming from football outsiders.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your point?
i only referenced it because it shows that so far Dre is ahead.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point is look at this QB he has right now
and he still isn’t doing anything out of this world. He’s a human highlight reel, but number of appearances on SportsCenter’s top 10 doesn’t make a receiver.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me see if I am understanding you correctly. You are forming your opinion based on a website that lists Andre Johnson as the 37th best receiver in the league? Am I reading this correctly?
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am basing my opinion
on an objective website that is highly respected for its advanced statistics. Its like using PECOTA or Sabermetrics for ranking baseball players. Its the best objective source that you can use to unbiasedly rank players of the same position against each other. So in a word. Yes.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse my bluntness but anyone who throws some numbers together and says that 36 receivers are better than Andre Johnson is a complete retard. I dont care how many advanced formulas and equations they use, its dumb as shit.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 8 recs
and thatz why....
you are the G.O.A.T sir. rec’d!
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't saying he's the 37th best in the league
Did you even read the links? It states that too date, from September 1 to October 21 his accomplishments rank him 37th amongst receivers with 20 or more receptions. It in no way, shape, or form is saying he’s behind that many guys as career, however he is behind that many through the first 6 weeks of 2009-2010.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that.
But really from week one to week 6, would you actually pick Collie, Josh Morgan, Sidney Rice over AJ?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we throw out the names and take soley empirical evidence
Yes. If you ask me Collie, Morgan, RIce or Johnson, I’d laugh at you and tell you, you are retarded if you take anyone but Johnson.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if doesnt really matter if you renamed Josh Morgan to Nancy Sandyvagina, 13 catches for 202 yards and 1 TD losing your starting job in SanFran is not better than 36 catches for 572 yards and 4 TDs.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the big thing missing from there is considering the targets they both got
13 catches for 202 yards and 1 TD on 22 targets
vs
36 catches for 572 yards and 4 TDs on 66 targets
looking at WR numbers without considering targets is like judging RBs by total rushing yards, not considering YPC.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but thats still not great. If the guy isn’t open they’ll simply be targeted less.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its Detective
Sandyvagina.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its saying hes behind them this year, which is dumb as shit. So you are honestly going to sit here and say that ‘this year’ Josh Morgan is a better receiver?
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does that even make sense? Morgan has 200 yards this year.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because they used a bunch of math equations, so clearly they know what they are talking about!
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah Sidney Rice is better
Because he has old man Favre throwing him the ball.
Hail Brit Farvaaaaa!
But really, I dont wanna talk bad about FO because I admit, I dont understand the equation but it just doesn’t make sense to have Josh Morgan ranked higher than AJ in effectiveness.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I mean… their numbers don’t compare at all. So their equations are tripping me out. Even based on empircal evidence AJ has almost as many yards and tds as anyone this year, so how is he 37th?
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it takes into account things like
stats adjusted for defenses, effective yards, catch rates so on and so forth. SO, with only six games under their belt the numbers are skewed somewhat.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also known as, they made a bunch of shit up and injected their own opinions in the form of equations.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I’m sure they have reason to hate on Andre Johnson and are wasting their time making up equations to do it.
by Frost on Oct 21, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bu even when you take those into considerations.
Do you honestly think that those receiver are better than Andre Johnson this year?
Im not talking about Aj should be ranked higher than Wayne, im talking about how those other players are ranked higher than Johnson
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a small sample and obviously effected by teammates
but it’s free from subjective judgments and homerism.
The 36 WRs currently ranked ahead of Johnson aren’t nessarily better, but they, along with smaller contributions from their OL/QB/fellow WRs have been more effective so far.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you cant honestly sit there with a straight face and say that. The thing is FULL with subjective judgments.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you support that with what beyond your own subjective judgement?
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So....
you’re saying that using FO to support your argument about who’s better between AJ and Wayne would be irrelevant?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no I'm saying it's not perfect, but at least it's objective.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and accounts for some things that often are missed
- of targets, strength of schedule, garbage time, 1st downs/yardage towards 1st downs
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*
number of targets
always forget that the number sign triggers an autoformat.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok I think we are going back and forth so much the pyramid quote is about to be 2 words per line.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
garbage time
I wonder if they discounted his two touchdowns at AZ since we were down 21-0 at the time?
How do you define garbage time?
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't have to be perfect.
From what i’ve read, it measures the effectiveness of that player and there are other variables to be considered. Blah Blah Blah. I dont fully understand. But from what I understand, it doesn’t measure what a player does when the ball is not thrown to them. It doesn’t show how much of a threat they are even when they’re not the target for that play. The thought of AJ strikes fear in every single NFL team. Reggie Wayne, not so much.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Wayne is in a team without a supporting cast.
Do you think he’d put up the same numbers that he’s putting up? Andre was in a crappy team till 2 years ago.
Wayne is more effective in his environment but who wouldn’t be if they were in the same scenario as him?
FO measures the effectiveness of each player and other different variables like you said. But you can’t honestly say that those other receivers are better than Andre freakin Johnson.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they are better
I think if you assign WRs all the credit for their receptions/yards/TDs, take into account the stuff I mentioned above then the WRs ranked above him have contributed more to making their team win.
Obviously there’s value in drawing coverage, and WR production is affected by QB, OL, other receiving targets.
What the FO numbers show is that a lot of Johnson’s raw numbers hasn’t been was useful to the team as you’d expect. I’ll look at a few things I know that led to counter-intuitive results from FO to see if there’s a clear reason for it.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like a combination of the factors I know
His catch% is a little low, the opponent adjustments are downgrading the Texans Passing O a ways, and he has a bit less first downs than you’d expect from someone with as many receptions and yards as he does.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wayne
is on a team where if the defense so much as double teams him for a single play, Peetun is good enough to find the open man from one of his 2-3 other very talented and capable receivers and has the O-Line to give him the time to do it. Andre pulls 2-3 man coverage every play and Schaub, although doing very well, is awful when pressured… which with our O-Line is only a short matter of time before he’s looking down the barrel.
There is nothing else there. Andre (and i’m sure Wayne too) Catch the vast majority of the balls that are catchable. really doesnt matter after that. “Did’nt have a high percent of catches for a first down” is BS if the QB throws to him before the marker. AJ took down 3 defenders for a TD against AZ. that stuff is on the QB and playcalling.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 2:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like
a worthless site to me.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was about to voice my opinion
But when this comment is the most rec’d comment in the thread it is not worth it, as advanced stats analysis is considered retarded in this blog. Good luck sunday.
Excuse my bluntness but anyone who throws some numbers together and says that 36 receivers are better than Andre Johnson is a complete retard. I dont care how many advanced formulas and equations they use, its dumb as shit.
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 9:50 AM PDT
by thebossuzzi on Nov 2, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
The post you quoted only has 8 recs, while the graph below from TF has 18 recs. So unless my math is off, this is in fact not the most rec’d comment in the thread.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
by Shake on Nov 2, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
your self proclaimed best year to compare, Reggie Wayne WAS better than Andre Johnson. Add on the 33 catches that Dre had compared to Reggie and Reggie had 1600 receiving yards to Andre’s 1575.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im even more confused.
Where are you getting these numbers?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the numbers above and a calculator
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you notice...
i didn’t “future” forecast any numbers because you can’t do that. you can’t assume anything, especially in the NFL. one game to the next is different. so your point has no merit. @AJ.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't forecast the future.
I averaged out the past. All these numbers are based on results not on projections. History not hope.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
future of the season you looked at.
not future of the .. future.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 2:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just think about the Mittens era.
Other than Andre, the texans didn’t have any other receiving threat. Corey Bradford? Billy Miller? Jabar Gaffney? We didn’t even have a running game. Well we did if you are on meth and you consider Jonathan Wells and Stacey Mack a deadly 1-2 combo.
On the other hand. To take the pressure and the coverage off Wayne. There was Harrison, Clark. Yall had a decent running game and a Pro Bowl QB. And that makes a heck of a difference. If Andre had those kind of peple around him during his first couple of years, his numbers would be waaaay better than Wayne’s.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:12 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
my point exactly.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
I’ve been saying this all week. But Colt fans just go find some obscure website, because any real person knows AJ is the best.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats just pure Homerism
anyway you cut and shape what you just said it spells HOMER…
The way our defense is set up, it puts me in situations where I'm one-on-one in making tackles on running backs. When I go into it, I think I am going to win. It really doesn't matter the size, height, weight, whatever. I'm not afraid of putting my body in there." - Bob Sanders
by coltsfan723 on Oct 21, 2009 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gaffney has been
Lighting it up for Denver as their slot guy
You can't fix Dumb
by Texans-Brocos on Oct 21, 2009 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is an objective site for comparing WR statistics year to year
2008 Andre was the best receiver in the league, I don’t think anyone can argue with that. Outside of that Reggie was better than Andre every year. Andre never finished in the top 10 receivers. I’ll let you see where Reggie finished.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would listen to another fan argue Reggie Wayne’s case. Even though I personally believe AJ is the better receiver, I would at least entertain someone having Wayne in the conversation. But when you come with some bullshit website that lists the likes of Sidney Rice, Kelley Washington, Miles Austin, Austin Collie, and Josh Fucking Morgan as being better receivers than Andre Johnson, no one is going to take you seriously. Am I being trolled?
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But come one man!
Kelley Washington does the squirrel dance when he scores!
You can’t argue with that!
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
again...
with the squirrel dance. jeeeeeeeeezus.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Made me laugh when I was a kid man!
Still makes laugh!
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and again......
i have to reference back to the QB arguement. if Dre had Shaubby HIS entire career, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Look,
the QB throwing the ball has everything to do with a receivers stats. Put AJ with Payton and his numbers would have been better than they were in the begining. Put AJ with Brady and his numbers would have been way better. If Mittes was still our QB we wouldn’t even be having this conversation b/c AJ would not have anywhere near the numbers to be included in the debate it woul probably be between Wayne and Moss and you know the reason why.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good point.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Wayne played for the Texans
While Mittens was our QB. Would he have the same number that he has now?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way in hell.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you got that right!
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moss is an AJ prototype if he were with a prolific passer like Brady/Manning
would you say that is fair?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've come to the conclusion that
Texans fans and Colts fans shouldn’t be arguing who is better between Wayne and Johnson. We are purely biased. If someone from outside the texans or colts fandom would discuss this, I would take their word for it.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lets get a jags fan opinion....
be right back…
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you really wanna do that?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im down.
They never really had a reliable receiver.
So their opinion would count more than ours.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we need to bring in more
than just divisional biases in this discussion. Just a thought. I don’t know about your relations with Jags fans, but they HATE us Colts fans and the Colts. Not so sure it would be an objective opinion. Of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We hate the Colts too
But I can respect their fans because they can discuss and debate a topic. And they’re able to form coherent sentences and use supporting evidences for their claims.
That doesn’t apply to Big Bad Brad though.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't hate on
McCardell and Smith they were respectable recievers.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
^^ This
although my personal opinion is that they are the same receiver. Take quantity and quality all into account and it is my personal opinion that they become the same individual. I just have to ride to Reggie’s side as the Colts homer that I am. :-)
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah we're all die hard fans.
You can’t expect a texans fan to pick Wayne over AJ and vice versa.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well all I’ve heard for the last year is AJ and Fitz are the two best recievers in the game hands down. From pretty much every source.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha! i know right?
which confused me when i saw them yackin’ on about reggie even being CONSIDERED.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a Cards fan
I’d take Johnson (unless Peyton comes with Wayne). Reggie Wayne has had an IDEAL situation his entire career with arguably the best QB in the league, an pass-first offense and several other legit threats. Johnson has been a one man show for most of his career and still post similar numbers.
There’s no question in my mind who the #2 WR in the league is (behind Fitz of course) and it’s AJ.
Be careful....to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
by Bezekira on Oct 21, 2009 11:56 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Duly noted good sir.
It’s a good thing that the Texans dont see much of the Cards.
Agruments over who’s better between AJ amd Fitz would dominate the conversation.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would even as a texans fan argue its too close to call. They are both absurdly good.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
And I don’t have a problem debating Fitz and AJ. But Wayne doesn’t belong in the same sentence as those two.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup.
we will save that one for another blog. i couldn’t think of a better way to PROVE to colt fans that they live in a damn bubble… then by allowing the SB Nation to bust that muh fukker for em’.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Job Sir
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Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on...
You want to compare 2008, I think it is interesting that you pick a year in which Manning was playing horribly for the first 4-5 games.
It does not matter. Texans want AJ, Colts want Wayne.
As a colts fan, I would take Waynes one handed acrobat catches anytime.
We should really get Cards fans in here to discuss AJ, Wayne, and Fitz!!!
by SupermanWearsBobSander'sPJs on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that year
we also had The Rosenchopper starting for us a couple of games. A horrible Paytun Manung is still better than Rosenchopper.
And yeah from just about every source, the conversation is usually about AJ and Fitz.
I never hear anything about Wayne. Only from Colt fans.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you rarely hear about the Colts other than from Colts fans
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't be fucking serious
How many nationally fucking televised games did you have already this year? I live in SoCal and I hear about the colts just about as much as any other team. GTFO with that nonsense.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Houston.
And all I hear about is the Texans or the team that’s facing the texans the current week. But im pretty damn sure outside of Houston, people have heard more about the colts than the texans.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell trust me you never hear about the Texans out here. I hear about the colts 10 times as much. Seriously. This guy must just be trolling at this point. I’m done with him.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Qatar
And all I ever hear about is falconry and camel racing.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 21, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
falconry...
reminds me of a seinfeld episode.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
camel toe? what?
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Fro Camel toe!
You can't fix Dumb
by Texans-Brocos on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Falconry and Camel Racing
Rec’d for being an instant classic.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Oct 22, 2009 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw (before getting satellite TV)
5 Texans games between 02 and 06. only if the chiefs played them basically. I see a Colts game on basic cable once every 2-3 weeks.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only time you hear about the Colts
is when someone is hating on them. A la Marshall Faulk or Peter King or Michael Silver, the list goes on and on. Thank god they win or it would be a bloodbath.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you cant be serious. All the networks swing from Mannings sack like daily. Are you like living in some kind of bizarro dimension or something? Maybe thats where AJ is ranked 37th.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's basically forced them to do so
as soon as Brady gets back in the swing of things it will be back to second fiddle for Manning, no matter the numbers.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well from what i've been hearing.
The talks are either about the Saints, Colts and the Giants. That’s a lot of manning going around for one season.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Try 32nd fiddle.
It’s all perspective. Get some.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO
You don’t get it. The colts get NO RESPECT man. They only have 16 prime time games this year. I mean wtf? What about preseason? Ranked in the top 5 on everyones power rankings? WTF? Why aren’t we number one all the time always. MY VAGINA HURTS.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thats where he belongs.
Behind the guy with all the rings. Has Payton ever thrown 5 Td’s in a quarter ? No.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats not even relivant cause
1. the Titans suck something awful and
2. the titans totally gave up before they even walked on the field.
Tim Couch could have throw 5 tds in a quarter against that secondary
The way our defense is set up, it puts me in situations where I'm one-on-one in making tackles on running backs. When I go into it, I think I am going to win. It really doesn't matter the size, height, weight, whatever. I'm not afraid of putting my body in there." - Bob Sanders
by coltsfan723 on Oct 21, 2009 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paytun plays the TITs twice.
He should put up about 20 TD’s in those games then.
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by CFHTim on Oct 22, 2009 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peter King talks about Peyton Manning all the time
It’s just hard to understand with Brett Favre’s nutsack in his mouth.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 21, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Whats amazing
Is he seems to be able fit Favre’s and Brady’s in there AT THE SAME TIME. Its amazing.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a true pro! haha
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you want to throw out a less than 100% Manning, but we have to accept David fucking Carr?
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 21, 2009 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Poor choice of words.
From what I heard, any mention of David Carr is a banning offense.
He shall be refered to as either Mr. Mittens or Captain Hairspray.
Any other nicknames are also acceptable.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Zoolander
Sandy Vag
Mr. Darcy Maeda
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Oct 24, 2009 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
for the 1st Darcy reference in the past year.
by Shake on Oct 24, 2009 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh hell yeah
Note to self: Insert something witty here.
by bigfatdrunk on Oct 27, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a Jags fan I don't have a dog in this fight
So I approach it as who would I rather have on my team. My answer isn’t close – give me Johnson – I think he’s the #1 WR in the league with Fitzgerald of the Cards an extremely close 2nd. Wayne is awesome but Johnson is a true beast.
by OGN on Oct 21, 2009 12:17 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
not sure I'd argue with that
but someone has got to ride to Reggie’s defense. I’d rank them Johnson 1a, Fitz 1b, and Reggie a close 3.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jags.... cards... AND vikes. all in agreement.
our guy kicks your guy’s ASS.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you're whole arguement on this board
has been for the single fact that you feel inclined to “ride to Reggie’s defense”? and then you admit that you’d put him 3rd? what the fuck is the whole … nearly 200 comments on this board about? wtf is going on? Where the fuck did i put my beer and when did it become 3am?
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardsfan here It's Jonhson all day every day
Johnson is the most complete WR in the game. Here’s his case. Johnson’s athlectic arrogance is off the charts. He is dynamically explosive both vertically and horizonatally. The OC can ask Andre Johnson to run every route on the route tree and Johnson can do it better THAN any other WR in football. Johnson has better deep speed than both Fitzgerald and Wayne and it’s not even close. The smash route and shallow crossing route, which are routes run into the teeth of a defense Johnson has and will run them knowing he will have to get hit in the mouth by LB’S and Safety’s (no alligator arms.)
Wayne, while a great player has had Marvin Harrison (future HOF) playing opposite him drawing coverage. Peyton has been his QB his entire career. The TE’S haven’t been bad either in the Colts system.
Fitzgerald has had the benifit of having a dominate Pro-bowl player opposite him in Anquan Boldin tilting coverage away from him up until last years play-off run. DC’s have to game plan to stop Boldin espcially in the redzone freeing up Fitz for one on one coverage. There had been questions as to whether Fitz was the best player on his TEAM when Boldin is healthy.
Fitz has one thing on Andre and that’s his superior ball skills as a fade or jump ball WR in the redzone.
Johnson is a amazing player with the courage to go across the middle (CATCHING IN TRAFFIC) and the deep speed to take it to the house when he gets separation from DB’s. Jonhson has been his teams primary offense force with little to no help almost his entire career, yet he remains dominate and consistent.
If Andre Johnson were in New York (Giants or Jets) they would name a CANDY BAR after him.
by Cardsfan81 on Oct 24, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Vikes Fan says
Johnson by a mile. He has that ability to beat you all by himself like AP does. That is the rarest of abilities.
by Jepp The Viking on Oct 21, 2009 12:24 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
AJ and Purple Jesus in the same team.
drools
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
purple jesus! hahahahaha!
hey jepp…. pray that Favre doesn’t get hurt.
or you may see…
the return of the rosencopter.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aight got a midterm to study for
I’ll have to leave you to entertain yourselves for a bit. Good stuff all around.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good Luck with that.
Chime in later when everything is done.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a way that we can see the breakdown of the votes?
And thanks Chris.
Im not getting any work done. And it’s already lunchtime WTF?!
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
whatz it u say bout dunta???
fuck work.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I say about Dunta?
I say “Fuck Dunta!”
And “Fuck Jared Allen” too.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
To argue that ANY receiver in the league is better than Andre Johnson is BEYOND stupid.
Let’s put it this way. If both had the same quarterback, who would be leading?
If Aj is putting up comparable or better number with David Carr as his QB for years, where would e be with Manning for that period?
Come on, Reggie Wayne isn’t even in the CONVERSATION for best receiver in the league.
This is laughable.
If you had a choice between, Fitzgerald, Johnson and Reggie Wayne for your team, 100 out of 100 non-Colts fans would NOT pick Reggie Wayne.
This is silly.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
true.
but i wanted to see WHY they felt that way. i noticed on that previous blog that they were saying it, but nothing as of yet that i’ve seen persuades me otherwise…. i still feel AJ is the best WR in the league.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dropping down to avoid crunching against the margin
What I’m getting at with the FO numbers is that the (valid) argument for Johnson over Wayne has to be made with subjective factors (or at least factors that can’t be objectively built into WR stats at this point) rather than purely objective where Reggie Wayne excels (thanks at least in part to having Peyton Manning throwing to him and for a long period Marvin Harrison across from him).
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
cmon man.
dude you aren’t even taking into account the fact that like someone said earlier, DRE HAS BEEN OUR #1 SINCE DAY1. meaning, he ALWAYS gets double coverage. Wayne had Harrison so a lot of his catches were against the #2 DB of whatever team you guys played. how can you even compare, considering Dre ALWAYS has gone against the best of the best?
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an example of what i was talking about
comparing the raw numbers, or worse the advanced stats between the two is a poor way to make a case for Johnson, because they favor Wayne and there a legitimate issues to be raised with considering ceteris paribus (everything else equal) between outside of Wayne and Johnson themselves.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*
are legitimate issues to be raised with considering ceteris paribus (everything else equal) outside of Wayne and Johnson themselves.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everything equal AJ would be better. Its that simple. Only people who give Wayne a leg up are colts fans. And don’t give me any crap about no respect. The texans get far less respect and far less attention.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
Because they have never been Above Average, let alone good.
Every NFL commentator and their mom picked the Texans to have a breakout year and make the playoffs. Is that not respect? It is nobody’s fault but the Texans that they don’t get respect during the season (they don’t win consistently)
And for the record I am a huge Reggie fan. But… I’d take AJ. He’s younger, therefor will probably remain in his prime longer.
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Oct 21, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wat?
I said we get LESS respect from the colts. Reading comprehension ftl? This was in response complaining that AJ gets the nods over Wayne because the colts get no attention or respect.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read the whole statement. As well as the ones above...
Your statement: “Only people who give Wayne a leg up are colts fans. And don’t give me any crap about no respect. The texans get far less respect and far less attention.”
And I told you why the Texans “get far less respect and far less attention” I prolly could’ve done better in formatting my response.
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Oct 21, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is a moot point.
the issue isn’t why. but thanks for agreeing with Nolander lol
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 2:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I (as a colts fan)
had the texans taking 2nd in the South this year. I, along with everyone else, said the Texans would have a great year as long as Schaub could stay healthy. As for the Colts getting respect EVERYONE and their momma was talkin crazy talk about the Colts not being good this year because of all the change in the coaching. Marshall Faulk said the “window has been closed on the Colts.” That doesnt sound like respect to me. And as HiS and I stated the Texans were getting a lot of love at the begining of the season.
The way our defense is set up, it puts me in situations where I'm one-on-one in making tackles on running backs. When I go into it, I think I am going to win. It really doesn't matter the size, height, weight, whatever. I'm not afraid of putting my body in there." - Bob Sanders
by coltsfan723 on Oct 22, 2009 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is all true
I personally picked the Texans to finish 2nd in the South behind the Tits (looks like i fucked that up) with the Colts a close 3rd.
But the fact is that now the Colts are getting alot of respect, mostly peytan, but its still respect. People were saying the coaching change would hurt the Colts but now they are just saying that peytan cancels out the coaching change because he is so good.
The Colts definitely get respect, to think otherwise is just foolish.
by TexasHoosier on Oct 22, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont disagree
now because they are getting respect. But they get it by winning.. I do however disagree that the coaching change is cancelled out by Peytons Awesomness. Caldwell was the perfect person to replace dungy and the Defense is MUCH better with Coyer. so the coaching is good
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
by coltsfan723 on Oct 22, 2009 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eagles fan here - Couldn't possibly care any less about Houston or Indy (so in other words I'm unbiased)
Wayne is a great receiver, but I’m taking Andre Johnson every single time. Do people even watch football anymore? It’s all stats now. If you watch enough of these 2 guys, it’s pretty obvious Johnson is quite clearly one of the 2 best WR’s on the planet, certainly better than Wayne. There’s really no debate here.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 1:16 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
THANKS.
colt fans have their head so far up their ASSES they can’t recognize it. which is fine, but every time an unbiased fan chooses our guy, it shows that we aren’t being homers, we speak the truth. AJ is tops.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there are other biases besides homerism
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember reading rainbow?
don’t take my word for it! da da daaaaaaaaaaah!
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I use to keep this link in my sig
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
touche' sir!
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe base rate fallacy
is what we’re looking at here.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other biases... like logical thought, reason and not having your head up your ass?
I’m ALL for looking beyond the stats, but you have to seriously be out of your mind if you think Reggie is better or if you think ANY of their NFL peers (aside from Texans and Colts players) would take Wayne over AJ.
You’re talking like a meth head. Have you switched allegiances to the Titans??
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 21, 2009 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for someone talking about logical thought, reason and heads not up asses
I’d expect a better argument than a string of ad hominems
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If your premise wasn't SO INSANE
I might take time to do it the right way, because name-calling and ad hominem attacks are not really my thing (unless I’m talking about the Titans).
Wayne is a fantastic receiver. I take nothing away from him – but when you look at a piece of crap like David Carr plus a pretty good QB in Matt Schaub vs. Peyton Manning, who is in the discussion to be the best QB of this generation – I think all of that speaks for itself – and that’s just the beginning of the conversation.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 21, 2009 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the unbiased opinion.
What happened last Sunday?
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Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Something happened last Sunday? Oh, you mean the PHILLIES!!! Yeah, we’re up 3-1.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 21, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lmao, Nice
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Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm...
I’ll pick Option (C.)
All of the Above…
/What do you mean I cant have both?
//Gets pissed and slams the door
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Oct 21, 2009 1:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
49er fan here
I think Andre Johnson is better (he’s probably the best in the league right now).
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 21, 2009 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
preciate it.
good 2 know…. and we look forward to meeting up with you guys on sunday. here’s hoping for an injury-free game, on both sides.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do Niner fans think of Crabtree?
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Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a rookie
We’ll see what he brings to the table come Sunday.
What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
by chikmagnet_565 on Oct 23, 2009 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir.
Your vote counts.
Good luck to yall this Sunday.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
biggest point i can make...
is to look at the vote count.
39 people voted so far.
31 for AJ.
8 for RW.
and i GUARANTEE that all the votes for RW are fukkin Colt fans.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Instead of using basic statistics
use Advanced Statistics based on defenses they played and other variables. You can find them here at FootballOutsiders.Com
Last year it was clearly AJ who was better. This year Johnson isn’t even in the discussion.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
U R DUM....FAIL.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
so when a fan of another team picks AJ he’s awesome and proof that you all are right, but when they like FO and aren’t wholeheartedly pro-Johnson they are dumb, retarded, don’t watch football and FAIL.
hmm.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
If they base their opinion on statistics that make no sense. When they could open their eyes and see the truth every Sunday. Then they are retarded.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This not about stats.
This about the best receiver in the league.
Who would you take if you had the choice?
100 out of 100 non-colts Fans would take Andre Johnson. Period. The end.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last year I would take AJ
this year I would take Wayne.
I am from BucEm.Com. Don’t like or dislike either team.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were starting a franchise I would take AJ
because he is two years younger.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you take Wayne this year.
Because Schaub leads the league in TD passes? Would have to be some reason that doesn’t make sense.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because in advanced statistics both systems are taken into account.
Reggie Wayne has a DYAR of 189. Andre Johnson has a DYAR of 46.
Reggie Wayne has a DVOA of 24%. Andre Johnson has a DVOA of -4.2%.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take time to read those links
instead of spewing baseless arguments based on “feelings.”
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseless?
So watching all the games sunday isn’t enough base for an argument? I respect that you pick Wayne over AJ but do you watch any of the games?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I approach it
is that observation and subjective judgment is a supplement not a replacement from the objective record of events that stats give you. Look at the stats, know their blind spots and adjust as appropriate subjectively by what you saw watching the games.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't argue feelings.
This was set up as a thread to discuss who is better. Two people watching the same 2 players can come away with a different feeling of who is better. Statistics give us something tangible to argue. So yes…Baseless.
And Yes, I watch football. I have seen 2 Colts games this year and 1 Texans Game.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait...
you call that watching football?
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um
Johnson makes his average supporting cast better in many ways. Wayne’s supporting cast is some of the most talented and able players in the business. Is that in the FO site?
When did looking at stats become football? if you find this absurd and have an answer that involves you trying to explain something, pause. look at the question again and repeat it. when did a sport/activity/game become statistic based? Stats are the byproduct of hundreds upon hundreds of performance altering variables. If you look at football through a statistical lens, then you’re gonna miss what makes the game so great. it’s why the people who see greatness, recognize it without stats to ‘prove’ it.
The reason that NFL alum who broadcast games and talk about football pay so much more respect to AJ and Fitz etc. they don’t take anything away from wayne, but the respect for AJ comes from more than stats. There really is no argument here. How a player plays earns him respect. that’s why on a broad national scale with fewer biases than 2 teams’ blogs, Wayne is not in the top 2 receivers talks.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:07 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
he leads Manning by
2 freakin TD’s and he only took that 2 td lead cause the Colts were on a BYE this week…come back after sunday and see if you can say the same thing
The way our defense is set up, it puts me in situations where I'm one-on-one in making tackles on running backs. When I go into it, I think I am going to win. It really doesn't matter the size, height, weight, whatever. I'm not afraid of putting my body in there." - Bob Sanders
by coltsfan723 on Oct 22, 2009 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it bothers you that Schaub is beating Peiton in one stat.
And if Schaub is still ahead after this Sunday you would give me the Bye week excuse every week.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 22, 2009 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I wouldnt
because there wouldnt be BYE week to fall back on. And it doesnt bother me that Schaub is ahead of Manning in 1 stat, but you seem to keep falling back on it like its this HUGE deal that hes head of Manning by 2 Tds with Manning coming off a BYE week
Bob Sanders does not play Hide-and-Seek, He plays HIDE and PRAY-HE-DOES-NOT FIND-YOU!
by coltsfan723 on Oct 22, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well you are used to having the QB in that spot.
I am not, so forgive me.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 22, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well technically there is still the bye week to fall back on
although they will both play this week, The Schaub will have played 7 games while paytan will have only played 6. So yes, Colts fans will still be able to claim bye week if The Schaub has more TD’s after this week.
by TexasHoosier on Oct 22, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you sir.
I can’t teach a Colt fan to count, too much work.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 22, 2009 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you are retarded
maybe your helmet is blocking your vision on Sundays. Take it off and watch the league instead of believing advanced statistics.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the problem.
When you just watch a game and don’t take into account variables like the defense they are playing, how many times they are thrown the ball, circumstances, you are looking at it through a biased lens. Advanced Stats are objective.
Plus, this was a reply to the thread which attempted to used statistics to make an argument. The statistics he used do not take into account any sort of variable and are thus irrelevant to a conversation in a head to head match up in which it is impossible to compare ‘on-the-field.’
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude it is pointless
They won’t or aren’t capable of comprehending the advanced statistics.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but it only takes a few minutes to learn them.
However if they want to just have basic arguments that mean nothing, then so be it.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats what I'm saying
but you just get slobbered on by a few of the mouthbreathers dominating the conversation. Where is Jordann? He was reasonable.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Went to lunch.
And all hell broke loose LOL.
You can’t bash em because they base players performance on DVOA or whatever it is. I can learn it but im at work and i’ve never really been in depth with all that stuff. We need Rivers in here for that.
Most of us are basing our arguments to what we see every sunday. Yes we are homers. And yes some of our arguments are based on feelings. But advanced statistics or not, we see the results in the field. And most people are not gonna delve in to stats talk. It’s what they see. And clearly, most people see that AJ is better than Wayne. Wayne maybe more effective in his environment, but who wouldn’t be? Payton has the knack to make no name receivers into superstars. Reggie Wayne is not a no name receiver but he’s definitely benefiting from Payton.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and I can see
that I would take Fitz over Wayne ANY day.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm happy with this
I accept your explanation. (Oh and I either aced that midterm or failed it, depends how much BS the professor will accept)
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you all need to relax
Suddenly its a lets hate on the Colts fans thread when the 3 of us that are in here are only playing devils advocate to the popular opinion. I don’t think any of us would take Reggie over Johnson. We are just arguing that the debate may be closer than it appears. You would think we came in here spouting made up facts and numbers. We are only showing you what objective empirical evidence states. The only ones being unreasonable are those of you hating on Shake, Hoosier and me. Nothing we said has been outrageously biased, we are only making sound coherent arguments for Reggie. Not sure why it has become a bashfest, but this is a Texans blog so I guess I’ll just take my advanced statistics and go home.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You just said that
" I don’t think any of us would take Reggie over Johnson" so why in the hell are you even trying to argue it. So let’s see, Texans fans, 49ers fans, AZ fans, Jag fans, and Vikings fans all would take AJ in a heart beat over Wayne.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I told you
I’m just trying to play the opposition here and get someone to admit that yeah maybe it is closer than it appears. Apparently that isn’t going to happen.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's arguing for the sake of argument.
It’s not like he’s being an unreasonable titans fan you know?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh,
kind of like my wife.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or my dealer.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its andre johnson and its not even close
E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES!!!
by Joe_D on Oct 21, 2009 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
and add an eagles fan to that list
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Colts fan....
and this is the first i’ve heard of this debate. It’s nice that Reggie is considered in that conversation but the real debate is between AJ and Fitz. Reggie is certainly a top 5 receiver in the league and has the numbers to back it up, but based on pure talent he’s not the best in the league. I tend to lean toward Johnson as the best in the league with Fitz probably in second. I’m not sure there is a close 3rd.
by invisibulman on Oct 21, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I put Reggie at a close 3rd
but that’s what I’ve been saying. I’m just trying to play devils advocate with advanced stats and suddenly I’m unreasonable. The closest thing I’ve seen to an argument for AJ is “But Peyton Manning is really good!”
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no argument there...
Peyton Manning is really good. : )
by invisibulman on Oct 21, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saying that he has better numbers because he was in a better offense isn’t a good argument?
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a good argument
but if its your only argument…………… Then there isn’t much of a base for one to stand on is there?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think AJ is more explosive.
His speed and size make him a matchup nightmare. Reggie is probably more polished but i still take AJ in a walk. I’d also throw Hines Ward out there as one of the best WRs in the league just because there are so many facets to his game. Probably not #1 anymore, but there is something to be said for doing the little things.
by invisibulman on Oct 21, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
i would rank Hines above Reggie as well, because he’s a BEAST in the blocking game. and his passion for the game is what i love about him. he’s a fucking linebacker trapped in a reciever’s body.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather have
Moss over Wayne as well.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If AJ
had been with Brady all these years, he would be drawing more comparisons to Jerry Rice. But if you have to play for baby mittens its hard to put up numbers.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
that's the main point
and I guess they don’t understand b/c they have been blessed with a great QB for many years. Again, put Wayne with Mittens and he probably would have been cut from teh league after a couple of years. Yes Colts fans – it was that bad.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I'm asking for is some clear cut evidence that AJ is better
Nothing here has been provided he is better than Reggie than everyone’s opinion. Take opinions out of it and show me some stats.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Stats...?
AJ is 3 inches taller, 25 lbs heavier and runs the 40 yard dash a few tenths faster. Those are all stats, but stats aren’t everything. Based on the stats alone, Reggie has been the more productive WR for a longer period of time. However, there is no absolutely objective measure to reach the conclusion of this argument. The end result is that I THINK Johnson creates bigger problems for defenses than Reggie Wayne does, threfore I hold him to be the most talented WR in the league.
by invisibulman on Oct 21, 2009 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
clear cut evidence
is AJ upending a linebacker and two others on his way to the endzone. You can Youtube it if you’d like for a visual. Then come back and tell me he is not the best.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats like arguing that Brady is better because he has won and gone to like 5X more SBs then Manning. Obviously a stupid argument.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to be picky
But Gerald Hayes stupidly lunched himself backwards at Johnson. Johnson leaned forward, and it almost looked like Hayes landed on top of Johnson, then slid off. But plowing his way into the endzone was great, unfortunately I was right there to see it in disbelief.
Hey, hey, hey hey hey, watch the language, ok? I have a family.
Revenge of the Birds
by Andrew602 on Oct 21, 2009 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not everything is about stats.
Try watching the games, not just highlights.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You like stats
ok here we go.
Reggie Wayne catches a TD pass every 8 receptions. 12.5%
Jacoby Jones catches a TD pass 37% of the time.
So statistically, empirically, JJ is a better receiver. Don’t bring all that BS about Reggie ACTUALLY being a better receiver. JJ is better statistically, so that proves it.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
that's so outrageous
that i just snorted water all over my keyboard. truly good job on giving this ‘arguement/debate’ another perspective.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i compare this arguement....
to watching the news on FOX, vs the news on any other station. if you are playing devils’ advocate, that’s one thing. but some of the posters here actually do BELIEVE that your guy is better. as you can see, EVERYONE sees that AJ is clearly better. not just texan fans, but u can do a roll call for all the teams in here today, and they ALL say the same thing.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 1:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is like having an argument with a 5 year old. The only decent argument they have is that FO ranks AJ 37th right now. Of course they also said it ranked him 1st last year. All they then do is complain that the colts get no respect. Their arguments are shallow and pedantic. And they obviously have sand in their vaginas. So there. NANANANNANANA I CAN’T HEAR YOU.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was 1st last year
and nowhere in the top 10 for the rest of his career. Stats are stats.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Yards and TDs are stats. Complicated math formulas based on math are not stats.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
statistics
1. (used with a sing. verb) The mathematics of the collection, organization, and interpretation of numerical data, especially the analysis of population characteristics by inference from sampling.
2. (used with a pl. verb) Numerical data.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would me calling them raw stats vs doctored stats make you feel better?
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think that bias against Andre Johnson is built into FO's stats for some unnamed reason?
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet I could compile enough stats,
and sort them in a way that would have Wayne 37th and AJ top 2. Just don’t have that kind of time.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you honestly believe its a conspiracy
that Johnson is ranked so low and Wayne so high?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think Football Outsiders
is doctoring stats to make Reggie Wayne a superior receiver and downgrade Andre Johnson?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doctored was probably a poor choice of words. Raw vs formula based? Either way I’m not going to put that much faith in just that a formula. Do I have to remind you how well that works for the BCS?
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
umm the BCS is a ugly marriage of subjective opinion
and objective stats.
Remember the heavy weight that human polls carry in it.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well if you want Yards and TDs
Reggie wins in that one too.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jacoby Jones is better
look up at my response earlier.
Stats can be whatever you want them to be.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fallacy in that logic
Is the fallacy of the small sample size.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 22, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait
you sayin’ Reggie is better than JJ?
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is that possible?!?!?
The stats CLEARLY indicate JJ is better!!
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 22, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm saying that
You can’t compare the two unless you have a large enough sample size. Which you don’t in this situation.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 22, 2009 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 games isn’t a big enough sample size either.
by nolander on Oct 22, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yes
That’s what I said.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 23, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care what you say
JJ is far better.
He’s a future first ballot HOF’er!
Dude’s gonna dance his way in, if the whole holdin’ on to the ball thing doesn’t work out.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats
can be made to prove whatever you want to prove.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and opinons can't?
at least with stats you have to explain what you are doing to get your results so people can look at your methods and find out how you are twisting them.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
You can’t argue feelings. Yall have a nice day, but I will not waste my time any longer trying to convince someone that what they see isn’t always an exact science.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You see that stats too.
And stats are not always an exact science. The stats in FO is not everything. It shows their effectiveness as a receiver but that’s it. It doesn’t show who’s a better football player.
And that is where you fail kind sir.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, The poster used stats to make his point.
When I go into advanced stats that become a detriment to your arguments, they are not welcomed. Second, you can’t argue who is a better football player without stats, it simply becomes feelings and opinions. Do you have a wife? Have you ever tried arguing with her feelings? What happens? The same thing that happens here. You get defensive, revert to name calling “U R DUM”, and try to justify why the facts don’t matter.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you talking to?
I just want to make sure before I put you in your place.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone who has
said “stats don’t matter watch a football game”
Including you.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
....waiting....
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
You said you gave up. Are you one of those people that always has to have the last word ? I bet whoever came up with those stats wouldn’t even pick Wayne over Ocho Cero.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok. so forget stats.
forget that this post started with a statistical reference point. are you really going to say you want the starting WR on your team. FOR ONE SINGLE YEAR OF PLAY, be Wayne or AJ or who? argue all you want the importance of stats, there is more to it than that. if you are not willing to debate that last point, then just don’t answer at all
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jordan take it easy on the guy..
he’s only watched 3 games of football this year so I guess it’s not really all his fault. All the game day battles take place on a computer and they determine the actual winners and best players regardless of what they actually do in REAL LIFE.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hah, I have watched far more than 3 games of football this year.
I was referring to how many times I have seen Wayne and AJ play.
I can appreciate talent just as much as the next guy. However, I just want you guys to make a valid argument instead of “HAVE YOU SEEN A GAME THIS YEAR?” Saying because you think so doesn’t mean crap. Last year AJ had the better season, this year Wayne is.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's right you've watched
2 colts games so you are the authority.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was invited here to give my opinion.
So anyone who hasn’t watched more than 6 colts or 6 texans games can’t throw out an opinion?
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, your opinion counts.
I’ll get back to you in a minute.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not based on 2 colts games and 1 Texans game.
And obviously you are the .0001% that thinks Wayne is better so at this point no, I don’t think you’re qualified to throw out an opinion.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do realize
that he said he had seen 2 Colts games and 1 Texans game, and that he’s neither a Colts nor a Texans fan. Where I come from, I take that to mean that he watches a lot of football, but not necessarily a lot of Colts or Texans games.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 21, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for ex....
Stats
can be made to prove whatever you want to prove.
65% of the country thought Bush was SHIT.
however according to Fox…
35% of the country was very pleased with the job Bush did.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
but other than the court of public opinion what evidence is there. 90% of football fans will tell you Joe Namath was an amazing QB when in fact he was about average in every facet of the game. He just got a lot of press for his accomplishments in the ’69 SB.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a colts fan
Complaining about someone getting attention because the won super bowls.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everyone? what about the "retarded" Bucs fan?
or do only people who agree with you count?
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His team is 0-6
I’m pretty sure he is drunk off his ass right now.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the Eagles fans that are coming off a loss to the RAIDERS are of sound judgment?
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe not but
they are smart enough to realize AJ is better
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has the Phillies at least.
Tampa has nothing.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So their team losing to the Raiders
makes them unreasonable about something that’s not related to the discussion at hand? I had respect for you but you just had to fuck it all up.
Go lick Paytun Manung’s forehead.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was a joke, the exact same thing you said about the Bucs fan
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still dont retract my statement.
You should know better than to resort to that.
I love that some of the Colt fans here are actually arguing the point with supporting evidence to back it up. But responding to a statement like that, doesn’t do anything to further the argument.
Dont get mad at me now CFHTim. You know I still love ya lol
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops, not same as you said same as CHFTIm did
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Prob
At some point I just got angry, because I clicked the links that were supposed to explain those stats. Sweet Jesus thats complicated, so he must be pretty intelligent to follow all that stuff. And his one Texan game watched must have been the Jets game, thats only way you could think Wayne is better.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can he cover that
much ground (forehead) in one day?
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here ya go.
Have a nice day.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I figured it out
I understand now. Its so simple. I get why Colts fans are so hung up on stats and only stats. Its Manning vs Brady, and the mentality of that argument has been brought over to this one.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Brady!
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is A Douche.
A very very talented attractive douche. I mean fugly ass mofo… oh damnit
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was just being an
ass
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I know :). I just couldn’t leave it unsaid.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Colts are the Atlanta Braves of the NFL
Loaded with talent, but always a dissapointment in the playoffs.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its those damn Chargers
I swear!
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
better than Braves than the Nationals
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
*better the Braves than the Nationals
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you implying that the Texans are the Nationals?
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as much as the Colts are the Braves
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heard you guys were looking for an outside opinion.
I’m a Giants fan, and all I gotta say is if I were drafting a team today…Andre Johnson gets serious consideration for a first round pick. Reggie Wayne does not.
Andre Johnson is probably the best WR in football, I’d love to see what he could do if he was in Peyton Mannings offense (no offense to the HOU fans or anything.)
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 21, 2009 2:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course you do.
He agrees with you.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And used 0 numbers to back it up.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
since you guys like stats... here is one for you.
58 votes.
AJ – 53.
RW – 11.
nuff’ said.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't have to use numbers
he’s probably watched more than 3 games this year.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers are numbers.
Watch him play football. That should tell you everything you need to know.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 21, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some people overlook the simple things.
thanks for stopping by.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly think...
It makes a bit of difference who Peyton throws the ball to?
Andre Johnson is the best player on the Texans, if they lost him, they’d be in trouble.
Peyton Manning is the best player in football, if he lost Reggie Wayne, the next guy on the depth chart would have very similar numbers.
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 21, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't need numbers.
It is sooo obvious.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I respect your opinion.
Dont start being all douchy on me because I appreciate his opinion. If we’re playing the douchebag asshole game. trust me. Im better than you. But im actually trying to debate the issue at hand. Im not calling you a drunk retarded bucs fan or anything. Im taking what you’re saying into consideration and working it in with the debate at hand.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys, Rams fan here...
…I have to go with Andre Johnson. Led the league in receiving yards last year I believe, and for Christ’s sake Matt Schaub is NOT Peyton Manning. This one is kind of obvious to me. There’s no way Johnson’s numbers wouldn’t be astronomic (even though they already are) if he had Peyton at QB. No way. Also, Johnson is on my fantasy team. :D
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
by TrojanRam on Oct 21, 2009 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Thanks TrojanRam!
but your opinion probably doesn’t count to Colts fans because you’re a Rams fan. That was their arguement against an Eagles fan.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well put it this way:
If the Rams aren’t playing, I’d rather watch Andre Johnson than anyone not named Adrian Peterson. If that’s their argument, then they’re just that enamored with their own player. I think the statistics, with Sage Rosenfels at quarterback last year (ie no consistency) at times, and Schaub certainly not at the level of a Peyton Manning, demonstrate that Johnson is the better player. I think we’re all privileged to see him play.
That being said, I think this is all moot. To borrow what 3k from the TurfShowTimes website said in a similar argument between Adrian Peterson and Steven Jackson, it’s like asking someone: “Would you rather have 1,000,000 dollars, or 999,999 dollars?” You can’t really go wrong either way.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
by TrojanRam on Oct 21, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually....
one makes you a millionare…
one doesnt.
i think i’d rather the mil.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what if it put you in a higher tax bracket?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought they were adjusting the salary cap? lol
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lmao, I'd rather take Johnson too...
…but I can scrap for an extra dollar somewhere. There’s probably one on the floor.
"I was just letting the shots fly. You know, I don't leave any bullets in the chamber."
"Everything negative- pressure, challenges- is all an opportunity for me to rise."
-Kobe Bryant
A mantra for all athletes.
by TrojanRam on Oct 21, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually?
that extra dollar can be found on Peiy- tan’s forehead.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love
all the different spellings you have for Paytune Manengs name lol
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pei-ton "Asian" Manning
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PEIGHTON M’ANNIN
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
These STATS people are pissing me the fuck off.
Watch the football games dammit.
With apologies to Rivers of course.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 2:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Easy there. Don't mess up your beautiful locks.
It is possible to appreciate subjective statistical analysis, love football, and still think that – right now – AJ is better than Wayne.
I know I do.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 21, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im trying not to sir.
Im trying not to.
And I am actually trying to understand these stats.
But stats are not everything.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watch football from noon til the end of the Sunday night game every Sunday
plus MNF and even watched the Thursday night games off online streams last year.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My statement
was directed to the bucs fan from earlier.
He’s watched 2 colts games and one texans game.
I think it was you or AJ forAZ that admitted to choosing AJ over Wayne.
If you would solely base everything on Advanced Statistics from FO, you would chose
37 other receivers over AJ.
And we all know that no sane man that watches football and loves the game would do that.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take the 6 weeks of results from those 36 WRs
but obviously those results had a good amount to do with a small sample and the effect of teammates.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But as we stand right now.
Fuck the career stats. DVOA or DYAR.
Who would you take right now as your #1 Receiver.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erin Andrews
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I voted Wayne in the poll
but I think the evidence is such that it’s totally personal subjective opinion of who you want. As I, and several others said before, the objective measures support Wayne, but there are valid reasons to subjectively raise Johnson up and Wayne down. It’s just a matter of how far you think it should be raised/lowered.
I don’t deny that AJ is the more gifted athlete, but I think Wayne’s hands, route running and grasp of a complex offense let him make up for being a very good, but not freak athlete.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very well put
I’m glad you did it, because I was sure how to voice these very same sentiments. Go Iowa!
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bet you won't repeat that last part in a week.
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well for that one week no
but we suck and anyone that isn’t Ohio State or Purdue is good in my book.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I think it's awesome that Andre gets a lot of love from other teams fans
And I think it’s amazing that this thread has like 50 gajillion responses in five hours.
And I’m a Texans fan. And I would probably felch Andre Johnson.
But… that doesn’t mean that the FO stats are wrong.
First off, we can’t easily define what the best wide receiver would look like. In fact, FO has two different stats to track quality, DYAR and DVOA. Furthermore the whole NFL season is about a small sample size. You only have sixteen games to rack up your stats as opposed to 162 in baseball. If you play shitty defenses like the Titans, the Raiders or the Rams most of the time, you’re going to have better numbers than if you’re playing against the top defenses in the league most of the time.
Traditional stats count a yard gained against the worst defense in the league as equal to a yard gained against the best defense in the league. That’s a huge problem. Also, traditional stats count Mark Sanchez’s three touchdowns in the first game of the season the same as in the last game of the season. That’s also a problem, since a team could be playing well in October and crappy in November.
I think the FO guys would admit that their stats are still not 100% accurate (perhaps Rivers will come by and do that, since he is affiliated with FO). But they are certainly better than traditional stats and whatever opinions people come up with when they’re watching games on the weekend.
Having prefaced all that, people are reading too much into Dre’s current ranking at FO. We really can’t assess who is better until the end of the season. Even the FO website points out that, due to small sample size, recent games are only being weighted at 60%. Remember that Andre didn’t get a ton of balls thrown his way in the NY, JAC or OAK games, so that’s going to hurt him in the early part of the season.
Assuming Andre stays healthy, there is no way in which he is going to be ranked that low come December.
Now. Having said all that, if the question who is a better receiver today, I’m still going to go with AJ because last year, which is the most recent full season for which we have data, AJ was better. If you go back a few years, that may not be the case.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 21, 2009 2:48 PM CDT reply actions 7 recs
él es un hombre muy inteligente.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for a legitimate argument against the FO Stats.
First sound reasoning I have heard on here. Your right, it’s a very small sample size thus far. However 49 DYAR is pretty low to this point. Meaning, he is underproducing this season. It has nothing to do with who is better or not, but who to this point has played like it.
It means that the average WR in the league and on the team can come in and produce slightly under what AJ is doing. This can change with a couple of good games. There is no quesiton that AJ was the elite WR in the NFL last year.
"I have come that you may have life, and life to the max"
by UNFNOLE on Oct 21, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for telling us that AJ is underproducing this year
because by watching the games I would have thought otherwise. Thank God for stats!
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
He underproduced
in the one Texan game he watched.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HOU vs NY and OAK
are basically 2 games to remove from the season for AJ. Underproducing? no kidding. Schaub was a human speed bag vs the Jets and Koobs was cleaning up his own urine vs. the Raiders every time he looked at Scrabble covering AJ.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Da Raiders
sucked so bad, we didn’t pass to him the entire second half.
So he suffers for that, since that game probably counts 100%.
Stats can be made to prove whatever you want.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Steelers Fan here
no contest, I’d take AJ in a minute over any WR in the NFL. In Indy, Peyton can change the game on a dime, not any of the WRs. AJ can take over a game.
PS stats are for losers, and “formulas” …….right, even worse.
by Farmer Fran on Oct 21, 2009 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
yup.
love how everyone is coming by… can’t recall ever seeing this many responses from the different teams on one single blog ever.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know.
You sure know how to stir the pot Chris.
Im going out for another smoke break.
Im trying to no go Southwest on everyone’s asses lol
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its what i do! lol
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good topic
and why the hell is everyone on the site and not working today???
by Farmer Fran on Oct 21, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm chalking it up to the economy
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's work?
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giants fan here
I’m also a University of Miami fan, so I love both of these guys. On a purely subjective level, I think Andre Johnson is the more physically gifted receiver, and if I were selecting players in a draft, I’d take Johnson over Wayne. I think most NFL coaches, GMs, and scouts would agree.
On the stats debate, I think some of the Texans fans here are being a little closed-minded about it, but the people citing the stats are being a little dishonest. From the FO website:
“# We cannot yet fully separate the performance of a receiver from the performance of his quarterback. Be aware that one will affect the other.
- These statistics measure only passes thrown to a receiver, not performance on plays when he is not thrown the ball, such as blocking and drawing double teams."
Football stats are a very, very different beast from baseball stats. Football isn’t a glorified one-on-one sport the way baseball is – the actions of all 22 men on the field affect the outcome of every play, and until they figure out a way to account for how much an all-pro left tackle impacts a wide receivers numbers vs. a scrub left tackle (for just one example), they’ll have to be taken with a grain of salt.
That said, just because they aren’t 100% accurate doesn’t mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. They are the most objective measure we have, and they are a useful tool. For everyone who says stat people “don’t watch the games” – I’m wondering, do you watch every single play of every single football game every week? And do you know how to objectively tell how much of a difference it makes to play against the Broncos defense vs. the Rams defense?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 21, 2009 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
ugh
formatting fail – sorry, that’s not supposed to be indented with the 1, it’s just a second bullet point
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 21, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
still...
format errors and all, you make a valid point.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotta disagree with you
there is a startling over reliance on statistics. people need to quite reading and watch more tv.
by Farmer Fran on Oct 21, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd!
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah a lot of us are being close-minded about it.
But sometimes you just dont need stats to prove who’s a better player?
Im not sure who was it but I think it was Reggie White. When he started playing sacks weren’t stats, but we all knew he wasn’t a dominant player?
Same applies for Mario right now. We dont see his sack numbers rising but we all know that Mario is clearly a dominant force.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm open to stats
But there should be no debate. Unless the Card fans want to argue Fitz’s case for best reciever in the league. But Wayne…laughable.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFrFz7BWZ6I
What more proof do you need?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFrFz7BWZ6I
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
how do they compensate for that on computers?
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 21, 2009 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, PUT THAT SH*T IN YOUR STATS AND SMOKE IT.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i get goosebumps watching that shit!
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. I forgot about that play.
I can’t believe we’re still arguing about who’s better.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you remember
Matt Stevens, and Stacey Mack ? But forget about that play. You have a strange memory my friend.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this one is better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccGFLRMPwUo&feature=related
But they are both Awesome for different reasons.
by distant_texans_fan on Oct 24, 2009 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andre Johnson.
Wayne is great but Johnson is slightly better. He’s stronger, more physically imposing and has done it with less around him.
Jacksonville Jaguars. It's what I do.
by JvilleJag2 on Oct 21, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
307 and Counting.
This is started to look like a game thread LOL
People need to Rec’d this more.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
<3
To all you colts fans. Agree to disagree. At least there is one thing we can all agree to, and thats that Cortland Finnegan is a douche.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
"Cortland Finnegan is a douche."
amen
Luck is probability taken personally, clutch is probability attributed to individuals.
by shake n bake on Oct 21, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Cortland Finnegan
I sure would love to eat a bowl of Lucky Charms right about now.
by Jordann on Oct 21, 2009 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
lmao.....
i love how you got the pic of dude where he’s looking down and smiling! this pic is fukkin awesome hahahahaha
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And its even a fruity lookin' smile.
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Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I second this notion
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back to Stats
Since all of you guys from Colts land like stats so much here are some pretty simple ones for you. Note I will only not try to correct for all of the crap that goes into FO numbers as because of sample size they are meaningless (insignificant in statistical terms)
So lets looks at career numbers that actually have some statistical significants.
I’ll give the advangage to Andre overall but let me say I consider TD/G a very important number and that goes to RW.
You can't fix Dumb
by Texans-Brocos on Oct 21, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Did you just go to Excel?
We have just gone to a whole new level in this debate lol.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it can't be done in Excel it can't be done
I think excel could give a bj with a little programming in VB
You can't fix Dumb
by Texans-Brocos on Oct 21, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
excel and paint!
my two favorite programs! call me old school i dont care! haha!
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I use Excel everyday
and am learning to use paint as well.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well if you're going to do that we have to include career FO stats
or cut these stats here into merely this year. You’re comparing apples and oranges here. Pick one, career or single season. Reggie wins in career FO stats. AJ wins in career basic stats. Its a good argument argument. That’s what I’m trying to say. Its not so cut and dry as “just watch the games!!!!1111”
Manning/Brady is the same way. Its a good time had by all.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you mean to ask
The Patriots have how many rings? I think you would admit Peyton didn’t win the SB in 2006 singlehandedly, that in fact it was Rhodes and Addai, correct? So why is it that Brady won 3 all by himself?
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Sanders won that super bowl.
And Brady will be remembered over Pei-tun years from now.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea...
Because everyone has forgotten all about Dan Marino…
"With the game on the line. I want the ball in my hands."
-E
by tito (eight and oh) on Oct 23, 2009 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who ?
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by CFHTim on Oct 23, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Marino
is the guy that gave Mr. Mittens his offical name that’s why he’s soooo important. That’s what I remember about Dan Marino. Oh yeah, and for his role in Ace Ventura pet detective where he played the role of a QB for the Dolphins – good flick.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Oct 23, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Whats with all the gum Ace?
Thats none of your damn business and I’d thank you to stay out of my personal affairs.
Your a weird guy Ace.
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by CFHTim on Oct 23, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
QBs lead their team to victory. When it matters most Brady has been better.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many rings does Andre Johnson have?
Not as many as Reggie Wayne. AMIRIGHT… By your reasoning Reggie is the better player
Don’t be a tool and resort to illogical reasoning. Please!
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Oct 21, 2009 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To reiterate my comment from above. I think both are great
If I had to pick I’d take Johnson. He is younger and therefore will be in his prime, hypothetically, for a longer time from this point forward…
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Oct 21, 2009 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who gives an F if you have a ring or not
lets frame this in the perspective of last years superbowl.
How is Fitz’s 2 TDs made any better or worse by whether or not that scrub safety Francisco and DRC could defend Santonio Holmes in the corner of the end-zone? My opinion of Santonio Holmes went up that day, but Fitz is still one of the best WRs in football, ring or no.
"Manning.... lobbs it! Burress, alone! TOUCHDOOOWN NEW YORK!"
by mahmoodzaky on Oct 21, 2009 11:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reggie is a great player on a good team.
Andre Johnson is a great player on what has been a below average team.
That is like saying that Antonio Smith is a better DE than Mario Williams.
by distant_texans_fan on Oct 24, 2009 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to go by FO AJ only has played one year on a good offense, and he was number one in the league.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
stats are empirical, perfect evidence
unless they don’t support your opinion.
got it.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As you can see in this scientific chart, AJ clearly beats both Wayne and Finnegan, who comes in at "below douche". This should end all debate.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 21, 2009 5:29 PM CDT reply actions 20 recs
Can someone please close the thread? This argument is OVER.
by nolander on Oct 21, 2009 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how? lol...
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats the funniest thing I've seen all day
Rec’d x 100 if I could.
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh oh can I do the caption?
John Madden doing a vagisil commercial – take 2.
by Farmer Fran on Oct 21, 2009 7:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Holy shit.
You win, sir. Well played.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 22, 2009 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you. I try and rely only on scientific evidence like the chart above when making up my impartial and nonpartisan mind.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 22, 2009 7:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I agree. Rec'd.
Good job on the charts. Done by a true professional.
by Jordann on Oct 22, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I only use the best evidence.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 22, 2009 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats artwork
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Flavour of the Day is Turf. - Courtesy of the Jacksonville Jaguars
Keeper of the "That's what she said"
by TheTealDeal on Oct 25, 2009 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beautiful
Note to self: Insert something witty here.
by bigfatdrunk on Oct 27, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH... MY... DAYUM.
that is the prettiest shittiest graph i have ever seen.
fukkin awesome.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 21, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who Wins Andre or Reggie? Andre.
One reason is if you ask me which one scares me, a Jaguars fan, the most, Its Andre. When talking about the colts, the first threat is Peyton, with the Texans this year, its always going to be Andre.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Flavour of the Day is Turf. - Courtesy of the Jacksonville Jaguars
Keeper of the "That's what she said"
by TheTealDeal on Oct 21, 2009 6:24 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
it seems i was late to the party, o well
AJ for the win. And whoeer wins the mortal Kombat, (Between Larry and Reggie) is 2nd.
"HULU: An evil plot to destroy the world. Enjoy"
The Flavour of the Day is Turf. - Courtesy of the Jacksonville Jaguars
Keeper of the "That's what she said"
by TheTealDeal on Oct 25, 2009 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals fan here
In the case between Andre and Reggie. I’ll have to take Andre. I won’t even use stats just because they can be misleading. Depending on if the team rushes more, passes more, is having a bad season, good season, a crapy QB, a good QB, a good OL, bad OL, etc etc. Andre has the hands, speed, power, and athletic ability. That’s what I gather just from watching games.
However, watching Larry Fitzgerald play all the time, I’d have to go with Fitz as my number one. I’m sure you guys saw that coming. You could go with Fitz or AJ and not go wrong though.
Hey, hey, hey hey hey, watch the language, ok? I have a family.
Revenge of the Birds
by Andrew602 on Oct 21, 2009 6:30 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
That would be a real debate.
And both are classy guys as well.
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Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 21, 2009 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, really? There are this many posts in this thread?
Peyton Manning.
David Carr.
The end.
If you think Reggie Wayne is better, you are a fucking retarded, goat-raping dipshit, and I’m surprised you can even operate a computer.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 21, 2009 7:17 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Well you guys have to toot your horn about something...
Lord knows your team never won shit.
Dun nuh nuh nuhhhh!!!! Super Mathis
by hoosier in sodak on Oct 21, 2009 8:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Right back at you
Lord knows you’ve been spoiled to the point where anything below 10 wins is a sad sad year. Probably can’t remember the time Ron Dayne single handedly fist fucked some Colt Ass. (go ahead. bring up the win-loss record. doesnt change the statistic of ’Times Raped by Ron Dayne")
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
finally done reading this thing
i pulled a chris white after reading some colt fans arguments…i laughed to hard…
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Oct 21, 2009 8:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kinda bummed about this thread
I really liked Andre until today. Probably my favorite non-Colt player because of the way he just puts his head down and plays the game. You all have deterred me from that. It’s ok to disagree, but the approach some of you took, gonna have to think of you like the Titans fans now. Its unfortunate, I’m sure some of you are good guys, but your approach to differing opinions was disappointing.
Indianapolis Colts, taking focus away from my DBacks every Sunday.
by AJforAZ on Oct 21, 2009 9:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What does a bunch of Homers like us
Have to do with if you like AJ or not? I think really AJ and Fitz have to be the two greatest examples of guys who are absolute pros, and great people too.
You can't fix Dumb
by Texans-Brocos on Oct 21, 2009 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
RLY?
Look, I’m more or less on your side with respect to the value of FO and quality statistical analysis.
But if you start to dislike a player like Johnson only because of comments from random internet guys then maybe you should stay away from the internet for a while.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 22, 2009 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
seriously, you are trolling
were you expecting a buncha gap toothed, peeing in their red neck hot tub, sister molestin dumbasses? you offer an opinion – you get a few back. Actually I thought the comments were generally hilarious and open minded. So lighten up Chatty Kathy.
by Farmer Fran on Oct 22, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to not make your grade your Sir-ship
Andre just became a worse player and a person because of how you feel about his fans. or something.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
intriguing
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Oct 21, 2009 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 6 recs
You know how when you're tired and or drunk, everything becomes funny?
you know how when you and a friend find something hilarious and every time you look at it, it cracks you up, then you stop, but see it again and start laughing? i just laughed mega-hard at this thing for at least 2 minutes straight. my face hurts and im crying into my shirt. something about the faces just about made me crap my pants. thank you sir. thank you so much.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 3:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lions fan
Andre Johnson is hands down not even close… PM is just a insane QB and could make me even look like a 1/2 way desent WR
now if it was CJ or AJ… well then much closer….. would still have to say AJ but only b/c he older and has a better QB atm
Just Remember matt... what would Daunte do??
by det32 on Oct 21, 2009 10:31 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Giant fan
Andre Johnson has had a joke of a supporting cast for many years. RW has benefitted from double coverage on MH for years, and now benefits from having playmakers all over the field. Kevin Walter, Jacoby Jones, Andre Davis, and Owen Daniels < Dallas Clark, Gonzalez, Garcon, Collie. Slaton < Addai, Brown. Schaub < Peyton, durf. AJ has been a dominant receiver in an offense that features playmakers way inferior to Colts players (with the exception of Owen Daniels, who is a great TE although not as good as Dallas Clark) and a QB nowhere close to the level of Peyton Manning. Reggie Wayne has been dominant but is nowhere near the athlete or receiver that AJ is. If Wayne was in AJ’s position, I do not think he could produce close to the level he currently does on the Colts. If AJ and RW swapped teams tomorrow, would the Colts offense not instantly become a more talented and physical unit, while the Texans offense was downgraded? I think thats a given. If tomorrow the other 30 NFL teams were allowed to choose between AJ or Reggie Wayne, i think almost all would choose AJ. I know I’d want him on the Giants over Wayne.
That said, I’d choose Calvin Johnson over both, and Larry Fitz over all.
"Manning.... lobbs it! Burress, alone! TOUCHDOOOWN NEW YORK!"
by mahmoodzaky on Oct 21, 2009 11:17 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
One other thing for all you FO skeptics
Specifically my fellow Texans fans. Head over there and check out their rankings and qb’s and defensive lines. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised what kind of props FO gives our boys.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 22, 2009 1:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
this thread is fucking awesome.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 22, 2009 8:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a side note
As to how much a QB helps a WR
With Carr as QB
AJ YPG by year
2003 60
2004 71.4
2005 52.9
2006 71.7
With Schaub
2007 94.6
2008 98.4
2009 95.3 YTD
Best year for RW was 94.4
Average with Manning 66
You can't fix Dumb
by Texans-Brocos on Oct 22, 2009 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
na dude AJforAZ already told us you can’t use the QB throwing to him as an excuse. Of course I would say that means the number of times targeted shouldn’t affect anything either, but I’m pretty sure thats factored heavily into the FO numbers.
by nolander on Oct 22, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is entertaining
Who’s better arguments in a sport that is not 1 on 1 (or baseball, which is basically 1 on 1) always devolve into stat throwing, name calling, and other such hilarity.
Awesome graphs/comics friends.
Oh,
F the BESFs
The strong do what they have to do; the weak accept what they have to accept
by Riott on Oct 22, 2009 11:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When something is as patently ridiculous as this
…I resort to name-calling. This thread literally should have lasted one post, but – 400.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 22, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
BRB Gods, can you close this thread?
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by chrisd21 on Oct 22, 2009 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEVER!! ONWARD TO 500!!!
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 22, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
commenting in epic thread
Really, there’s no contest.
by cubic on Oct 22, 2009 3:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
To put the strictly statistical argument to bed.
Everybody knows that the Texas Tech QB ALWAYS puts up fabulous stats. Does that make him the best QB in the nation, HELL NO!! To argue for AJ or RW based solely on stats is ridiculous. In order to evaluate players fully, you must look at alot more than just stats. Physical abilites, awareness, blocking, and many other factors go into determining who is best.
Personally I feel that it is AJ but i know that is partially due to my Battle Red Goggles. On this thread alone i have seen Jags fans, Rams fans, Eagles fans, Giants fans, Steelers fans, and even a Colts fan say that AJ is better. AJ is bigger, stronger, younger, and possibly faster than RW. RW runs better routes IMO and might have better hands. Both can make the highlight reel catch and both can change the game on one play.
by TexasHoosier on Oct 22, 2009 5:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As I have said elsewhere
I love AJ and think he’s awesome.
But you shouldn’t make the mistake of thinking that stats without context mean anything. That’s the thing about FO stats – they try to put stats in context so that you can make accurate comparisons. It’s not easy and the FO guys admit that right up front.
But I will take the FO stats over traditional stats every day of the week.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 23, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that stats matter
I was just trying to make the point that stats have their flaws, even if they are the FO stats. FO stats cant show the value of catching a pass over the middle, flipping a LB and then bowling through 2 more defenders to reach the end zone (see AJ, week 5 vs. Arizona).
Yes, FO puts stats into context but as has been said earlier on this thread, any stats that rate AJ as the 37th best WR in the league are hard to have full faith in.
by TexasHoosier on Oct 23, 2009 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there
a thread Hall of Fame?
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 22, 2009 9:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Part of Me
Wants to close this thread, but a bigger part of me wants to let it ride.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Oct 22, 2009 10:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let it ride
We might set a record of some sort
by TexasHoosier on Oct 22, 2009 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
please dear lord Tim,
let the boys play! if it wasn’t for incessant bickering, we wouldn’t have gotten these bomb ass drawings.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 23, 2009 4:03 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
the graph and the smug painting pretty much make the thread.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Oct 23, 2009 6:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
USA! USA! USA!
Onward to 500!
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 23, 2009 8:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well now the real conversation begins....
comparing Johnson to Fitz is like comparing a Ferrarri to a Lamborghini. it just depends on your preference. both are excellent route runners, both have great hands. however, the one area that AJ excels over Fitz is run blocking, and the slant route. Fitz runs a lot of vertical routes (streak, fade) and while AJ runs those as well, he also runs a lot of slants, digs, and double moves. having said that, im curious as to the reasoning that Card fans have why Fitz is better.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can't edit the poll...
sorry card fans.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't know that....
A lambo or a Ferrari can run routes.
by Jordann on Oct 23, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're virtually equal receivers
There’s not a lot of areas where one out does the other. I could argue that Fitz has great doubles moves too. He usually owns cornerbacks when lining up to the outside. See his third touchdown against Philly in the playoffs. He’s probably the best at catching the goal line fade also. Fitz has great hops too. I’d only take Fitz over AJ because he’s on our team. I’m sure if we switched them around you’d get the same results.
Hey, hey, hey hey hey, watch the language, ok? I have a family.
Revenge of the Birds
by Andrew602 on Oct 23, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well said Andrew
There really are no winners/losers in the AJ vs. Fitz debate.
by Shake on Oct 23, 2009 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJ vs. Fitz is a real debate.
And all three recievers highlighted here are stand-up guys who don’t have the diva personalities like TO, Moss, and Ocho.
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Happy Now Tits?
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by CFHTim on Oct 23, 2009 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
amen.
but ocho isn’t really a bad guy. every friday he buys 200 tix for fans to watch movies with him. this week, he’s taking em’ to see SAW 6. that’s pretty awesome…
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He may not be a "bad guy", but he does have a personality that is more of a distraction than a help.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 23, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not so much this season.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Ochocinco is awesome
I have no problem with him. I always liked him, and then when he kicked a field goal in that preseason game I almost jizzed.
I don’t think he belongs in the same category as Meshawn or TO.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 23, 2009 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me neither.
Ocho is more in the vein of “Neon” Deion than TO or Keshawn “GIMMIE DA BALL” Johnson. he’s a showman, but ask any guy in that locker room, noone works harder. Ocho gets a bad break, but i follow him on Twitter, dude seems cool as hell.
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Randy's credit, he's stopped being such a total
fool after the humbling experience that is the Raiders. he’s really kept his mouth shut and let his play talk since coming to the Pats.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 24, 2009 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets start a new debate
Which receiver will have the best DVOA/DVAR/DFA at the end of the season?
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 23, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Let's not.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 23, 2009 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I have said in other places of the thread
That’s the more relevant question.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 23, 2009 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
to most of the answers from Colts fans
thats seems to be the question asked.
Because like any good lawyer knows, if the facts are in your favor, argue the facts, if not, argue statistics.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 23, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or in this case
People are arguing a subjective interpretation of reality and using statistics to back it up/not back it up.
Besides, any good lawyer really knows that all you need is the Chewbacca Defense.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 24, 2009 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
"just remember. it does not make sense!"
I should use that against the niner fans we’ve been getting into an argument with over at ninernation
by Jordann on Oct 24, 2009 8:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
The colts fans all threw a hissy fit and went home to grumble to themselves about how having 16 prime time games isn’t enough respect and to circle jerk off to how much better Manning is then Brady.
by nolander on Oct 23, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's friday....
and i was gonna start a new thread….
(you all know the rest)
You are banned from Music City Miracles. (twice)
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Imagine this for a moment,
Fitz-AJ-CJ with Manning at QB. sigh That would be a sight.
A man from Dallas who bleeds red, not silver and blue.
by Sir Whirly on Oct 23, 2009 3:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CJ?
no thanks.
Purple Jesus.
Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.
by texanphil on Oct 23, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ill do you one better.
FITZ, AJ, with AP, and as QB…
Vick.
you can’t gameplan against that.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I think Vick is going to become a premier QB in the next couple years. Give the man some decent receivers who can CATCH the damn ball and he would be a juggernaut.
by nolander on Oct 23, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calvin Johnson
… and this hurts to say.. But Calvin Johnson is the best WR in the NFL. (and this coming from a guy who thinks AJ is chiseled out of Awesome.) But the Lions supporting caste makes the focus he gets put AJ to shame. The guy has a different OC every year and has 3 below average QB’s throwing him the ball with their own different ‘styles’. we put CJ on the Texans and I think he’d stun the NFL.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 24, 2009 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he will surpass AJ
but not for a few years.
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by CFHTim on Oct 24, 2009 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
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by chrisd21 on Oct 23, 2009 5:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG I had to skip like 200 but I reached the BOTTOME YES…………just had to get in on this epic thread.
AJ over RW. Pei-Tun over Brady. Tis all I am going to say.
Schlauton
by Schlauton on Oct 23, 2009 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Really?
We’re gonna stop short of 500?
Where the heck is CFHTim or Chris or nolander or TF?
Get in here before Tim actually closes this epic thread!
by Jordann on Oct 24, 2009 8:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He can't close this thread.
It has grown beyond his paltry admin skills. It has become a living thing.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 24, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are trapper keeper.
We are one.
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by CFHTim on Oct 24, 2009 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Damn Life.
Always getting in the way of my blogging.
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by CFHTim on Oct 24, 2009 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andre's Greatness...
is not the number of catches, but the catches he makes. He is built in such a way that those WRs can’t compare. He makes the catches that have to be made, that what makes AJ the best reciever in football….I think.
GO TEXANS!!!!
This is the year.......
by Texanmaniac on Oct 24, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya! That and he shoots lasers from his eyes!
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Oct 24, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wayne is not in the conversation with these two
Fitz and AJ are neck and neck and AJ has speed that fitz doesnt hence AJ being the best in the league!!
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun of no fun
by rlott#42 on Oct 24, 2009 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Been nice talkin to you rlott#42
Hope to still see you around Monday to discuss the epic battle on Sunday.
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by CFHTim on Oct 24, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Amarillo been watchin Texans games all year and when they play the games not on tv
"Optimist Prime"
"Child Please" -Ochocinco
It's the Shogun of no fun
by rlott#42 on Oct 24, 2009 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've only seen one Niner game so far this year.
I’m a big Singletary (sorry if misspelled) fan, and Willis is a fun player to watch on Sundays. Good luck this season, after Oct. 25th.
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by CFHTim on Oct 24, 2009 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True Fact
Andre Johnson is a ninja.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 25, 2009 12:53 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Holy Hell!!!
I just read through all that shit!!
Texans!! "Break on thru to the other side!!!!!"
by Slash20 on Oct 25, 2009 1:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AJ AL LDAY
its cuz of his athleticism, power, and speed
by Kotlondon on Oct 25, 2009 4:37 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
For being post #500.
When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.
by tehGrindCrusher on Oct 26, 2009 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson is the best WR in the league
"We play to win the game" - Herm Edwards
by nicholas.rodriguez on Oct 25, 2009 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
The problem with adding Fitzgerald to this ridiculous joke of a thread
…is that it somehow lends credibility to the idea that Wayne somehow even belongs in the discussion.
Also – I thought we eclipsed 500? Why does it say there are only 378 comments now? I know it’s not because vulgar language was removed, because that crack about goat rape is still there from whatever idiot posted it.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 26, 2009 9:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I too thought that was odd
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
by BattleRedHusker on Oct 27, 2009 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was that an underhanded comment....
or just outright hating on the thread? enlighten me @HoustonDiehards….
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by chrisd21 on Oct 27, 2009 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, hating on the thread – yes, absolutely. It’s ridiculous that this is even a conversation.
The goat rape comment was a shot at myself, because I’m the one that said it.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 27, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hating on the thread:
posted earlier in the convo, as to why i created it in the first place:
i couldn’t think of a better way to PROVE to colt fans that they live in a damn bubble… then by allowing the SB Nation to bust that muh fukker for em’.
mission accomplished.
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by chrisd21 on Oct 27, 2009 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mission accomplished, indeed
I hope when our team has that much success, we don’t do the same.
Chris - www.HoustonDiehards.com
by HoustonDiehards on Oct 28, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't want to bother reading through this whole thread
but I’m glad we can isolate the best posts in green. The fact that other unbiased fans of other teams are on AJ’s side says a lot.
by goingforthecorner on Oct 27, 2009 11:44 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
reggie vs andre
as a life long colts fan id take andre johnson over reggie wayne. i’m not taking a shot at reggie by any means but face the facts andre johnson is an absolute stud and is the best receiver in the nfl . reggie is number 2 but andre johnson is the man
by leebomb on Nov 1, 2009 5:20 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Nice to hear from a sane Colts fan
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by CFHTim on Nov 1, 2009 11:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Chad Johnson weighs in.....
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by chrisd21 on Nov 2, 2009 9:48 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
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