What Didn't Happen?
by Rip Jersey on Nov 24, 2009 10:51 AM CST
31 comments
Coaching.
Clutch Kicking.
Containment of VY.
Coaching.
I blame this loss more on the coaching than ever before. The pieces are there and the coaches didn't use them right and made moves that befuddle me. I am depressed and I will come out of it, but right now, the coaches let me down. They didn't play to this teams strengths, when they needed it the most. They mismanaged time, as usual. I hate to be critical, but Kubiak continues to be the worst coach I have ever seen, on a consistent basis, totally mismananging the game-clock. Shame on you Coach Kubiak. He has the players who can execute and he totally blows it game after game. I can always go back after these losses and point at the coach for mismanaging the clock. That is his job and his job, only. Coach Kubiak has no game-sense when it comes to the clock.
UGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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Im sorry I didnt realize Kubiak played cornerback, offensive line, or kicked field goals. Maybe some examples of this mismanaging of the game-clock to back up your claims, because I dont remember any cases last night. Fisher called a timeout with 1 second before the 2 minute warning for no damn reason in the 1st half, why arent you calling him the “worst coach you have ever seen”? I swear the blaming of the coach for everything is pretty played out. The coaches werent flawless by any means, but they were in a position to win with 5mins left in the game, and again to tie with 47 seconds and the players failed to execute in both of those series. The coaches can only put the team in a position to make a play, the players have to step up and deliver.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
What do you mean "blaming of the coach for everything is pretty played out"?
I didn’t blame it all on the coach. And, show me where I have ever said the coach should receive the blame in any of my other posts. I’m pretty sure I made my point of how the coach mismanaged the game. He didn’t use the pieces available to him as he should have and he mismanaged the clock, which is habitual and expected at this point. If you are tired of hearing about it then you are in the wrong place and you’ve been watching the games with battle-red glasses on. Kubiak has written the book on mismanaging the clock. He uses that as an excuse after nearly every loss. I don’t need to provide quotes from sources to make that statement. If you didn’t know that, then you haven’t been paying attention.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
blaming the coach for everything is generally played out, not by you personally. If you want to say overuse of Chris Brown was poor ‘game management’ I might be on board, but you have yet to name one example for last nights game where he mismanaged the clock.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
BTW, DaGoat
I appreciate your chippiness. If you don’t agree with me, please state your case.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I mentioned Ryan Moats, for instance...
The guy never saw the playing field on offense. Not sure about special teams. This player had a career game a few weeks ago and has been invisible ever since. He clearly is better than Steve Slaton at getting to the holes before they disappear. I’m not saying he is the 1st-stringer, just saying that the coaches never even put him in to try to change things up. The rushing game was failing most of the night and, IMO, could have used a bit of a change-up to try to get it untracked. Moats would have been a good choice to put in for that purpose. He was explosive just a few weeks ago, and last night he was irrelevant because he didn’t see the field. Coaches’ decision!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
You lost me as soon as you said Ryan Moats was better than Slaton. Your grandmother could have a career day against the Buffalo rush defense.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
The facts support my claim
When Ryan Moats has played, he has found the holes and has accelerated through them. Slaton is a step slow this year. He has not found his high gear and he doesn’t find the holes. It’s true. I am a huge fan of Slaton, but he has not been finding the holes.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
And I'm not saying bench Slaton and play Moats
I’m just saying try playing Moats. Don’t sit him on the bench for the entire game.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
What facts support your claim? The only two games he had a decent amount of carries was Buffalo and against the Colts. He was down right horrible against the Colts. So you are basically basing him being better than Slaton entirely on the Buffalo game in which they were dead last in the league in rush defense. I dunno what you are watching when you claim Slaton doesnt find holes or have a high gear. When he gets in space hes explosive, and what hole is he not finding? There are ZERO holes. The offensive line isnt opening any. When hes getting hit in the backfield by a defensive tackle, thats not “Slaton not finding the hole”, thats no hole at all because our blocking is terrible. Just look at Moats against the Colts rush defense, he looked no different, because until the offensive line can block, it doesnt really matter who is running down the middle. So put the guy with better explosiveness and speed in there. Slatons one fault has been the fumbling. Thats completely on him.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
I mentioned containment of VY
VY should have been spied for the majority of the game, but, he obviously wasn’t until the last part of the last quarter. The announcers even made that point. He wasn’t spied for virtually the entire game.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
They could have adjusted to his a little better, but honestly most of VYs runs came on passing plays. You got 3 or 4 WRs to cover and then Johnson coming out of the backfield. Its alot to cover without VY sitting back in the pocket for 3 seconds and then taking off. I honestly think if they kept guys up to block him from doing that, it would just leave Johnson one on one with a linebacker, and that would have ended up even worse.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
On the last drive, the decision to move the ball two yards to the right was ridiculous
They should have tried to pass for another 5 to 8 yards as they had on the previous two plays. If the pass was incomplete, clock stops. The two yards to the right make no difference to Kris Brown at 49 yards out. The change in angle is so minimal it is laughable that Kubiak called that play. If it was a 20-yarder it might have made a difference. Dumb play call. Coaches decision!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
yes they should risk Matt getting sacked, risk a possible fumble, or risk a possible interception, or a receiver running loose for too long and not having the awareness to go down. Its easy to second guess it now, but the bottom line is they were well within Brown’s range and there was no reason to risk anything further with 8 seconds left. They just tried to line it up in the middle for him. In hindsight they should have ran it out to the right hash since this fucker wants to keep hooking left.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
Which brings my next point
The coach has to trust his players. There was time on the clock for one more play and a quick 5-8 yard play would have been better than the weak zero yard gain, two yards over. Schaub could have just as easily fumbled that play, if that is your worry. A pass of 5 to 8 yards would have made more sense. To say that it doesn’t matter because after the fact you know that Brown shanked it, is irrelevant. The right play was to trust your team to make the pass. If the pass wasn’t there, you have to trust that Schaub would put the ball only where his player can make the catch or it is incomplete. Just like any other play in the game. Trust your players. You have time. Try to get the extra 5 yards. A 44 yard field goal kick is a lot easier than a 49 yarder.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
How is he going to fumble going down to the ground on a kneel down without even being touched until he is on the ground? Come on you are grasping at straws. If they had run another play and something went wrong, you would be screaming about how stupid they were for not kicking the field goal. The try for extra yards is irrelevant, they were within his range and he pulled it.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
Again I have to say
If they called a penalty on the CB dragging our reciever downfield after the play was dead, we’d be looking at a 34 yarder instead of 49. Hate to harp on it, but when Texans players get called for personal fouls for glaring at Titans players for too long after a play and Titans are literally dragging Texans around the field and laying on top of them to kill time with no fouls called, it’s pretty messed up. Then the referee’s “high five” with Vince Young after the game, the league should launch an internal investigation, but they won’t as being “fair” in this case would only open a can of worms they’d rather keep shut. I’m not saying there was for sure something fishy going on, but in a game where the Titans got so many beneficial calls and no calls from the refs, for one of those refs to celebrate the win with the players like that is tasteless at best and should at least be looked at.
I would agree
If the kick had been short, I’d agree with you. But it wasn’t. So 5-8 yards more on a play (which is no guarantee) was not the solutuon to our problem. A 5 yard shorter kick does not fix the Tin Cup shanks that Brown has developed.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
by Shake on Nov 24, 2009 8:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I would have preferred a shot at the endzone
Play to win the game, not to tie the game. If the pass is incomplete, you still have a chance to make the FG. Sure, a sack or pick becomes more likely, but your odds of winning before the end of the fourth quarter go up infinitely, since otherwise your chances are zero.
I agree with you about the coaching now that ive had time to cool off from the loss
A couple key things in my eyes:
1) Where were the screens last night? One of the staples of our offense and the best way to get Slaton involved but screens seemed pretty much non existent.
2) Seemed like there was no plan to contain VY on his scrambles, and if there was one it was a FAIL.
3) Centering the ball for a 49yd fg when Brown had already missed a 49 yarder in the game?? C’mon Man!! I hated that call when it happened and still do. We had 8 seconds, 1 timeout, a top 5 QB, and an All-Pro WR, why the fuck didnt we try another play to get 10-12 yards.
4) This is the 4th loss where we have had a chance to tie the game on our last possession. If that doesnt reflect directly on the coaching then who does it reflect on?
1.) I can kinda agree with this. Using Chris Brown so much didnt make any sense to me, he was ineffective. Although they did try to run a Slaton screen on 3rd and goal and everyone hated that call(even though he has scored on that exact play earlier in the season in the red zone). Go figure.
2.) I think they were focusing more on Johnson than Vince. I personally am not sure how they could have played it correctly as its gotta be hard to cover all the wide outs, and contain johnson coming out of the backfield before you even think about worrying about Vince. My only idea would have been to play man coverage on the wideouts, and blitz Vince repeatedly with linebackers to make him throw it immediately or hope to be in his face when he scrambles. I think the problem with this is they could then eat us up with draws and screens to Johnson. Im really struggling to think up just how they can contain Johnson and VY at the same time.
3.) Brown has hit from 56 yards this year and has multiple 50yarders in his career. 49 yards is well within his range and you do not plan for your kicker to miss 2 makeable kicks in a row. Distance was not the issue, it was him hooking it so badly. Honestly another 10 yards wouldnt even have made a difference on that kick.
4.) How does that reflect on the coach? Im asking honestly because from my opinion, it looks like the coaches put them in a position to make a play and the players failed to deliver. Do the ones actually performing the play have no accountability? If you see a movie with poor acting, do you blame the director or the actor for a poor performance? Im not saying the coaches are blameless, but they werent the ones out on the field.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
2) I think we were using mostly zone schemes partially to help contain Vince on his scrambles, but that wasnt helping too much. If we ran man to man with blitzes and VY escaped the blitz than he would have had lots more room to run because our defenders would have been further downfield. I would have liked to see more QB spying in the zones and either we were doing that and it failed or we werent, i honestly dont know.
3) 10 yards can make a huge difference for a kicker mind set wise. Brown had missed his last two FGs of 40 yards or more, the game tying attempt vs ind and the 49 yd attempt earlier in the game. A shorter FG can give the kicker more confidence and you never know what could have happened if we got the ball in Andre’s hands, if he breaks a tackle or two it could have been a TD, but instead it looked like we were playing not to lose instead of playing to win at home (not just on that play but most of the game.)
4) The players definitely have accountability, but I feel like when the team consistently fails in late game situations it falls on the coaches for not preparing them enough for those situations. The players have shown the ability to move the ball and to score when the game is not on the line but have struggled when it matters. That could be due to nerves on their part, or poor playcalling and preparation on the coaching staffs part. IMO, the fact that it has happened 4 times now is more a reflection of the coaches than the players.
by TexasHoosier on Nov 24, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
To focus on Kris Brown and his inadequacies as a kicker in this instance
…well, I think it is not central to the topic of questioning the play-calling of the coach during the one-minute drill. They were trying to set up the kicker for the best possible kick, I agree. I don’t agree that moving the ball two yards to the right was even remotely the best play. Two yards to the right provided Kris Brown with no advantage, whether he put the foot on the ball correctly or not. Closer to the uprights is what would have been the right call. I will stick to this belief to the end. When I saw Schaub dive to the ground to the right for a lateral two yards, I just cringed and knew at that point that the coach had given up the game. It was the wrong call. It accomplished nothing. It showed he has no trust in his players to execute. I hated it then. I hate it now. It was the final straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I have been a Kubiak supporter all the way. Doubt has set in over this season as I have watched him blow it in the 4th quarter during close games. He doesn’t have what it takes. He just doesn’t. I can’t hold back anymore. I am calling it how I see it.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I guess you were better with your words than I was
but I completely agree about everything you just said. EVERYTHING. Like you I have been a Kubiak supporter through and through since we brought him in, but he has lost me this season with all the late game failures. Some of the failures have been due to play calling and some due to lack of execution, but to me when it happens over and over again the blame falls on the coach for a lack of preparation. Kubiak did not trust Schaub to make a smart play with 8 ticks left, or he didnt trust the receivers to catch the ball, or he didnt trust the lineman to block, or he trusted Kris Brown too much, but either way he made a mistake, again.
by TexasHoosier on Nov 24, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions
So you are saying that where they lined the ball up on the field means nothing(when he pulled the ball to the left) and yet the distance is what mattered(when he easily kicked it to the middle of the posts)? Seriously? He had plenty of leg. How are you not getting that? Im still trying to figure out how you can blame the coach for a kicker pulling a kick left, a running back fumbling at the goal line, an offensive line not getting a push for a rb to get in the end zone, or a QB throwing a pick 6? This is the youngest team in the NFL. They lack maturity and experience of being winners. If anything you should be mad at the players for screwing their coach over when he puts them in a position to succeed. Honestly this is like how everyone blames the President for everything when theres hundreds of senators and congressmen making the decisions. The only thing I can blame Kubiak for would be overuse of Brown, and the defenses failures to find a way to adapt to their dual running threat. Despite all of that, they were still in a position to take that game TWICE at the end of the game and the players failed to execute. I dont know how many of you played sports in high school, but your coach can yell at you all he wants, but you dont win until the players come together and say enough of this shit, Im tired of losing, Im gonna win this right now. That falls on the character of the players, not the coaching staff.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
They could have kicked the ball from the far right sideline
And Brown still would have hooked that thing left. I agree that no ammount of bad coaching is responsible for such a horrible kick. The way he kicked that ball, he could kick it from 20 yards out and still probably hooked it so to blame that kick on the coaches doesn’t really fly with me. And really, I didn’t think the game was coached that poorly, we didn’t kill ourselves trying to establish the run as we have in the past. What killed us was fan boy refs and the worst game Brown has ever had as a pro.
I think the refs and Kris Brown played into it, but we struggled moving the ball once we got to midfield in the 2nd half of the game. Seriously how many times did we have to punt from midfield area? Just outside of the redzone was a problem for us. Couple that with our defense getting dinked and dunked on for 8 yards a play and it became a problem.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
First let me say that hi to everybody. This is my first post here.
Secondly I would like to address why we didn’t see many screens on Monday night and then why I believe that the screen call was the wrong play call at the goal line. When you call a screen play you are anticipating a pass rush not just the 3 or 4 down linemen that the Titans were using to get pressure on us. When a team can get pressure on your qarterback with there 3 or 4 down linemen you have to be able to create some space for your WR or running back to catch the ball and do something with it when you are running a screen. The way the Titans were able to play us we didn’t have the opened spaces because they weren’t having to use there linebackers to get pressure on us, hence they were at the right place in sufficent numbers to make the play. I believe that Gary thought they were going to send a blitz on the goal line play and that is why he called for the screen, had they blitzed it would have been a good call but I really see no reason why he would have thought that being that they really hadn’t needed to blitz all night. When all is said and done he was just out coached. On the other hand I have no idea why he was using Brown as runningback other thatn he thought he needed the help in picking up the blitz. So I don’t have a problem in him starting him if that is what he thought there game plan would be but as soon as he saw that it wasn’t he should have tried Slaton IMO. He also seemed to approach the game thinking that it would be low scoring, I really don’t understand this either with the weapons that we have why let what we think the defense will be dictate to us what kind of offense we will use. In essence it seemed that he was saying that yours is better thatn mine but I am smarter than you are instead of saying that A.J/Slaton/ Shaub etc is better than your defense and you better be able to keep up.
After saying all of this I believe that Gary’s time management problems are the least of his worries. He coaches not to win too often going against the character and the stregnths of his team. After 4 years I think that it should cost him his job
Great first post, BUB
And, I read your second post, too. It was right up there, too. Welcome to the BRB!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Nov 28, 2009 8:54 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Rip Jersey
Thanks for the props. I really like the format of this forum just found it the other day. Good topic I agree with you that Kubiak does have some serious game management issues lets see if he can pull out a win against Indy. I do doubt it though seeing that he is starting Brown again.
Welcome, BUB
Look forward to reading more from you in the very near future.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
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