Checking The Pulse: Should Gary Kubiak Be Back In 2010?
by Tim on Dec 16, 2009 1:00 PM CST
in News
129 comments
Last week, 46% of those who voted said Gary Kubiak should be back next season; 34% said he shouldn't; and 18% were undecided. Fresh off a throttling of the Seahawks, have those figures changed? Let's find out.
Vote below, please. As with last week, if you believe Kubes should be handed his walking papers, kindly tell us your realistic replacement for Kubiak as head coach of the Texans in 2010 in the Comments below.
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Voted Yes last week.
My mind is unchanged.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 1:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
When you look at the real classy organizations, the one thing you find is stability. Changing everything just as the team gets the pieces in place will never bring success.
The Buddist ask the hot dog vendor to make him one with everything.
by Trukker on Dec 16, 2009 9:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
98%
What did the other 2% vote?
I’m undecided at this point. I am waiting to see how they do in the next 2 games, including a very meaningful game in Miami (for Miami, at least, if not Houston!)
by Dragongem on Dec 16, 2009 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Re: 2%
They voted for Kodos.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 16, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
Because that is what my bumper sticker says.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Dec 16, 2009 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Undecided now (yes I admit it).
As much as I was ready to hand Kubes his walking papers after the Jax game something struck me during the Seahawks game that I can’t get out of my head and I’m not sure why. At one point the camera panned over to Kubes standing on the sideline with his clipboard in his hand and at that moment something told me that he is a perfect fit for this team and organization. Something told me that he belonged in that Texans shirt and he belonged on our sideline. In that split second Kubiak was the face of the Texans and it seemed like the right thing. I think he can grow into what we expect from him as far as being the head coach and no matter how hard I try I can not picture anyone else standing on that sideline holding that clipboard and wearing a Texans shirt. That second the camera was on him changed something in me and I also don’t really see any other coaches out there I would be willing to gamble on instead of giving Kubes his last year on the contract. If Cowher was an option ( a real option) I would be okay with that but if that’s not an option I think I’m willing to give him another year. I still hope that he can win out the rest of the way and I think that would solidify my position on him (or one loss and not to the Rams).
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 1:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I am undecided, but I strongly lean towards bringing him back. He is just an easy guy to root for, and I do like the way he has built this team up, and feel that he could do more if brought back next year. If we lose out though I’ll probably say he should go.
by nolander on Dec 16, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Vince Lombardi
It’s tired to get away from this namby-pamby offense. I want to return to the days of three yards and a cloud of dust. EVERY play is a sweep.
Vince Lombardi: Your next Texans coach.
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 16, 2009 1:22 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I switched
From ‘No’ to ‘Undecided’. If there was an ‘Undecided but leaning towards No’ option, I’d take that one.
Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 16, 2009 1:24 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I did too, but I don't know why
Not trying to be funny, this season has just been so exasperating. Even with 7 losses we have yet to be mathematically eliminated from the WC race. That in of itself is progress I guess, but I just can’t stop dwelling on what shoulda’ coulda’ woulda’ been had we been just a wee bit better in crunch time during just one of those near misses. Change for the sake of change is definitely not what the Texans need, but the huge question is how are we going to get better with the current regime?
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 16, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Voted Yes
The one thing that our team is lacking is a running game. If we had that this year, there would be no doubt about the playoffs. Maybe some of the reasons for the playcalling resides in the fact we can’t run the ball. If we load up on better interior offensive linemen and throw in another running back (Gerhart or some kid like that), we can be a powerful team next year. That is if we resign Owen, Demeco and Pollard.
by Jahon on Dec 16, 2009 2:32 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Started the Q&A over the Turf Show Times.
Is that blog even alive? The first and only question i’ve received so far is asking about David “Mr. Mittens” Carr. Go. Rant. Now.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 2:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
so
If we vote no, we don’t want Kubiak back, we have to give a realistic viable option? So, if we don’t give a realistic viable option, should our votes not count?
Seems to me that regardless of the names people toss out there as replacements, those who want him back will shout all of those names down, anyway. So what’s the point of even voting?
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 2:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
so
Should I get the tear bucket now? Or you wanna just stick with tissues.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 3:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh. You again.
This was a legit question meant for Tim.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
That was immature. What kind of question was that?
Im just gonna lick the tears off your face as you cry for Cowher to be our coach for 2010 without actually backing up your choice.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Your staff is mighty...
and your pace, feverish.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Dec 16, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was some awesome trolling, though. You should be proud.
@footballfan412: Yes, I’m pretty sure your vote will count. I think, if you think no, Tim would like to have a discussion on a feasible option. That’s all.
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 16, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Sigh
I can understand your frustration, FF412. Rest assured your vote counts regardless of whether you offer alternatives to Kubes or not; I just happen to think it’s far more productive to consider replacements instead of simply calling for Kubes to get canned. I’d hope that McNair would do the same and not just fire Kubiak without thinking about the next step.
I guess the issue comes down to this: If you can’t get a proven commodity with a head coaching background, is it worth getting rid of Kubes to hire another coordinator with no head coaching experience? Personally, I’m not sure that it is. And I say that as someone who is very intrigued by Leslie Frazier.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 16, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Frazier
I’m intrigued as well.
But I sense Kubiak will get another year. If this place has four straight votes of confidence down the stretch, how could McNair make a change? I’m sure he’ll make his decision based on our vote.
Alas, Frazier will probably take one of the vacancies, so we’ll get to see him succeed or fail for another team.
And if Kubiak isn’t extended, we’ll have a fresh crop of talent from which to choose our 3rd head coach. I’m optimistic.
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 16, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, but...
Tim, thanks for the response. My point is, what’s the point of answering the question when you have already added a qualifier ONLY for those who answer a CERTAIN way?
If you think x, then cool. If you think Y, then, cool, but explain WHY you think y.
If we don’t come up with a response for WHY we want Kubiak gone, the impression ist – based on how you’ve presented it – is that the answer is a bad one.
What about, “If you want Kubiak to stay, explain reasons for WHY you want him to stay.”
You are automatically dismissing people who want him gone and demanding to know why people feel that way.
I don’t think I’m overanalyizing here. I’m being honest.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair Point
I suppose the discrepancy is that keeping Kubes seems like the default answer, based on what we’ve read and purport to know about how Bob McNair doesn’t want to fire Kubiak. Thus, I am probably guilty of shading the issue.
You raise a legitimate point. Just as there are reasons to can Kubes, there are reasons to keep him, and those reasons should be explored as thoroughly as the reasons to dismiss him.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 16, 2009 10:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the response
Bob McNair said at the end of last season that 8-8 was not good enough. He then said it during the preseason, and again at the start of this season. I believe one of his direct quotes was “Great coaches don’t go 8-8.”
Everybody is acting smug, assuming that Gary is a lock for next year, but I don’t think it’s that easy. If we hit 8-8 again I think he’s gone. And, I think 9-7 may be iffy at this point.
If I were Gary, I wouldn’t assume anything at this point.
by footballfan412 on Dec 17, 2009 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you name one person acting smug?
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 17, 2009 10:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Excessively self-satisfied?
Well, I think you qualify in a very literal sense.
ZING!
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 17, 2009 10:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've actually been getting some lately
I wish I could rec my own post.
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 17, 2009 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Wait...
you guys bought a sheep?
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 17, 2009 11:21 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
heh
The wool keeps me warm.
baaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 17, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I love you guys
Hugs!
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 17, 2009 12:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn internet
always keeping track of stuff. From Papa Bob, a couple days prior to J’ville game:
"Right now, I have a coach," McNair said Tuesday. "Since I have a coach, and I haven’t made any decisions to replace my coach, I’m not even thinking about anybody else. I’m just thinking about winning this next game against Jacksonville."
The Texans play Jacksonville, Seattle and St. Louis in their next three games. They close against Miami and New England.
"This is a critical time," McNair said. "My true feeling is we have our best chance of developing a winning team with Gary as opposed to someone else, at this point in time. Making a change is very disruptive.
"This is a critical time. I want to see how Gary manages it. In the past, he’s managed it very well when his back’s been against the wall. I hope he will now because I think he’s very sound.
"Even though you’re very sound and have a good relationship with the players, you still have to get them to perform. If we win the next five games, we’d be 10-6 and in the playoff race. That would be an outstanding performance. If we lose the next five, well, we’re in trouble."
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 17, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Not the quote im looking for.
But it’s an even better one.
by Jordann on Dec 17, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the highlighted part
sounds like its proving your point, but the last two paragraphs hint that he’s talking about removing Kubiak after the four losses, not at the end of the season.
The last two paragraphs, if you highlighted those, would hint that maybe the OP is right, and 8-8 won’t be good enough. But I could be reading into it.
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 17, 2009 9:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right...
My point was just that the OP said Bob has explicitly said a number of times that 8-8 wasn’t good enough, but just 2 weeks ago, he equivocated about it and said that he thought Gary gave them the best chance.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 18, 2009 7:14 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
8-8
Will keep him around. Grant it that McNair might not think he is a great coach based on his 8-8 comment you quoted but I think McNair does believe that Kubes could become great. Here’s another example that I think is relavent (you might not). Most people believe Bill Belichick is one of the best coaches in the league at present time. Some even call him a master mind at the game. When he started out he was hired by the Browns and was HC from 1991-1995 and compiled a 36-44 record and had only one winning season and that was in his 4th year as head coach. The following year he went 5-11 and was fired at the end of 1995. He became HC in of the Pats in 2000 and went 5-11 that year and went 9-7 in 2002. A star HC is not born overnight. The best of the best don’t just start out winning and as it is seen that it can take about 4-5 years for that to happen (reference the comment about Jeff Fisher – although you have already dismissed that). There is a pattern here between both Belichick and Fisher that winning doesn’t happen in the first year and you have to allow the guys to learn and build the team the way they feel they need to in order to win. So if you have the option to give him another year and see if he can take that next step it’s not a bad idea. All Tim asked for was a viable option if you were to fire Kubes but you refuse to give one and you say it’s out of fear of the unknown but a lot of people have given their reasons as to why and you want to still argue it and that’s fine but you have given no other option or suggestion on how you would fill that void. And giving someone else a shot just for the sake of giving someone else a shot is about as strong an arguement as not firing him out of fear. Also my comments point to the suggestion that talent does have a little bit to do with it.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 17, 2009 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Just because we don’t agree with you doesn’t make us smug. Nor does us actually using facts and logic in our arguments.
by nolander on Dec 17, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I picked No.
I’ve got a fanpost about this and everything, I don’t need to repeat myself.
I don’t think anything has changed. I agree with TGC for the most part…I’m not 100% sold, but he’d have to really show me something in the next 3 games (i.e. go undefeated/2-1 with more Kris Brown implosions, and make some convincingly brilliant strategical moves/challenges/playcalls) for me to think he should keep his job.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Dec 16, 2009 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
So if he pulls a trade
after the trade deadline and snatches Patrick Willis away from the 49ers, would you vote yes?
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't trade for Patrick Willis
Patrick Willis trades for your team, then decides if you get to remain in your current city or you have to pack up and move to the locale of his choosing.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 16, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 17, 2009 9:51 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot
Oh yeah, I forgot about your fanpost. You had some interesting thoughts. I don’t agree that we should bring in another coordinator, though. Makes me a little nervous.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am officially changing my vote to yes. There I did it.
The more I think about it, the more I blame the players. I still think Kubiak has ALOT to learn about being a head coach. I believe that he needs to get COMPLETELY OUT of the playcalling business and focus on managing the game and the team.
At the end of the day though I think he deserves ONE more year to get it right with this roster. If the players would have executed, we would be in the playoffs. Having anyone named “Chris/Kris Brown” on your team should qualify you for a 4 game handicap.
So I guess I am saying that I believe that Kubiak is not the largest problem on this team right now.
However he better win out at this point.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
by TexansForever on Dec 16, 2009 3:06 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
If we resign Chris Brown.
and Kris Brown next season.
I might have to change camps.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 3:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but...
…didn’t he turn over playcalling duties to Baby Shanny at the end of last season? When he did that, I was excited, because it would mean he’d focus solely on managing the game and the team. But he hasn’t done that.
I agree with you about that, though. If he could just focus JUST on managing the game he may be ok. Maybe he saw that Baby Shanny still needed some guidance. I don’t know, but I agree that that’s a major issue.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That was the deal.
Baby Shan was struggling with play calling at the beginning of the season and the lack of a running game intensified the apperance that Baby Shan wasn’t ready so being the head coach Kubes took it over or at least had a major say in what they were doing. He was the one who made the adjustments mid season when it was apparent we couldn’t run the ball so he had to focus more on the side of a OC instead of a HC and change our whole plan of attack. He became more focused on fixing the problem and was not as focused on managing the game. The lack of a running game or the initial shock of not having a running game changed a lot of things from coaching, to play calling to game time management. It sucks that’s the way it happened but it did and it shouldn’t give Kubes a free pass but it does illustrate the changes this team has had to make throughout the season and somehow some way it boils down to the running game we thought we had locked up before the season started.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We've all seen what Baby Shan can do
with a reliable running game. Remember the Chicago game?
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 4:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
and that’s why they spent the first half of the season trying to figure how to get their running game going and then realized halfway through they couldn’t and spent the next half of the season trying to figure out how to win by just throwing the ball – a band-aid instead of all out surgery because that’s all they could do with the time they had.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to diminish that comment
but one game at the end of the season when the only thing at stake was eliminating the Bears from the playoffs is not that big of a deal to me. Yeah that game was nice, especially the looks of total dibelief on all of the fans weraing Bear gear (and there were thousands of them at that game). He needs to call great games when there are + stakes on the line for the good guys. To a large extent, he whiffed on that earlier this year. Hopefully we can chalk that up to experience, because clearly Kubiak cannot improve as a game manager if he is forced to focus on calling and/or approving all of the offensive plays.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 16, 2009 10:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The point has been made fairly convincingly I believe that Shanahans failings have come about as a result of a complete lack of running game. Thats just a shitty situation for a guy who had only called one full NFL game before. Hopefully Kubiak helped to get him back on track earlier this year and he will be better going forward. Better yet, hopefully we have a running game next year.
by nolander on Dec 17, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
holy shit why am I agreeing with you, I gotta run outside and see what the hell is falling out of the sky.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Dec 16, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just glad someone hasn't mentioned VY.
by DaffyD on Dec 16, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's because
we’ve already decided to trade the team for Patrick Willis and he is a way better QB than VY will ever be. Willis will be the next black QB to lead his team to the SB and enter the HOF.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
NO! We need an O-line.
I would have wrote that in all caps but I would have received a BANNED. You my friend receive a FAIL!
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We need Vince Young.
We don’t need an O-Line if we have a guy that just wins.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If we had Vince Young our passing game would die but defenses would have to respect his ability to run and that would open things up for Slaton. We would proceed to lose games because we can’t pass when we need to instead of not being able to run when we need to. :-p
by nolander on Dec 16, 2009 5:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Because I gotta...
You know who else is a way better QB than VY?
Chris Brown.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Dec 16, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Without a doubt.
You saw the air CB got under that ball?!?! The dude is nothing but awesomeness.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Steve McNair.
Right now, I mean.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 16, 2009 6:35 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
One-upsman.
Nice cherry-topper, sir.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Dec 17, 2009 9:52 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you have to take players chemistry and desire into the equation. Lots of players have been speaking out in favor of Kubiak, you have to wonder how bad the chemistry would be hurt if you didnt give him one more year. Most of these are players he brought in now for this system. Most of our loses came down to a last minute mistake by a young player. After another year of experience and growing from these tough games, will they produce next year? I dunno, but right now Im inclined to give him his last year to make us believers. If his players wont quit on him, I shouldnt either.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Dec 16, 2009 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Not all players
I see your point, but I honestly think certain players, like Andre, Cushing, Pollard and Demeco would thrive no matter who the coach was. These guys just have a nose for the game.
Matt worries me a bit, but, I think he’s a highly intelligent guy (more intelligent that we give him credit for) and I think he’d be ok.
Whatever decision that is made, it shouldn’t be based on fear.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The decision wouldn't be based on fear.
I dont know if your response was anyway related to goat’s post but I dont understand your point.
Bear with me because im actually trying to see what you’re saying.
And your point about certain players would thrive no matter who the coach was, I disagree on one of the players you listed. Pollard. Dont you remember what happened to him in KC?
What DaGoat was saying is that not giving Kubiak another shot next year would ruin the whole team’s chemistry. Most of the key players in our team wants Kubiak back and if they want Kubiak back, who are we to say that they’re wrong. They clearly see Kubiak leading them to the playoffs.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because the players like a coach, doesn’t mean he is a good coach. Don’t get me wrong, I want Kubes to be back next year. It is just interesting because at my school, University of Wyoming, we made a coaching change this year after five years of irrevelance. The players loved the old coach, Joe Glenn, and our starting freshman qb even said he would leave if Glenn got fired. UW stil did it and brought in Dave Christensen and the changes from one season to the next have been night and day. See, I never had a problem with Glenn as a coach or his scheme. I always had a problem with his recuriting ability. It seemed we always got good players, just good D-II players. And he was a nice guy and they loved him. But when Christensen came on, late for the recuriting phase, he seemed to get smarter and tougher players. And now that I reread this, I’m going off on a tangent. Back to my point: Just because a player or players like the coach and can see him leading them somewhere, doesn’t always mean he is the right coach and can get the job done.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. GO WYO!!! Beat Fresno in the New Mexico Bowl!!!
by BigNate7 on Dec 18, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that.
But the players respond to Kubiak. They know that he’s on the hot seat. And how did they respond? By announcing their support for Kubiak and whooping the heck out of the seahawks.
by Jordann on Dec 18, 2009 12:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If this had happened one week earlier
we’d be serious contenders.
and if grandma had nuts, she’d be grandpa, I know.
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 18, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Schuab's Development...
Am I the only one afraid that Schaub MIGHT be ‘system qb’? I really don’t mean to bash the guy who has truly stepped up his game this year and carried this offense without a running game, but that doubt lingers in the back of my mind. I really don’t have much to back it up other than what I see/feel when I watch him play. Either way, he has come leaps and bounds under Kubiak, and I’m thinking pulling the rug out from under him just when he is hitting his stride could be catastrophic.
My feeling is give Kubiak one more year..Come on we’re Texans fans, we’re used to this not winning thing. Next year will be the first year I will feel validated in my optimism about this team reaching the playoffs (i wanted it this year but had too many doubts). I’m not ready to scrap the system and go into a two/three year rebuilding phase (again!). Give the guy one more year with full knowledge of the fact that it’s playoffs or bust (for his job).
by Texans 'Til I Die on Dec 16, 2009 4:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, you are.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Dec 16, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
By "system QB"...
do you mean a guy who stands in the pocket and throws for 300 + yards and 3 TD’s? And this scares you???
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume he's referring to...
The fear that changing the system will render Schaub useless, as it relates to changing coaches.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Dec 17, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Schaub
I wouldn’t go so far as to label Schaub a system QB, but I do think it’s a fair question to ask whether he’d experience some sort of regression (albeit temporary) in another offense. Now in his third year under Kubes, Schaub knows this scheme backwards and forwards. It’s natural to wonder whether he’d have an adjustment period in a non-Kubes offense.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 16, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The bottom line
is if you put Schaub behind a good o-line he will be able to do anything asked of him regardless of the head coach or scheme. Now if you want a running type QB then you have the wrong one but anything other than that Schaub would fit right in and be able to handle the job. He’s great at play action, he can throw the ball with the best of them, he has the size for a QB that you want, and he can pitch the ball for a HB pass. He would work either way, in a balanced offense, pass heavy or run heavy offense. In a run heavy offense he just wouldn’t put up the same numbers but he would still be great at either. I guess I could have just said what Tim did, “I wouldn’t go as far as to label Schaub a system QB” but I decided to talk my way around it. Great point Tim – I couldn’t agree more.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Dec 16, 2009 4:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Lay off Tim
It was the Coors Light talking!
Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 17, 2009 9:56 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and in his fourth year
can he audible?
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 16, 2009 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's year five
Duh.
Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.
by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 17, 2009 9:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't think so
I was honestly wondering that myself, but, I really think he’s a VERY intelligent quarterback who is finally getting his groove. Don’t think he’s a system qb.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I say yes
Because you have to have the right player for the right system.
Would V"Just Wins"Y be successful as a Texan QB under Kubiak? Well, no. Would Schaub be good in a system where he’s expected to scramble and buy his own time or in a zone read? Well, no.
Kubiak traded for Schaub because he was being under-utilized AND because he fit the system well.
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 16, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
you can’t really call any QB in a Kubiak offense a system QB.
That label should be for a Texas Tech QB, or tits, where the system is unique.
I actually think most QB’s could thrive in this offense. And who wouldn’t want to have all these weapons, and no running game?
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 16, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
true
But Schaub ups it a notch, too. His play-actions have become theatre, for example. And you still have to have the arm to throw deep outs.
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 16, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta agree
because I thought OD was replaceable, but was WAY wrong there, too.
Schaub is an excellent QB, our system or not.
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 17, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think 9-7 saves his job
Anything less, and he should be fired.
by OremLK on Dec 16, 2009 5:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
From the SI.com power rankings
“..If it’s 8-8 for a third year in a row for the Texans, they’ll be the first team to manage that masterpiece of mediocrity since the Houston/Tennessee Oilers went 8-8 in 1996, ‘97 and ’98. Of course, that team went to the Super Bowl as the newly christened Titans in 1999, so there’s that.”
hey, maybe it’s a sign?
. o O ( Keeps dreaming, ahhhh )
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
by zala on Dec 16, 2009 5:21 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Its fun to joke about, but its something people really should think about before saying 8-8 three years in a row means Kubes can’t get the job done.
by nolander on Dec 16, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m a believer!
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
by zala on Dec 16, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is very interesting especially becuase several people where talking about swiping Fisher from the Tits
HOU 1994 1 5 0 .167 4th in AFC Central - - - -
HOU 1995 7 9 0 .438 3rd in AFC Central - - - -
HOU 1996 8 8 0 .500 4th in AFC Central - - - -
TEN 1997 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC Central - - - -
TEN 1998 8 8 0 .500 2nd in AFC Central - - - -
TEN 1999 13 3 0 .813 2nd in AFC Central 3 1 .750 Lost to St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXIV.
VERY similiar to what Kubiak has done thus far.
by nolander on Dec 16, 2009 5:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
Ok, so Fisher hit the jackpot after consecutive 8-8 seaons. So? What’s the point of constantly bringing this up? If we want to look up stats as a predictor of the future, why can’t we discuss the stats of the CURRENT coach’s record?
There is a great chance that Kubak will likely finish 8-8 or 7-9 next year.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 9:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean so? You don’t think showing how one of the best coaches in the NFL started off exactly as Kubiak did, and was able to get to the super bowl because the owner had patience with him is relevant? I get you wanting to fire Kubiak, but claiming this isn’t relevant is asinine.
I’m sure you have brought up the same arguments over and over again as to why to fire Kubiak, and that doesn’t make them any less true, just as me bringing up a good example of what can happen if you show some patience with a young coach and a young team more then once doesn’t diminish its relevance.
by nolander on Dec 17, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just can't buy this
Sorry, man, but I just don’t buy the “We don’t know what the future holds so let’s not change” argument. What we DO know is that the odds of us finishing next year at 8-8 or 7-9 are very good, based on past baseline performance.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually,
The argument is “Let’s stay with Kubiak because he gives us a better chance of winning compared to an off/def coordinator that has no HC experience and that this team is a couple of holes away from being a WC team.”
But you choose to ignore that. You’re making it seem like it’s you against the world. That we are all saying that we’re scared of the future so let’s not fire Kubiak. We’re not. We’ve been discussing and pointing out out reasons for why Kubiak should stay. We back our side with evidence yet you return to your “We dont know what the future holds so let’s not change” stance.
Now im asking you. Straight up. What are your thoughts. Why are you against keeping Kubiak for another year. Who do you think would make a better HC than Kubiak.
Your answer can be Cowher, but you gotta back it up.
by Jordann on Dec 16, 2009 10:05 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Cowher will magically dust our team with 3-4 super bowl pixie dust and everyone will suddenly be capable of playing in the 3-4 defense. Duh.
by nolander on Dec 17, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm on the fence, really...
but leaning toward letting him go. For reasoning, I incorporate by reference everything Rivers brought up in point b) of his post.
For a replacement, I was 100% in favor of Sean McDermott as our next DC, so I lean his way for HC as long as Kyle Shan can stay on as OC. If Kyle is out — which he might be anyway if his dad gets the gig in Dallas — then I don’t really have an answer and I probably lean slightly toward keeping Kubes in that scenario just so the O doesn’t get overhauled.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 17, 2009 8:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually no
the odds of going 8-8 or 7-9 next year have nothing to do with previous seasons. That would be true in a vacuum, but it’s even moreso when you consider the variance in situations between the last few seasons (i.e. one year, a fucking hurricane was involved and we didn’t have a true bye week). So you’re going to have to find another basis for that claim.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 17, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
We’re still using the hurricane as an excuse? San Diego damn near had their city burn to the ground, and had to move most of the city to the Chargers stadium. Yet, they managed to work through that.
And, yes, I think it’s fair to judge probabilities for next season on past seasons. Especially considering we have the NFC East coming in next year. Kubiak would have to do a 180 on his coaching for us to do better.
by footballfan412 on Dec 18, 2009 12:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry...
where did I say the hurricane was an excuse? I said it’s such an outlier in terms of normal variables that you can’t say with any certainty that, sans hurricane, the team would have been 8-8. Thus, basing your projection for next year (which, again, whether you understand the concept or not, has nothing to do with previous seasons due to variables like the NFC East rather than the NFC West) on the results of previous years is inherently flawed even if you were correct. Which you aren’t. Sorry if any of that was confusing.
San Diego’s fire has nothing to do with the conversation, other than possibly further undermining your point. They went 8-8 in the season they had a fire. They won 11 the year before. They’ve already won 10 this year. So, like my above point, it’s a strain to say that they were really an 8-8 team without the fire last year.
But, the bigger point (again) is that next year’s results have almost no tie to this year’s record or any other season’s record. There are far too many variables from one year to the next to claim otherwise. But, by all means, keep misinterpreting my posts to the contrary.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 18, 2009 7:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Even taking your premise at face value, you’ve failed to establish how changing head coaches varies the outcome for next year. If the odds are they are 8-8 and next year (per you), show me some sort of evidence that changing the coach changes those odds.
Yay, sports.
by MDC on Dec 18, 2009 7:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You are vastly overstating the effects of the San Diego fire compared to a FUCKING HURRICANE. As someone who lives an hour from San Diego and actually attended the game, I can sure as hell tell you they didn’t damn near have their city burned to the ground. They also proceeded to play their game, instead of having to do some weird shit like play in AZ or take an early bye week.
by nolander on Dec 18, 2009 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's funny how a thrashing of the Seahawks change people's minds so fast.
- Chris Brown starting
- Not running a play before the 2 minute warning against Indy
- Running up the middle 4 times vs. Az
- Chris Brown vs. Jax
- Sticking with Kris Brown
- Not having this team prepared for week 1
- Only discovering that Andre is pretty good last week
- Seemingly does his best coaching when the season is out of reach.
He’s done a good job getting the Texans this far, don’t get me wrong, but he’s not the one to get us to the promised land of the playoffs.
by chrisjay84 on Dec 16, 2009 6:06 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
1. Andre Johnson HOU 1237
I think they discovered he was pretty good all year long.
Honestly I understood them sticking with Kris Brown and still do, but after the Seattle game they should have started auditioning backup kickers.
by nolander on Dec 16, 2009 6:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In Kubiak's defense:
1) As opposed to fumble-prone, injured Slaton or fumble-prone poor pass-protection Moats?
2) Maybe it’s on Kubiak… But unless he’s overruling his staff, somebody up in the booth is really doing a piss-poor job. Kubes doesn’t get the luxury of seeing those replays. He has to rely on those guys.
3) It was twice. And it already worked once that game. On the 3rd-down call, Schaub had an open man and overthrew him; that’s poor execution, not coaching.
4) Which time? But if you’re referring to the throw, the play should have worked. Dreeseen was open; Leach blocked the wrong guy, and Brown made a terrible decision by just hucking it up.
5) Fair enough. But that Jets defense with a healthy Kris Jenkins is still beastly.
6) Andre Johnson is the most targeted receiver in the league this season (maybe 2nd-most after that Brandon Marshall performance). Either way, they’ve force-fed him the ball nearly every game this season.
7) Sad, but true. Then again, you could argue that his players don’t step it up until then.
by Nashmeister on Dec 16, 2009 7:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
1) Chris Brown starting is not the same thing as being the feature back. Do you just read the starting lineup and then stop watching the game? He doesnt get the bulk of the touches. Hes there because Moats isnt a very good blocker.
2) I dont know how many times it has to be discussed that the Texans sideline didnt know there was any reason to hurry up. The fumble happened on the far side of the field, the players and refs made no indication that there was a problem, and the Texans were trying to kill time off the clock.
3) People cry when they try to throw the ball on the goalline for crying out loud. What the hell is the right answer? You would expect any team in the NFL to be able to score from a yard out running the ball.
4) Was he supposed to look into the future and predict his running back fumbling? If he didnt fumble, it would have been called a TD.
5) What exactly was he supposed to do? If there isnt a kicker on the mid season market you think is better, you stick with your guy and try to get him over his mental error. Its not like its a position with 2 ppl behind him on the depth chart that you just plug in.
6) He might get some fault for that but he was also facing a team with no game film on how they would run their defense with the personnel they had in Ryan’s new system, and no film on how they would use their new QB. If you remember, the Jets went on a tear and won their first several games before teams started to figure them out. We were unlucky that we were first and didnt get a chance to see what they would do ahead of time.
7) Andre has been in the top5 of WRs all year and lead the league last year, so you comment is just a stupid troll and makes no sense.
8) or the players seem to make less mistakes when the season is out of reach. Im pretty sure hes not asking them to go out and fumble, or miss kicks.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
by DaGoaT on Dec 17, 2009 9:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted "No" last week
And I voted “No” this week. It takes more than one good game against a less talented team to change my mind when our division record is 1-5 and our home record is 3-4 with the only home wins against Oakland, San Francisco, and Seattle.
"Every time you turn on ESPN you see Bama" - Earl Thomas' answer when asked what excites him most about the National Championship.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Dec 16, 2009 8:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm willing to wallow in mediocrity...
with Kubiak until Dungy gets bored in his broadcasting gig or Fisher gets the bird from Satan.
by b0wse on Dec 16, 2009 10:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
wow
No joke?
I’m not willing to wallow. And, I love Dungy, but his kid committed suicide. That made him realize he wanted to do something else besides coach. He wanted to help people. If he DID return to coaching, I just can’t see him coming to a team that played Indy twice a year.
Don’t get me wrong. I would kill to have Dungy here, I just don’t think it’s realistic.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 10:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
suicide and kill in the same post
thats just not right man
"Every time you turn on ESPN you see Bama" - Earl Thomas' answer when asked what excites him most about the National Championship.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Dec 16, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Well, I love me some Dungy, but I understand that he’s been through a lot and would rather help young people than deal with the grind of coaching.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Worth reposting? I think so.
Well if we stick with Kubes you might get a coach just as good as fisher :-p
cough
HOU 1994 1 5 0 .167 4th in AFC Central - - - -
HOU 1995 7 9 0 .438 3rd in AFC Central - - - -
HOU 1996 8 8 0 .500 4th in AFC Central - - - -
TEN 1997 8 8 0 .500 3rd in AFC Central - - - -
TEN 1998 8 8 0 .500 2nd in AFC Central - - - -
TEN 1999 13 3 0 .813 2nd in AFC Central 3 1 .750 Lost to St. Louis Rams in Super Bowl XXXIV.
by nolander on Dec 17, 2009 1:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kubiak will not be fired, no matter what
He has received what he needs; the backing of the players. They will play for him. That is the main thing that matters right now. A winning record would help, too, but I think he has what he needs to get another year. Coach Kubiak is flawed and he is so close to being that head coach that we all want to see. If McNair grants it and he makes it through the year and into next, I will forgive Coach Kubiak for all his past transgressions and root him on.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Dec 16, 2009 10:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
lol
Well, I love me some Dungy, but I understand that he’s been through a lot and would rather help young people than deal with the grind of coaching.
by footballfan412 on Dec 16, 2009 11:25 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
67% keep? Less than 20% go? I admit to being a bit surprised at the turn-around after just one game,
"Because you cant read. Get lost looser." - Mcnair2VY
by bigfatdrunk on Dec 17, 2009 7:30 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of people only showed up to make their presence known when they wanted kubiak fired. It may make me sound like a douche, but its just how it seemed.
by nolander on Dec 17, 2009 11:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
We had 579 votes cast last week; as of now, we’re at slightly more than 500. As the total number of votes isn’t much different, I think it’s more likely people just did a 180 after the Seahawks game.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 18, 2009 9:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there is also a realization
Kubiak is coming back, no matter what, barring a total collapse, which last week wasn’t.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Dec 18, 2009 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There's also a mob mentality involved
As rivers says below, the “4 losses in a row”… got the ball rolling and the mob was taking over. Then, the losses stopped in dramatic fashion, albeit over the lowly Seahawks, but that put a damper on the mob mentality.
What have we learned about all this? How about, being a sports fan is emotional and that is how the fanbase reacts week to week.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Dec 18, 2009 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
which is why my vote
for all four polls will be undecided.
I’m guilty of the emotional roller coaster as well.
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 18, 2009 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
hell yeah. I went from all week defending kubiak to spending the 48 hours after the halfback pass saying he should be fired back to undecided. I love sports.
by nolander on Dec 18, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
which is why mcnair
is a billionaire and I’m not.
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Dec 18, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He owns more power plants than you do, too....
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Dec 18, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that was a typical "OMG 4 LOSSES IN A ROW" vote
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Dec 18, 2009 4:47 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
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