Make Your Voice Heard: How Many Games Do The Texans Have To Win For Gary Kubiak To Return Next Season?
by Tim on Dec 2, 2009 4:16 PM CST
in News
122 comments
Judging from the reaction to Jake's latest FanShot, the debate over whether Gary Kubiak should be back next season has officially shifted from "spirited" to "passionate." Personally, I'm of the mind that Kubes has brought this franchise an awfully long way and that his ouster would do more harm than good, though I reserve the right to change my mind as the season winds down.
Although there are undoubtedly countless nuances that go into evaluating a coach's performance, it ultimately comes down to wins and losses. Thus, at the risk of oversimplifying the situation, I'm putting up a poll. If you're Bob McNair, how many games do the Texans need to win over these last five (5) weeks to bring Gary Kubiak back for another season? Or have you already made up your mind? Vote and tell us why you voted the way you did in the Comments below.
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I voted for 4.
Because there wasn’t an option for 3 or 4. I honestly believe that even if McNair decides that Kubiak is not a right fit for the team, he’ll just let the Kubes contract expire.
It's a push for me...
I do think Kubes can guide the team around that corner of Mediocre and Playoffs.
I know I’ve kinda swayed to the Cowher talk, but I really just want a coach that is going to hold players accountable and not put up with some of the crap we see. In other words, I’m tired of Kubiak’s “It’s on me” post-game speech and want him to call some guys out. Dunta is a great example of a player who should be called out for bad play and ridiculousness (the shoes, the celebration on Sunday, etc).
I’d like to see Kubes have some fight in him, but unless he completely loses the team then he should get 1 more shot to get us to the playoffs (should we not make it this season).
I lean more towards having made up my mind
But, if the Texans win 5 to close out the season, then he would have won me back. He has demonstrated each year his shortcomings and this year when the team appears to have a playoff capable make-up, the team is playing undisciplined football and losing while committing some ridiculous person foul penalties in key situations; that on-field celebration also comes to mind for me; pass route mix-ups; an abnormal number of turnovers; dang, the list goes on. It has been a tough season to stay with Kubiak. I don’t care about that “It’s on me” stuff that he says after each loss. I look at the games and this team is not playing the way they are capable and I say, “It’s on him.”
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
For the record...
You’d never see Cowher or really ANY professional coach do that.
You guys want a coach to completely trash his players to the media? The same media that already wants you to fail, it would appear, so they can write about how silly you are, and how your team doesn’t belong in the same state as the beloved other team in the north portion?
Were he to do this, you would probably call him for being a chickenshit and throwing the players under the bus to save his own hide.
Have any of you ever been in a players meeting, or coaches meeting, or any meeting with Kubiak? If you havent, then for the love of God quit acting like you know what he does with the players or thinks about them. It’s speculative bullshit.
So many of you give me sad face. :(
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
See Below
My thoughts on the Colts game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tie0tz7jGDI&NR=1
My thoughts on the Texans playoff chances
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40mhBE5MpbA
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 2, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
You see coaches bench players.
Heck, Singletary forced his player to APOLOGIZE to the media. We’ve seen showboats and malcontents put on the bench.
I just said I wish Kubes would get off his sad comments, and show a little fire. I know we don’t have many players who deserve to be chewed out, but football is a passionate game and I don’t see anything from Kubes.
The reason why you want to see more fire from Kubiak
is because you want Coors Light to use one of his fired up press conferences on their commericals!
Agreed
I agree with TexansDC! He needs to call out players daunta’s sorry ass especially. I would like to see him pissed off and agressive towards these players and get in their face for once. That would make him a great coach worth keeping.alot of players get away with too much and they know they can get away with it. I dunno if I’m right or wrong but it jus seems like it to me. The only persons I see him get after are the refs. He needs to slap daunta that would be the shit then he would have my full support hahaha! Oh wuts up jordann! I got nothin but love for ya!
by Texan_4_life on Dec 2, 2009 4:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I guess I'm one of the minority that said 6
This team has the talent, he just needs to use it right. There are times where he’s too aggressive & won’t stop throwing the ball, & others when he goes too conservative & runs the ball over & over. My biggest knock on Kubiak is that he doesn’t show any killer instinct in his play calling. Over these last 5 games, he needs to stomp on everyone’s throats, make a playoff push, & show everyone you belong there by winning a game. Anything short of that, & he’s should be out the door. If he finishes 8-8 again, definitely give him the boot.
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
Also you should have put one more option
Super Bowl or Bust
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 2, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
I said two...
Kubiak’s departure would do more harm than good IMO. We have become a respectable football team since he arrived. We seem to be on the cusp of really being a good team, but I don’t think a coaching change is what gets us over the top. We (still) need a NT, CB, interior OL, and WLB.
Let him ride it out through another offseason of free agents and the draft.
All that said, if the Texans can’t win at least two more games this season, it may be an indication that the players aren’t playing for him anymore. If that’s the case, he’s got to go.
Only two ways...
If we win 4 or 5 games he will stay. That will give us a winning record. If we win 3 or less, he is a goner. Deep down I really believe it depends on which available coaches are interested in coaching here. I don’t think Cowher is really interested, he will use us as leverage, especially if the Carolina position opens up.
As for the rest of the games, I don’t believe we will win 4. I just don’t think we have it in us. If we beat Jax (which I don’t think we will) then we will most likely lose to one of the gimme games. Personally I am worried about facing Stephen Jackson and the Rams. I can see us losing to them. Same goes for the Dolphins. The only way we will beat the Pats is if they have nothing to play for. Sorry to be a downer, but I don’t see us finishing games. We have all the fire power in the world, but either the players make stupid mistakes or the play calling falls off the page at the worst possible time.
Koobs is a good dude.
I’m undecided at the moment. Right after those tough losses I feel like he should be fired, but then as I recover during the week I feel like he deserves one more year. I will just wait and see what they accomplish this season.
And I don’t understand why bringing in a new coach would mean re-building to people. Bringing in a new coach might improve the team, its not like the days where Koobs was trying to win with Mr. Mittens. There are holes on this team, but it is nowhere near as bad as the roster that Charlie Casserly left behind for Smithiak.
Off topic a little, but I like what Rick Smith has done as GM, and think he should be given another draft at least. If we decided to bring in a new coach, would that be the end of the Smith Era as well ?
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
I don't see Smith and Kubak as inseparable
Don’t know why they would be.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 2, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
Three
If we can maintain mediocrity, the risk of change (in the short term, likely negative) outweighs Kubiak’s occasional bouts of incompetence. If we have a losing season 7-9, McNair will probably have to fire him, if it’s 6-10, he will have to.
5 games
Win out and he can stay for his last year. We should beat the Jags, the Seahawks, the Rams, and the Dolphins. Should is the main word in that sentence. And he needs to beat the Patriots. For some reason we have this saying that we should beat such and such teams like I mentioned above (I’m guilty of saying it) but we need to win all of those games every time (and we haven’t done it this year or last year – remember the Raiders last year and the Tits this year and maybe the same could be said for the Jags) and the occasional one were not supposed to. We are 2-4 at home and 3-2 on the road. That sucks my friends and why does 7-9, 8-8, 8-8, and a possible 8-8 season again buy Kubes another year. I don’t think a 9-7 year should do it either. Win out and stay. We still can’t compete in our division and that’s not ok moving forward. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. Also, as frustrated as I am with coaching I’m disappointed in the teams play. McNair is right. The coaches don’t throw the interceptions, they don’t run block, the don’t get called for PI or false starts. The team lost the game against the Colts more so than the Coaches (IMO). I do feel for Kubes because you know he’s trying everything he can and the players are letting him down and they could be the biggest reason he gets run out of town. This team needs to step up and take more responsibility and quit letting their coach try and take up for them. Their performance in the second have was putrid. Schaub should take a lot of the blame as well as O-lineman who can’t stay onsides as well as Dunta and others that can’t tackle or cover a receiver. It’s unfortunate that this appears to be the way it will all play out. It doesn’t make it right, it just makes it what it is. I’m so confused about how I really feel about Kubes after writing this. F-ing Texans! But they’re still my team as dysfunctional as they are.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
You beat me to it Tim
I commented on Jake’s “I have a coach for now” post yesterday that Kubiak must go, but got no response and that thread somehow veered off topic. Driving home from work I figured a poll of this type was appropriate.
Kubiak is making the same basic mistakes that he made in his first year here. Poor clock management and weak play calling at crunch time are just two of his weaknesses. Yes the players must produce, and haven’t at crucial junctures lately, but coaches shape players. Kubiak and his staff have not successfully motivated this group to play up to their ability, much less challenge them to overachieve. I’ve seen enough. McNair should just eat the last year of Kubes contract and immediately start the search for HC3. A strong stretch run by the Texans would just delay the inevitavble and retard our progression to a top tier team.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 2, 2009 6:15 PM CST reply actions
I agree
About many of his flaws- but I don’t see an answer in the HC pool. If anything, I see us stumbling for a few years. He’s made a lot of progress, and I’m not ready to scratch that. At 6-10? Most definitely. 7-9? Maybe.
Take a look at Cleveland- do you think they’d be as awful as they are if they stuck with Romeo and Phil Savage? They had one bad year, but now it seems like they’re going to pay for it with 4-5 because they hauled off and decided to rebuild. I recognize it’s not a great analogy, but for the fire Kubiak crowd I guess the question is- then what?
You raise a valid point. There is great risk in regime change.
There are recent examples of changes bringing instant success. Jim Harbaugh took over a 5-11 Baltimore Ravens’ team last year, his 1st NFL HC gig, and went 11-5 with 2 playoff victories. They’re 6-5 right now and if the Texans were just one game better, at 6-5 we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Mike Smith inherited an Atlanta Falcons’ franchise in disarray coming off a 4-12 season. He also went 11-5 in his first season, and even though he lost in the WC round to Arizona, was named AP NFL Coach of the year. They too are 6-5 this season in the thick of the playoff hunt. Both of those cases were celebrated last year because of rookie HC’s paired with hugely successful rookie QB’s. Miami did well with Tony Sparano last year. From Wiki “A year after going 1–15, the Dolphins completed a turnaround under first-year coach Tony Sparano, joining the 1999 Indianapolis Colts as the only teams in NFL history to make 10-win improvements”. Denver seems headed in the right direction with 1st year, and 1st time HC, Josh McDaniels at the helm.
It is much easier to find cases like Cleveland though. All I am trying to point out is that the right man (or men as in HC/GM & coacing staff) can turn a team around in a hurry, and 4 years is long enough to know what you have. Comaprisons between Capers and Kubiak are fair, because both inherrited teams at the absolute bottom of the league. Capers was cut after 4 years and rightly so after the disaster that was the 2-14 2005 season. If Kubiak has had a major say into shaping the roster, then he definitely has done a better job than Dom. If, however, most of the credit for our current talent level goes to Rick Smith, then IMO Kubiak hasn’t done much better than Dom.
There are better coaches than Kubes out there. I am not claiming to be smart enough to tell you who they are. Rick Smith, or our GM to be, will have that information.
I’ve seen enough of Coach K.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
the interesting thing about those examples this year is it is highly likely the Ravens, Dolphins, and Falcons all miss the playoffs this year.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
You may be correct about all 3 of them missing the playoffs, but the current standings
do not support that it is “highly unlikely”. Had we remained in contention for a WC in 2007 or 2008 as long as those 3 teams will this year, or had we not lost our last 3 games, the consensus would be that Kubiak is a success. His record is what it is though, and it is mediocre.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
probably why you shouldnt call your horse before the race is over. Looking at the schedules its possible those 3 teams finish with a worse record than our ‘failure’ of a coach. My point was that people are too quick to point at someone elses short success without looking at whether it was the coach or the circumstances of that particular season.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
2007, once the Astros no longer mattered
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 3, 2009 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Again, had Kubiak had just one successful (i.e. playoff contending) season
in his 4 year tenure, whether or not he will be here in 2010 and beyond would not be in question. Our chances of making the playoffs this year are definable only mathematically; they are in reality much less than “highly unlikely”. Those 3 teams actually made the playoffs last year, and that earns their coaches credibility.
Schaub criticized the fans for leaving early last Sunday. That too was an unjustied judgment.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
you continue to completely miss the point I was trying to make.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
You're words are right there, and there's not that many of them
1) the interesting thing about those examples this year is it is highly likely the Ravens, Dolphins, and Falcons all miss the playoffs this year.
You’re calling them all one-year phenomena? Correct?
2) probably why you shouldnt call your horse before the race is over. Looking at the schedules its possible those 3 teams finish with a worse record than our ‘failure’ of a coach. My point was that people are too quick to point at someone elses short success without looking at whether it was the coach or the circumstances of that particular season.
You state that any judgement of Kubiak’s coaching ability at this juncture is premature. You say that I have called him a failure, and that we may end up with better records than last year’s one year playoff aberrations. You also suggest that those 3 teams had favorable circumstances that made major contributions to their success, and that their coaches were less important than the favorable circumstances.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
I would take it a step further for baltimore and the Broncos and say the new HCs were handed teams with favorable talent levels and this has helped.
I like our talent level right now
This team has underachieved. Perfect scenario for the infusion of a new perspective and fresh attitude that a different HC could provide. Now we just need to carefully select HC3 and playoffs here we come, and even if it is only for one of the next two years, I’ll “settle” for that. I think the vast majority of the fan base would too.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
In what way is that gaurenteed?
The next HC could be a total disaster. He could come in and totally botch things in ways that Kubiak has avoided. Assuming HC3 will get us to the playoffs just because they aren’t Kubes is a mistake.
I am leaning towards giving this regime another shot because the talent level has gone up every year, and would like to see if that can continue.
I wish it could be guaranteed, but unfortunately that's not the case
It is my gut feeling that we need a change. If Kubiak comes back next year, then I truly hope that I am wrong. I have been in Kubiak’s corner from day 1, but am no longer. Agree that the talent level has gone up each year, but I think Smith has more to do with that than Kubiak. If I am wrong on that point, all apologies to Coach K.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
Its hard to say
In baseball for example you know its the GM making the moves. Its usually a lot more nebulous in football. Keep in mind though that Smith wasn’t there for the Willaims Meco OD draft, and that Kubiak had a lot to do with bringing Smith in in the first place. Worst case scenario for me next year if we bring back Kubiak is we have another solid draft, finish 8-8 and hand the reigns over to someone who knows how to make use of that talent.
Right now I’m willing to give Kubes a past(if he finishes well this year) based on the feeling that we need to fill a couple more holes before I feel that he has enough talent to make it but just isn’t using it right. As it stands now I think its a mix of lack of talent at key positions and some poor coaching.
Fair enough
We must also consider that Kubiak was brought in and given time to work with and assess David Carr prior to the draft to which you referred and gave him the thumbs up. He may have been feeling undue pressure from Bob McNair, because McNair loved Carr, but great coaches make the tough calls. For whatever reason, he was wrong about Carr so for that alone I do not see him as a great talent evaluator.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions
I don’t think bringing back Carr was that bad of a decision. I have never been a big fan of drafting a QB when you have almost zero talent elsewhere. Its not like he gave Carr more then a year, and maybe he thought he could rehabilitate him.
Kubiak was not asked whether or not the Texans should bring back Carr for 2006
He was asked to evaluate whether or not Carr was capable of being a QB that could lead a team to a championship. Kubiak (possibly under duress) said yes. Carr was given an opportunity to play in Carolina and did not do well. He is fortunate to have a plumb position as the backup to Eli in NY. If Kubiak were correct, then clearly Carr would be a starter somewhere. Kubiak was wrong.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
Kubiak was wrong about Carr.
I’ll get back to you tomorrow.
But EVERYBODY was wrong Carr. Even great coaches and great talent evaluators make mistakes. But if the good ones trump the bad ones then those mistakes become irrelevant. Right now, Kubiak has made more mistakes overall than good. Not by a lot. Most of that is attributed to his inexperience.
Kubiak gave Carr a chance just like how he’s given the chance for other players to redeem themselves. Sometimes it pays off. Sometimes it doesn’t.
So because of the decision to keep Carr around for one year means he is a shitty talent evaluator who has no ability to ever evaluate talent ever again? I mean thats ONE decision, that you are assuming was solely influenced by Carr’s talent, and no other concerns about what else they needed in the draft. Perhaps Kubes looked at Leiner Young and Cutler and said k thx no and decided to wait a year and figured giving Carr a year wasn’t the worst option.
Of course no one is 100% right in personnel decisions
but at the time I felt that Kubiak being an ex-QB, and a pretty decent one at that, and a very experienced QB coach and OC, that his opinion of a QB’s potential ought to be as platinum-plated. He had 4 years of film to go over and worked with him one on one as well. I am still disappointed that he didn’t see Carr for what apparently is, a backup QB. It set us back.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 4, 2009 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Im not saying Kubiak shouldnt be judged, Im saying people put too much of the blame and the credit on the head coach. I was using those other teams are examples of how the same coach can have vastly different results because of the performance of his players from one year to the next, and some dare I say good luck when they needed it most. People boast that those coaches came in and turned those teams into good teams in 1 year, and Im merely disagreeing with that statement being 100% accurate, or that the coach gets the credit for it. I do think our team should be winning more by now, but I also think Kubiak has drastically increased the talent level on the team when he started, and I think he has made drastic improvement on having the team prepared for each game(vice maybe the Jet game). Now its coming down to the players failing to step up at the end of the game when they are in a position to make the big play.
I could see this turning into the Tampa Bay situation where Dungy builds a good team, and then Gruden comes in the next year and gets all the credit for taking them to the super bowl on someone elses work.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
The state of the Texans today is certainly better than the team that Kubiak inherited
He and Smith have worked together to build the most talented group of players in franchise history. I just don’t see the coaching staff getting the maximum performance out of our players. Just my opinion. That is why I see a change at the top being the right way to go. If hypothetical HC3 takes us to the Super Bowl with Smithiak’s roster, as you have suggested may happen, how bad would that be? I could think of much worse ways this situation could play out.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 4, 2009 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
If Schaub had to watch himself
throw away games, he wouldn’t criticize the fans. I sat there and watched the entire debacle, but I can’t fault people for leaving early, when the Texans didn’t show up and compete the 2nd half anyway.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
I had to leave after their 3rd string back shredded our D
That TD run was disgusting. Our players looked like they had given up on that play. I was sad. I left.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
If the Texans don’t show up for the second half why should the fans? Schaub really said that? After he pretty much blew the game for us – his 3 turnovers.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
Schaub was interviewed on 610AM
and criticized the fans who left early. I don’t have his exact words (I’m sure you can find it on sportsradio610.com). I did not hear the entire interview, just the sound bite where he blasted the fans. Big mistake IMO. He had a miserable 2nd half, and paying fans have the right to come late and leave early as they see fit. Personally I like getting in my seat early, and rarely leave early, but that game, the 4th quarter in particular, was tough to stomach.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a link to the page with the Schaub interview
http://www.sportsradio610.com/pages/151256.php
Just scroll down to Matt Schaub 11/30/09
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
Im going to say this AGAIN!!!...
You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink! How focused have the Texans been on taking that Drink? Kubiak led this team to the pond!!!… And the TEXANS wont drink the water… DONT BLAME COACH!!!
by bluezzball_sports on Dec 2, 2009 6:24 PM CST reply actions
but isn’t discipline part of the coaching regime? Not to mention that when a boneheaded penalty gets done he just looks irritated and lost, rather than pissed. Antonio Smith, back to back 15 yard penalties (and stupid ones at that), and he hasn’t done a thing about it? A head coach has to force his guys to be disciplined, if he wants them to stop the idiocy.
So, you want to fire him because of how he LOOKS on the sideline after a player fucks up??
You guys are awesome, I tell ya.
I sure hope I’m never on trial where some of you are in the jury box.
“Fucking hurry up and electricute the shit out of the poor bastard because this is taking too long!!”
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Yes, discipline is part of the coaching regime… But, a facial expression or yelling is not discipline. Its an expression of dissatisfaction!… benching a player for his continuous fumbling of the ball…along with the coaching staff taking the initiative to teach that player to carry the ball in a safer manner is!!! And hopefully that player will focus on that drink of water!!!
by bluezzball_sports on Dec 2, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
Kubiak can't help that a lot of his players are losers.
When it comes down to it, there are people that hit kicks at the end of a game, or that hold on to the football, or that jump for an extra yard in a game that was locked up and then flip sideways and drop the ball, etc, and there are people that don’t. Bluezzball is kind of right, there is only so many times that we can be in a position to do something and then crap out.
That said, games like last week’s when we were killing it, and then forgot to show up in the second half, that has to go on the coaches shoulders. At 7-9, I’m willing to give him another shot, though I’m not convinced that the organization is.
I really do hate to be this guy, but...
People are also forgetting about a certain 43 yard penalty where there was no foul. Those kinda hurt a team. I hate when people blame the refs, but damn, that stung.
I suppose that was Kubes fault though. fuggin moron.
If anything Jim Caldwell should be blamed for running that route on Reeves, when obviously, if they wanted an actual penalty commited, they’d have run it on 23. Got luck, I rectum.
Good comment, BC! Thank you!
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Flash forward...
I have a feeling McNair will monitor the availability of potential candidates (Fisher,Cowher or Dungy?) through the next couple of seasons.
Until then the Smushiak regime will be given full support by the owner.
Conspiracy watch: I also think that some of the players are doing half-hearted ass efforts this season because of the way Texans FO are handling/handled contract negotiations.
-(Sgd.) Oliver Stone
TO!
Wanna play catch?
There’s a lot of big name coaches available this off-season. Even if McNair decides that Kubiak is not the right man for the job, I think he’ll let Kubes stay for one more year to finish his contract and use next year to look for a coach that’s right for the job
Bring Him Back
I say bring him back for another year regardless what happens. It sucks that we have lost so many close games and important ones. It takes some doing to learn how to win and close out games. Kubes is taking us in the right the direction one more to get there is fair.
If you aint Texans then F@!# You!!!!
Until proven otherwise...
I think Kubiak returns for the final year of his contract, no matter how the season pans out from here.
I don’t think our heartbreaks are over for the year, I believe this team has one more tease up it’s sleeve and that tease will keep the koob around.
GO TEXANS!!!!
This is the year.......
my opinion
is that Kubiak was such a huge lift from what we had, there was sort of a reverence factor for pulling us from the bottom of the pile. He is not however, a great head coach. If he was our offensive coordinator i’d be thrilled but I don’t see him taking a pay-cut unless its to go coach for Shanahan when/If he comes back. Over appreciated offensive genius who’s welcome is running out unless he gives the fans something better. needs 4 wins to reach 9-5. That’s his mark. If he manages that tho, he pretty much HAS to make the playoffs the year following and until Peyton retires, it will be no easy feat.
Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!
How is Kubiak responsible for.....
personel fouls or stupid drive ending penlities? He doesn’t coach the players to interfer with receivers or take cheap shots so how are those his fault? Barring a complete collapse of the team from here on out, Kubiak will be here next year.
Win "big" this weekend
A win this weekend should enable Kubiak to keep his job!
MrMr
Re: Win Big
Shortsighted or not, a win on Sunday would go a long way toward calling the dogs off.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 3, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
considering we’ve never had a winning season, if he gets 9 wins, not only does he stay, he probably gets extended. I think 8-8 and he stays next year as well. Im pretty pro Kubiak because I think the young players have let him down when he needed them most, but I think he needs to produce not only a winning season but a playoff seed next season or I would have to agree with McNair not to renew his contract.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
I Tend To Agree
8-8 probably buys Kubiak one more year, but it’d be playoffs-or-bust for him in ’10.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Dec 3, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
5
I think 9-7 is a failure. This team should have finished the year at 11-5. There were just too many games that they should have won that were pissed away with boneheaded mistakes and poor play calling, like throwing the ball on third and 1. This team should be going to the playoffs but they won’t. 8-8 or 9-7 is mediocre, I don’t see how after 8 years that is acceptable.
lol this is what gets me about fans. People complained when we tried to run it and get that 1 yard, and people complain if we throw it on 3rd and 1. He’s damned if he does, damned if he doesnt with this fan base. How can 9-7 be a failure when it would be the best finish in history? Thats just ridiculous.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
I think finishing 8-8 back to back years fooled a lot of people into thinking we had more talent then we really did.
oh the talent is there, its just the experience and winning mentality they need to develop.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
Perhaps I should have said that in reverse. We do have alot of talent on this team. We also have absolutely gaping holes too. Yes no team is going to have a pro bowler at every position, but winning teams rarely have as many gaping holes as us. No NT, no #1 CB, zero depth in our secondary, and our entire interior O-line. So we can’t stop #1 recievers, we can’t put enough pressure up the middle, and we can’t run the ball. These are killers.
Because, 9-7,8-8,7-9 gets you about the same, sitting at home watching everbody else. I just love the everybody should get a trophy loser mentality of some fans. The team itself seems to take the same approach, I guess it has rubbed off on alot of fans as well. If the Colts, Steelers and Patriots wouldn’t find this acceptable why should you?
by TexanFanInCali on Dec 3, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Im not sure I understand your comparison, please cite an example of when the Colts, Steelers, or Patriots went 9-7 and then fired their coach. The closest I can think of was when Pete Carroll got fired after missing the playoffs at 8- 8 AFTER he took over a super bowl team that Bill Parcels built. Gary Kubiak took over a 2-14 no talent team. So Im not understanding the comparison.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
Schottenheimer went 14-2 & got fired by the Chargers for losing in the first round
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 3, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
he didnt mention the Chargers did he? And the coach that replaced him didnt do any better so it wasnt the smartest decision now was it?
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
I think he did Goat. I think he did mention the Chargers.
It’s not the best example but it’s definitely something that can happen to Kubiak.
Schotty got fired as much because he and the GM didn’t get along as anything else.
by nolander on Dec 4, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
just win out man. playoffs or not, just win out and you’re our coach for one more season
The Dude Abides
by battle axe of doom on Dec 3, 2009 10:21 AM CST reply actions
The point I’m trying to get across is, is those other teams expect to get to the playoffs every year and an 8-8 season every year wouldn’t cut it, so shouldn’t you as a fan want more than a mediocre season. If we go 8-8 again do we hang on another year and hope it gets better? Hell what if we go 5-11 next year wouldn’t you be pissed and say we should have gotten rid of him last year? Remember 2004 when we went 7-9 and thought we had finally turned the corner? 2005 (drum roll please) a team worst, 2-14! If they do keep him I hope you’re right DaGoaT. As you can tell from my name I am from Cal and have never been to Texas,I pay almost $300 a season for NFL Sunday Ticket only to turn off my TV half way through the games because if I didn’t everthing in my house would be broken. At this point I just expect more.
Just curious. Why are you a Texan fan if you've never been to Texas?
I’m from the Houston area, lived in Cali from ‘74 to ’84 and loved the weather, but maintained my allegiance to Texas’ sports teams. Those Kareem-Magic Lakers were fun to watch though.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
I'll explain
I am from northern Cal and I do not like the 49ers and I used to be a Raider fan but got tired of Al Davis screwing up the franchise, especially when he let Gruden go. I got to the point where I didn’t watch football and was looking for a team to root for and latched on to Houston in 2003. I could have been a bandwagon and started rooting for the Steelers, couldn’t do that because being a former Raider fan, I hate the Steelers. I am an AFC guy and BTW I can’t stand the Cowboys either. That being said it shouldn’t matter why I root for them, it’s because I chose to. I have never seen anyone in my area with Texans shirts or hats on so I am an oddball, but you definitly can’t call me a bandwagon. This is my opinion and I appreciate your guy’s as well. I guess we see things a little different, but that’s ok.
by TexanFanInCali on Dec 3, 2009 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Welcome Cali.
Thanks for holding it down for the Texans out there. As long as you hate the Cowboys you are a good dude, in my book.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
All you need now is to aim that hatred toward the rest of our division
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 3, 2009 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
I am almost complete
Up until this year started I didn’t really seem to care, but now I can honestly say I have a hatred for the Colts and the Titans and depending on how this weekend goes it could be all three by then. I loved the sideline brawl with the Titans, it was about time. I finally saw some emotion that was long over due. We shouldn’t be a doormat for anyone. Time to kick some ass!
by TexanFanInCali on Dec 3, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
I hate the tits because of the players on the field, and I dislike the colts at this point because of the absurdity that is their fan base playing the Rodney Dangerfield act.
by nolander on Dec 3, 2009 3:14 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You hate the Cowboys and the Steelers too
You have two things in common with all real Oiler-Texan fans. Glad to have your support. I can truly appreciate your disdain with Al Davis. That guy is the poster boy for bad owner messing up a once awesome franchise.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Hell, did you see Jim Rome Is Burning today?
On his Final Burn, he talked about Raiders fans paid for a billboard that said “Mr. Davis, Please Hire A GM, from Raiders Fans”
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 3, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions
Yup, I saw that yesterday. But not on rome though.
Looking at the Raiders makes me realize how blessed we are to have McNair.
I'm in a similar boat, but from the south of Cali.
It was about 2000/2001 that I started following football closely. Raiders and Chargers are basically the same in terms of team attitude and fans, the major difference is the wardrobe. So that was right out. Instead I said hey theres a new team in the league it would make a lot of sense to root for them. That first game against the Cowboys cemented my fandom.
Its Sad....
But that first game was the most fun I’ve had in the 7+ years of watching the Texans. Reliant was almost close in atmosphere during the Monday night games, but nothing has ever sounded like the stadium did, when Mittens beat the Cowboys in his NFL debut.
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Happy Now Tits?
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I think that game has a lot to do with how much I love football to this day, not just the Texans. sigh Know I want to rewatch it.
I keep a VCR in my house.
Just so I can watch that game from time to time, helps after a soul-crushing defeat. And there have been many of those in our short history.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Soul-crushing, that's exactly what those last 2 games were
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Dec 3, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
Don't you mean 3?
Both losses to the Colts & the Titans loss were pretty bad, all three in a row.
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 3, 2009 11:37 PM CST up reply actions
NFL Red Zone channel 'curse'
There have been plenty of close losses which I have been able to witness for the first time here in WA thanks to the channel. It awesome getting to see nearly every TD and score live, but man it has been bitter-sweet as a Texans fan… seeing us fumble at the goal line, TWICE, both live, was especially tormenting…
Tell me about it.
That was my first Texans game.
Whatever happened to Billy Miller anyway? I remember him scoring that touchdown and i thought that he had a bright future in this league.
Rome wasn't built in a day
You realize that most new sports teams take years to build up to their first playoff appearance right? The waiting is frustrating, the toil is frustrating, but just the fact that we’ve seen significant forward momentum in the first decade of the team’s existence is very encouraging.
Sure, maybe it could have been done sooner. On the other hand, how easy is it for a terrible team to get mired in being terrible? Look at some of the dismal sports franchises out there. I’m sure you can come up with plenty.
As long as the forward momentum continues, I think Kubiak keeps his job. That means he needs a winning record this year. 9-7. That also means he needs 10-6 and/or a playoff berth next season, by the way.
The Panthers were.
Also the JAGS made the playoffs 4 consecutive years after their first year as an expansion club. I don’t think anyone here is asking for a superbowl but for Gods sake 8 years is plenty of time to have built either A) A team capable of competing in their division B) A team capable of having at least ONE winning season or C) A CHANCE at the playoffs or an appearance in one. I understand the point your trying to make but I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired. I mean really, that’s what your going to use to justify our lack of success. Others have been able to do it and we’ve had 8 freaking years and don’t even have one winning season. That’s why some people on here are mad, disappointed and fed up with how this organization has progressed (or lack thereof). So please try to understand why so many of us are tired of the same excuses year after year.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
I know they've made the playoffs before...
…but the new Browns are a joke.
Why have the Texans not progressed? Look at the drafts from 2002 – 2005. Small handful of players who are still Texans. A few more still play in the NFL. That 1st regime really didn’t know what they were doing. When you can’t draft well then you don’t play well.
Talk about nearly instant gratification
Both the Panthers & Jags made it to their respective Conference Championships Games in their second season of play.
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Dec 3, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
keep in mind how different the expansion rules were for those 2 teams, so much so that they were changed before the new browns and texans teams because the owners thought it gave the expansion teams too much of an advantage based on Carolina and Jacksonville.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
The Panthers and Jags got extra draft picks.
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Happy Now Tits?
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I'm glad we didn't have those picks.
Looking at who we drafted in 2002, I’m certain it only woulda got worse.
Thank you!
That’s the exact point I was trying to make, those are 2 teams that didn’t have to wait forever to make the playoffs. I am not asking for a super bowl ring either, just get to the playoffs. As a fan I don’t think it is unrealistic to think they should have or should be going to the playoffs. The team has plenty of talent which means their failures has alot to do with coaching.
by TexanFanInCali on Dec 4, 2009 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
For as much talent they have they also have far more gaping holes I think then most of the other teams who will probably make the playoffs. How bad has/will be our safety play without Pollard and Wilson? How little have we actually gotten out of NT? No corner who can cover a number one? Our entire interior O-line? These are things that can completely negate the rest of the talent on the field, just look at our early losses where our safety play handed long running tds away like candy, or our inability to get in from the goal line becuase our line got pushed back instead of pusing forward.
Its a TEAM game, having talent at most positions but complete crap at others will still lose you games.
We add up to a SportsCenter team right now...
In that, we have some great talent that can provide SportsCenter highlinghts… both for us, and for the teams we play.
This team is still not talented enough throughout, to seriously compete in this division/conference.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
too me it comes down to the building blocks of great teams. The linemen. Both offensively and defensively we are poor on the line. Good offenses and defenses always start up front. Your skill players cant shine if the linemen dont do they jobs.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
Which is exactly where Capersly failed so miserably.
Not to mention that their first pick was a QB that held the ball too long, and had trouble making quick reads.
It’s just a shame that, although I have to assume Capers knew this, it didn’t get relayed confirmed and re-confirmed with Charley, up top.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Looking at that rookie class, drafting a QB was the wrong move in general.
Only 1 QB out of that class is starting anywhere.
4th round pick – David Garrard of Jacksonville.
I am torn on exactly how I feel. While I stand behind what I said, the last game we played showed how our players failed the coaches and not the other way around. I would almost go as far to say that they players are the MAIN reason for us being where we are and not the coaches. The first game of the season was on the coaching staff not being prepared but that might be it. We do have talent don’t get me wrong but these guys don’t know how to win and they at times seem beat way before he game is over with last week being the prime example. They looked like they had already lost the game in the 3rd Q even when they were ahead. Neither of these things is right but in my opinion that doesn’t mean as an owner or as a fan you just sit there and take it. The way it’s been going doesn’t look like things will change and we will continue to chase mediocrity as a team and organization. If the players wont play for Kubes then something has to be done and that means getting rid of players and coaches. The players can like Kubes all day long but they aren’t helping him out and THEY will be the reason for his departure. This team is not ready to be winners.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
do you realize how long the Patriots sucked before their recent success? Or the Colts? So its hard to say they ‘dont tolerate’ that kind of situation the texans are in because they did for many years, recently none of their coaches have been in a situation like the Texans so obviously their expectations are higher. People act like its some sort of great injustice that we arent in a super bowl yet, while it would be nice to be a playoff contender at this point, and should be possible, This team didnt bring 40 years of mediocrity with it, the city had that already. We have become way too impatient because of the disappointments and failures of a previous organization.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
last I checked...
There are 32 teams in the NFL. I completely agree with DaGoaT in the sense that we can’t expect to be a super bowl contender every year. There are 31 other franchises that are trying to do the exact same thing. Is every team that doesn’t make it to the super bowl a failure? I, for one, enjoy watching Texans’ games because they are Texans’ games. Even when we lose, it’s still fun to watch Schaub throw to AJ, or Pollard or Cushing go all Bobby Boucher on someone and rip their head off. Would it be nice for them to make the playoffs/super bowl, etc? Of course. But I’m not ready to run the coach out of town and quit being a fan of the team if they don’t.
by Barrett on Dec 3, 2009 1:49 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I picked 3, but...
If we lose either the Seattle or St. Louis games, I think he may be toast. Regardless of final record.
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Agreed on the St. Louis or Seattle point.
I have a feeling that we will lose one of those two
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would definitely be a mistake to fire him.
He might not be the one to take the team to the SB but firing him when they are this close to being a contender and given how young the team is? not good.
One more year. Even if he fails, the team will still be young enough to not go into panic mode.
Expecations
will be what gets him fired. Expectations not only from the fans, the owner, but also the rest of the league/country. Plenty of people/publications had the Texans getting their first winning season AND making the playoffs. If that doesn’t happen, then the expectation will be that the Texans will have a new coach come next year. I picked 5, because unless we finish 10-6 by willing on out, I honestly don’t think we’ll make the playoffs. And when you think about it, what loss would be acceptable? Lose to JAX this weekend, and there go our playoff chances… lose to any of the mediocre teams till New England (SEA, STL, and MIA) and where does that leave us? Even the Pats would be a tough loss, given the fact we’ll be fighting for a wild-card, and they’ll probably be set and resting players. So it’s gotta be 10-6 to even have a chance to make the playoffs. Winning 5 in a row would show Kubiak CAN step up… anything else and he’s status quo IMO.
Im not sure why people think the Pats would be resting their players. Most likely they will be battling for that 2 seed and trying to get a first round bye.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
Agreed 100%
They’re not going to be 16-0 this season and will be fighting for their life. Last year they went 11-5 and didn’t make it and I’m sure they remember that.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
If they beat MIA...
…New England opens up a 2 game lead on the division. They’re also behind on a bye week. So by week 17…things COULD be settled for them. It really depends on how things play out from this Sunday through week 16.
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