The Alex Gibbs Zone Run Scheme

by distant_texans_fan on Dec 20, 2009 3:18 PM CST

Does anyone else think that maybe its not just that we have two injured guards and an injured starting RB (that can't hold the ball) that is to blame for a bad running game.

I know those things haven't helped, along with having Chris Brown on the roster, the multiple players with multiple fumbles. The playcalling in general...

But what about the scheme.

The Alex Gibbs scheme has been around for a while (NFL career - 25 years), mostly perfected in the nine years he has spent at Denver (1995-2003). While we had success with it last year, I think we had too much of a good thing.

Opposing teams have had a years worth of Steve Slaton highlights to pick apart our zone-blocking and now our secod year is too similar. Without some sort of variation, our running game has become too predictable and too easy to stop.

Has Alex Gibbs had his day and is it time for him to move on?

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Disagree

Alex Gibbs best years running the ball weren’t produced with cast-offs. It’s just that you can make do with cast-offs

by kozanack on Dec 20, 2009 3:45 PM CST reply actions

Disagree.

We’re pretty thin at offensive line. We lost our best back who was not having a great season.

No system will ever work if you have guys like Chris Myers and Chris Brown in them.

by TexansDC on Dec 20, 2009 4:51 PM CST reply actions

No doubt the personnel currently playing

can’t execute the ZBS effectively. But, you know, run blocking is only half of the equation. Pass blocking is another facet that this O-line has been effective at, enough for Schaub to have his career year. So, what is the answer?

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Dec 20, 2009 6:01 PM CST reply actions

I think the main problem wih the Gibbs zone blocking run game is that it DOESNT FKING WORK APPARENTLY.

There, I feel better.

Oh and everyone who said we shouldn’t try and get Larry Johnson because he has a bad attitude can suck my nuts.

Go Whiskey!

"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related

by TexansForever on Dec 20, 2009 6:52 PM CST reply actions

He beats women. It worked last year.

by nolander on Dec 20, 2009 8:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

I think they said he was a bad person, to put it nicely

I think he is too, but I was willing to overlook that for the rest of the season to see if he could help get the Texans into the playoffs.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Dec 20, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions

What about the fact that he's washed up and not very good?

Should that factor into the decision at all?

Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.

by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 21, 2009 11:15 AM CST up reply actions

ya I guess the hundred yards he put up in his first start for the Bengals is not much better than what we have now.

I mean seriously….why would we want a guy who is averaging 4.7 yards a carry since leavinng Kansas City.

It’s easy to hate Johnson for being a douchebag in his personal life, but on the field he still has it. Knasas City was a shithole for him the last few years, it was obvious he nedded a change of pace. And what do you know, in the only game where he was the featured back for the Bengal he rushes for 107 yards on 22 carries.

We can’t get 107 yards on 30 carries.

"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related

by TexansForever on Dec 21, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions

Yes, clearly that has nothing to do with the Bengals O-Line

And everything to do with Johnson.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Dec 21, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions

LJ is an obvious upgrade over our existing backs.

He gives us a power running ability that we need because with no holes, you need a back who can create them.

"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related

by TexansForever on Dec 21, 2009 2:34 PM CST up reply actions

He already had no holes. In Kansas City.

He sucked. That is why he is not here now.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Dec 21, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions

My opinion but I believe he "sucked" in KC because he hated being there. There were obvious issues between him and management.

"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related

by TexansForever on Dec 21, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions

He didn't fumble in KC did he?

by TexansDC on Dec 21, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions

Oh

We can fix that problem for him right quick. He’ll be fumbling in no time.

Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.

by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 21, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions

Chick Harris does good work.

by TexansDC on Dec 21, 2009 10:47 PM CST up reply actions

Seriously

Losing our two starting guards when we have none in reserve roles with much experience in the NFL, and having trouble with Slaton and our other backs producing without coughing the ball up is a large part of why are running game isn’t working. You can say it’s the scheme that’s broken and not the players, but the scheme has been proven to be effective in the past, our backup guards/running backs have not.

by Bryan72076 on Dec 20, 2009 11:35 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

The scheme has been proven effective in the past, but so was the single wing at one point.

I suspect that it’s beginning to outlive its usefulness. Not to put too fine a point on it, I don’t believe you can win a Super Bowl using the ZBS. It’s inevitable that somewhere down the line you’re going to run into a team that employs someone like Kris Jenkins, and those guys eat the ZBS for lunch. I think you can still win games using the ZBS and even make the playoffs, but it would take something phenomenal to actually go all the way using an exclusive zone blocking scheme.

Furthermore, I think there’s evidence that the ZBS has rapidly outlived its usefulness as a run-blocking scheme. Look at our team. Sure, we’re fielding second- and third- stringers left and right because of injuries. But so were the Rams, and we still couldn’t get anything going on the ground. At the same time, however, we had no problems pass-blocking whatsoever. That’s been the story of this season – we’re fine at pass-blocking, but complete ass at run-blocking. With the exact same personnel.

Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.

by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 21, 2009 11:14 AM CST up reply actions

before I bust your balls too much, you are aware that Denver won two super bowls right? Or are you speaking in a future tense kind of way?

Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed

by DaGoaT on Dec 21, 2009 11:34 AM CST up reply actions

I think he is talking about a future tense.

I was trying to say much the same thing myself. Its been around far to long for someone not to be able to figure out how to stop it.

by distant_texans_fan on Dec 21, 2009 12:16 PM CST up reply actions

thats like saying the west coast offense has been around too long for ppl not to stop it. Any tactic can be stopped on any given sunday, thats not saying that tactic cant work over the course of 16 games.

Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed

by DaGoaT on Dec 21, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions

I think variations will work

And certainly when mixed in with other looks and plays.

But you can’t win a game if you play out of the Wildcat, West Coast or only Zone Block when you run.

It needs to be mixed up more.

by distant_texans_fan on Dec 21, 2009 1:00 PM CST up reply actions

But it's not sixteen games we're talking about

It’s twenty, or whatever it takes to win a Super Bowl. I have no doubt that you can have winning records using the ZBS. But I equally doubt that you can win the Super Bowl with it, because eventually you’re going to run into a very good 3-4 defense with The Incredible Hulk at NT. And then you will have your hands full.

Used to be teams won games with the Veer, Single Wing, Wishbone, Run n Shoot, etc. Nowadays you can’t, because the game has evolved. The same is true of the West Coast offense. It’s still good, but teams that feature this offense don’t roll over other teams like they used to because defenses have adjusted.

Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.

by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 21, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions

Denver won those titles over ten years ago

There’s a lot that’s changed about the NFL since then. Over the years, teams have discovered some pretty clear weaknesses in the ZBS, typically involving suiting the Empire State Building up to play nose tackle. If you want to win the Super Bowl, you’re more than likely to run into a team that does exactly that. It’s a big hurdle to overcome, having your light, athletic center consistently get thrown into the backfield by sasquatch.

Proudly supporting the Qatar National Falconry Team since December 6, 2009.

by tehGrindCrusher on Dec 21, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions

The Texans need THAT guy!

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Dec 21, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions

it worked

One year ago. ONE.

by nolander on Dec 21, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions

Yep, One year ago, for one year

Now that the opposition teams have had sixteen games of ZBS runs to look at and eight months to look at those sixteen games, have we done all that we can?

Is it just that the players have tells and they are giving it away, is it the scheme itself or is it and awesome scheme, but players forgot how it worked over the off season?

by distant_texans_fan on Dec 21, 2009 6:44 PM CST up reply actions

Look at the people in the scheme.

Chris Myers is our center. He’s making all the calls for our offensive line. He’s also flanked by 2 guys who weren’t our opening day starters.

Look in the backfield. Steve Slaton has not had a good year. Personally, I think the 15-20 pounds he put on slowed him down a tad. Plus he couldn’t hold onto the ball. Moats has looked good, but fumbles. Then there’s Chris freaking Brown…nuff said.

No scheme can work with 2 backups, Chris Myers, and Chris Brown.

by TexansDC on Dec 21, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions

The scheme isnt anything new, its not like defenses just learned this year how to play it. Our success last year is proof that the scheme can be effective, you gotta blame the personnel not completely their assignments.

Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed

by DaGoaT on Dec 21, 2009 8:11 AM CST reply actions