Owen Daniels - Maybe not a system player?

by DaGoaT on Dec 7, 2009 9:19 AM CST

There have been discussions in the past when Daniels was upset about his contract that OD could just be a product of our favorable passing offense, and that if he left he wouldnt have as much success and our Offense could replace him. Owen was having a fantastic year in his play for a better contract this year before getting hurt in the 1st quarter against Buffalo in week 8. After he was lost for the season, though it was thought to be a blow, alot of us though it was a chance to see a combination of the gifted Casey and Dressen fill the production of Daniels at the position. So here we sit, 5 games after Daniels got injured. Has the system filled the production of Owen Daniels? As Im sure your own eyes have shown you, the numbers also say NO. Not even close.

Through 7 games Owen Daniels had 39 catches for 497 yards and 5 TDs. Thats 12.7 YPC and averaging almost 6 catches a game and 71 yards.

Through the next 5 games the Casey and Dressen have COMBINED for 11 catches for 124 yards and 0 TDs. Thats averaging 11.2 YPC and 2.2 catches a game for 24.8 yards per game.

Thats a pretty big drop off. So maybe OD is alot more talented than we give him credit for and is worth the money he wants. While the knee injury leaves some risk, I think we need to pay da man. If next year is an uncapped year, then OD would be a RFA again. So I say pay him the highest tender again, if he comes back strong, extend him for a top 5 deal DURING the season. Dont wait until the end of the year, send a message.

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As much as I agree with you

you have to take into to consideration the fact that Daniels was targeted much more than Dreesen/Casey/Hill.

So there’s basically a trust issue here. Shanahan/Kubiak are much more likely to pick up the slack whenever a major target like Daniels went down with other known reliable pass receivers such as Andre and Walter.

Take this weeks game for example vs Jacksonville.

Andre Johnson was targeted 17 times and Walter was targeted 6 for a combined 23 pass attempts.

Dreesen was targeted 1 time and Casey 0.

"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Artest4Prez on Dec 7, 2009 9:47 AM CST reply actions

I can't say anyone is off-base here

OD is a helluva player and there is a natural drop-off between him and the TE’s stepping and it is due to a number of reasons: a big reason is because of the trust issue, the coach is going to try to spread the lost offensive production over a number of players; another reason is familiarity with the offense, the players filling in don’t have the practice time with the starting offense that OD had, so timing and being in the right place at the right time won’t be there; and, yes, fit-wise, OD fits right in with this offensive scheme, and it will take several seasons of equivalent playing time for a player of equal talent to get to the level of execution that OD had before he went down. There is so much that goes into getting a player to his performance level. There are greater physically gifted TE’s in this league than OD, but he put in the time and work to get to where he was and his production surpassed them all this season. You can never expect to plug-in another player and immediately get what he gave you.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Dec 7, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions

So you're telling me

That Owen Daniels is better in the passing game than a 5th round rookie TE and a journeyman much better known for his blocking? Wow! I’m stunned.

Owen Daniels is not a system player, he just can’t block. That doesn’t mean he’s not worthy of a big contract if he comes back healthy.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Dec 7, 2009 10:31 AM CST reply actions 1 recs

As I look through a list of Super Bowl Champions...

…I find it hard to see a champion that won because of a TE.

Teams win because of QB play, because of super-star Trios (QB, RB, WR), because of a dominant OL, because of a dominant defense….

TEs play somewhat of a role, but not a role like people are making out for Owen Daniels. If we’re losing because we lost a TE then the problems run deeper on this team than what we know.

by TexansDC on Dec 7, 2009 1:42 PM CST reply actions

Excerpt from a post I never finished (re: trading Owen for picks):

2. He’s a very good TE. Great, good for him. That’s probably why someone is conceivably willing to break the bank for him. But of the five best TEs over the last decade (Gonzalez, Gates, Shockey, Witten, Winslow), how many have won a Super Bowl? Only Shockey’s team. And he played NO role whatsoever in that win. None. It was Kevin Boss (an unknown 5th round pick) who played in that entire postseason for NY. The best TE to win a Super Bowl in the last 10 years was easily Shannon Sharpe. While Sharpe was one of the top 5 TEs ever, he was past his prime in 2000 (32 years old) and you are nuts if you think Ozzie Newsome wouldn’t have taken a 2d and 3d for him on January 29, 2001. The other starting pass-catching TEs to win Super Bowls in that span: Roland Williams (STL), Jermaine Wiggins (NE 2001), Ken Dilger (TB), Christian Fauria (NE 2003), Daniel Graham (NE 2004), Heath Miller (PIT 2005), and Matt Spaeth (2008)2. Taking it a step further, the total regular season catches (and TDs) for each of those guys (including Sharpe and Boss) in their Super Bowl years, in order: 25(6), 67(5), 14(4), 34(2), 28(2), 30(7), 39(6), 9(2), 17(0). You’ll forgive me if I don’t think an all-world TE is all that important in winning a Super Bowl, especially if, like St. Louis and New England, you have an efficient and productive offensive system.

Yay, sports.

by MDC on Dec 9, 2009 10:57 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs

That's a great post.

Kudos sir.

by TexansDC on Dec 9, 2009 11:16 AM CST up reply actions

but he's our VY

he just wins.

And we just lose without him.

Smushiak will take us to the playoffs in 2009.

by texanphil on Dec 9, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions

Ironic how

you’re talking about Shockey playing no role whatsoever in that superbowl win with the NO all caps. And this season, he’s playing for NO.

It’s not ironic? It’s just a mere coincidence? And it doesn’t really mean anything?

What’s that? Im just bored?

Oh, okay.

by Jordann on Dec 11, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions

We haven't won since OD got hurt ?

Fuck !

I think he is more important to this team than I gave him credit for.

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by CFHTim on Dec 7, 2009 2:00 PM CST reply actions

OD vs. Dreesen/Casey

Dreesen and Casey simply don’t get the separation that OD does. Who knows, that could change as Casey learns the ropes, but that’s where it stands now.

by kozanack on Dec 7, 2009 9:55 PM CST reply actions