Owen Daniels Headaches Continue

by Jake on Jun 15, 2009 3:18 PM CDT in News Comment 19 comments

Owen Daniels is still skipping the Texans' mandatory mini-camp despite signing his one-year RFA tender yesterday. He has to know that he has little to no leverage at this point, so I assume this is just a way to show his frustrations. I don't know how much money the Texans are allowed to fine OD for his protest, or if they'll even decide to take some money from him. I wouldn't be shocked either way, but this soap opera is starting to get annoying and receiving national attention. Hopefully, this is resolved one way or another soon.

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His facebook..

status has him saying basically, “I hope we get something done soon”. I’m tempted to tell him Dude get over yourself and get ready for some football.

GO TEXANS!!!!

This is the year.......

by Texanmaniac on Jun 15, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If you haven't seen Eric Winston's Comments..

On Paul Kuharsky’s blog, check them out here:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-10-75/Might-hovering-contract-issues-distract-Texans-.html

The true test in the life of a Texans fan is how gracefully you endure it.

by TexanKurt on Jun 15, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

So who gets the bigger deal this offseason?

DeMeco or Cushing?

by WhiskeyR on Jun 15, 2009 5:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

dildos

all these doldos holding out and missing camp need to man the hell up and take thier measley multi-million dollar paychecks and “play” some football. makes me sick to my bowels. and PLEASE no one give me the “they have a right to negotiate what they are worth” To me they are’nt worth the feces ridden gum on the bottom of my shoe.

Rumplestiltskin

by jahunter221 on Jun 15, 2009 7:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Dude

Tell us how you really feel.

You know... for kids.

by Jake on Jun 15, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tough contract negotiations, holdouts, etc. are supposed to be consequences of success

Someone needs to tell the Texans that they haven’t done anything yet. A couple of 8-8 seasons is no reason to celebrate, much less hold out for contracts that are the highest in the league. Of the three players in question, only DeMeco is a legitimate pro bowler. Dunta is not a top CB, OD got to the Pro Bowl as an alternate and is an excellent player, but he’s not the best TE in the league. DeMeco is the real deal and if only one gets paid what he thinks he’s worth, I want it to be him.

If Johnny Mac’s figures are accurate, then there is absolutely no good reason that Dunta and OD are not in camp. This mindset of “I gotta be the highest paid player in the league at my position” is a bunch of shit. I’m about sick of it at this point. The greed in pro sports has alienated a lot of baby boomers over the past 10-15 years, and our Texans are rapidly turning into the poster boys for that exact thing.

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Jun 15, 2009 9:31 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs

Ummmm

Rec’d. Could not have possibly said it better.

So you're saying that now I have to think of some witty Sig that will be applicable across all the SBN sites? Go Texan Horn Stro Kets!

by Shake on Jun 15, 2009 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks man

Just had to vent a little. I’d much rather discuss how the coaching staff is going to utilize our ever growing array of talented warriors than this contract crap. Hopefully all this stufff will be over soon, cuz I’m ready for some football.

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Jun 16, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let me play Devil's advocate here...

I hate high paid athletes bitching about getting paid as much as the next guy. I am a college student who will be struggling to pay off college loans for quite sometime so don’t get me wrong when I say quit bitching to them…BUT…

You have to lay some blame on the Texans management for not getting these guys signed to their deals. Dunta..screw him I could care less if he gets signed or not…Owens and Ryans though…these guys are marque players at their position…they are young and very talented…while I do understand the Texans logic behind this situation…we got to take care of our players as well.

For OD I bet you he will be back at practice by tomorrow, if not the end of the week. He is just doing this as a final stick my nose up…giving the bird to the Texans kinda thing.

by schillingb on Jun 15, 2009 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

the only thing

that management has failed to do (at least to my understanding) is just sit down with these guys and talk to them about what theyre doing. i mean… you got 3 team leaders here. all upset about contracts. i dont see the issue with sitting down and saying “Hey guys, the reason we’re not giving you your contracts now is because ____________”. i think that would be fair and still uncompromising, which honestly i’m really loving out of our FO. it pains me to cold shoulder the players but the FO will ultimately be right at the end of the day (so long as smith is our GM. tis a smart man, he.)

Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!

by BattleRedHusker on Jun 16, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So what you're saying is....

We should’ve done it last year.
If that’s the case, I completely agree. These conversations should’ve started about Week 2 of last year, and should be so far in the rearview mirror. Complete lack of foresight on our FO’s end. Not with the Dunta deal, because they had every reason to hold off on that one.
And now we’re here….

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jun 16, 2009 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I support Daniels completely in this.

He’s worth quite a bit of money, he got paid next to nothing (compared to his value as a player) last season, and he wants a long-term deal. What’s wrong with that?

The fact is that the NFLPA sucks and has done pretty much jack to increase its members’ bargaining power. Essentially, all Daniels has to bargain with is the threat of a holdout. To me, this is very different from Dunta’s holdout, which is based more around the fact that the FO doesn’t have any faith in his health (justifiably) and that he believes that the Texans lied to him. That situation is so convoluted, I have no idea what to think about it.

But this seems pretty clear-cut to me. The Texans have an exploitative reserve clause in OD’s contract, they want to pay him as little as they possibly can because there are no competitors out there, and OD wants as much as he can get.

It amazes me when guys like jahunter221, whom I assume is, like me, not a billionaire owner of a sports franchise, sympathize more with owners than players in these situations. If I were faced with something like this, where the only option I had was to be (a) unemployed, (b) paid nowhere close to what I’m worth, or © hold out in an attempt to get something reasonable, I’d take c, every single time.

It doesn’t matter to me that OD is going to be a millionaire whether he gets his deal or not (assuming he’s not injured and then cut), all that matters is that exploitation is exploitation. I think DeMeco’s quote on this was very true:

It’s not so much about me, Owen, Dunta. It’s about setting a standard that the league has thrived on: That guys who go out and play and perform well, who outperform their contracts, they get new deals, they get taken care of. But we haven’t seen that taking place here with the Texans. I haven’t seen one guy rewarded from within.

It seems to me that all three just want to be paid a wage commiserate with their value. What’s wrong with that?

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jun 16, 2009 1:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

also

I know a lot of people will say something about how he’s turned a contract that would (reportedly) make him the “second highest-paid TE in the NFL.” No, he’s not the best tight end the the league, but there are some things to think about when you read that.

First, I imagine a lot of why OD wants to be paid so highly is because of the disparity between his production over the last two seasons and his salary. He probably wants to be reimbursed, and I think he’s justified in that. It’s a fairly common pay structure in business to increase an employee’s pay beyond his real worth in later years, simply to reward investment in training and staying with the organization, as well as to compensate lower wages paid at the beginning of the career.

Second, the way NFL contracts work, being the “2nd highest-paid TE” doesn’t really mean much if your knee blows out in week 2 of your first year. All you’ll get is the guaranteed portion of the contract. So much of the negotiations right now probably have to do with what portion will be guaranteed, what portion will just be salary, and what will be in incentives.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jun 16, 2009 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where is this magical place

where they overpay the older guys as a reward? From what I’ve seen, they get laid off and replaced by, either, younger people or by someone offshore. Of course there is an exception. Government jobs usually give the old guys a break and let them get by with less work and more BS time spent on committees while they’re riding out their last few years before retirement. Private sector? See ya!

Anyway, back to football…. Take any starter who is still in their rookie contract and was selected outside of the top ten picks. They outplayed their contract. If they’re any good they get their big payday in four or five years. They don’t get back payments on that rookie contract. That’s just the way it goes.

As far as the guaranteed money goes, look at the other side of it. If he does something in week two and can’t play anymore, the team is on the hook for that money. He’s not the only guy on the team and there is a salary cap to manage.

What OD needs is a new agent. They screwed things up for Dunta and now they’re dragging OD down with him.

by Crawl on Jun 16, 2009 5:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

It's typically seen in corporate environments

and it’s, as you point out, dying out. You used to see it more when workers stayed at one company for their entire careers.

Anyway, back to football…. Take any starter who is still in their rookie contract and was selected outside of the top ten picks. They outplayed their contract. If they’re any good they get their big payday in four or five years. They don’t get back payments on that rookie contract. That’s just the way it goes.

1) You’re begging the question. I know that’s what’s going on, but I’m saying it’s wrong. If there were anything close to a competitive labor market in football, OD would be getting paid much more money right now. But the Texans (and every other club) have been using the lack of that free market (as well as their access to the limited market that does exist) to basically screw OD over for the past two years.
2) It’s clear from the DeMeco quote that, yeah, they do expect to get a paid appropriately now. And part of his reasoning is that they played on vastly below-market contracts for three years. The Texans killed whatever market was out there for his services with the RFA tender, and now he expects to be rewarded from within by a long-term contract. So if his only negotiating tactic is to hold out, what’s wrong with that?

As far as the guaranteed money goes, look at the other side of it. If he does something in week two and can’t play anymore, the team is on the hook for that money. He’s not the only guy on the team and there is a salary cap to manage.

Yeah, the Texans have a business to run. That’s great. But Daniels – like every other football player – is working in a very high-risk environment. He has, just by competing at this level for three years (as well as during college) significantly reduced his life expectancy and greatly increased his likelihood of chronic injury after he retires. And, should he get injured and end his career next week, he’s not going to get anything close to the value of his past work or what he would have made uninjured. The NFL pension doesn’t come anywhere close.

Now, if the Texans bet on Daniel and he gets injured, they’re on the hook for his cap number. That’s it. Bob McNair doesn’t lose his livelihood. Frankly, I’m not at all sympathetic to the financial plight of a billionaire football franchise.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jun 16, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I understand

the risk in playing football. I get it that they want to get paid now. They’re all one play away from it being over. I would also bet that none of them would trade it for a regular job.

When a kid finishes school and gets a job he’s likely getting a relatively low salary. He can move up and take on more responsibility fairly quickly but that salary rarely keeps up. Eventually, after probably jumping jobs, the salary falls into place with the responsibility. They don’t get back payments for those early years. It shouldn’t be any different for football players.

Anyway, they probably should have been working something out for Daniels and Ryans last year, but I think there might have been some cap issues left over from the Casserly days that made them want to wait. I’m really hoping that’s the case anyway.

Now, if Smith overpays for anyone and they get hurt early on in the deal. The cap hit is going to hurt the team a little bit If you get that wrong a few times it quickly becomes a huge problem. That’s all I was trying to say. I’m not worried about McNair’s checkbook.

The problem I have with the way Daniels is handling this is that I think his agent is using him as leverage for Robinson.

by Crawl on Jun 18, 2009 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

At least it is something

I would like to see OD and Ryans signed, but they are under contract so they should just play out their contract. The only thing I can say about the situation is that it gives us something to talk about in the slowest part of the year.

by John S on Jun 16, 2009 6:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Out Of All Three...

Ryans By far deserves a contract the most.. I think that goes without saying. He is a leader, a great player, and is the most under paid of the three. The guy is amazing get his taken care of now…seriously

by schillingb on Jun 16, 2009 5:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

To all you

people who talk about players wanting financial security and the short life of a playing career, look at the numbers. We’re talking 2.79 million dollars. If you make ~54K a year that’s 50 years worth of work. Add that amount to what he’s already made and even if his production declines what he would make and it’s tough for average people to identify with the spoiled behavior that professional athletes display. It’s not just people being bitter or jealous. Of course we want the entertainers to get what they are worth but some contracts or hold-outs seem rediculous. Also, as a side note from personal experience as an athletic performance coach, college and professional athletes get more things for free than anyone else anyway. They train for free half the time, they get meals comped, etc. Cuts down on the bills some. Peace out!

by sammocyr on Jun 16, 2009 9:49 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs