Trade Dunta? I'll Pass

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 7:00 AM CDT in News Comment 50 comments

Recently, Tim asked BRB what equal return would be for Dunta Robinson in a trade. In the attached poll, a small amount of the community (53 votes) said that the secondary was too weak to trade a cornerback of Robinson's caliber, however, an overwhelming majority (304 votes) voted for some form of draft picks in return for Robinson.

Now, I understand that many people were just voting for what they believe would be fair value for him, meaning they wouldn't necessarily want to trade him in the first place, but the fact that so few people voted for the "no trade" option tells me that said option is on the back-burner in a lot of minds. That means that there are a decent amount of people that would look to trade him first, rather than having him play out the season and leave via free agency come 2010. Or, BRB readers are lazy and just didn't look at all the options. Most likely though, I'm still the idiot the readers believe me to be.

My stupidity aside, it's safe to say there are people here who would trade Dunta in a heartbeat if the right deal came up. More on that after the jump.

Any deal for Robinson would undoubtedly be for future draft picks. Rarely in the NFL do we see player-for-player deals and even then, they almost never involve stars of any sort or even valuable role players. Robinson would be dealt for draft picks in 2010 or 2011 or both, which means there would be no new player not already on the roster attempting to fill his role on the team. If their real goal is the playoffs, as they say, and it is, a trade of Robinson means the front office has complete confidence in the players currently sitting behind him on the depth chart. Should they?

The CBs (not including Robinson) on the roster before we begin training camp consist of Fred Bennett, Jacques Reeves, Glover Quin, Antwaun Molden, Brice McCain, A.J. Davis, Mark Parson, David Pittman, and Matterral Richardson. Ignoring the fact that I have no idea who Matterral Richardson is or that he was even on our roster, let's take a look at a few of those who would be asked to step up in Robinson's absence, what it is they need to replace, and what we would be able to realistically expect from them in the hypothetical scenario. If you're going to trade Dunta, you must have a backup plan. Do any of the current players fit the bill as a true replacement?

First, let's assess what exactly it is Robinson brings to the table. Not surprisingly, when on the field last year he played at a fairly average level. He provided a spark to the rest of the team just by coming back, but his actual performance left a lot to be desired. It shouldn't have come as much of a surprise though, because it was his first time back in game action with little practice time under his belt, not to mention he was only playing at around 85-90% of his health. I understand that in this regard, Robinson can be seen as a bit of a question mark, considering no one knows if he's 100% healthy only a year and a half removed from reconstructive surgery. I'd be willing to bet, however, that as hard a worker as he is, as quickly as he has healed already, and as much money as he wants, he'll be in top shape whenever he decides to show up. And when fully healthy, it's undeniable who the best cornerback on the roster is. He will be able to consistently man the number one receiver on the opposing team without double team help. He may not be the elite corner he believes himself to be, but he's undoubtedly a difference-maker on the defensive side of the ball. With that in mind, let's move on to the replacement candidates and see if they can offer what's lost with Robinson in a trade scenario.

Fred Bennett - We all know the kind of talent Bennett possesses. The coaching staff would immediately look to him as the replacement to Dunta, based purely on his talent. And yes, I do believe he would be the number one corner over Jacques Reeves in this scenario unless he were to perform horrifically in training camp. If he played even slightly above the level he did as a rookie in 07, the transition away from Robinson would be absolutely nothing to worry about. The problem is the scary decline he suffered last year and how that effects the way he should be assessed going forward. It's easy to brush it off as a sophomore slump, but how can we be assured it's not a sign of things to come in the future? It's impossible to know. We know his leadership skills have improved, which is nice considering the pressure that would befall on the rookies if Robinson was traded, but how much have his on field skills improved? Kubiak did briefly state that he's a better player than before, but even after training camp we simply can't know until the real games roll around. Hell, Jacoby Jones lit training camp and the pre-season on fire his first year and we all know how that turned out. It's simply too much to ask a team hoping to reach the playoffs for the first time to rely on such an unknown to cover the number one receiver on the opposing team week in and week out

Jacques Reeves - John McClain tried to make a reasonable argument claiming that advanced statistics showed that Reeves was an above average cornerback last season. That attempt was debunked fairly quickly. However, Frenchy did improve a lot towards the end of the year and performed at a decent level, if not better. The man can run stride for stride with any receiver in the NFL, but his inability to turn his f'ing head around and get his hands up rendered him nearly impossible to watch last year. With Dunta gone, Reeves would be asked to man the number two position opposite Bennett. The obvious focus David Gibbs has put on technique should benefit Reeves more than anyone else in the secondary and should help him improve greatly. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Reeves would be an average to solid No. 2 with or without Dunta. Unfortunately, Reeves isn't a guy you can rely in to fill Robinson's role (which is the goal here) as a true number one option. Since we've established that Bennett is too much of a question mark heading into the season, it's apparent neither of these guys can replace what Robinson brings to the table.

Glover Quin, Antwuan Molden, Brice McCain - I'm grouping these three because honestly, I'm keeping my expectations low for rookies not named Ponytail, Connor Barwin, or Anthony Hill (kidding). Obviously, everyone's role gets bumped up a notch if Dunta were to leave the team, but who knows how any of these guys would produce under the circumstances. At least with Bennett and Reeves, we've had a pretty large helping of on-field evidence of how they perform. Not so much with this group. Molden is still recovering from the ankle injury he suffered at the end of last year and McCain is speed, speed, and little else until proven otherwise. The Glove did stand out during mini-camp but keeping in mind that no pads were put on, the accomplishment is less spectacular.

You might argue that the improvements that have taken place on the defensive line are enough to make up for the expected decline from the secondary should Dunta be traded. I say those improvements will be rendered worthless if we lose him now. To me, there's just not enough behind him to take a risk for future benefits. If healthy, Robinson can take on the opponent's top man with no fear. If he's gone, it suddenly creates a huge hole in the roster that the coaching staff would have to worry about, with little time to fix the problem. Again, I understand this is all hypothetical and more likely than not D-Rob will be playing in a Texans uniform next season, but I would be very troubled if we traded our top corner for draft picks when we are incredibly close to taking the next step as a franchise by reaching the playoffs.

Continue reminding me how brain dead I am in the comments section below and let your opinion be heard. Why are you for or against a trade of Dunta Robinson?

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Comments

Robinson's Value Is Diminished

Until he proves two things.

1. That he has fully recovered from his injury.
and
2. That he is a warrior who is willing to suck it up and play football, and not be a distraction to his team.

Basically until he takes the field for the Texans again, and plays well on it, his value will be a fragment of what it was last year before the injury. Not only would the picks be for the future, but they would be a low ball offer. I’m with you all the way Dre, selling low…way low, on our star secondary is not smart football.

I’m also in the camp that Dunta will never have as much value to any other team as he will to Houston. He’s not the “ideal” cornerback physically, but in Houston the team and Dunta have built a niche that has made him into a pro-bowl caliber corner…outside of Houston I’m sure he will be good, but I don’t think he will have the same kind of success.

Currently Listening to: Leroy - Good Time

"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that." - Hall of Fame WR Jerry Rice

by last texans fan on Jul 10, 2009 7:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Outstanding Analysis, DreKeem

Valid points all. The issue as I see it is more of whether Smithiak is willing to deal with the fallout from an unhappy Dunta in the locker room. There’s no doubt jettisoning him would be a huge risk from a strictly football perspective. Is keeping Dunta around worth the risk of him potentially rubbing those negative feelings off on his teammates?

I’m inclined to say yes, primarily because Dunta’s been nothing but an exemplary teammate his entire career.

Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Jul 10, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Good Analysis but missing the point

Great analysis but I think one aspect of the discussion was missed. Consideration must be given as to whether or not D’Rob will sign the darn contract. If it is believed that he won’t, then we are stuck with who we have and a trade MUST be considered. If he does but it is believed that he won’t sign a long-term deal, then again a trade MUST be considered for the long term benefit of the organization. The only reason NOT to trade him given the latter scenario is if we are Super Bowl contenders and his play is keeping us there.

I have always liked D’Rob as a player but Rick Smith must consider the long term implications of his decisions and not just this season. That is why he was tagged in the first place.

by RxDoogie on Jul 10, 2009 9:41 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Nice Catch

And very true.

Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Jul 10, 2009 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My mistake

You’re right, I was operating under the assumption that he would sign sometime before the regular season, which is my fault. However, I do believe Dunta will sign his deal before the start of week 1, however late it may be. Dunta doesn’t strike me as the player that would hold out into the season, even in this situation. He loves football and his teammates way too much to bail on them when the expectations are so high. I don’t think that line of thought is unrealistic either, which rules out any in-season holdout in my book.

As for the problem with the long term deal, I don’t think anything we do will keep Dunta here long term after how thins have gone. Who knows how much the relationship between the front office and the player has decreased? But I don’t think we need to sign him long term. If not signing him long term right now means we’re down to either trade or keep for a season again, I’m still going to keep him. After 7 years of shit to solid play from the team, I think it’s time for reward for both players and fans. The kind of effect trading Dunta would have on the current roster, he’s loved by all in the lockeroom, could be catastrophic. Jeaporadize this season for the future? Don’t think they’d be to happy with that. Which is why I think just by keeping dunta, your not hurting your long term health with the current roster, but you could with a deal. I don’t think DeMeco or others would be a happy camper if Dunta were to leave for draft picks, which may or may not pan out. If this really is a make or break year I don’t think it matters whether we’ve locked Dunta up for the future. And I do believe it’s that type of year. As you mentioned, some teams in similar scenarios would keep him if they were fighting for a superbowl but for the past 2 years we’ve been talking abot the playoffs and that is a goal we must reach. Can’t do it without Dunta though.

I typed this out on my phone, sorry if my argument isn’t clear. I don’t think I even understand half of what I wrote and I probably repeated myself a lot.

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 10:23 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

He has publicly stated that he will

not sign the tender unless he is guaranteed not to be franchised next season. He turned down 23 million guaranteed (supposedly) after coming off a monstrous injury, and when he played, he was just average. And he says Rick Smith is being nefarious?

These actions, to me, scream that he knows he is not ready and will not ever come back to form, so he is trying to get crazy guaranteed money by playing hardball, knowing the emotional ties to the team make it a hard business decision, and in all likelyhood he will disappoint when he sees the field.

Sign the damn tender, and if you tear it up you’ll get your long term deal. I don’t really see what the problem is, I really don’t. Maybe he is trying to make sure he will be a free agent in the possible uncapped season? That could possibly explain his very illogical behavior.

by Riott on Jul 10, 2009 9:57 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Stole some of my thundarr...

On the injury front. But, please read my comment below. It’s the most I’ve ever typed, ever-ever.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jul 10, 2009 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent post.

Rec.

by WhiskeyR on Jul 10, 2009 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like you DreKeem...

But I hate your points.
1. I was going to bring up the fact that keeping him for one year, and then getting nothing in return when he doesn’t sign a new deal and leaves via free agency is silly, but RxDoog got that one.
2. I think you (and many others) are forgetting just how well Reeves played late last year when he DID start turning his head. I’d think he’d be our best candidate to take over the #1 job, unless of course, Frank Bush wants the corners to just play one side of the field, and not a particular receiver. As long as what Reeves picked up late in the year holds, he’d be just fine against #1’s
3. You say, “even after training camp we simply can’t know until the real games roll around” about the other corners, but then make assumptions about what Dunta WILL do. The bottom line is, we know as much, or more, about all the OTHER CBs on the roster, as we do about #23. Frankly, the way this has all played out, with him refusing to show up, I’m of the opinion that he KNOWS he’s not as good as he once was, and may never be again.
4. Finally, I think you’re majorly overlooking how much an improved pass rush or QB pressure would improve our overall pass coverage. Does anyone REALLY think that Courtland “LittlePussyBitch” Finnegan is THAT good a corner, or is it their pressure that allows him to be a gambler, and come up with picks and hits? Anyone on our roster could cover for as long as those guys have to. Is there a correlation to why Antonio Cromartie had a down season, and Merriman being out most of the year? Dunno. Just sayin’.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jul 10, 2009 10:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

I guess it’s a good thing that my post was so illogical to you that it inspired you to write your longest comment ever. Is that a good thing?

1. I gave a response to RxDoog, check it out and reduce that point to nothing as well if you get the chance.

2. I gave some props to Reeves’ performance at the end of the season in the post, but even with that I don’t think it’s enough to assume that he can suddenly take on the Larry Fitzgeralds, Ocho Cincos, or Reggie Waynes of the league. Pessimism? Sure, a bit, but I’d rather place my fate in Robinson coming back healthy than Reeves suddenly being a playoff worthy #1. I guess that’s just a difference of opinion.

3. I understand that point and honestly, I don’t really have a legit answer in return, but it just doesn’t make sense. Why, after coming back all the way to 90% or so would he suddenly be unable to heal? No doctor has said that he wouldn’t be able to return 100% healthy. Nothing was reported after he came back that this was as far as he was going to go and no more. Yes, it was career threatening, but there was no disclaimer that said “If he does everything right and works his ass off, he will still never be close to the player he once was”. How do we know for sure that this isn’t just a case of the agent/player being delusional and truly believing they are worth more than they actually are? Again, I know that’s a pretty shady answer. I just find it hard to believe that he wouldn’t come back 100% given the amount of time he’s put in and how far he progressed so quickly. Suddenly hitting a brick in the wall doesn’t make sense to me. Then again, neither does my argument…

4. I don’t think our line is suddenly so impressive that we can suddenly move corners without worry. If we’re going to compare it to the Titans line, I don’t care how much that area improves, it won’t be as good as the Tits were last year. Mario is a given yes and I do believe Smith was a fine addition, but Amobi is still somewhat of a hard case to consider since it takes a decent amount of time for tackles to get acclimated to the NFL, especially one at Okoye’s age and we don’t know if he’s finally got it all figured out. We still have Travis fucking Johnson in the mix for a starting spot and as much as I love Barwin, there’s absolutely no guarantee a rookie will suddenly provide the pass rushing lift we need. Unlike the Titans were heading into last year, we don’t have a proven and tested line, meaning we can’t suddenly believe it’s enough to make our corners look much, much better than they actually are. Jake wrote about how much the line has improved and I do agree with that statement, but I don’t believe there aren’t some hopeful outlooks in that regard and that we’re nearly as good as the Chargers line, which is another example you gave. We don’t have that kind of depth.

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points all...

I ask, though… Could even pre-injury Robinson really hang with the Waynes, Cincos, and Fitzgeralds? As you stated, we’ve never had good pass defenses, even when he was lining up. Can we give Faggins FULL blame on that? Actually, we almost can, but Dunta wasn’t THAT great, even then. Don’t make him out to be this untouchable, lockdown CB, just because Peyton and his brethren chose to target the retard wearing #38.
Difference of opinion, indeed.

As for the comparison to the Tits and Chargers, please don’t think I’m assuming our pressure is going to automatically be equal to theirs, because I’m certainly not. Just saying that, that is the INTENT of the new DC, from what we hear, and we’ve got better tools in place, to be able to pull it off.
And damn you for prompting me to type this much.
Seriously, though… good stuff, drekeem.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jul 10, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

He isn’t the elite guy I believe he thinks he is. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m just pointing out that I do think he’s the best we got, by a good amount. And that being said, he’s still a very good cover corner, along with his ability to help out against the run.

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree to disagree...

When in Rome.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jul 10, 2009 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

Dunta enrages me. He really does. As much as we liked him for being a fiery leader, we don’t know his intentions, other than the ones he has expressed, which is he wants to be paid like he is better than Scrabble himself. Sorry, you aren’t. You are a well liked player who was our best corner – that doesn’t make you THE best corner.

If Dunta came back, was in training camp, flying around, doing all these great things, I would be screaming for us to give him a new deal before the year is up so we don’t possibly lose him to free agency. Now, I think he is just playing us to see how much money falls out before we realize we’ve been had.

Right now, we have no idea if Dunta could cover Larry FItzgerald, Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, but we also don’t know if he can cover practice squad receivers! We know he is probably as good as he ended the season playing – which is not worth that much. To argue that Frenchie is less qualified to be our number 1 is comparing apples and oranges, because we have no idea of the coaching Frenchie has received vs. how good Dunta really is right now.

Lots of people don’t heal back to 100% – especially after lots of surgery. Why is everyone hesistant about players who come back after they tear their ACL? Its not they can’t play at all anymore, but that they have lost a step. Dunta tore his freaking leg in half – if his gait changes, due to surgery or to just being generally FUBAR’ed, that means relearning how to run, back pedal, cut, and suddenly, how you run now, or how you cut now, may be significantly slower than everything you did before. With this new agressive D, we will be playing man alot more in all likelyhood. Try staying with any quality receivers with a bum leg all game and see where that takes you.

I absolutely agree that while our Dline has improved, the only two things we know about it is that Mario not only walks on water, but creates the water he walks on, and that TJ sucks. Everything else is a toss up. WIll Okoye step up? Will Antonio Smith adjust quickly and provide the pressure we need? Will Barwin be able to step in on 3rd down and bring some speed? Will any D tackles have the dignity to replace TJ as our NT? All of these questions lead us to not really knowing how much of an impact they will have on coverages. Scheme, I think, will have more of an impact than DL changes alone.

Dunta, sign the damn tender, come out and do well, and if our DL is as good as the Kool-Aid makes us think it is, and Dunta and Fred and Frenchie are all playing at new wonderfully improved levels, December football here we come. I really think if Dunta holds out for the season (!), then at week six we trade his ass to someone who’s starting corner got injured and see what we can get. Or we hold on until next spring, franchise him AGAIN to put another nail in the coffin, and try and move him then.

by Riott on Jul 10, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok that was supposed to be 2,3,4 in response to Kreems points above

but formatting FTL.

by Riott on Jul 10, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And I ment Keem

Damn.

by Riott on Jul 10, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re: "December Football, Here We Come"

I feel very confident in predicting that your Houston Texans will be playing in December. Call it a gut feeling.

Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Jul 10, 2009 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hell

I’m confident we’ll be playing in JANUARY. Put your money on it!!!!

by WhiskeyR on Jul 10, 2009 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My name's... not... kreem... sniff sniff

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

I corrected it before you read it. By almost 2 hours. There’s no crying in blogging.

by Riott on Jul 10, 2009 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

beefy!!! Great stuff!!!

With you all the way on Reeves! He took the coaching in the last part of the season last year and it paid off. He is capable of covering #1’s and if he picks up where he left off, I am nominating him for the Pro Bowl.

AND, Courtland “LPB” Finnegan…he has to be on the TOP of the list of “OPPONENTS WE LOVE TO HATE!” that CHEAPSHOT ARTIST!!!!!!! Dang! I just gave DreKeem another topic for his prolific blogwriting abilities…..when it is posted, just put my vote in automatically for LPB.

It will happen

by Rip Jersey on Jul 10, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dude, what is your "beef" with me?

Get it, beef…beefy… yeah. Seriously though.

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Worry not...

I’ll take your back in that riff anytime, Drekeem. I noticed Rip used that phrase made famous by larry the suxble guy in the title of one of his posts, so he can forget about us ever being friends.

I have left parties in the past because people used that phrase. Won’t tolerate it.
Not one bit.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jul 10, 2009 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No beefy

You’re a prolific blogwriter, Dude…that’s a good thing! Keep it up, Drekeem! I can’t agree with you everytime, though. Isn’t that what writing on a blog is all about? Opinion?

It will happen

by Rip Jersey on Jul 10, 2009 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

One word..

Overrated. Don’t get me wrong I like Dunta, I thought he ended up a great draft pick; but when did he become the end all answer to our DB problem. He is an above average player who is being talked up to a great player. And the whole franchise tag dispute only reconfirms that all this talk is going to his head. SHOW US ON THE FIELD! I like to think that if a player is that good, you will be able to think about the season and say “man, Slaton is a bad-*ss” or “Johnson is the best reciever in the NFL” but when I think about Dunta I have to ask myself “did he play this seaon?” The last CB I could get behind was Aaron Glenn. He wasn’t a superstar, but he made the plays. I could be way off but I just don’t think Dunta’s worth the hype…..YET.

by TexanzFan on Jul 10, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My first reaction was, "Do I have to read all that?"

So, guess what?…I didn’t, hahahaha!!!!!

Hey! The Texans are only playing with the cards that were dealt to them. How many times do we have to rehash this? The team is in the driver’s seat. The player has some decisions to make, which his agent should be advising him, will affect his career.

Of course the team could trade the player; either because the player demands it and they comply with his request; or, because the team’s immediate needs exceed the net implications of losing the player in trade plus whatever they receive in the trade.

It’s just math…subtraction and addition.

The team management and coaches have done what they can for now regarding all of their developing free agents situations by utilizing the draft to the extent that they could.

Any further speculation is only that, speculation and really, just an unnecessary strain on the brain. I feel like I’ve been knockin’ my head on the DreKeem Wall….Man!!!!!

They have some experience at the CB position and they have some young talent. Just think, if the player did not come back from his injury at all, how much would they have done differently?

It will happen

by Rip Jersey on Jul 10, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Now, now, don't knock your head on my wall

I wouldn’t want you to get hurt.

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 10, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would be happy with the Texans trading Robinson

As long as they picked up at least a 3rd round pick, which I think is reasonable assuming another team could come to terms on an extension with him, otherwise i’m not sure how many teams will take a 1 year player at 9+ mil unless they have a major injury during training camp, which again is entirely possible in this league.

Honestly, I feel pretty good about the players we have at corner. Reeves has alot of physical ability, which pretty much everyone can see as it’s commented often that he covers pretty much everyone like a blanket he just loses sight of the ball in the proccess. You can teach technique and skill, you can’t teach the raw physical ability that allows him to “match recievers stride for stride” though. At any rate, he wasn’t exactly a bad CB last year, he just left alot to be desired because it was clear to see that he could be so much better with improved technique. Reeves has the smallest steps to take of any CB we have (including Robinson) of truly becoming an elite CB in the league. He literally has all the tools at the ready now, he just needs to refine his skills and technique and he could be a real shutdown corner.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 10, 2009 6:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Im not sure

if you understand how happy I would be if Frenchy became an elite CB. Not only because the Texans would have an elite CB, but so I could mock Cowgirls fans for it! Oh, I get warm and fuzzy just thinking about it.

by Riott on Jul 11, 2009 12:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Look over your shoulder Frenchy!"

When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is pretty much all it would take.

When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great discussion. Another thing to consider is

Fuck Dunta.

When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 10, 2009 10:20 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs

Nice.

On point, as always. Well played.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jul 11, 2009 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I so wish I wrote that

Because yeah. EXACTLY.

by WhiskeyR on Jul 12, 2009 8:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Too many people here are banking on Frenchy becoming an elite corner...

Half a season does not a career make. And even if he does, he’d make a hell of a lot more plays guarding a weenie number 2 receiver then trying to play D on a pro-bowl number 1.

As for Dunta he will follow the money. If Smith agrees not to franchise him again he will play, and leave for the highest bidder in 2010. That highest bidder may or may not be us. Just tell the baby what he wants, get him out there on the field, and if you can’t pay his big ass pay check next year draft a corner in round one.

We might as well keep him around for a year, we aren’t going to get much if anything for him and all trades would have to go through his approval at this point anyway. No one is going to give us a 3rd rounder for an injury recovering, undersized, overpayed, whiny bitch of a corner. Keep dreaming. I think 2009 with Dunta is better than 2010 with an extra mid round (5 or maybe 4 if we are lucky) pick. If you want to trade him get him on the field first, then sell him to a contender with secondary problems at the trade deadline after he has proven his desire to play. A solid Dunta would probably net a second rounder.

Currently Listening to: Leroy - Good Time

"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that." - Hall of Fame WR Jerry Rice

by last texans fan on Jul 11, 2009 7:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I dont think Frenchy will become an elite CB

but I think he will be average to slightly above average – which is all I think Dunta will be, sadly.

by Riott on Jul 11, 2009 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And what of Bennett?

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on Jul 11, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He will be a long-armed CB

Seriously though, who knows? Our dbs could all look better if we get a better pass rush.

When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not banking on Reeves becoming an elite corner

I just don’t think he’s as far off from being that as Robinson is. Robinson is a hard nosed and scrappy defender, but he’s always had trouble with occasionally getting burned deep. Reeves, from what i’ve seen, rarely ever gets beaten by the reciever, he just beats himself by not making the proper play on the ball. I tend to think it’d be easier to teach someone to turn their head around and look for the ball than it is to correct footwork issues or add the speed and agility required to stay with recievers step for step consistently. I just think Reeves is a better natural cover corner than Robinson.

The way I see it, Robinson in all probability won’t be with the Texans after last year, so why not give the young corners we have the experience they need now and we can find out this year how strong/weak our CB position is for the future. I don’t think we’d have much trouble getting a 3rd rounder from one team or another. There are going to be teams in training camp that suddenly realize “oh crap, we need CBs!” and corner has always been a position teams overpay for. As long as we can find a team who needs secondary help and that team can come to terms on a long-term contract with Robinson, I don’t see any reason we couldn’t get a 3rd rounder for him. If there were more than one team interested in him, we could get even more as they tried to outbid oneanother.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 11, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Also, Reeves is very fast. If he could learn to turn his head out there he would be very good. I think his failure to turn his head is a function of not being comfortable in coverage – remember that he came out of a zone system in Dallas which is obviously a poor use of his skillset. If (and of course it’s a unknown if he can/will) he can learn to relax a little out there and get comfortable in coverage he could be a very good cover corner.

Dunta’s best assets were more emotion and intensity. He was a very good tackler, but the team has gotten along without him. I agree that we should give our stable of young dbs a chance out there.

When I'm on the mic, I'm like global warming, you can't ignore me.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jul 11, 2009 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry the third rounder just wouldn't happen.

Look… any other team wanting Dunta would have the same problems as the Texans, and more. The deal would have to be a sign and trade.

1. He is not guaranteed at 100 percent, hell he may not even be 50 percent. He says he is, but that doesn’t mean shit.
2. They will either have to promise not to franchise him and pay him the Texans’ 1 year offer of top 5 CB money, which is ridiculous for a player coming off an injury. Then in 2010 he could bolt since they can’t tag him to the team offering the most money. Their 3rd rounder was dealt for a 1 year stop gap…OR
3. They will have the Texans sign him to a high dollar long term contract and then trade for him. Again something you don’t do with players recovering from injuries. Dunta is also undersized and not exceptionally physically gifted… its likely his talents will fade sooner than later.
4. All this plus it will cost them a pick.
5. Dunta could still veto any sign and trade by uhhh…not signing. Pretty much what he is doing now. Which means bad PR for that team.

They would be buying the same problem that we have now. Would you buy a post-injury Dunta for 2009 for 10 million dollars and a 3rd round pick if he wasn’t a Texan? If you’re hoping for another team’s idiocy then I’m right there with you, but I just don’t expect the offers to start flooding Smith’s inbox.

Currently Listening to: Leroy - Good Time

"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that." - Hall of Fame WR Jerry Rice

by last texans fan on Jul 11, 2009 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Would I spend a 3rd round pick for Robinson?

Certainly not, which is why I’d be fine with a possible trade. There’s teams every year it seems that overpays an average CB drastically simply because average is still a giant step above terrible. Any team that’s interested in him will want to work a contract out with him before making the trade, and he’s not going to be happy with anything short of being paid as a top 10 CB at minimum and probably top 5, and if there’s a team willing to give Robinson that kind of money I think it’s fairly safe to say they value him as at least a 3rd round draft pick. I’m not saying they could for sure get a trade for Robinson even if they tried but if they do try and succeed, any team desperate enough to give him the contract he wants would most likely be desperate enough to give up a 3rd round pick in order to sign him.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 11, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said, teams get CB crazy at times and while it’s not a sure thing, I wouldn’t count out the possibility altogether that we could move him. I mean seriously, if Deangelo Hall is worth a 2nd and 5th rounder to a team, you’d think it’d be within reason to get a 3rd out of Robinson who was a better corner than Hall while walking on crutches after the injury.

Do I think Robinson is worth the cost now? Of course not, but it only takes one team to go gaga over CBs and we’re in business.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 11, 2009 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There’s other CBs that could be had at the same price that would be a better, safer investment even for a CB starved team. Hall is at least healthy, signed to a long term contract, and at his peak he was better than Dunta at his peak.

Besides the Redskins are absolute idiots, and they’ve spent all their money so they won’t be buying anyone from us.

If the Texans’ secondary isn’t in the gutter then who’s is? Its the weakest part of our team bar none, all we have is a collection of potentials and hopefulls. Who needs a pro-bowl veteran more than we do right now? We’re the team you’re describing. Plus the price is a whole lot cheaper for us. We just have to pay 10 million and a weak promise, they have to pay all that plus a pick.

Currently Listening to: Leroy - Good Time

"I feel like I'm the best, but you're not going to get me to say that." - Hall of Fame WR Jerry Rice

by last texans fan on Jul 12, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure you understand my point

I’m not saying we should dump Robinson even if we get scraps in return… If he signs his franchise tag, which he probably will once regular season comes at least, we’re certainly not worse off having him on the team. If however there is interest in him from other teams, I would be fine with getting rid of him for the value of a 3rd round pick there abouts. If a team were that interested in Robinson surely he’d be worth that to them.

I’m not sure there are CBs with his reputation available for less this summer. If he did go into free agency this year he would have almost surely gotten a hefty contract from one team or another, whether he’s 100% or not. The 49ers lost a starting CB in OTAs for the season and signed an aged veteran to replace him, if that doesn’t work out they could be one team that goes into panic mode before the preseason is over.

Again, i’m not saying it’s likely or probable, just that if the opportunity is there that we take it, stranger things have happened. Also, i’ve already mentioned i’m pretty confident in the young CBs we have besides Robinson, I think they’ll hold up their end fairly well with or without Robinson on the field. If the Texans don’t have that same confidence in them, then clearly they shouldn’t trade Robinson for anything and should probably agree to his demands…, but if they do then there’s no loss in exploring options.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 12, 2009 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I actually believe personally that our secondary would be stronger without Robinson starting, I feel strongly that if we give our young guys a chance they’ll pull through for us. Robinson will only serve to slow their progress as he takes game experience from them, but Robinson has always made mistakes here getting burned in the proccess. I like him as a player, but I don’t think he’s the future at CB any longer for this team.

by Bryan72076 on Jul 12, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lil Bitch

There is no reason to pay a 5’ 8" corner that is nothing but a distraction and acts like a lil bitch because he isnt making the tens of millions that he thinks he should be making. Trade him for an old hat and be done with whiney bitches forever.

Then pay DeMeco what ever he wants.

Then give Owen an insentive heavy deal – or James Casey could take over at TE/SE/H-Back.

by Cactus Jack Sancho on Jul 12, 2009 4:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

My opinion

I’m not sure of the rules of blatant self-promotion here, but I just wrote a post on Dunta on atexansblog.com. To me, anything above and beyond a one-year “prove yourself” tender would be a massive waste. Not only was Dunta not average last year, he was flat-out poor.

by bigfatdrunk on Jul 13, 2009 7:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs