Rock The Vote: Should The Texans Agree Not To Franchise Dunta Robinson Again?
by Tim on Aug 8, 2009 2:18 PM CDT
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PrintWe've talked about this ad nauseam, but I'm interested as to what the readership thinks right now, with camp in full swing, the season fast approaching, and the Texans facing the very real possibility of begging Night Train Lane to suit up. And yes, I realize Lane passed away a few years ago. Make your feelings known in the poll below.
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Why would the Texans relinquish their trump card?
Seriously, why would any fan of the Texans vote yes to that poll? I’m a fan of D-Rob, and especially a fan of his tenacity. I think it rubs off on the other players and makes them better. Football is an emotional game, and when teammates see Robinson give it all on the field, they cant help but do the same. That said, the Texans should not, and will not, give up the right to franchise him a second time, The reason why is obvious – it’s in their best interest. Let’s don’t feel sorry for Dunta, because if he gets tagged a second time he’ll earn over $20 million in two years. That’s big bank.
I laughed when Jerome Solomon said the Texans should follow the lead of Tennessee and New England, and treat Robinson like Albert Haynseworth and Asante Samuel. Really? Because why? Because he’s made a Pro-Bowl? Nope. Because he’s the best player at his position in the league? Nope. Because he starred in the Super Bowl, and makes a habit of intercepting Peyton Manning? Nope. Oh, I get why. So he can leave the team the first chance he gets. Sorry, if the Texans don’t come to an agreement with Dunta, they SHOULD franchise him again, if he proves on the field this season that he’s worth it.
by carsonwayne on Aug 8, 2009 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Agree
The franchise tag is a way of REWARDING the player with high pay, EVEN THOUGH he has an inflated ego and couldn’t agree with the team, how much he’s worth.
It will happen
The idea that the franchise tag is a "reward" is preposterous
Would you feel rewarded if you were only able to negotiate the terms of your employment with one company in your industry, even though your services were in high demand amongst other potential employers? I know we’d probably all jump at the chance to be guaranteed $10 mil for a few months of work, but this is all relative; Dunta knows he’s worth more than that (“worth” in the sense that the market, unrestricted by the franchise tag, would deliver him more money over more years).
I Would
Feel very rewarded if my employer guaranteed me $10 mil, and I had the chance to get guaranteed another few tens of millions of dollars next year, either via another franchise tag or the open market.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
It's like winning the lottery
He came off a catastophic injury and played only part of the season and played subparly, by his standards and by the standards of the top five players at his position and no one knows how he will perform this season based on last season’s performance. So, yes, being franchised for $10 mill is a blessing for him, because the demand for his services was not there throughout the league. And besides, he should have accepted the extremely high offer made to him in the first place, so he is doubly blessed that the Texans treated him so well by franchising him. It was good business on the Texans part and it was also a “reward” to the player.
It will happen
I don't think they would franchise him again to keep him
I think they would trade him. Things would get mighty ugly and I don’t think the Texans would want to deal with that in the locker room.
The Key, To Me
Is whether the Texans think they’re going to get long-term deals done with Owen Daniels and DeMeco Ryans. If they think they’re going to and/or they’re prepared to see them walk, hold strong with Dunta. But if Smithiak thinks long-term deals are not in the offing for BOTH of those guys prior to the 2009 offseason, I think it becomes much more likely that they’d use the franchise tag on one of them (Daniels or DeMeco) instead of Dunta again, which in turn would make conceding to D-Rob far more reasonable.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
Could be two tags.
If I understand it correctly, there will be an additional franchise tag available to teams if there isn’t a new CBA. In an uncapped year players wouldn’t reach free agency until their 6th season. At least I think that’s the case. Who knows what’s going to happen, but I believe the Texans are preparing for the worst case scenario.
Judging from the results, people are getting pretty irritated with Dunta.
I think a fair compromise is if Dunta hits certain benchmarks, he doesn’t get franchised. Something along the lines of playing 75% of snaps. The idea is that if he plays enough, we’ll have an accurate assessment of his abilities, and we’ll be more than happy to compete for his services. That’s the reason he was franchised this year; we don’t know if he’s still Dunta, and need more time to assess his abilities.
Dunta was pretty silly to turn down this proposed $23 million guaranteed deal, but Smith should be able to work out an agreement not to franchise him again.
The idea that a player should feel lucky to be franchised is pretty silly. He’s being forced to limit his pool of potential employers to one team on terms he largely can’t negotiate. Yes, he’s getting $10 million guaranteed, but a player gets franchised largely because the team recognizes there is a demand for his services that they don’t want to compete against.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t franchise players – just that we shouldn’t act surprised that Dunta isn’t happy with it.
"A player gets franchised largely because the team recognizes there is a demand for his services that they don’t want to compete against"
“Largely” being the key word. While I’d agree with the proposition generally, I don’t believe it would have applied to Dunta this offseason. No team except the Texans would’ve offered Dunta $23 mil guaranteed going into the 2009 season.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
The point still stands; the Texans franchised Dunta because they wanted to be the only team negotiating with him for a contract.
And I don’t see why you think other teams wouldn’t offer him that kind of money. Between 31 other teams, you don’t think there’s the demand for a cornerback of Dunta’s capabilities?
Your scenario implies that Rick Smith offered Dunta Robinson a bigger contract than any other team was willing to give him, even though Rick Smith enjoys the advantages of being the “home team” and being the only team able to negotiate with him – AND that Dunta and his agent were dumb enough to turn down a contract that no other team in the league was willing to match. It’s kind of hard for me to believe all those things are true.
I Stand By My Argument
Though there’s no way we’ll ever know who’s right. I would be SHOCKED if another organization would guarantee Dunta Robinson more than $23 mil right now, what with him coming off a horrific injury and seeing what we saw when he came back last season, when Asomugha, far and away the best CB in the league (and healthy to boot), got $28 mil guaranteed.
That said, if LZ said there was interest in Dunta at the dollars discussed, I’m inclined to believe it. He had Haynesworth to the ’Skins pegged before anyone else did.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
It’s true we’ll never know. My argument stands on Dunta and his agent being rational actors, and as we were discussing in this sub-thread, that might not be a good assumption!
One thing to keep in mind with Nnamdi Asomugha’s contract is that it was seen as a status-quo defying contract. It was a 4-year max deal; Alphabet Soup not only gets mega-bucks but he gets to hit the market for a third big contract. He got paid big time in exchange for having to endure the Oakland franchise for a few more years.
Stand on your word...
This is a big year for The Texans. The playoffs are in reaching distance, division leaders are going through transitions, they have their best team ever fielded. With that being said, after applying the tag in the first place, the Texans lost respect from many of the players, when failing to live up to their words. The responsibility does not fall on Robinson, but solely on the shoulders of upper management. This is an important step, not just for establishing trust with Dunta, but the remainder of the team. Key contracts need signed, and you don’t want to start a mass exodus, with Robinson, followed by Ryans, Daniels, and other vets coming up soon for new contracts. Don’t forget, Mario won’t be too far behind, and his contract will garner record numbers for DE’s, as long as he continues to produce. Accept the terms and live up to them. Or else, Dunta won’t be the only Texan looking to bolt from Houston.
If you want it, go somewhere else. This you can't handle son....
by The Original Pittbull on Aug 9, 2009 9:38 AM CDT reply actions
This is all starting to make perfect sense to me
D-Rob says please don’t F-tag me, knowing that by refusing an over the top offer, he will force Smith to do just that. Now he is guaranteed $10 mil for this year, with the added benefit that he can skip training camp. Next he adds the (pseudo)demand not to repeat the F-tag next year. Worst case scenario for D-Rob is he is felled by a career ending injury this season. Next worst scenario is that D-Rob has a terrible season. I think the possibility of those 2 scenarios is minimal. D-Rob is banking on it. Either he gets tagged again which guarantees a minimum of $11 mil for 2010, and he skips another camp, or he signs a nice long term deal. He gets at least 21 of the 23 mil he was offered in just 2 seasons, and he gets to skip 2 camps, or he cashes in even bigger with a multi-year deal.
I remember Sean Jones doing the same thing several times with the Oilers & Raiders. He didn’t particularly like, and judging by his performance, apparently did not need training camp. He made a ton of dough in the NFL, and so will D-Rob.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Aug 9, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions
Why would Dunta believe a guarantee to not franchise him?
This is kind of a side track to the discussion, but if we’re to believe Dunta in the first place, Rick Smith told him that he wouldn’t franchise him – and then did.
If that’s the case – if Dunta truly believes that – then why would Dunta believe another promise from Rick Smith regarding the franchise tag? This pretty much blows Dunta’s assertion that Smith agreed to not franchise him in the first place out of the water, doesn’t it?
I'm Assuming
Dunta’s people would get the no-tag guarantee in writing.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
Are they incompetent?
Why didn’t they get it in writing last year, then? And if they didn’t try, or if they did try and Smith refused last year, then why were they inclined to believe Smith?
Those damned fools.
I’m one of those damned fools who voted to agree to not franchise Drob next season, but a single vote doesn’t explain anything.
for the sake of clarity, and how mightily soon we’ve forgotten, Rick Smith didn’t say he wouldn’t franchise tag Dunta Robinson, he said “The Texans [insert suitable clause] (would rather not) (would prefer not to) (don’t want to have to) franchise tag Dunta Robinson.”
So for the sake of clarity, there’s a big difference between saying you don’t want to do something and won’t do something and even further actually not doing it. The mine field of human relations is filled with these things some of which have had global consequences, WWII for example.
So yes, agree not to tag him, the Texans have to worry about this season now, give Bennett and Quinn another year to gain more experience without selling out this season, and then draft the best corner available in April 2010 or free safety, because they sure won’t be able to afford ignoring the secondary the way they did running back when Shawne Green slipped from their grasp because they thought he was a reach in round 2.
I’ve weighed all that Dunta brings, but the current great teams (Pittsburgh, New England)have a regular rotation of players, which s how they manage to stay consistent, and under cap, which for the moment there still is one.
Besides, Demeco Ryans is till more important to the defense, and he wants an extension too.
This is a new defense, with new coaches, and Dunta needs to be in camp. I’ve too many times seen hold outs turn into wash outs.
Sigs, the play ground of mindless philosophers.
Agree with what you say
The thing I would add to this is that the teams you mention that maintain there competitiveness year after year with a rotation of players, do that by not overpaying for their parts and pieces. I believe the Texans are trying to get there, but they have never in the past understood this concept of paying too much. I can list numerous examples of oft-injured aging veterans that they have signed as free agents trying to fill those voids, thinking they would be impact players, only to be burned when these players show up for a few games over the length of their contract. They have to get smarter at that. Now this relates to Dunta Robinson because, he is now in that category of oft-injured veterans, because of his injury. I believe that this one year franchise tag is the best way to go for the Texans, actually. It is a one time hit and it allows them to see how the player’s health is…that is, if the player shows up. So, Dunta has no leverage because the only way he can get leverage is to show up and play well. People, not you, keep mentioning that the team has to guarantee not to franchise him and he will show up. That sends a dangerous precedent. That opens the door for the player to leave as a free agent without compensation to the team. It sets a precedent that other players should expect this kind of treatment. The team should not accept those terms. They need to stay on course and follow through with what you laid out as what I will call the rotation plan. If I were Rick Smith, I would not even consider this kind of tact in the negotiations. The only thing they should do in reaction to this situation is fill in the slot that has been vacated by the player and at a cost that fits the slot. They have to stay on plan. The player is not bigger than the plan.
It will happen
I'm curious.... Not like THAT, bfd!
Who is on that list of aged, worthless players we’ve spent the king’s ransom?
I know one, for sure. He won’t soon be forgotten, but the others… well, I’ve forgotten…
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Veterans Who Got A King's Ransom
Ahman Green
Anthony Weaver
Todd Wade
Zach Wiegert
David Carr
Morlon Greenwood
Gary Walker
Robaire Smith
Anyone else I’m forgetting?
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
"oft-injured aging veterans that they have signed as free agents trying to fill those voids"
Ahman Green – obviously the one no one will forget. correct.
Anthony Weaver – paid highly and non-productive, but was still young when signed. also not oft-injured (unfortunately)
Todd Wade – also young(er) if I remember. I’ll give you this one.
Zach Wiegert – just sucked. did we spend alot on him, though?
David Carr – never injured, and damn him to hell for it.
Morlon Greenwood – younger, also. non-injured.
Gary Walker – you’re absolutely nuts if you think Gary wasn’t worth every red penny. got hurt later, but was solid as piss before that. You should’ve said “Tony Boselli” but I’d still argue that we got Walker and Payne because of him, and he was still young, so there was a CHANCE he’d actually suit up. Also, we weren’t paying anyone then, anyway, so I’d do it all again.
Robaire Smith – good one. no argument. Did we pay him alot? I honestly don’t recall.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Also...
Boselli and Walker weren’t free agent pickups. forgot to add that.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Walker
I should have clarified. Yes, he was an expansion draftee, but we re-signed him to a new deal. And while he was a Pro Bowler, he didn’t do much, if anything, once they re-signed him for big dollars.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
That's true
I knew we’d done another deal with him, and it was right at the end when his back started getting all “question marked.”
Mark that one with an asterisk.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Last note
I wasn’t looking for a fight or anything, with that question, but the way he phrased it made me only think of Ahman, and couldn’t remember anyone else that fit THAT bill. Had he just said “front office idiocy” it would’ve been completely agreeable and accurate.
Like I said above, I was prolly being nitpicky. The brush was too broad for me to ignore.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Thanks for the correction
“Front office idiocy” would have been more accurate to use. It is tough coming up with snappy one-liner descriptions in posts sometimes, when the deadline is about 10 seconds from now.
It will happen
No sir....
Why should we give up that right? The fans, the organization was all behind him when he came back from that injury. They even let him stay on the field eventhough he was performing horribly. (Yess frenchy was a better corner than Dunta was last season)
To have all that support from the fans and the organization, it takes a lot to gain all that.
And he lost it all because of what? Because Richard Smith decided to do what’s best for this franchise when they couldn’t come into terms? Hell naw. Franchise him next year as well. I wouldn’t give a hoot. Im pretty much ready for the worst and im not expecting much from our CB corps this year. I dont think Dunta coming back would even change my mind about it. He was horrible last year, and what makes me think that he wont be horrible again this year? There’s plenty of deserving players out there that will do the best they can to fill the void he has left. And our young CB’s look like they’re willing to step up. I say move on. Show him who’s the boss. There’s no way he’s gonna leave all that money out on the table. He’ll sign, play his butt off and it’s either he’s gonna have one heck of a season because he has to prove that he’s worth that money or we’re gonna see how horrible he’s become and be thankful that we didn’t sign him long term. Franchise him once again and trade him.
23 mil guaranteed
and he still rejected it. that’s what everybody knows anyway and dunta’s camp isn’t refuting the numbers.
To have played so mediocre last season and get paid with that much money was already absurd. Im glad he didn’t sign that contract coz it would’ve been another mistake. Even before the Oakland game, he still didn’t deserve that much money. He mightve been in the top ten CB’s but he wasn’t close to being #2.
He’s gotta realize that we’re not in the Casserly era anymore. We’re not just gonna throw money at him because he’s the best CB we can get for now. We’ve got a smarter front office that is willing to exhaust every resource first before paying him the money that he doesn’t deserve.
Top 2 at his position . . . .
at the time the contract was offered Dunta would have been the 2 highest paid player at his position. What screwed everything up was the Giants and Panthers offering contract extensions to Chris Gamble and Corey Webster for what I believe was $23 m gauranteed.
how much was asomugah paid?
im too lazy to look up the numbers.
Dunta doesn’t even come close to Asomugah’s level of play and he wants to get paid like
he’s the second best CB in the league? That’s ridiculous. We even offered him that money and he had the audacity to reject it and claim it wasn’t enough? I know we’re not hearing his side of the story, and the only thing we could get out of him was “it’s not about the money” but it is about the money D-Rob. Rick Smith “promised” not to franchise you but he did. The only reason he’s pissed about it is because he couldn’t negotiate with other teams for MORE MONEY. So it all comes back to the money. And $23,000,000.00 is A LOT of money.
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