Battle Red Blog: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: MLB Trade Deadline: Who is available around MLB?

American Needle, Inc. v. National Football League: Apocalypse Soon?

I don't mean to alarm anyone, but there's a chance -- depending on the whims of a couple septuagenarians -- that much of the NFL world as we know it could come to an end.  I'm not talking about the potentially uncapped 2010 season, either.  Instead, I'm talking about a United States Supreme Court case called American Needle, Inc. v. National Football League, et al., Docket No. 08-661.

Procedural History

In 2000, the NFL authorized NFL Properties ("NFLP") to solicit bids from companies who wished to obtain an exclusive headwear license.  Reebok won the bid and received a ten (10) year exclusive license to make hats and other headwear featuring NFL team logos.  Because of this exclusive license, NFLP accordingly refused to renew American Needle's (and all other headwear vendors') licenses.

American Needle filed a lawsuit against the NFL, NFLP, each of the thirty-two (32) NFL teams separately, and Reebok, claiming that such an exclusive license violated Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.  Section 1 prohibits any "contract, combination . . . or conspiracy, in restraint of trade."  The NFL and other respondents moved for summary judgment  -- asked the court to rule in the respondents' favor because there was no material issue of fact to be resolved and the law as applied to the undisputed facts clearly entitled the respondents to a favorable judgment -- by arguing that the NFL was immune from antitrust liability because it was a "single entity." 

[Briefly, the single entity argument states that the NFL and its teams are really just one business for purposes of the Sherman Antitrust Act.  This is important as Section 1 explicitly requires an agreement between entities and a single entity could not reach an agreement with itself.]

After a couple questions regarding discovery of evidence were answered, the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois granted respondents' motion for summary judgment, ruling that "the NFL and the teams act as a single entity in licensing their intellectual property" and were, therefore, immune to an antitrust lawsuit under Section 1.

Star-divide

The Court of Appeal for the Seventh Circuit affirmed the lower court's judgment and explicitly accepted the single entity rationale.  American Needle petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court, asking them to grant certiorari and hear the case. 

In yet another odd twist to the case, the NFL and the other respondents took the highly unusual step of filing a brief with the Supreme Court urging them to hear the case.  The respondents' position is that the Court should rule, once and for all, whether the NFL is a single entity for purposes of Section 1.  The Court agreed to hear the case, and oral arguments in American Needle are set for Wednesday, January 13, 2010.

The Single Entity Argument

It is probably an understatement to say that courts have had a hard time uniformly applying antitrust laws to professional sports leagues.  In 1922, Major League Baseball was granted a blanket exemption to antitrust laws (which was scaled back slightly by the Curt Flood Act of 1998, at least vis-a-vis employment rights of baseball players).  Both the NFL and NBA subsequently sought the same exemption, only to see the Court rule that the exemption (a) probably wouldn't have been granted to baseball if they could do it all over again and (b) regardless, the exemption applied only to MLB.  (For a relevant NFL case, see Radovich v. NFL, 352 U.S. 445 (1957).)

However, because they have recognized that NFL teams (and other pro sports teams) have a unique relationship with one another -- one team cannot stage its own games, for example -- courts have refused to find every agreement between teams per se illegal, even where the agreements would likely be illegal under antitrust laws if they were made in a different industry.  Instead, courts have focused on whether an agreement is, in fact, an unreasonable restraint on competition.

Never content with seeking ad hoc exceptions to antitrust laws, the NFL has long sought a blanket exemption such as the one enjoyed by MLB and has the pushed single entity theory several times in federal court over the years, though it has almost always been rejected.  (Prior to American Needle, the only other time a federal court seemed to embrace the theory was in Chicago Professional Sports Limited Partnership v. NBA ("Bulls II"), when the Seventh Circuit, without explicitly ruling the NBA a single entity, laid out the framework for why such an argument would make sense in certain contexts.)  Most notably, in Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum Commission v. NFL, 726 F.2d 1381 (9th Cir. 1984), the Ninth Circuit flatly refused to entertain the NFL's single entity theory, explaining that, "to tolerate such a loophole would permit league members to escape antitrust responsibility for any restraint entered into by them that would benefit their league or enhance their ability to compete even though the benefit would be outweighed by its anticompetitive effects."

Perhaps emboldened by the Seventh Circuit's ruling in Bulls II, in American Needle, the NFL latched on to the unique relationship between teams, arguing that no team "can produce even a single unit of production—one football game—on its own; only through their collective actions can the member clubs produce the full season of games, including the playoff and Super Bowl games, that make NFL Football a unique and valuable product."  Thus, the argument goes, no single team has a tangible economic value outside the confines of its place in the league as a whole and the league must therefore be seen as a single entity.  In affirming the district court's ruling, the Seventh Circuit picked up where it left off in Bulls II, stating that the unique nature of professional sports leagues requires that the single entity question be compartmentalized and determined on case-by-case basis, "one facet of the league at a time."  This test, essentially, means that, depending on what they are trying to do, the NFL (and other leagues) could be either a single entity or multiple entities, and that each question will have to be determined as it arises.

The Seventh Circuit agreed with the district court that the NFL was a single entity when it came to granting a license to produce headwear featuring NFL logos.  American Needle, Inc., appealed to the Supreme Court to get this decision overturned.  The NFL, conversely, asked the Supreme Court to hear the case, not to affirm that narrow result, but to expand the holding and find the NFL a single entity for all business purposes.

Why This Matters

So, why should you care and why have I spent over 1,100 words getting to this point?  Because, in a sense, this is a no-risk move for the NFL.  If the decision is overturned, all it means is that they have to let more than just Reebok produce hats and they probably don't lose any money in the end; if they win at the Supreme Court and get the broad ruling they seek, they'll be more-or-less free to do whatever they want in terms of salaries, contracts, etc.  Meaning, should the NFL get single entity status, the league could set league-wide salary scales tied directly to years in the league, meaning that Peyton Manning, Charles Woodson, Brian Griese, and Alan Faneca (for example) would all make the same salary.  (This would almost certainly have to be grandfathered in, so my example is somewhat flawed, but you get the point.)  The league could change the rules for free agency so that teams can more easily keep players as long as they like.  The league could set flat salaries for all rookies, regardless of draft position.

In short, the NFL could do anything it wanted on its own, provided that action did not run afoul of other laws, with zero repercussion.

It bears mentioning, of course, that an NFL win does not necessarily mean they would do these things.  Some of the doomsday scenarios -- prohibition of player movement, for example -- are unlikely even if they were possible because the NFL is smart enough to realize that consumers (i.e., fans) enjoy the speculation and interest that free agency and the draft create.  You have to assume, even if the NFL gets the broadest possible ruling from the Court, that it is a rational actor and is going to remember that maximizing fan interest leads to greater profits in the long run. 

(Besides, you have the simple fact that, if the NFL really wanted to, it could restructure itself through a sale of everything to one owner so that it was definitely a single entity.  This is how Major League Soccer was structured from the beginning and no one has ever seriously contended that it was anything but a single entity.  That the NFL has not gone this route yet suggests that they are more interested in skirting antitrust laws in a few small areas and are otherwise okay with the current system.)

Even with those caveats, however, it is still fair to say that a broad decision in favor of the NFL in American Needle would alter the NFL product to some unknown extent.  Maybe it deflates high-end salaries, such as the contracts received by QBs and LTs.  Maybe it increases the cost of all NFL-authorized merchandise because the league would be able to grant exclusive licenses for every single item you want to buy, eliminating competition.  Neither of those would seem huge, but they would certainly alter things long-term.  Such a decision would also fly in the face of about 60 years of jurisprudence regarding antitrust and the NFL, which could conceivably encourage owners to feel they have a mandate to do whatever they want (thus blowing the rational actor theory).  If we've learned one thing as sports fans over the years, it's that one should never underestimate the self-interest of a bunch of rich, white American males.

Which Outcome Is Likely?

The NFL is apparently banking on the generally pro-business position of the current Supreme Court.  Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Alito, and Thomas are almost certain to side with the NFL.  Justice Sotomayor, who ruled against a single entity theory proffered by Major League Baseball while she was a lower court judge, as well and Justices Stevens and Ginsburg are likely to side with American Needle (and, not coincidentally, with the players).  This means that Justices Breyer and Kennedy, the aforementioned septuagenarians, will decide the case. 

Popular opinion seems to be that Breyer will side with the NFL based on his opinion in 1996's Brown v. Pro Football, Inc.  However, Breyer's decisions on antitrust law dating back to his time on the lower federal bench have shown him to favor exemptions and bright-line rules only when the benefits of exhaustive analysis using all of the economic and other tools available in modern antitrust cases do not justify the costs.  Given the far-reaching impact a broad decision could have in this case, Breyer could easily determine that further analysis, perhaps in an area more pressing than headwear, is necessary and justifies the cost of future litigation on the issue.

Justice Kennedy has explicitly taken a case-by-case approach to questions of antitrust law, deciding most based upon which outcome is more likely to spark competition.  In that vein, it is probable (though not certain) that he would side with American Needle.

The wild card in all of this is that, in my opinion, the Seventh Circuit's rationale in American Needle does not hold up.  That decision rested in large part on the circuit court's interpretation of a U.S. Supreme Court case, Copperweld Corp v. Independence Tube Corp., that held a parent corporation and a wholly owned subsidiary were a single entity based on their "unity of interests."  The Seventh Circuit read "unity of interests" broadly and determined that, because teams must cooperate to play a game, the NFL is a single entity.

The problem with this rationale, however, is that it glosses over the real issue -- whether an agreement unreasonably decreases competition -- and focuses on a common purpose -- presenting NFL football games.  Except Copperweld rejected in no uncertain terms the idea that a common purpose was enough to make multiple companies a single entity.  Additionally, the Seventh Circuit points to the need for cooperation between teams in areas like revenue sharing, scheduling, and rules, however other federal courts and the U.S. Supreme Court have, for over 50 years, noted this cooperative nature while still ruling that the NFL was not a single entity.

Whether the Supreme Court will embrace this novel reading of Copperweld and the Seventh Circuit's reasoning for calling the NFL a single entity is anybody's guess.  However, given the flaws in legal reasoning underpinning the American Needle decision, I would be shocked if they go as far as the NFL wishes.  My guess is that it's a 5-4 decision either way, with the Court either affirming the lower court decision on narrow grounds (i.e., a de facto antitrust exemption for marketing their intellectual property) or overruling the decision as the agreement was a Section 1 violation, announced on the last day of the term in June.

4 recs  |  Comment 72 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Great Post

Did you go to law school or something? You should do legal research for a living.

I’m amazed such an important case has gone unnoticed – how ever did this come to your attention!?

by DisplacedTexan on Jan 12, 2010 9:49 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

H/T to smartass, supra,

for bringing the case to my attention.

Dick.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

I had to rec for excellent smartassiness

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 12, 2010 9:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Yowza

Great analysis. I had actually started working on a similar post. This is a landmark case, both in sports law and antitrust law.

For the record, I concur with your prediction about what will happen.

Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Jan 12, 2010 9:52 AM CST reply actions  

Oral Argument Commentary

As a resident of our fine nation’s capital, I intend to go to the oral arguments tomorrow.

Notes and thoughts to follow… assuming I can get in.

by DisplacedTexan on Jan 12, 2010 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Excellent

If you do a FanPost on what you heard/thought, I will promote it to the front page.

Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Jan 12, 2010 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Thinking about this and the possibility of the owners taking the hammer to the players even further

After they are already under the employ of the crappiest sports union in America, makes me wonder if a competing league could start up. Well, that and the 30 for 30 USFL documentary.

You can make an argument that football is such a young man’s game that by the time most players are done with their rookie contracts, they are irrelevant. Pay the players so they don’t have to go to college and pretend they are scholars and you might have an interesting foundation. You could even start it as a feeder league.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 12, 2010 10:04 AM CST reply actions  

The players get 60% of all revenues as it stands, right?

So it’s hard to argue that the owners are taking the hammer to the players.

I agree with you about paying the young players, though. I think we should all professionalism at the NCAA D-I (or FBS) level.

The Texans.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 13, 2010 7:42 AM CST up reply actions  

But 60% of the revenues does not equal 60% of the profit. And in the long run, the players never really win in this league. Games maybe but the physical beating their body takes, I personally, don’t think is worth the money they make.

Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.

by BigNate7 on Jan 13, 2010 11:05 AM CST up reply actions  

The NFL rookie minimum salary for 2010

Is nearly ten times what the average American makes. Granted, NFL players have significantly shorter careers – 3.5 years on average. In that time, then, they will earn at least one million dollars.

I find it hard to argue that the players are getting the shaft (from a revenue standpoint). Long-term pension and benefits is another story. But I think the NFLPA gets more of the blame for that than the owners.

The Texans.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 13, 2010 12:25 PM CST up reply actions  

and the average American makes

ten times what the average third world countryman makes.

What? We produce more revenue than that third-world country?

You go to work as a pizza cooker for an owner of a pizza shop for $10 an hour under a one year contract.

Because of you the owner netted $1,000,000 when the year before he lost $100,000.

Now its time to negotiate year two. He offers you ten times what the average pizza cooker makes, $90 an hour. Do you accept this offer? Does the “average pizza cooker” salary even matter?

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 13, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Wait

So you’re saying that the Supreme Court justices would rule based on their ties/feelings, and not necessarily on the written law? Weird.

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Jan 12, 2010 10:18 AM CST reply actions  

To be fair...

Section 1 in this case has enough gray area that it’s more based on their interpretation of how Section 1 is meant to be applied.

But, to answer your question, yes.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

As MDC mentioned...

Anti-trust law is a bit of a bear. Especially considering what a corporation-friendly country we are.

I still think one of the better arguments against the NFL’s single-entity is the fact that the 32 teams have 32 owners and (I believe) they are free to withdraw their team from the NFL if they so choose.

On the other hand, the NFl isn’t REALLY competing against itself from a business standpoint. It’s all show and entertainment. The games are staged as a means of furthering the overall product (the game of American Football)… so you can argue that the NFL is competing with other forms of entertainment.

“The NFL: We’re Better Than Broadway”

by DisplacedTexan on Jan 12, 2010 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Really

I think there’s a strong case to be made that the NFL is more of a joint venture than a single entity. It’s not really any different than if two automakers decided to pool resources and build the best possible luxury car. They would have a common purpose — the car — and share many interests, but they would also have to abide by Sherman. NFL teams cooperate for the production of games, but they are still competing among themselves for purchasers of fan apparel, ticket sales, etc. If you give them single entity status, they can effectively draw up geographical areas where you can only buy, for example, Dallas gear AND they can set the price so that any Dallas gear you buy costs way more than it does now.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 11:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes and no

I’m not sure your car analogy is the best there… considering each company would still have their own operations AND they’re competing in the larger car market.

If you don’t look at the NFL as competing in the larger entertainment market, than really it’s a self-contained market. I do agree to some extent that they are competing for fan loyalty/revenue/etc etc. That the competition within the league causes the entire entity to get richer is a rather compelling argument, imo.

I’m more confident in Kennedy and Breyer than some might be. Kennedy has seemed to take to his role of swing vote quite well and tends to look at each case on the merits. And Breyer has shifted a bit to the left – plus I find it hard to believe he’d side in a case that would grant such ridiculous powers.

Ultimately I agree with your prediction… case upheld with a very narrow interpretation. Though that begs the question, why take the case in the first place? Over White House protests. Someone on the bench thinks this is the time to get it done (Alito or Roberts most likely.)

by DisplacedTexan on Jan 12, 2010 12:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, it only take 4 votes to grant cert

so maybe it was just those four that we assume are voting NFL anyway.

Yeah, the car analogy was not perfect.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

So if I understood this correctly

and the supreme court ruled in favor of American Needle, Walmart can start manufacturing NFL apparel?

Fucking Walmart always wins.

by Jordann on Jan 12, 2010 10:24 AM CST reply actions  

No, I wouldn't think so

It would mean that any apparel manufacturer can make a deal with any individual team/franchise. It doesn’t mean that any company could ripoff the logos and sell them for $5 each.

by distant_texans_fan on Jan 12, 2010 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Correct

Though it would also mean that the NFL could grant licenses to use all team logos, but that they couldn’t grant exclusives.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

1) If this would mean that Reebok cannot have exclusive rights to create headgear, wouldn’t that also affect their deal with DirectTV(please say I can finally get the Sunday Ticket through my cable company please please please).
2) Restricting player movement: How is it that this would allow them to force players to play for one team when the supreme court has ruled against MLB in that same circumstance.
3)I’m fine with a rookie pay scale that limited(not necessarily made all rookie pay the same) the stupid amount of money given to players who simply have not earned it.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 12, 2010 11:25 AM CST reply actions  

Answers

1) Not really. NFL has a specific antitrust exemption stemming from the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961, which was passed after the Supreme Court held that the NFL’s then-existing system of only selling games to networks in packages violated antitrust. So even if American Needle wins here, that exemption would not likely be affected.

2) Baseball’s antitrust exemption regarding labor was removed by the Curt Flood Act of 1998 and it spoke only to baseball. If the NFL overstepped and completely abolished free agency, Congress might pass a similar law for them. However, if they, instead, said that you had to accrue, say, 10 years of service before you could be a FA, if they are a single entity, it would probably pass muster.

3) Agreed. The lack of a rookie cap is one of the major reasons the owners opted out of the CBA.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Impressive post

Most impressive to me was half way through it you stopped and actually counted the words.

You didn’t ballpark it and say 1,000+. You said 1,100 words.

But I’m confused at the impact of any of the scenarios. If the NFL wins, its status quo regarding the headgear. If the NFL loses, worst possible case is competition amongst headgear providers across teams and within each team?

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 1:22 PM CST reply actions  

Yes and No

If the NFL wins on very narrow grounds, they basically have an antitrust exemption with respect to granting exclusive licenses (possibly for all team-branded stuff, possibly just for headgear, depending on the ruling).

If the NFL wins on the grounds they are arguing, the single-entity claim, they will have free reign to do nearly anything they please (with a few labor restrictions).

If the NFL loses, all they will have to do (most likely) is allow competition among hat makers by not issuing exclusive licenses. They will still have the right to sell licenses to use the logos; you won’t be able to start making Texans hats in your garage without first paying for the rights to the logo.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

shouldn't there already be plenty of precedent?

does each team have to buy helmets, pads, balls, etc from a common supplier, or are they able to shop around?

and wouldn’t this help/hurt their justification that each team operates as one entity?

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Equipment

I’m not sure about all equipment — and I think the balls are league-supplied — but I know there are three different (at least) helmet makers supplying the NFL and that teams wear a number of different shoe brands.

You raise an interesting point, though. If each team can supply itself from a number of different suppliers, that would seem to fly in the face a true single entity argument. The Seventh Circuit tried to sidestep this a bit with its “case by case basis” explanation and, if I am remembering correctly, Copperweld says that “unity of interest” is not defeated even where the parent corporation does not maintain super-strict control over the wholly owned subsidiary. In the end, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Supreme Court point to examples like yours as a basis for refusing to grant overall single entity status.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

so the NFL's single entity argument

would then essentially say we want to monopolize the brand selectively at our whim?

Are you a single entity or not?

To argue that competition in the hat arena doesn’t have merit because the NFL is a single entity and there are multiple helmet vendors (if teams can select their own) doesn’t fly with me.

Do I get a vote?

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 4:39 PM CST up reply actions  

You should get one

You’ve hit on one of the big flaws with the NFL’s argument. They are attempting to get a ruling that would let them make Sunday Ticket-esque deals in any arena they choose while ignoring that it took an act of Congress to give them the power to make the Sunday Ticket deal in the first place.

In fact…now that I think about it, that might be an out for the Supreme Court if they choose not to grant the broad exemption the NFL seeks. They could simply say that such an exemption is inconsistent with precedent and can only be granted by Congress. Good luck getting THAT group to agree on anything these days.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Also

Yeah, I ran a word check at that point because I was curious.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

cheater

I thought you went old school and actually counted them.

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I channeled my inner Rain Man

like the ruh-tard I am.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 13, 2010 8:21 AM CST up reply actions  

You hypothesized about the salary structure of the NFL

Where the NFL can dictate players’ salaries and they would be based on years of service. I hypothesize that this will not happen.

If it did, it would be a prime opportunity for a competing group to form a new professional football league. The new league would know what the salary structure was for rookies entering the draft and pilfer young players away by beating those salaries. The new league could also pilfer established star players the same way.

I predict that this will never happen.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 12, 2010 2:52 PM CST reply actions  

Just because you can offer more money...

does not mean that people are going to buy your new league as comparable with the NFL. Not to mention, you’d have to find at least 16 millionaires interested in competing against the NFL to field enough teams to drive interest, and you’d have to pull enough talent away from the NFL and the NFL draft to field a comparable product. This hypothesis is far less likely than 32 owners with no fear of antitrust laws artificially deflating high-end salaries.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 3:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I know, it has been tried before

Based on that, if the NFL hamstrings itself with that kind of salary control, then I would hypothesize that they are opening themselves to such potential competition. I wonder if we will ever see it happen so we can determine how it will play out. See you in five or ten years…..

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 12, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I would not pay to see a league

Full of Brian Cushing.

Or watch replays of a certain commenter fellating Brian Cushing.

All the Favre dick sucking that’s going on on ESPN is enough.

by Jordann on Jan 12, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Competition

serious competition to the NFL is tough, with all the momentum the league has.

But there really should be a football minor leagues. It would only help the NFL develop players/interest/money.

That’s why God invented Shreveport.

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM CST reply actions  

I like this idea

Except, the NFL has their practice squads, which, while it seems like they are wasting their money, the practice squad is a very important component in preparing the teams for game-day. Anything beyond that probably doesn’t work….unless they can show that it makes money. But, what if it does? Wouldn’t that inflate the salaries of the practice squad players? Then it makes it more expensive to keep a practice squad. Hmmm, lot’s to think about…..

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 12, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Somewhat related

practice squad salaries were the basis of the lawsuit in Brown v. Pro Football, which is the case where Breyer’s opinion flogged the players union something fierce.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

free market

the salaries of the nfl are all jacked up, what with the non-guarantees and all. But they have a union, so I believe neither side can bitch about their situation.

You don’t get what you deserve, in a situation like this, you get what you negotiate.

If the NFL were to use their powers to quash the union, I would be more sympathetic about their salaries.

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

The only problem

is that the NFLPA is pretty impotent because of the short career span of the average player, and they’ve never made serious headway into getting the NFL to guarantee contracts. The non-guaranteed contract would be insane in any other field, but it’s just accepted in the NFL as the way things are. That alone should tell you that the two sides aren’t exactly bargaining from equal positions of power.

Not that I really care if some guy feels gypped for getting only $4M of his $9M deal. If we’d just stop calling them “contracts,” I wouldn’t really have an issue with it at all.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 6:41 PM CST up reply actions  

this would require the farm team

to be geographically close to their parent club, but what if the practice squad was just increased to 45 players. The same 5-10 practice squadders (or a rotating bunch) practice with the parent, but play on Tuesdays with the minor league team.

It seems for player development, and the number of unsigned free agents that do well each year, this would have legs.

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 4:44 PM CST up reply actions  

A good why to develop coaches too.

It would be nice. The Rugby League teams do this in Australia. Well, they were doing it ten years ago. I might have to check how many are doing so now.

National Rugby League (Australia)

by distant_texans_fan on Jan 12, 2010 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Agreed.

Rugby League is incredibly boring. The top RL official actually suggested that they allow the forward pass on some downs to make it more exciting, but no one agreed with him.

by distant_texans_fan on Jan 13, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

and if Arian

carries us to the playoffs in 2010…. yay practice squad!

Mount Cody in round 1

by texanphil on Jan 12, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Competition question

Historically, the last time a start-up league was able to actually rival a currently in place entity was when the American League was founded in 1899. However, there are two important factors which facilitated the AL’s success. First, the AL was essentially replacing the defunct American Association, so the “World Series” was already in place along with a knowledge of how rival leagues can work. Secondly, and most importantly, it was “approved” by the NL, which was going through a period of contraction and didn’t fully understand how competition (or really, how talent raiding) would impact the elder statesman).

In other words, the monopoly the NFL enjoys simply ain’t going away soon. That’s not to say rival leagues cannot have an impact, as the ABA proved, but in both cases (baseball and basketball), the leagues were in relative infancy.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 12, 2010 5:30 PM CST reply actions  

The impact is more important than becoming a rival, IMO

You get a nice fat buyout check and change the game for the better along the way when the NFL realizes that people actually like common sense. Just play it in the spring and don’t let Donald Trump become an owner.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 12, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I guess it depends

The XFL or whatever was a total failure. The USFL was helped, in part, by a labor crisis. Plus, if you’re considering the USFL, they failed miserably financially in every respect vs. the NFL (except in a couple cases where NFL teams moved to NFL cities, not that we’d know about that). I think the USFL’s lawsuit against the NFL netted them…(looks at wiki)…$3.76. No millions or even thousands behind that number.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 12, 2010 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

The XFL was a total joke though

And yes, the $3.76 was cause Trump pushed the case rather than really letting the brand emerge as a competitor IMO.

Like I said earlier, I can easily picture a spring league based on stealing NCAA players by actually paying them. Then you just improve the product on the field the way it SHOULD be improved. Get rid of challenges, install the balls and first down/goal lines with sensors, and have the refs there to place the ball and call penalties. Let players have fun when they celebrate touchdowns. Get rid of stupid defensive penalties that force players to wuss out; replace them with bigger fines for those hits. Stop the insane amounts of TV timeouts. Put the fans closer to the field. Reach out to the fanbase instead of alienating them with PSL’s and the like. Create a set of overtime rules that actually works (How about a 7:30 half?), etc.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 12, 2010 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

The TD celebration thing kills me

I mean, a soccer player celebrates, on average, 25 minutes after a shitty goal.

I fucking hate soccer.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 12, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

To be fair about soccer

They only score a goal once every three years, so they overdo the celebration a little bit.

by distant_texans_fan on Jan 12, 2010 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Well...

what about the American Football League, which survived from 1960 to 1969 when it was absorbed into the NFL and resulted in the creation of the Super Bowl? (Coincidentally, the AFL was replacing the defunct AAFC, which is where the Colts, Browns, and 49ers came from.) To be fair, though, while the NFL had existed for 40 years when the AFL started, one can easily argue that the “modern” NFL was still in its infancy at that point, so your larger point is still valid.

Though not successful in terms of actually earning money, the USFL had some nominal success in court bringing antitrust suits against the NFL as a de facto monopoly. That has nothing to do with your point, but I am full of useless antitrust knowledge today.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 6:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I forgot about the AFL

Which is silly, in retrospect.

While the USFL was successful in lawsuits, not so much on winning them, unless one believes Pyrrhic victories are your calling.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 12, 2010 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

I imagine that Pyrrhus

said “scoreboard” whenever people pointed out the heavy losses.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 7:36 PM CST up reply actions   2 recs

Players Association?

These issues on the NFL doing whatever they want regarding players salaries and free agency would never happen due to the players association. They won’t agree with any moves that seriously impact the players earning power unless they get some powerful incentives in return (i.e. guaranteed contracts, lifetime medical care, etc.)

by battlered90 on Jan 12, 2010 9:12 PM CST reply actions  

A) The Players Assoc is impotent

as shown by the lack of guaranteed contracts, etc.

B) If the NFL gets single entity status, the NFLPA won’t have to agree because they will have no legal recourse. Which is kind of exactly the point of most of the article.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 12, 2010 10:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Wouldn’t a strike be legal recourse? Or in this case could the NFL just fine them until the strike ended?

Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.

by BigNate7 on Jan 13, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, a strike would be an option

but the owners just brought in replacement players last time that happened and told the players to piss off. There are always more than enough former college players who would love a crack at getting some NFL time, even as a scab. The only way I think a strike would work would be if the players absolutely refused to play the entire year and said so up front. That would put the onus back on the ownership to get a deal done before the deadline.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 13, 2010 11:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh, also

because the contracts aren’t guaranteed, and because the NFL would not be subject to antitrust laws, they could just decide to not impose cap penalties on any team cutting a striking player. The player would still be owed his guaranteed cash, but that would only save the guys who are making a ton and would not be cost-effective to cut even without the cap hit.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 13, 2010 11:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Would the NFL's response in this case

Vary by state? Do different states have different laws with respect to striking workers? Or does the antitrust exemption trump all that?

The Texans.

by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 13, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

My employment law is kinda weak

but if I remember correctly, the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (aka “The Wagner Act”) protected a right to strike for all firms/employers affecting interstate commerce (with a couple exceptions that aren’t applicable here). Now, assuming I’m not overlooking some later change that would make Wagner inapplicable to the NFL, any players who were cut while striking might have recourse under this act because the act prohibited, among other things, interfering with or restraining employees engaged in the exercise of their rights to organize or bargain collectively.

But that’s outside the scope of the whole Sherman/antitrust thing.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 13, 2010 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

huh?

Man I hope the NFL loses. Because then EA might lose its exclusive NFL deal, Madden might then get some serious competition, and it might start sucking a lot less. Which would be awesome.

by killtacular on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 PM CST reply actions  

Keepe in mind...

that even if the NFL loses, it would take another video game company wanting to compete with EA/Madden and being willing to pay for a license to do it.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 13, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions  

"Keepe" is apparently

my olde english spelling of “keep”

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 13, 2010 8:23 AM CST up reply actions  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backbreaker_(video_game)

or

2k would come back with a game. probably.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 13, 2010 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Right

But at least it would give me hope for the future, while an NFL victory would pretty much shut off all hopes barring congressional intervention.

Plus, the license cost would definitely go do if it stopped being exclusive.

by killtacular on Jan 14, 2010 12:09 AM CST up reply actions  

and

as nolander points out, sega put out a decent game back in the day.

And, hell, who owns the tecmo bowl license? :)

by killtacular on Jan 14, 2010 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Tecmo Bowl

The thought of a Tecmo return just made me giddy.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 14, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

err

“license cost would go down”

by killtacular on Jan 14, 2010 12:11 AM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Your big-time home for big-time analysis and big-time rants about all things Houston Texan.
Start posting about the Texans »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Third Round Compensation picks, Dunta Robinson, and you
Small
Bernard Pollard on 1560 The Game
Lst_gravatar_small
FBO: 2010 Organizational Rankings

Recent FanPosts

Stars_moons_planets_small
Waiting to Prevail
E5mjr-20080419031925_small
Devin McCourty Signs with New England
Stars_moons_planets_small
Over-Hyped Texans
Johns_small
Texans Sign Aaron Glenn
Defense-ryans-williams-okoy_small
NFL Culture Sharing
Small
Ten Things to Expect from the 2010 Houston Texans
Oilers4ever_small
Your Houston Texans are a Forbes top 10 pro sports franchise
Car-mario-stop-1024_small
BRB IDP Fantasy League Update
Lst_gravatar_small
Miles Austin has seized the WR crown
Stars_moons_planets_small
Texans Anderson and Jones Invade Cowgirls Territory

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Latest NFL Headlines from SB Nation

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Photo +2 updates

NFL Training Camps Get Underway: Schedules And News For All 32 Teams

Photo

2010 NFL Preview, Buffalo Bills: Chan Gailey Takes The Reins

Photo +2 updates

2010 NFL Draft Pick Signings: Rolando McClain Is The First Top 10 Draft Pick To Sign

More from SBNation.com >


Editor

Brb_small Tim

Managers

Receiverchart_small bigfatdrunk

Funny_kubiak_small Jake

Tex_small Mike Kerns

Authors

Dan_halen_small MDC

Falconry_t-shirt72_small tehGrindCrusher

Pimp_small DreKeem

45645325245243_038_small riversmccown

Dirkvdm_tamandua_small TexansDC