For Some Reason, Unfortunately, The Mario vs. Reggie Debate Still Continues...
Let me first start off by saying that I am still 100% in the camp of "The Texans Picked Right" by selecting Mario Williams #1 overall in the 2006 NFL Draft. I'm not going to be some Dickie Justice, Age 12, and write a negative Mario article just to get a rise out of people.
No, unfortunately there are plenty of short sighted NFL fans and analysts out there who are still wetting their pants over New Orleans Saints "running back" Reggie Bush's good game against the troubled Arizona defense this past Saturday. I'm not going to deny that he had a good game. But that's it.
A good game.
Yet, the media and callers on the radio (most of whom are likely Saints fans, as there are a lot of them in Houston) are back to saying the Texans messed up by picking Mario over Reggie in 2006. Which, to me, is just comical. I am willing to bet if you ask all 32 General Managers in the NFL today if they would rather have Mario Williams or Reggie Bush, short of maybe Al Davis, they're all more than likely going to take Mario.
A debate could be made that Mario did have an "off" year this season by playing through injury. He did not compile the flashy sack numbers he had the previous two seasons, but he improved greatly against the run and did still apply plenty of pressure on opposing QBs. That is the only way he got into the Pro Bowl this year "off of reputation." Texans fans may love to put Mario down sometimes, but he gets tons of respect by fans and players and coaches of other teams. They game-plan their offense for a guy like Mario Williams. When was the last time someone game-planned their defense towards stopping Reggie Bush? I am pretty sure it was when he was still wearing the cardinal and gold of a USC uniform.
The new argument is that Reggie Bush has "helped" the Saints get to the second NFC championship game of his career while Mario has yet to even taste the playoffs. Yeah, those 390 yards and 5 TDs he accounted for during the regular season sure were the deciding factor for this year's Saints. Also, and I may be a bit biased here, but the last time I checked the NFC South didn't have anything on the AFC South.
Everyone in the media (short of Mel Kiper) have recently admitted they were wrong about Mario and that he was indeed the correct pick. Yet, Reggie has one good game and the ESPN Hype Machine is back out of control. I guess that's just the nature of the beast.
Hey, one good thing out of it is that no one even mentioned Vince Young in that conversation though. I guess there's always a silver lining.
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90 comments
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Comments
I agree with you, and those are all good points, but how big is Mario’s girlfriend’s ass?
"It is a terrible thing to have ideals and a conscience, to say nothing of professional pride."
by indifferent5000 on Jan 19, 2010 8:45 AM CST reply actions
before this last game, that was all Bush was really recognized for, as Kim Kardashian's boyfriend
for a #2 pick, that’s pretty crappy, yet not a bad consolation prize
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Jan 19, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Tis the nature of the beast
ESPN is like a 5 year old with ADHD
Christian Ponder in 2011! Bring him home Wayne, he can actually play QB in the NFL
Big Cat Country Radio, Every Wednesday Night at 10 PM EST
by Jonathan Loesche on Jan 19, 2010 8:48 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
Ha!
That couldn’t me more truthful.
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LMAO
You can't fix Dumb or being a VYFB
by Texans-Brocos on Jan 19, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
I always wondered if GMs and owners sit around at home drinking Coors Light and laughing at how dumb espn commentators are.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
That's what Tim does
on the weekends.
Then he drinks a six pack of Zima and proceeds to have a conversation with Scott about who’s a better
punter. Matt Turk or Chad Stanley.
by Jordann on Jan 19, 2010 9:33 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What about seeing who’s a better kicker: Kris Brown or Chad Ochocinco?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Jan 19, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
F the chron & espn
dick justice is nothing more than a VY apologist and mcclain is nothing more than a closet cowboys fan. ESPN is a disney version of sports. NFL Network is far beyond any of them and could only get better if they drop that ramblin cokehead Irving and his undying love of the cowboys.
by TexanRyan on Jan 19, 2010 9:06 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
To be fair
I don’t think he is in the closet about it.
by distant_texans_fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
I was with you until...
…the link to Bleacher Report. I saw links to some other more visually stimulating articles. I drooled a little.
Where am I?
by HoustonTransplant on Jan 19, 2010 9:21 AM CST reply actions
I know not of what you speak...
/sarcasm
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Hey!!!
I’m on bleacher report. Oh well, to each his own. There are definitely some douches over there.
"...and if I claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that I don't know". SL
by Southern Lion on Jan 19, 2010 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
I think he was talking about the gratuitous boobs
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 19, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
boobs!!
And the flexible gymnasts.
/drool
by HoustonTransplant on Jan 19, 2010 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
I got that
just after I answered with the reply. It is difficult to stay focused there…..from time to tim…..what were we talking about?
"...and if I claim to be a wise man, well, it surely means that I don't know". SL
by Southern Lion on Jan 19, 2010 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Like Vega?
ZOMG I’m so funny.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 19, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I heard that
It’s not my fault I became a homeless blogger and gravitated toward a site with a bunch of boobs.
That’s the same way I started writing for DGDB&D
by Vega on Jan 19, 2010 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And the boobs
Were Matt’s.
He IS a C-cup, you know.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
It was you giving him the dirty half-and-half
that sealed the deal, though.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
"For Some Reason, Unfortunately, The Mario vs. Reggie Debate Still Continues..."
Only if you are a total and complete moron.
(The people who think this, not you, Kerns)
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I got ya
BattleRedBlog.com DontMessWithTexans.com
Clutchfans.net - Chuck 4 TexansTalk.com - Frak The Jags
Twitter - Zepp1978 Facebook - Zepp1978
Whatever
You know you meant Kerns.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 19, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Offensive players
always get more love from the media than the defensive players.
But the league knows who to fear.
Let's put this in perspective
You know how bad our run game was in 2009?
That’s Reggie Bush for his career.
And he’s no Dave Meggett in the return game, either.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
The fact is
Mario got in on rep
radio or Reggie bust would never get in on rep
case closed
by AllenOU on Jan 19, 2010 11:08 AM CST via mobile reply actions
The way Reggie Bust has played...
…he really would have had his value maximized as a 2nd or 3rd round pick. 1000 yards isn’t enough.
As a #2 overall pick, Reggie’s a bust. I’d be erupting if my team were paying him over 40, 50 million dollars.
It’s only an argument to your dumb, average fans. Mario’s a 2-time Pro Bowler and a big fatty away from really getting to Jared Allen levels of havoc.
the 2006 draft would have made more sense if MJD & Reggie would have swapped draft spots.
I’d rather play Reggie Bust twice a year than Pocket Hercules, & I guarantee looking back at it Saints fans would rather have MJD over their stable of RBs
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Jan 19, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
How can this even be a conversation?
Before the Saints’ playoff game, the Saints were said to be discussing what to do with Bush. At the very least, he’s looking at taking a pay cut. Is anyone talking about cutting Mario Williams or telling him to take a pay cut? Even if the Texans had taken Bush, everyone would be complaining about Bush and his fumbling problem.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Jan 19, 2010 11:44 AM CST reply actions
Reason number one
Why I disregard virtually the entire body of work of the MSM, be it in sports or anything else.
It feels like I’m freebasing dog poop when I say this, but even BBS is a better analyst than most of those in the MSM.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 19, 2010 11:58 AM CST reply actions
BANNED
You can't fix Dumb or being a VYFB
by Texans-Brocos on Jan 19, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Dear Tim,
Someone has hacked tGC’s account and is posting inflammatory material. I have flagged the offensive post, but I thought you might like to look into this further.
Yours in Durga,
MDC
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
by MDC on Jan 19, 2010 12:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Someone call the police
I think Brad is holding tGC hostage
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Jan 19, 2010 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Oh my
tGC, you’re going to need to turn in your BRB super-friends ring and matching cape.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 19, 2010 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
It's not like it's a particularly high bar to set, now is it?
I’m not saying BBS is particularly good or anything, but compared to Little Dicky Justice, Peter King or (heaven forbid) Don Banks?
It’s like watching drunk retards fight in mud.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 19, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd Drunk Retards around the world are insulted that you compared them to those guys!
You can't fix Dumb or being a VYFB
by Texans-Brocos on Jan 19, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
The thing is
Most level headed fans of the Saints say that Bush is basically a love/hate relationship. He’ll sit out/be injured, be largely ineffective, and not make much of an impact for the whole season, and then have 1 game where he shows what he can do. As a #2 pick he’s quite a bust, but it’s not his fault he was drafted so high and got his knob slobbed by every talking head on the planet for about 2 or 3 years straight.
All that being said, you don’t hear the level headed fans much. It’s always the psycho retards that can only point to his TEAM being in the post season, and not anything that he’s done individually. I hate that crap, it smells of VY love.
yeah, but it's even more irrational than the vy thing
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 19, 2010 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah but when you get to that irrational
It’s like saying “The Holocaust was way worse than the Armenian Genocide”. I think the VY stuff is perpetuated more here because there are still (will be nameless) bloggers and radio personalities who beat the VY drum on occassion. IN HOUSTON. WHERES MY GUN.
Good lord, how bad are the public schools now if you don't know that!
You can't fix Dumb or being a VYFB
by Texans-Brocos on Jan 19, 2010 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
My comment was ironic on so, so many levels.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 19, 2010 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Its ok I got it
The sad fact is though that public schools don’t teach about the Armenian Genocide that I know of, just like you don’t hear about China during the cold war but you hear about how bad of a guy stalin was all the time
www.manningface.com
Reggie has come nowhere near the hype, but he would have had to be the second coming of Patrick Willis to even come close.
There shouldn’t be a debate at this point though. Mario has put himself in the upper echelon of pass rushers, even with his off year. Sure there are many people who would take a Jared Allen (fuck him) or a Freeney over Mario as a pass rusher…and that’s fine. It doesn’t matter if he’s universally considered the “greatest” as long as he’s near universally considered in the top ten or so….especially because he’s also developing as a better run stopper than most of the other elite pass rushers. He’s proved himself “worthy” of the top pick.
I think we’re a little to harsh with the bust label for first round picks mainly because everyone wants their first round picks to be a hall of famer and the greatest ever at their position. It’s taken some time, but Bush has carved himself out a nice role on the Saints. He does play a big part in their offense and there’s no way you can call him a failure of an NFL player at this point even if he didn’t live up to expectations completely. The saints finally quit trying to make him into something he’s not and let him focus on the things he excels at. That doesn’t mean that Mario isn’t clearly the better pick, because he most certainly is/was.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
I dont think he is a failure as an NFL player but he still is a bust just b/c of where he was taken in the draft. I agree with TexansDC that if he was taken later in the draft, he wouldn’t be considered a bust. I mean I could point to Mr. Mittens as he is a bust but apparently not a failure as an NFL player. Only Durga knows why he still gets paid and has a Superbowl ring.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
I don't think he got a ring, did he?
I thought the year the Gints won it, he was with Carolina.
If that motherfucker did, I quit sports. that’s a fucking slap in the face to every football fan, player, and coach.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Yea, I think you are right. But still, the fact he is still in the league is a slap in the face
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
I love...
how lil dickie justice (age 12 yrs old) and those like him, the Cowboy fans, and Mr KardashianFBs and VYFBs, always attack the Texans with, “oh your team hasnt even made the playoffs blah blah blah. I would take VY or Mr Kardashian any day over Mario blah blah blah!” How much has Mr Kardashian or VY done to help their teams? because I can tell you how much Mario has helped mine. And shit we had casserly Effin our team in the A and C-ing all over our chins for so many years. Southern Oklahoma can keep their Megalomaniac Owner, and their over priced wanna be teh schaub! NO can keep their over priced 3rd down back!
Go Texans!
I just think it is funny that Saints fans forget how it took them 20 years to have a winning record.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
oh guess what
We play Dallas next season… I wonder what Dickie will have to say when the cowgirls come to town and the Texans beat them.. I wonder if he will continue to kiss Jerry the megalomaniac’s @$$ then?
Go Texans!
I'll take the "yes" on that one
Then 14 paragraphs pining for VY.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
But the Cowboys will still be "more interesting"!
If you define “interesting” as “aging, overpaid, and prone to choking in big games”, at least.
by Nashmeister on Jan 20, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
There's only one argument that Reggie Bush wins over Mario...
Luckiest SOB ever
- Makes #2 overall money to be a “specialist” and not having to take 300-400 carry beatings every year.
- Is on a winning team without helping them win
- Is Mr. Kardashian
Yeah
That’s not a bad deal…
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I'd take that deal
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Jan 20, 2010 12:29 AM CST up reply actions
I don't even..
call him Reggie Bush anymore because of the Woman with that uber sexy ass and horrible personality. I think that Mr. Kardashian should be put into the Glossary.
Go Texans!
Perspective of a Saints fan living in Houston.
Born in N.O. Lived in Houston for 35 years. I love both cities. The Saints are my #1 team but I’ve always rooted for the Oilers in the past and the Texans currently (being in different Conferences makes that a lot easier 99% of the time).
With that brief bio out of the way, I’ll give you my take. Number 1 draft picks are usually a crap shoot at best to begin with. More times than not, those players fail to live up to their hype to varying degrees. It would have been almost impossible for Bush to have done so given the degree of publicity he had coming out of USC.
Going into the ‘06 draft, New Orleans didn’t plan on drafting either Williams or Bush (or Vince Young for that matter). Like most everyone else, they assumed Houston would take Bush. When the opportunity arose, they changed their plans and took him. Nobody faulted them for that at the time and it would have been universally thought to be stupid had they not done so.
Shortly after Reggie made his “flying” touchdown for the go ahead score in the Saint’s comeback win over Miami, Don Banks in Sports Illustrated made the best comment I’ve ever heard regarding him: “Just when you begin to think that Reggie Bush is no where near as great a player as his pedigree would indicate, he makes some otherworldly play that perhaps no one else in the league could make.” I agree that he hasn’t been the impact player I envisioned on a consistent basis. But, I also totally disagree that he’s been a “bust”.
If the comment posted above saying the majority of NFL coaches would take Mario over Reggie at this stage is accurate, I think it’s equally accurate they would also say they have to game plan for Reggie much more than for other players with similar stats. A lot of the success the Saints have enjoyed is because opposing teams can’t ignore his potential of a game changing play – even in games where that play doesn’t materialize. Did the Saints get to the NFC Championship because of Bush? No. Did he play a significant role in making that happen? Absolutely.
The Mario/Reggie debate will not be successfully concluded until both players careers are over. It is currently an “evolving” argument. If either player were to have a career ending injury next year, that would end the debate right there. But it would hardly be the “fault” of the player getting injured. Like I said, first round draft picks are a crap shoot to begin with.
It is true that Saint’s fans have a love/hate relationship with Reggie to a certain degree. But it’s a definate that the lovers outnumber the haters to a large extent. This is at least partially true to the fact that virtually everyone in the city “likes” Reggie. Despite the fact that he can sometimes be a hotdog and despite his public image to those not most familar with him, Reggie has embraced the city in a way that few people expected. He has done numerous things for the city by both personal and financial contribution. Out of his own pocket, he paid for the refurbishing of a high school football field and a couple of city owned baseball parks after they were destroyed by Katrina. For the past year and a half, he has resided in New Orleans full time. Contrary to popular belief, Kim visits him there much more than he goes back to California.
The bottom line is I would be happy to have either player on my team. Oddly, I no longer hear too much of the “debate” anywhere but Houson. The only thing I find annoying about some people’s argument in favor of Mario is their feeling they have to put down Reggie in order to make their argument more valid. Mario is good enough that an argument can be made on his behalf without the “Mr. Kardashian” jokes.
Congratulations on your past season and good luck towards making the playoffs next year. Just imagine the “Mario/Reggie” story lines if the Texans and the Saints were to face off in the Super Bowl.
by Drew-Dat on Jan 19, 2010 4:40 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Okay
So, do you renegotiate his contract this year or do you go ahead and let him ride with his huge bonus?
If Saint's management calls me for my opinion.....
I’ll tell them it would be preferable to renegotiate his contract. They haven’t called yet.
Very Nice
Drew-Dat your post is the best thing I have read on SB Nation in over month. It has insite, clarity and perspective. If I could add anything to this discussion it would be the fact that Bush will never be more than a satellite (10-12 touches per game) player. This is not a put down of Reggie but rather an acknowledgement of what he is as a player. I just watched him carve up the Cardinals defense and ST’s. Much to my consternation, Bush could not be stopped.
The debate of Bush vs Mario Williams is pointless and simply fodder for media types that lack the neccessary skill to talk intelligently about the game and thus fall back on these kinds of “topics”
Bush is a special player for specific amount of downs during a game. Bush is one of the games explosive perimeter players. He lacks the great instincts of the top backs and has not shown a consistent desire to run with the physical presence between the tackles to establish himself as anything more than a part-time player. A ground game can’t be built around the Bushes’ of the world.
Mario Williams is a special player and is worthy of being selected where he was selected imo. Williams is a complete player that you build your defense around. He’s a corner stone. . He’s more run stuffer than pass-rusher but his up-side would be realized if he had more “help”.
Both are great player for their respective franchise’s. If I had to choose between the two players……it would have to be the Mario brother!
by Cardsfan81 on Jan 19, 2010 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
great post,
but my calling him Mr Kardashian has nothing to do with him, it just to the fact that he is dating a skirt that became popular because she has a sex tape with Ray J and if it wasn’t for that video neither Ray J nor Kim would be famous and that she is probably as well or more known than Reggie Bush. I being a Texan Boy, have disliked Mr Kardashian, since his days at USC, I have thought he was overrated, and more hype than he was worth, and with his performance in the Rose Bowl and his professional Career, is a specialist at best. I will say his philanthropy is great but he wants to payback his paychecks while at USC lol jk.
Go Texans!
i haven't read all of these comments but i'd like to point out one thing.
this came as a shock to me but super mario is in the top 5 in sacks over the past 4 years. again, i haven’t checked to see if someone has already said this. super mario> Bush
Rockets>>>>>>Jazz
Texans>>>>>>>Titans
Super Mario>>>>>>>Vince Young
Can someone redo that picture at that top
It should read.
“PRO BOWLS”
“The difference between #1 and #2”
“One of these players has been invited to two of them”
by distant_texans_fan on Jan 19, 2010 7:05 PM CST reply actions
I almost
used a picture of Mario tackling Reggie but why have Reggie twice when I can have Mario Sacking Peyton Manning???
Go Texans!
Hook 'Em Horns
Glad VY is out of the picture
But that image is wrong regardless. Bush’s team helped him get to 2 Conference Championships, not the other way around. The guy has one good game and people starting blowing there loads about him just like it seems fashionable to do about brett favre
In Canada our balls are bigger
amendment
i’m not saying bush was riding the coattails of his team, what i’m saying is he didn’t carry the team either
In Canada our balls are bigger
by canadian texan on Jan 19, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions
I'm missing the point....
Someone help me
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I like how Mario's been clearly better for four years...
until they show Kardashians celebrating a Bush garbage-minutes up-the-middle punt return.
This changes everything.
Longest Atlanta Falcons winning-seasons streak: 2008 - current
I know
Reggie Bush, the NFL’s version of a victory cigar….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
View of another Saints fan who lived in Houston
When Bush gives 100%, I’d say he wins hands down. Unfortunately, all too often, he doesn’t. Williams does. Bush’s inexplicable timing to his flashes of brilliance require him to be taken seriously by the opposing defense, giving the team value even in an off day; but Williams can be counted on by Houston’s coaching staff. Hate to admit it, but in the grand scheme of things, Williams gets the nod. On another note, what do you guys feel is missing from the Texans being a postseason threat? Is Kubiak the issue, or is it something more complex?
Who dat, from a cajun exiled to cowboy country.
by alcoholic_insight on Jan 20, 2010 10:42 PM CST reply actions
Kubes inability
to manage the time is a problem. this season there were many times I was like call a timeout, run the clock etc etc. but for the most part that isnt the thing that keeps us out of the postseason. It is the fact we are missing a few components on our team to finish games. This team has seen the light though, and I believe even if we don’t get a chance to fill those positions, which i have faith we will, The Texans will be a better team next year!
A bit of bad luck
Some boneheaded play calling, and our defense is probably not quite good enough just yet. If we draft as well on the defensive side of the ball this year as we did last year we may well make the jump.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 21, 2010 5:54 AM CST up reply actions

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