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Around SBN: Terry Collins, David Wright, And The Mets/Brewers Kerfuffle

NFL.com mock draft

well NFL.com has released their first round mock draft here.  It has us taking Safety Earl Thomas  but i'm not completely sure why.  Considering "Bucky Brooks - Analyst" thinks that Terrence Cody is going to be picked thirtieth (30th!) I am going to chalk this one up to the usual "Nobody knows shit about the teams that are not high profile dynasties".   Don't get me wrong, I think Thomas would be a good fit but i think if we're gonna draft secondary, we should get a CB first.  our safeties really are not as piss poor as they used to be thanks for the addition of testosterone.  We need Cody or a CB or G / C depending on what's available.     agree? disagree?

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I really am having a hard time understanding all the Cody love. I just see him as a fat 2 down player who will spend the first 2-3 years of his career trying to get in shape and adjust to the speed of the NFL.

Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed

by DaGoaT on Jan 20, 2010 7:19 AM CST reply actions  

I see him

as a 350-lb monster who is athletic enough that he can dunk a basketball at that weight, strong enough that he should shorten the learning curve and eat up two blockers consistently (freeing Mario and Amobi), and agile/quick enough that he blocked two FGs against Tenn and more or less won the game for them.

Considering we’ve never had any of that at the NT position, I’ll take it.

I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.

by MDC on Jan 20, 2010 8:47 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

he or Dan Williams

I fully, truly believe we need to make this a priority to help in both the pass and rush D. Yes, we got better, but considering what we threw out at NT this year (Cody, Zgonina), I think an upgrade here makes us that much better. If we go OG in the 2nd, the dropoff in quality won’t be nearly as severe as it would be for NT.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 20, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I love this debate!

We can all talk about OG, DT and FS until we are all blue. Imagine what the Texans’ braintrust is going through? I am most certain (which translates to “never wrong”), that the Smithiak conglomerate is debating the same as we are. OG, DT, FS…all areas of need, all positions that will have some talent available at 20. This is exciting and it is setting up great for the Combine when these guys will be out there getting measured, questioned, timed, and being asked to turn their heads and cough…

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 20, 2010 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

If we don't take a NT in the first

We probably won’t be able to till the 4th. Its hard for me to not say NT is our biggest need, on the fact that yes our corners and safeties could be better, but we don’t even have a single NT on our roster. Not ONE.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 10:38 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You could get a good OG in the 3rd too...

Alabama’s Mike Johnson is a name being thrown about for round 3.

I’m with you bfd, a good NT turns this line into something scary similar to what’s in Minnesota.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

For his sake...

I hope he doesn’t follow in the footsteps of his former teammate Andre Smith and pull a “drive-by” at the Combine…. There are enough questions about Cody going into the Combine, that he needs to make a showing and a good one at that. He has to convince teams he is “that” player that you describe as a game-changer. And, if he does? Then, he probably won’t be on the board at 20 and the Texans will be looking elsewhere. Right?

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 20, 2010 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Heres the short of it.

A good Saftey makes our secondary a little better and helps in the run game.

A good NT (who actually performs as advertised) makes EVERY aspect of our defense better. Hard to throw the ball when Mario is raping you because the NT is eating up the double team.

If there is a LEGIT NT we have to take it imo.

"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related

by TexansForever on Jan 20, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Amobi Okoye would be a huge beneficiary of a true double-team eating NT

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 20, 2010 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I look at what Kevin Williams does…and know that Amobi can do the exact same thing.

I look at what Jared Allen does…and know that Mario can do better.

I look at what Ray Edwards does…and know that Antonio Smith and Connor Barwin can match him.

We just need our Pat Williams. We need a guy who’s gonna eat up space and interior linemen which helps Mario, Amobi, Contonio, DeMeco, and the DBs.

Average DBs look better when that ball A) isn’t coming B) is coming before the WR runs his route or C) is wobbling cause the QB threw it as he got hit.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

And, will the DT available at 20 be that guy?

If Terrence Cody is astounding at the Combine, well, he might not be there at 20. It is pretty much assured that Brian Price will not be there. Will Dan Williams? It isn’t likely. Is there another NT in the draft that will possibly be worth the 20 spot if those three players are gone?

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 20, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Price is only 300

There really doesn’t seem to be any NTs after Williams or Cody worth picking till the 4th. For w/e reason most mock drafts have Williams or Cody or both dropping far enough for us to pick them.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

This.

And to add onto that, I do think we’ll have at least one of those available at #20.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 1:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Well... if you're into those sorts of things...

I SUPPOSE it would be nice to have the franchise’s first ever true NT.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 20, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Hatin' on Seth Payne ?

You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.

by CFHTim on Jan 20, 2010 2:10 PM CST up reply actions  

No way...

I loved Payne to death. I just think he was more of a try-hard guy, playing out of position, than he was a real NT.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 20, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

I just thought the injuries were too severe.

When he was healthy he was at least the best NT this team ever had.

You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.

by CFHTim on Jan 20, 2010 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

If he as amazing as you make him out to be

than why are his numbers so horrible while he’s playing against college lineman? You think he can get sacks in the NFL or more than 28 tackles while playing against NFL lineman? I know he was double teamed at Bama, but so was Suh and Suh’s numbers are still amazing across the board. Maybe the reason Cody’s stock is falling is because he’s not actually that good. Its good to be big, but its not always good to be Cody big.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 22, 2010 10:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Its not all about sacks

Collapsing the pocket so other people can get the sack doesn’t tend to show up on the stat sheet.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 23, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

This

If Cody is there when we pick, it is a must take, in my opinion.

www.DontMessWithTexans.com

by Mike Kerns on Jan 25, 2010 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

there is a big difference between Cody and Okam my friend

Okam has size. Cody has more size AND athleticism to boot. i’ll be the first to admit i know very little about him past what i’ve seen on the field tho. i’ll trust smithiak to make a good choice… yet again… despite any previous doubt last year lol

Looking forward to not having an 8-8 year!

by BattleRedHusker on Jan 20, 2010 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Not a big fan of trading up.

But if we can draft Thomas and trade up for Cody(if he does drop to 30th), would that be too much of a reach?

by Jordann on Jan 20, 2010 9:38 AM CST reply actions  

Depends on what it will costs us. If we look at Cleveland a few years ago trading up to get Quinn, it cost them that years second rounder and a first the next year (and maybe another pick, not sure). While they were trading up to the 22 or so spot, that is still a big price to pay and ended up costing the GM and HC their jobs. Given the situation Kubes is in, I think it pretty risky and out of character for him to make such a bold move.

Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.

by BigNate7 on Jan 20, 2010 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Also not a fan of trading up

The Texans are still in the position where they need their draft picks and giving up multiple picks to move up isn’t a good long run move. I like where the Texans are at 20. There will be some talent there. They should have choices, too. I think they will have choices to make between their areas of need, OG, DT and FS. Plus, I think they will have multiple choices at those positions, especially OG, if that is where they decide to go.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 20, 2010 9:55 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm a Texas fan...

but I don’t want to see Earl Thomas in Houston. Especially when a NT is on the board.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 10:20 AM CST reply actions  

Rational thought on Texans' draft picks from a horn?????

The world is ending, isn’t it?

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 20, 2010 12:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Put your head between your legs, beefy

and kiss your ass goodbye.

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Jan 21, 2010 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

The goat needs a break, anyway, beefy.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 21, 2010 8:01 PM CST up reply actions  

ya my ass is pretty raw

Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed

by DaGoaT on Jan 22, 2010 7:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I think you were pretty well compensated,

so I don’t want no sass out of you, boy.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 22, 2010 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see the benefit in drafting Thomas in the 1st

When Nate Allen, Morgan Burnett, and Darrell Stuckey will all likely be available in the 2nd and I at least think it’s questionable if Thomas is really that much better a prospect than any of the three. This is just a good year for safeties, there’s like 5-6 of them that in normal years would be 1st rounders, but since they’re all in the same class there’s going to be a few really good ones available in the 2nd.

Personally I think CB is a way bigger need for us than NT, but that’s an argument for a different time. If we were to pick a NT in the 1st round however, i’d rather it be Dan Williams than Cody. For one, alot of the talk about us picking Cody is he would somehow improve our pass rush, yet most scouts agree that rushing the passer is actually a weakness for Cody, not a strength. He’s also been known to “take plays off”, has had stamina issues the longer a game/drive persists, and one site I read describes him as not being very versatile, lacking in lateral agility and compares him to Shaun Rodgers saying “Cody is a slightly less talented version of Shaun Rodgers, but he comes with the same concerns with potentially getting too big and lacking a consistent motor.” We just got rid of a talented 1st round DT who took plays off, do we really want to play footsy with another?

by Bryan72076 on Jan 20, 2010 2:11 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah...

Why I’m starting to lean toward Williams some. Not totally, but I get your point.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 20, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I need to watch more film on Williams as I didnt see much on him during the year but I am leaning toward him over Cody myself. If they are both gone I would be happy with Earl Thomas. If hes gone too, then I dunno wtf we should do. Trade down I guess.

Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed

by DaGoaT on Jan 21, 2010 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

As far as safeties go, you’re also forgetting a guy like Vanderbilt’s Myron Lewis who can play CB/S or even Myron Rolle from Florida State who’s in the draft too. The falloff from top guy to mid-round isn’t so drastic (when you take out Eric Berry).

Agreed on Williams over Cody.

I should flag you for calling Travis Johnson talented though…what are you on? haha.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 2:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Rolle would be awesome

Simply because we could then say we had a goddamn Rhode Scholar on the team.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Moving to the 3-4 ain't so easy

I think this discussion is starting to finally die, but I know how much of a kick Jordann gets from it. Anyway, Bills not moving to 3-4 because – gasp – they don’t have the personnel for it.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 20, 2010 2:16 PM CST reply actions  

Technically

The bills don’t have the personel for a 4-3 defense either.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

to elucidat

DE – Stroud
NT – ?
DE – Kyle Williams

OLB – Maybin
ILB – Poslusney
ILB – Kawika Mitchell
OLB – Schobel / Keith Ellison

stole it from the comments of the article, but honestly this would be better for them then a 4-3 right now I think, especially if Schobel retires. They also have a good enough secondary to lean on to help the transition.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

As far as NT's go...

I think everyone can agree that we need a true NT who demands to be double teamed, can kill a run game, and get pressure on the QB. The problem is, so does just about every one else. There just aren’t that many guys like that….and even less who can come in and do it consistently right away. If the staff finds a guy who they think can pull it off, I’m sure they will take them if they can. If not, we’ll just be one of 25+ teams looking for a dominant force on the inside again.

"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair

by papabear on Jan 20, 2010 3:43 PM CST reply actions  

exactly

There’s a big difference between being able to take on a double team and actually forcing one. Cody is big enough to take on a double team without getting totally pushed around, the problem is he’s not a great pass rusher so he’d never get double teamed on passing plays.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

If he wasn't double teamed on pass plays

I bet he would still push around the chump trying to block him enough to take away any room for the QB to step up and avoid the edge rushers.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 12:27 PM CST up reply actions  

that's unlikely

He has good power but below average lateral agility. In college he got away with just bullrushing opposing linemen, he’s not going to be able to bully people as much in the NFL and he doesn’t have the technique or athletic ability to play any other way. Plus he’s struggled with conditioning his entire playing career, the chances of him being a 3 down player are slim to none.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

You realize

teams pass on downs that aren’t 3rd down right? Look at Haynsworth, he isn’t an ever down player but has a huge effect on a teams pass rush.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 1:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

But when a player doesn’t play on obvious passing downs, his impact on the passing game is limited from the start. That added with the fact that he’s not considered a strong pass rusher, it’s reasonable to assume he wouldn’t improve our pass defense all that much.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Again

see Haynesworth. You really need to realize that teams quite probably pass as much if not more on non obvious passing downs. Go look at the Titans pass rush last year vs this year.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Cody isn't Haynesworth

Haynesworth is a strong pass rusher, Cody is not. Haynesworth, despite not being able to play full time because of conditiong/injuries, doesn’t come out specifically on passing downs, Cody will. Comparing a guy who projects to be a 2 down run stopping NT to one of the premiere pass rushing NTs in the NFL doesn’t really fly.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you are missing my point

and you still refuse to acknowledge that teams pass on more then obvious passing downs. If he can have an impact when he is in the game and they do pass, he can do it as a 2 down player, which is why I am comparing him to fat albert, since fat albert tends to sit out a bunch of snaps.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Also...

Albert is not a “strong pass rusher.” He’s just a giant man who can collapse a pocket, thus making him very effective in the passing game, regardless of what down it comes on. “Strong pass rusher” implies he’s busting out Freeney type moves, and doing alot of stunting. That’s not the case.
Agree with nolander, absolutely.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 22, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Keep in mind...

Mario’s and Barwin’s best moves are outside speed. A big NT collapsing the pocket gives the QB nowhere to go.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 22, 2010 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

You're wrong

Haynesworth has excellent agility and quickness for a guy his size, Cody is just big. Haynesworth has the explosion to get to the QB after getting past his blocker, Cody is just big… Just because both are giant fat guys doesn’t mean they’re going to play the same or that you’ll get the same production out of both.

Saying he’s a strong pass rusher isn’t saying he’s ‘busting out’ Freeney type moves, Freeney is a speed rusher, he’s not going to ever be confused with a NT nor is a NT ever going to look like Freeney. That doesn’t mean that only speed rushers are good pass rushers. Haynesworth is effective in the passing game because he’s very good at reading and shedding blocks, then has the quickness at his size to put pressure on the QB. Even if Cody knocked his blockers on his behind, he’s not quick enough to consistently put adequate pressure on the QB.

As much as I dislike Haynesworth, it’s an insult to say he’s just a big guy who collapses the pocket. It’s extremely rare to find a NT that has Haynesworth’s size and ability to shut down the running game and also have the agility and athletic ability to be able to put pressure on the QB as well. It’s not as if just any giant fat guy can fill that role, or the league would be full of them. Cody is just another monsterous run stopping NT, that’s not to say he’s not a good NT, but he’s not going to be your next Albert Haynesworth, no ammount of wishing will make it be so.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions  

"What's" not a country I've ever heard of... do they speak English in "What?"

You have completely missed everyone’s points so far, so I don’t know why I would be any different.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 22, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I understood

You said “Albert Haynesworth is not a strong pass-rusher”

And I say again, you’re wrong.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 3:34 PM CST up reply actions  

What makes him this great pass rusher?

The fact that he’s never had more than 10 sacks? The fact that, even counting last years monstrous total of 8.5 sacks, he still only averages 3.5 per year, over his career?
Or is it that, exactly like nolander and I have alluded to, he affects the other players’ sack numbers and the defense’s overall effectiveness because of his abiltiy to collapse a pocket with pure strength? Strength and immovability normally shown by the bigger (340+lbs.) NT’s of the league.

Where you’re completely braindead is by insinuating that effectiveness from one player or position doesn’t affect the other players or positions. Look the shit up yourself. I’m done with you.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 22, 2010 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

or for example

Taking up a double team, freeing up Okoye, Williams Barwin or Smith.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said it didn't

But commanding double teams and still getting 8+ sacks makes him a pretty good pass rusher in my books. Believe it or not though, commanding double teams on passing plays and “collapsing pockets” is part of rushing the passer, an area that most scouts agree is a weakness for Cody. The problem is Cody won’t demand double teams therefore it’s a moot point.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Prefer footballsfuture to walterfootball

but there’s a sentence in there that can hurt your argument

“Cody isn’t going to fit most teams running a 4-3 scheme.”

There’s also the Shaun Rogers comparison, the 2nd round label, and the hot/cold motor.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Dude

One was a preview of a college football game, you can’t seriously mean to imply that the same scouting reports will apply when he’s going against pro linemen.

The other was the same one that gives the following info..

  1. Weaknesses:
  2. Lacks lateral agility
  3. Not very versatile
  4. Motor runs hot and cold
  5. Loses stamina late in games
  6. Not a productive pass-rusher
  7. Might be too big and could affect long-term health
  8. Could stand to lose some weight in his “bubble”
  9. Leverage can be a problem
  10. Really looks slow at times
  11. Doesn’t make many plays outside the phone booth
  12. Lacks range

Summary: Terrence Cody is a solid nose tackle prospect, but I can’t put him on the same level as a Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork just yet. Cody isn’t going to fit most teams running a 4-3 scheme. His lack of stamina might really hurt him on Draft Day. He is a projected second-round pick at this point. Cody is going to be a two-down player in the NFL.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a fan of this

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2010danwilliams.php

My favorite line: “He’ll be a great fit for teams like Miami, Cincinnati, Houston, Denver, San Diego and Minnesota.”

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Exactly

Dan Williams is a much better fit for us than Cody. As I said before, if we were to pick a NT in the first, it should be Williams over Cody by a country mile.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

This is a concept I would definitely entertain

But Bryan, you really have to do a better job of making sure that you are clear in this point.

So far, your posts have not done so. They have sounded as though you want absolutely no part of a true NT in the 1st Round.

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Jan 22, 2010 4:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Because

I feel we’d be better off going secondary. I have mentioned in previous posts that Williams would be a good fit for the Texans and if they picked a NT it should be him.

However, depending on how things work out in free agency before the draft, we might have a pressing need at CB that would dictate we choose need over best player available.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sorry

That I don’t have an orgasm over one NT or another in every post, that probably would have made things more clear, but I just feel that we have bigger needs than NT right now, even though an improvement at the position would be nice. You can’t totally disregard potential disaster areas for one bright shiny new toy.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

No one said

to disregard the secondary. You can address needs in rounds other then the first believe it or not.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:37 PM CST up reply actions  

come on dude

How many times do I have to point out that other then Williams and Cody there so far isn’t any other NT worth picking till the 4th outside of the guy from East Carolina who might be a reach in the 3rd? If we have a choice between a NT who is rated the same as or better then any CB or FS available, it makes no sense to pass up the NT to me when we can get a good corner in the 2nd in what is an extremely deep class of DBs.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

If the need is CB

then we need to trade back to about 25/28.

That would maximize value on the CB (Probably Ghee) and grab some extra picks (another 2nd or 3rd or 4th in this draft would be a great deal).

CB at 20 would be a pretty big flop though.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Problem is

The reason we would love to trade down is the same reason no one will want to give up picks to trade up.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes

But you can’t discredit those elite 8 teams (who have less holes and will be extremely limited in FA) wanting to jump up for that “one missing piece to the puzzle.”

A team like San Diego or Baltimore or Minnesota could jump up if they really want someone and fear him not being there.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I like being back in the draft

It’s better than being in the top 5 and knowing who you’ll take.

One day….pick 32. That’s what I want.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I almost never want to be in the top 10

If not just because of the money. And yes you smart asses, I also never want to be above 32 ever because I always want to win the super bowl.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 5:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with that 100%

but if we’re at 20, and the CB we’re targetting will be gone by the time we pick in the 2nd round and can’t trade down from #20 or up from our 2nd round pick, we have a tough decision to make.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:38 PM CST up reply actions  

The way I see it…

If Bulaga, Iupati, or D. Williams are gone….

We should be considering trading back to grab Ghee.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions  

If we want Iupati in the first

I bet we can trade down and still get him, although we will have to see what happens to his stock(which has been rising).

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Good article

So far, we have mostly relied on whatever we see, read or hear in the regular season, bowl games and early mock drafts. Now we are getting into the All-Star games and another source for information. Here is an early report on the East-West Shrine Game practice sessions.

I have enjoyed catching up on everything said in this string of posts.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 22, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions  

More on the East-West Shrine Game

Here

and Here

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 22, 2010 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Good read, Rip

Hawaii C John Estes was projected to be a 7th rounder. That could be a good late round pick the Texans wanna keep their eyes on after his great week…that is if they could tear their eyes off of BYU TE Dennis Pitta.

OG Brandon Carter could be someone we keep an eye on for his power.

Personally, I love Bowling Green WR Freddie Barnes as a possession WR…he’d be good in the slot (if Jacoby moved to the #2) or outside in the KW role (allowing JJ to be a HUGE mismatch in the slot).

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

mittens

r we running a “skinny post”?

by b0wse on Jan 26, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes we are Mr. Owens.

Now, hand me that key to the city of Buffalo so I can brush my hair with it!

by Jordann on Jan 27, 2010 2:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I've never denied that

It’s just not relevant. A team that is around 10th in run defense and 23rd or so in pass defense, needs to somehow get the pass defense to catch up with the run. Obviously improving the secondary, who are going to be on the field in every down and have a direct impact on stopping the other team’s passing attack will have a greater impact than improving at NT for 2 downs when 20-30% of the team’s defensive snaps will be without him at the least, especially when that player has been flagged by scouts as being a better run stopper than pass rusher. Yes teams pass on 1st and 10s, but unless our defense is god awful there’s going to be quite a few obvious passing situations where he won’t even see the field so during that time even if he’s awesome when he plays, he is having 0 impact on the team. It’s not like we’d be better off defending the pass with him, or he wouldn’t be coming out in obvious passing downs. So really the point you’re making about teams passing outside of passing downs really only strengthens the case that it’s not the best fit for us. If he’s not the best option rushing the passer, which he wouldn’t be if he were coming out passing downs, and you’re saying teams pass so much, why should we want a guy like that at all?

My stance is we shouldn’t draft a 2 down player who’s strongest against the run over a potential every down secondary player who has the best chance of improving our coverage.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

The reason he would be coming out is because he weighs 350 pounds just like Haynesworth. He could still have an impact when other teams pass.

Either way as I have said time and time again, there are NO NTs worth taking till the 4th, outside of one guy who MAYBE might be worth the pick in the 3rd.

On the other hand there are so fucking many DBs available we will still have our pick of a number of FS or DBs in the 2nd and 3rd round. You refuse to acknowledge this, and you can argue until you are blue in the face, but if we want a NT to make an immediate impact, its pretty much 1st or bust. We can get DBs who will make an impact in the 2nd and 3rd.

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by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem with that is

Most NFL scout disagree with that assessment. They don’t see him as a force in runshing the passer, in fact it’s known to be a weakness of his. And yes, i’m sure “collapsing the pocket” counts as putting pressure on the QB. If the general consensus is that he’s a run stuffing NT that will struggle in the passing game and has to fix his conditioning issues, it seems odd that when he’s talked about here it’s the effect he’s going to have on our pass rush that gets first, second, and third mention when just about every scout i’ve seen of agrees that is an area of weakness for Cody. Wanting him to be something he’s not, no matter how bad you want it to happen, doesn’t make it true.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions  

how about you address this instead of sidestepping it ever time

On the other hand there are so fucking many DBs available we will still have our pick of a number of FS or DBs in the 2nd and 3rd round. You refuse to acknowledge this, and you can argue until you are blue in the face, but if we want a NT to make an immediate impact, its pretty much 1st or bust. We can get DBs who will make an impact in the 2nd and 3rd.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I've responded to that in several other threads.

Basically because we don’t need to add a NT, where considering injuries and our #1 CB potentially leaving, we likely will have to improve our secondary to even be as competent as we were this past season. Spending a first round pick on a NT isn’t a luxury we have this year, especially when the guy you’re speaking of is getting a 2nd round grade by many scouts now. This is from one on Cody..

“# Weaknesses:

  1. Lacks lateral agility
  2. Not very versatile
  3. Motor runs hot and cold
  4. Loses stamina late in games
  5. Not a productive pass-rusher
  6. Might be too big and could affect long-term health
  7. Could stand to lose some weight in his “bubble”
  8. Leverage can be a problem
  9. Really looks slow at times
  10. Doesn’t make many plays outside the phone booth
  11. Lacks range

Summary: Terrence Cody is a solid nose tackle prospect, but I can’t put him on the same level as a Casey Hampton or Vince Wilfork just yet. Cody isn’t going to fit most teams running a 4-3 scheme. His lack of stamina might really hurt him on Draft Day. He is a projected second-round pick at this point. Cody is going to be a two-down player in the NFL.

Wait, don’t we run a 4-3?

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 3:53 PM CST up reply actions  

facepalm

dude do you not understand the concept of what I am saying?
1) Most anyone will tell you you are wrong that we don’t need a NT. We do, how early we should pick one is debatable, but we do need one.
2)We can improve our secondary in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
3) We disagree here, but I feel a NT who can take double teams automatically improves our pass rush.

Its point 2 that you can’t seem to wrap your head around. Are you really that thick?

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:18 PM CST up reply actions  

That's another area we disagree in

By the 20th pick in the 2nd round the top 3-4 CBs will for sure be off the board, and from their the talent level drops significantly. If we grabbed one in the first, there’s a decent chance of getting a starting quality corner out the gates, by the time we pick in the 2nd round there won’t be a corner worth a 2nd round pick, and in the third we’d be picking for potential that can mature rather than a player that could legitimately contribute on defense right away. If Robinson leaves we need a CB either in FA or through the draft who can immediately contribute.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Except...

There’s 1 (maybe 2) who will be gone by our pick at 20….and another 2 who will be a huge reach there.

We’re not at a good slot for CBs in round 1.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

We're not at a good slot for NTs either

Unless Williams’ value rises before the draft. As of right now, Williams is a late 1st to 2nd round pick, and Cody is probably a 2nd round pick but shouldn’t be even considered by Houston in my opinion. There’s a good chance that whether we take a CB or NT we’d be reaching, but those are the two position on defense we need to improve the most.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

This is where I have to disagree

We have some capable CBs right now, even if we lose Dunta. Another can be picked up in FA or later in the draft (i.e. Quin or McCain last year).

We have NEVER had a NT on this football team. Ever. (Damn you, Okam) It ranks as a higher need than CB….since we actually
 have a few of those.

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Jan 24, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I disagree with your reasoning

The fact that we have “NEVER” had a NT does not make it a bigger need than CB right now. When evaluating the team you have to look at the current roster, not the team history.

While we dont have a true NT, we were still very good against the run after the first 3 weeks. We sucked at covering receivers the entire season and with all the hate of Dunta here im surprised more people dont see CB as a bigger need.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 24, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions  

The fact that it's a need

Doesn’t change the fact that there’s no one to fill the need at #20.

Joe Haden, the top draft cornerback, will not be there. Donovan Warren, the 2nd best CB who’s overrated, will not be there.

Ras-I Dowling is going back to school.

Brandon Ghee and Patrick Robinson? The highest I’ve seen either of them go is 28, 29. The lowest? Mid-to late round 2.

You can’t fill the need at #20 in the draft. That’s why no one is clamoring for a CB. There’s no point to it.

by TexansDC on Jan 24, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

and the same can be said about DT

the top ones will be gone for sure (Suh, McCoy…) and Brian Price, Dan Williams, and Terrance Cody could also be gone or not worth the value at that pick.

DT is a need, but we might not be able to fill the need at #19. Where do we go from there? CB? Safety? OG? WR?

Thats why, IMO, debating only about DTs is pointless because they could all be gone just as easily as we are talking about them being there.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 25, 2010 4:10 PM CST up reply actions  

forgot to add OLB to the possible 1st round pick list

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 25, 2010 4:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I’m not sure what you are basing Williams stock off of, but I’ve seen plenty of places saying he would be a good value for us at 20. I would actually prefer Williams over Cody, but would be happy with either.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:33 PM CST up reply actions  

While Williams was a 2nd rounder a few months ago...

His value is rising. He thrived under Monte Kiffin and unless he completely bombs in February, he’ll be seen as a good pick at 20.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yet

The same site that mentions Williams’ stock could rise enough that he’d be a good pick at #20 also had this to say about Ghee..

“Summary: Ghee has some fixable attributes to his game, but he is a high upside player, and will likely be a better pro than college player. If he is impressive at the Senior Bowl and in workouts, it wouldn’t shock me if he is a first-round draft pick. Ghee has some intriguing physical tools to work with and can match up against the bigger receivers in the league. I love athletic, confident corners, but there is no doubt Ghee needs to be more polished at the next level.

Player Comparison: Jonathan Joseph. Joseph, like Ghee, has the same size and athleticism coming out of college, but he was also a little raw. Now, he is one of the better corners in the AFC."

I t hink it’s within reason that by the time the draft comes around, Ghee could sneak into the top 25 conversation.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 22, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Akwasi Owusu-Ansah

Sleeper pick (Rd 3 or 4)? Worth taking a look at, lots of comparisons to Dominique Rogers-Cromartie from the Cards.

by JollyGreenBucket on Jan 23, 2010 11:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Most years maybe

But this year is extremely deep at DB.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 22, 2010 4:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Just so maybe this can stay in one thread instead of having to post more and more NFL draft fanposts

Kiper’s first mock has the Texans taking UCLA DT Brian Price.

Right position, wrong type of player, Mel.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 20, 2010 5:51 PM CST reply actions  

Kiper?

People stopped listening to him a LOOOOOOONNNNNGGG time ago.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 20, 2010 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

In his defense...

At least he has us going after the right position…

He’s at least done some work in-between those hair sessions with Carr.

Unlike this NFL.com idiot…

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Any telivised haircuts upcoming Mr. Mittens ?

You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.

by CFHTim on Jan 21, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Just as a point of order.

Does anyone seriously believe that ALL of the top ten picks will be linemen? Brooks has all of the first 10 teams picking either an offensive or defensive lineman. And 16 of the 32 first round picks are linemen.

Does anyone really believe that will happen?

by distant_texans_fan on Jan 20, 2010 6:19 PM CST reply actions  

I think teams will end up reaching

for some skill position players in the top ten.

You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.

by CFHTim on Jan 20, 2010 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

When Sam Bradford's going 26th...

Which insinuates that 25 other teams are okay with their QBs, that’s a stretch….

And Taylor Mays (and his 4.3 speed) making it past Oakland? Really?

I know Anthony Davis and Bruce Campbell are skyrocketing from their 2nd/3rd round status, but top 10 picks?

Eric Berry at 13? (I’m not even considering that he’d go the Willis-worshiping San Fran which would turn him into a demi-god, but still)

That mock was all kinds of wonkers.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 8:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Solid analysis....

I tend to agree that Bradford will get snatched up by somebody. I can think of a few teams that could use his services. I’m not predicting they will draft him. One could make a case for all of these teams: Cleveland, Oakland, Seattle, Carolina, Buffalo, St Louis, Jacksonville…all picking in the top half of the draft, I believe. You might be able to add Minnesota to the lists of teams that might want to pick a QB, depending on what Favre does. But, we won’t know that before the draft, I’m sure.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 20, 2010 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Even if Favre comes back next year

The sooner they take another QB the better, unless they truly think TheVirus Jackson is going to every be a real franchise QB.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 10:36 PM CST up reply actions  

They could probably

could a good guy who could learn…

McCoy, Pike, Jevan Snead, Dan LeFevour, and even a big kid like Jonathan Crompton. There’s some depth to the QB class that could let them sit and learn for a year and then walk into a team with Percy Harvin and Peterson.

by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2010 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah

I don’t think they walk away from the draft without taking someone in the first couple rounds.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 20, 2010 11:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Re: QB's

Don’t forget that you can pretty much set your watch by most all the new HC’s taking a QB early, because it guarantees them at least 3 years at their job. You can almost fill in QB’s taken by the Bills, Skins, and very likely the Seahawks in rounds 1-2. For that reason alone, the top 10 won’t be all linemen.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 21, 2010 11:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Take the player with the most talent in the 1st round unless extremely necessary

Do yall remember how we felt when Brian Cushing was drafted?
Yet, he was extremely gifted and determined. That’s what takes to be successful.
Otherwise, position needs are important 2nd round and on…

Just my philosophy lol

by Kotlondon on Jan 21, 2010 4:31 PM CST reply actions  

SLB WAS a position of need last year, though.

Most people would’ve just rather had Matthews back then.
Personally, I was hoping for a trade down, and get Darius Butler in the late 20’s.

Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.

by beefy on Jan 22, 2010 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Can I get an explanation as to why everyone wants us to draft a "NT?"

Nose Tackles are what’s needed 3-4 systems and not so much needed in the 4-3 system. Looking at the 9 teams that finished with better rush yds/game allowed than us, only 3 teams run a 4-3 like us. None of those 3 teams, the Vikings, Bengals, and Eagles, have a huge “NT” that clogs up the line of scrimmage and demands double teams. Yes the Vikes have the Williams twins, but neither are huge defensive tackles, they are just both amazingly good. The Bengals and Eagles dont have an amazing DT or a huge “NT.” Of the 6 teams that run a 3-4 and had a better rush yds/game allowed in 2009, only the Cowboys have a starting NT that weighs less than 315.

I think people here are too enamored with Terrance Cody because yall think we have to fit in to a certain system to be good. Terrance Cody will not be worth the 20th overall pick. Right now he is a 2nd rounder almost anywhere I look and he will probably stay there unless something crazy happens at the combine. Not only is Terrance Cody not an option in the 1st round for us, we dont need him anyway. Why would we want “dominant” defensive tackle who only had 28 tackles, 6 TKL, and 0 (zero) sacks in 2009? Cody may take up multiple defenders, but thats all he can do.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 22, 2010 11:11 PM CST reply actions  

You didn't read the debate. Bullet points.

In football, there is what’s called a 4-3 NT and 4-3 UT (undertackle). It’s not just a 3-4 term.

Kevin Williams is similar in size to Amobi Okoye, but Pat Williams is a space-eating NT.

People (here/everywhere) are souring on Cody, but Dan Williams is the other talented NT.

Cody is not a 2nd rounder and will land as high as Miami or as low as Minnesota. Take that to the bank.

Stats for Cody…how conveinient you left out the blocked FGs. Beyond that, his play goes beyond the stats. He clogs the middle and that helps on the running game – even if he is only a 2 down player.

by TexansDC on Jan 22, 2010 11:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I skimmed the debate...

and I understood the NT vs UT debate, but those terms aren’t widely used on the internet. Also, how is NT or UT determined? Is it just weight? Is it playing style? Is it something else? Is it a combination?

Yes Cody has blocked FGs, but does FG blocks in college really translate to FG blocks in the NFL? With Cody, if he is a 2 down lineman, he wouldnt be on the field for the FG because he would already be too gassed. What happens with Cody if we for a 3rd and 2 but Cody is too tired to be on the field for the likely running play??

IMO, its kind of like the Mario vs Reggie Bush debate. While they play different positions, it was known that Mario would be a 3 down lineman while it was a question as to whether Bush could play more than 2 downs. In this instance, Dan Williams, while smaller, is more likely to be a 3 down lineman than Cody and is a already rated higher than Cody. Im a fan of taking Dan Williams, but not Cody.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 23, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

So either can be taught to anyone just like an OL switching positions on the line.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 25, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really

They have different technique, but someone who weighs 300 pounds simply doesn’t have the mass to do what a NT does usually. Its really a bit of both.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 26, 2010 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

but guys weighing 315 do??

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 26, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

It’s not to do with mass…

A good NT should have physical presence and strength. He’s got to be able to collapse the pocket to the point where he demands 2 guys take him on. At that point, he needs to maintain the point of attack which clogs a lane or two, shields a C/G from getting to the MLB, and frees up every other DL to go one-on-one (unless the offense is willing to keep a TE or back in to help double which cuts down on targets downfield). If that NT can still collapse the pocket with 2 men on him…then he can force that QB to move out of the pocket to a waiting DE or even a blitzer.

Guys, like Lamarr Houston, are too small to do that. There’s no “correct” weight, but it typically is a larger man….6’3’’-6’5’’ and 315-350….but the key is how fast he gets off the ball, how great his balance is, and how strong he is.

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 12:02 AM CST up reply actions  

Cody may take up multiple defenders, but thats all he can do.

Thats… his job? The idea is when he is taking up multiple defenders Williams Okoye Smith can really get after the QB. Williams as DC said might be a petter pick, but either way having that NT there to eat up space, take away the middle on runs, and occupy multiple pass blockers that would have been keying in on Mario before is the whole point.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 23, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions   2 recs

To summarize the general idea

People (such as me) believe we are a talented NT away from having a Vikinsesque line, which will suddenly make our secondary look a ton better.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 23, 2010 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Why would he occupy multiple blockers

When he’s the worst pass rusher on the line and isn’t a real threat to get to the QB? Just because you put a giant fat guy on the line doesn’t mean offensive linemen are going to be magnetically pulled to him, he has to earn that attention and the general consensus among scouts is that Cody will not… Which is why he’s refered to as a 2 down run stuffing NT pretty much only adaptable to 3-4 defenses.

You could have the best line ever assembled, they can’t make garbage look like gold. Last year we had 2 nickle backs fighting over the #2 CB job and a #2 CB (who might not even be with the team next year) playing #1. If we go into next season starting two nicklebacks, it doesn’t matter if we have this year’s pro bowl defensive line, we’re still going to struggle against the pass. Maybe Robinson resigns, and maybe Quinn improves in his second season, but if they don’t we need competent corners way before we worry about assembling the best front 7 in the league.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Im your side about Cody

but I dont agree about the CB vs good d-line argument. A great d-line would put more pressure on the QB, which in turn takes pressure off the CBs. If the QB is being sacked more and has less time to throw the ball, the CBs know they wont have to cover for as long and due to that will have more confidence and it will appear that they are playing better because they are only covering the WRs for 2 seconds instead of 3 (i just made up those numbers but you get the idea). It also works the other way around though. If a team has great corner backs, they will make the QB hold onto the ball longer and the line would probably get more sacks/pressure, making the d-line appear better.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 23, 2010 4:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure

But it can only help but so much. A great line can make a good secondary look great, average look good, or below average look average, but it can’t make a horrendous secondary look great. There’s no doubt that a strong front 7 helps take pressure off the secondary, but it doesn’t take all pressure away from them.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 4:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Domato Peko.

See the Bengals defense with him and without him.

That should answer your question.

by Jordann on Jan 24, 2010 5:55 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

whats our biggest problem?

CB in every game it was Dunta this and Dunta that, FS WHEN we didnt bitch about CBs it was our safetys either barber, busing or who ever we had did something wrong and the QB burned us for it, O-Line someone needs to block someone in the damn running game, And at last DT noone complained about our DTs as much as we did about the above, so what the big deal with the damn DT?

living the Texas dream

by Joe25 on Jan 23, 2010 3:28 PM CST reply actions  

Again

DT can help the run defense and pass rush (which aids our DBs). Our pass rush was in the bottom 3rd of the league. It needs to improve. While Amobi made progress, we lack a big space-eater on the line to clog running lanes and collapse the pocket which would force the QB to scrabble out to the DEs or make bad passes.

At #20, there’s no real CB worth taking. FS draft depth is so good that you can take a starter-quality in the 2nd round (not an urge to go out and get one). 4-3 NT has little depth…..which is why people want to address that first and foremost.

At #20 the choices seem to be OL (Bulaga, Iupati, one of the other OTs) or space-eater DT (Williams, Cody, Price). Of course, everyone thinks we’ll draft a RB, but that’s not the Shanny way.

So it comes down to a OL or DT….and well, most people feel that the DT can help Super Mario, Amobi, Smith/Barwin, Ryans, and the DBs. That’s what we want from our 1st rounder…immediate impact.

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Ever think that our pass rush was so poor

because our secondary couldn’t cover their grandmas going for the all you can eat buffet? I mean, our front 7 did it’s job in every other aspect of the game, they even got pressure on opposing QBs, but when a QB can take 3 steps and have his choice of 2-3 open recievers, there’s not but so much any pass rush can do.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

The slot isn’t there for a CB. You and I can go back and forth on DB vs. DL, but a CB at 20 is likely going to be a big reach.

FS depth is so good that the fall off from Earl Thomas (who would have been better suited returning to school) to a guy like Nate Allen isn’t that much.

There’s just no reason to harp on a DB at 20.

As for your thought, no. I look at the Vikings who have an average secondary , and they get pressure because of their front four. I look at our front four and think Zgonia/Cody/whomever is a huge weak link. We don’t collapse the pocket at all. When the QB doesn’t need to move around…there’s a problem.

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I say it doesn't matter if it is a reach

A year from now it wouldn’t matter whether he was projected to be a 20th pick or the 30th, if he turns out to be a quality player. I’m saying CB is a bigger need for us than NT unless Robinson returns, Quinn improves or we bring in another free agent CB to compete for a starting job. So big a need in fact that i’d be totally happy with “reaching” and picking a player 10-15 spots higher than he would have gone had we not picked him.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

The likelihood that there will be a deserving DT at 20

is about the same as a CB or Safety. If we dont want Brian Price because he is a UT and not a NT, than that leaves Dan Williams and possibly Cody available for us at 20. Looking at DBs there is Donovan Warren, Earl Thomas, and possibly Patrick Robinson. If we are only looking at DT and DB than we may be SOL at pick 20. I think we should go best available if Williams, Warren, and Thomas are gone and that could leave us with just about anyone. I would be okay with drafting G Mike Iupati, WR Arrelious Benn, DE/OLB Jerry Hughes, OLB Sergio Kindle, OLB/DE Brandon Graham, RB CJ Spiller, or WR Damien Williams. All of those players fill a need, although it may not be one of our biggest needs, we are at the point now in personnel where we can draft best available for any need.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 23, 2010 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

When I say our secondary was bad

I mean that it was God-awful, possibly even historically bad. We made piss poor QBs look hall of fame worthy, and no that wasn’t because we weren’t getting a good pass rush. It’s because literally 1 sec after the snap there’s at least 1 WR who’s already wide open on any given play. There have been occassions where we’ve had a rusher with a relatively free path to the QB, who then throws it 10-15 yards downfield to a a reciever who for some reason doesn’t have a defender within 5 yards of him. Our secondary was that bad.

What’s worse, the best player we had back there may not even play for us next year. I’m not saying you should be running in the streets in a wild panic, but i’d completely understand if you did. The idea that bringing in a NT of all things would make this impending cotastrophe melt away to me is like sitting in the middle of your house that’s burning down around you trying to convince yourself that it’s not getting warm at all.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Calm down on the hyperbole

That historically bad secondary was 18th in the NFL in pass defense.

Who was 19th? The Minnesota Vikings. Why don’t we rip the Vikings for a bad secondary? Their pass rush is AMAZING. They stop the run. Why does their pass rush work? Their front four is awesome.

Mario Williams – Jared Allen (Elite, blind-side speed rusher)
Amobi Okoye – Kevin Williams (Both athletic DTs who can pass rush)
??? – Pat Williams (Big, fat, space-eating NT)
Antonio Smith/Connor Barwin – Ray Edwards (Some dude)

Of course, most people will tell you Minnesota plays good-to-great defense. The difference is that big NT named Pat Williams. He clogs the running lanes and shields the LBs from linemen. He takes the C and the G which sets up one-on-one matchups for the rest of the DL (blitzing DBs or LBs can get by easy!). That front four is what makes that defense. That’s why an average secondary can be masked. That’s why there’s so many people asking for a NT because it really is what’s keeping us from playing like the Vikings do (except our LBs are better).

The CBs aren’t shutdown guys. They may develop there, but they won’t have the impact a Dan Williams could have on this defense. You can harp on the CBs, but they’re not even that good. Joe Haden’s the best….Donovan Warren regressed this season at Michigan (a school who sucked on defense) and is 2nd best. Both of those will be gone by #20. Brandon Ghee was a 2nd-3rd round pick who gets bumped up because Ras-I Dowling stayed in school. There’s just not good value in Ghee at 20 especially when a NT can turn that front four into the best in football.

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 6:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Minnesota – 2nd against the run, 19th against the pass, 1st in sacks
Houston – 10th against the run, 18th against the pass, 25th in sacks

Sacks prevent throws. Consistent pressure forces throwaways, ill-advised throws, and batted balls. If a QB is throwing off his back foot or on the run, he tosses floaters or less accurately than normal.

If you can’t run up the middle then you go outside. If that LB isn’t blocked, he gets there as you try to turn the corner.

Against this team, if you get behind then you’re forced to throw. If everyone knows the opponent is throwing well we can tee off with our front four. We can bring in Cushing or Pollard on the blitz. We can create havoc like Bush was so rumored to bring. We can bring havoc like the Vikings do. This is why people want Dan Williams.

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually the difference between the Texans D and the Vikings...

Many of the Vikings sacks and pressures are aided by their coverage whereas ours is hindered by it. If the only thing that mattered defensively was the front 7, then CBs wouldn’t be among the highest paid players in the league. Every year there is at least one team grossly overspending on an average CB, because believe it or not it’s a critical position defensively. Last year we only had 1 CB who possibly could have started or at least been in contention for a starting job with most other teams and unless we sign him or franchise again he won’t be playing with us next year. You can try to convince yourself that we don’t really need starting CBs as long as we have a really good fat guy in the middle of our line, but that’s not going to do us alot of good as we’re watching teams move the ball up and down the field through the air. Getting pressure on the QB is good, and if there’s a NT in the draft that can help us with that.., well that’s awesome. But if we’re starting two backup CBs, all the pressure in the world isn’t going to stop us from giving up massive ammounts of yards.

If we resign Robinson and the coaches have faith that Quinn will develop or we bring in another free agent to compete with quinn, i’d be more than happy with NT in the 1st. If none of those things happens though, we need CBs before anything.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 9:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Their CBs aren't great

Winfield? He’s great in run support, but he’s lost a step to the point where he was relegated to the 3rd CB because he couldn’t keep up with Miles Austin. He gave up 6 TD (tied for 2nd worst in the league). Quin’s great in run support and developing in the coverage game.

Sapp? The undrafted rookie played better than expected, but he’s no shut down CB.

Starting CB Cedric Griffin? Everyone loves to point to Dunta’s horrid PFF ranking, but Griffin’s even WORSE than Dunta.

Safeties? Madieu Williams and Tyrell Johnson are just some dudes.

Yeah, the Texans don’t have a true shutdown corner, but not every team does.

Like I said, passing wise? The Texans and Vikings were neck and neck in pass yards against. In fact, the Texans had MORE interceptions than the Vikings. Your argument that the Vikings have great corners is completely and statistically false. They had a comparable unit to the Texans. Again, the defenses are similar. Yards, rankings, personal…..the difference is sacks, pressure, forced fumbles, and Pat Williams.

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 9:33 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said we had to have pro bowl caliber CBs

I’d take Winfield over any of the CBs we tried out at #2 this year. I also never said the Vikings have great corners. What I said was alot of the Vikings pressure is aided by their coverage whereas our pass rush is hindered by it. The Vikings don’t have the best secondary in the league, but they do cover routes long enough for the rush to get to the QB, ours does not. We blitzed alot this year, and despite the comments to the contrary, we put defenders in the backfield regularly. The problem is we couldn’t bottle up recievers for even a short period of time, that was just as much the problem as QBs “stepping up into the pocket”.

The Vikings secondary is not compareable to the Texans’, it’s not even close. Once Wilson went down we didn’t have a safety who was even competent in coverage, both Vikings safeties cover fairly well. PFF ranking be damned, Griffin was by far better in coverage than Robinson this year. And pretty much every CB on the Vikings roster is as good or better than what we put out at #2 this year. Everyone’s in love with Quinn for now because he played pretty good “for a rookie”, but as a starting CB it was a flip of the coin whether he would play competently or piss poor on any given day, or play for that matter. The Vikings have a better secondary, not because they have alot of interceptions or pro-bowlers, but because they do what is asked of them. This year at least, ours did not.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 23, 2010 9:49 PM CST up reply actions  

You must’ve broken down every game tape of the Vikings to have those opinions. You provide no statistical back-up and cite no specific games.

You say things like piss-poor and historically bad, and yet 13 teams were worse in pass defense in 2009. The Vikings had a QB Rating against that was the 6th worst in the NFL (QB rating is a factor of yards, completion percentages, TDs, and INTs). The Texans 19th worst. The Texans also gave up fewer 1st downs through the air. So how do the Vikings have the better secondary? How are the Vikings DBs doing their jobs?

The Texans got burned so much? The Vikings gave up 8th most passing plays of 20+ yards and 13th most passing plays of 40+ yards. The Texans? 7th fewest on 20+ yards and 19th worst on 40+ yards.

You say every CB is as goor or better than the Texans….where’s your proof? Everything is saying otherwise.

We blitzed “a lot.” Again, where’s the proof?
Plays are neglibile since teams end up with roughly the same amount of snaps. Here’s the numbers:

Houston: 30 sacks, 128 pressures
Minnesota: 48 sacks, 169 pressures

Are you gonna dismiss the numbers again?

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Last week, The Viking front 4 demolished the Cowgirls line. They can keep 7 back because that front can get pressure.

If that front four plays a simlar game tomorrow, the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl. If Brees has time then he’s picking apart the secondary that “does their job.” They aren’t the Jets with a secondary so good that they shut QBs down. The Vikings rely on their line to dominate and the Texans are 1 piece away from doing the same….because Mario Williams is a lot better than that idiot Jared Allen.

by TexansDC on Jan 23, 2010 11:00 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You don't need stats

Watch the games, count mississippis from snap till the time the ball leaves the QB hands on completed passes, if you’re consistently less than 3 as was the case this year when I watched the Texans, your secondary isn’t holding up it’s end. The vikings on the other hand, the few time i’ve watched them.., when they get to the QB I have usually counted over 5, that’s an indication that the secondary is pulling its weight. Believe it or not, football isn’t about statistics, watch the game and pay attention to the details and it’s pretty obvious. I would take this year’s Vikings’ secondary over ours any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Again, that’s not to say theirs is the best, but if you want the games it’s clear they performed better than ours.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 12:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Again

I’m not a walking stats sheet, but I did read an article or something somewhere that actually kept track of blitzes and the Texans were at the top league wide, so i’d say they blitzed alot.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 1:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Sacks over 3 seconds are coverage sacks. We’d have to rip through the game film to identify what the coverage does or not. For you to make claims off a few games isn’t substantial enough.

Using pure numbers like I’m doing isn’t substantial enough because you need to take game footage and use it along side numbers.

One thing numbers can tell you is blitzes, as you suggested. I don’t want to rank the teams on blitzes, but the Texans blitzed, according to PFF, at least 128 times. For anyone reading who doesn’t get how I got that number, a blitz is when you bring more than a DL in pass rush. PFF has Cushing in 128 “pass rushing” situations. They don’t have total numbers, and I’m not sure what site does because there’s times where Cushing isn’t brought/on the field and others are. The Vikings? 78 is the highest non-DL number. 50 play difference which shows they rely on 4 man rushes allowing them to drop 7 to (as you say) put more men against the pass. If a team maxes out to 5 WRs then everyone is covered with 2 able to help. That could keep guys covered enough to hold them past 3 seconds.

A team like the Jets can lock down with their secondary to bring pressure, but we don’t have the secondary for that nor can we amass that. By drafting a Dan Williams then we would, potentially, have a line that could get pressure by itself allowing 7 to drop back and do what you say the Vikings do…slow down the QB enough to get sacks/force more pressure for bad throws.

The Texans can still get a FS in round 2 (Nate Allen’s among 3 or 4 2nd round quality FSs) and grab a playmaker CB like Kyle Wilson or Javier Arenas (while re-signing Dunta) to have an improved (solid) secondary to play similar to the Vikings.

We’re not going to be able to build a Jets-like secondary, but we can do enough to build a better defense by bringing in a DT to help 4 man rushes (affording the LBs to help in the passing game) while also strengthening the weak spot in our front 7 (to fortify our run game from 10th to top 5).

No one’s dismissing that we need to improve the secondary, but at pick 20 the best value would be Dan Williams over a Brandon Ghee especially since we could still pick up a starter quality FS in round 2 and a good CB prospect in round 3 (if the Texans went that route). The Texans are shooting for the playoffs next year which means the 1st round pick needs to bring as much impact as possible. For that reason, the pick should be Williams for what he could bring to the defense as a whole. The Vikings prove a fearsome front four can free you up to drop 7 which can slow a team down enough to get a sack and/or sack-fumble.

by TexansDC on Jan 24, 2010 2:03 AM CST up reply actions  

The problem is

You’re using statistics to try to prove what can’t be proven with statistics. NT is a position that affects the game much more than stats show, as can be said with solid team coverage in the secondary. I’m not searching around for statistics to validate opinions gained through watching games, simple statistics that are easilly gained are one thing, but i’m not going to spend 30 minutes compiling “evidence” to support the opinions I already have.

I’m just a guy who watches a lot of football. I’m not always “right”, but I do always have an opinion. What I saw this year of the Texans was our tackle currently occupying the “NT” position, for 2 downs at least, did a solid job for us all year. Cody, despite not being a pro bowl caliber player, was far from a weakness for this team last season. He was a clear upgrade over Travis Johnson. Again, maybe not an all pro, but certainly a steady role player.

We also moved Smith over to that DT position and inserted Barwin at end on passing downs, and we could see even more of that as Barwin matures into the position. If Barwin progresses immensely this offseason we could see quite alot of it. Obviously this would limit the plays a rookie DT would get, especially since it usually takes a few years for defensive linemen to come into their own so Cody could be our starter for the next few season whether we draft a NT in the first this year or not. If you really wanted a player who could give as much impact as possible next year, defensive line isn’t where you’re going to find him.

You can compile statistics comparing the Vikings and Texans, but all you’re really doing is making the case that the Vikings are better defensively which I don’t think was ever in doubt. You point to their NT as being the only difference between the two teams, but I could just as easilly point to their UT, who was a much steadier rusher on the interior than anyone we put in there. You can say he’s more effective rushing the passer because he has a big NT beside him, but maybe he’s just a better penetrating UT. I could also point to their safeties who you call nobodys, while not spectacular they are both competent cover safeties, last season after WIlson went down we didn’t have 1 of those on the entire roster.

And again, our two CBs behind Robinson would have trouble selling themselves as starting corners to any other team in the league. If we can’t resign Robinson and we draft a CB later on as a project, we’re going into next season with two backup corners. Everyone likes Quinn because he played ok for a rookie, but as a starting CB in the NFL he was below average at best. Maybe he improves in his second season, maybe he pulls a Bennett, the point is there’s alot of uncertainty with Quinn and the entire CB position for that matter.

It could be things work out and CB isn’t as great a need for us in the draft, then drafting the best player available would be best. But it’s also possible that we need to replace the only starting CB currently on our roster, even if you’re comfortable doing that with a 3rd round rookie, i’m not. I’m not comfortable with a 1st rounder, especially this year, but if we lose robinson and don’t add anything in free agency we need to draft the best CB we can, and I don’t see how you do that except in the first round.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

It also seems like

The Texans prefer playing two interchangeable tackles rather than one strictly UT and one NT. The Cody/Okoye tandem worked well for us this year. Neither was great rushing the passer, but both defended the run well and for the most part controlled the line of scrimmage. I think the reason Price has been mentioned as a possible draftee of the Texans is some scouts think the Texans are or should be looking to add a good pass rush on the inside and looked back and can see that the Texans have a history of playing interchangeable tackles rather than employing the “big space eater” philosophy. They’ve picked first round DTs before and they’ve pretty much all have been in the same mold. Despite what fans may want them to do, I think it’s quite possible the Texans keep on at status quo at DT.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I've read them all...

I guess you’ve decided not to read through them but still wanted to making a zinging comment…

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't have any problem with you arguing that DB is a bigger need than DL

It’s pretty much patently untrue in my book, but whatever.

It was just those 10 or so posts where no was like “uh, there are plenty of cb’s in the 2nd/3rd round and no nose tackles” and you kept saying “BUT CB IS A BIGGER NEED”

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 24, 2010 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

To me

It’s absurd to draft a NT in the first simply because there won’t be another probably untill the 4th round. You take each round by itself and draft the best player to help your team out of who’s available. If we’re in the position of needing to replace a starting CB through the draft, hell yea I think that puts CB at the top of the list as I can’t think of any other position where we need the player to make an immediate impact therefore we have more freedom to take a guy later on and try to coach him up. Whatever problems you have with Houston playing two interchangeable tackles rather than using a big space-eating NT, that’s what they’ve done so far and this past season the worst you could say about our starting DTs were that they were both solid against the run but didn’t get enough pressure inside. That to me doesn’t sound like a huge gaping need, it just sounds like someone is fascinated with the idea of having a true NT to the point that they’re belligerent towards the idea of drafting anything else.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 7:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I read your other posts.

I disagree with CB being a big need and a big NT not making a difference. Thus, it wasted less time just being snarky. You’re obviously not gonna come around if there’s a 100 post thread on it and you’ve yet to even crack.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 25, 2010 1:21 AM CST up reply actions  

It's why I've stopped...

I agree we may need a CB or two, but it’s not my first need. I saw today that the best secondary can get destroyed without a pass rush. That’s all I needed.

by TexansDC on Jan 25, 2010 1:43 AM CST up reply actions  

So because you think NT is a more important position that corner

We don’t need to worry about having starting caliber CBs even? Your love of NTs is such that it has you convinced that CBs are uneccessary for defenses to succeed?

Again I say our two DTs last year played pretty well, well enough that even drafting Williams in the first isn’t a clear upgrade. For every first round pick that has a Cushing type season their rookie year, theirs 2 more that are either hardly ever mentioned or are a total liability at their position. When your current starter is a steady contributer as Cody was this past season, it’s not for sure that the player you draft will even win the starting job, or even if he does that he’ll be more effective. What a guy does in college doesn’t always translate to the NFL, and there seems to be alot of “busted” draft picks on the defensive line.

Remember Dorsey a few years ago? He was a can’t miss DT prospect, who could play either tackle position, there were people ready to enshrine him into the hall of fame already. I remember a few Texans fans saying we should trade up for Dorsey because he would be our answer on the defensive line. Now he’s trying to play end in a 3-4 defense. So you’re using your first round pick on the off chance that you pick a DT that is better than your current starter, whereas if Robinson doesn’t return to the Texans and we draft a corner in the first he’s almost guarunteed to be in the top 3 at the position, making him an instant contributer.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 25, 2010 9:57 AM CST up reply actions  

There has to be a huge misunderstanding here somewhere.

100 + comments and you still don’t get each other?

So because you think NT is a more important position that corner

We don’t need to worry about having starting caliber CBs even? Your love of NTs is such that it has you convinced that CBs are uneccessary for defenses to succeed?

TDC never said that we don’t need to worry about having a starting caliber CB. In his opinion, NT is a more pressing need. But you think that a CB is a more pressing need.

Leg hugs?

by Jordann on Jan 25, 2010 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

The guy is thick

My whole argument is that we can get great DBs in the 2nd and 3rd, so if there are two players available rated the same and one is a NT and one is a CB you take the NT. He feels that in a situation where you have a higher rated NT and a lower rated CB, you reach for the CB. Its stupid.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 25, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

and in all his arguments

Always ignores the fact that the DBs in the 2nd are almost as good as what we would be getting at 20 anyways.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 25, 2010 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

NT and DB are low on the priority list anyways

We need a LT!

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 25, 2010 10:46 AM CST up reply actions  

And I think you're dreaming if you believe that

The gap between players such as Warren, Cox, Ghee, and Wilson who are possibly available to us in the 1st but probably won’t be by the time we pick in the 2nd and players like Patrick Robinson, Kareem Jackson, and Javier Arenas who I believe will be the best of what’s availabe to us in the 2nd is pretty large and just through exhibition workouts seems to be growing more and more daily. In no way shape or form do I think we could get a CB in the 2nd anywhere near as talented as the ones we could pick from in the 1st.

I’m not thick, I understand everything you’re saying, I just think you’re wrong and feel differently myself. I’m sorry that my non-conforming attittude towards this offends you, but it isn’t changing any time soon.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Ghee hasn’t done anything of note at the Senior Bowl and may be sliding from late round 1 to round 2 thanks to the emergence of Wilson…Cox is a round 2 guy.

Haden’s the top 10 pick, Warren’s the 2nd to go after…..but Wilson may have moved into round 1 and bumped Robinson and/or Ghee back to round 2 with Jackson, Arenas, and Cox.

The fact is…the gap exists between Haden and Warren and the rest who are all lumped in to late round 1 to round 2 guys.

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

There's a difference

Between being drafted in the 2nd round and drafted late in the second round. Neither Ghee, Cox, or Ghee will be available by the time we pick in the 2nd so the “2nd round grade” is pretty moot.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 4:05 PM CST up reply actions  

If you’re drafted in the 2nd round…you’re a 2nd rounder.

Also, who knows if they’ll be around or not? Mock drafts have us grabbing Cox in round 2, so there’s a chance.

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I, like Bryan, think the secondary needs another piece.

But I do like the idea that Cody could make our existing secondary better. The Vikings secondary didn’t matter much against the Cowboys,because the D-Line pressured Romo to the point they couldn’t even throw a 3 step drop without disruption in the pocket. And I think Barwin will make a big step next season as well. I’m reserving judgement on the first round pick, until I see what we plan to do with Dunta and Quinn. Who knows, maybe Texans will try Quinn at FS, as we did with Marcus Coleman, which would fill one need in secondary. Then a corner would rise significantly on our list of needs.

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by CFHTim on Jan 24, 2010 1:39 PM CST reply actions  

May be slightly off thread topic, but I noticed on the ESPN crawl this AM

that draft genius Mel K has us going with Brian Price @ #20. Think I would rather go CB or S if we can’t get a bigger DT.

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 24, 2010 4:00 PM CST reply actions  

There's not gonna be a CB worth the 20th pick...

so you’d be pushing for a trade back.

As for safeties, there’s not too much of a drop off from Earl Thomas to the 4 or so FS pegged for the 2nd round. We should address another hole in the 1st before going FS in the 2nd.

by TexansDC on Jan 24, 2010 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm all for beefing up the interior O Line if there is no D Back worthy of the 20th pick

Trading back is always a nice plan, but not always easy to execute. We need help at multiple positions (NT, G, C, S, CB and maybe WR) so adding picks would be great. If a big NT is available I really think that is the best way to go, but we don’t need another UT. We need a monster in the middle.

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 24, 2010 9:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently, G's not too much of a need

The Texans coaches have been reported as saying that they like Studdard and Caldwell at the OG.

by TexansDC on Jan 24, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

I listed it elsewhere

But if there’s going to be a C it’s coming from the draft (the FA class is terrible). The draft’s best C is in round 2…and essentially there’s 1 in each round. I really like the Walton kid from Baylor, but that’s also because he should be there in round 4.

by TexansDC on Jan 24, 2010 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been thinking

And all the CB/NT bickering is getting old to me, so I thought to myself, throwing out “need” areas like CB and NT, and looking at who could make the most impact for the team right away, who would I pick in the first…

I’m thinking Sean Weatherspoon WLB Missouri.., He probably has about as good cover skills as any linebacker coming out in the past 5 years. I’d think he’d have the ability at least to beat Diles out at WLB and if he did would immediately improve our underneath coverage, which was alot of our trouble last season. I don’t think we have to improve over Diles, but if there’s no CB, S, or NT available worth the #20 pick, I wouldn’t mind seeing Weatherspoon picked instead.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 24, 2010 8:01 PM CST reply actions  

I'm hoping

Daryl Washington falls to us in the 3rd, and because we made a signing or two in free agency are able to draft him.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 25, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

We didn't ask Diles to cover much.

He didn’t play in the nickel packages anyways.

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by CFHTim on Jan 25, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

If we did though

He would’ve been the most cost-effective coverer on the planet.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 25, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Draft Tek currently has Weatherspoon going #19 to Atlanta

He is a really good athlete with excellent cover skills. He’s going to be a starter for someone next year. He looks like a hybrid SS/OLB to me.

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 25, 2010 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm with BFD

I like what I am reading about Dan Williams over Terrence Cody.

www.DontMessWithTexans.com

by Mike Kerns on Jan 25, 2010 10:25 AM CST reply actions  

Its in this 1000000 comment thread somewhere

but I think most people agree there. Theres fewer questions about him and his work ethic, and he can probably play more throughout a game. I still would love to have Cody if we can’t have Williams.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 25, 2010 10:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Yes

I wouldn’t be disappointed to have to “settle” for Cody.

www.DontMessWithTexans.com

by Mike Kerns on Jan 25, 2010 11:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I was dead wrong on Cushing, and I may be wrong on Mount Cody

but I watched several Alabama games this year and was disappointed. He is tragically obese when being in shape would have earned him roughly 5-10 million dollars more than he is going to get. That tells me that as soon as he gets his first fat contract he may lose his desire to stay at just 100 lbs over his ideal playing weight. Maybe I am placing too much emphasis on his girth, but I would much rather have Dan Williams.

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 25, 2010 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

As noted in the Senior bowl thread...

Jell-O Cody showed up at 370 pounds and jiggly for today’s weigh-in at the Senior Bowl.

by TexansDC on Jan 25, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

The end of the CB vs. NT Debate - Projected Prospects to go in the 1st 3 rounds.

CBs:
Joe Haden – Top 10
Donovan Warren – Top 25
Brandon Ghee – 1st/2nd
Patrick Robinson – 1st/2nd
Javier Arenas – 2nd
Perrish Cox – 2nd
Dominique Franks – 2nd
Kareem Jackson – 2nd/3rd
Trevard Lindley – 2nd/3rd
Akwasi Owusu-Ansah – 3rd/4th
Jerome Murphy – 3rd/4th
Kyle Wilson – 3rd/4th
Devin McCourty – 3rd/4th
Amari Spievey – 3rd/4th

NT:
Dan Williams – Top 25
Terrence Cody – 1st
Torrell Troup – 3rd/4th

by TexansDC on Jan 25, 2010 6:26 PM CST reply actions  

If the difference between NT and UT is technique...

than you can add some DTs to that list.

Also, the lack of NTs makes it less likely that NT will be available at 19/20 than a CB. Again I ask, where do we go if there are no NTs or CBs worth the value of our pick? I say we look at OG, S, or WR. But of course, all of these projections could (and will, if ever so slightly) change.

To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.

by TexasHoosier on Jan 25, 2010 7:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh yeah, it could all change

It’s just for the sake of the argument: NT vs. CB

As for the difference between NT versus UT, it is technique to a sense…but it’s also got something to do with size and athleticism. A NT has to be a space eater. While it doesn’t mean be a 370 pound bag of fat, it means being big/strong enough to require a double team. That guy’s not gonna get a lot of statistics, but he needs to have enough presence to demand 2 people. The UT can play 3-4 DE, he needs to be able to go one-on-one with a combination of quickness and power. Of course, it’s easier if that NT has the double team.

The chain of ‘evolution’ goes like this
NT > UT/3-4DE > 4-3 DE > 3-4 OLB

by TexansDC on Jan 25, 2010 7:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Well

UT doesn’t have to be able to play 3-4 DE it’s just their most likely fit if their team is switching to 3-4. Same with the 4-3 NT, they don’t have to be a great 3-4 NT, they’re just likely going to be forced to play it if the team switched over.

4-3 NTs play on the weakside and purposefully take on the center and guard which makes it harder for them to make a play themselves, but frees up the weakside defensive end who in traditional 4-3 defenses is the smaller speed rusher variety. UTs by comparrisson just take on the strongside guard leaving the strongside defensive end matched up by the tackle and possibly chipped on by the TE. The idea is to hold position in the middle of the line and strong side with a speed rusher coming from the weakside and often times a blitzing rusher coming from either inside or outside the strong side either getting to the CB or forcing to move around in the pocket and make a hurried throw. On rare occassion teams even try to overload blitzers on one area so that even in the event that the offense picked up one it would be near impossible to pick up both. Some modern 4-3, schemes (like the colts) now use 2 speed rushers at end and even use 2 interchangeable DTs who are more of the penetrating breed than block absorbers.

3-4 NTs technically do the same, although at times they take on the strongside guard and center instead of weakside. Which ever side the NT crashes to, the end on the other is responsible for taking on the tackle and guard on the other side. 3-4 NT is harder to find because it’s more crucial that they not only occupy their two blockers but hold their ground so as to not give up huge running lanes as the ends on either side are under more pressure themselves. As a result 3-4 ends are kind of like hybrids between 4-3 tackles and ends. They have to be bigger and better at taking on blockers head on that most 4-3 ends while penetrating the line and rushing from the edges is much less important.

The Texans currently have 2 ends that could pass for 3-4 ends in most systems as they’re both big guys who hold their points well off blocks and 2 tackles that are both somewhat a “tweener” of the smaller UTs used sometimes today and the 4-3 NTs primarilly used for occupying blockers. As a result their biggest advantage of course is that they’re almost completely interchangeable at the line, both ends can play on either side and both tackles can and do play each tackle position. On passing downs one DE slides over to DT with a smaller more tradition 4-3 edge rushing end takes his position.

Some people don’t think this works for us, but I disagree. We were very strong at the point of attack this year, actually winning the battle at the line of scrimmage at times where in years past we seemed to have a hard time defending inside runs. It’s just not the typical 4-3 defense you see around the league today, it’s more of a line controlling front relying on blitzes to get pressure on the QB and the secondary to prevent the pass untill it can get there. It allows the team to have a “vanilla” look as they don’t really disquise anything, because their goal is to line up and dictate what you’re going to do, whether you see it coming or not. I admire that kind of football and am rooting for it to work out.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Which

Is why you may have seen me use NT in “quotes”, because when I say that we have interchangeable tackles, it’s not so much because they switch positions it’s that for this year at least the Texans haven’t really had an UT and NT so much as two DTs. Either one of the two would have crashed on the center, depending on the defensive play call. I’m not against the idea of bringing in a NT, but that would certainly change some of the things they’re doing now. I’m not sure whether the Texans want to do that or not.., I just don’t know, I do think they could make it work they’d just have to nix the idea of the “interchangeable” pieces on the line which would in turn force them to play a style a little less “vanilla” looking.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

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