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2009 in Review: Defensive Line

Hit the jump if you're familiar with the series because the next couple of lines are review.

I'm going to look at every player who played more than 100 snaps for the Texans from a number of different angles.  I'll give their regular statistics from this year and last year.  Similarly, I will bring in Pro Football Focus and Football Outsiders numbers for the last two years and compare them.  A glossary of FO terms can be found here, and Pro Football Focus operates on a strict +/- system.  Finally, I'll give my impressions on each of them as someone who has spent probably 100 hours each year watching the game tapes and filling in charting numbers for FO.  For players with less than 100 snaps, I'll just give a brief summary.  From this, I hope to give a balanced reading of each player's ability and relative value to the team.

Star-divide

Dline_medium

While with the offensive line FO stats you have a clear-cut placement of credit, the defensive line stats are much more subjective.  The improvement in the Texans run defense, especially after Week 3, was obvious.  How much of that you want to put on the defensive line and how much of it you want to put on Brian Cushing and Bernard Pollard is the real question.  I think that the Texans' run defense improvement was a confluence of factors: Mario Williams became a more complete defensive end by improving against the run, Pollard was a huge upgrade over John Busing in containment, Cushing was a complete beast after some acclimation time, and while Antonio Smith was not a plus run defender, he was much better than the corpse that was Anthony Weaver.  

Despite blitzing more often than Richard Smith with better pass rush personnel, defensive coordinator Frank Bush didn't get much improvement in pass pressure.  Some of this came from an abnormal amount of missed sacks, but the blitz schemes couldn't have been more transparent if Bush's microphone were directly linked to the opposing QB's helmet radio.  I charted somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-15 zone blitzes this year, and all but one or two of them were effective.  But instead of trying to cause confusion and havoc by using these more often, Bush all too often would send DeMeco Ryans or Cushing off the edge or up the middle and call it a day.  There have been enough words spilled over Bush's merits for one season, so I won't focus too hard on this for the time being, but if I had to come up with three question marks for next years Texans team, his playcalling would make that list.

Mario Williams

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Texans fans often feel forced to justify Williams' existence, and while he did not have the usual number of sacks, he completely turned around the meme that he was poor in run support this year.  Despite being the target of popular big time announcers who enjoy big time plays by big time players, Williams showed more heart than any Texan on the entire team last year by suiting up and finding a way to be effective on one arm.  It's easy to focus the Williams talk on how good he is and how much better than Reggie Bust and Multiple Pro Bowler Vince Young he has been, but for nutting up this year while hurt, Williams should be lionized more for his pain threshold and leadership then for his raw talent.  

Williams' burst off the line came and went this year, which is a good sign for his future success in my eyes, since the injury seems to coincide rather nicely with the effect.  Williams was good all over the line in run support, but he developed this nasty outside spin that ruined a few edge pitches, and I think that's where he does his best work. 

Obviously, Williams is the franchise's best defensive player ever.  If he manages to get healthy and provide last year's run support with his previous levels of sackage, it could be an improvement that takes the pass rush to the next level all by itself.  Crappy play-calling be damned.

Antonio Smith

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Smith is nowhere near as bad against the run as that PFF rating in my eyes.  He's not a positive influence, no, but he's not nearly -15 bad.  He might be a true talent 0 to -5 player against the run.  Another driving force on that -10.7 rating is the insane number of penalties he picked up this year.  Thankfully, compared to last year, that amount looks like it has some fluke in it.  

Rushing the passer, Smith was a fine second banana to Williams.  His only problem was finishing his pressures; he probably had 4 or 5 separate plays where he got a hand on the QB while the ball was coming out.  He won't go out and dominate a Joe Thomas or anything, but against a normal second tackle, he'll have success.

Devil's Advocate: Given the relatively poor year, the fact that the Texans definitely overpaid to get him in the first place, the rather strong class of older defensive ends, and the fact that the Texans could cut him now with no salary cap ramifications if there is no CBA, one could make a case that it makes sense to cut Smith this offseason.  I'm not saying the Texans will do that, or probably even dream of doing it, it would just be an interesting use of market forces.  Particularly since Connor Barwin is in the fold anyway should things not work out.

Amobi Okoye

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Here is your enigma.  The hardest player on the team to evaluate by far.  Unlike the Smith run defense rating, I don't think -10.9 is too far off on Okoye.  He'll occupy a blocker, but he doesn't often beat his man or cause a cascade with a great move.  On the other hand, I think he's about a +5 true talent pass rusher.  But the split on that has to be something like +15 against bad guards/centers and 0 against good ones.  To make a baseball comparison, saying Okoye is a good pass rusher is like saying Juan Pierre is a good hitter--he's above average, but there's a lot under the surface that makes that .300 look worse than it is.

The flashes and talent are always there with Okoye.  He can look absolutely dominant for a series, a quarter, even a half.  Then he can spend the next 15 plays adding absolutely nothing to the defense.  I advocate patience with him, because he is still incredibly young, but this is an enormous year for him.  Playing aside a nose tackle who demands a double team would be a good start for helping him out, but another thing that the Texans might want to look into is cutting his snaps.  He seems to tire easily subjectively, and I think it might be a nice wakeup call to say "Hey, we love you and all, but we want performance out there, not promise."  

Shaun Cody

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Well, that worked out just about like it was supposed to.  Cody was, as he has been for most of his career, just another guy.  He can occupy a blocker, but he's not often going to do anything to beat said blocker.  There is no untapped upside left, and while guys like him have a deserved place in the NFL, Cody is an injury-fill in on a good defense.  

To turn around a King Of The Hill phrase, Shaun Cody is a great defensive tackle for housewives and little girls playing barbecue, but you can't compare him to a real NFL nose tackle.  

Connor Barwin

Barwin_medium

Barwin's progression was pretty much what you'd expect for someone who'd played just one year of defensive end in college: downright ugly in the first couple of games, but he was a solid contributor from then on, albeit one who made some mental mistakes.  I don't think he's average against the run yet, but he's already the second best pass rusher of this lot.  Like most of the Texans rookies, expect Barwin to benefit from a full year of OTAs and training camp.

The long-term future is somewhat more up in the air.  I'm not sure the coaches will let him overtake Smith, and I'm also not sure he'll be able to stick at linebacker for more than a few gimmick sets.  He looked lost the few times I saw him have to play coverage.  I'm hoping he gets more snaps this year, but there isn't a clear answer to where they come as long as Smith is on the team.  Perhaps to run with my Okoye idea, the Texans can run some more sets with Smith kicked inside and Barwin at his end spot.

Jeff Zgonina

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I have backspaced about a hundred clever ways to say "Jeff Zgonina is a nice guy, I'm sure, and he tries hard, but he's old and not that good at football anymore", some of which have involved poop jokes and the word "grit".  I have no objection to Zgonina being on the team or in training camp, but let's call his snaps what they really are: a cry for help.  

The fact that a geriatric could put up a -1.1 run rating screams fluke at me from every angle.  He had some good fumble luck, including the one that sealed the win over the BESFs in Week 2.  I think he's a true talent -10 tackle, about on par with Cody. As much as I admire the story, I also admire having talented players on the defensive line.

Tim Bulman

Bulman_medium

Bulman is the Chris White of the defensive line, and I don't mean to imply that he regularly soils himself by that.  He's a penalty-prone player who does a decent job on passing downs and is probably worth keeping around as a change of pace as long as he stays cheap.  At the same time, there isn't much upside here, and he's already nearing 30.  

Bulman is never going to be much more than he is now, but when we here at BRB are listing defensive linemen from the old days in 2018, people will think about him and say "Yeah, I guess he was okay.  He was no Junior Ioane."

DelJuan Robinson

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Sort of puzzling to see him buried on this line for Cody, given I don't think there is much of a difference between the two of them.  Robinson wasn't +8.2 against the run good in 2008, but he played decently in limited time.  I'm not quite sure that he's anything more than an average run stopper, so there will be no rebellion against the Kubiak regime for this mass injustice, but it was odd that he went so far into the doghouse.

At any rate, not the kind of nose tackle worth losing sleep over.  I think it's pretty neat that he managed to grade out as almost perfectly average on PFF, minus the penalties.  

(F*** It, I'm) Going Deep

Tim Jamison - For whatever reason, I really like this guy.  I think he's got some Bulman in him.  All the small sample size stats say he's not worth much, but I must have caught the two or three plays where he got decent pass pressure.

Jesse Nading - Good news for him is that Darren McFadden's career is so far down the drain there's a possibility that he may yet get revenge on him in the UFL.

Frank Okam - Too busy wiping out global hunger to care about this "football" you speak of.

Pannel Egboh - Sounds like a breakfast accident.

2 recs  |  Comment 150 comments |

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That’s an interesting idea about rotating Okoye in and out, I think he’d benefit from less snaps. However, the bigger benefit would be to have him go one-on-one with a guard. Amobi has the tools to thrive in that situation.

Cody can take Zgonia’s place. Someone, anyone needs to take Cody’s place. Whether that’s

1st rounders Dan Williams or Terrence Cody…
Torrell Troup (projected 3rd best NT; round 3-4)
Linval Joseph or Jay Ross from ECU (4th and 5th best NTs; round 4-5)

Or even 1st rounder Brian Price from UCLA. At this point, any of those 6 guys would be an improvement over Shaun Cody who is a back-up.

An improvement there can help improve the defense tremendously.

Super Mario – Amobi – (New guy) – Smith
Barwin can rotate in with Smith while Smith/Cody/someone else can rotate in through the NT/DT.

by TexansDC on Jan 26, 2010 6:05 PM CST reply actions  

That name has never been mentioned...

but he played pretty well for the 49ers. Not that Patrick Willis needed it, but Franklin did help keep people from him.

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 1:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind

Signing him or hampton. Then we could take two DBs in the first two rounds or even an interior lineman before the 3rd.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Cody didn't play poorly

Far from it. I doubt it’s any coincidence that the Texans have a meteoric improvement against the run in the same year that Cody replaced Travis Johnson. I think you can compare him to a real NFL NT because most NTs have pretty mediocre stats. It’s funny to me that in defense of one potential draft pick or another you’re told “individual stats aren’t that important with NTs” but at the same time Cody who occupied the position for much of last year is considered terrible because he doesn’t have great individual stats. Cody did a pretty good job of holding his ground thus clogging up running lanes, which “helped” in the improvement against the run. I don’t think that his performance from last year deserves “replace him now!” jeers, sometimes just doing your job really is enough. That especially holds true for a player who spends time at “NT” as a more aggressive tackle often finds that he just penetrated his way out of a play thusly giving the offense a free 5 yards.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 26, 2010 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Name one play

Just one. Single. Play. Where Cody penetrated himself into a bad position or, OR, where he tied up two blockers two allow a LB to run free.

Just one play.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 26, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions  

its a thing with bryan

He just can’t stand the idea of us drafting a NT in the first.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 26, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm actually quite ok with drafting a NT in the first

Under the right conditions. Mainly I disagree with the idea that we need NT above all else redardless of any other team need. Even if he turned out to be the best NT in the league, which the odds are heavilly against, a NT can’t collapse pockets while commanding double teams, while shredding blocks, and apparantly covering WRs too.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 1:47 AM CST up reply actions  

Patrick Willis does all that at the same time.

Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.

by BigNate7 on Jan 27, 2010 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Mainly I disagree with the idea that we need NT above all else redardless of any other team need.

And thats where you go wrong. As has been said a million times, we can address any other team need in rounds 2 or 3. NT? Its 1st or 4-7. The dropoff between 1st round DB talent this year and 2nd round DB talent is very very little, especially considering who will probably be available to us at 20.

a NT can’t collapse pockets while commanding double teams, while shredding blocks, and apparantly covering WRs too.

If he is doing the first two things, which are by the way the things a NT we took in the first would probably be able to do, why would he have to cover receivers? If he did those two things our mediocre DBs would suddenly look pretty good because the QB would be on his ass. Do you really not get that? Go look at the super bowls winning Giants or the Vikings from the last few years.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Just because a corner has a 2nd round grade

Doesn’t mean he’ll be there when we pick in the 2nd. Plus you can’t have it both ways, you can’t not draft a safety in the first because you can maybe get Nate Allen in the 2nd, and at the same time draft a corner in the 2nd as well, and still keep your eyes on a OG like Mike Johnson possibly in the 3rd. It’s all about priorities and needs, and it’s my opinion that a NT that late in the first round probably isn’t going to be the dominant force inside you’re craving for, or he’d be a top 10 or even top 5 pick. Any player projected in that stage of the first round has potential holes or trouble areas, maybe you get lucky and one comes in and is the surprise of the draft, but odds are against it. It seems silly to draft a NT who more than likely would take at least part of the year to even work his way steadilly into rotation, if not longer, if we have a position that is weak in starting caliber talent and has 0 depth beyond its starters.

Under the right conditions drafting a NT would be awesome, but to take the stance that it’s NT or bust regardless of any other need doesn’t make sense to me. For all the “he just doesn’t want a NT”, i’ve stated numerous times that i’d like to see a true NT drafted if the situation allows it. Just because I don’t want to blindly draft a big fat guy just because he’s a big fat guy and to hell with corners what do they really do anyways, doesn’t mean i’m against drafting a big fat guy.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Just because a corner has a 2nd round grade Doesn’t mean he’ll be there when we pick in the 2nd.

Have you seen how many corners are available? Someone worth the pick will be available.

a NT that late in the first round probably isn’t going to be the dominant force inside you’re craving for, or he’d be a top 10 or even top 5 pick. Any player projected in that stage of the first round has potential holes or trouble areas,

This applies to the CBs you lust after also.

Plus you can’t have it both ways, you can’t not draft a safety in the first because you can maybe get Nate Allen in the 2nd, and at the same time draft a corner in the 2nd as well, and still keep your eyes on a OG like Mike Johnson possibly in the 3rd

I don’t want a FS in the first 3 rounds, I want a NT a corner and a lineman.

if we have a position that is weak in starting caliber talent and has 0 depth beyond its starters.

This applies to DT as much if not more so then CB.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't lust after any corner in the draft

I just fear going into the season with Reeves and Quinn as starters and nothing behind them. I have no reason to fear that Cody won’t play at the same level he did this year, and i’ve already said i’m comfortable with his production if a better option doesn’t present intself. You can get a starter in any round of the draft or even undrafted players for that matter, but your best chance to find a player who can be productive right away is in the first round as scouts usually have reasons for grading players that high. Mark my words, there will be at least 5-6 corners taken by the time we pick in the 2nd, the odds of getting an immediate contributer after that is a crap shoot at best. So when you’re feeling as desperate as I am about the future of the CB position, hell yes you want to draft the best possible corner available. I hope it doesn’t come to that, but if the worst comes to fruition I’ll be screaming from the rooftops for CB.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no reason to fear that Cody won’t play at the same level he did this year, and i’ve already said i’m comfortable with his production if a better option doesn’t present intself.

You aren’t going to find many people to agree with you on that sorry.

You may not believe it, but the DB depth is insane this year. There are a lot of players expected to fall to the 2nd at corner that could have an immediate contribution that combined with a real NT would have a huge impace on our passing defense.

You also seem to be under this delusion that its easy for CBs to step in and contribute immediately. Its probably just as hard or even arguably harder for them then it is for a NT.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 12:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh Man!!!

You guys never quit with the DB vs NT debate….what about the O-line!!!!!

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 27, 2010 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Not much to argue about....

the O-line is indisputably the number 1 need area of this team. It is so deficient, I can’t laugh at it anymore.

I will agree with some of your points. There are more NFL DBs in this draft than NTs. So, if you want a NT, you better get a NT when the getting is good. DBs are cheap because there are plenty, so you can pick one up in the 3rd round and who’s to say that DB is appreciably worse than the DB you passed over in the 2nd round? Whereas, you can’t say that about NTs. But, we need O-linemen! We need more than one. There will be a number of NFL LTs available at 20 in the 1st round that will be gone by the 2nd round. I am pulling for the Texans to wake up and smell the coffee and pick the best guy available when it is their turn.

This team needs to start acting like they are one of the big boys in this league and that is to pick great players in the right spots and fill the holes. O-line is a huge hole. If you look at last year’s team, the most deficient area of that team was the running game. It was more deficient than any other area of the team. I point to the O-line as the place where that rebuilding needs to start.

Go O-line and go strong in NFL Draft 2010!

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 28, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

O-Line.

I agree that O-lineman is also another hole that we need to plug. But you specifically pointed the LT position out or maybe it was a typo im not sure. If you are referring to LT, Duane Brown is still young. Some of the sacks that Schaub took this season are from him holding on the ball for too long. Only time that i’ve seen Brown give up a sack was against Freeney and I definitely dont blame him for giving up a sack against one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. I know there are more instances but I can’t remember any right now.

I understand that without an improved interior O-line, our rushing attack won’t be deadly. But as long as it’s effective, I can live with it. Oh, and they’re not too bad with the pass protection either so im not too concerned about the O-Line.

The defensive line on the other hand is a different story. IMHO, they are one player away from being a dominant force. Mario is a beast, Okoye is improving and Antonio Smith can hold his own. A space-eating, pocket collapsing NT would result in more sacks from our DE’s and LB’s.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 10:56 AM CST up reply actions  

I can understand wanting Brown moved inside

He’s not an elite LT. Good and improving but not great. I wouldn’t be opposed to a OT in round 1, but I don’t know if that’d be anyone’s first choice.

However, the one position on the line that needs to change is center because that little ragdoll doesn’t inspire confidence. I am hoping that they do take a center in rounds 3-5. I don’t wanna see another DT blow up Myers in the hole again.

by TexansDC on Jan 28, 2010 11:02 AM CST up reply actions  

But then

You still have the question of what type of DT the Texans would consider drafting. It doesn’t really count for squat what fans think the Texans need in a position or what scheme they should run. You don’t go from running interchangeable linemen to drafting a pure NT without having some schematic adjustments needing to be made. The question is whether those are changes the Texans want to make, not whether Schmoe Joe fan thinks a space eating NT is what this defense needs to give it a kick in the pants.

I don’t totally disagree that it would help, but I have no idea how the Texans staff feels about that. I know that historically under Kubiak they have gone the interchangeable tackle route and I personally haven’t seen mention from any Houston official indicating the desire to change that particular strategy.

Oddly enough, I think whether Williams is drafted by Houston may well depend on how well they think he can adjust to playing the UT role occasionally rather than adjust their defense just to draft one player. And Cody doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of being drafted by the Texans.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 11:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I love how you pointed that out

because under the smithiak era, we have never drafted a CB higher than the third round. Our highest drafted CB was Molden and I think that the Texans are still hoping that he turns it around. You dont draft CB’s to groom and turn around a couple of drafts later and draft a CB that can immediately start.

The Texans DID draft Okoye in the first round a couple of years back. Don’t you think that they would wanna draft a NT that can help one of their first round draft pick out?

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

So in 4 years they haven't drafted a CB

In the first or second round, so they never will? That’s not the same as looking at the type of player that they have played in the two starting tackle positions over those 4 years and seeing a trend both in the player and how they were used. It’s not just the players the Texans have had at DT, they haven’t really played with a NT and UT so much as 2 DTs, both take their turn playing the NT role depending on the defensive play called and offensive allignment. That would require more than just drafting a big space eating NT, they’d need to change how they use the position, and i’m not sure they do that. I’m not sure that they won’t either, but for now i’m just going to assume they’re operating under the same defensive philosophy since they’re returning pretty much their entire defensive coaching staff and front 7 and had the best year they’ve ever had defensively.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 1:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Just because the entire defensive staff is returning next year

it doesn’t mean that they won’t tweak their philosophy if a NT that can collapse the pocket happens to fall to our lap.

They’ll review the tapes and chart the performance of each player to find out what they can do improve the defense. Im pretty sure that they’re aware of the problems that we have with the D-Line and our CB’s. So those are their targets for the draft. And from the looks of it, the crop of DT is weak this year and there’s depth at the CB position. Knowing that, where do you think they’ll go with the 20th pick?

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 1:56 PM CST up reply actions  

It doesn't mean that they will either

All i’m saying is all the talk i’ve heard about getting a true spacing eating NT has come from the fans not the Texans, and doing so would fly in the face of what they’ve had in the starting lineup during the Kubiak regime and Bush’s first season.

I expect they’ll take the best player available as they probably feel they’re in position where they don’t “need” to find a starter in the draft. You feel we need to improve starting NT and I feel that we “might” need to improve on our top 3 at corner if all doesn’t go well in free agency, but when the dust clears I think they’ll take the player who has the highest grade on their board that fits the system whether that’s safety, CB, NT, T, or even WR… I think this year more than any other they’ll draft for value.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions  

A moot point is moot.

The first paragraph doesn’t make sense. I read it five times but I can’t make out what you’re saying. Can you clarify that?

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Inconsisten Logic is Inconsistent

The coaches have never taken a NT high and haven’t said they will, but that doesn’t apply to the fact that the exact same thing can be said about CB.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I was gonna say that.

But I wanted him to clarify what he was trying to say first.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

That's two different things

It’s not that the Texans haven’t drafted a DT high, they certainly have. It’s that their defense doesn’t employ the giant space eater everyone’s wanting. Where one position is traditionally picked by the team isn’t the issue, it’s the type of player that fits the scheme currently used. If you were saying the projected first round corners are bigger than we’re accustomed to and can play off the reciever as well as press which we’ve never really had, maybe it would make sense. It would be kind of moronic, but it would make sense at least in context. What you’re doing now is comparing apples to oranges.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not sure how it's confusing but i'll try to simplify

(1) There is talk that the Texans need a giant NT instead of the current interchangeable tackles they use now

(2) Alot of fans believe this

(3) No one from the Houston Texans has said anything that has given me the impression they’re leaning in that direction

(4) In Kubiaks entire stay and in Bush’s first year as DC, the Texans have played two interchangeable tackles instead of the traditional UT/NT combo.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

They have also played shitty Corners for their entire regime yet never took one high.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 4:41 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Just to add to the CBs drafted thing

The Shanahan Broncos went 7 straight dratts in the mid-00’s and only went with a CB in the 2nd-3rd round on one occasion: that being 2005, where they drafted 3 and it was considered the total Achilles heal of their team after Peyton Manning ruined them in the playoffs.

Of course, before that they spent their #1 pick on a CB two drafts in a row. 01 and 00.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 29, 2010 5:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Well...

Things changed at CB when Dunta: a) turned down the long-term contract, and b) turned out to be pretty terrible anyways. Bennett regressing certainly didn’t make us any deeper at CB anyways.

Maybe Molden still has a chance to develop, but CB is still a position that they lack top-flight talent at. And I won’t bother getting into the merits of Shaun Cody any more, but I don’t think we’re considerably more talented at CB than we are at DT. Any way you slice it, we’ve got a big heap of mediocrity at both positions.

by Nashmeister on Jan 28, 2010 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

The coaches did draft Okam, and they did play TJ for quite awhile, before they finally gave up on them and concluded that the best tackles we had were the undersized ones, so its possible they are just trying to make due.

All of the DTs they were seen talking to yesterday were NTs so that should probably give a good idea of what they are looking for.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 12:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think it really matters who they were talking to

As they seem to draft players they showed next to no interest in publicly, that would almost make me believe they’re thinking of drafting in another area when they’re showing most interest in one. That’s just how they’ve done things in the past. I wouldn’t be surprised though if they were interested in drafting a DT though, but I also wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the DT they pick if they pick one is a versatile DT who can potentially play either position. For the record, I don’t think WIlliams is as pure a NT as some people are saying, it’s possible he can play some UT as well which would make him more valuable to the Texans.

Travis Johnson is more of an interchangeable tackle than pure NT, and Okam was taken in the 5th round largely because they had a higher grade on him as he was considered to be a 2nd or 3rd round talent with issues in conditioning and motivation so they took a flier on him, i’m not sure that can be used to show a trend.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

The potential problems I see with Williams

While he looked awesome this past season, apart from this season he’s had some issues with attittude and work ethic, and was nowhere near as versatile a player. Right now he looks like he gets enough penetration 1 on 1 to fill that “interchangeable” mold as well as the line controlling NT we’ve never had. But what if he gets paid the reverts to the Dan WIlliams before Monte Kiffin and skulks and half asses around the practice field? I would rather take less talented players who’ve been known to work their tails off personally, as they typically improve more once they get into the league.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

The reason I don't talk about O-line in the first

Is because I think we are going to go after center in the draft, which would mean we wouldn’t be picking on till at least the 2nd.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 11:20 AM CST up reply actions  

I agree with that

Really outside of tackles there’s usually not that many offensive linemen drafted in the 1st round. Iupati probably should be a 1st round, but I don’t think he’s the best fit for us, especially since the Texans are seemingly moving Caldwell to OG full time and with their love of Studdard guard probably isn’t considered that big a need that they’d pick a player that may or may not fit the system. From all accounts he has trouble moving in space, and that’s one thing Texans linemen kind of have to be able to do. And there’s just not any centers worth a 1st round pick.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I think working as a LT in space is a bit different then what we do with ZBS, but it might have some correlation. I think Iuputa might be good enough for them to not care how much they like Studdard, but there is still the whole them not wanting to move Caldwell to center thing.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 12:54 PM CST up reply actions  

J.D. Walton...

Now that everyone’s discovered why I was driving Kyle Wilson’s bandwagon….I’ve moved on to J.D. Walton for Center (I wouldn’t mind a Matt Tennant from BC but still)….I’m on J.D Walton’s bandwagon.

by TexansDC on Jan 28, 2010 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

O Line

As much as I would love to have a step up from walking corpses better interior line play, the RB’s as as much to do with our piss poor running game as the O Line. From my view in the end zone during home games, I saw more RB’s run into piles and away from holes/cutback lanes than I see in high school games. Only Moats came close to exhibiting the vision necessary to run the ball in a ZBS. Just sayin’.

"380 pounds of pure pirogi" ~ Cush

by LoneSpot on Jan 28, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions  

No I don't get that

Because it’s a point that’s grossly overdone. NTs and a pass rush “can” help take pressure off a secondary, but no ammount of pass rush makes their job “easy”. And just as a solid pass rush takes pressure off the secondary, solid coverage takes pressure off the pass rush by giving them more time to get to the QB. It’s better to have a slightly above average coverage and pass rush than have one awesome and the other below average, on either side of the spectrum.

It’s your opinion we can get the same quality CB in the 2nd+ rounds, but it’s not mine. What it seems to come down to me is the love of the idea of a true giant NT, as the NT in question changes depending on projections but the idea that we draft NT first does not. To me that makes the statement that NT is our biggest need, and I just don’t see that at all.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 11:10 AM CST up reply actions  

Two things:

1) I think the zone scheme makes all our corners look worse than they are, which I think colors you too far on this topic.

2) Pass rush making things easy for the secondary crowd would like to ask you to compare the 2008 Giants defense and the 2009 Giants defense.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 29, 2010 5:52 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't follow the Giants much

So I went to Big Blue View to see what Giants fans seem to think of their problems defensively. What I found interesting in their review of positions, safety was described as “atrocious”, CB was a mix bag where Thomas played well, Webster had a bennett-like regression, and no one else played exceptionally well at the position either. Outside Linebacker was a team weakness, Middle Linebacker went from strength to average at best when Pierce went on IR, and their entire defensive line was nicked up all season… I’d say the problem was (1) they never really had their starting defensive line on the field for any length of time, and (2) outside of 1 CB they didn’t have any secondary players or linebackers play exceptionally well. I’m sure if 2/3 of our defense went on IR we’d stink it up too, whether we have a NT or not.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 29, 2010 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Also in there somewhere

Was a quote from Tom Coughlin on his thoughts of why the Giants had a dissappointing season…

“We have lost our identity in terms of who we are. We are a football team that has always prided itself on the physical aspect of the game, which is running the ball and stopping the run. … we are having difficulty running it, we are having difficulty stopping the run.”

Nowhere did I see mention the theory that they would have been better defensively had they gotten a better pass rush, or that the lack of a consistent pass rush was the problem.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 29, 2010 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Their D-line dropped off in a big way this year, which probably went a long way to exposing their secondary which has never been very good.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 29, 2010 11:13 AM CST up reply actions  

Their identity comes from their defensive line

It always has. They used to control both lines of scrimmage.

by TexansDC on Jan 29, 2010 11:27 AM CST up reply actions  

A dominant D-line

If only we can have that luxury.

by Jordann on Jan 29, 2010 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

No starting defensive line on the field for any length of time =/= They didn't get a worse rush?

You’re pretty stubborn on this.

The Colts have never had a dominant CB and have been above average on pass defense for years, thanks to two guys named Mathis and Freeney. The Patriots won three Super Bowls, two of which involved their best CB being the overrated Asante Samuel and another of which involved their best CB being all reputation Ty Law. The Steelers best CB’s in their last Super Bowl year were Bryant McFadden, who they let walk, and Ike Taylor, routinely lampooned. The Giants SB cornerbacks were not really any better than what they have now (McQuarters and an aging Madison).

Meanwhile, Champ Bailey has never won anything. Nmandi has never won anything. Revis almost made it to the Super Bowl but failed when the BIG BLITZING JETS failed to get pressure on Manning in the second half. The Raiders made it to the Super Bowl without Charles Woodson.

What part of the shutdown CB is so appealing? It’s a wonderful bonus in my mind but the pass rush is the important part of pass defense. It’s been proven time and time again over the past decade, especially as we’ve moved to a more passing-oriented NFL.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 29, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

To add

Deion Sanders is the only shut-down corner I can think of that has won the Super Bowl. Of course, it doesn’t hurt that those came with San Francisco in 94 and Dallas in 95 where those were just all-world level teams.

A shut-down corner eliminates 1 WR. We saw it with Revis versus Indy. Just because Revis was great doesn’t mean the others are.

by TexansDC on Jan 29, 2010 1:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I bet if you go back and look

There’s not many Super Bowl winning teams starting 2 CBs who wouldn’t start on any other team in the NFL either.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 29, 2010 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Coughing my lungs out.

06 Colts.

cough

Jason David

cough

Nick Harper

 cough

by Jordann on Jan 29, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

and whoever rivers mentioned.

I can’t believe you still choose to ignore this.

Drafting a potential shutdown corner definitely benefits us but sadly, there’s still going to be the other side of the field to cover. Unless of course we trade all our draft picks for Patrick Willis. We wouldn’t even need the then other men on the field. And Willis’ presence would negate all the penalties we would acquire.

Im definitely on your side now Bryan.

Let’s trade our draft picks for Patrick Willis!

But then again, teams dont trade for Patrick Willis.

Dammit. My head hurts.

by Jordann on Jan 29, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions  

We can aliviate that problem by GUESS WHAT drafting a corner in the 2nd. GASP.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 29, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

DL vs. DB - Defending Bryan...to a point

Bryan has a point: Pass defense matters more than run defense. However, he has gone about it the wrong way (not really listening nor responding to other people’s arguments).

The NFL is a passing league. Top passers usually win more often than not. The number that matters? QB Passer Rating.

QB Passer Rating is determined by (Percentage of completions per attempt, Average yards per attempt, Percentage of touchdown passes per attempt, percentage of incompletions per attempt).

The NFL perfection would be (at 30 pass attempts) would be 23.25/30 (77.5% complete) for 375 yards (12.5 yards per attempt) for 3.57 TDs (11.9% per attempt) and 0 INTs for those wondering.

The flip side of that? Well, you can determine a defensive passer rating by compiling stats. The Texans were 14th in that category (83.2 DPR; 62.8% complete, 6.7 yards per attempt, a 3% TD rate and 3% INT rate). 10 of the 13 teams ahead of us in DPR are playoff teams. The 2 that aren’t are 16th and 17th.

Teams that have great DPR usually succeed. Scroll to the charts.

What’s the answer to improve our DPR? Run up the attempts, force bad throws, bat passes away, garner up sacks, limit passing TDs, try and incercept as many passes as possible.

How to accomplish that?

Run up the attempts – Take away the run, force teams to score. We have the offense to do so. Our run defense isn’t dominant yet.

Force bad throws – Pass rush to disrupt timing and have those bad throws to avoid sacks

Bat passes away – Put DBs in good position, have play-making DBs

Garner up sacks – Have great pass rush that collapses the pockets and creates antsy QBs and/or have great DBs to get coverage sacks

Limit passing TDs – get teams off the field with good defense and/or have great red zone defense

Interceptions – Sam as bat passes away

By this argument alone, the DL is a tad more important. That’s not to say that we want Nick Harper and some dude back in the DB, but a good front 7 can help make the DBs better. You can have a great secondary, but the Texans are closer to an elite fron 7 than elite secondary.

by TexansDC on Jan 29, 2010 3:20 PM CST up reply actions  

We have the offense to do so, but need more 7s and fewer 3s and/or we can improve our run defense from borderline 10th to top 5.*

by TexansDC on Jan 29, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions  

I've responded to every point i've seen directed towards me

The problem is some people make the same point in 4-5 different threads, and sometimes when they or someone else make a new point, i’ll give my attention to that rather than writing a 10 paragraph post to address them all, then having someone complain about my wall of text. Other “points” I disregard right off the bat because I don’t think they’re relevant to the conversation.

On the whole though, i’d venture to say i’ve listened and responded to their side much more than they have mine. For example, i’ve said at least 5-6 times that it’s the Texans trend of playing two interchangeable tackles that would lead me to believe they’d do the same unless I see some evidence they’re thinking of moving in another direction… As far as I know those comments are still being accused of my saying that it’s because of their draft history and then mentioning that we haven’t drafted CBs high either… it’s like trying to reason with a donkey. To those posters, sometimes i’ll just ignore full posts of theirs, because sometimes I get tired of arguing with someone who will make argument with anything I say just to be contrary.

We are closer to elite on the front 7 than the secondary, and that’s precisely why I feel secondary could be a bigger need if things don’t work out for us in free agency. Personally i’d rather have an average front 7 and back 4 than an elite front 7 and terrible back4. A balanced defense, even if not elite, is harder to take advantage of than a totally one dimentional defense. Currently i’d say we have a slightly above average front 7, but our secondary if Robinson leaves, we don’t find another CB to replace him, and have any injuries at all in the secondary, it’s going to be scary as hell. So if through free agency or the draft, we can improve our secondary enough that it could potentially at least be average, we’d be more balanced defensively which in my opinion would result in better defense. That’s been my stance from the start, if we lose Robinson, and if we don’t bring in anyone to replace him, our secondary both at CB and safety will be wafer thin and should be addressed early and often in the draft. Sure you can draft a CB in the 3rd round, but the idea that there’s no seperation between 1st round CBs than 3rd is just silly, if that were the case we’d have another year where 6-7 CBs were taken in the 1st. The truth is that the talent level at corner is down this year at the top, but deeper in the middle. There are maybe 4-5 corners worth being drafted in the top two rounds, after that there’s either a large dropoff in talent or greater risk with the corner picks. Obviously if we are in position that we need our draftee to be productive for us right away, we need as little risk as possible with as high skill level as possible. That’s only going to be available in the first 2 rounds and probably the first tier of CBs will be gone by the time we pick in the 2nd. That’s the crux of what I believe.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 29, 2010 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a bit of an exaggeration

There’s probably 6-7 worth 2nd round picks or higher, and there’d probably still be 1 or two left when we pick in the 2nd, but if we did that the luxury of choice would be taken from us, we either take what’s left whether we like it or not, or take a less talented player later on who has even less chance of be productive in his first year.

As much as I get accused of hating NTs, my biggest hope is that we both resign Robinson and sign another free agent CB at a reasonable salary for added depth, then i’d be thrilled if the Texans drafted Williams in the 1st…, though i’d still throw my cat at the TV if they picked Cody.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 29, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm anti-Cody...

the dude’s 2-down abilities warrant a 2nd round pick at best.

Honestly, I hear what you’re saying about our CBs. They’re not great. As far as positions go, I think CB is among the team’s worst.

Ideally, if the Texans were movers and shakers, I’d love to see Leigh Bodden get signed (Resigning Dunta early enough for him to work in OTAs would be okay, but Bodden’s better) and Owen Daniels traded to a team (like the Browns who need weapons) for a 2nd round draft pick (could be more picks, but the early 2nd is key). At that point, I’d draft the BA CB (Ghee or Wilson maybe?) then draft a guy like Parrish Cox at our 2nd round pick.

I would have Bodden, Wilson/Ghee start with Cox returning kicks and in the nickle (for now). Glover Quin? I’d move him to compete at FS with Eugene Wilson while Barber backs up BP.

Who’s the 1st round pick? Dan Williams.

If the Texans did that…man, I’d flip.

by TexansDC on Jan 29, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Yea

That would be insane, then with the 3rd round pick we’d have total freedom to pick the best availabe lineman to fit our needs, I’d go Mike Johnson. Williams, Wilson, Cox, and Johnson would be an unbelieveable start to the draft. Though if they could, I know it’s a huge stretch because they’re both going to want big money, sign both Robinson and Bodden, suddenly CB isn’t really much of a priority at all. I know people have their gripes with Robinson, I do too, but if he were in a position where he wasn’t the #1 man and asked to single handedly stop the opponents passing game, I think you’d see a different Robinson on the field. Even when he was at his best, he’s always been a bit spotty in man coverage against premiere recievers, but if he’s not asked to stop the other team’s best every play, he’ll probably become a little of a playmaker again.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 29, 2010 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

The ironing is delicious

This year: Cody replaces Travis Johnson, is awesome in comparison as he’s not one of the worst DL’s in the NFL, Bryan props him up to insane heights.

Next year: XXXX replaces Dunta Robinson, is awesome in comparison as he’s not one of the worst CB’s in the NFL, Bryan will prop him up to insane heights.

The only question is who XXXX will be.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 30, 2010 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe the bills will cut Reggie Corner and we can sign him.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 30, 2010 7:40 PM CST up reply actions  

So

Calling Cody a serviceable starter is propping him up to insane heights? And suggesting that having a serviceable starter at DT replace a liability as a starter “helped” improve the defense is unreasonable?

I’ve never suggested Cody was any more than serviceable, but he was that. Our secondary however wasn’t very serviceable collectively and we could lose our top corner… I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that could be a concern heading into next year.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 31, 2010 9:59 AM CST up reply actions  

Laying on the hyperbole a little, okay, but

Replacing a really bad player is not hard for any player to do. I do think you are overrating Cody because of who he replaced. And I expect that to happen again with Dunta if he leaves. He “helped” the defense in the same way that any number of undrafted FA’s could’ve.

Propping him to insane heights is cause you have argued your points for damn near 300 posts over all the threads. That’s a lot.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 31, 2010 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

You've agreed already

That Cody was serviceable, and that’s all i’ve ever described him as. Yes i’ve argued this point in many threads, all in response to him being labeled as less than serviceable. So posters rag on him in 300 posts and in 300 posts I defend him by saying he was a serviceable starter for us, which you haven’t disagreed with yet… what height am I propping him up to?… the same level you agree he’s at? That seems a little silly to me.

All of the “you’ve posted about cody 300 times” digs is a little silly too. For one, seeing as how i’ve only been talking about him in response to comments made about him from others, clearly i’m not the only one. You can’t bring up a subject in one post then rag on someone for trying to discuss the same topic… that doesn’t even make sense.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 31, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think he's serviceable though.

I think he’s a below average NFL player who had a fluke serviceable year.

And you’ve been bringing him up in regard to every NT thread. I’m not trying to play it both ways, clearly this is a thread reserved for talking about Shaun Cody. It’s just a little bizarre to me for someone to viciously defend Shaun Cody in every thread on the board. It’d be like someone defending Ramon Walker as a good draft pick because he was okay on special teams.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 31, 2010 3:06 PM CST up reply actions  

The only time i've brought up cody

Is either here where he was taking flak simply for not being a giant fat NT in college this year, or in another thread in response to someone stating they we have to improve at NT first and foremost because of the terrible tackles we have now. So you say he had a serviceable year, you say it was a fluke year, but where is that coming from exactly?

Cody was a defensive captain on the national title winning USC squad in ‘04, was a Lombardi finalist, and second round draft pick.., so he came into the league considered to have a fair ammount of potential. He missed some time with injuries early in his career, since then he’s played at about the same level throughout. When he came into camp this past year, the coaches raved about his versatility, and then used that to their advantage this season as they played him at both tackle positions throughout the year. The big knock on Cody is that at 6’4 and 310 lbs, he’s not the prototypical giant fat plodding NT… beyond stereotypes though, he’s been a serviceable player at his position for the better part of his career and will probably continue to be the same serviceable player for the next 5-6 years at least.

So while I respect your right to your own opinion, just because you think it was a fluke doesn’t mean that it actually was. Houston coaches have seemed to be fairly comfortable with Cody since early in camp, and I haven’t heard anything to suggest they were upset with his production or lack thereof at any point this season. On the otherhand, we played almost every corner we had at the #2 and nickle in the attempt to find a fit and our #1 may be gone next year if not resigned.

As always, i’ve never said we couldn’t stand to improve at NT, but I think it’s obvious which is the more pressing need if Robinson doesn’t resign and we don’t bring in any FAs.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 31, 2010 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Well there was the goal line stand where he totally whiffed on a tackle

Think that was one of the J-Ville games?

That’s gotta count for something.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 26, 2010 11:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I must've missed that one

But just wondering, how come it didn’t count as a “whiff” in these stats which claim he had none all year?

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 1:30 AM CST up reply actions  

No idea, I'm not privy to all of PFF's methods

I can tell you I marked that one as a clear blown tackle.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 27, 2010 7:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Did you know

That the Texans drafted an OLB who made the Pro Bowl in year one?

Or signed a SS who had over 100 tackles while playing up in the box?

I also like how you singled me out as if I suggested something foreign when there was a whole section devoted to how Cody was some dude. I’m not shouting out something ridiculous. Cody wasn’t the reason we improved our defense versus the run. We improved in spite of the lack of push from the middle of our defense (Cody and Okoye).

As bfd says, name 1 play where Cody shined.

by TexansDC on Jan 26, 2010 10:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I didn't single you out

I didn’t even mention you. There are plenty of people who feel the same as you.

Name 1 play where he shined? Ok, in that case name 1 play where any NT shined this season. There’s maybe a handful all year as keeps being said so often these days NTs count for much more than stats and their contributions tend to be overlooked. You don’t see the good so much as the lack of the bad, such as runners not running right through where our NT should be, such as was often the case with Travis Johnson. Or even the small things like how while not getting alot of stats, was in practically every pile on the ball no matter whether 5 yards behind the line or 10 yards beyond it, something that barely ever happened with our old “NT” Travis Johnson. And yea, how all 3 of our LBs had clean shots on opposing RBs at or near the line of scrimmage, while it’s easy to miss the DTs just doing their jobs, that’ll never happen unless they are. I don’t need to name one play where he was exceptional because I can think of a whole collection where the team benefitted from his replacing Johnson.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 1:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Last time...

Name 1? I don’t have to. I look at the top 5 defenses in terms of sacks:

Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Miami, Philadelphia, and San Francisco

I look at their NTs: Pat Williams, Casey Hampton, Jason Ferguson, Brodrick Bunkley, and Aubrayo Franklin.

Every one of those players is either a former Pro Bowler, former All Pro player, or in the top 25 at PFF (4 of the 5 are with the exception of Hampton).

It’s not a coincidence that 4 of the 5 of those teams are in the top 9 in rushing defense (Miami’s the lone exception). All 5 of those teams sit ahead of us in average yards per carry.

NTs are doing their jobs and it translates. Yes, we had the 10th best rushing defense, but that didn’t take off until after Cushing was settled into the NFL and after Pollard was inserted into the lineup (12 games, 2nd best rushing defense). 4 games before, with Cody, and we had a terribad rushing defense. A sieve would’ve been better. 12 games after, it was good…not great, but good. Regardless, our pass rush is still pretty lousy. All signs point to the lack of force in the middle. When we can’t even make Alex Smith or that Rams QB get happy feet…we have a problem.

You’re hellbent on a CB. I think Parrish Cox in round 2 would be great. I think he’s just as good as anyone. I assume we won’t go after Franklin in FA, re-sign Dunta (the only CB not under contract), and Williams is there at 20. It’s all an assumption.

However, after what I saw on Sunday, Peyton Manning shredded the best secondary in the league when he had time, why not boost your front four with someone like Williams?

If your pass rush is vicious then A) the QB doesn’t throw B) it’s a bad throw C) you don’t make up the yards from a previous sack. If you can get pressure by rushing 4 then 7 guys drop into coverage. If you have a NT who can free up Mario, Okoye, and Contonio into 1-on-1 matchups…you have something that can help against Peyton, and we will have to beat Peyton to get to the playoffs/Super Bowl.

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 1:55 AM CST up reply actions  

And if you have no corners to cover

Manning will 3 step drop you up and down the field all day long. NTs aren’t the end all be all and neither is the pass rush. I seem to recall the Vikings that you rave about having Pat Williams and an uber pass rush, failing to put even adequate pressure on Brees. A balanced defense is better than being great in one aspect and suspect in another, because a good well balanced attack will still rip you to shreds ProBowl NT or not, as long as you have a weakness it can be exploited.

I’m not hellbent on a CB, i’m simply scared to death that we’re going to go into next year having to rely on Reeves and Quinn at corner with pretty much no one behind them that you can’t safely rely on as of now. Maybe some people are ok with drafting a CB in the 3rd or 4th round to play reserve practically giving the jobs to Reeves and Quinn, but just the thought of that makes me feel like vomitting from nerves. Quinn played well for a rookie, but as we saw with Bennett that doesn’t always mean much, and Reeves is nowhere near capable of being a respectable #1 corner. To be quite honest, i’m shocked more people aren’t concerned over the possibility.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 2:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Those NTs...

Pat Williams: Undrafted, Casey Hampton: plays in a 3-4, Jason Ferguson: also plays in a 3-4 and he was a 7th-rounder, Brodrick Bunkley: 3-4, Aubrayo Franklin: 3-4 and a 5th-rounder.

Seems to be more an issue of scheme, to me. The top five defenses in football and seven of the top ten all run the 3-4. Don’t accuse me of being a 3-4 sympathizer—I’m just saying.

But every year, people try to make one position in football out to be the end-all position. That’s just not the case though. Yea, Pat Williams does a good job of clogging up the middle, but it certainly doesn’t hurt having Kevin Williams next to him. And Casey Hampton? Having Polamalu behind him and incredible talent at LB doesn’t hurt his cause. You need talent at every position. Shaun Rodgers is a great NT, but the Lions and Browns still sucked ass when he played. And how about the Jets? Kris Jenkins went down after six games this year and they still finished with the best defense in football.

You draft to your scheme, and you draft the best player available that you have even the slightest need for. As has been mentioned, we’ve traditionally used interchangeable DTs. It’s not a terrible thing; Indy has had relative success with it lately (and they don’t have nearly the talent we do at LB). If Dan Williams is really the best player on the board when we draft, I’m sure they’ll take him. But don’t expect them to draft him just because he’s a fatty. It takes more than size to play in the NFL (cough, Okam).

by Nashmeister on Jan 27, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Remember how piss poor Indy's rush defense has been in the past?

They finally gave up on those smaller DTs. Look at who they have starting, a guy weighing 317 and a guy weighing 310.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 11:57 AM CST up reply actions  

That's kind of funny

Because our starters are 315 and 310.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

And you might want to take a look at the Colts roster on yahoo

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/ind/roster

According to Yahoo the Colts are actually smaller than the Texans on the interior defensive line.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Why?

I never said anything about the Colts defense except that theird DTs are not really bigger than ours. You were the one who said they were piss poor untill they got bigger, which to me implies that they’re not piss poor now. But now you seem to be saying they are piss poor, i’m confused.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 6:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Just for fun? Maybe you shouldn’t respond to people debating something if you don’t want to be part of the debate?

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

That doesn't make sense to me

You post a factoid that contradicts an earlier point of yours and my not understanding why you would contradict yourself or why you decided i’m the one who should be aware of it when I wasn’t involved in a discussion about how good the Colts defense to begin with.

It’s not that I mind, you can put foot to mouth all day for all I care, I just don’t understand what it has to do with anything, which is why I said I was confused. You literally came out of left field with a comment that really only invalidated your earlier claims that the Colts didn’t become a good defense untill they got bigger in the interior.

I have no problem being part of a debate, but I get confused as to my part in it when someone starts debating themselves.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Bottom Fucking Line.

Bryan, I can understand why you want the Texans to draft a CB. I really do. Quin might go down the Bennett route and Frenchy isn’t really a bonafide #2 cover.

But when you glorify our shitty DT’s just so you can prove your point that CB is the #1 priority, you lose respect from everyone. I may have seen one or two instances when our DT’s collapsed the pocket and picked up the sack. The DT’s that we have on the roster are second string at best.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

And when you

Piss on players undeservedly in the attempt of showing how bad we “need” a NT you lose respect from me.

I have never claimed either of our DTs were anything more than serviceable, but you don’t make a serviceable player sound like the second coming of Travis Johnson just because you want to see the position improved. I’ve even agreed that i’d like to see a DT taken in the first if things worked out in the offseason giving us the luxury to do so. All of this CB vs DT started when I objected to the idea that we draft a NT in the first regardless of anything else that happens between now and then and not even considering that one of the two NTs raved about is strictly a 3-4 NT.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions  

But nobody compared Cody

to the travesty formerly known as Travis Johnson. We can’t keep trotting out serviceable DT’s and expect them to make a difference. That’s why we’re lobbying for an NT that can make an impact. Because we’re tired of seeing the same old thing coming from our DT’s. We’re not asking them to garner sacks or TFL’s, we just want a NT that can collapse a pocket so the QB can’t step in to throw . We all know that we can’t expect that from Cody and you know that too. So why comment 100 times on a thread to defend Cody?

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

If he wasn't bashed 100 times

I wouldn’t need to. My thoughts on Cody aren’t exactly new, even during the season I commented multiple times how much an improvement Cody was over Johnson and how I felt it helped our overall team defense, and just that it was refreshing to see that ammount of hussle at his position as we hadn’t seen that since Johnson was drafted. So after the season when someone says he’s just some dude that didn’t help our defense at all and is in fact a liability, of course i’m going to defend him. The CB vs NT debate has not bearing on that, i’d have defended him regardless.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Im glad you were counting how many times we bashed Cody

Because I wasn’t.

He was an improvement over TJ, but at the rate that TJ was going; everything would be an improvement over him.
Everybody noticed how improved our overall defense was but you can’t attribute that to Cody’s hustle. We did draft one helluva LB and picked up a hard-hitting safety.

You’re saying that you defending Cody doesn’t have any bearing on your stance in regards to the CB vs NT debate but I doubt that anybody would take this much effort into defending ANOTHER BODY in the DT rotation that couldn’t even beat out TRAVIS JOHNSON for more playing time last season.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think anyone bashed Cody much

Because no one realized he was playing on any given day. He just… was.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

If no one else did

I commented during the season that he was playing well for us so the comment that no one realized he was playing is inaccurate, and also qualifies as a bash. When you’re saying a starter on the team was insignificant enough not to even notice he was playing, you’re dissing him. So you’re saying he didn’t get bashed.., while you’re bashing him… sweet.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

You've been here for a while

and you still dont sense sarcasm?

geez.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

So you also

Accuse others of not sensing sarcasm while overlooking… you guessed it, sarcasm on the same thread you were responding to?… sweet.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

So you defending Cody

is nothing but sarcasm?

That solves everything.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Pardon?

Wasn’t this his first season with the team, and also the first season Johnson wasn’t on the team? How did he fail to beat out Travis Johnson, when Johnson was traded before the season got underway in Cody’s first season with the team?

No I said the CB vs NT debate has no bearing on my defense of Cody, but my opinion of Cody’s play for us does have a bearing on my opinion over the CB vs NT issue. I was making possitive comments about Cody this season before I even began to think about this upcoming draft, my defense of him is simply a continuation of those opinions.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 3:33 PM CST up reply actions  

You've been pardoned.

Oh. Travis Johnson was traded and this was Cody’s first season with the Texans? I didn’t notice that. Wanna know why? Because SHAUN CODY is jut another body in the DT rotation that I could care less about. He had little to no impact in our defense. Our defense didn’t improve because of his “hustle”, it improved because of Cushing and Pollard and Antonio Smith.

Cody BARELY made any difference.
I don’t understand why you keep defending him and going after the people that keep bashing him.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 3:57 PM CST up reply actions  

You don't understand?

Maybe you’re not listening the because I said like 5 times already I defend him because I actually liked the way he played for us this year and have felt that way since about week 5-6 on.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 4:36 PM CST up reply actions  

My point is that you are the only one who liked his play. Everyone else just shrugged their shoulders and forgot he was there because he did almost nothing.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 4:43 PM CST up reply actions  

You respond to that

but you don’t respond me pointing out that Cushing, Smith and Pollard are the ones that improved our defense. Not Cody’s hustle.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Can you explain to me what he is trying to argue anymore

He keeps saying we wont’ take a NT cause we usually don’t, but how does that help his cause when he wants a CB. I must be missing something in these unnecessarily long and rambling posts.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 28, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I wish I had all day just to fill up blogspace with my rants

that the Texans need to draft O-line twice in the first three picks of the 2010 Draft! But, I don’t. I can’t keep up with everyone’s volume, but when it comes to quality, there is no argument with my point. The Texans need to focus on the O-line. I know Smithiak is reading my posts and perched on the edge of their collective seats waiting for my words of wisdom. Draft O-line, Smithiak!

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 28, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

If only they were willing to do that...

But, of course, they’re most likely going to stick with their philosophy of drafting undersized linemen, then get crushed by the Jets and Ravens next year because they can’t stop a 3-4 NT and miss the wild-card by a game.

To their credit though, the defense isn’t exactly hole-free…

My philosophy though is that you aught to draft an offensive linemen within the first three rounds every single year. It’s like pitching in baseball; just when you think you’ve got enough, go out and get more. And if you lose a guy to injury or somebody turns out to be a bust, then draft two the next year.

As always, I’m hoping for a trade down to get another 2nd or 3rd-rounder so we can bag two linemen and a couple DBs.

by Nashmeister on Jan 28, 2010 11:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Wow, okay! Nashmeister....

I like your analogy. I like your strategy. While I can’t rule out the possibility of trading down, I don’t think it is very likely. But, you never know. They have to be in a spot where there is a player that another team just has to have. Then I would wonder, who could that player be and why don’t the Texans want that player……..

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 28, 2010 11:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, you know who does draft OL and DL nearly every year...

The Philadelphia Eagles. So there’s something to that strategy…of course, Philly hasn’t won a Super Bowl in their Reid era, but still…

by TexansDC on Jan 28, 2010 11:24 PM CST up reply actions  

There's nothing wrong with a OL/DL focus...

Games are won by the teams who can control both lines of scrimmage.

I would understand the logic if the Texans did any of the following:

NT Dan Williams, C Maurkice Pouncey, and OG Mike Johnson

or

OG Mike Iupati, C Maurkice Pouncey, NT Cam Thomas

or

OT Charles Brown, C Maurkice Pouncey, NT Cam Thomas

by TexansDC on Jan 28, 2010 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

I doubt we take two offensive lineman, but you never know. If we can get a NT, a interior lineman and a CB in the first 3 rounds I’ll be happy. Gonna have to keep an eye on Thomas and Troup.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 29, 2010 11:15 AM CST up reply actions  

I never said I would want that

However, I would be able to see the reasoning behind such a move. You can never go wrong with strengthening the lines.

by TexansDC on Jan 29, 2010 11:28 AM CST up reply actions  

The Colts D...

does just enough. Yards aside, they don’t break often.

It’s easy when you have Captain Fivehead at QB though…he’ll put up enough points.

If we could score more TDs than we’d be in a similar situation. However, our offense disappears in the red zone.

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I’ve never claimed the Colts were a good defense or even that they’ve greatly improved. They’re an offensive team and their defense is designed more for big plays than stopping people consistently. They’ll get a few big plays consecutively and give the ball back to their offense occasionally, that’s all that’s needed when your offense scores as much as they do. Their lack of size at NT isn’t the lone culprit for them not being a dominant defense though, they’re undersized pretty much to the man on defense and try to make up for it with speed and quickness. That speed aids in the playmaking department, not so much for consistently getting stops.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 28, 2010 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

wow

yahoo sports is totally the go to source for sports journalism /not. There is no way in hell Okoye is 315 pounds.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 2:27 PM CST up reply actions  

odd

The media packet sent out must have had 315 or something. Wiki has 302, the actual texans site has 29×. I’m still saying Okoye isn’t over 310.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I never know who to trust on measurables...

I have a feeling that the Texans website doesn’t get updated quite as often as say, nfl.com or espn. Okoye is most likely somewhere in the middle though; 305-310 range, I’d imagine. He had to have bulked up a little bit since his rookie year.

Then again, nba.com lists Aaron Brooks at 6’0", so I’m not sure I trust these official sports sites either.

by Nashmeister on Jan 27, 2010 7:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Yet Team sites

Which updates player weights once every 5 years if they get around to it,and if not they stay listed at rookie weight their entire career for the team are much more reliable

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 2:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Neither of which is a true NT.

And one of whom was undrafted, while the other was a fifth-round pick.

by Nashmeister on Jan 27, 2010 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

"I can't, but it doesn't matter"

Well obviously it does to other people. Perhaps that should be a sign that you should reconsider your view. Or perhaps it should be a sign that you should type out “nose tackles aren’t good so much as they aren’t bad and Cody was not bad because he was not Travis Johnson” for the 100th time in a different form in reply to it.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 27, 2010 7:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Or we could say

That a first round NT at pick #20 will be able to collapse the pocket, command and occupy double teams, improve our already solid run defense and cover up the fact that we might not be able to cover anyone for any length of time for the millionth time. Opinions are like buttholes, everyone has one and they’re pretty much all full of crap. I’m just putting out my opinion and as long as someone is arguing against it or trying to invalidate it, i’ll defend it. If that means repeating points that I feel should be obvious untill they sink in, so be it

Cody has been described as anything from just some guy to a terrible NT, without any justification other than his lack of statistics. By pointing out Cody was a vast improvement over our previous starter, it shows that he’s clearly not “just some guy” because obviously not every DT in the league would have performed to his level. So I feel he’s slighted in that regard. The fact that no one has really accused him of making many mistakes on the field or getting beated badly at the line repeatedly, he can’t really be a “terrible” player either. Why shouldn’t I defend one of our players whose getting undue criticism simply because he’s not fat enough, or didn’t have enough stats to suit?

He’s lack of production as a pass rusher has alot to do with him not even playing in obvious passing downs. Yes teams pass on other downs, but on those downs defenses are going to call more balanced and run defensive plays, so he was likely never given the freedom to pin his ears back and rush the QB, whether he could or not.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 10:25 AM CST up reply actions  

See, this is exactly why I just snarked and was done with it in the other thread

You’re not open to anyones opinions on this topic, yet you keep expecting us to change our minds based on what you are saying, which, for the fourth time, is “Shaun Cody is better than Travis Johnson so he’s a difference maker.” The Texans were invested in Travis Johnson to the point where they pretty much had to put him on the field, regardless of actual performance. He’s utter crap, and even with San Diego’s NT out for the season, he played sparingly there, because they also became aware of this fact.

As for this “no one has pointed out mistakes” card, how many people watch linemen on the field closely enough to notice, especially in the run game? How many people focused on Mario Williams’ lack of sacks instead of his improvement in the run game? Almost nobody. Shaun Cody can be pushed around. He’s not a game changer. He’s a guy. A good backup NFL player. Acting like he’s the messiah and making it rain 500 word comments for him because he wasn’t Travis Johnson and was on a defense that significantly improved (clearly not because of him, as was evident in the first three weeks) in the run game is silly.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 27, 2010 12:52 PM CST up reply actions  

So he was an improvement over Johnson

But he was just some dude with a pulse who had no real impact on the defense’s performance? You can’t improve on a position without giving the defense at least a chance to perform better, to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. If it’s clear he was an improvement at NT, it’s also clear his playing in Houston was beneficial to the team, not a hinderence.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 2:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Okay then, lemme point out something that was pointed out to me

FO made a list of the top DL Stop rate vs. run, which Cody is #1 on

Seems to support your point, yes?

But look at it another way: he was involved in 18 plays the whole season, a really small sample size. Most DL run stop rates are around 75%, so you can say that his “upgrade” over the average DL was 4 whole plays over the course of 16 games. Which while nice, is not changing the way the Texans play football. Then there are the odds that he comes back to earth and that this was a fluke compared to the rest of his career (pretty high) and the fact that he rarely ever took on two blockers, and to me it’s pretty evident that he’s just not that valuable a player to the run stuffing.

And I don’t really see how people are shortchanging him. Nobody is saying he was worse than Travis Johnson. He’s just not changing any game plans. My eyes bear out the fact that he was not much of a factor to me. If you want to give him ubercredit for the run defense improvement, that’s fine, but you’re likely to be disappointed next year.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 29, 2010 5:28 AM CST up reply actions  

"Meteoric improvement" occurred when Pollard was inserted into the lineup.

Not that he is a sole reason, as I said above.

Also, being better than Travis Johnson is not exactly carrying the world on your back. I mean, Cody didn’t shit his pants on every play, so of course he was better.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 26, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

I never said that Cody was the sole reason either

But if everyone agrees he was an improvement on who he replaced, it’s literally impossible that he wasn’t an influence in the improvements defensively against the run, especially at a position like NT which may be the single most important position on the field when defending the run.

I don’t think he gets the credit that he’s earned. No one suggested he was an all-pro, just that he’s a steady starter who, while not making a ton of big plays, doesn’t give up many either which is good for overall team defense. Theoretically if you have all 11 players on defense effectively doing nothing but their part, you have a very difficult team to score against. Alot of defenses really don’t ask their DTs to do more than that, you can point to one DT or another throughout the league, but it could just as well be a schematic thing where our “NT” simply isn’t asked to do what everyone is crowing for (which could also help explain why despite fans wishes, the team hasn’t yet seemed all that concerned about their lack of a “giant space eater”) And since I haven’t seen many people complaining about all the plays that Cody blew, I think it’s rather safe to assume he’s not the problem child of our defense so replacing him alone probably won’t net the results you’re hoping for, no matter who replaces him.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 1:22 AM CST up reply actions  

essentially

If you finish in the bottom half in the league in any category it’s because you have players not doing their jobs, so while improving at NT could certainly help mask some of those inadequacies, why not just sack the guys not pulling weight rather than replacing a guy who does pretty much exactly what is asked of him. It should be just as easy to weed out the bad apples rather than insert a nice fat shiny one on top the pile in hopes that it will raise the value of the entire basket.

by Bryan72076 on Jan 27, 2010 1:28 AM CST up reply actions  

By those definitions

The only player I’d say blew a lot on defense who wasn’t an injury fill-in was Dunta

Lets draft a whole new offense!

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 27, 2010 7:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I just don't see the argument that this big NT is what the Texans need more than anything

especially more than help on the O-line. As, always, I really appreciate your views, findings and the dirty work that you do, Rivers! You are a fountain of useful and educated information.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 26, 2010 10:43 PM CST reply actions  

The chances of us taking a lineman in the first are super duper low, the reasons for which have been covered in depth. We can get DB help pretty much at any time, with little drop off from who would be available to us in the first. The talent at NT after the 2 guys available in the first is so low no one will be worth taking till probably the 4th. If Dan Williams is still available theres a pretty darn good chance he is going to be the best pick available, and would address a major need.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 26, 2010 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say super duper low...

For some reason, USC’s Charles Brown just keeps popping into my head.

I know every single mock draft has us taking: Dan Williams, Bruce Price, Earl Thomas, or (Georgia Tech RB) Johnathan Dwyer, but I just wouldn’t be surprised if Brown ended up in Houston.

by TexansDC on Jan 26, 2010 10:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Your head

is not Kubiaks or Smiths head. They have said nothing to make me think they want to replace Brown at LT, and they have been saying things making it sound like they like our guards.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 26, 2010 11:26 PM CST up reply actions  

When you hear “perfect for the zone blocking scheme,” it makes it hard not to believe that they wouldn’t give him a good look. For the sake of the franchise, I hope they do because I want the front office to have that mindset: we need to look at possible upgrade for each position

by TexansDC on Jan 26, 2010 11:55 PM CST up reply actions  

The argument for a NT goes as such

- The pass rush is still bad.
- Frank Bush’s blitz schemes are still bad, but he’s also the coach of the BEST DEFENSE IN FRANCHISE HISTORY™
- Getting a NT who can provide a push and requires two blockers frees up Okoye, Smith, and Mario to do their thing.
- Side effect: the run defense gets even more stout.

All things being equal, I’d rather have a NT, but the Texans have a history of drafting BPA in the first (which is good), and I actually think if I had to bet money on them picking someone tonight, it’d be on Taylor Mays. There are quite a few defensible pick positions to me, and I won’t be whining too hard as long as one of them is met. Just, all things being equal, I would rather build from the lines out and the Texans have never had a real havoc causing nose.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 27, 2010 12:00 AM CST up reply actions  

I think Taylor Mays will not be available at 20

He will be a “Workout Warrior” at the Combine who moves up.

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 27, 2010 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

If he is going in the top 20 it will have to be the raiders

Because so far he has been terrible at the Senior Bowl.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 7:53 PM CST up reply actions  

No franchise gets it wrong more often than...

the Oakland Raiders.

Their decade of draft success:

2000: Sebastian Janikowski (A kicker in round 1? 3rd time it ever happened)
2001: Derrick Gibson (no longer playing football)
2002: Philip Buchanon (need I say more?); Napolean Harris (UFL scrub)
2003: Nnamdi Asomugha (a great pick); Tyler Brayton (Who?)
2004: Robert Gallery (A bust at LT, seeing success at LG, the only player from the 1st 8 picks of 2004 to not make the Pro Bowl).
2005: Michael Huff (benched)
2006: Fabian Washington (traded for a 4th round pick)
2007: JaMarcus Russell (benched)
2008: Darren McFadden (being wasted in Oakland, not a favorite of Cable’s)
2009: Darrius Heyward-Bey (Ye of 9 receptions)

by TexansDC on Jan 27, 2010 8:19 PM CST up reply actions  

One can hope...

he’s grossly overpaid to be a back-up/split time. His contract isn’t up until 2012.

by TexansDC on Jan 28, 2010 10:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Wilson, Barber, Huff

Sounds like a good FS rotation.

by Jordann on Jan 28, 2010 10:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Seattle has two picks in the 1st round

and Pete Carroll is the new coach….

I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?

by Rip Jersey on Jan 27, 2010 8:29 PM CST up reply actions  

THAT is a great point

Also maybe Brown. I could see some serious nepotism there. SS? You here?

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Jan 27, 2010 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I think

You have to post some pictures of Brandon Russel first. That’ll lure him in for sure.

www.manningface.com

by nolander on Jan 27, 2010 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Possible

But I think the poor practices and the fact that he’s one of three separate first round safeties (pretty rare) will push him down to about where we are picking.

- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter

by riversmccown on Jan 29, 2010 5:57 AM CST up reply actions  

Really at the end of the day, I hope they just get a couple legit football players.

I certainly don’t know the stats, but I feel like 1st round DT’s are an exceptionally high bust risk. Whereas the elusive “real footballer with size/speed” criteria seem to be the lowest risk. Gamechangers can be at any position. Not just Fatties. While I don’t know much about Cody, wasn’t he a 2nd rounder and is playing every bit as well as either of the 1st round DT’s we drafted in Okoye and or Travis Johnson. Real football guys are more versitile and go beyond what they are required to do…I want more Cushings & Demeco’s, wherever they are in the draft. That said, if we could find one at the NT who (along with another OLB) could allow us to slide into a hybrid 3/4 when the situation calls for it…I’d like to see it.
The thing is, my best guess is that the OL’s inability to help us pound the rock in short yardage situations, open legit lanes or get us to the second level cost us 3-to-4 games this season easy. If we could’ve dominated the line (even occationally) we could’ve eatt’n clock when we had a lead, taken games out of a wacko kicker’s hands, really sold the bootlegs (which is only going to get harder to do if we can’t run it again this year), keep our whole defense fresh…blah blah blah… Ideally we’d land two versitile OL men (a C/G and a G/T) who outclass their competition. That and a reasonable all-purpose back (who doesn’t share the rock with the opposing team’s defense) would translate to more w’s next year than a Titan DT or any Defensive upgrades really in my book..
I mean is it me or isn’t DT one of the hardest positions to project success at? I would love to get one cover guy on the team as well. Just one really good cover guy! oh yeah, and a damn kicker!!! We’ve still got needs…but I say trade down until we can get value at our positions of need then snatch’m’up. We can trade down & out of the first if we don’t like the OL talent value we see. But 2 of the the 1st 3 guys we draft should be Interior Linemen. And they should be real football players! The draft Rocks!

by Smittybaby on Jan 27, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

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