The Owen Situation
There's been a lot of talk in a lot of different threads over the last week about what to do with Owen Daniels. My thoughts on it have evolved as the discussion has gone along and (more importantly) as I've really tried to wrap my brain around the various scenarios. It's these scenarios that keep getting lost in the proverbial shuffle as all of the discussions in the comments -- and I'm guilty of this, too, to an extent -- keep boiling down to "tag him" versus "trade him." That's far from covering every possible scenario. Let's review. First, let's review the impact of having a new CBA versus not having one and thus being uncapped in 2010.
- If a new CBA is reached and implemented in time for the 2010 season, it is probably safe to assume that the years required for free agency, both restricted and unrestricted, will remain the same. In that case, Daniels would be an unrestricted free agent (UFA) who could either be signed or tagged as a franchise player or transition player.
- If a new CBA is NOT reached and the year is uncapped, we revert back to the old rule and, based on years of service, Daniels will be a restricted free agent (RFA). In that situation, he could be signed to a new deal, slapped with a franchise or transition tag (teams are going to have one franchise and one transition tag to use in this situation), OR tendered a one-year offer.
Now, what would each of those options entail?
- We sign him to a long-term deal.
Pro: Daniels is happy and is no longer a question mark. He is locked up for (probably) 6 years if you want to keep him that long and, since there are not guaranteed contracts, you can always cut ties sooner if you have to.
Con: We have no idea if he's going to comeback as Owen Daniels or Dunta Daniels. Based upon 2009 salaries for TEs, he is probably going to get a deal that will have a cap number around $6M (minimum), which is the most expensive of these options. If he doesn't come back 100% and you have to cut ties too soon, we are probably looking at a sizeable cap hit. If there is no CBA, and thus no cap, you are gambling to a certain extent that a new CBA will not adversely impact contracts signed after the end of 2009 (though that is probably a safe assumption). - We slap a franchise tag on him.
[Author's note: Franchise tags may be either exclusive or non-exclusive. In the former, the team applying the tag is the only team the player may sign with and the tendered offer must be the average of the top 5 salaries for his position calculated as of the close of the 2010 free agency signing period. In the latter, the tender offer is the average of the top five salaries at the player's position calculated based on 2009 salaries and the player is free to negotiate with another team as if he were an UFA. However, it will cost another team TWO first-round picks to sign the player. Thus, in practice, the non-exclusive tag is almost always used.]
Pro: You give Daniels a year at roughly $4.88M (if unexclusive, or likely closer to $5.3M if exclusive) to prove he's worth a longer deal. If he is, you've saved the difference between what a new contract would have paid him in 2010 and what the applied tag paid him. Once the tender is signed, you create a situation like Matt Cassell's wherein you can still pull off a trade if you want to. (More on that in a bit.)
Con: You risk having a Julius Peppers situation where the franchise tender is unsigned until the July deadline, which prevents any other teams from inquiring with the Texans about obtaining Daniels. (Daniels could talk to other teams, assuming it was a non-exclusive franchise tender, but the only talks would be "hey, you wanna give the Texans two first-rounders for me? No? Ok.") You also risk, if Owen really wanted to stick it to the team, that he would not sign until the absolute last minute, the Tuesday after week 10. In terms of being able to trade Daniels, if that is your goal, you create a whole bunch of extra hoops to jump through in the form of multiple negotiations between multiple parties before anything can get done. - We slap a transition tag on him.
[Normally, a team has an either/or choice between f-tag and t-tag. However, in 2010, there will be one of each available to teams. T-tags require a team to tender an offer in the amount of the average of the top 10 salaries at the player's position from 2009 or a 20% raise over his 2009 salary, whichever is greater. A team that t-tags a player retains right of first refusal on any deal the player may negotiate with another team, i.e. if a t-tagged player reaches an agreement with another team, his original team must either match the deal or let him walk.]
Pro: Cheaper than a franchise tag. You are able to see what Daniels is actually worth on the open market and then simply match that number if you agree with it.
Con: If he reaches an agreement with another team that you feel is too costly, you get nothing in return for letting him walk. There's an implication associated with t-tags that the team doesn't feel the player is worth the money of an f-tag, which is never good for morale or your long term chance of signing the player. - Assuming 2010 is uncapped and Daniels a RFA, you use the tender offer rules for RFAs
[For restricted free agents, a team may tender an offer at a predetermined level. The player is free to negotiate with any other teams, but any team signing him to a contract owes specific compensation in the form of draft picks with the rounds for those picks tied to the level of the tender offer. For 2009, the levels and corresponding picks were $1.01M (right of first refusal), higher of $1.01M or 110% of player's 2009 salary (right of first refusal and draft pick from same round where player was originally drafted), higher of $1.545M or 110% of player's 2009 salary (r.f.r. and second-round pick), higher of $2.198M or 110% (r.f.r. and first-round pick), higher of $2.792 or 110% (r.f.r. and first- and third-round picks). In Daniels' case, the options would pretty much be limited to the first or last level as the dollar amounts for each would always be the 110% figure.]
Pro: Cheaper than either tag or a new contract. Establishes a pricetag for any team interested in acquiring him sans negotiation with Houston. If it becomes necessary to f-tag Daniels for the following season, most likely makes that f-tag number lower than it would be with back-to-back f-tags. If he signs the tender, he becomes tradeable just like any of the other scenarios.
Con: Daniels unlikely to be thrilled with getting less money simply because of a loophole in the 2010 rules. Not likely that anyone is going to give up a first- and third-round draft pick for a tight end, especially one coming off an injury. Taking advantage of the change in FA rules seems like the most likely option to make Daniels refuse to sign a long-term deal. He'll probably complain about it on Facebook.
OK...now, assuming we don't sign him to a long-term contract, which of those options makes the most sense (and why)? I think that depends entirely on the ultimate goal the team has vis-a-vis Daniels. Here's what I mean: if the goal is to trade him because you think Dreessen/Casey/one of the seven TEs you take in the next draft can give you the same (or similar) production and you want to use Daniels' value to fill other holes, I think you use the RFA tender rules. This is because (a) it gives you that 1% chance that someone signs him and you get 1/3 picks, which, let's be honest, is WAY more than he (or pretty much any TE) is worth; and (b) if no one takes the offer, you can still shop him while only being on the hook for the least money possible if you can't find a buyer (plus also keeping your f-tag cost for 2011 down).
On the other hand, if you are not interested in moving Daniels because you really think he's top-5 TE material and integral to the future success of this team, I think you tag him with an exclusive franchise tag so that he earns a little more than he would have under the non-exclusive and so he can't sign with any other team. That's a move that says, "look, we are committed to having you as a Texan, but we have to make sure you're healthy. We're giving you as much cash as we can under the circumstances. Show us you're healthy and we'll start working with you on a long-term deal that will pay you exactly what you deserve as soon as we're allowed to."
All of which is to say, while the two options come down to "keep him" or "trade him," I think you have to choose a different path from the jump depending on your option. It makes no sense to me to non-exclusive f-tag him, have him sign, and then shop him.
SIDE NOTE: Because, if you've read this far, I figure you'll read more. In the negotiations for the new CBA, there has been some talk (though not much) of trying to find a way to make it easier for teams to keep their stars instead of losing them to the bigger name teams. I have a solution -- the hometown discount. If they are serious about this, then I propose having any subsequent contract signed by a player with the team who drafted him only count 80% of its value against the team's cap. Thoughts?
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Good question.
In this case, I like the idea of using an exclusive f-tag on him. Here’s why.
- he’s still young, and it’s reasonable he still has a long and awesome career.
- yeah, the tag will probably piss him off regardless, but if you go exclusive, he’ll at least feel a little love. I think if you go non-exclusive, he’ll feel like he’s being used. At that point, it’s goodbye long term deal.
- but, at the same time, we need to be prudent about making sure he’s going to be OK after surgery. It wasn’t nearly as bad as Dunta’s, but it was bad enough.
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Oh, and I love the idea of an 80% hometown discount on the cap
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
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That's the direction...
I’m leaning that way as well, mainly because I don’t think we’d get even a second-rounder for him right now, so why risk pissing him off by shopping him like that?
Jim Caldwell delenda est.
by MDC on Jan 7, 2010 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
Alex Hill
If the Texans are serious about him and actually want him to contribute next year they will have to trade someone or let someone walk. I don’t see how they keep 4 TE on the roster, unless they plan on running a ton of 2 TE sets and are fine with having fewer wide recievers, or some other crazy business.
In which case I imagine it comes down to trading Dreesen or OD and OD has much more value. Any chance we can get anything worthwhile for Dreesen?
As a sixth-round pick
who has never caught more than 20 passes in a season, you’d really have to work to convince a team that he was worth more than what it looked like on the face of things (based, I suppose, entirely on his last four games). Plus, we just signed him to a 3 yr / $3.6M contract last February, so you also have to hope you can convince people that he’s worth at least $2.4M over 2 years in case he doesn’t want to renegotiate.
Short answer: I could see him netting us a fifth-round pick. Maybe.
On the other hand, I agree with you re: not likely to keep 4 TEs.
Jim Caldwell delenda est.
by MDC on Jan 7, 2010 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
Hill might be the odd man out.
If we f-tag or resign OD.
Besides that one catch where he trucked the hell out of a defender, I don’t see us getting anything out of him.
That's too much reading for a Thursday.
But im glad that somebody took the time to put everything together instead of scattered discussions in the comment section of some random fanpost.
Im under the impression that resigning OD isn’t our #1 priority this off-season.
I see him getting an exclusive F-tag because it does show some kind of commitment
like what you said above, and leaving it at that. Now it’s up to OD if he wants to be all douchey and sensitive like Cunta. I wouldn’t want to go through that same thing again.
Things would’ve been totally different if the injury didn’t happen. He was in the middle of a probowl season and sticking it to Rick Smith for not signing him when it was cheaper. He would’ve probably gotten a long term deal from us or we would’ve gotten a second and a fifth rounder for him. But as of now, I don’t see us getting anything higher than a 4th for him because of his injuries.
I like OD a lot, and I think that he WAS worth the money he was asking for this past off-season. Keyword: WAS. With that being said, I think we can use Dressen and Casey to supplant the production that we’re gonna be missing if we trade OD. If we can get a third and a 5th/6th/7th for him, im all for it. Those two extra draft picks can go a long way towards plugging our holes.
*injury
not injuries
And I forgot to mention why I dont think he’s gonna be our #1 priority this off-season.
I dont know if yall forgot about it but, DeMeco will also be a RFA. And we all know what he’s worth. Actually, the rest of the league does too so he’ll be demanding top five money. And he deserves it.
Great Post MDC.
I think the exclusive f-tag sounds like the most reasonable option. But I think it depends more on what Smith thinks he has in Casey and Hill, that will influence his decision. I think the Texans would be ok at tight end even if we lose OD without compensation. I also like the idea of the hometown discount on the cap.
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"seven tight ends you take in next year's draft" ??
We have eight picks this year, don’t we?
Speaking of the eighth pick, TJ is a free agent!
This post is very informative. You should start your own blog.
I think OD is offered a 1 year deal, turns it down, and we f-tag him. The rest is really up to him.
I think he showed this season how he plays when he has something to prove. And we don’t play on that injury-inducing Buffalo turf any this year, so we’re all set.
Nothing to see here, Rick. Concentrate on DeMeco Ryans retiring a Texan. Hit him up at 10:30 tonight if Bama shocks the world.
Mount Cody in round 1
Re: 8 picks
True, but even Kubes has to know that we need a kicker.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
by MDC on Jan 7, 2010 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
TJ can be our kicker.
How can you not remember the scrambling of Trent Green’s brain by TJ?
Strong legs = good kicker
right?
kicking is all mental
and TJ is mental
so there’s that
Mount Cody in round 1
by texanphil on Jan 7, 2010 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Good thoughts.
I like the hometown discount idea.
As for OD, he’s third-priority this off-season in my opinion. Get DeMeco and Pollard inked, then move onto him. The exclusive franchise tag probably makes the most sense, coming off that injury. And while he might be pissed about not getting a long-term deal when you do it, it’s pretty damn hard to burn a bridge in the NFL. Just look at Dunta. He felt “betrayed”, yet he came crawling back. Of course, that might have more to do with the fact that nobody else in the league is going to pay him now…
I wouldn’t be opposed to a long-term deal now either. Coming off that injury, you probably won’t have to pay him Winslow-type money. And while there’s a slight risk of him not returning to form, keep in mind, he had knee issues in college and he bounced back to pro-bowl form in the NFL. Knees are important for anyone, but a TE losing a tenth of a second on his 40-time isn’t quite as detrimental as say, a CB losing a step. OD’s greatest assets are his hands, size, his ability to find the seams in a zone defense, and his chemistry with Schaub.
I’d give him four years, ~$20 million.
Totally agree
We offer him a reasonable mid term deal. 20 million over 4 years sounds about right.
It certainly isn’t what he would have received if healthy, but now there is an unknown factor of the injury. I think this deal would be more respectable than a franchise tag.
by distant_texans_fan on Jan 7, 2010 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
Depending on the structure
that sounds about right. Right now, the highest base salary among TEs is The Soldier’s $5.17M. If OD’s was 4 for $20M with, say, $16M guaranteed, I think we’re close.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
by MDC on Jan 7, 2010 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
Hometown discount
sounds good in theory. Not sure about in practice.
Foster was on our practice squad the first 3/4 of the season, and we had to sign him to a contract for that. Someone could have poached him from us and given him a contract. Does that team become his hometown team?
Is it the first team to put him on the roster? First team to sign him to a contract? Answer me, dammit.
Mount Cody in round 1
OD, Meco and Random FA Nose Tackle
too many variables until we know how much cap space we have.
Any estimates?
To me it affects KW more than anyone, as I agree w/ Matt about the OD tender.
Mount Cody in round 1
2010 still looks to be uncapped
I think the only thing that can change that is if a new CBA gets in place. If there is no cap, it gets potentially very interesting to see which owners go on a spending spree.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 10, 2010 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
Or...
Which owners become incredibly misley bastards and don’t spend a cent.
by distant_texans_fan on Jan 10, 2010 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
Simple answer
I give him the RFA tender in the (in my eyes likely) event that there is no new CBA. I don’t mind alienating him too much this point because a) I’m not 100% positive that he’s an integral part of the offense, b) he’s coming off a severe injury, and c) he’s pretty damn close to 30 already. Maybe you rankle him, but teams always have the final say with the franchise tag and if he does bounce back completely then we’ll see what we can do.
If he’s not…I’d make a solid (not great) offer and let him go if he gets better. There’s too many question marks around him at this point. Like you allude to, this reeks of the Dunta situation, both with him threatening a hold out and the injury. I don’t think I’d cross the $4.5 m cap figure line for him if we’re signing him long term. Either that or there has to be an easy void within 1-2 years.
I’d like them to overhaul the entire cap system to make it easy enough so that regular fans understand what is going on before they work on things like your hometown discount idea, although I do think it’s a worthy idea.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
and if dunta
gets the shaft this offseason, it will help Rick Smith’s cause re: OD tremendously.
Dunta may pay dividends for McNair. The $9M investment will save him headaches and $$ on future holdout potentials.
Mount Cody in round 1
hometown discount
I have nothing to add re: OD. The only question this post didn’t answer is, in the increasingly likely event that there will be NO football in 2011, what effect that might have on long-term contracts.
But the hometown discount is probably a bad idea: it will dramatically help big-spending rich teams (like the Texans, I suppose, but still) while hurting the small market teams. The small market teams don’t have extra money to increase their base salaries, while the rich teams do. That is precisely what would happen with the hometown discount: the small market teams wouldn’t go over the nominal salary cap in any case, while this would simply allow the rich teams to do so.
But if you did do this, I would say make only available to the first team for which a player played three consecutive seasons, or something like that.
well if it benefits the Texans
who cares about these small market teams?
I say press on!
Mount Cody in round 1
Oh Man!
Too soon! Too soon! I can’t think this hard yet!!!
Dunta Daniels, hahaha! I haven’t seen any evidence that OD will pull anything like Dunta did. I don’t think he has that in him. Bottom line, CBA status or not, the least disruptive action would be to sign him and not trade him. Sure, this team/system can survive and evolve with the loss of any of it’s players, with the exception of Matt Schaub, IMO. Even with the loss of Andre Johnson, this team/system would rebound. It wouldn’t be as good, but it would be effective. Bringing in a new QB would totally set it back. But, if they can sign OD at the price that fits the team budget, then he is our man. I hate to sound so matter-of-fact by taking all the emotion out of it, but that is the end-game, you know. The TE slot has a maximum value. Rick Smith has it memorialized in an Excel spreadsheet on his notebook computer. If OD needs more money than that value, then guess what? He won’t be signed and the other options that you speak about come into play.
That’s why priority number one in the off-season has to be bolstering the O-line! There, I snuck that in…what?
Very thorough and thoughtful write-up, MDC! But, too soon!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Priority #1
Please don’t go down this road of O-lineman as our top need. I will agree we need some help in that area but it is far from the #1 area. I use the fact that the team(even after OD went down) we as a team were able to put 3-5 td’s in almost all our games; however we also gave up as many or more as well(hence 9-7). Without much of a ground game the line still held up well enough for the team to go pass happy, and all the opponents knew we were going to throw on almost every play all year long. So lets get some much needed cover players, and pass rushers, and the #1 need A RUN GAME!!!!
The fact is...
We have 2 or 3 lineman with contracts up. The offensive line needs to be addressed first especially since we want to keep Schaub upright for another 16-20 games.
Thank you DC
We need to do something about the interior of the O-line. That’s my opinion, like it or not, RonL. The O-line suffered from injuries this season and we don’t know how those players will bounce back next season. Plus, the back-up players that became starters did not perform to an NFL-standards level and I do not think they are capable. It’s a glaring weak link in the team. I can’t quarrel with you on your comments on the defense. The team can use an upgrade there, too. I just happen to put a higher priority of doing something to bolster the O-line. You mentioned the RUN GAME!!!! It is hard to run between the tackles when you are running into the backs of your own lineman because they can’t open holes. That was the case more often than not this past season. Pass protection was also an issue. I give Matt Schaub much credit for making the O-line look better in pass protection because he became extremely more adept at getting rid of the ball this season. We need to upgrade the O-line, sir. That is my personal top priority.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
We cannot be misled by the impressive running game in the NE game
The Pats had their top 2 run stuffers (Warren & Wilfork) on the sidelines, and frequently played with 2 or fewer D linemen. When we were moving the pile in short yardage, it wasn’t against a typical defensive alignment we will face next season. We have games against several very yough 3-4 defenses next season. Yes Arian Foster looked impressive in the last 2 games, but we could use some help at C/G. Winston and Brown are adequate at the tackles, and Caldwell looks capable of starting at RG next year, but we need a bigger center and could use depth at G. We don’t yet know if Pitts is going to be healthy. Had he not gone down injured, he may have been too expensive to resign anyway. Brisiel was OK, but certainly not star caliber. Don’t know about his health status as well. White performed well, but he and Butler are better suited to be backups than starters. Keeping Schaub upright and improving the short game can both be addressed by adding a G and C in the draft or FA.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 10, 2010 5:20 PM CST up reply actions
new OC
new guards, etc.
I think the FO will proceed this offseason as if the running game is priority #2. Defense appears to be a common theme as priority #1 every offseason.
Mount Cody in round 1
so you say
O-lineman are NOT are top need. Then you say our #1 need is a run game?
Does Baltimore have 3 quality RB’s? Or a good OL? I think its too much of a coincidence to say whomever they plug in there just runs well.
Plus a good OL helps the passing game, too.
Mount Cody in round 1
Thank you phil, for re-establishing that the O-line is the #1 priority!
It is. It really is.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
You and I already talked about this, MDC
But just to share, I am all about the franchise tag direction. Sure, he will be unhappy, but he has to understand coming off that injury.
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He can't be too upset
He does play on the same team with Dunta, after all, so there shouldn’t be any surprises.
The Texans.
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 10, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
IMO
I think if you franchise tag OD I do believe from his character that he wont pull a Doonta. I think he will understand that the Texans want him here but aren’t going to risk the dent in our pocket books if he does not perform.Until his injury OD was blowing it up, he is an all around TE blocking, running routes like a WR and hands like fly paper. I would hate to see him go without knowing for sure if his Knee Injury was Doontafying!
Go Texans!
You don't see OD doing that?
Why? Because he’s “heady” and “scrappy?”
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
re:Doontafying
If the analysisizers here are correct, and Dunta played decent over the last 5 games of the season, then his knee injury wasn’t the problem.
It was his attitude, lack of preparation, and whiny, bitch-like personality.
Mount Cody in round 1
From what I understand
The injuries dunta sustained take a very long time to heal, and could have still been some factor this year, but I could be wrong, I’ll have to differ to Dr. Rivers Mccown MD on this one.
www.manningface.com
Don't let him fool you
Rivers is a proctologist
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
So you are saying he knows a lot about assholes?
Making him probably the foremost expert about Dunta on this board no?
www.manningface.com
by nolander on Jan 11, 2010 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
How about this..
Rick calls him into the office, They sit down, and have brief discussion about the injury and how the season was going up until that point.
Then, Rick puts two offers on the table. OD can choose to be franchised for a year, or sign a 3-4 year deal with less per season.
Its all out in the open, it shows respect towards Rick, as long as OD realises that he is in the same spot as Dunta last year. There is an unknown factor that the team can’t afford to waste money on.
by distant_texans_fan on Jan 10, 2010 1:42 AM CST reply actions
Wait!.....first, what has Rick "promised?"
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
About that hometown discount
I like it in principle, but word around the campfire is that if next year is uncapped (likely) the NFLPA will not agree to another cap.
Good to see you’re back on the wagon.
Or is it off the wagon?
I've heard that rumor
but I think it might be the NFLPA trying to bluff. After all, they agreed to a cap in exchange for free agency and whatnot in the 90s, so I can’t imagine they’d refuse this time as long as they got some sort of concessions.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
Looking grim
Neither side is going to give up anything that they don’t have to, but it’s depressing me hearing some of the extreme “going in” positions being bandied about. I struggle to get through the “dark times” between seasons as it is… The thought of no football in 2011 because of both sides being greedy pigs just sickens me.
Any interest that I had in MLB was killed in their last strike and while my love of the NFL runs deep, there’s only so much jerking around a fan should have to take.
everybody loses
with a strike.
The owners will have to cave, since they have such an obvious advantage here.
It may go to the end, but I see the owners caving before the players.
Mount Cody in round 1
How do you figure?
everybody loses
with a strike.
The owners will have to cave, since they have such an obvious advantage here.
It may go to the end, but I see the owners caving before the players.
I’m not following, why would they cave with an obvious advantage? I only cave when I’m at an extreme disadvantage…
What scares me is that, much like the Dunta Robinson standoff last summer, both sides think that they have strong positions and as a result, are inflexible. That is a recipe for DISASTER.

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