Then And Now: BRB On The Trade That Brought Matt Schaub To Houston
by Tim on Feb 15, 2010 1:29 PM CST
in News
91 comments
In the Comments to this post, WhiskeyR suggested a series of entries taking a look at some of the monumental moves made during the Smithiak Era. One of his specific requests was that we take a look at what we thought of the trade for Matt Schaub back when it happened. Thus, I give you this piece of classic BRB from March 21, 2007, aptly titled "Thoughts on the Schaub Deal."
In hindsight, I find my lack of faith disturbing, albeit wholly justified. I was still raw from the Charley Casserly Era. I was still broken from having witnessed five (5) years of David Carr under center. I was a man of little faith.
Now? Methinks the trade worked out just fine for your Houston Texans. The Texans acquired a franchise QB (and eventually Amobi Okoye, via the flip of first-round picks with the Falcons) for what ended up being Jamaal Anderson, Justin Blalock, and Sam Baker. If Smithiak could do the same deal again today, they'd do it in a heartbeat, whereas I'm guessing the Falcons would not (though Matt Ryan's arrival in Atlanta a year after the Schaub deal makes the pill much, much easier to swallow than it would've been...remember, the Michael Vick fiasco began in earnest shortly after Schaub left Atlanta).
What were your thoughts when you first heard the details of what the Texans gave up to acquire Matt Schaub? And now, having seen what you've seen from The Schaub, what are your thoughts on it today?
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Ecstatic.
Not because I was all that high on Schaub, but mostly because I would have given up every second round pick from then until the end of the world in 2012 to ensure that David Carr was run out of town.
Also, slight disappointment that Rosenfels wouldn’t get a chance to compete for the starting gig.
That sums it up here too.
I was also a little grumpy with the extra second round pick.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 15, 2010 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
The extra second bugged me a little
but, in general, Carr being gone was like an extra Christmas that year. My bigger concern was that, by swapping firsts, we’d miss Okoye. Once we drafted him, I was 100% ok with the deal.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
Wasn't around for those previous discussions
but my whole though was anyone could be better than David Carr.
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
Ecstatic
I was happy that Kubiak had realized that Carr was not the answer and having watched Schaub put up 3 TDs on the Pats when filling in for Vick was pretty happy with the guy they picked to take up the reins.
OH OH OH..... i remember
this was the draft that made me pissed. we missed out on adrian peterson and ended up with okoye.
but i was really down on schaub but just wanted a change from mighty mittens.
i think it worked out better than we would have thought, and we are LUCKY to have him here
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
I thought it was a good move for the Texans
And terrible decision by the Falcons to trade him… I didn’t know anything about the dog fighting thing, but I did know the fan base in Atlanta was split on who should be starting, there were quite a few who thought Schaub should’ve been starting over Vick. Then the cup with hidden compartment thing happened at the airport and I thought they should hold on to Schaub just in case that turned out to be a big deal.., this was right about the time the NFL started cracking down on off the field crap so I wasn’t sure how that situation would play out, little did I know he’d be going to prison for something entirely different.
At the time though Schaub was seen by most as one of the top backups in the NFL, and when he was forced into the starting lineup because of injury and nearly beat the Patriots, it opened alot of eyes. I know the Jets, Vikings, and Bucs were seriously interested in trading for him as well, and the Falcons were insisting that they’d accept nothing short of a 1st and 3rd for him… With that in mind, I didn’t think 2 2nds and 1st round swap was a bad deal considering the asking price and interest from other teams..
There was a little bit of uncertainty of course because he’d been a backup his entire career, but unlike Kolb, Schaub made a pretty good showing everytime he stepped on the field rather than have a few good games and few really bad games… He didn’t have alot of playing time to judge on, but he was consistent in the little time he was on the field. Plus i’d watched him in college and knew he could step into Houston’s offense, which at the time was a dink and dunk type west coast offense, and be about as accurate on those short/medium range passes as you could ask of a QB.
Hey....quick question....
do you guys run a 4-3 or a 3-4 defense down there?
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
4-3
But more of an old school tampa style 4-3 rather than the traditional, meaning it’s built around versatility more so than defined roles by alignment.
like cover 2 i assume?
aight man, i appreciate that.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
LOL...
i do not wish that on anybody.
and trust me, i know you won’t go for this either…but i was defending the fact that Ryans is worth a 1st round pick should we chose to go after him.
He’s young, a true MIKE, Droy, 2 time pro bowler, and even has experience playing in a cover 2 scheme.
I really don’t know what is not to like about that kid…again, i know your team will never let that happen, but someone tried to tell me that Demeco was not worth a 1st round pick and i thought that was insane.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Yea he for sure is worth a 1st
If you draft a MLB in the 1st and he gives you the kind of production Ryans has, you’d be ecstatic, and he’s still plenty young so giving up a 1st for him would be well worth it and more of a “sure thing” than anything you get in the draft because you’ve already seen him play in the NFL so know what you’re getting.
If someone were to sign Ryans and had to give us a 1st and 3rd thogh, even though i’d rather it not happen, I think we’d be ok as Diles can play MLB and we could use one of our 1st round picks on Weatherspoon to play WLB. We wouldn’t be totally destroyed if that were to happen, but we’re much better off with Ryans where he is now.
hold up....
it would be worth a 1st and 3rd?
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Yeah...
that’s the highest RFA tender, so I can’t think of a reason we wouldn’t slap him with it.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
yeah, i don't see why you wouldn't either...
oh well, it’s alwasy nice to dream…i knew he was worth at least a 1st though…
especially considerign the giants dont’ have a MIKE
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
McClains is the guy!!!
i don’t see him being there at 15. Spikes on the other hand can drop big time….late first or early 2nd IMO.
If Spikes is there at 15 than i take him, but i’m really liking Earl Thomas…who could be there at 15.
I only take Spikes in the 2nd….
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
made a mistake...
I meant that if McClain is there i take him a 15 (not spikes).
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
I'm all for taking C.C. Brown back
As long as you include a 1st round pick as compensation for taking him off your hands & take Chris Brown & John Busing off our hands. I don’t really like C.C., but he still has to be better than Busing.
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Feb 17, 2010 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yea basically
Our MLB drops back in coverage more times than not, where in traditional 4-3 defenses they’re either spying or crashing the line with OLBs being your coverage LBs.
We’re not totally that style though, our defensive line is kind of a hybrid between the two. Instead of being undersized and speed centric, we’ve bulked up and have a much better front against the run than typical “tampa 2” defenses have, but also a little bit less pressure on the pocket with the front 4.
It’s similar in ways, but it looks like Bush is trying to merge the two schemes a bit to get the best of both worlds so to speak. Maybe he’s just having a hard time deciding on an identity for his defense, i’m not sure. But hopefully it continues to progress as it did as this season wore on.
appreciate that man...
what’s ur take on Demeco Ryans? is that kid really worth all the hype? being that you watch the team every day and i can’t remember the last time i watched a Houston game.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Short answer
DeMeco is a great tackler who moves sideline to sideline very well. Good instincts and easily on the Lewis/Willis level as far as that goes.
He’s not great in pass coverage. The Texans D as a whole isn’t, but Ryans just wasn’t great dropping back.
That's not to say he's bad in pass coverage...
but I’d love to see him blitzed more as opposed to running with TEs.
I did not know that...
but i understand the fact that he would be used a lot in coverage especially in a 4-3….even w/out the cover 2 schemes. I’ve watched Antonio Pierce get beat in coverage consistently for the past 2 years. I’m sure Ryans is an upgrade but i don’t see you guys letting that happen.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Yeah
He’s not bad, but I mean…don’t expect any INTs or anything. There are times where he gets beat (by the same play, multiple times….damn you Vernon Davis), but he isn’t Antonio Pierce.
we don't need any INT's...
just a sure handed tackler w/ speed and who can stop the run and blitz the QB when asked to.
"If you don't know what you're doing... just rush the quarterback" - LT
Ryans can do all that stuff
But he’s not the best blitzer, imo. He can stop the run, shed blockers and make tackles. He’s great laterally, but not so much going north-south.
He’s still the man, though.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 16, 2010 2:46 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with TexansDC
The reason we drafted him early in the 2nd round is he fits the mold of the kind of MLB we need. He’s undersized but his agility and speed is needed as we ask our MLB to drop back into coverage alot. Unfortunately he’s also correct that Ryans hasn’t improved in coverage as well as the Texans hoped he would, but he’s not a liability in coverage he just doesn’t do you many favors back there.
The biggest thing he brings to the table is the ability to stay in front of the play “side line to sideline” even when he does give up a reception underneath. That and he has really good instincts and feel for where the play is going.
I'd love to see Bush get creative with blitzes.
Switching Ryans and Cushing would be great if Ryans was coming off the edge. dreams of a pass rush
Yea
But as I said this has so far been more of a tampa-styled defense than any other, which is by nature vanilla in regards to blitzes and coverage. I can’t see them doing that honestly unless they change the defense on a base level.
Didn't Bush say he would run a more aggressive defense?
I’m not asking for a Philly blitzkrieg, but it’d be nice to see some zone blitzes or CB blitzes. I mean, we got a taste with the Pollard Blitz down the stretch, but just the occasional unpredictable blitz would be nice.
TexansDC we are going to run
Zone as much as possible next year, i mean it worked for us every third down this year right>????
If that's true...
I am gonna make sure to double the amount of beer in the house on Sundays.
by TexansDC on Feb 15, 2010 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I love it when I am goo'd
plus my gf misses the days when i would coke bang her… she blames the Texans getting rid of Carr as my “Road to Recovery.”
DISCLAIMER: this post contains illegal drug use and sexual acts with a consenting adult. The acts involved are fiction and any relation to actual acts of depravity are not meant to be taken in anyway to be true
by Taco Joe on Feb 16, 2010 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He did
And we blitzed way more last season than we have in past years.., but the style of defense you play kind of determines what blitzes you can run.
I think we could possibly blitz Ryans more if we had a solid cover guy at WLB, like a Weatherspoon, we’d get burned badly if we asked diles and cushing to cover underneath consistently alone. I don’t know, i’m far from a wiz at that stuff, you just don’t see MLBs in tampa style 4-3s blitzing often because they’re usually the best LB you have in coverage and you need him there.
I think it’s possible to do so in the future, but not without changing how the defense is structured I fear.
Improving the coverage against TEs would do wonders for the defense
Seeing as we were in the bottom 5 in the league against it. I’d be all for finding a WLB who could cover.
WLB don't cover tight ends usually
As where the tight in lines up determines the “strong side”.. The WLB in most “tampa 2” based schemes will be playing zone up to about 10 yards past the line of scrimmage on his 1/2 of the field with the SLB doing the same on the other side of the field, the MLB usually drops back a bit further and covers the middle of the field. The zone can be exploited by passing in the seams between zone defenders, same as any zone defense really.
Usually on blitzes you’re either going to run a 1 deep zone-man, or 3 deep zone with SS taking over for the MLB in the underneath middle and the two remaining LBs, assuming you’re only blitzing 1 LB covering the short outside zone… In other words if you’re blitzing you’re SoL if you don’t get pressure on the QB and even more so if you have a weak secondary.
Not sure on that of course as i’m no expert, but that’s my understanding at least…
If you're sending multiple blizters
You’re pretty much forced to play straight man to man, which scares the piss out of me with the shape our secondary is in currently.
Blitzing is the high risk/high reward
Can you get to the QB before he finds an open man?
I think we could use it more effectively. The thing that runs through my mind is Reggie Wayne’s comparison of Baltimore and Houston. “You know where Houston is coming from, but you don’t know with Baltimore.” Even if he doesn’t call blitzes, Bush needs to do a better job of mixing up his defensive calls. A predictable defense puts the entire defense at a disadvantage.
That's the biggest problem with the "tapa 2"
And all schemes based on it, it doesn’t really disguise anything. It’s what you see is what you get, so it’s on the defensive players to just line up and do their jobs so well that it doesn’t matter whether the offense sees it coming or not.
I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it just is what it is. It happens to be the defense that we run now, unless we hire a new DC with a totally diff background, I don’t see us changing away from it but so much.
Frank Bush will never let that happen.
He won’t even put ketchup on his hot dogs.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 15, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I love the hatred for Brady Quinn.
When you nail on talent, the deal looks great.
Atlanta put too much faith in Vick. You can’t fault them for it as he had the big contract, sold tickets/merch, and did lead them to the playoffs.
Overall, great deal for Houston and Atlanta recovered.
Call me crazy
But I’d trade demeco for a first all day every day
by AllenOU on Feb 15, 2010 3:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I love DeMeco
but I think I take that deal 80% of the time.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
Why?
Do you really think you can find a better starter with that pick? You’d be trading a known commodity entering for a complete gamble.
1st and 3rd? Maybe. But the draft is a crap-shoot. I’d keep the 25 year-old pro-bowler and defensive leader.
Sign someone else
Free agent wise. Use the pick on a stud RB
MLB isn’t to hard to find
by AllenOU on Feb 15, 2010 4:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You could put Bo Jackson or Barry Sanders in the backfield...
They’re not going anywhere when Ragdoll and Studdard aren’t doing crap on the inside.
Most people think RB isn't too hard to find.
But I digress. DeMeco is everything you’d hope for in a first-round pick (at 33rd overall, he was more or less a first-rounder). This has nothing to do with him in particular though; it’s just that any time you hit on a draft pick, you should breath a sigh of relief. So many of those guys flop.
And for every stud you find like Brian Cushing, you wind up with two Duane Browns or Amobi Okoyes. The gamble just makes it not worthwhile, in my opinion. I’d rather get the best years out of DeMeco than sit through another three years of learning curve with whoever the draft pick turns out to be.
"And for every stud you find like Brian Cushing, you wind up with 2 Duane Browns or Amobi Okoyes"
Unless your Baltimore and can find good 1st rounders 9 out of 10 times.
I agree with this
It’d be one thing if it was a 1st AND a 3rd.
But Ryans is going to be 26 next year. It’s not like he shouldn’t have more good years ahead of him.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 15, 2010 6:52 PM CST up reply actions
wait.....who's Matt schaub?
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
On the cereal note though,
I didn’t know much about Schaub in 07, I just knew anyone other than Carr was something i wanted. the second second rounder i think was a little too much, but then again i dont know what the other teams were offering…
Now i look back I am happier than a pedo on a school playground. Schaub has brought our team a decent pass attack, and someone who maintains decent composer on the field. If he can work on the INTs next year, he will be Houston’s best QB since Warren Moon!!!
by Taco Joe on Feb 15, 2010 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Mighty Mittens !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If there is a lockout next year I vote carr and chris brown as our replacement team captains.
by AllenOU on Feb 15, 2010 3:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
They'll learn to duck and cover
Like 50’s schoolchildren.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
They will become world-class
Male models.
Damn you
Now you’ve made it sound like a good thing.
I mean, I’ve been told I’m an awesome “Before” man. OTOH, they use MDC to make me look tall.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Just stand on a box of mittens...
by AllenOU on Feb 15, 2010 4:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I kind of feel bad for the guy
I mean he has spent so much time whishing he was back in the womb that it has given him an Oedipus complex. How can you find a lady when you spend so much time wanting to be back with mommy?
The most interesting thing about that post
To me was how awful it was to be a Texans fan then. We’ve come a long way, Chris Brown or no Chris Brown. Kudos to Smithiak for that.
This happened back when I still looked to the chron for most of my Texans news
I remember people on Pancakes’ blog calling for us to pick up Plummer.
I remember thinking Schaub had a lot of potential and that even in his first few games he was a huge upgrade over Carr. I remember one of his touchdowns to Dre in the Carolina game, where he stepped up in the pocket and hit Dre while taking a big hit himself. Carr never would have done that. From that day forward, I never could get why people complained about Schaub.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 16, 2010 3:10 AM CST reply actions
that Carolina TD...
you speak of, is the moment when I thought,“holy shit, we may have a real QB” David Carr was really excruciating to watch I just didn’t realize it until that moment.
GO TEXANS!!!!
Our time will come...
the beauty...
is carr got to watch it happen right in front of his non-football playin’ face:)
GO TEXANS!!!!
Our time will come...
And this.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 16, 2010 7:16 AM CST up reply actions
This.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 16, 2010 7:16 AM CST up reply actions
Yes I agree that Carr sucks giant monkey balls, but you can’t say he would never have stepped up in the pocket and taken a big hit. While he is a horrid football player, I do feel for him just a little bit on the fact his first season he got pounded into the ground like no one has before or since. And in his few year here, yes towards the end he was very gun shy and just took sacks that were his own fault, he was abused more than any other player in the NFL. After that much of a beating, I really dont expect someone to jump up and step up in the pocket to take a hit for my team.
I do remember one hs freshman game, we had a huge 330 freshman playing NT. Somehow he got in the backfield and managed to put a hit on the QB. He was in the air as the QB was throwing the ball. The next play we did a corner blitz and the QB said hell no and just threw it away when the CB was 5 yards from him. So I can understand it.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
Blasphemy!!!
Did you just defend Mittens???? BANNED! The wilderness of Wyoming is affecting your brain.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
I never said Carr wouldn't have taken a hit
He took tons. But I don’t ever recall Carr hanging in the pocket, being in synch with his wr enough to know that he was going to break his route off, and then throw a dart for six while getting drilled.
And as far as Carr having a crappy o-line, recall that Schaub took about half as many sacks as Carr with essentially the same o-line.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 16, 2010 10:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
if i was a lineman
i wouldnt be motivated to block for mittens
it would be more fun to see how many times he can get “pollarded” instead
thats my new term. getting the shit knocked out of you = pollarded
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
I think your definition is a bit off
Pollarded – getting the piss knocked out of you; suffering instantaneous ACL tears due to being in close proximity to Bernard Pollard
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Feb 17, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I can indeed say that.
Schaub takes a quarter of the sacks, but ten times amount of crushing hits. When you hang around and wait for your receiver to get open, then step into the throw in the face of a pass-rush; that’s pain. When you go fetal any time a D-lineman gets within five feet of you? Well, then they just have to touch you down for the sack.
by Nashmeister on Feb 16, 2010 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Doesn't Seyton Manning do this too?
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Feb 17, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
He does it every time.
Fivehead = Huge Pussy
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Vince Young - Suicide Doors
Yeah, but it's not exactly very often that lineman actually get to him
Because unlike Zoolander, he actually knows how to move in the pocket.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 17, 2010 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Initially I thought we were overpaying for Shaub
At the time even though he was a highly regarded backup (some said the highest ranked backup at that time in the NFL), to me he was essentially an unproven commodity. As usual, Smithiak proved to be much smarter than me. This year Schaub had one of the finest years in NFL history, and even showed the kind of toughness and durability that championship caliber QB’s need. I know that after his 1st 2 seasons I was very concerned that he may be too fragile; not anymore. I wish that he was a slightly better runner, but hey, no one is perfect. He is definitely worth the 2 picks we gave up.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Feb 16, 2010 3:13 PM CST reply actions
I'm an idiot but.
I was still kind of a Carr fan. Also, I wanted Brady Quinn at #1 in ’06, and let Carr finish his contract. See title.
by TSSaloic on Feb 16, 2010 11:36 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Takes big time balls to admit and Carr and Quinn love.
Although I liked Quinn too, coming out of school.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Vince Young - Suicide Doors
gotta rec that
Self honesty is good.
See also: bfd hates the Cushing pick.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Feb 18, 2010 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
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