Who, Oh Who, To Franchise?
by Mike Kerns on Feb 22, 2010 3:00 PM CST
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PrintNow that the madness in Houston that was the NBA trading deadline is over, we get to look forward to the next deadline. This would be the tag deadline in the NFL. Teams have until this Thursday to announce players that will be franchise-tagged. That will be followed by numerous media reports of whining from NFL players about how they feel "disrespected" and upset that they have to play a year at top 5 money. Which will then be followed by holdouts and a war of words in the newspapers. Par for the course, I guess.
It got me to thinking about who Houston is going to franchise this season, if anyone. I think it is a given that someone will be getting the tag. John McClain says he is pretty sure that it isn't going to be everyone's favorite team player, Dunta Robinson. Honestly, at around $12 million for another franchised year of Dunta, you have to think a first-round corner in this year's draft couldn't hurt.
I think the only logical choice would have to be tight end Owen Daniels. The thing is that he is already whining about his restricted free agent status. How do you think he would react to a franchise tag? If he does get tagged, I think the universe may implode from Daniels' white hot rage. But coming back from the injury that ended his season last year, I am pretty sure the team wouldn't even consider locking him up long term until they see how he plays when he's close to 100% healed from the surgery.
I see some kind of deal getting done with DeMeco Ryans. Is there a team crazy enough (cough, Jerry Jones, cough) to make him an offer, thus surrendering a first and third round draft pick for him? Possibly. But I see the Texans' brass either matching or working out a deal before it even gets to that point. But, I may just be feeling optimistic with Houston management after seeing what Rockets GM Daryl Morey did to New York last week.
So, what do you say guys? Who should/will be tagged?
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Comments
People are forgetting the Transition tags that can be used
Transition both Dunta and Chester Pitts. At worst? They get a 1 year salary or we decline to match their offers. At best? Some team offers a reasonable deal and we match it. It at least gives us an option.
If OD doesn’t wanna put on the big boy pants (as someone said), I know Cincinnati is linked to drafting Gresham in round 1. Why not offer a Pro Bowl TE for a 2nd and another pick (maybe a 5th or a conditional 2011 pick)?
DeMeco? Give him a good deal already! Pollard? Same thing!
Uncapped year changes things
Normally it is 1 franchise or 1 transition tag, but it’ll be 1 franchise and 2 transitions at a team’s disposal.
link?
cuz I think what dk240 says below is right.
1 f-tag and 1 t-tag this year.
Mount Cody in round 1
Ninersnation did a great piece on the tags and what they mean here.
I’ll copy and paste the important part:
There are two types of tags, the franchise tag and the transition tag. Normally teams have two that they can use in any given year. In an uncapped year teams will have three—1 franchise, and 2 transition. Since there has been no agreement on a CBA and the league and the players union has just over a month to come to an agreement it’s looking likely that there will be no salary cap in 2010.
You get one franchise AND one transition tag this year due to the uncapped year. The transition is slightly less money and significantly less protection. Players will probably only get it if another player on their team is given the franchise tag.
It's 2 transitions
Dunta, regardless of franchise or transition tag, will get a 120% pay increase if he returns under either tag ($12 million).
The transition gives either a 120% increase or the top 10 salaries averaged – whichever is greater. However, there’s no compensation if the tagging team declines to match the offer a player gets from another team.
If they don't franchise anyone
but get DeMeco a new contract, then I think they will be okay.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Why would they franchise Owen Daniels when for a lot less money and almost the same protection, they can give him the highest franchise tender (1st and 3rd pick instead of 2X1st rd, neither of which anybody is going to give up)?
If they don’t franchise Dunta, they won’t franchise anyone. They can use restricted free agent tenders on everyone good.
Re: Franchising
I think you’re right. Instead of franchising OD, they can simply tender him at the highest level. When it comes down to it, with the uncapped year, I believe the only question is whether the Texans would franchise Dunta.
I vote no.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Feb 22, 2010 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The don't need to franchise OD or DeMeco
Given that a miracle isn’t going to happen before March 5, They are RFA’s. We’d get compensation anyway, if an only if another team comes looking.
You only need the tags for players coming off contract and have six or more years experience. ie Dunta.
by distant_texans_fan on Feb 22, 2010 3:32 PM CST reply actions
Dunta's $9.957 salary divided by his 1002 snaps in 2009 = $9,937.13 per play
by TexansDC on Feb 22, 2010 3:50 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I must say
I do like the Battle Red jersey on the white pants more than the all-red uniform.
by TexansDC on Feb 22, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed.
I was mocked on the MNF game a couple of years back for the Ketchup bottle uniforms.
by distant_texans_fan on Feb 22, 2010 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
That was an awesome game
One of may favorites. And I have no problem with the ketchup bottles.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 23, 2010 5:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Blasphemy
The ketchup bottles are so much better.
by cubic on Feb 23, 2010 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
especially when you win with them...
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Feb 23, 2010 8:30 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I Think
Dunta was tagged with the STFU tag. He’s been awful quiet.
by kozanack on Feb 22, 2010 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Interesting theory
I would counter by proposing the alternate FOAD tag.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
by Shake on Feb 23, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I have to agree with the above posts
There’s really no reason to franchise, or even transition tag anyone on the team besides Dunta. I personally think they should consider tagging Robinson unless they have plans for the CB position that no one else knows about.
Really we don’t need to offer the max lvl qualifying offer to daniels, even with the lowest lvl offer we’d get back a 3rd if another team gives him an offer we don’t accept. If you would be happy with a 3rd round pick for Daniels as alot of people have been saying, he’d get way more interest from other teams if we offered him the minimum.
If we wanted to use him as trade bait, use the max or medium offer and try to sell Daniels and another team on a sign and trade.
Ryans I think we should give max offer to, as that’s pretty much our only shot of not having a bidding war on him, with Ryans getting an offer tough for us to swallow.
I dont think we can offer OD the minimum since we had him at the max level last year. So it is either offer him the max again, f-tag him (retarded), t-tag him (again retarded), or work out a long term deal.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
I think tendering him at a lower level, if even possible, isn’t a good idea. We aren’t talking about tons of money here relative to the payroll (relative to my salary, yes)…we are talking about the difference between a couple million and a few million. Might as well tender him at the highest level and make sure you can keep him. A 3rd round pick, he’d get snapped up. We do want to keep him rather than get just a 3rd round pick.
In addition, players of that caliber really just aren’t tendered at those low levels. Those 3rd round pick tenders are for good, but not great fullbacks and 3rd wide receivers and backup defensive linemen, not starting pass catchers who lead the league in production at their position for half a year before an injury.
From my O.D. post
For restricted free agents, a team may tender an offer at a predetermined level. The player is free to negotiate with any other teams, but any team signing him to a contract owes specific compensation in the form of draft picks with the rounds for those picks tied to the level of the tender offer.
For 2009, the levels and corresponding picks were $1.01M (right of first refusal), higher of $1.01M or 110% of player’s 2009 salary (right of first refusal and draft pick from same round where player was originally drafted), higher of $1.545M or 110% of player’s 2009 salary (r.f.r. and second-round pick), higher of $2.198M or 110% (r.f.r. and first-round pick), higher of $2.792 or 110% (r.f.r. and first- and third-round picks). In Daniels’ case, the options would pretty much be limited to the first or last level as the dollar amounts for each would always be the 110% figure.
No way we only offer him $1.01M, so if he’s tendered, he’s almost certainly getting the highest one.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
Why would you franchise tag someone who is under your control for the next two years? That assumes no CBA gets done in the next 12 or so days. Just tender him as the max and call it good for now. Then start working on a long term contract.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
I think what Jordann means
is that we need to do everything possible to keep Ryans. Yes, we could apply the max tender, but I’d work out a long term deal now. Otherwise, we would have to escalate our offer if anyone else offers him a deal. Plus, getting it done early would benefit from having to match or come close to the ridiculous deal that Dansby is going for. I heard someone mention that he may get as much as 30 mil guaranteed. Ryans has to be signed before free agency starts.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 22, 2010 4:23 PM CST up reply actions
You're right
Because I think he’ll go for more next year and more th year after that. We’re just going to have to suck it up for Demeco, especially if there’s no cap.
I meant Dansby
but I failed to make that clear. The Cards are letting him go because he wants $30M guaranteed.
I want to sign Meco long term, but I cringe at the numbers.
Mount Cody in round 1
OD is an RFA
Franchise tags are for UFAs. Only cunta or Walters could be franchised.
And I think you slap the 1st and 3rd tender on OD, and lock up demeco.
No one will take OD for that steep price.
by AllenOU on Feb 22, 2010 4:16 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I figured this out this morning.
It makes sense actually.
Better for us as well
by AllenOU on Feb 22, 2010 4:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That Kerns was an idiot?
I learned that a long time ago.
(I keed Kerns, this is my payback for you flooding my twitter feed with Braves crap the last 2 days)
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 22, 2010 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think you're right.
Transition tag Dunta and Pitts. Don’t even worry about the franchise tag. However, what about Kevin Walter? I personally would like him back, but he can make money on the free agency market.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 22, 2010 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
He didn't have the greatest year last year...
He’s kinda been banged up. I’d like him back, but I wouldn’t want to chance getting stuck paying the transition tag salary ($8.575 million) if no one else takes him.
Dang.
I didn’t know it would be that much money for him on a transition tag. Obviously, Jones did well in his spot. I like that Walter brings reliable hands and great blocking from a WR. I guess the hope then would be to sign him cheap. I think Pitts would be smart to transition tag because the O-line needs help, depth, quality, you name it. If we have an extra tag then for either Dunta or Walter, does Dunta receive it because the bigger need at CB?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 22, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions
Can only franchise dunta
Since he is unrestricted. He’s gone. Someone will overpay. The free agents out there are not exactly world beaters. More like little soft bunnies
by AllenOU on Feb 22, 2010 4:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You just transition both Pitts and Robinson
The Texans then can match any offer either player receives if the price is right. If not, then the player leaves.
It’s a lot better then just letting them stay UFA and trying to offer a contract.
Heck, you can always franchise and trade someone. Why not franchise Dunta then trade him for a draft pick?
Anyone saying let him walk
Doesnt get that he could still provide some use to us…either at the right price or in exchange for a draft pick.
What would a team give up for Dunta though?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 22, 2010 4:56 PM CST up reply actions
Starting NFL CB...
And yes, people still tout him as a starter…..you can’t tell me we couldn’t turn to the Rams, Bucs, Browns, Lions and say get a 3rd or 4th round pick for a starter?
I'm not saying that we couldn't get something for him.
I guess the better question was who would be interested in Dunta, which you answered. I can see people having interest in him, especially when you are looking at price like a third round pick for a starter. Now, it just needs to happen…
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 22, 2010 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
Rick Smith reads BRB...
No doubt he’s already planning it.
He can see it now: Show Dunta he’s only worth a mid-round pick AND ship him off to teams who won’t win for a while. That’s how Rick gets his revenge.
by TexansDC on Feb 22, 2010 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
but if we t-tagged him
couldn’t they just make him an offer we wouldn’t match, and save the draft pick?
I would think the t-tag would reduce the trade value, but increase the money coming to Dunta.
Mount Cody in round 1
Up above, I said f-tag him and trade him to a bottom-feeder
If we t-tag then we really have the right to match his offer. Either way, a tag nets Dunta $12 million dollars (barring a contract offer).
Maybe I'm missing something
But why would someone trade for Dunta and that salary? They’d want a new deal with him too, and we’ve seen how flexible he is.
As we saw last season with Cassel and the Patriots
A player can be franchised, traded, and get a new contract (nullifying the franchised salary).
Granted, they'd have to have a deal worked out with Dunta
However, it’s not impossible to do if we knew who was targeting him initially.
There's one thing people are failing to see here
if we t-tagged him, Dunta will be praying nobody makes an offer for him so he can make $12M next season, and if the Texans are operating under some sort of “budget”, wouldn’t that be something of a budget killer? Offer him a deal, & if he doesn’t like it, let him walk
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Feb 23, 2010 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
Except
Players typically like longer contracts with guaranteed money. I doubt that Dunta would be praying not to get a secure, long-term offer.
his desire for a long term contract before last year
reportedly was $23M, and nobody really knows if that was ever offered or turned down.
A tag this year would net him $22M+ over the last two years, and whatever deal he gets after 2010 is a bonus.
He’s not far off. But it really doesn’t matter what he wants, right now the ball is in Smith’s court.
Smith will decide if he stays or goes.
Mount Cody in round 1
Right
He has to get a new deal. I can see people wanting to pay him, but not pay him and lose a draft choice. Hopefully I’m wrong and some other team is irresponsible. Like, second round pick irresponsible.
Found this..
The trick is to find the team that’s willing to sign Robinson to a long term deal and part with a draft choice. It could be a second rounder or a third. But at least it would be something more than nothing.
In this scenario, after Robinson is tagged, the Texans could give Team B permission to negotiate the terms of a new contract with Robinson which would later be traded to Team B for the draft pick.
That sounds like a win-win, but as Paul Kuharsky of ESPN pointed out to me earlier today, the risk of Option 3A is that Robinson can sign his franchise tender at any time – and it’s guaranteed.
That means that if Team B is a destination that doesn’t suit Robinson, like say a Detroit or Cleveland, then Robinson could counter and say ‘screw it, I’ll play in Houston again this year,’ which alleviates a major problem at corner but also leaves McNair holding the bag with a ‘less than happy’ player – one that’s good but not great – making $12 million guaranteed in 2010.
So if he doesn’t want to play for, lets just say, the Rams, then he just signs the franchise tender and he’s still in H-town.
by HoustonTransplant on Feb 23, 2010 2:39 AM CST up reply actions
before the trade deadline
we can trade anybody we have under contract, right? Does that exclude tenders?
He HAS to play for us, and we’re not allowed to trade him under any circumstances if he signs??
If thats true, at least we’ll know he’ll be in camp, right?
Mount Cody in round 1
If we could get the Lions or Rams third-rounder for Dunta
I would consider drinking Zima. That’s how happy I would be.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 23, 2010 5:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This would be awesome!
getting an early third-rounder for Dunta would be nice, too.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I think
They actually stopped making Zima. It’s Mikes Hard Lemonade or bust now. I’d take a third rounder for Dunta no questions asked, I just don’t see why he’d be eager to sign a new deal with a new team at terms less onerous than those we were offering him- and he’d have to get a new deal or a team would be crazy to trade for him.
No Zima? No problem.
It’ll be Bartles & Jaymes for me then.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 23, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Zima is no more
But clear malt liquors live forever.
http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/10/20/daily15.html
“challenging malternative segment sales and declining consumer interest.”
MALTERNATIVE? BEST. WORD. EVER. After Weightspeed of course.
www.manningface.com
by nolander on Feb 23, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
The difference in the amount of posting done by Tim and by Scott could effectively be measured in malternative weightspeed.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
by MDC on Feb 24, 2010 8:22 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
early third rounder is nice
but getting any pick for a UFA would be tremendous
Mount Cody in round 1
Your correct
I meant only two that would be considered for the f tag. Chris brown gets franchised, I’m jumping off of something really high.
Would like to see pitts back in some fashion
by AllenOU on Feb 22, 2010 4:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I figured thats what you meant.
Obviously with a 53 man roster we’d have more than two UFA.
They only other one one to consider is possibly Pitts. Although, like Turk, he is older and not much use to any one else (unless a division rival picks them up to can secret knowledge)
I’d like to see K-Dub back next year.
by distant_texans_fan on Feb 22, 2010 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I saw owen today!
I saw owen daniels at the jay-z concert tonight. Ive met him before at a rockets game, I asked if he remembered me he said he did but I dont know about that haha anywayyys
I was like I really hope they dont franchise you man, he looked at me grimly and said ya me too me too man.
So i think he knows he will as well
cant be franchised
but he will be tendered the 3.1 mill for one year with the texans getting 1st and 3rd if someone were to take him.
i cant give the guy a 30 mil contract with 10 guaranteed after that injury. and if he thinks he is getting it then he was probably on the oregon football team at some point
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
DeMeco
On a separate note, I think we should lock onto DeMeco with the threat of a high tender as a restricted free agent, but really should just get a long term deal done with him.
As far as OD, if he wants Kellen Winslow money, we should milk those RFA tenders for as long as we can, franchise him once, and then let him walk or trade him away…just because Tampa Bay way overpaid for a mediocre tight end doesn’t mean we should follow that mistake. If he can find someone who wants to give him that crazy money, let him walk.
Franchise Dunta
As much as most fans hate Dunta, we need him on the team next season and it wont hurt us to franchise him. Because there is no cap, the $12 mil won’t count against us in the salary cap area. Dunta was at times the best CB last season and improved as the season wore on. We have to remember that he was coming off of a major injury and his sitting out of training camp made him a step slower than everyone at the beginning of the season. If we dont keep Dunta he will probably be the best FA CB and no rookie we bring in will be as good a Dunta will be. He is the best option we have for next year at CB and if he sucks he will be off our payroll when a salary cap comes back.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
I’m pretty sure we can find better players to spend that 12 million on like say leigh bodden.
www.manningface.com
by nolander on Feb 23, 2010 10:22 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Someone else on the Bodden train.
I approve.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
I think anyone can be on the Bodden train after watching Dunta this season.
It’s just a matter if Bodden becomes a FA.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 24, 2010 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
Well
we have 12 million dollars we just chose to not give to Dunta calling his name
www.manningface.com
He is also #23
but I would recommend him to take a different number.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 24, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Also, can't they still place a transition tag on Bodden?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 24, 2010 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
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