2009 in Review: The Secondary
Hit the jump if you're familiar with the series because the next couple of lines are review.
I'm going to look at every player who played more than 100 snaps for the Texans from a number of different angles. I'll give their regular statistics from this year and last year. Similarly, I will bring in Pro Football Focus and Football Outsiders numbers for the last two years and compare them. A glossary of FO terms can be found here, and Pro Football Focus operates on a strict +/- system. Finally, I'll give my impressions on each of them as someone who has spent probably 100 hours each year watching the game tapes and filling in charting numbers for FO. For players with less than 100 snaps, I'll just give a brief summary. From this, I hope to give a balanced reading of each player's ability and relative value to the team.
There's not much to glean from the stats versus the number one and two wide receivers. All of the Texans cornerbacks seem to have played roughly below average the last two seasons--at least on the surface. The Texans improved drastically on passes in three-wide sets, which I think can be explained by the phrase "not employing DeMarcus Faggins". Tight ends were a major problem. Eugene Wilson not playing some of the season and DeMeco Ryans trying to cover Vernon Davis on go-routes would rank among my main culprits for that one. The one thing Frank Bush deserves an awful lot of credit for this year was that everyone up front sniffed out screens impeccably. In fact, the only screens that really were successful against the Texans were quick hitches at Dunta Robinson. Speaking of Pay Me (P)Rick...
CORNERBACKS
Dunta Robinson
It wasn't so much that Dunta Robinson was bad this year, it's that he really could've easily been worse. I went over my concerns more in-depth in TexanDC's fanpost, but to summarize, Dunta was dead to rights by any number of wide outs beating him deep in 2009 and was extraordinarily lucky that he wasn't burnt more often than he was. Add to that a real shying away from contact, the huge pass he gave up in the second Indy game when he started crowing and preening himself while Peyton Manning quick-snapped the Texans, and the fact that he's not really all that great in the short passing game either. Mix with a side-dish of management critique on your own shoe, enough yellow nylon to weave himself another dreadlock, and missing training camp, and you've got yourself one easy-to-hate player.
Much like Anthony Weaver before him, Dunta Robinson has entered the phase of his career where he doesn't do what he's supposed to anymore. He hasn't been the same player since his injury, he looks unsure at times, and his productivity is way down. Unlike Weaver, the Texans aren't anchored to a contract where cutting him would do more harm than good to the team. Whether Rick Smith and Company can look past it all and see that Dunta isn't worth half of his salary this year is one of the crucial questions facing the Texans this offseason. If Robinson is back as number one cornerback, it's a good sign that the Texans are either satisfied with 8-8 or are basing their decision purely on reputation. I'm hoping they just let him go.
Another opinion I've already slightly stepped on earlier. Quin probably will end up at safety one of these days, but for the now, the Texans aren't really giving up too much with him on the field. Quin has terrific read-and-react instincts. Throwing the quick curl route at him was pretty fruitless. However, get his feet moving on a drag just past the line of scrimmage or a quick turn and he doesn't really have the speed to keep up. He's easily the Texans' best tackling corner, and I'd be surprised if he didn't wind up with at least a few forced turnovers next year via the fumble or interceptions.
Long-term, Quin should be a key part of the Texans either at safety or corner as long as he can avoid Fred Bennett Syndrome. I wouldn't get too caught up in moving him to safety in the near term. Lets see how he does with a full offseason under contract. Best case scenario: He gets better reads on WR moves and keeps stride with them. Worst case scenario: He's a decent safety.
FO quotes his 2008 season as "good underneath, but easy to beat deep". This season, it seemed to be almost the opposite. He gave up quickly on some of the underneath stuff, but the only way he was getting beat deep would be if the throw was absolutely perfect, like Nate Hughes' catch in the second Jacksonville game. Probably a bit of small sample size in there with this one, but possibly also some overcompensation by Reeves.
Reeves was fairly serviceable in 2008, so the idea that he was sitting most of the season in favor of Dunta is really hard to take, particularly considering the Texans had so many close losses that could've been solved with just one extra defensive stop. He's probably only a decent CB2, but that's better production than the club got out of Dunta last year. With one of the highest price tags on the team and no salary cap rules to bend through, the Texans might be better off cutting him if they find a CB1 in the draft or on the free agent market.
McCain showed solid speed in his limited field time and is probably the best zone coverage guy the Texans have. His problem going forward is that he could be too physically limited to be anything more than a cover guy. -3.1 in run defense on dime snaps is ugly, and while he might get up to the nickel role, he could be a liability versus big wideouts.
Not bad for a sixth round pick, and he probably will reprise his role next year unless the Texans have a sudden change of heart on Fred Bennett or Antuwan Molden stays healthy for a whole month. Just don't get your expectations too high for him. He reminds me an awful lot of Tim Jennings.
Fred Bennett
Most physically talented Texans cornerback? Probably Fred Bennett. If you asked me to pick one Texans CB to check Randy Moss or Reggie Wayne one-on-one, Bennett is my pick. Unfortunately, due to his lack of focus, mental mistakes, and complete inability to play a decent zone, Bennett was so deep in Frank Bush's doghouse that he actually found diagrams for elaborate blitzes.
I look at Fred Bennett and I see a player with NFL talent that could be spotted in more ideal situations than he's had here (more man-to-man) and become more productive because of it. He's probably not going to suddenly go back to what he was after everyone was declaring him the next Christ of cornerbacks after 2007, but I think there's a solid chance he winds up as a guy that bounces from team-to-team and plays a steady but unimpressive role on the edge. The Walt Harris of the 2010's. It probably won't be with the Texans.
(F*** it, I'm) Going Deep
Antwuan Molden - A rare high-round misfire by the Smithiak regime, Molden spent most of last year being hurt. When he was healthy in 2008, he didn't exactly seize playing time away from anyone either. His saving grace comes in two forms--he was terrific on special teams in 2008 and the non-starters ahead of him on the depth chart have their own warts. This is the make-or-break year for him.
Mark Parson - He showed decent coverage skills in the little preseason action I caught of him. Probably a rung higher than your average practice squad fodder. Parson looks like someone who you could do worse than, which is a decent use of your squad spot.
SAFETIES
Pollard wasn't quite as good as he looked in coverage--his interceptions generally were fluky and his zone coverage was pretty limited as well. Of course, that's not to say that he didn't have a huge impact on the defense by knocking the piss out of everyone he saw up front. He wasn't quite DeMeco Ryans good, and he can take poor angles at times, but his contain and instincts were crucial in the Texans cutting down on the amount of successful edge runs against them. He was also excellent at not biting on the play fake.
There is no denying that he changed the calculus this year, but I think he got a little too much credit for this. I'm not denying he was very good for the Texans, I just think his effect on the defense was more of a tipping point than him being a dominant force of nature. Think of the Texans defense on a seesaw: one side has Mario Williams, Brian Cushing, and DeMeco. The other side had John Busing, Dunta, and Frank Bush's zone schemes. When Busing stepped off the bad side and Pollard stepped on the good side, it tilted the Texans from a mediocre defense to a solid one. When Eugene Wilson went down and Busing stepped back on, the defense went right back to mediocrity until Dominique Barber took snaps from Busing. Just because Pollard was the one who tipped the scales doesn't mean he should be given extra credit. It could have been any solid player, is all I'm saying.
Still one year removed from being dreadful for the Chiefs, I'm loathe to hand him a long-term extension for the reasons above. I want to see last year's form repeated before I'm comfortable handing him a big deal, both due to the play for the Chiefs and the character concerns. I'd slap the second round tender on him and give him a prove-it year.
Eugene Wilson
Wilson is clearly the best cover man on the Texans, and losing him down the stretch was a exploitable problem for the Texans as they went 0-3 against their AFC South brethren while Busing tried to find a spot 50 yards downfield where he wouldn't be a problem at. Wilson played inspired football and I thought he more than justified his re-signing with his play, which is something I thought would be more of a problem this year after last year's Will Demps debacle (hey, I found a Pro Bowler just as undeserving as VY!)
On the other hand, he didn't stay healthy enough to keep Busing off the field in the first place. He also has one of the highest cap figures on the 2010 Texans at $3,705,000 and cutting him to get out of the signing bonus push might be a decent move by a proactive front office if it thinks Dominique Barber can be an answer, especially since he's now pushing 30. I expect the Texans to play it safe here after they spend their self-evaluation watching Busing highlights.
Dominique Barber
Barber showed some decent intermediate coverage skills, particularly after the staff got tired of watching Busing get destroyed on a play-to-play basis. He doesn't have the deep speed to catch up with someone running past him, and while his run defense isn't as bad as spelled out by PFF, he does go for the big hit way too much.
To me, Barber is about what Shaun Cody was to the defensive line, except younger. There are weaknesses, and he's probably not good enough to be an every week starter without being exposed. Still, a fine backup safety and someone who has a place in the NFL. He'll only be 24 next year though, so he still has some time to shake these labels. He's definitely a better fit at free safety.
John Busing
This was right up there with the ugliest seasons in Texans history. Busing couldn't cover anybody, to the point where the Texans defensive scheme often featured him dropping back into Galveston on every play. Busing also set out to turn poor run support into an art form. While other Texans made mistakes in containment, Busing set the bar, tripped over it, then watched running backs go past him without even a customary Matt Stevens flailing of the arms.
Busing is purely a special teamer. A special teamer with no value on defense as a backup is someone who doesn't often hold a job long. Ergo, expect John Busing to surface in the UFL next year if he plays at all. If he suits up again for the Texans defense, it's time to get a prescription for codeine.
(F*** it, I'm) Going Deep
Nick Ferguson - Here is my chart for Nick Ferguson last year:
Brian Russell - When people from other fanbases openly take pity on yours for signing someone, it might be a good idea to immediately release the player and pretend this never happened. The scary part? He outplayed John Busing.
Troy Nolan - Last year's 7th rounder, who went on IR during training camp. It's a rare 7th rounder who can overcome spending the whole first year hurt. Let's just say he's fighting "Lions in the Super Bowl" odds to be relevant again and leave it at that.
Bonus if you made it to the end: Would you like to see a Special Teams breakdown? I can do it, I just don't want to put the effort into it if it's just going to be a 10 comment thread that consists of "Kris Brown sucks" repeated over and over again.
3 recs |
154 comments
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Comments
Thank you, Rivers
Another fine analysis, however painful it is to hear the truth. It all sounds so hopeless and to turn it around will take several seasons. A finger in the dike doesn’t sound possible…..
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Feb 8, 2010 6:47 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Ah Rip
You are a little quick to jump to hopelessness. The only two terrible players were Dunta and Busing, and with some luck, neither of them will don a Texans jersey again.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Thanks. A half-ass effort at a special teams summary would be cool...
…and take a good chunk of the work out of it (in case I’m the only reader). I would appreciate a focused perspective on special teams play though, so your thoughts would be interesting. Thanks!
I'll be using either my whole ass or none of my ass.
But I’ll see what I can do.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Which of the cornerback
Prospects, if any, do you think would help us? I don’t think any of the impact first-rounders are within reach for us. But I think another Glover Quin might be.
Check this out
I did a FanPost looking at some Mock Drafts. The only CB that is definitely out of reach is Joe Haden of Florida, who will likely be gone in the first 15 picks. Other highly regarded CBs that will likely be in play at 20 are: Donovan Warren, Michigan; Brandon Ghee, Wake Forest; and, Perrish Cox, Oklahoma State. Patrick Robinson, Florida State seems to be moving up into the 1st round of some mock drafts. Sure, they are mock drafts, but what else do I have to go on. Well, Rivers’ analyses, yes!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
How is Patrick Robinson moving up?
He didn’t particularly seem impressive at the Senior Bowl. Ghee and Kyle Wilson seemed to jump him in a lot of places.
Did I miss something he did?
It seems to me
Each year positions of perennial need, LT, CB,DE, QB tend to be overdrafted. I realize saying someone is overdrafted makes no real logical sense considering they were drafted there, but I often feel like it happens. (See Brown, Duane). Hopefully some great CBs are around when we pick, because we need one. I thought Wilson looked good too.
I dunno about that one.
I think the NFL is pretty good at policing itself as a whole to make sure their first rounders are good prospects.
Now, their definition of good prospect might be a little murky, and a few isolated teams may overdraft pretty often (hello, Oakland!) but in general I think the bust rate has gone down quite a bit over the past 10 years.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Al Davis
Finds your lack of faith disturbing.
Jamarcus Russel
was a great Pick!!! Al Davis is sending you a subpoena and you will be sued for defamation of character..
Jamarcus
From a business perspective, it really was amazing what he accomplished.
$29M guaranteed money.
He gambled that his bust rate was high, so he held out and made the stupidest owner in the NFL pony up a huge amount up front to not have to waste the first overall pick.
His other option was to take less guaranteed and be in camp and earn some of that money by his play on the field. We now know that would not have been the wise choice.
That, my friends, is how to leverage the leverage you have.
His agent deserves a raise.
Mount Cody in round 1
Well obviously Haden would.
But since we’re not going to be lucky enough to pick him…
My like/dislikes in that 2-3 range go as follows:
Like:
Perrish Cox
Brandon Ghee
Javier Arenas
Dislike:
Patrick Robinson
Ehh on:
Kyle Wilson
Haven’t seen enough of:
Donovan Warren
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Warren’s young, but talented. I just think he’ll go to Atlanta (who has to worry about stopping Brees). I think Ghee and Wilson are better than him though, but that’s my own opinion.
It's all subjective at this point
And I wouldn’t be disappointed even if the Texans took Patrick Robinson. They have way better scouting tools than I do. To me, we are winners if they address the problem.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
they fired
Casserly.
So yes, better scouting is now possible.
Mount Cody in round 1
uh oh
People are going to be upseeeeeeeeeeeet about you not loving their man crush Kyle Wilson.
www.manningface.com
It's all part of my plan
To make more enemies with every post.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
were you in the
anti Cushing camp, or pro-Cush?
How about Bush?
just to see where I should stand on your view of Wilson.
Mount Cody in round 1
I didn't really document much about the pick in words (as far as I can find, maybe there's a comment somewhere)
I did like Clay Matthews over him, for what that’s worth, because I wanted more a pass-rusher. Considering they were both Pro Bowlers I don’t consider that much of a defeat. I probably said some bad things about Cushing too though.
In my shadow draft, I took Oher over both of them.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 15, 2010 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
I love Warren
that is all.
I always assumed "You're The Reason God Made Oklahoma" would be some sort of country music diss track. Live and learn, I guess.
by MDC on Feb 9, 2010 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
I like Cox
I had to say it. But seriously, I think if Cox is available, he should be the choice in the second round. He’s tall, fast, physical, and can tackle. However, as long as we get one of these guys in the second round (because I don’t think they’ll make it to the third) then I’ll be happy.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 9, 2010 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Something about that just doesn't sound right.....
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Feb 9, 2010 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Cox availability
is just a question of how hard you are willing to work for Cox.
DISCLAIMER: I apologize for the juvenile comment but someone had to do it!*
by Taco Joe on Feb 11, 2010 11:23 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Nice Breakdown on Fergusion(?)
especially liked the chart. Although IMHO that should have been Dunte’s chart and Nicky could have the used tea bag chart.
I'm not sure about Dunta
This year he played like a #2 CB at best, but he also missed training cap after a year of rehab from a pretty serious injury. It’s possible that with a full year to get his legs under him and another training camp/preseason he could be much more productive next season. You don’t want to give him 10 mil a year for sure, but I think after this year he knows he’s not worth that anymore… Although there’s almost sure to be a team out there willing to drastically overpay for CB, I just hope it’s not the Texans.
Quinn I think is overhyped at CB, his biggest claim to fame this year was not being absolutely horrid as a middle round rookie placed in the starting lineup at times. If you don’t consider the round he was drafted or the fact that he was a rookie and just looked at him as a CB, you’d be pretty dissappointed in his production. While it’s common for rookies to improve going into their 2nd year, Bennett taught us that doesn’t always happen to the extent we hope it will. It could be he progresses into a very good corner, but more likely I think that his ceiling is more average than good.
Maybe he can move over to safety, but that’s not a given either. Just because he has the physical tools doesn’t mean he’d make a smooth transition to a new position, it’s possible that he’s never anything more than a reserve FS if he makes the switch.
Dunta
hasn’t had a training camp the past 2 seasons. Every season, he gets better as it goes along because he plays himself into shape. A full training camp makes me think he could still be a solid #2 or a much cheaper #1 (3-5 million a year).
I was impressed with Quin.
Not even considering his round. This isn’t a Zach Diles situation. He had his struggles underneath, like I went over, but I think he was a net positive for the team.
Whose fault is it that Dunta missed training camp? You and TexansDC seem to both think he’ll bounce back with more effort. I’m skeptical. I just don’t think the speed is there anymore, and once you lose that, your effectiveness is gone.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
I would match him up against slower WRs, but, honestly, I am trying to remain positive because I think he returns.
Looking at FA CBs, the only one that’s better is Leigh Bodden – everyone else is old or coming off IR or RFA who will be retained (or offered the highest possible tender for a 1st and 3rd which we would be fools to give up unless his name was Revis). Bodden’s gonna get paid as the best CB out there. Maybe someone does the same with Dunta…to which I’ll say good riddance, but there’s a decent chance Dunta returns because we don’t have a lot of other options (unless Rick Smith can pick up an extra 2nd and walk out with Ghee/Wilson and Cox cause then I’d go nuts).
You guys just love to make me step on possible upcoming posts :P
I don’t think it matters. Because I don’t think we can get worse with any change there.
Bodden would be nice, obviously. I’m a proponent of a 2nd-3rd round corner. Reeves would be better. Dre Bly would be better. Ralph Brown would probably be better. If the Texans had an undrafted FA who they thought would be better, I’d trust them on it.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Nothing to do with Harper, but why not throw up another Tennessee fail?
by TexansDC on Feb 8, 2010 3:31 PM CST up reply actions 12 recs
Nice.
He’s got nothing on this guy though:

by Nashmeister on Feb 8, 2010 4:59 PM CST up reply actions 9 recs
When your team signs
DeMarcus Faggins, your team may have awful cornerbacks.
I'm no Nick Harper backer or anything
But after last year, I think that could be classified as a lateral move. Harper is probably worse but it’s close.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
no way man
if he returns AS A STARTER, I would agree.
If we steal him as a nickel or backup CB, I’d be ok wit dat.
Mount Cody in round 1
Speed isn't everything
Only players who soley rely on athletic ability go to pot once they lose some of their athleticism… You have a point though, it’s just not speed that’s the problem. Dunta had trouble with quickness and agility, which limits his ability to play both the short and long. Once he jumped on the short, he was vulnerable to any kind of double move by the WR whereas in previous years his ability to make up ground with his quickness getting in and out of breaks covered for his aggressiveness quite a bit. Running straight ahead, he’s probably just about as fast now than he’s ever been. Darrell Green is ancient now, and I bet he can still run a sub-4.5 40, straight line speed just doesn’t vanish over night.
I think Robinson will need to learn how to be more of a crafty corner and playing smart rather than taking risks and banking on his athleticism to cover his behind. I’m not sure he will bounce back, but I think it’s certainly possible that he does. And even if he doesn’t, as of now he’s the best cover corner we have so I don’t think we want to let him go unless we can get someone to adequately replace him or if his price is just too steep.
It’s not a matter of who’s to blame for Robinsons problems. I agree that he was his own worst enemy last year. The question is, are we a better football team without him? Unless we find a competent corner to replace him, my answer would be no. The only reason I wouldn’t bring Robinson back is if he were still asking to be paid as an elite corner, because he’s not worth that. But not considering financial implications, it’s hard to say we’d be better off without Robinson not knowing who’s going to take his place.
I don't think he's the best cover corner on the team
And I don’t even think he’s a good CB2 anymore.
But if he fits your definitions of this then I guess I can see why you want to keep him. This is a Travis Johnson situation to me. Flush the virus and things will improve because they can’t get worse.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
I don't think it's near the same thing
Robinson is well respected by his teamates and plays balls to the wall every play, while Travis was seen as lethargic on the practice field and weight room and took plays off during games. No one really cared much when Travis Johnson was traded.., i’d be willing to bet that most of the locker room would be sad to see Robinson go.
Robinson isn’t a virus. He’s a solid player and puts his body on the line for his team every week. He got into a contract dispute last offseason where he was coming off a serious injury and wanted security in his next contract while the team didn’t want to commit many years to a player they weren’t sure would return to form.
He was told that he would not be franchised, which he didn’t want because he wanted the security of a long contract, then once contract negotiations stalled the team franchised him anyway. It made sense for the team to do that, but it also makes sense that Robinson would be offended by it. He’s not a bad seed, he was just part of a contract negotiation gone bad, and reacted to it poorly.
I disagree, sir.
It doesn’t matter what the motivations are. I’m as pro-player as anyone but this wasn’t holding out for the sake of a fair new contract. As a first round pick, he’s received much more money than most of his teammates. This was sulking, pure and simple. I didn’t like how the Texans handled it either.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
His agent wouldn't be doing his job
If he wasn’t trying to secure Robinsons future in last year’s contract talks. Coming off an injury like that, it was possible he’d have a year like this one and his value would go down significantly, and then by the time he’s up for another contract his age will bring his price tag down again regardless of how well he plays from here on out.
The best thing for Robinson would have been to sign a long term contract last offseason. The best thing for the Texans was to franchise him for one year as they’ve done, now they can resign him to a deal this year for less than they would have a year ago more than likely. You can’t blame either party really, it’s part of their job to look out for themselves, it’s just about football only to fans, to players and teams it’s their livelihoods.
He got a little pissy when he was franchised because he was led to believe that wasn’t going to happen so when it did he felt like he was lied to. I know if my employer lied to me for whatever reason, i’d be plenty pist off. I don’t hold any of that stuff against him, because I could see myself getting my butt up on my shoulders over that and shooting off at the mouth too. It doesn’t put me off to find out pro-athletes are human and prone to human mistakes, probably why i’ve never been a Favre hater.
If he was actually offered the 23 million guaranteed and didn’t take it, his agent didn’t do his job.
www.manningface.com
I heard he was offered a multi-year 23 million dollar contract
But don’t remember seeing reports of it being guaranteed. Not saying it wasn’t reported, just that I don’t remember it. My guess is he was offered a long term deal with only 2-3 years guaranteed, which really means he was offered a 2-3 year contract which isn’t really long term at all. And even then, with the contracts players his level or below were getting, such as DeAngelo Hall with the Redskins, it’s possible he and his agent felt he had greater worth than that.
What I believed happened is as follows. Robinson got injured so severely that there were whispers about whether he would ever be able to return full strength in the last year of his current contract. With his career seemingly up in the air, Robinson wanted to secure his football future with the Texans but thought that his play for the team for the first years of his career should have earned him the loyalty from the owner/GM that they would reward him as a top flight corner over multiple season.
The Texans also saw that Robinson’s future was in doubt and as such wanted to sign him for as few guaranteed years as possible. Robinson felt insulted by this because in his mind he’d already proven himself to the team and shouldn’t have to be in position to need to renegotiate again in a few short years. In these talks, Robinson made it clear that he didn’t want to be franchised because he wanted to secure a long term contract, preferrably with the Texans but elsewhere if need be. He was told by the GM that he would not be franchised and not to worry about it, then when negotiations stalled he was franchised.
I’m not saying he didn’t act like a spoiled child with some of his antics, but I understand where they were coming from. If you put yourself in his shoes, there’s literally no way you wouldn’t be put off by the way the contract talks were handled by the Texans.
I'm enjoying the juxtaposition between your excuses for Dunta and your recently stated dislike of Ochocinco
It’s fun.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
How can you even compare the two?
Robinson has never been disruption in the locker room, 8 5 has.
Robinson has never had a falling out with his head coach and then run to the nearest TV camera to take shots at how the team will never win and he wants to leave, 8 5 has.
The worst act of self-promotion Robinson has done is write “pay me rick” on his shoes in the first game after a lenthy contract dispute that had turned bitter, 8 5 has a novel sized list of fines and penalties over his preening on the field.
Every Texan players asked about Robinsons contract dispute stated that they hope Robinson gets a long term deal because he’s earned it. Several Bengals players when asked about 8 5’s contract dispute a few years ago said he should probably just part ways with the team.
They’re not the same at all.
I disagree.
And that’s all I’ll say cause it’s pretty clear we are never going to see eye-to-eye on any issue here.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
I agree with Bryan on this.
Dunta Robinson isn’t a virus. Travis Johnson was gone not because he was a virus. He was gone because the Texans didn’t want to use a roster spot on a guy that they didn’t know whether he was going to be on a field or not.
DR’s teammates like him. He doesn’t miss time on the field (during the regular season, or unless he is smooshed by own teammate). He’s very competitive. He said all the right things at the end of the season to show contrition for being a dumbass in the off-season.
In a passing league which is the modern NFL, experienced cornerback is a premium position. You can’t have enough corners. As poor as DR played at times last year, I would not have wanted to see a Texans team without him. I think one of the reasons that the Texans defense improved from the first three games is that DR finally got his feet under him some. Yes, that was all on him. But he’s apologized for that, and it is in the past. It’s not like he is some sort of criminal.
The price that DR is going to want is going to be more than his performance is worth, but that’s most corners these days because there’s so few semi-competent corners out there. In short, I think the roster is better with him than without him, so I’d like to see him back. Whether the fans liked his act last season or not, is irrelevant to me.
It's like buying a used car
The salesman vs the buyer. The salesman wants as much as he can get, the buyer is looking to squeeze as much out of the deal as possible, perhaps to the point where he gets up and starts to walk out. The buyer wants the care, the salesman wants to sell it…..eventually the two parties shake on a deal and the buyer drives away with the car. That’s what is going on right now.
We’re on the outside watching. Some of us like the car and some of us test drove that car before and we don’t like it……
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Alright, the connotations of virus are probably too strong here.
I just don’t think he can do it on the field anymore. And like losing Johnson, I think taking Robinson out of the equation is a net positive for the Texans even assuming we wind up with his replacement being mediocre or bad.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Maybe Robinson is the answer at Free Safety?
I think he still have football instincts, if not top end speed. What do you think?
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Well it comes down to the money game, really.
Safeties don’t make high end dollars. Dunta is going to look for high end dollars. Plus, he took not getting paid like a demi-God as a slap in the face, how would he take being told “you’re not good enough to be a cornerback. Here, play safety.”?
It’s creative, I’ll grant you. But probably impossible.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 10, 2010 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
True, I kinda knew that before I asked it.....
That could be his chance to show what a team player he is. Does he want to become a free agent, so he can sign a bigger contract and go somewhere else where another team may not be so loving of his quirks, OR does he want to sign for what he is worth and be open to change. Is the team even considering something like that? Maybe, Dunta is so adamant that it will never work out anyway. Maybe we are all stuck with him as a starting CB. Worth keeping an eye on.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
NO NO NO to patrick robinson
but i have a corner for you in the fourth
dominique franks – he isnt a burner but i bet he is faster than dunta is now
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
Is there
a CB named Chris Brown? Because I’m willing to put money on us drafting him.
well how about OU running back chris brown??????????
in the sixth round
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
I was reading the mock draft on bleacher report
and when i saw his name on the mock draft as worse case scenario I laughed, mostly because thanx to 2009 Year of the Chris/Kris (shankapotomus) Browns made me want to rip my hairs out… and not just the ones on my scalp!!!!
If we draft CB from OU I will drive to Houston and kick McNair, Kubiak, and Smith in the testicles!!! I think the name should be banned from Reliant stadium, and any player named chris brown must be called Chris Poocolor
by Taco Joe on Feb 11, 2010 11:34 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
for mocking the mock draft on bleacher report.
We all know that place is full of hacks and potential Comicle writers.
Right Vega?
by Jordann on Feb 11, 2010 11:52 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Allen-OU advocating an OU player?
Now I’ve seen everything.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Too be fair to myself
I would be dissappointed if we used a pick on any sooner other than Dominique franks. Could be our next quin.
by AllenOU on Feb 8, 2010 5:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Kris Brown sucks.
There, covered it for you. Spare us.
by Nashmeister on Feb 8, 2010 4:53 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I really wouldn't be writing much about Brown.
But that makes it 1-1.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
But
There are so many flavors of his suck. He is like a many splendored rainbow of failure.
Please for the love of god
No write up on the kicker
by AllenOU on Feb 8, 2010 5:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Ha, I think I framed this question wrong and made everyone think the writeup would be on the kicker
When I meant the comments.
But that is alright, I can live without writing up the special teams.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Here's your special teams write-up
Matt Turk is old but could do the job for one or two more years, Kris Brown has the heebejeebies and it’s probably time to sever. Texans were okay on coverage and Jacoby broke a few 1 going to the House.
The End.
by b0ng on Feb 10, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's only because if it is there
Well then I have to read it. I can’t just NOT look at it if it is just SITTING there waiting for me.
It’s like being really drunk with a dirty stripper. I mean it’s right there!
by AllenOU on Feb 8, 2010 7:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Allen come out to AZ
I will get you drunk and then introduce you to this stripper who is 38 yrs old and can put her feet behind her head during a lap dance… talk about disturbing…
hmm
Granted that Dunta was sub-par last year, and is unlikely to be any better next year. But why is it a good idea to get rid of him, given how weak the depth at corner is (even with, say, a high round draft pick)?
assuming
he can come back at an affordable price, for the sake of the argument, at least.
He thinks his hi price is affordable
I think it’s time we move in a different direction
he is gonna want a lengthy contract, and I’m not giving dunta even 25 mil for 5 years with 8 guaranteed. And he would laugh at that. Someone will overpay I’m sure
by AllenOU on Feb 8, 2010 7:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well it's pretty simple
If you think he’s sub-par and has a chance to rebound, you’ll want him back.
If you think he’s awful, and was the reason cornerback was weak last year, you won’t.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 8, 2010 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
Well
I haven’t seen anything solid supporting the claim that he’s awful, in the Busing/Russel mode. He was probably a reason cornerback was weak next year, but if everyone behind him is even worse (and, its pretty much arguable that that is the case), getting rid of him may well be a bad move.
Oh
I thought my whole comment section on him and the whole statistical section would be enough support to claim he was awful.
Ah well, what are you gonna do.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Your stats confirmed what
I’ve seen on gameday – and probably some in crucial plays. ’puzzled where the lovefest is coming from. IMO, he will no longer be the old Dunta.
dude
I know you like being snarky, but this is kinda weak.
You had no FO stats for last year for Dunta. You did supply PFF stats for 2009 … which purport to show that Dunta was the best cover cornerback we had. So, no, your “whole statistical section” did nothing to support the claim that he was awful, much less that he needs to be gone, given our depth. They do purport to show that he sucked balls at run support.
Your observations about him getting lucky by being out of position for several long balls that weren’t completed are, I’m sure, good ones. But IIRC correctly you don’t do your in-depth game-charting on every Texans’ play, just more or less a half for each game. So given this, and problems of confirmation bias, you can’t be all that certain that Dunta is even all that much worse than our other corners either.
So what are you going to do? Ummm, make a better argument that he is much worse than our other cornerbacks?
by killtacular on Feb 10, 2010 12:09 AM CST up reply actions
which purport to show that Dunta was the best cover cornerback we had.
At least, he’s the “least negative” on the pass coverage rating. He comes up big on penalties, and those are obviously largely while on pass coverage, but I have no idea whether those are included in the +/- for pass coverage or not. If not, then your stats don’t show that he’s the best cover corner, and given that he’s not THAT much better ranked on pass coverage, and comes out pretty shitty on run support, I suppose that might be the better argument that he’s awful and needs to go.
by killtacular on Feb 10, 2010 12:13 AM CST up reply actions
They don't co-mingle in the pass coverage stats.
It’s part of the reason why he was so bad.
But no, I think you can craft a compelling statistical argument that Dunta Robinson is not the worst cover cornerback on the team. I just think when you factor in the penalties and the footage that it’s pretty clear he was much worse than the stats gave him credit for. And the stats didn’t exactly think he was good in the first place.
No, I don’t go through the other halves and chart them, but it’s not like I don’t watch them with a trained eye for this sort of thing. In fact, most of the beaten deep examples I drew on in TexansDC’s fanpost were from halves I DIDN’T chart, IIRC.
I don’t really see much snark there either. I pointed out that I thought I made a good case in the section. You apparently read it differently based on how he was better in one stat than the other Texans, on a website that I have spent a lot of time disagreeing on the ratings for. I dunno what else to tell you with that. NFL Statistics, especially for non-skill players, are just not anywhere near absolute enough to ride as a true talent opinion in my book. Which is why I tried to gather as much as I could. If FO put out the 09 stats for a non-premium database (I assume they’re there, I’ve never been premium), they’d be right up there too.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 10, 2010 1:34 AM CST up reply actions
I said it before but I'll say it here
I like that there’s debate on BRB, and that we’re not blindly accepting what 2 or 3 people say (like say a certain other blog with a certain little man).
Ok
Then, the penalties definitely downgrade him statistically.
And I was probably bitchier than I intended to be (I’m in Jersey, which means snow day tomorrow, which means drizzunken time right now). I thought you made a good case that Dunta isn’t all that good, but not necessarily a strong case that he was markedly worse than our other options at CB. I’m with you that he’s not all that good, I’m just not sure that getting rid of him is a good idea. Basically, TexansDC post from a little bit ago kinda convinced me, and at this point I don’t see Dunta as being the 46th best player on the team, much less the 54th, much less at one of our weakest positions.
I guess the point is, getting rid of Dunta means rookie/Quinn/Reeves as our starting corners. Whats the case for that being better than throwing Dunta in there somewhere?
I think we are talking about snow
I wish it would snow where I live, just once. That would be awesome, I could watch my Shiba run around in the snow.
www.manningface.com
I have plenty of snow.
Next time I come home from Wyoming, I’ll bring you some and you can hold it in your deep freezer till winter time and act like it snowed for one day.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
Well
in the sense that it certainly looks like he’s still one of our top corners (unfortunately), and we’d be worse off without him, ya.
Well for one thing, Reeves had a better year in 08 than some gave him credit for
I think he could be better than Dunta tomorrow if he got the regular reps.
Quin has upside. The rookie would (I’d hope) have upside. If Quin gains a step or learns how to better cover underneath, he’s better than Dunta hands down right now. So to me, he’s depth. And combining depth with the kind of money that Dunta will want is just not going to work.
But, like I said waaaay up there at the start of this thread. If you think he’s sub-optimal but startable, it’s just not going to be easy to convince you.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 10, 2010 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
He did indeed.
Can you imagine where we would have been if we’d had a CB with four picks last season? Hell, I’d have settled for two from any of our guys.
Ok
I totally see that, I also like Reeves.
So maybe you’ve convinced me now, at least given that we get a decent corner in the draft. But one more question: given that there isn’t a salary cap next year, why do we care, exactly, how much money Dunta gets next year? At this point, without a new CBA, we can resign our FAs (or, really, Franchise/whatever tag them), with absolutely no downside other than the hit to the owner’s pocket. So, whats wrong with keeping Dunta for depth, given that we don’t really care about how many millions Adams has?
We care because
You’re living in a fantasyland if you think the owners in general (and McNair in particular) are going to be expanding their payrolls to make use of this. The same old moneysplashers will throw their millions out there…Snyder, Jones, Arthur Blank, Al Davis. Other than that, the lack of a salary cap and the lack of a salary floor are going to combine to cut spending big time. I’d love to spend all McNair’s money too, but I’d be stunned if we wound up spending more than we did last year. And that’s not even getting into the doomsday scenario where the rookie salary cap is abolished and the draft becomes an auction.
Secondly, we’ve all seen how big Dunta’s ego is. The shoes, the turning down of a huge contract, pouting over being franchised. Does this seem like the kind of person who would accept a demotion happily? IMO if Dunta is not a starter at CB here, he won’t want to be here at all. Either by leaving via FA or holding out completely.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 11, 2010 5:07 AM CST up reply actions
Why wouldn't Robinson start here?
That he struggled as a #1 corner last year doesn’t change the fact that he was still the best corner we had and many of his troubles came from his year off from football and the lack of any training camp/preseason to get in shape for the regular season. If you really think Reeves or Quinn could step in and replace Robinson and get better results, you’re dreaming.
If he had kept his mouth shut and just took being lied to by the team on the chin, would there still be so much negativity towards Robinson, or would fans acknowledge that sometimes it takes a year for players coming off major injuries to return to form? If that’s the case, it’s silly to make personnel[ decisions based on fans’ popularity vote.
If the Texans believe he’s the best corner on the team, they’ll try to resign him if they can. If they feel like he’s a waste of roster space as some fans seem to believe, they won’t even negotiate with him and just let his contract expire quietly. I don’t think what any of us think about player’s personalities will influence the team in the slightest when it comes to roster decisions.
He asked if bringing back Dunta as depth was a possibility
And I answered.
Perhaps you should, yano, read the comments before you jump into attack mode.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 11, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
And you said
“IMO if Dunta is not a starter at CB here, he won’t want to be here at all. Either by leaving via FA or holding out completely.”
Which left the question open, why wouldn’t he start for the Texans?
I wasn’t in attack mode, I was simply responding to a line of discussion centered around the Idea that Robinson would return to the team as depth or in your case that he wouldn’t because of pride and ego.
You were responding to it as well and had the opportunity to mention that he would be starting on the team if he stayed based on the fact that he’s the best corner we have at the moment. But you didn’t, so I did. It was relevant because given that fact, the discussion of whether he would be willing to play as a reserve is moot. If the Texans resign Robinson they will do so because they want him in their starting lineup.
There’s no attacking there, just me putting in my two cents… I’m sorry if you don’t approve.
Our whole line of discussion involves the assumption
That Dunta is not as good as Reeves or Quin.
An assumption which you, as you have pointed out in this thread and many others, do not share. We get it.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 11, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Try reading....
from the bottom up.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Feb 11, 2010 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So then why get snippity?
It’s not like my comments were out of place, they were directly related to the topic being discussed.
It’s not as if the negative comments regarding Robinson aren’t being repeated, so repeating my own points as the situation calls seems appropriate to me.
Honestly it seems like the biggest problem is some people have trouble taking a debate at face value without taking personal insult over the implication that they might be “wrong” about something.
Because it's not adding anything new to the discussion.
I could care less who winds up being right or wrong at this point. Everything has been put out there. In fact, I tried to end this whole thread of discussion prematurely by basically saying “read the post” and admitting that it would be hard to change someones mind if they were still convinced otherwise at this point. Who exactly is repeating the negative points on Robinson? I’m responding to questions.
I’m not out to trample on free speech rights here. I just don’t get the motivation behind you rehashing your points in the context of a discussion where they don’t really have any meaning. Are they tangibly related? Yes. Does a discussion of Dunta’s misdeeds affecting the fans perception of his performance mean anything in relation to a what-if scenario where he would not come back as a backup? Not so much.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 11, 2010 6:11 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe you should go back and re-read the comments
The question was why not bring Robinson back for depths purposes regardless of the paycheck he wants.
You responded by saying that not only would the owner not do that, but Robinson would not agree to a contract to be a reserve.
I said that it wouldn’t happen because if the Texans sign Robinson it’ll be because they want him as a starter…
In reality we were both saying the same thing for two different reasons, it just seems like the fastest way to put you off is to mention something possitve about Robinson.
ya
that makes sense as well, I don’t really see Dunta taking the demotion either.
I'd like to hear the answer too, but I'll also pass this along
You can find a lot of Dunta debate here.
I noticed that whole statistical side of the argument which led to my Fanpost and then people went back and forth on it.
ya
I liked that post. I still kinda like Dunta because of his stuff prior to the injury (I could care less about the contract stuff: the NFL fucks players in favor of the owners, so (almost) anything they do is fine with me, even if it kinda bitchy). But I also kinda thought he sucked, so it was an interesting read for sure.
Anyone know reeves contract
Something like 20 for 4 yrs
by AllenOU on Feb 8, 2010 7:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions
How soon I'd forgotten...
…about our friend Bryan Russell.
WTF was that guy doing on the field!?!
He didn’t even look like a football player. He looked like a punter.
I’m sure he’s a stand-up dude, though.
He's no Matt Stevens
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 9, 2010 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
Matt Stevens arm flail
sometimes worked.
But this is good stuff nonetheless.
I would like to see a special teams breakdown.
Meaning I want to justify my hate for Andre Davis.
I've enjoyed your season in review series
and I’d like to learn more of what you think of the special teams stuff.
Let’s face it .. the superbowl is over and we need our football fix until the draft.
So please count me as a “yes” to a special teams version of your season in review series.
Idea
Special teams write up with a picture of half the burnt toast slightly hanging off of the left side of a plate next to kris browns name
by AllenOU on Feb 9, 2010 3:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Look deeper than that...
Kris Brown kicked with his eyes closed…
Every kick was like a kick to the balls.
I say NO, on the Special Teams review
God help us all if I see one more review of a 2009 (Ch)(K)ris Brown on this blog. I’d be very, very careful who you talk to about that, because the person who writes that… is dangerous. This button-down, Oxford-cloth psycho might just snap, and then stalk from office to office with an Armalite AR-10 carbine gas-powered semi-automatic weapon, pumping round after round into colleagues and co-workers. This might be someone you’ve known for years. Someone very, very close to you.
"380 pounds of pure pirogi" ~ Cush
Special teams review
Can you just break down the number of penalties & yards-lost (because of said penalties) on Special Teams compared to the rest of the league.
I mean, I know it looked shitty during the season. But I’d like to see in numbers exactly how shitty it was.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Didn't we actually do pretty good in punt coverage?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 9, 2010 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
We had one of the best
PR coverage units (4.3 yards per return…I believe).
The mothership had an interview with Matt Turk (UFA) who said he did what was asked (hung the ball up/sacrificed distance) so the coverage team could cut down on the returns.
The funny thing about punt coverage is
Subjectively, we had a LOT of missed tackles there. But we also had so many guys flying down the field that it slowed down the returner.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Sounds like Madden
Madden players don’t tackle, they just sending guys diving at your feet until you trip.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Feb 9, 2010 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
Punt coverage was good
but IIRC when we were the return team we had a lot of good returns called back by penalties. That’s, of course, completely subjective and from memory, but like Shake asked it would be interesting to see what the stats say.
This ^^^
I seem to remember an absurd amount of penalties on our punt & kickoff returns…..to the point that I remember being surprised during one game when a nice return did not get called back by the yellow laundry.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Missed this:
Why he felt the need to dive when he was being covered by Dunta Robinson is up for interpretation.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
probably though he was the predator
and not a five year old girl
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
Relevant to this thread's interests
Beat writer John McClain speculates that if the Texans don’t franchise CB Dunta Robinson, a big-spending owner will step in and give Robinson a long-term deal.
Without Robinson, the Texans would be very thin and short on talent at corner. We’d expect them to do everything they can to keep Robinson in the fold.
Source: Houston Chronicle
That change anything for you Dunta backers? Want him back at 12 mil again?
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Anything over 6 million...
is overpaying. And even 6 million in a thin market hurts.
Seriously, where’s my news on DeMeco and Pollard? Those are 1 and 2 on important re-signs.
6 million
pesos.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Feb 11, 2010 2:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And I actually read the article that Pancakes wrote...
He was speculating. With no information or investigating. Those are his own opinions.
Again, the Texans front office remains silent.
They throw darts at a board you know
I once read a headline on chron.com that said
" the texans have given Roy oswalt a 73 mil extension". It was up for at LEAST an hour
if dunta is back I’m gonna be pissed off. Learn when to let go
by AllenOU on Feb 10, 2010 1:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's hard to let go when there aren't many better options out there...
However, if you listen to Bob McNair address the situation (in yesterday’s news conference), it kinda came off as if he was looking to see if there were any better options…..as if Dunta was his back-up plan. That’s just how it came off to me.
Haha, well the Rotoworld thing also said he was speculating.
But yeah, what a bunch of mooks they have over there.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Feb 10, 2010 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
You fall short in recognition of the impact of the Bonecrusher !
Some points to consider regarding Bernard Pollard :
1 During Pollard’s last season with the Chiefs in 2008 he led the team in tackles and knocked Brady out for the year – hardly a “dreadful” season as you stated above
2 Pollard had 2 defensive TD’s – big plays that mattered – in 2009
3 Pollard missed training camp and early games and had to learn a new system with new coaches and teamates by joining after the season had started
4 Pollard had 102 tackles in 2009 – ranked 36th in the NFL
5 BP had 2 of his 4 int’s vs Indy in one game – off Manning and Wayne – almost enough to win that game
6 Pollard’s confrontations with Vince Young and Stephan Jackson boosted the Texans rep as as an intimidating defense
7 Pollard’s big hits and QB pressures affected the way opponents played offense vs Houston
8 Pollard had 11 passes defensed – most of any NFL SS
Here are some more Bonecrusher stats :
k Player Team Pos Comb Total Ast Sck SFTY PDef Int TDs Yds Lng FF Rec TD
1 Blake Costanzo CLE LB 14 9 5 0.0 — — — — — — 2 3 0
1 Brian Dawkins DEN FS 116 95 21 0.0 — 13 2 0 0 0 1 3 0
1 Mike Devito NYJ DE 28 20 8 0.0 — — — — — — 0 3 0
1 Glenn Dorsey KC DE 54 41 13 1.0 — — — — — — 0 3 0
1 Bernard Pollard HOU SS 102 81 21 1.5 0 11 4 1 121 70T 1 3 1
He’s always open. He catches a lot of balls. He’s un-guardable, no matter how old he is








































