The 5 & 5 - 2009 Player Value
by TexansDC on Mar 1, 2010 7:31 PM CST
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PrintAll the recent talk about salaries, player value, and the like got me wondering which players on the roster played beyond their contracts. As I looked into the numbers, I also saw players who were earning more than they should. After that, the idea came to me do a little post on this information, and the 5 & 5 was born.
This time we're looking at: 5 players whose play exceeded their salaries in 2009 and 5 who are barely more useful than this guy.
I'm not a salary cap guy. I won't even pretend to understand all of its intricacies. What I can understand is how well a player performs and if there is value when compared to their salary. I'm not demanding players to be cut or given new deals, but just comparing their play to their salary. One thing I did notice is that the Texans aren't locked into many bad deals. In that sense, [General Manager] Rick Smith does a great job.
For the sake of this list, injuried players will not count or else Chester Pitts and his $6,197,280 cap number would be placed on it. Before anyone complains, Teh Schaub, Super Mario, and The Juggernaut are not on the good 5 list because they do live up to their star salaries. The salary numbers come from this site here and is their listed cap number. Why that site? It is legit stuff.
Without further ado, I present the 5 and 5 (below the jump).
Bottom 5:
5. Cornerback Jacques Reeves ($3,307,280)
It's not that the six-year veteran was a horrible player, but he's the nickel cornerback sitting behind a guy who makes a fraction of the cost - remember it's about value here. Reeves's numbers (one interception, seven passes defensed) also weren't that much better than the guy right behind him on the depth chart either. Those two cheap corners are really why Reeves is here more than his own play. Reeves will need to step up his game or he'll get lost in the corner-shuffle. On the other hand, it's a sign of Rick doing a good job that the bottom player here is not necessarily bad.
4. Wide Receiver/Kick Returner Andre' Davis ($3,000,000)
Why are the Texans paying Apostrophe $3 million? He makes the second-best salary for a wide receiver on this team. His receiving numbers have gone done in his three years as a Texan to a wonderful six receptions for 59 yards. Special teamer? Well, he's only a kick returner these days. He returned 33 kicks and had no touchdowns. 39 touches does not equal that salary which is higher than Owen Daniels. Even if Kevin Walter is not re-signed, Davis has never had a season where he caught more than 40 passes or for more than 582 yards so I don't put a lot of faith in the soon-to-be 31 year old. I don't hate Apostrophe, but this salary puzzles me.
3. Kicker Kris Brown ($2,487,280)
Mr. Shankapotamus. 65.6% of his field goals went through the uprights. Two games lost and/or untied because of Brown. His year was worst among opening day starters, but his salary rates seventh among kickers. He had some value in kickoffs, but 11 missed field goals (and a missed extra point) should have Rick demanding a refund for 2009.
2. Running Back Chris Brown ($1,669,780)
What can I say? The Double Agent had no value. 79 carries. 16 catches. Two goal line fumbles. One awesome HB pass. A bunch of livers that are much closer to cirrhosis. Just not worth it at all. However, his relatively low salary gives way to...
1. Cornerback Dunta Robinson ($9,957,000)
Pick your jaws up off the floor, BRB. I know this is quite the shock, but you have to believe me on this one. Dunta is not a top-five CB. In fact, if you listen to ProFootballFocus.com, Dunta's not even a top 100 CB. Coverage wise, he was middle of the pack with pitiful stats (zero interceptions, nine passes defensed). He can't keep up with anyone that has decent speed. Somehow, Dunta thinks he deserves top money. No wonder we're so happy to see him leave. The only good he can do now is help us get a decent compensatory pick (third through seventh round IF the Texans lose more free agents than they sign and based on contract numbers of the lost FAs).
Top 5:
5. Tight End Joel Dreessen ($922,280)
I'm not calling for him to get a raise, but Dreessen was able to step in and step up once Owen Daniels went down. While he did initially struggle in his new role, JD eventually grew into it by the Miami (four catches for 65 yards) and New England (six catches for 81 yards and a touchdown) games. For a guy making six-figures, he could be a starter in this league.
4. Outside Linebacker Brian Cushing ($1,516,000)
Yes, The Waterboy got the coveted first round contract (and signing bonus), but his cap number on the season is low compared to the immediate impact he provided. We knew we got a steal last season, right guys? I mean even kids saw it, you know we did as well, right?
3. Middle Linebacker DeMeco Ryans ($1,753,530)
He should've gotten a new deal last season, but this off-season he's ready to cash in. The Captain has come in and been nothing but consistently good since his rookie season. Every year, we've come to expect 100+ tackles and great leadership from the former second round pick. Rick, stop reading BRB and pay the man like the top 5 middle linebacker he is.
2. Cornerback Glover Quin ($432,562)
Quin developed into a starter and fastly become a man-crush of many BRBers here - mainly because of his exceptional tackling (68 tackles). While a lot of us believe he's bound to be a free safety one day, Quin was still a full-time starting cornerback - who had two more passes defensed than a man who made 22 times more money. That's value. If he can keep improving then he'll earn himself a nice contract in the future.
1. Strong Safety Bernard Pollard ($472,059)
No one did more while getting paid nothing. Pollard transformed this Houston defense. He gave us attitude. He played tough, gritty football. His weightspeed was off the charts. Bernard Pollard was nothing short of great at the young age of 24. Can he improve in coverage? Yes (although he contributed four interceptions and seven passes defensed). However, he was third on the team in tackles (102) despite only playing 13 games, came on as a blitzer down the stretch (1.5 sacks in the final three games), and will knock the piss out of you if you say he didn't earn a much improved deal.
There you go BRB, the 5 & 5. What say you? Agree? Disagree? Sound off below the brilliant picture.
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Reeves should have started. His problem is he is horrible in zone, and for some reason we think its a good idea to run zone.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
He should've started
However, he wasn’t. Hopefully he can earn one in training camp.
Honestly, I debated him and Ragdoll for spot 5, but it was the performance of Quin and McCain that had me put up Reeves. It’s a good sign that we can’t easily pick out bad deals on the roster (and that 2 of those 5 are off the books for 2010).
I would put Ragdoll in front of Reeves
because Reeves is at least serviceable. Ragdoll is…(someone fill in the blank for me)
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 2, 2010 12:50 AM CST up reply actions
Have you ever noticed
….fortune cookies taste like toasted marshmallows?
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Next time you're eating one, close your eyes and think about that
…and report back!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Wow
That is the scariest fucking idea that I’ve heard in a long time.
I put the over/under at 2.5 for deaths during said camping trip.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
That's if no guns are involved....
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
That was uncalled for
but, bring it up again and we’ll vote on it…
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Really?
So I guess you didn’t get any invitations during the Combine in Indy
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
No, I decided not to go to Peter King's tweetup.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 3, 2010 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How can you tell if Peter King has his tweetup?
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
ring......ring.....
Hello, Brett? Rip here.
Hi Rip.
How can you tell if Peter King has his tweetup?
Oh, that’s a good question. You know Rip, I read his book, Monday Morning Quarterback, thinking that I was going to get the inside scoop on what is what in the NFL. But all I read about was what some self-absorbed idiot thought about hairdos, bad places to stay, and what he doesn’t like in the hot beverages that he drinks. If I wanted to read about something more impertinent to the NFL, I would have gone to the grocery store and read the back of every cereal box there. I think the only thing that will get his tweetup is his own reflection.
Oh….thanks, Brett.
No prob, Rip.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
We should invite Bryan
It just wouldn’t be right to throw a BRB camping trip without Bryan.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 3, 2010 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
If we didn't trade for Ragdoll
We possibly could have Pierre Garcon on the roster…that’s what burns me when I see Ragdoll fail.
And that's one of the reasons why im not a fan of Frank Bush.
Even Richard Smith knew that Frenchy was better off playing man than zone!
I can't argue much with that list
I think everyone on the top 5 definitely deserves some recognition. DeMeco better get a new deal soon because I really don’t understand what could be hard for Rick Smith at this point. I could understand holding off on Pollard because I want to see him develop a little more and improve on last season. Dreessen probably made it harder for Daniels to get the kind of contract he wants because it showed that he can be replaced in our offense.
Cushing and Quin, just improve on what you did last year.
I’m not going to say anything about the players on the bottom 5. I will say that while Reeves is a serviceable corner, I wouldn’t be shocked if he gets cut this off-season since there is no cap penalty.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 2, 2010 12:57 AM CST reply actions
It was hard to put Reeves at 5
I wanted to go with Ragdoll, but Reeves was making roughly 50% more. I literally flip-flopped on that for a while as I dug into salaries. Ragdoll is the 4th highest paid lineman, but he also is a starter. I mean you can literally go back and forth about are they worth it.
I agree that Dreessen emerging hurt OD. Dreessen, if he averaged what he did in those last 2 games, would have a season of 80 catches, 1,168 yards, and 8 TDs. That’s nothing to scoff at really. Plus, we can get Thor onto the field and that guy can be a weapon for us.
I can’t help but say if OD wants to be a baby then give Cincinnati or Cleveland or some other TE hungry team a call and see what they offer.
I understand the argument
If Reeves was being paid the same amount as Ragdoll, then it would be no question. That is why I’m really thinking that if we can sign a Leigh Bodden in FA, Reeves could be cut.
It really sucks about Daniels. I know there is a business to football, but you would think that he would overlook that to be part of one of the top passing offenses in the league. At least that is what I would be thinking. Take the RFA tender and work to show that the injury isn’t going to be an issue. But if it becomes an issue, trade him off. Dreessen along with Thor could replace OD. Plus, I think we’re going to see more of Hill next season in Dennison’s offense.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 2, 2010 1:37 AM CST up reply actions
Reeves, Molden, Bennett definitely aren’t safe. Whomever they add (Bodden? Rookie?) will make for an interesting training camp battle. I’d love to see Bennett and Reeves step up in a big way.
Yeah, OD really has nothing to stand on…unless he’s still on crutches. It’s a tough situation for him (and us as fans who appreciate his work), but I can’t fault Rick. When it comes to contracts, he, more or less, has done a fantastic job.
Apostrophe’s salary is one that could see him cut if we drafted a return guy. 31 years old, never really been a big receiving threat, and getting paid the 2nd highest WR salary? I’d rather bring back Walter and draft a guy like Freddie Barnes in round 5 than hope Davis surprises us.
I’m just glad that there aren’t a lot of “bad” contracts on the roster. Antonio and Winston make 5 million, but that’s not too shabby. Duane Brown only accounted for $1.something million which is a bit stunning. His salary wouldn’t prevent him from moving inside to OG if we went OT in round 1.
With Dunta’s 9+, Chester’s 6+, and a few other expiring contracts coming off…we seem to be pretty good in respect to that situation.
No one can fault Rick Smith
he has done his job. I’m ecstatic about how we do not add bogus contracts. Andre Davis is the one outlier to me but I think he is good as gone this off-season. I would like to have Walter back because he has great hands and a blocking receiver. Smith and Winston are understandable because of their positions. I think they are worth the money. I would like Bennett to bounce back because he is still young, but who knows if that’ll happen. In all, we have the money to make a few moves this off-season, we are not stuck in bad contracts to have bad players starting over someone better, and another good draft should finally put us into the playoffs.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 2, 2010 2:41 AM CST up reply actions
Well thought out and interesting piece, TDC!
Thanks for the good read. Rec’d!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
The Bottom Five
Dunta Robinson is for intents and purposes, gone. Chris Brown should be gone…one can only hope. For Kris Brown, Andre Davis and Jaques Reeves; how many years left on their excessive contracts?
There is a very good chance that Kris Brown will return. He had the yips at one time earlier in his career at Pittsburgh and overcame that when coming to the Texans. Maybe he can do it again. If he does, I suppose he comes off this list, which is good. If not, then he becomes a casualty and gets cut, and again, he comes off this list.
Of the other two, I see Davis as the most expendable. He plays a position that is occupied by an All-Pro, Andre Johnson, who is not going anywhere. Davis is really just insurance so the team can continue to operate if Johnson goes down. Perhaps the way to dispense of this expensive insurance is to elevate Jacoby Jones as the new insurance policy and bring in a draft pick to take Jacoby’s spot.
With the exit of Robinson, Jaques Reeves position on this team becomes heightened. And, don’t forget, he was coming off a broken leg incurred just before the season was starting last year. So, yes, he has a hefty contract compared to his production. But, you can’t produce when walking around in a boot on the sidelines. If he is healthy this year, I think Reeves represents himself well and lives up to his contract.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Agree w/ the thoughts on Andre' & Frenchy
And I would add that regarding the size of Apostrophe’s contract, let us all remember how horribly thin our WR corps was back when we signed him.
WR very literally went from the biggest need to the most largely-blessed area of the team in a single offseason.
And Frenchy will be the best man-cover CB on this team in 2010 (baring injury). There, I said it.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Agreed
I think Andre’ is gone. I can’t see the front office betting in a 31 year old specialist. They can re-sign KW and draft someone in the later rounds. I want KW re-signed just because it keeps Jacoby in the slot where he can really be a mismatch.
Salaries 2010
There is no way Andre’ Davis is a Texan in 2010. He has a high cap number because he blew up in 2008 and had a good year (remember 2 kickoff returns in 30 seconds against Jax in the last game of the year). They signed him to a huge contract and then…nothing.
With no salary cap, cutting him does not incur dead money later, so even though it hurts to have given him a signing bonus for one year’s play, there is not any ‘forward pain.’
The one guy I wish would step up is Molden. He was a 3rd round pick in 08, and they were high on him until he broke his ankle late that year. He has all the measurables. He just needs to stay healthy. This is definitely his make or break year – and he has to do it in training camp, can’t wait until later in the year. If he doesn’t impress during camp, he’s probably gone.
And I would put Chris Brown, Andre’ Davis, Chaun Thompson as my 3 most useless high paid players. Reeves at least played a lot for his money – whereas the Double Agent was useless.
I think you're dead on with Molden
Quin, Reeves, McCain, Bennett, Molden, and maybe the Rookie
It’d be nice to have 6 good CBs to take on Indy, but one of these guys may not make it out of camp if they don’t step up.
I don't think it was just kick returns for apostrophe.
When they signed him, it made sense. Jacoby was terribly inconsistent, and Andre Johnson was coming off of an injury. When they signed apostrophe, they became very deep at WR. Had they not signed him though, things would have been worrisome… If Jacoby doesn’t develop and AJ tweaks his knee again, they’d suddenly be very thin.
In hindsight, bad signing. But I can forgive that one.
If I remember correctly
Andre Davis stepped in aptly when AJ went down a few seasons ago. I have thought he has performed very good when put in position to play. It’s not his fault that he is relegated to the bench because AJ is out there every weekend.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
thankfully
and apostrophe returned two kickoffs for TDs in one game to earn that money.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
Yes
But he hasn’t scored a TD (return or receiving) in 2 seasons. He’s seen his KR average drop by 7 yards. He’s being outperformed by Jacoby Jones (26 yard avg and 1 TD to Davis’s 23 and 0) His receptions/yards have gone from 33 and 583 to 6 and 59.
His salary is going from $3 million (2nd highest for a WR) to $3.45 million in 2010 where he’ll be the 5th option as a WR and coming off 2 straight lackluster seasons as a kick returner. His salary is currently top 10 among the roster and his deal runs through 2011 where I assume his price will jump up a bit more. 2010 is uncapped so this would be the perfect time to cut Davis and replace him with a cheaper, late round draft pick.
or Glen Martinez
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
That's my recollection as well...
I seem to remember being very thankful that Apostrophe was on the team when AJ went down. I’m a little surprised that they haven’t found a way to work him on the field any more than they have. I remember him going up STRONG for some balls in the air and being pretty impressed after watching Texans receivers not come back to the ball and kind of wait around out there for the bus to come by.
However, we ARE receiver rich right now and the cost per receptions may just not add up to keep him.
Good shit TDC.
Rec’d deservedly.
I have one question though, who were you referring to as “The Juggernaut” in the introduction?
Shake's got it
Juggernaut works for Andre. Once he stops going, who can stop him?
Eff Megatron. We got The Juggernaut.
Ah. My bad.
When I read “The Juggernaut”, I always think of the Houston Texans. You know, back in the old days.
As for the "The Juggernaut" being Andre Johnson's nick name
It’s good. But he doesn’t need a fancy nickname like every other receiver in the league. Anything that remotely rhymes with"Andre Johnson" already strikes fear in the hearts of opposing defenses.
The offense looked unstoppable down the stretch
When Andre was involved early and often. Hopefully, Dennison realizes that the best player needs the ball early and often.
Does Dre need a nickname? No. However, he’s really the only player on the team without one. We can’t leave him out.
Unstoppable, except if injuries forestall the tandem of Schaub-Juggernaut
So, that being said, the Texans need to draft O-line in the 1st round!!! There, I said it again! Hahahahaha! O-line! O-line!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Haha
Well, the salaries make it possible for Duane Brown to slide into OG and not be overpaid. Maybe it’s entirely possible for the Texans to grab an OT in round 1 after all.
Oh, it's possible, baby!!!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Davis
There is no replacement for Johnson, but Davis did step up when AJ went down. There may have been some desperation to lock him in at the time.
Who are you guys calling Ragdoll, Myers? I know he could crush me with his left pinky, but I wish we had a bigger, stronger center. (That’s what she said) I probably just don’t understand the value he brings.
What about Sproles? He could replace Davis in the return game and obviously be an additon to the backfield. Too much money?
I believe Bennett will step up. What happened after his rookie year? Was he not as good as I thought? Why can’t Reeves turn and look for the ball?
I'll answer the Ragdoll one....leave the Bennett/Reeves question for someone with more knowledge there
Chris Myers is Ragdoll because of how many times we saw him get blown up in the hole. Could he crush us? Yeah, but we’re not NFL DTs. A lot of us are hoping to get a center (Florida’s Maurkice Pouncey, Baylor’s JD Walton, or even Boston College’s Matt Tennant) in the draft. There’s even someone who’s been screaming for fossil Titans C Kevin Mawae.
As far as Sproles goes, what he’s best at (Screens) is what Slaton is best at. Also, apparently Washington is gonna throw a boat load of cash at him. While everyone agrees a RB should be added to the roster…no one agrees on who (LaDanian Tomlinson? Thomas Jones? Mike Bell? Ryan Mathews? Montario Hardesty? LeGarrett Blount? Anthony Davis?)
I can name 4 that will be there and a 5th that might be
Slaton, Foster, Henry and Johnson. Moats is a RFA, so we will know more on him soon.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
The Johnson uprising
has got me thinking we may actually shore up our lines early in the draft.
1-OT, 2-CB, 3-DT – works for me.
If 4 is an OC, we may be on to something.
Fill in the holes on the OL and make our current crop of RBs better.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
this was well written, makes me wish we had one for the jags….Bernard Pollard is amzing though, and DeMeco Ryans is the only guy i have ever seen pop MJD straight on….maybe you guys will get Earl Thomas in the Draft? youre pass rush is solid and so are the LBs…just need some OL help, and a buddy back to Slaton
Waber-Jaguar
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