McClain_on_NFL: Texans reached a contract agreement with KC G/C Wade Smith.
We didn't snag Smith the first time, but we eventually got him.
Wade only played 476 snaps in 2009, but he managed to rank 23rd at PFF at G. To put it in perspective, our top ranked guy at G was Chris White at 41st.
And, yes, I still want Rob Sims.
4 months ago
bigfatdrunk
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wonder what the money is...
i like the signing tho…
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Mar 10, 2010 5:31 PM CST reply actions
Oh...
We should probably wait for verification from the team before celebrating, all things considered.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
You don't trust McClain with your life?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
heh
No more than I’d trust him with my children.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I'm mostly sure the rumors of him eating children aren't true.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
nolander, blatantly steals my joke
that’s okay, it never gets tired….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
rly?
Sorry, I guess deviant minds think alike.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
not sure where i stole it from
Grind, maybe? Deviant minds….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Mar 10, 2010 10:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Not a sexy signing
But it certainly helps. Wonder what the contract terms are like. And it could still fall through since Pancakes broke the story…
by Mike Kerns on Mar 10, 2010 5:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Smith’s four-year deal includes $5.25 million in guaranteed money in the first year and averages about $3 million a season.
by Mike Kerns on Mar 10, 2010 5:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Wow
that’s a pretty hefty contract for a back up. Maybe they see him becoming the starting OC, but I’m still skeptical about the guy.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Or replacing Myers at C. Someone said something about them not liking Caldwell at C.
by Mike Kerns on Mar 10, 2010 5:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well the way I see it
Is there are 64 starting interior line positions in the nfl. If he can be #23 then that puts him in the top half which is def an upgrade.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
There is no doubt that he is an upgrade
many players would have been an upgrade compared to our interior linemen. But I’m wondering if it is worth that kind of contract. To put it in perspective, he’s earning more money than Duane Brown.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
Well
I could get into how he is a veteran and has more of a right to the money then a rookie who has never seen the field. Vast simplification of course.
3 mil a year can’t be that bad can it? As long as the signing bonus doesn’t screw us on the cap next year it shouldn’t really matter.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
It shouldn't matter if he's a starter
but if he doesn’t make it as a starter, then he’s an expensive backup.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
I think its a lock he starts.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
And that's another reason to not like this deal
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
23rd in the league?
Or 23rd among free agents?
by Nashmeister on Mar 10, 2010 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
6.25 guaranteed
according to Paul Kuharsky
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/19933/smith-increases-texans-interior-options
Get Rob Sims for a 4th rounder and call our O line finished?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
I’m in.
Farewell, Chester Pitts :(
by Mike Kerns on Mar 10, 2010 5:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Honestly
I’ve said it before, but if we pick Pitts back up and get Briesel back and move Caldwell to center, I would be find if we didn’t use any other picks on our line. Briesel/Pitts would be an upgrade over Studdard, Caldwell an upgrade over Meyers. We could do better, but it would be better then the line that let us throw for 4700 yards last year, and other position of needs could be addressed. I might even be OK with taking a high RB in such a scenario.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Get Rob Sims...
And still draft somebody in the top three rounds.
Always think ahead. Spencer broke his leg. Weary broke his leg. Pitts got ze microfracture. If we had drafted a first-day O-lineman every year, we’d be in much better shape right now.
by Nashmeister on Mar 10, 2010 10:31 PM CST up reply actions
So....
What does the O-Line look like next year with him? Brown, Smith/Studdard, Caldwell/Smith, White/Caldwell, Winston?
I’m open to any scenario in which Studdard and Myers are permanently removed from the rotation, honestly.
I'd guess
Brown – Studdard – Myers – Brisiel – Winston
Caldwell, Butler, Smith, and White off the bench.
Which, yeah, it’s not optimal, but the team seems to not want Caldwell at C, and they’re too damn high on Studdard.
Optimal (for me):
Brown – Caldwell – Smith – Brisiel – Winston
Studdard, White, Myers, and Butler off the bench.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Even if
Studdard suddenly learned to be an NFL quality guard, I could still never forgive him for his association with Shirtless Vince Young.
Scouting
Scouting shows Smith can’t handle the big bullrushers, he’s more finesse, likes the angles. I think he’d have the same problems as Ragdoll at Center.
Studdard
I thought he was the worst OL I saw last year except for Max Unger. And Unger has huge upside.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 11, 2010 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Unger
After the combine last year, I was praying we picked up Unger…huh, guess I was wrong. You know, with my Studdard and Unger observations, I’m surprised the Texans haven’t asked me to scout offensive lineman for them.
Should qualify
He had a completely horrible game against us. I didn’t watch the Seahawks against anybody else. So, I should qualify that a little.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 11, 2010 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Max Unger : Stunts :: Dunta Robinson : Deep Balls
Just when Unger fucked up, he actually had to take some blame instead of getting lucky the ball was overthrown or dropped.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
might be right
He seems to grade out better at G than C or T, according to what I’ve seen. He’s not a paver, by any means, as well.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 11, 2010 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Key difference
Is that three of Ragdoll’s pounds are vagina.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 11, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Did we sign him yesterday next Tuesday?
Sounds like a solid pick-up, but I need more. I either need Rob Sims or want Mike Johnson drafted. Gotta give me more interior offensive line…something to push Caldwell to the center.
If all this Rampant speculation about moving Smith to guard is true our interior line is already 100X better assuming a healthy Briesel.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
It's better...
but as long as Ragdoll is out there then I’m not satisified.
I feel like there needs to be 1 more move …draft Pouncey/Walton/Johnson…sign Sims (Pitts probably doesn’t come back)….one more move to be happy.
Well I think Brisiel will be an upgrade over Studdard. My understanding is Brisiel is actually a pretty good run blocker and not so great at pass protection, and since our passing game was pretty good last year having him healthy is a plus.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
That still leaves Ragdoll
T – Brown, Winston, Stenavich, Butler (RFA)
G – Brisiel, Smith, Caldwell, Studdard
C – Myers, Helms
Either another guard to provide depth and free up Caldwell for Center or another Center that could outperform Myers.
Smith can play center. Caldwell could then stay at guard.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
four-year, $12 million contract, with $6.25 million in guaranteed money.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/marvez-texans-sign-ol-smith-031010
Can we assume he will be starting then?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
frenchy didnt start last year
I won’t assume it, just based on money, no.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
He did start
At the beginning of his contract.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
well he makes
more in 2009 and 2010 than 2008, and that money is not putting him on the field as a starter. Are you saying new contract = automatic starter, or more money = automatic starter?
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
You generally don't pay that much money to a guy
if your goal isn’t to have him start. Its really quite simple. It doesn’t make it 100 percent, but for that kind of money and the shit we have in the interior, the chances of his not starting are rather low.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
False Premise texanphil
You cannot compare these 2 things (Smith & Frenchy).
Frenchy didn’t start last year because he broke his arm (or leg…don’t remember) just before the season started. And by the time he came back (8 games?), there were 2 factors in play:
- Quin had established himself as the best CB on our roster
- Cunta was starting because he did have the highest salary of anyone on our Defense. Which may actually disprove your theory.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
He broke his left leg...
and you have solid point… GQ has proven himself as a rookie… and I dont think if he falls off a little anyone will be as mad as SS falling off. Steve’s lack of performance this season saddened me especially after his great season in 08
Dunta missed camp
and started because he was highest paid, according to you, and this somehow disproves my theory?
Yet, in the same reply you say Frenchy, although a high priced free agent acquisition making mucho more than Quin didn’t beat out the rookie. I thought Kubiak started guys based on the amount of money they made, not talent.
Which one is it, cuz it appears you are trying to have it both ways?
btw, if you think Kubiak, with his job on the line, didn’t have his two best CBs (in his opinion) on the field every game, I think you are mistaken.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
Don't be stupid
Players lose their starting jobs, even on a lucrative contract. But you don’t sign them to a high contract if your original intention is for them to ride the pine usually.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
except Dunta
he couldn’t possibly lose that starting job according to the post I replied to.
So if that is true, then Shake, and now you, are trying to have it both ways.
Make me smarter. Did Dunta start because of the money he made? Is it only CB1 that money = starting?
I think you sign the best talent available for whatever it costs to get it done, and you put the best players out on the field. Two separate concepts. Kubiak is not the GM.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
If you insist on being pedantic and retarded theres not much point in talking to you
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
so I'm stupid, pedantic, and retarded
got it.
Is that where you go when you realize you are losing an argument?
Not losing? ok, then answer my post.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
Yes, it disproves your comment
You said:
frenchy didnt start last year
I won’t assume it, just based on money, no.
which was in reply to this question in nolander’s comment:
Can we assume he will be starting then?
I said you cannot compare it to Frenchy, since his starting role was affected by injury. Before the injury, he most certainly was the starting CB ahead of Quin.
I also said that Dunta was starting because of the $$$, which could make nolander correct and possibly disprove your comment. I didn’t say it was definitive proof, but only that it could be construed as potential proof.
Exactly what about that sequence of statements is “having it both ways”?
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
the entire premise
is that the amount of money will determine if someone starts or not.
see nolander’s quote you quoted above. It says he made x amount, so he must be starting right? So, regardless of talent, and simply because of the money, he should be starting.
Can we agree that is the premise?
If so, then I’ll answer your last question about how you are trying to have it both ways.
Dunta came off an injury and started because he made a lot of money, according to Nolander and you.
Frenchy came off an injury and backed up a guy he made 8x more money than.
I say money had no part in who started at either position. You say money played a part in CB1, but not in CB2. Talent mattered in that position, apparently.
You two think Kubiak decided who started at the two CB positions based on two separate qualifications. Dunta for money, and Quin for talent.
Do you see now how you are trying to have it both ways?
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
hmmm
I think, normally, I’d agree with this premise. If we’re specifically talking about Dunta, then I don’t think it’s clear.
It seemed to me, and my opinion is blurred by his play, but it seemed that Dunta was in there so often in order to “prove” his salary. Or prove his worth. Especially during the Jets game, it was painfully obvious he wasn’t in game shape, but he continued to get snaps. I think it’s logical and thoughtful to ask why.
As far as Frenchy, I think it’s fair to say he was the one who paid for Dunta’s PT, as it wasn’t Quin’s doing. I think, especially for about the first 10 or so games, Quin was easily the best CB we had on the roster. It showed. This meant that, in order to get regular PT, Reeves had to beat out Dunta. This didn’t happen.
The simple fact is, we don’t know the motivation behind Dunta keeping his job all. Damn. Year. I think we’d likely agree it wasn’t deserved, but we don’t call those shots or understand the reasoning.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
kinda proves my point
Dunta beat out Frenchy at CB1, right?
In other words, Kubiak put the two CBs on the field every game that he thought would give him the best chance to win.
I realize none of us here know the motivation behind who he put out there. But if I was a bettin man, I’d bet he put the two guys out there that gave him the best chance to win, in his opinion. With input from the position coaches and Frank Bush.
That is all I’m trying to say with all of this. So Smith will start if he earns the position, not based on the contract he signed.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
Revisionist History much?
Dunta came off an injury and started because he made a lot of money, according to Nolander and you.
Dunta did NOT start when he came back from his injury, which was midway through the 2008 season. He was introduced in pre-game, but he was not starting.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
ok, strike that
you got me.
Now address the topic at hand. Lets talk about 2009 only.
Do you have any response to the rest of it, disregarding my error?
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
2009
The 2 highest paid CBs would have been starting, had Frenchy not gotten injured. He was slated to start pre-injury….but we never got to see he & Dunta starting simultaneously in pre-season due to Dunta growing a huge camel-toe.
And when Frenchy came back midway into the season, he did not start….much like Dunta in 2008.
But before we start pulling hair and scratching each others’ eyes out, let’s go back to my original statement:
…Which may actually disprove your theory.
So I’m not saying this situation is absolute proof….just that there may be some truth to what Nolander threw out there.
But to help his theory, I would certainly introduce the case of “BRB vs. Travis Johnson”. Because there is no way that he was our most talented DT in 2008 & early-2009.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
the two highest paid CBs would have been starting
is one way to look at it. That is the money side of it.
You said earlier though, that Dunta → Frenchy and Quin → Frenchy, so the talent side of it says that Kubiak put the two best CBs on the field.
Would have been < actually did, for arguments sake. The facts are the two highest paid CBs didn’t start, but the two best players did (by your evaluation).
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
If it means ragdoll is Closer to not playing
Then this is great. If not, then meh….
by AllenOU on Mar 10, 2010 6:16 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the official announcement in hope of this happening.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
I sent a tweet to Scurfield
But he’s never responded to me.
/sniff/
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
http://www.houstontexans.com/blog/index.asp?post_id=1003
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
We want him to come compete at the center/guard position for our football team. We think that’s going to be a very competitive position for our team this year, so we’ll see what he thinks of it."
-Kubiak
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
I hope he starts at OC
but that may be because I feel that we need to upgrade the LT position and move Duane to LG.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
I don't necessarily disagree
I just don’t see that actually happening. Maybe Dennison can have a bigger influence though.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
By very competitive
Does he mean a yawning pit of despair?
Question
Anybody still want Sean Jones? I remember MDC was a big fan last year and even though he had a bit of a down year I think we should give him a look
How about Ryan Lilja?
Whats would it take to sign that guy?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
His last contract was 5 year, $20 mil
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 6:45 PM CST up reply actions
He was ranked 7th on pff, and all the Colts fans on StampedeBlue where shocked he was cut so he might worth a look.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
For comparison
The chiefs let Wade Smith walk and are now looking into Lilja. For one mil more per year, maybe we should have signed Lilja over Smith. Or at least looked at him before signing Smith…
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 8:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I actually like
that the Chiefs let him go.
We know how well their new staff evaluates talent. See Pollard, Bernard.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
Also
Their fans seem to be pretty upset by it, and I saw a couple of them call him their best OL.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
We also know
how much their O-line sucks. I guess fair trade
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
we take Pollard
for us taking Smith?
I’m confused.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
Sorry.
I hit reply at the wrong spot. The fair trade thing was to BFD saying that we possibly got the Chief’s best O-lineman, so is that cause for celebration when they ranked 30th in run blocking and 25th in pass blocking by FO standards?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
I recall
StampedeBlue complaining about the right side of that offensive line and looking for upgrades during the season last year.
They also
Where completely shocked when they cut him, and not in a happy way.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Only when the "media" is out to get them
So they can martyr themselves.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
But Reggie Wayne is sooooooooooooooooooooooo much better then AJ, the Mainstream Media is just out to get us because we are whiny fat humps.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
by nolander on Mar 11, 2010 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
He was not
That great as a run blocker last year. If he wants to come here cheap then sure, but some team will overpay him because he’s been on the Colts for so long.
His last contract was 5 year, $20 mil
That’s one mil more a year than we are paying Wade Smith.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Hey
I’m not exactly in love with Smith either (especially since last week we were talking about possibly getting Stephen Neal), but I’ve seen Lilja play and he’s really not that good of a run blocker. Pass protection he’s good with a QB who’s a hall of famer, so he’s got that.
I'll add that we are mainly a pass happy offense.
Sure, we live off of the play action, but the Colts do quite a bit of play action as well. I’m not saying that Lilja is the answer either, but I would have liked to have seen him come in for a visit before we signed a guy, especially if we are going to pay one of them as a starter.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
Kubiak on Wade Smith:
“We think he has a legitimate chance to start inside. We didn’t guarantee him anything about a starting job.”
PFF has Chris Myers ranked 8th out of C
wat?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
PFF's center rankings are all over the place.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
that is 8th
on the Texans roster
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
by texanphil on Mar 10, 2010 8:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Very happy with this
Because I assume it takes us out of the “first rounder on a interior linemen” sweepstakes.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Funny
This is why I DONT like it. Get some fucking top notch talent for god sake. We need some fucking top 50 talent on the interior. I mean WTF.
Maybe in the second or even third we can find someone, but I hope this guy starts at center
Seems like adding more average talent to our average at best oline.
by AllenOU on Mar 10, 2010 8:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
My thoughts exactly
+trips up Rivers as he does his chicken dance….+
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I just don't think it's that hard to find good interior linemen in the middle rounds.
First round picks need to be at positions of greater impact. Unless of course it’s a trade down.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
and I think this signing signals Smithiak agrees with you.
We only lose Pitts from last year’s squad, so now we’re back to full strength. The draft will supply quality depth or fresh starters. Not 1st and 2nd round OL needs because we lost Pitts.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
To clarify
I would love if they got a first round OT.
Just not OG or C.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
So you want to use our best draft pick
To draft someone who plays the same position as our two best offensive lineman?? That sounds like a great plan. While we are at it we should draft a MLB in the 2nd and a QB in 3rd.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 10, 2010 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
Duane Brown still can't pass block worth a damn
In case you hadn’t noticed. You know how we lose whenever we play the Colts? Part of that is him getting molested by Dwight Freeney on every play. Drafting a tackle and moving him inside to guard makes a lot of sense to me.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rivers is coming around!!!
If only Smithiak would jump on that thought…
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
and if they miss on a T again what happens??
I understand that Brown still struggles with pass blocking, but most OL need a few years to develop. He is only entering his 3rd year and thats year that is the judgement year for most lineman. I dont think the FO will invest another high pick on the exact same position as 2 years ago, especially with all the other pressing needs we have. With the signing of Smith and the coaching staffs confidence in Studdard, I dont think they will move Brown to compete with them while hoping we got it right at the position Brown was already in.
All LTs get molested by Freeney every play.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 10, 2010 9:57 PM CST up reply actions
Oh I don't at all consider it LIKELY that they'll do that.
I just think it would be smart for them to do so.
Brown had a few years to develop. He went from abysmal to merely bad. I don’t think there is all that much precedent for him to continue improving.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
A few years?
He played one year of OT in college and two in the NFL. I’m not opposed to drafting an OT, but going into this year, Duane Brown will have just as much experience at OT as most rookies.
by Nashmeister on Mar 10, 2010 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
TH has it right
Every game that he played in 2009, Freeney had at least 1 sack.
Freeney and Mathis combined for 3 sacks in 2 games (Freeney only played 1) against the Texans.
Corrected
Freeney’s back-up also had a sack off of Brown.
All 4 sacks against Indy came off the edges.
Freeney has been kept in relative check in some games.
He had 4 hurries all by himself in the first game against the Texans.
Granted the point stands that he does molest everyone. But we need to find someone who can keep that number much lower.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 10:14 PM CST up reply actions
I don't disagree.
I wouldn’t complain if we went LT in round 1. Investing in the OL is never a bad idea considering how much of a difference Schaub makes to this team.
Wait
So Duane Brown can’t stop arguably the best pss rusher in the game…what a bastard. Let’s cut him.
by Mike Kerns on Mar 10, 2010 11:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sigh, okay
I used Dwight Freeney as an example because we have to deal with him twice a year, thus marking the importance of having a good pass protection left tackle. Here is a list of other players that Duane Brown could not block this year:
Richard Seymour
Derrick Harvey
Antwan Odom
Justin Smith
Aaron Schobel
Kyle Vanden Bosch
Eric Foster
Are we done picking nits in my Freeney thing yet?
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 1:20 AM CST up reply actions
And here is a list of people Ryan Clady could not block this year:
Tully Banta Cain
Larry English
Andre Carter
Tamba Hali
Dwight Freeney
Trent Cole
Glenn Dorsey
PFF shows Clady, a Pro Bowler drafted 14 spots ahead of Brown, allowed 8 sacks last season. Duane Brown only allowed 7. 8 other LTs who played 75% of snaps allowed more sacks than Brown including Bryant McKinnie, Flozell Adams and Jermon Bushrod; all starting LTs for playoff teams. The other playoff starting LTs who played 75% or more were D’Brickashaw Ferguson at 6 allowed, Marcus McNeill at 6 and Andrew Whitworth. I know stats dont tell the whole story, but they do tell a story.
Brown looks horrible at times and the other times you dont notice him, and thats what you want. He’s been in the league 2 years and he’s only been playing LT for 3 years. Im not opposed to drafting a o-lineman in the 1st, but let Brown get some more time before you yank him out of the LT slot.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 11, 2010 2:13 AM CST up reply actions
Matt Schaub is much better at getting rid of the ball than Kyle Orton
Check the pressures. You’ll notice I didn’t come up with a list of guys who got sacks against him.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 3:25 AM CST up reply actions
Just sayin'
You are mighty quick to give up on a 1st round draft pick when he allowed less sacks than much higher rated players at his position did. And the “getting rid of the ball faster” argument gets used both ways. If a person likes the QB they use the “he gets rid of it faster” or the “OMG The O-Line sucks!” argument. If they dont like the QB it’s “he hangs onto the ball too long.”
I’m not saying that Duane Brown is the end all be all. But I think he is serviceable enough to NOT draft O-Line in the 1st round this year.
FWIW...
I agree with Kerns, as much as I respect what Rivers does and thinks.
When I watch Brown, I see a few holes that can most likely be corrected with coaching and experience, and I see a whole lot of stuff I like. I’m more than willing to give him 2 more years before passing any kind of judgement about replacing him. That said, I’m ALL FOR more talent on the roster. And OL is on the roster.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Mar 11, 2010 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I also think....
Many people’s opinionations on Brown are regurgitations of someone else’s biased or uninformed opinion.
the worst thing about these blogs is that a shit ton of doo-doo info is passed along, even though there’s plenty of non-poop circulated.
there’s my scat post of the day.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Mar 11, 2010 2:05 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
You just used
“shit,” “doo-doo,” and “poop,” with one of them as a friggin’ adjective, in the same sentence. I am highly impressed
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 11, 2010 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I farted while reading this
Thought you should know.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I think you Brown believers are optimists.
Then again, I said the same thing last year, and he improved from dreadful to just bad.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Jacoby's tweets
Kill brain cells.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 11, 2010 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think we can give Duane Brown much more time to see if he can be a NFL LT. It may be time for him to move to OG. And since he has the size of an OG and is paid pretty low, I think it would be a good move.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind seeing Rivers do a feature on this very subject
maybe with a poll attached to it…
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Mar 10, 2010 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm a good delegater...lol!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Can we then
make Rick Smith read it?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 10, 2010 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think 2 years is too short
There is a reason baseball, basketball and hockey have minor league systems. Most people cant immediately adjust to playing professionally and need time to develop. Only giving our 1st round pick two years to show what he can do is a waste of a draft pick, especially a lineman since their adjustment period us usually longer than a skill position player (minus QB) or a CB/S
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 10, 2010 10:26 PM CST up reply actions
Okay
I understand your thinking and if everything goes as expected there will be a 1st round OT available at 20, IMO.
On Wade Smith. The Texans are paying him starter money and he is really only a depth guy, a backup. It is a bad signing IMO, possibly even desperate.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Re: Smith
He had some bad games at LT this year, but PFF loves him at RG. He played well down the stretch there. Was also very good at RG in 2008.
Not a sexy signing, but he definitely qualifies as an upgrade to me.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 9:54 PM CST up reply actions
Time will tell
He’s on the team so we all have to give the guy a chance. Just that past performance doesn’t jump out at me saying to pay him this kind of money. I expect him to start for that money. Is he Pitts’ replacement?
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I think that's the logical theory
Brown-Smith-Myers-Caldwell-Winston
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 10, 2010 10:07 PM CST up reply actions
Okay, did I hear that right?
Are you saying that Studdard is no longer the starting LG? Oh, this is making more sense, now. Okaaaayyyy….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
My comment wasn't meant as a shot at rivers in any way
I also agree guards can be found later.
BUT
the texans haven’t been very successful in that area. You can only ignore it for so long, and I think if this signing prevents us from drafting a top talent at the G spot, it might ultimately cost kubiak his job and us a playoff birth.
This seems desperate to me and I am fucking pissed off.
Offensive and defensive line are the difference between a good team and a great team, and it looks like we are settling for being just a good team
I’m fucking HOT right now. Time to go pound the girlfriend…
by AllenOU on Mar 10, 2010 9:59 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Impact?
Ask Shaun Alexander and Adrian Peterson how big an impact Steve Hutchinson makes. Or somebody like Alan Faneca. Seriously, if the scouts identify somebody as an absolute badass, it shouldn’t matter what position they play (barring long-snapper, punter, etc.). And as for interior offensive line—it’s a position that costs an arm and a leg to sign in free agency. Why not get a guy on a rookie contract if you think he’s genuinely good? We’re not picking in the top ten any more. 20th overall isn’t a huge reach to take the best OG in the draft.
by Nashmeister on Mar 10, 2010 10:37 PM CST up reply actions
We don't even need a 1st round OG
All of the OGs, Smith aside cause I don’t know, are 6th round picks or undrafted scrubs. Not counting UFA Pitts, only Brown, Winston, Caldwell, and Butler were drafted round 3 or earlier.
I’d be thrilled with Alabama’s Mike Johnson or Arkansas OG Mitch Petrus in round 3/4 let alone a guy like Iupati.
Didn't we just sign a pretty okay guard for nothing?
Isn’t that the point of this thread?
Look, you’re assuming that the guy we get is a superstar just because he’s a first round guard. Okay, what if he turns out to be sorta average? What if he’s Davin Joseph? What if he’s Matt Stinchcomb? Kendall Simmons? Mo Collins? If you look at the big picture, some picks are going to be just solid players instead of stars. I think it’s easier to find a solid guard for cheap than it is to find a solid tackle. Ergo, I favor the tackle in the first round since odds are he’s going to have a pretty similar rating on the draft board.
I’m not saying we should never take a guard or a center in the first round. I’m saying all things being equal, I’d lean towards other positions.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
Then the scouts didn't do their job.
We could just as easily end up with an average DT or CB (in fact, I’d say the odds are much higher of that happening).
But if you truly identify a can’t-miss prospect, then it shouldn’t matter if he’s an interior lineman. Can you find a decent OG in free agency or in the later rounds? Sure. But that applies to every position in football. Hutchinson was the 17th overall pick. Faneca was 26th overall. Mankins was 32nd. There’s no law against taking an OG in the first. If Iupati is legit, then let’s party.
Hmm, from scouts' inc
“Smith had been pretty much a career backup up until he started seven games in 2008. He is athletic with good short-area quickness, agility, balance and body control. His most glaring weakness is his inability to stop powerful bull rushers on the inside. He understands angles and can react to movement and adjust to counter moves. He is more of a finesse blocker than a road-grader. He gives the Chiefs solid depth in that he can back up multiple positions.”
We definitely like us some people who can’t stop powerful bull rushers up in the inside. But he sounds like a good fit for a zone blocking scheme, I guess? (Also, he started 9 of the last 11 games for the Chiefs in 2009, but didn’t start the first five, so I’m guessing this might be at least a year old).
oh also
this guy is getting more money than the Chiefs gave to Thomas Jones for a 2 year deal. Is this guy going to help the team more than Jones would have? Or maybe this indicates we’re leaning towards going RB early in the draft, and don’t want to spend on a pick on interior offensive line?
Love the signing
I don’t know anything about the guy cept what I read on here, but I like filling holes in FA.
If we sign a CB and some WLB competition, well then our draft will have the chance to really improve this team.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
It's a finger in a dike
Mark my words. If the Texans do not address the O-line in the draft by taking a real player, they will be repeating their lousy play from a year ago. They need players, not backups.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
we had an interior O-line
full of backups last year, what are you talking about?
I do like that you think the offense was lousy last year. I am on record that the defense out-played them when it mattered pretty much all of 2009.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
by texanphil on Mar 10, 2010 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, we are in tune here
The O-line is full of backups and I am just expressing my dissatisfaction with the Wade Smith signing, because he is just another backup.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
"the defense out-played them when it mattered pretty much all of 2009."
That makes two of us.
by Nashmeister on Mar 10, 2010 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Wait....who?
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
The ROSENFAIL : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKAKE-uq-8&feature=related
If we signed pitts back
With this I would actually feel pretty good about the O-line.
The we can use the picks on CB and NT and a couple of TE’s just for good measure.
You can't fix Dumb or being a VYFB
Also,
I don’t like how much money this guy got. From all the Chiefs fans I’ve talked to he was basically a backup on the crappy side of their line, and a lot of them aren’t sure why a team would give him a multi-year multi-million dollar contract.
If the Texans think he can compete for a starting job, then more power to them, I just don’t see why they give 3mil/3years to a backup to one of the worst OL’s around.
Yep, too much for too little...
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I like how all the trust Smithiak has earned is quickly washed away...
when we sign a decently-rated Olineman.
some of you guys are really over-thinking this and you suck.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Mar 11, 2010 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Okay
Other than believing in Smithiak, tell us how good this pickup is. What position does Smith play other than benchwarmer? You think he starts? Where? Tell us, please.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Am I the Oline coach? Are you??
Are those honestly the questions you require answers to before you will be as unconcerned about this signing as you should be?
Admittedly, I don’t know much about the guy, but I’m betting you don’t either.
What a knob.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
As usual, you revert to your TROLL ways
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
And how is that trolling?
Merely pointing out that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about? Well, consider me the B.A. Barracus of Troll, then.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
.....
My comment wasn’t meant as a shot at rivers in any way
I also agree guards can be found later.
BUT
the texans haven’t been very successful in that area. You can only ignore it for so long, and I think if this signing prevents us from drafting a top talent at the G spot, it might ultimately cost kubiak his job and us a playoff birth.
This seems desperate to me and I am fucking pissed off.
Offensive and defensive line are the difference between a good team and a great team, and it looks like we are settling for being just a good team
I’m fucking HOT right now. Time to go pound the girlfriend…
by AllenOU on Mar 10, 2010 10:00 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Yes...
Talking about interior line play turns me on, too. And if you start talking about first step angle, I’m gonna lose it right here. Oh baby.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 10, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions
That's a little premature isn't it?
First step angle…
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Dammit
Well, it’s premature NOW.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 10, 2010 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
I need to Get fired up more often
After tonight though I might be single again….
Anyone have a hot daughter in here 20’s
by AllenOU on Mar 10, 2010 11:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Funny how I finally get internet connection on spring break in a third world country...
I think the amount of money dished out is cause Kubes has been high on this guy since his Denver days and the number of teams that were after him.
Seems like a numbers game to me and he was just tired of losing out on the dude.
Bottom line for me is this
This is the year. It’s put up or shut up.
And though I have disagreed with this for so long, I think I need to finally agree because it is the correct call.
Move brown to G, and get a LT.
New LT. Brown. New guy. Caldwell. Winston
but we all know brown will be the LT this year
the fact that this is year 5 for kubes, or 4 ????it’s fucking late so I’m half asleep and we are still debating about the fucking oline is just ridiculous. Shouldn’t be this much of an issue by now.
I can’t think of ANY team in the league weaker at DT, G, and C. It’s pathetic, especially considering how bad as the rest of the team can potentially be. Sans CB. Oh and the fucking kicker!!!!
I need some gin
by AllenOU on Mar 11, 2010 12:03 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I heard through the grape vine
Tebow’s new arm movement is actually his blocking and is going into the draft as an LT not a QB, he has even gained 100 lbs.
by Taco Joe on Mar 11, 2010 2:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i kind of like it
crappy photoshop for future crappy NFL QB
"Its like a silk bag filled with puppy ears"
Maybe
Could be fun checking out the gametapes of Jamaal Charles’ sick games at the end of the season last year, and take a look at what Smith did in those.. maybe we got a guy who can run-block
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
Putting Duane Brown in perspective
If I had time, I’d make this a real post. Alas….
Duane Brown was:
5th in most QB pressures allowed
6th in most QB hits allowed
T-17th in most sacks allowed
T-17th in most penalties
12th in worst pass blocker
All numbers via PFF.
Even if you say, hey, bunghole, PFF is a bunch of wankers and don’t know what they’re doing. And this is (I don’t think remotely) possible. However, the first four items are nothing more than a counting exercise, and Brown proved to be pretty damn bad.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
not mutually exclusive
Typically, the LT is charged with blocking the most talented pass rusher on the opposing defense. Can we all agree to that statement?
Now that we agree (see what I did there?), let us also concur that this statement is in no way an excuse by itself for a poor “statistical” performance.
However, I submit that when the QB holds the ball more than x seconds (3, 4, whatever the magic # is), then it is much more probable that the QB will be pressured/hit/sacked. Agree?
And since the LT is typically guarding the D’s player that is most capable of applying pressure/hit/sack to the QB, then the LT will indeed take the shitty stats that come with the QB holding the ball for more than x seconds.
Therefore, the stats of Duane Brown cannot be regarded as mutually exclusive from the time which Teh Schaub takes to get rid of the motherfucking football.
So he may or may not be “pretty damn bad” as an LT. These numbers/rankings alone cannot tell us any definitive answer on that. All they can tell us is that the combination of Duane Brown & Teh Schaub is pretty damn bad at allowing pressures/hits/sacks.
(And I haven’t even brought up the fact that our middle 3 OL trying to reclaim Jordan Black’s nickname by allowing the NT, UT, and Cover-T to collapse the pocket is also a part of this equation.)
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
by Shake on Mar 11, 2010 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Three man turnstile.
Sounds like a gay porno movie.
I agree on all points. A players stats depends on the level of competition that they face.
If you’re a LT that faces a high level of competition and you produce craptacular stats, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re a bad LT. And vice versa.
Very true
I submit that the Texans allowed very few sacks and quite a bit more hurries, along with charting evidence, that Schaub is beneficial to the line’s overall pass blocking numbers.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 3:56 PM CST up reply actions
Comparison of 2008 1st round tackles
Miami’s Jake Long; 2-time Pro Bowler, 1-time All Pro; plays at LT allowed 9 pressures, 5 hits, and 4 sacks
Denver’s Ryan Clady; 2-time Pro Bowler, 2-time All Pro; plays at LT allowed 22 pressures, 8 hits, and 7 sacks
Chicago’s Chris Williams; plays at LT/RT allowed 37 pressures, 11 hits, and 7 sacks
Kansas City’s Branden Albert; plays at LT allowed 18 pressures, 10 hits, and 7 sacks
Detroit’s Gosder Cherilus plays at RT allowed 26 pressures, 8 hits, 9 sacks
Carolina’s Jeff Otah plays at RT allowed 20 pressures, 4 hits, 5 sacks
Atlanta’s Sam Baker; plays at LT allowed 28 pressures, 5 hits, and 5 sacks
Housto’s Duane Brown; plays at LT allowed 36 pressures, 11 hits, and 7 sacks
Do with that what you will…just thought it’s worthwhile to see how he compares to his draft class.
This is last year's stats
Ryan Clady was a 1st team All Pro LT
Jake Long was a 2nd team All Pro LT (yup, even though he blew Clady away in pass protection, run blocking (according to PFF), and penalties.
That is via PFF.
For more comparison...their rookie years
In order of pressures, hits, and sacks
Long – 15, 9, 3
Clady (Second team All Pro) – 39, 7, 0
Williams – Back-up
Albert – 31, 8, 5
Cherilus – 23, 8, 5
Otah – 12, 1, 5
Baker – 8, 2, 1 (half a season)
Brown – 25, 15, 11
Weird
I’m still not seeing the part that shows other variables in the equation, like seconds after the snap that the pressures/hits/sacks happened….especially versus the mean of “good” plays.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
What I do with that is say
“Damn, Chris Williams is terrible too.”
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
What about looking at stats for LTs with QBs who hold the ball for a long time
For instance, Big Ben is known for hanging onto the ball/extending plays. I wonder how Max Starks compares to Duane Brown.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 11, 2010 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
Expanding on that level of competition concept,
lets look at who exaclty Duane Brown had to face this season with Duane’s stats (PFF) included:
Week 1: Vernon Gholston – Brown allowed 1 sack
Week 2: Kyle Vanden Bosch – 2 QB hits
Week 3: John Henderson – 1 sack, 1 hit
Week 4: Richard Seymour – 1 sack, 1 hit
Week 5: Calais Campbell – 1 hit
Week 6: Antwan Odom/Jonathan Fanane – 1 sack, 1 hit, 3 pressures
Week 7: Justin Smith – 6 pressures
Week 8: Aaron Schobel – 1 hit, 2 pressures
Week 9: Dwight Freeney – 2 sacks, 1 hit, 4 pressures
Week 11: Vanden Bosch/Jacob Ford – 1 hit, 3 pressures
Week 12: Robert Mathis/Josh Thomas – 1 sack, 5 pressures
Week 13: Quentin Groves – 1 hit, 5 pressures
Week 14: Darryl Tapp – 2 pressures
Week 15: James Hall – 2 pressures
Week 16: Randy Starks/Jason Taylor – 2 pressures
Week 17: Jarvis Green/Tully Banta Cain – 1 hit, 2 pressures
There are 9 Pro Bowlers on that list who accounted for most of the numbers against Brown. Brown only allowed two sacks to non pro bowlers and the numbers show improvement over the last 4 weeks of the season (albeit against lower quality competition), which also happens to be when we were playing our best football.
Vanden Bosch is now gone but he’s been replaced as a divisional foe by Aaron Kampman.
Brown will also face DeMarcus Ware, Andre Carter/Brian Orakpo, Trent Cole, Osi Umenyiora/Mathias Kiwanuka, Elvis Dumervil, Shawne Merriman, Richard Seymour and of course, Freeney. Make what you want of that, but at first glance it looks much more difficult than this season for D Brown.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 11, 2010 4:46 PM CST up reply actions
Left tackles often face good pass rushers.
I see.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 11, 2010 4:49 PM CST up reply actions
I don't agree to that.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 12, 2010 8:08 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I was going to do that.
Good Job digging for the stats.
Now compare it with the players that TDC listed above.
After realizing how much work I had to put in by doing that, I stopped.
I applaud the defense of Brown
but should we cut him some slack because he’s facing great talent or should we expect him to be great?
He has improved from garbage to okay, but do you feel comfortable seeing if Brown can grow/develop in 2010 (against those pass rushers) when it comes to Schaub’s health?
And that’s the question I hope Smith is asking himself. If he says yes, I’ll live with it, but I hope he’s taking a look at it given the pleathora of LTs in the 1st round.
I am hoping for competition
someone who is as good or better than brown, to compete with him during camp and hopefully give him a reason to get better.
Im more comfortable with Brown facing those players than I would be with any rookie
We shouldn’t cut him slack due to the competition because that is what his position sees every year. At the same time we shouldn’t expect him to be great because we dont need him to be great, we need him to be good and anything better than good is just a plus.
Hopefully Smith looks at the list of RE/ROLB we are facing next season and decides if he is more comfortable with Brown or a rookie. If he decides a rookie than I can live with that but it better be a 1st rounder. I think Brown is the right choice but I wouldnt be opposed to drafting a 3rd round LT and develop him for a year.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 11, 2010 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
On top of that
it’s an interesting year with all the RFAs. I think it opens the possibility of more trades. Take for instance, Jared Gaither. A huge LT who is only 23 years old and the Ravens only put a first round tender on him. Now I’m not sure that Smith will be targeting him or that he would fit our ZBS. But if there are none of the top OTs left in the draft, should we trade for Gaither?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 11, 2010 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
True
But he’s still in the bottom percentile of the other LTs who have to block RDEs.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Really?
Did you just go with the TL/DR method, since you are only replying to my 1st sentence or two?
Big Ben’s O-line probably has some pretty shitty statistics too….but he is known to hold the ball for more than 5 seconds quite often. And rape bitches when they aren’t looking.
I’m just saying that statistically, the sacks/hits/hurries don’t mean shit when they are only designated to be the responsibility of 1 person on the team.
I mean, how is this really different than the space-eating punter planetoid-sized NT discussion? A real NT will require 2 blockers more times than not, thus freeing up other players on D to “make a play”. But that NT will statistically look like shit compared to those around him, since they don’t yet hand out defensive assists in football.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
And rape bitches when they aren’t looking.
To be fair, it is much easier when they aren’t looking.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
To be fairer
There is no proof she wasn’t looking.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Statistically
She is at the bottom of the list for “looks applied”
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
which site
has that ranking?
If its that damn ProFootballRapists site, I’ve seen several articles that says that place is full of shit.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
by texanphil on Mar 12, 2010 9:24 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
can you post them?
From what I’ve seen, they seem to be gaining credibility.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I heard they
photoshopped a bathroom shot… killed their cred.
its all over the internet.
Dunta's weightspeed was too low
The scary part?
It’s not outside the realm of possibility that there would be exactly such a site. God bless the internets.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
Pretty much
We know there are issues with time. It’s part of our PA oriented offense.
But Winston grades out 8th among RTs. Relatively speaking, there’s a huge difference between he and Brown. Again, relatively speaking, Brown is in the bottom probably 8 or so among LTs. Winston has the same time issues to deal with.
I’m not comparing Brown to Winston, but I am comparing them against their peers.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Don't you love arguing w/ an engineer?
Personally, I fucking hate it.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Actually...
for an engineer, you argue like a lawyer.
(That’s a compliment. Most of the engineers who go to law school to become IP attorneys or whatever can’t argue for shit, and eventually they just start mumbling about compression ratios and disc coupling.)
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
Awesome
I can now qualify for 2 groups of people that most folks hate.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Do you hate poor people or just retarded people? :-p
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
by nolander on Mar 12, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Either way
Arkansas is fucked.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 13, 2010 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
gooooooooooooooooooooo
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
What is scary is that most of the DE's
Brown is facing next year are still young in the league
Demarcus Ware- 5th yr, 27 yrs old
Aaron Kampman- 8th yr, 30 yrs old
Andre Carter- 9th yr, 31 yrs old
Brian Orakpo- 2nd yr, 24 yrs old
Trent Cole- 5th yr, 27 yrs old
Osi Umenyiora- 7th yr, 28yrs old
Mathias Kiwanuka- 4th yr, 27yrs old
Elvis Dumervil- 4th yr, 26yr old
Shawne Merriman- 5th yr, 26yrs old
Richard Seymour- 9th Yr, 30 yrs old
Dwight Freeney- 8th yr, 30 yrs old
All of them are <30 yrs old (except Carter) <10 yrs in the League… so still in the prime of their ability. Orakpo is the only sophomore on the list, but he is a pro-bowler and a threat
I think you mixed up the "less than" sign with the "less than or equal to" sign
Kampman, Seymour, and Freeney are in the “less than or equal to” area.
The good thing about it is that we dont have to see Ware, Carter, Orakpo, Cole, Umenyiora, or Kiwanuka for another 4 years after this year. By then Cole, Ware, Umenyiora and Kiwanuka will be over 30 but Orakpo will be in his prime.
Also, its really nice to see “30 yrs old” next to Freeney’s name.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Mar 11, 2010 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
And true that @ freeney
I am glad he is finally to the point where most people think he is getting old for Foozball
OK, Shake
Using PFF’s numbers, I created a stat just for you: QBOuch/snap. Basically, on what percent of snaps does a player let the QB get sacked, hit, or pressured. In addition, I weighted them with sacks with three ouch points, hits worth two, and pressures worth one. Then, I turned this into a % of total snaps.
Using the minimum for PFF (25% of snaps), the average LT earned an ouch 6.04% of the time while a RT earned one 5.64%. So, there is a little bias toward LTs, but it’s not much.
Duane Brown gave up an OUCH 7.49% of the time, which ranked him 29th versus other LTs. To put it in perspective, there were 19 LTs who were above average (6.04%), led by Joe Thomas (2.56%), Jake Long (2.70%), and Sebastian Vollmer (2.76%). Levi Jones was, by 2% over Mario Henderson, the worst at 12.33%.
At RT, Damien Woody led the way at 1.89% with Eric Winston 13th at 4.8%. Allen Barbre was the worst at RT with 9.19%.
Versus his peers, according to this narrow set of stats, Brown ranked 29th our of 37th versus other LTs, or against his peers. This tells me we have a below average hole at LT, one which might be worth addressing in the draft.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 12, 2010 10:47 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Strangely
I actually like this…especially that you made up a name for it.
And again, I’m not saying that Brown is an above-average LT….or even average. I’m just saying that I have yet to see any meaningful statistical proof.
And there won’t be such proof, until the other major variable (time after snap) can be plugged into the equation. But this data is tough as shit to get your hands on. And thus, we are left with comparing numbers that may or may not be statistically valid.
So we just end up in the Offense’s version of the “leaving DBs to cover for to long by having a shitty D-line” discussion. We know that it is connected, but cannot prove it statistically due to the data availability (or lack thereof).
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Can't argue the details
We could go back and look at the games, but it sounds like a looooooooot of effort.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 12, 2010 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Werd
Let’s just get some Shiner and BBQ instead.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
I could get Shiner in CO
You can’t get it in AZ?
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
So what's the fix?
We know how our offense is more effective with Schaub in, so if Brown gives up an OUCH 7.49% of the time, something must be done to lower the probability of Schaub being injured.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 12, 2010 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
A) Hope he gets better like he did from year 1 to year 2
B) Replace him with Jared Gaither (trade 1st round pick to Baltimore) and push Brown to LG.
C) Draft a rookie with the 1st round draft pick and push Brown to LG
D) Keep a TE/RB in to help him double his man.
Interesting
Brown’s OUCH was 10.24% in 2008. That’s a pretty big improvement from 2008 to 2009. If he can make a similar improvement, he’d be about average. Pretty big if, but it’s something.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 12, 2010 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
If he cut it down by 1.5%
He’s average and that’s not as big a jump from 10.24 to 7.49
Gaither is seen as expendable because they have Oher to play LT. At least, that’s how I view the situation. They would rather keep 1…and use the other to bring in another 1st round pick which in turn makes the entire team better. Plus, they don’t have to dole out big bucks to keep both Gaither and Oher.
I have to say that sometimes it should not be about the money
The Ravens are a power running team. They live off running the ball. So if you have solid bookends, why break that apart, especially when Gaither is a monster of a man. I would pay them both because it ensures that you are set on the outside for at least ten years.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 12, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
Oh, I agree...
However, that offense is changing. Rice is good in the screen, they have added Boldin and Stallworth to help Flaaco. Gaither’s still a helluva pass blocker, but they drafted Oher for the blindside. Why pay so much for a RT when you can get by with a cheaper guy and trade Gaither for another 1st round to help replace some parts?
It’s kind of why I’m on the “Trade OD” bandwagon because it’d be more beneficial to grab (example) Cincy’s 2nd and 5th rounders so we could plug more holes while also not falling off too much due to the capable JD and Thor and taking those dollars and helping out deals to guys like DeMeco or BP….or even get Schaub a new, long-term deal.
I did not know they had someone to replace Gaither
If they do, then it makes more sense just like trading OD. Also, I don’t think Cincy would be interested in OD. I’ve heard they need a blocking TE over a catching one. However, the Ravens and Patriots are looking for that safety net kind of TE.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 12, 2010 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Gaither was 4th at 3.13%
Which makes his situation even more confusing.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 12, 2010 12:13 PM CST up reply actions
From what I got reading around the Raven's blog
is that they want Oher to move to LT because he’s a little more athletic. Some of them think that Gaither has reached his potential, but when he’s above average, I don’t know what more you could want.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 12, 2010 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Now Jared Gaither
is good for Baltimore’s power running style. But would he fit in with our ZBS and is he athletic enough to move for screens and such?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Mar 12, 2010 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
QBOuch/snap
is fucking brilliant.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
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