A Quick Review of What We Know About Peyton Manning
[Author's note: We didn't do a whole lot of Super Bowl or post-Super Bowl coverage here. This is to be expected, I suppose, as the Texans were not involved in the game. No, it's true! You can look it up! What follows is a post that I started soon after that game, but did not finish until recently. So, yeah, timing-wise, if it seems a little odd, that's why.]
I've never been accused of being impartial and unbiased when it comes to The Fivehead, neé Peyton Manning. I loathe him, and I've done so since January 2, 1998, the day the Manning-led Vols -- a team that would win the national title the following season when led by the redoubtable Tee Martin -- rolled over easier than a co-ed with daddy issues in front of the Nebraska Cornhuskers. This, coupled with Scott Frost crying like a blogger who got spurned by a more popular writer in the Super Bowl media center, got Tom Osborne half of a national championship as a parting gift and, by extension, boned Michigan. 1
ANYWAY...I mention all of this as sort of an up-front full disclosure. What follows could be construed as a hatchet job or an attempt to kick a fanbase while they are down. (Avoiding the appearance of piling on is also why I waited a while to post this.) While I'm not above such shenanigans, that's not the point here. Instead, the point is to draw attention back to a single premise that (incorrectly, in my opinion) fell by the wayside of conventional wisdom after the Colts won a Super Bowl:
Peyton Manning was and remains to this day a mediocre playoff QB.2
Manning's 9-9 playoff record is well-documented at this point, but nevertheless let's start big picture.
- Joe Montana: 16-7 (11 appearances, 4 titles)
- Tom Brady: 14-4 (7, 3)
- Terry Bradshaw: 14-5 (9, 4)
- John Elway: 14-8 (10, 2)
- Brett Favre: 13-11 (12, 1)
- Troy Aikman 11-4 (8, 3)
- Roger Staubach: 11-6 (9, 2)
- Bart Starr: 9-1 (6, 5 (incl. pre-Super Bowl titles))
- Kurt Warner: 9-4 (5, 1)
- Donovan McNabb: 9-6 (6, 0)
- Jim Kelly: 9-8 (8, 0)
- Peyton Manning: 9-9 (10, 1)
- Ben Roethlisberger: 8-2 (4, 2)
- Jim Plunkett: 8-2 (4, 2)
- Steve Young: 8-6 (11 (7 as starter), 2 (1 as starter))
- Dan Marino 8-10 (10, 0)
- Ken Stabler: 7-5 (7 (6 as starter), 1)
- Phil Simms: 6-4 (5, 1)
- Bob Griese: 6-5 (7, 2)
- Fran Tarkenton: 6-5 (5, 0)
- Craig Morton: 5-5 (7 (5 as starter), 0)
- Danny White: 5-5 (8 (5 as starter), 1 (0 as starter))
- Mark Brunell: 5-5 (7 (5 as starter), 1 (0 as starter))
- Steve McNair: 5-5 (5, 0)
- Warren Moon: 3-7 (7, 0)
Obviously, this is a list of QBs with a minimum of 10 playoff decisions as a starter in order of wins and, where there's a tie in wins, winning percentage. While not the most dispositive metric we could use, I think it is a nice rough sketch of the discussion. Manning's .500 record, were we to sort by winning percentage alone, puts him in the Morton/White/Brunell/McNair group, just ahead of Dan Marino and Warren Moon. On a list with this broad of a spectrum of QB talent, as Marino/Moon illustrate, falling in with that group isn't fatal to your legacy, but it's definitely a knock against your all-time greatness. I mean, every Marino conversation generally ends with one person saying something to the effect of "statistically, he's great, but...." Now, granting that Manning has a ring, while Marino and Moon do not (the kids call that "foreshadowing"), I still don't think it's a stretch to say that Manning has been less than stellar in terms of wins and losses in the playoffs.
"But wait," you might be saying. "The losses weren't all Manning's fault! That's not a fair comparison!" Ok...let's look at Manning's lines in each of his playoff losses.
1999--Loses 16-19 to Tennessee (divisional round). 19-42, 227 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT, 1 TD rush. Indy won the AFC East at 13-3, with the best offense in the AFC, and they had a first-round bye. Indy led the Titans 9-6 at halftime, then mustered a whopping six yards in the third quarter. Tennessee never trailed after Eddie George ripped off a 68-yard TD early in the third.
2000--Loses 17-23 (OT) to Miami (wild card round). 17-32, 194 yards, 0 TD, 0 INT. Indy was the #6 seed at 10-6. Miami had turnovers (all INTs) on three straight drives in the first half, and Indy led 14-0 at the half. In the second half, Jay Fielder improved on his 5-14, 42 yards, first half, completing 14 of 20 for 143 and adding another 43 rushing. In overtime, Miami won the toss but was forced to punt on their first possession. On their first OT possession, Indy faced a 3rd and 12 wherein Manning completed an 11-yard pass to Marvin Harrison, but Vanderjagt (possibly drunk) missed the 49-yarder and Miami scored on its next drive.
2002--Loses 41-0 to New York (wild card round). 14-31, 137 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT. Indy missed the playoffs after the 2001 season, but returned as the #5 seed after the 2002 season. On the fifth play of the game, the Jets scored on a 56-yard screen pass to FB Richie Anderson (!), and they never looked back. Indy trailed 24-0 at the half. Manning saved both of his INTs for the fourth quarter, throwing one on the third snap of the period and again on the Colts' next possession.
2003--Loses 24-14 to New England (AFC champ game). 23-47, 237 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT. The #3 seed after winning the AFC South, Indy destroyed Denver (Manning had a perfect QB rating that game) and beat Kansas City to get to the AFC title game, where, to be perfectly blunt, Manning imploded. New England scored a TD on the opening drive; Manning responded with an INT. New England scored a FG on their second possession; Manning responded with an INT on the very first Colts' play of that possession. At the close of the first half, Indy trailed 0-15. After Indy scored a rushing TD on their first second-half possession, New England answered with a FG to make it 18-7. Indy went three-and-out (two incompletions). New England added another FG, making it 21-7. Manning responded with his third INT. Walt Harris picked off Tom Brady at the goalline early in the fourth, giving Indy a second life. Manning responded with his fourth INT. Manning threw his only TD midway through the fourth, bringing the game to 14-21. Indy tried an onside kick and failed, but held New England and forced them to punt, meaning Indy had one more shot. Manning threw four straight incompletions. New England added a FG, extending their lead to 10. Manning threw three straight incompletions, then completed a seven-yard pass on fourth-and-ten. Ballgame.
2004--Loses 20-3 to New England (divisional round). 27-42, 238 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT. Again the #3 seed, Indy again destroyed Denver in the first round, leading to a second-round matchup with New England. The game was a puntfest in the first quarter, with New England breaking through first on a FG in the early second quarter. The Pats added another FG before Manning led the Colts into FG range as the first half expired, with Indy going into the lockerroom down 3-6. The teams traded punts on their first second-half possessions, then Tom Brady found David Givens for a TD to increase New England's lead to 10. Tedy Bruschi added another TD shortly thereafter, and Rodney Harrison sealed the win by picking off Manning with 12 seconds remaining.
2005--Loses 21-18 to Pittsburgh (divisional round). 22-38, 290 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT. This game is most memorable because of Large Benjamin's fluke tackle of Nick Harper following Harper's recovery of a Bettis goalline fumble. Coming into this game off a first-round bye as the AFC's #1 seed, Manning did not play poorly, though he struggled to find a rhythm in the first half as Pittsburgh rolled out to a 14-3 lead and continued that struggle into the third. It wasn't until Pitt was up 21-3 that Manning locked in, hitting Clark for a 50-yard TD and leading a solid drive on Indy's subsequent possession that resulted in a James TD run. (Worth noting, however, is that Indy forced Pitt to punt with the score 18-21, only to see Manning go 2-yard pass, sack, incomplete, sack for a turnover on downs. But I digress.)
2007--Loses 28-24 to San Diego (divisional round). 33-48, 402 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT. The Colts came into the playoffs with a first-round bye as the #2 seed in the AFC. They led 10-7 at halftime, though a Manning INT with 25 seconds (a) killed what could have been a bigger lead and (b) would have resulted in a 14-10 San Diego lead at the half if Cromartie's pick-6 wasn't nullified by a stupid hold on Eric Weddle. San Diego came out and scored a TD on their first possession of the second half, which Manning answered by throwing his second INT. No damage was caused (relatively speaking) by this pick, as SD went three-and-out. With just over 3 minutes left in the third quarter, Manning hit Wayne for a TD, only to see SD match it before the quarter expired. Manning's fourth-quarter possessions went thusly: 2-3 (6 yds), punt; TD; 4-9 (43 yds, but 5 straight incompletes), turnover-on-downs; 1-4 (5 yds), turnover on downs. Ballgame.
2008--Loses 23-17 (OT) to San Diego (wild card round). 25-42, 310 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT. Indy, as a wild card, slotted into the #5 seed. Indy trailed 14-10 at halftime, but the only scoring in the third quarter was a 72-yard Manning-to-Wayne TD, giving Indy a 17-14 lead going into the fourth. (That quarter also featured an incomplete pass on 4th-and-1 on Indy's first possession.) San Diego tied the game with 30 seconds remaining, and they won 6:22 into overtime without Manning ever touching the ball.
2009--Loses 31-17 to New Orleans (Super Bowl). 31-45, 333 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT. You know how this one played out, so all I'll say is Jake's boy, Malcolm Jenkins, nearly intercepted a Manning pass two plays before Porter took his to the house. It's hard to pin blame for the loss on a line like Manning had. I've heard a lot of "if Garçon3 doesn't drop that pass" or "if Wayne hangs on" excuses for why this loss isn't at least partially Manning's fault. Whatever. He came out and threw a pick-6 on the one drive that Indy absolutely, positively could not have a turnover. He hadn't been picked off all night, then he comes out and throws a near-pick to Jenkins followed two plays later by a game-clinching INT. If you want to pretend like his line in a vacuum somehow trumps that level of screw-up, I can only assume that you were never interested in this discussion anyway. (By the way, "INSERT WR NAME dropped a lot of passes in that loss to INSERT TEAM THAT BEAT THE COLTS" is a standard refrain when trying to explain away the losses. It must be really nice to get all the credit when the team wins and have several Mad-Libs-style excuses ready to be deployed if you lose.)
So, what do we have? Six years where the Colts lost their first playoff game ('99, '00, '02, '05, '07, '08). An average line in his losses of 23-35, 263 yards, .67 TD, 1.11 INT. Is that a horrible line? Meh...not really, at least not in terms of yardage/completion percentage. But in terms of TD-INT ratio? Yeah, that's bad. That's really bad, in fact, for a guy who is supposed to be one of the greatest QBs of all time. (For comparison, Manning's regular season ratio is 1.9 TD / .94 INT.) What else do we have? Five games under 250 yards, compared to four games over that admittedly arbitrary cutoff. But, hey, there is obviously an upward trend in terms of completion percentage and total yardage, so he's got that going for him. Which is nice.
The most common defense you hear when some SuperFan184 gets annoyed by your knocking of Manning's playoff record is "it's not HIS fault that the Colts' defense was so bad for all those years." To hear the apologists tell it, Manning has never had a defense that was better than absolutely abysmal. If true, that would certainly go a long way toward redeeming Peyton.
Unfortunately, at least for the person asserting it, that excuse is completely and demonstrably false. Here are the scoring defense and yards/game defense rankings.
Year----scr---ydg
1998---31---31
1999---17---15
2000---15---21
2001---31---29
2002---7-----8
2003---20---11
2004---19---29
2005---2-----11
2006---23---21
2007---1-----3
2008---7-----11
2009---8-----18
In terms of scoring, that's two years when it was horrible, one year you might call bad (23), four years right around average, and FIVE years in the top ten (including one year as the best scoring D when the Colts still lost their first playoff game). In terms of yards/game, it's slightly worse, with three horrible (>/= 29th), four around average (15, 21, 21, 18), and five in or right outside the top ten (8, 11, 11, 3, 11). You've also got Manning's singular Super Bowl title coming in a year that his defense was subpar, which kind of flies in the face of "its always the defense's fault."
You know what you DON'T see? A consistently bad defense that would obviate Manning of the blame for his own poor performance.
Still not convinced? Check Football Outsiders' rankings, both overall rank and adjusted rank:
Year: rnk, adj
1998: 25, 28
1999: 27, 25
2000: 23, 23
2001: 29, 29
2002: 16, 17
2003: 13, 15
2004: 19, 17
2005: 5, 8
2006: 25, 24
2007: 2, 4
2008: 10, 8
2009: 16, 19
Result? Well, it's not quite as damning as the raw rankings, but you still have five bad-to-very-bad seasons ('98, '99, '00, '01, '06; four of which were his first four years, which Manning apologists like to use "he was young" as an excuse for as well), four right around average ('02, '03, '04, '09), and three in the top 10 ('05, '07, '08). In case you are a lawyer and math ain't your thang, that's seven of the eleven seasons with an average-or-better defense.
Let's cross-reference what we have so far.
1998--bad defense, missed playoffs
1999--average-to-bad defense, first-game loss
2000--average-to-below-average defense, first-game loss
2001--very bad defense, missed playoffs
2002--average-to-above-average defense, first-game loss
2003--average defense, AFC championship loss
2004--average defense, second-game loss
2005--good defense, first-game loss
2006--bad defense, Super Bowl win
2007--very good defense, first-game loss
2008--good-to-very-good defense, first-game loss
2009--average-to-above-average defense, Super Bowl loss
If there's a pattern in there that suggests Manning would have won more if only he hadn't been saddled with the Indy D, I sure can't find it.
"B-b-but WAIT," you might be screaming at this point (if you have a pronounced stutter). "ALL QBs are going to have more bad games than good in their playoff losses!!" That is theoretically true, and it even seems logical, but that's not the point. The point is the number of losses (and, tangentially, the number of bad games) that Manning has through his postseason career. Even if you take the somewhat-dubious position that '05, '07, and '08 are not Manning's fault at all, that still leaves SIX losses that you can pin some percentage of on Manning.
Also, it seems that we keep falling back on these built-in excuses. To whatever extent you want to remove responsibility from Manning for some of the playoff losses where he put up good numbers, you have to remove credit for at least three of the wins during the 2006 run. Unless we are back to that VY-esque thing where Manning gets the credit when the team wins but never has to take the blame when the team loses. Check out these numbers:
Manning in Super Bowl win: 25-38, 247 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT.
Manning in AFC Championship win v. NE: 27-47, 349 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT.
Manning in Division Round win v. Bal: 15-30, 170, 0 TD, 2 INT
Manning in W.C. Round win v. KC: 20-38, 268, 1 TD, 3 INT
That is not exactly what I would call a great QB leading his team to Super Bowl glory. I mean, INTs in all four games, a 7:3 INT:TD ratio, 87-153 (57%) overall? How very Sex Cannon of you.
Finally (and maybe, at this point, I am piling on) it's also worth noting that struggling in big games is not just an NFL phenomenon for Manning. Look at his college career:
1994--Manning was pressed into duty as a Freshman after the first- and second-string QBs went down. Tennessee had already lost to UGA and Florida before Manning took over the gig, and they would lose to Alabama under him, but the only big game they had that year was the Gator Bowl against Va Tech. They won that game, but Manning was not much of a factor, going 12-19, 189 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT.
1995--The Vols started the season 2-0, and were ranked eighth in the nation when they made the drive down to Gainesville. Manning put up 326 yds and 2 TDs, but the Gators won big, 62-37. While Tennessee's four fumbles were to blame, Manning was also unable to adjust after halftime. He finished the first half with 216 yards and both TDs, but could muster only 110 yds and no TDs in the second half when Florida adjusted by stopping the run and blitzing Manning. This was UT's only regular season loss.
1996--Tennessee was #2 in the country and Florida #4 when the two teams met. Florida jumped out to a 35-0 lead thanks in large part to four first-half INTs from Manning. When Florida went to a bend-but-don't-break coverage in the second half (and especially late when Florida went to a straight prevent), Manning put up most of his gaudy stat line (second half: 25 of 39, 277 yards, 3 TDs, no INTs). Unfortunately for Peyton, both halves counted equally, and his three late touchdowns were not enough to overcome his four early INTs.
1997--Florida was the second-ranked team and Tennessee the fourth-ranked team when they met for Manning's final attempt to beat UF. The 33-20 loss left Manning 0-for-Florida for his career, and Tony George's 89-yard pick-6 was a SportsCenter staple later that season when Heisman voters were discussing Peyton's inability to win the big one. Manning's line for the game was 29 of 51, 353 yards, 3 TD, 2 INT. Seems decent enough on the surface, but between the back-breaking George INT to end the first half, and the fact that UT was already down 33-14 before Manning notched the third TD, it was hardly a Heisman-esque performance. This season ended with the aforementioned figurative defenestration of Manning in his final college game against Nebraska.
Look, like I said, I don't dispute that Manning is statistically a great QB. But to sit there and act like he's been anything other than pedestrian as often as not in the playoffs?
1Is it fair to put all the blame on Manning there? Probably not; he wasn't the reason that the Huskers ran for roughly 3,447 yards that day (estimate). But being logical and being a fan rarely have a perfect correlation, and when Tee and The Martinettes won the title next year, Peyton's role as choking ninny was forever cemented in my mind. (That Tennessee had an outside shot at the title had they won and Michigan lost, and that they didn't even have to WIN so much as "not get fisted" for Michigan to rightfully have the whole title just add to my disdain.)
2 Right here is where I imagine the less-witty among the Colts fans are scrolling straight to the comments to write something along the lines of "Let's compare Peyton's playoff stats to Matt Schaub's playoff stats. Oh, wait." Spare me. First, that's not witty; most of you can do better. Second, and more importantly, that in no way responds to the argument. Pretending otherwise doesn't change that. Make a real rebuttal based on the facts if you feel the need to respond. [/tilting at windmills]
3 It means "boy."
4 Someone should make Manning's head bleed for him.
11 recs |
140 comments
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Comments
Couldn't agree more
Rec’d for a great write-up and intelligent point of view on the most annoyingly overrated QB.
Great article. So true. We’ve known for some time that Manning was a choke artist. They even mentioned it in the Super Bowl broadcast. Before he won his Super Bowl a lot of people were saying he would never win the big one. Very Andy Reid Like. Very Dennis Green like. Very Minnesota Vikings like. All choke artists.
Who here will join me on an intervention on MDC's behalf?
….he seems a tad obsessed, just sayin’
BTW, anyone here have any news about the Texans trading down so they can pick up more draft picks and stock up on O-linemen?
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
This, coupled with Scott Frost crying like a blogger who got spurned by a more popular writer in the Super Bowl media center
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 9, 2010 11:04 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Damn...beat me to it
Guess I should have immediately typed that comment….and then actually read the rest of the article
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
That was real, real nice.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Mar 9, 2010 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
MDC
I was almost like TL;DR but i figured any Five head bashing is worth reading especially since i am bored right now…
For your last write-up...very well done, MDC
And when I say last, I mean that you’re probably BANNED from the Interwebz.
by TexansDC on Mar 9, 2010 11:25 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
big bad brad
….is not only trying to get MDC permanently banned from SB Nation, he is furiously creating new web sites for the sole purpose of banning MDC from them.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Mar 9, 2010 12:26 PM CST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
I wonder
how long it will take donkey fans to show up and violate footnote number 2?
Great write up MDC, btw.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
I love how you placed
the #2 footnote right before the jump. Just to shove it to their faces y’know?
I believe his name is spelled Peighton....
Informative post, always happy to have facts to back up the argument that peighton is highly overated.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Vince Young - Suicide Doors
Really?
I always thought it was Pei-Tan. Oh well,
by RocketsAstros on Mar 9, 2010 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
ever heard of
Haven’t we had enough of this cigar-smoking shit in this country? When are these fat, arrogant, overpaid, overfed, overpampered, overpriviledged, overindulged business criminal asshole cocksuckers going to put out their cigars and move along to their next abomination? White, pussy businessmen sucking on a big, brown dick. That’s all it is. That’s all it ever was. A big, brown dick. Freud said sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Oh, yeah? Well sometimes it’s a big, brown dick with a white collar business criminal asshole sucking on the wet end of it. But the news isn’t all bad for me, you know the good part? Cancer of the mouth. Good, fuck ‘em. It’s an attractive disease, it goes good with a cell phone. So light up, suspender man, and suck that smoke deep down into your empty suit and blow it out your asshole, you fucking cocksucker! -george carlin
just had to bring it up since you brought that picture up
by typhoon.infamous on Mar 9, 2010 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
Pats fans at least have somehwhat of a right to bash Manning.
Their team has 3 Super Bowl Rings. They’ve also actually been to the playoffs amd won more than 9 games in a season a couple of times. Hell they even made Manning look pedestrian for a time. What has your team done aside from having the leading receiver in the NFL twice, having the no. 1 overall pick twice, and have ONE winning season as long as it’s been in existence?
Plus has your team ever actually stopped Manning? Besides I know that each and every person here would be thrilled if the Texans win at least 12 games every season, made the playoffs every year, and had been to the Superbowl TWICE in the last 4 years, rather than go 8-8 constantly and hope that their team makes the playoffs next year. Oh well.
I guess you to come up with something to use against the guy that owns your team every year.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
And there it is
8 hours later, footnote 2 becomes fact
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
To be honest...
I expected it much sooner.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 9, 2010 6:53 PM CST up reply actions
Well said.
I especially liked when you refuted his points with relevant statistics.
by Nashmeister on Mar 9, 2010 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
durh, durh, durh?
jesus christ, don’t these people know what footnotes are?
by typhoon.infamous on Mar 9, 2010 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
I find Porkin's sig humorous
Because I suppose Manning’s consistent wilting under pressure means that he has no idea what the hell he’s doing.
All these boundaries - Africa, Asia, Malaysia, America - are set by men. But you don't have to look at boundaries when you are looking at a man - at the character of a man. The question is: What do you stand for? Are you a follower, or are you a leader? -Hakeem Olajuwon
You mean like your entire team wilting under pressure
in the 2nd Half at HOME against Manning with a 17 point lead lead each of the last two seasons? Look if you guys are satisfied with being mediocre all the time and bashing a team that owns you, as well as its fans, every off-season while you watch them play in the playoffs year in and year out, then that’s fine. As for me, I’ll take my consistent dominance, my QB winning awards anually, and a chance to compete for a Super Bowl every year, rather than watch a team that picks in the Top 20 of the Draft every year and be a part of a fanbase that has nothing better to do in the offseason than to bash their archrival’s QB or daydream about their team’s first playoff appearance.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
First of all, how long has the Colts been in playing in the league,
As compared to the Texans?
1953 against 2002?
you’re a fucking moron.
by typhoon.infamous on Mar 9, 2010 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
Peyton
Tom Brady’s career playoff QB rating: 85.5
Peyton Manning’s career playoff QB rating: 87.5
Dear Texans fans,
When you actually know something about football, kindly feel free to post an article that makes a compelling argument. When the entire spine of this piece (Peyton Manning was and remains to this day a mediocre playoff QB) can be debunked by showing the Peyton Manning has played better than Tom Brady, it kind of tells the rest of the world that Texans fans still don’t get it.
Also, Peyton Manning’s record against the Houston Texans: 15-1
You’d think that with all the years of this guy kicking your ass you guys would have some respect. I guess you folks haven’t gotten beaten down enough. Here’s to more of Peyton kicking your sorry assess.
Sincerely,
BigBlueFistInATexansFansFace
SB Nation's Indianapolis Colts blogger at Stampede Blue. Please make an account so you can post a FanPost, make a FanShot, add some comments, and make some noise. Accounts are free, and only require an email address.
by BigBlueShoe on Mar 9, 2010 7:11 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yes because QB rating is perfect
and decides who wins the game.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
You mean just like how bad QB play is the only reason the Colts have lost in the playoffs?
You set yourself up for that one.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Did you read footnote 2? I’m pretty sure you should go ahead and read the blogpost.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
“2 Right here is where I imagine the less-witty among the Colts fans are scrolling straight to the comments to write something along the lines of “Let’s compare Peyton’s playoff stats to Matt Schaub’s playoff stats. Oh, wait.” Spare me. First, that’s not witty; most of you can do better. Second, and more importantly, that in no way responds to the argument. Pretending otherwise doesn’t change that. Make a real rebuttal based on the facts if you feel the need to respond. [/tilting at windmills]"
I fail to see how that post resembled anything close to the example provided on footnote 2. All I’m saying is that you dismiss QB Rating as not being essential to success yet you imply in the article that Manning’s “poor” playoff preformance is the SOLE reason for the Colts playoff failures. If that wasn’t the point of the article then you weren’t clear in what message it was intended to convey.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
D. Anderson
went 2-17 this year and still had a 40 QB rating. That in itself says the QB rating system is flawed.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
Can you think of any OTHER games like that?
I’ll wait.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Rex Grossman had 6 turnovers in a game once and won.
I guess protecting the ball doesn’t equal wins.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
So who do you blame the loss in the SuperBowl on?
Let me guess, not Pei-tan since someone else threw that pick-6 that cost you the game.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
First off
We were still behind before he threw the Pick-Six and there was no guarantee that we would have scored had he not thrown it. You act as if the game was tied. That would be different. His Pick-Six was A reason we lost but not THE reason. There were several reasons we lost.
A) Failing to recover the Onside Kick to start the 2nd Half
B) Running it up the gut three straight times instead of trying to get a FG before Halftime.
C) Caldwell electing to try a 51 yard FG instead of pinning the Saints inside the 10 with a 4 point lead.
D) Failing to adjust to the Saints quick passing game after the 1st Quarter.
E) Manning throwing the pick-six.
Even if he doesn’t throw the pick and we end up scoring, there still would have been over 2 minutes to go and the Defense had not stopped Drew Brees since late in the 2nd Quarter. The odds that the Saints kick the game-winning FG were very high. Was it a bad play? Hell yeah it was bad. But to say it was why the Colts lost the game is just proof that you weren’t paying attention for the first 57 minutes.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
You really think
A potential 14 point swing in the final five minutes of the game was just reason E? See if it were me, I’d put that down as Reason number A or 1. Because you know. Points matter. Or so I’m told. It’s probably not as impotant as QB rating.
Actually, I’d probably be enraged and curse in every known tongue the offending quarterback if that happened to my team in the Superbowl, come to think of it. I may even have cried, at the very least I would need to get very drunk. I would not be defending that quarterback.
I didn't place those in any particular order of importance.
I was just implying that it wasn’t the SOLE reason we lost as many treat it to be.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
If I had placed it in some sort of order
it would have been C. It essentiallyu put the game out of reach yet the odds were still slim that the Colts would’ve won had it not happened.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Is it sad
That I read this post just to see if there were any rhetorical fallacies like this one on display?
Payton just wins games....
in the regular season.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Vince Young - Suicide Doors
Oh
and he also actually manages to, you know, take a snap in a playoff game. Something no Houston Texans player has EVER done.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
We're an 8 year old franchise...
a little perspective would do you wonders.
It’s like a 21 year old bragging to a 15 year old that s/he can buy alcohol legally due to the fact that their parents forgot to put on a condom 6 years earlier. It’s pathetic.
I'm sorry that I should expect a team with essentially 4 Pro Bowl Players on it
to be good enough to at least have made it to the playoffs ONCE in the last 3 years. The other 5 years you guys were just doormats so I’ll cut you some slack.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Trash talking at its finest!
I love how you’re cutting us some slack. Thanks for having mercy on us.
The point is
It’s basically the Pot calling the kettle black. You’re criticizing my QB’s Playoff record for being mediocre, when your team in its history has been nothing better than mediocre.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
No it isn't
Matt Schaub criticizing Peyton would be a case of the pot calling the kettle black. This is an interested sports fan writing about a player he thinks is overrated and a choke artist.
I mean, how would you respond if MDC was a Patriots fan or a Saints fan? “Peyton is better than Schaub so your argument is invalid” is like the shittiest and laziest argument ever.
MCD is a Texans fan correct?
The Texans have been mediocre for a while correct? So he is criticizing Manning for being “mediocre” in the playoffs when the team he roots for, and by extension bases his opinion from to some degree, is in fact mediocre? I don’t see where you are getting that I compared Schaub and Manning.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Again, Texans fandom has fuck all to do with the post
Fine, saying “The Colts won more playoff games than the Texans: your argument is invalid” is the shittiest and laziest argument ever. It rebuts nothing.
Okay...
so the fact that Manning has a Ring and has set 11 different playoff records means that he has had NO SUCESS in the playoffs… look I’ll agree that he’s not the “BEST EVER”. I never said he was. But to say he “sucks” in the playoffs is just dumb. You’re not going to win the Super Bowl every year. There are a ton of players who would kill to have had anything close to Manning’s success in the postseason. Plus, consistent postseason success requires a COMPLETE team, something Manning has lacked for all but 3 years in his career.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Did you even read the post?
Nobody is saying Peyton had no success.
Thesis: Peyton Manning was and remains to this day a mediocre playoff QB
His win/loss record is mediocre yes.
His preformance overall? Pretty Good sans two playoff games against New England in snow storms. I wouldn’t say being the 3rd player to throw for over 5000 yards in the playoffs, 28 TDs, and an 87.6 QB Rating is mediocre. Is he not as good as he is during the regular season. Sure. Stats don’t lie. Yet you don’t go to 3 AFC Championship Games and 2 Superbowls with a bad run defense and a bad running game by being mediocre.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Im tired of these BUTTHURT colts fans
flaunting their retardedness like they were titties when somebody questions their QB.
His win/loss record is mediocre yes.
Well, no shit sherlock. You can’t really argue with the facts.
His preformance overall? Pretty Good sans two playoff games against New England in snow storms
Excuses. Fucking excuses.
...and his loss to Miami...
and his loss to the Jets… and his loss to Tennessee…
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
You dare to question the strength of that argument?

by Nashmeister on Mar 9, 2010 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm sorry that my response wasn't related to the topic that you wanted to discuss.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
You mean the topic of the post?
If you’re going to make irrelevant comments, at least make interesting irrelevant comments.
I was replying to Texans DC's post.
I’m sorry you couldn’t tell.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Now quite honestly...
If the Colts management had a brain fart and traded Manning to Houston, you all would be singing praises to Jesus. Let’s face it, the only reason you put this up is b/c Manning owns your team. Honestly, I mean as much as I hate to say it when the schedule comes out every year, Colts fans basically check off both games against the Texans as wins. So if you guys actually made the series between our two teams interesting, like say beat us more than once in 16 tries, than I might take your argument more seriously.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Frankly
I’d rather have Schaub at this point. Not trolling, just the honest truth.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Oh well I guess some people just don't mind rooting for a mediocre team.
Can’t call you guys fairweather fans, i’ll give you that.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Well...
There’s always the more yards and five years younger, but don’t pay attention to that.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
eeh...
Tell that to Brett Favre. Age is nothing.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
You're right
Interceptions win championships. It’s a completely overlooked correlation in my opinion.
Championships was never part of the discussion.
I was implying that a QB can still have success late in his career. Plus Manning’s not an idiot and doesn’t throw across his body, on the run, towards a receiver in triple coverage.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
True.
Although he did have the audacity to throw the same route that was nearly jumped by the same CB just shortly beforehand.
And, interestingly enough, Tracy Porter ended Favre’s season as well.
by Nashmeister on Mar 9, 2010 10:10 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
True.
Plus, he throws himself on the ground if it even looks for a second like he might have to step up in the pocket and take a hit.
You are banned from Music City Miracles.
Happy Now Tits?
You are banned from Blogging The Boys.
Vince Young - Suicide Doors
Honestly
I really only see him do it when he knows he is going to take a hit before he can get the ball out. If Schuab did that, I wouldn’t complain.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Also on an unrelated note
why is your name bigfatdrunk? If you don’t mind me asking. Is that like an inside joke? My name is simply showing the fact that I’m a nerd and like Star Wars.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
heh
It’s exactly what you think it means. It’s the ultimate in truth in advertising.
Come the summer, I will have used this name for 20 years on the Internet and its prior incarnations. Damn I feel old.
(The joke is, when I was in college and didn’t hook up with a chick, my fallback excuse was that I’m just a big, fat drunk and I couldn’t find anybody stupid enough that night.)
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
What I know...
is that if the entire basis of your “counter-argument” is 2.0 passer rating then you really don’t have a leg to stand on.
It’s okay. I get it. Indianapolis isn’t impressive. The franchise, the city, the fat humps people…even the Indianapolis 500 has lost its meaning because open-wheel racing blew it in the 90s. Peyton Manning is all you have. You’ll defend him to your dying breath, but the fact is that he’s average in the playoffs. You didn’t provide anything to the contrary.
Peyton is a great regular season quarterback, but he comes down to Earth in the playoffs. If that weren’t the case you’d have more than 1 Super Bowl title in the 2000s.
I'm not from Indy but
Is Houston any more relevant? http://www.webmd.com/diet/news/20050105/americas-fittest-fattest-cities
Perhaps you’re from DC?
by torontocoltsfan on Mar 9, 2010 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
No argument here
Atlanta, too.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
You do realize they don’t take people off the streets and weigh them to distinguish that honor. It is mainly decided by restaurants per capita. And while Houston has plenty of restaurants, just having access to lots of food doesn’t make you fat just as winning the most games in the regular season doesn’t make you the Superbowl winner.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
lol
it was a tongue in cheek post. I’m a Colts fan not an Indianapolis fan though I would like to visit someday. Toronto trumps both Houston and Indy.
by torontocoltsfan on Mar 9, 2010 8:53 PM CST up reply actions
Dear Colts troll,
When you make a website that can get hits on it’s own merits instead of you trying to rile up whatever sports media entity talks bad about Colts/Colts Fans/Indianapolis at any time, kindly feel free to point us to that. Until then, you will remain a troll. It’s cute that this post touched your heart to the point that you feel the need to tell us we don’t matter, even if obviously you think we matter since you spent time replying to it.
Looking forward to not reading your rivetingly witty “takedown” of this entry on your website, where you can delete every comment that doesn’t agree with you.
<3
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Mar 9, 2010 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
BANNED
Comments deleted. It’s the hypocrisy.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Not sure...
But if I had posted something like this on SB, then I would have used an apostrophe where needed.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
I was gonna say the same thing.
But im already banned from there. So there’s really no point in me talking about what or how im gonna post comments over there in North Korea.
Rating? Really?
That would be funny if you meant it ironically.
Dear BRAD,
I think you meant to make your “insightful” comment elsewhere, as this article was about the number of poor performances turned in by Manning in the playoffs. A comparison of Manning and any other player based solely on something as asinine as QB rating does nothing to address the merits of the argument.
Wait…let me slow it down for you here. The argument is that Manning is a mediocre playoff QB based upon his total number of losses and on his abysmal performance in a number of individual games. So, your citation to the players’ respective ratings, as compelling as it might be, fails to address, for example, that Manning has had three career playoff games with a rating below 40, while Brady has zero. Whether, on the whole, Manning has a better rating than Brady (or “played better than Tom Brady,” as you put it) has nothing to do with Manning’s own failures. I’m not sure how this was so hard to grasp.
Of course, coming from you, it is not exactly surprising that you would airball on your attempt to author a rebuttal. Logic and argumentation has never been your strongsuit. But I suppose it’s even harder to overcome your deficiencies when you are too worried about keeping up appearances as BRAD WELLS, INTERNET TOUGHGUY!
Sincerely,
MDC
P.S. Do you not see the hypocrisy in talking tough in the comments here while simultaneously being too afraid of dissent on your own blog that you pre-emptively ban people?
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 9, 2010 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
Wow
Shouldn’t you be banning people on your blog for the simple fact they either:
1. Don’t agree with your inanity, or
2. Point out what an astounding, cry-baby hypocrite you are?
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Mar 9, 2010 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Dear BIGBADBRAD,
YOU SHALL BE BANNED!
Oh, wait, ONLY YOU can do that. Sorry.
by typhoon.infamous on Mar 9, 2010 11:49 PM CST up reply actions
Completely Worthless BBS
There are plenty of fans, on both sides of the aisles, that are smart enough to realize that Peytun’s playoff performance has zero to do with the Texans lack of playoff appearances. You are either not one of them, just enjoy acting like an ass, or some combination of the two. Trust me, we are painfully aware of the fact that we have yet to reach the playoffs and our 1-15 record against the Colts. Your don’t need to have a team in the playoff’s to have an opinion about what happens there.
MDC’s post had nothing to do with Tom Brady vs. Peytun Manning either. It was about Peyton’s performance in the playoffs. I thought of several logical points that could be made to counter MDC’s post. Since you follow Peytun much closer than I do it should have been easy for you to come up with a reasonable rebuttal. Instead, you went to your usual tactic of being an internet tough guy. How predictable.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Mar 10, 2010 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He's a witch!!
A Texas Wannabe, born and raised in New Zealand. Currently located 7539 miles South west of Houston.
by distant_texans_fan on Mar 9, 2010 7:20 PM CST reply actions
With regards to the actual article
It makes some fair points but not without flaws.
For example 2007 ignores the crippling loss of Dwight Freeney and Manning’s 2nd INT went right through the hands of Kenton Keith from a TD catch to turnover, and 2008 the loss of Gary Brackett.
I would pin most responsibility on 18 for the 2003, 2004 and 2005 losses (‘99,’00 and ’02 were when he was a young buck). The pick six in the Super Bowl was just awful, but he had played a great game up to that point the loss came down to Sean Payton out coaching Caldwell.
That's a fair point re: 2007
Though I think the fact that Peyton fared so poorly on three of the final four possessions still has to count against him somewhat.
The stuff about him being young in ‘99 and ’00 would carry more water if other QBs in recent memory hadn’t found success early. And I don’t think you can give him that excuse at all in 2002 when he then in his fifth year as a full-time starter.
Thanks for actually replying with substance, however. It is greatly appreciated around here.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 9, 2010 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
2002
That was just a complete meltdown by the entire team, clearly Manning was a big part of it. They were simply not prepared to play that day in the Meadowlands. And yeah 5th year doesn’t constitute being a young buck.
QB’s finding success early? Flacco, Sanchez and Roethlisberger got playoff wins early in their career sure, but it wasn’t because of their great quarterbacking.
by torontocoltsfan on Mar 9, 2010 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
Matt Ryan?
In all reality, guys like Tom Brady are the outliers.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I was just thinking playoffs, Ryan lost his first playoff game and was not great in it.
by torontocoltsfan on Mar 9, 2010 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
Well...
He was great on that last drive in the Superbowl and in the 4th Quarter of the Raiders game, even if that was a fumble, yet he still had some help. Hell he didn’t even play the last 3 quarters of the championship game in 2001.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Yeah...
He was also leading an Orange Bowl comeback in college against the country’s top ranked Alabama Crimson Tide defense in 2000. Then he had that Super Bowl against the Panthers where he put up video game numbers and led another game winning Super Bowl drive against a very good defense. He then followed that with another Super Bowl win against the Eagles the next year. Then in 07/08 Brady set the record for TD passes in a season with 50 and nearly led the Patriots to an undefeated record only to lose to the younger Manning on a game winning drive. Oh yeah and in that game Brady still led the Patriots to a 14-10 lead late in the fourth and the Giants (a team I’m a fan of) needed a miracle catch by Tyree to get us in position for the victory. Peyton’s passer rating may be higher, but when his team needs him the most I cant think of one spectacular play or drive he’s led to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, a hallmark of the greatest quarterbacks.
It sucks that people can't be objective whatsoever when it comes to debating "their" team
Shame on all the other Colts fans who come here talking out of their ass. Maybe I should frequent other teams’ blogs more often, so I can say objective things about the Colts without getting banned…
I’m a Colts fan. But I definitely see the merit in what you are saying. Peyton has not been the greatest quarterback in the playoffs. But I don’t think that is necessarily because he’s a “choke-artist.”
I am too lazy to look up the statistics, but Peyton has an ungodly number of 4th quarter comebacks. Hell this season alone, he had more than “mediocre” quarterbacks have in their entire career. So, if he can lead the team to “that” many comebacks, clearly he can perform under pressure.
So how do I explain the failures in the playoffs? Personally, I believe for the majority of Peyton’s career, the team surrounding him has been mediocre, at best. Sure, there are some good players, pro bowl players, that have been there…but there have also been a lot of awful players. And I believe a lot of those pro bowl players wouldn’t have amounted to much of anything if they hadn’t been playing alongside Peyton.
I don’t agree with your (Football Outsider’s) view of the Colts’ teams. Yes, in 2006 the Colts’ defense was horrible in the regular season. But if you will recall, they picked it up in the playoffs, completely reversing the trends they had displayed in the regular season. The Colts’ running game also came alive. Manning was no longer a one-man-show, and the Colts got a ring.
If people can’t recall that, they should be able to recall the Super Bowl this year, where the Colts defense let Drew Brees complete ~90% of his passes and march down the field at will, following the first quarter. Please tell me how that is Manning’s fault. Or that it is Manning’s fault that Garcon dropped a perfectly thrown ball in the second quarter. Or that Caldwell chose to run the ball three straight times to end the first half. Or that Caldwell sent Stover out to kick a FG he had no business attempting. Or any of the other numerous issues that have already been stated, as to why the Colts lost. Sure, Peyton threw that pick 6…but if none of these other issues, that are completely out of his control are present, he is never in the position where he has to force the ball. The Colts were in the position to have a CHANCE to win the game because of Manning and the running game. Saying he’s the reason they lost is ignoring a lot of other factors…fallacious argument at its best.
Also…going back to my criticism of your 2006 assessment…again, a fallacy. If you’re gonna ignore Manning’s great regular season performances, and just focus on his playoff stats…well then you need to look at the whole Colts team just from the perspective of the playoffs.
Personally, I believe the Colts team sucks. Their O-line is garbage, other than Saturday. Absolute garbage, and has been…which is why they can barely ever run the ball. Peyton gets sacked so little because he knows where blitzes are coming from everytime, and gets rid of the ball quicker than anyone. He covers up the O-lines total incompetence and makes them look good. Did you see what happened when Curtis Painter went in against the Jets? Compare that to what was going on when Peyton was in.
So the cliffs notes…
Peyton is not a choke-artist. His comeback record proves otherwise. There is no “right” answer to why his playoff record is not better. I personally believe that having to play three or four good teams in a row, exposes the rest of the Colts team for what they are…mediocre at best when viewed as a whole. Sure, Peyton played poorly in some of them, particularly against New England at the beginning of his career. I nor any other reasonable person expects a QB to play perfectly every game. And there were other factors besides Peyton’s play that led to those losses.
by jochexum on Mar 9, 2010 9:22 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
+10
There’s a certain value to being honest with your own biases. MDC does that for us here. I mean, I should ban AllenOU from BRB because, you know, he went to OU. Alas…
That said, there’s definitely a shred of truth. My largest disagreement comes from the fact football is, ultimately, a team game. If the entire onus was on the QB, then why care about the rest of the team?
I’m not ashamed to admit I’d love for the Texans to have this track record of playoff failure.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
this article proves every single texan is indeed smarter then then every single colt
If you guys could go 15-1 for me that would be great, just don’t beat JAX at JAX and shred the little titans and ponies
Waber-Jaguar
by jawsaints on Mar 9, 2010 9:23 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
If not for your traitor RB you guys would of pulled it off in JAX
I can go on record I just wish Battle red didn’t kick so much patoot (of the Jaguars’)
and Schaub once he gets into the Playoffs, I think he’ll outdo Manning and you can hold me to that
Waber-Jaguar
I will.
He doesn’t have much of a ground game though so that might be difficult. His defense isn’t too good either.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
Ground game what is that???
plus the D is getting there, it has been slow progress but it is still progress.
As for the crap spewed about the Texans are mediocre the Texans haven’t been to the playoffs once!
Excuse me for saying, Did you see the Early years, of an O-line that couldn’t block for a powder puff team, a QB who was on his back more times than a german hooker, Casserly who made some of the worst personnel decisions EVER!!! and then being slammed into a division with Good teams, which I still believe is the HARDEST Division in the LEAGUE!
Yeah so what we finally got our first winning record. And if the colts would have finished the game against the Jets, who is to say that the Texans wouldn’t have done well in the playoffs. I am not trying to be that guy who claims bias in the NFL when it comes to officiating, but both games where Houston was LESS THAN A TD against the colts, there were some shitty calls. A PI where the ball was obviously uncatchable? I mean come on even if you are delusional you could recognize when Indy plays Houston, and Houston finishes a game with more penalties/penalty yds than they have all season something is wrong.
LOL
you sound like us after the first playoff game against NE. But I was talking about as long as Schaub has been here. The O-Line hasn’t been THAT bad. I mean you guys were 8-8 twice and then 9-7. I was stating that his team will have to improve significantly before we say that he’ll be better than Manning in the playoffs.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Mar 10, 2010 6:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Uhm,
Yeah, it hasn’t been THAT BAD.
by typhoon.infamous on Mar 10, 2010 6:42 AM CST up reply actions
Plus a lot of those sacks were b/c Carr held onto the ball too long ala Roethlisberger but w/o the good defense or clutch ability.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Mar 10, 2010 6:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Doesn't that sound familiar though?
Hell, you guys made it to the SB without having a ground game also. It’s certainly difficult, but possible.
by typhoon.infamous on Mar 9, 2010 11:52 PM CST up reply actions
true
but only two teams have been to a SB with a really bad ground attack: Cardinals and the Colts. Cardinals had Kurt Warner at QB and the Colts had Peyton Manning. I agree it’s possible yet you have to have a border-line Hall of Famer to pull it off and somehow Schaub doesn’t seem to fit that mold. He’s good just not that good. Not saying it’s not possible for him to do it yet he’ll have to start taking his game above just big stats and start leading some comebacks or winning some shootouts against upper-echelon teams before I’ll say he’s good enough to pull that off.
"Pressure is something you feel if you don't know what the hell you're doing."-Peyton Manning
by P0RKINS2 on Mar 10, 2010 6:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
You want comebacks?
How about a game tying drive against Jacksonville on the road in 2008. Or a game-winning drive at GB in zero degree weather (also 2008). Or how about a game winner against playoff-bound Miami with less than two minutes and no timeouts remaining (2008 again). What about no fewer than four two-minute drives (at AZ, Tennessee, at Indy and at Jacksonville) that ended up as losses because our kicker sucked or our starting running back (what, you’re going to blame Schaub for missing field goals or not being able to run the ball in from the one?). Schaub put the team in position to win or at least go to overtime in every single one of those games. Then there was also the 21 straight points he put on New England to win the game. That’s not enough?
Or, perhaps, you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Mar 10, 2010 7:31 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
P0RKINS2 != BIGBAD
I think there’s at least the possibility of having a thoughtful conversation with him.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I'm not holding my breath.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Mar 10, 2010 7:56 AM CST up reply actions
"Or, perhaps, you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about."
I like this line far more than I should.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
We try to not speak of that game
It just didn’t happen.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
*2 was Brilliant
For some reason some sports fans think everything is either black or white (no, not talking race here). Most things are somewhere in between….except Panda Sex. That is 100% made of awesome.
Logically most QB’s numbers would go down in the playoffs because they are playing against the best teams in the League. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that up to this point Manning hasn’t been quite as spectacular as some of the media hype and public perception would seem to indicate.
I’m not willing to place all the blame for playoff losses on Manning for the same reason I’m not willing to give Vince credit for “just winning” over in Methopotamia. Just because it’s obvious that Manning isn’t to blame for some of those losses doesn’t change his poor performances as it relates to this post. It’s just means that the other team was better on that day.
Everyone has biases. I hate Peyton’s guts but I, and I would guess every Texan fan, would have zero problems with Manning starting for us in a playoff game. Sometimes it’s good as a fan to take a step back and just look at things rationally. I can think of plenty of times when Texans fans were blinded by their own love for the team too.
That being said thank you to those special Colts fans who by failing to read footnote #2 completely lived up to my expectations. I got some weird type of enjoyment at your level of ignorance.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Mar 10, 2010 10:50 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
I agree with a lot of this.
To the extent this article read like I was putting all of the blame on Manning for every loss, I should have been more clear. My point was, first, that he’s turned in an inordinate number of shitty games for a guy who is supposed to be QB Jesus (or the white VY). Second, I wouldn’t ever go so far as to suggest that 100% of any loss, even the 4-INT abortion he put up against NE is Manning’s fault — only that, to the extent people seem to give Manning 100% of the credit for the wins, they should be willing to acknowledge Manning’s share of the losses. Which, in some games, was a very large share.
**This comment more or less covers my reply to the well-though-out Colts fan response above.
Panda sex.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
I thought it was clear
…in that it provided a good counter-balance to the hype that that everyone gets caught up in from time to time….as long as you didn’t let your fan blinders get in the way. All you did was take a look at Peyton’s actual results. As long as people don’t start reading into it something that’s not there it’s crystal clear.
Colts fans for years felt disrespected by the media, and rightly so in some cases. The tide turned long ago however, and the whole “Nobody gives us the credit we deserve” card is played out. Manning being treated as a god among men is right up there with Belichick is a genius and Pete Carrol is the (former) greatest college coach of the greatest college team EVAR type of things that are/wereshoved down our throats by the media. Peyton is easily one of the greatest QB’s in history. There’s no way he’s not at least in the discussion. That doesn’t mean a little perspective once in a while is a bad thing.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
For some reason some sports fans think everything is either black or white (no, not talking race here).
That’s just racist.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Shut up cracker ass
cracker
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Dude im from Texas
and a Chiefs fan…you know the original Texans and I actually like to route for the Texans prob. the only other team I like to watch but, seriously stop being a fucking hater!
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
I stopped reading at "route for the Texans prob."
Sadly, I should have stopped at “im.”
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 12, 2010 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
get lost looser
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
by nolander on Mar 12, 2010 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Derrick Thomas sucks dicks in hell.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Mar 12, 2010 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Fantastic.
texanphil is smart and I’m a retard.
" If CB is a big hole, Dunta was the shovel."
- Rivers McCown
by MDC on Mar 12, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Alright
I guess if bashing me for grammer and spelling is cool, I forgot I was in Comp. I again.
“I’m” sorry I just didnt understand the point of the post….just to call Peyton an average playoff QB?
Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win championships
I have been rendered speechless.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.

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