Defending The Pick: Why I'm Taking A CB Over A DT/NT In Round One
by Mike Kerns on Apr 13, 2010 9:08 AM CDT
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After being mistakenly lumped into a category by TGC about what the Texans should do in the first round of this years draft, I figured I would explain why my choice differs from the rest of the BRB staff.
Now, before I go any further, I do want readers to realize that I am not against taking Dan Williams in the first round. The guy would be a huge help to the D-line. But, if Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, Earl Thomas or miraculously Joe Haden is still on the board, then I don't give Big Dan a chance on my draft board.
If all those guys are gone and trading down just isn't an option, then of course I take him. I just don't see that being the case, though. One of those guys will fall to us.
Yes, our pass rush is lame. But the myth that if we get a DT/NT that can magically turn Amobi Okoye into a good player by playing next to him is going to make our secondary better is just that...a myth. Sure, an improved pass rush is something Texans fans have only dreamed of up to this point and the thought is tantalizing. But drafting Dan Williams isn't going to make us the '85 Chicago Bears. We would still have a pretty weak secondary where Jacques Reeves is your "best" cover guy. So, therefore, cornerback in Round One is the way I am going and I hope the team does, too.
So, which guy do I want to be in Deep Steel Blue this fall? Well, I am one of the people who thinks Joe Haden dropping to 20 isn't going to happen unless he gets busted with a Singapore hooker the night before the draft. Earl Thomas, while not impossible, is unlikely to be there either. If he is, that is the one exception I would take over a corner. But there are plenty of scouts saying that he would/could be able to make the transition to corner rather easily. He has all the tools and the biased UT guys here on BRB would be doing cartwheels and back flips for Earl.
That leaves us with cornerbacks Kyle Wilson of Boise State and Devin McCourty of Rutgers most likely to be there when Houston is on the clock.
I have been in Kyle Wilson's camp for quite a while now. I think he is the playmaker at corner that Atlanta believes they're getting with the departed Dunta Robinson. Playing in the pass-happy WAC certainly helped Wilson get ready for what seems to be becoming a passing league in the NFL. And when you have that Peyton Manning guy in your division, a good cover guy with playmaking ability as CB1 is a must.
However, the more I hear about Devin McCourty, the more I like him.
"I think being a complete player and not just a corner or a nickel, being able to do everything a coach wants on special teams, works to my advantage. We played quite a bit of press coverage, usually on third down. We played cover-2 and man, so we were kind of a half-and-half defense. I played inside my first two years. The last two years I moved outside. I saw a lot of action in the run game as well as the pass game. I love to compete, and it's a really neat position." - Devin McCourty
Sounds like he just might be a better fit for Frank Bush's fun cover-2 scheme he likes so much. He is also a special teams demon who blocked seven kicks while at Rutgers.
So, either guy would help Houston a ton. If you thought Dunta was bad in a Texans uniform last year, imagine if Reeves or Glover Quin get injured in the preseason and we have a full season of Brice McCain or Fred Bennett as a starter. Sure, there are other options in the later rounds for decently rated corners, but this is a position that needs a high value pick in my opinion.
But I guess it isn't going to matter when the team picks Ryan Mathews in the first when Wilson and McCourty are both available...
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Fuck Dunta
McCourty would be an upgrade on Cunta. However, in addition to needing a playmaking CB in a division with Peyton Manning, a formidable pass rush is even more essential.
It’d be interesting if Dan Williams, McCourty, Wilson and Mathews (dear god) are all there at 20.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 13, 2010 9:27 AM CDT reply actions
Or
A third round guard prospect we’ve never really thought of as first round material named Wayne Brown.
or Tim Tebow
and convert him to CB1
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 13, 2010 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions
EH
when have a team ever jus ‘stopped’ Peyton Manning on D? exactly, we shoulda outscored them in both games then our O got stagnant and couldnt keep the clock running that led to Peyton coming back.. a rookie corner sure as hell isnt gona stop Petyon, thats why you have to draft Ryan Mathews to pund the rock and run the clock, the only way to beat Manning is to keep his big head ass on the bench.. theres a ton of depth at CB this year but I do like Devin and Kyle but we’re no D is ever gona just stop Peyton.. RB 1st round CB 2nd
"big head ass"
new BRB term???
No, Mathews would not be able to pound the rock and run out the clock on Indy. Once the entire offensive line is pushed into the backfield he will get nowhere. Freeny and Mathis can destroy Myers, Brown, Studdard, and White all day long. You fail to recognize that between those two guys (and big head ass) they beat us everytime. Mathews ran behind a great line in college and played against weaker teams. Hell, the back up to Mathews I think averaged 5.5 ypc. You could have driven a garbage truck through the holes that line made for them. Mathews does not equal instant success in Houston. Mathews would be successful in Baltimore, NYJ or NYG, teams that have strong lines and dominate the line of scrimage – something the Texans do not do.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
Thank you
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
The problem with this thought is for one…the Texans dealt with backups at the guard positions last season. Obviously that will not be the case in the coming season. Two, they obviously intend on addressing the interior of the line as they have said as much. Guards/Centers are generally not chosen til the 2nd-3rd rounds meaning you starter quality in those mid-rounds so there is no reason to panic if it is not their first selection. Third, the blocking system they utilize is not a power running system. They only adjusted to such last season due to the injuries on the interior. It is a cutback system which Mathews fits. Also acting as if Mathews was not talented before college would be a stretch as he was one of the top backs in the country regardless of where he played college ball. Running back simply is not a difficult position to translate over to the NFL.
With that said I can see them going for either of the corners in Wilson or McCourtry using the bait of taking Matthews to trade down with a team needing a running back like the Chargers. The draft isn’t deep for RB’s so a team in a need may make such a trade. Either way the Texans should have a hard time messing up this pick.
So Mathews was good in
high school too? I don’t care. So your arguement is that he is a one cut back and so that means since we are ZB team he would fit irregardless of how effective we are at ZB? Bull. The Colts o-line is similar to ours and Donald Brown gave them a whopping 250 yards. I’m not saying it would be the same but come on, none of our backs last year ran for over 400 yards. The Texans entire line is made of back up players so you think sticking Briesel back in the line up will change it from garbage to roses? I’m not buying it and especially in the first round. You want to give $12-15MM guaranteed to a RB that might give you a few more yards on the ground when you still have Slaton and he’s the #1 going into next season.
You say the Texans intend on addressing their line, what makes you say that? Everything I read said they were happy with the line. Go for value in the first. You could get someone just as talented in the second third or fourth and not spend the $$$$$$ and go get someone who will make an impact at a real position of need. According to your theory that a one cut RB would fit into a ZBS then we already have Slaton “who fits the one cut system” then we don’t need to spend the money. By that definition we also have Ryan Moats and Johnson that would fit the ZBS so why throw money to add a 5th RB to the team.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
by Bobobigbro on Apr 14, 2010 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
That's just my George W.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
how
do u kno mathews cant pound the rock? how do u kno he wont be successful?
-————————
thats dumb, that jus like sayin Stephen Curry wasnt going to be successful in the NBA simply cuz he tore thru garbage mid-level colleges, now hes one of the favorites to be the R.O.Y… it would be stupid to assume that
-—————
it would stupid if some1 said Jacoby Jones wouldnt be successful simply cuz he came from small Lane College, u understand these analogies? cuz it seems ur the 1 who “fail to recognize” that its not about the competition its about u as an individual and Mathews is a beast
-———————-
u obviously havent seen his utube highlights cuz against Boise State he racked up over 200 plus yards and if u look closely on his 2 massive TD runs youll notice CB Kyle Wilson pointlessly giving chase behind Mathews
-——
and wasnt Boise State debated amongst espn as a team who possibly coulda played for the National Championship vs Alabama? o yea im sure u failed to recognize that also
-——————
for future reference for u and the guys that mindlessly agreed with u, dont judge a player based off their conference, its not a smart way to evaluate talent
Yes,
Jump on Ryan Mathews. He will fix our running game.
/sarcasm
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 14, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
easier to be sarcastic than to use ur brain and say who u think would fix it
he the 2nd best back by every one with a competent brain for a reason.. idk if hes the answer but hes a helluva lot better than every1 here thinks
I don't think anyone here
has said that he’s a bad back. That said, he’s still only projected to be the 2nd best RB in the draft, because he hasn’t played a down of NFL football yet.
Anyway, my main point is that about 95% of the people posting on here think there are bigger holes to fill on our roster. Do we need help at RB? Probably. Could we get someone that fills a bigger hole in the first round(FS, CB, DT), and a very serviceable back in the later rounds? Almost definetly.
He's the 2nd best back...
because people are afraid to take a chance on Jahvid Best (who was the #1 back before a concussion). A weak top-end of the RB class…..lets a Combine warrior jump to the top rather easily.
A RB isn’t the answer. Defense is.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I'm sorry HB
you are new here so I should share my feelings. I do not see a RB in the first round as value outside of a talent like Adrian Peterson or Ladanian Tomlinson. Pretty much, if I am going to use a first round pick on a RB, that guy has to be so good that you cannot pass him up. The reason for not wanting to use a first round pick on a RB is because a RB has a short NFL life. Most running backs are done by 30 years old. I cannot see that as value when other positions can expect guys to play until they are 35. Plus, with the rise in injuries at the position, it is hard to keep a RB on the field. On top of that, it only takes two or three concussions before a player starts thinking about quitting.
Second, in the Shanahan tree of coaching which Kubiak comes from, the running game is made up of a stable of late round RBs and the earliest Shanahan spent on a RB was in the second round for Clinton Portis. It is easy to find late round RBs who fit the one cut type of RB. Terrelle Davis was the best back in Shanahan’s system and he was a sixth round pick. The whole point of Shanahan’s system is to invest in creating a technically sound O-line that can create holes that anybody could run through. If you really want the running game to be fixed so that it runs out the clock to keep Peyton Manning off the field, those kind of yards are made by the O-line late in the game. So push for the O-line to be fixed. It’s nothing against Ryan Mathews (even though he is overhyped), but the Texans are not in the kind of position where they can be using first round picks on a luxury position like RB.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 14, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Add one more thing to RB value...
The addition of split time RBs has decreased the value of a RB. Matthews, even if he did win the starting gig, would only play 2 downs.
Even in quotes from the Comicle, USA Today, Yahoo Sports….the coaches have said they want a 20 touch guy.
You have spending the 1st rounder on a 20 touch guy (no RB took more than 896 snaps) vs a CB who will be out there on every play and every drive….maybe even returning kicks too. (Dunta took 1002 snaps)….a CB provides more value.
"Lord, beer me strength."
::shakes fist::
Damn you, and your ‘logic’ thingamajig
theres aton of HB's and CB's this draft
u obviously cant get that thru ur thick skull.. therefore theres not desperation to get a CB 1st round
when the draft is over we will have our most glaring needs HB and CB filled with impact players, theres too much depth at our need positions, u fail to comprehend
i wont jump off a balcony like u are if we dont pick a CB 1st round
Are you saying...
That our O will benefit from an impact player more than our D?
Serious question.
serious question? o i thought u were joking (sarcasm)
i said we have more glaring needs at HB and CB NO PARTICULAR ORDER DUDE.. mayb i shoulda put CB and HB so i wont confuse u
but it wont matter if we go CB then HB or HB then CB in the first 2 rounds cuz these positions are so stacked every are rated close to equal after Haden
Here's the thing
Just your average, run of the mill hardcore casual Texans fan.
...aaand I mean't to hit cancel.
I’m not even trying anymore.
Just your average, run of the mill hardcore casual Texans fan.
It's spelled
Y-O-U
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 17, 2010 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions
And yet...
here you are arguing for Ryan Mathews in round 1.
Actually, you said…there’s Spiller/Mathews who are rated above Wilson/McCarthy. That there’s a wide gap between Mathews and the 2nd round RBs (Best, Tate, Dwyer)
I don’t want a CB in round 1. My choice has always been DT Dan Williams. However, any of the needs (FS, CB, DT….G/C) would be better picks than a 1st round RB. There’s better value in other picks.
A NFL RB splits carries…so why invest in a part-time back for your top-5 offense when your middle-of-the-pack defense could use 3 starters? Use some logic.
"Lord, beer me strength."
u act like ur an expert when ur far from it
u have ur opinion i have my opinion.. we should draft a RB yes if Earl Thomas or Haden arent there.. the Broncos selected Knowshon Moreno with the 12th pick last year and how has that worked out for them? he wasnt a ‘cant miss Adrian Peterson type back that u must draft’ like u said hes not on AP’s level.. uts the 20th pick we would be using on one and ur acting like its a top 10 pick, get serious..
yet u say we need to go DT when we have had the WORST drafting those the last few years, w/e man..
u sittin over there arguing me down about a corner but u believe we should go wit a tackle? THEY SPLIT SNAPS AND ROTATE WITH LINEMAN TOO wtf are u talkin about? u make no sense
this isnt goin anywhere, im done talkin to a brick wall
by HB23 on Apr 14, 2010 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's two different people you are talking about
TexansDC said the thing about DT, I said the thing about AP. So call the right people dumb if you are going to call people dumb.
You say you are talking to a brick wall but you never commented about what I, theaxeeffect, said. I am willing to hear you out, if you can defend your opinion.
My point is that we don’t have a high pick to where we are going some freak talent like AP, so we do not have to invest in a RB. You can grab a late first round CB, and do pretty well. So do you want a player like Moreno? Because I have to say, his rookie season was not spectacular. He only averaged 3.8 yards per carry behind an O-line much better than the Texans while Steve Slaton averaged 3.3 yards per carry. So if you want to say that the O-line is fine because Briesel is coming back, then I would the RB position is fine because Slaton is coming back.
And isn’t your comment that there is depth at CB and HB in this draft counterproductive? You say we can wait at CB because of the depth but have to grab Mathews in the first? But if there is depth at the RB position, then can’t it wait too? I’m just trying to clarify what you mean.
And Rick Smith’s record of DTs in the first round is 1. Amobi Okoye who you can consider a bust, I don’t mind. But to say that he cannot evaluate talent at that position would be a bit of reach to base it off of one guy. And I know from talking with TexansDC that he is in favor of a DT because we need some help up the middle when it comes to run defense and taking double teams off of Mario Williams. So DT is a greater position of need for an upgrade because if you say Okoye is a bust and he’s our best DT, then we have no good DTs on the roster whereas Steve Slaton is a good RB who was hampered by a neck injury last year and if he comes back recovered, RB is not a need of an upgrade. Also, Arian Foster played decent in the last couple of games to where I would still say that RB does not need an upgrade as bad as DT does.
So will you be my friend and talk to me again instead of that stupid TexansDC?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 14, 2010 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Knowshon only rushed for about 760 yards. Not the kind of impact you’d want from a 1st round running back.
It’s not a top 10 pick, but a 1st round pick should produce an unquestion starter. It’s simple really. 20, 10, 15, 1, 30….you should find a starter in round 1. Mathews, whether he’s good or bad, wouldn’t be a starter. He’d have to earn the job in training camp (per Kubiak’s own words about it being an open competition at RB in the summer). Why take a RB when you can find a starter on the less-talented defensive side? Whether it’s Dan Williams, Kyle Wilson, Devin McCourty, or Earl Thomas…there’s going to be a starter there. May as well take him….and grab a RB later considering we have 4 on the roster….2 who have starter’s experience.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Re: Moreno
I think he/she was trying to refute the “Shanahan’s Broncos don’t draft RB’s early” claim, although clearly Shanny wasn’t there for the Bronco’s draft of Moreno since he’d been fired.
SOMEONE’S dumb here, but keeps firing off the insult.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Rec'd for "done talkin"
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Apr 16, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
So he had one good game...
against Boise State and he’s the next Barry Sanders? Man, you’re some sort of talent evaluator…
He was a 3rd round pick before the season. After taking on rush defenses that averaged 80th (out of 120) he jumped to a 2nd round pick. Then he became a combine warrior and pushes himself into the 1st round. Simply put, he’s overrated. He shouldn’t be a 1st round pick. Taking him at 20 is a mega reach….especially when our defense needs improvement.
The offense will move the ball and score points just fine……if we’re ever to get over the hump: We’ll need defense.
It’s not a coincidence that our best record in franchise history came when we had the best defense in franchise history…..however, if we wanna be a championship team then we need to jump from mid-pack defense to top 10, top 5……and to do that, we’ll need talent at CB, FS, and DT.
"Lord, beer me strength."
i didnt say hes the next Barry Sanders
ur one of those ppl that take somethin out of context and misconstrue it into somethin totally fabricated..
i guess u fail to recognize that theres ATON of depth at CB, Haden is the top rated corner and then EVERY one else is lumped together..
Yes our D sorely needs a corner but bottom line is Spiller and Mathews are rated higher than Kyle Wilson-Devin McCourty.. those are facts not an opinion like urs
Fact? Where's your proof...
here’s mine
Check out who’s at 20 (Wilson), 24 (Mathews), and 25 (McCourty). Then ask yourself what would you rather have: A CB who would be the starter or a RB who either is going to be a 2 down RB (dude isn’t a 3rd down guy with 19 career receptions) or a back up because he didn’t win the job in training camp.
Don’t claim fact….when you don’t provide proof. I can even go beyond 1 site because the highest Mathews has gone in any mock is 20th…..Wilson has gone as high as 16 (Tennessee), 17 (San Francisco), 18 (Pittsburgh)……McCourty’s gone as high as 20 too, so on mocker’s boards it’s not clear cut that Mathews is sooooooo much better than Wilson or McCourty.
There’s tons of depth at RB too. Ben Tate in round 2 or Hardesty in round 3 are better fits and provide better value. You need impact, full-time starter in round 1….Mathews simply wouldn’t be it.
"Lord, beer me strength."
o cuz its ur mock means ur opinion is legit? lol thats ur biased opinion
Mathews is a 2 down back? wat?! lol hell nah hes a 3 down back he can catch he jus was never really thrown the rock do ur research no1 ive come across has said hes a 2 down back
numbers can be misleading, think about it from his coach point of view, why the hell would u throw him passes when hes gashing every team for 6.6 yds per carry? lol I sure as hell wouldnt call HB dump off plays that would be stupid, just because he doesnt have many receptions doesnt mean he cant catch
Adrian Peterson wasnt and isnt thrown at that much but when they do he can catch it dam good
i jus dont understand why ur knockin this guy that much
yea ok great production means he suck (sarcasm) stfu man ur annoying u make no sense
I make no sense? Let's dumb it down then.
Mathews is a 2 down back. wat! i kno rite? he had 19 catches in 3 seasons he cot the rock 19 times compared to 102 by other Fresno State RBs. wat! he wasn’t the 3rd down back eva? Nah! he still good rite?
gashing every team? u mean the 1 year he was a starter against all those bad defenses? wat! dude’s a rockstar! he did what he was supposed to do! his stats are better than almost anyone’s. he’s a badass! it’s all about production! not those defenses he did it against!
Man, throw some facts out:
- The average run defense faced by Fresno State: 80th. There’s 120 Division 1 Schools…meaning he faced below average defenses. Only 2 times did he face a run defense in the top 60. Yes, we’ll only use 2009 because it was the only year where he was the starter…it makes a lot of sense to invest a 1st round pick on a 1 year wonder.
- Of course, he still only managed 19 career receptions compared to the other RBs who had a combined 102. Why take him out if he is great at catching? /logicfail
He fattened up stats on patsies, but he still wasn’t good enough to be out there on 3rd down…it’s not hard to understand. He’s an overrated prospect.
He was a 3rd rounder before this season…he has a huge year against patises so they bump him up to a 2nd rounder….there’s a void at the top of the RB board because Jahvid Best suffers a season-ending injury, panic pushes him up…..the combine happens and he’s a rock star in gym shorts…..people push him up to a 1st rounder….specifically to teams who “need” a RB.
Of course, need is in quotation marks for the Texans because their line is full of crap players. Even when leading the league in passing….we couldn’t open up holes for a RB.
I mean, look at Donald Brown. He was a 1st round rookie RB who went to a pass-happy team to improve their running game…he had 250something yards his rookie year.
In fact, in the past 3 seasons….9 RBs have been taken in the 1st round. 3 have rushed for over 1,000 yards in their rookie season: Peterson, Chris Johnson, and Marshawn Lynch (who is not being shopped around for a 3rd round pick). There’s no guarantee that a RB in round 1 makes this wild impact like you think.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Apr 14, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 6 recs
lol oh by da way
ya need to work on yo dum down stylez.
cuz ur shit is way to redable an shit
get off his nuts u too guys are losers foreal
all u do is agree with everything he say.. mayb yall are the same person fuck off seriously i have every rite to my opinion u dam internet geeks
Yes, you absolutely have the right to your opinion
And everyone on this board (BRB) has the right to expect that opinion to be presented in a tactful and respectful manner.
If you want to have a decent conversation here about this or any other Texans-related subject, then make an effort to do so. If you post comments full of vitriol and spite, then do not be surprised when others here call you out for it.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
way too much time on ur hands go get some pussy
but im sure ur not too popular with the ladies so go watch porn with ur boyfriend
Not likely, he ain't as funny as JJ
I would challenge you to a battle of wits, but you appear to be unarmed.
by The Night Owl on Apr 16, 2010 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
And that wasn't my mock...
That was Drafttek, a widely respected and referenced draft website.
Way to ignore proof there buddy….nice to see you provide your own. Actually, no you didn’t. When you’re ready to debate like an adult…let me know.
"Lord, beer me strength."
both of yall idiots can fuck off
why dont u and ur hype man go jack each other off.. i have more important things to do than to make myself look like Im Mel Kiper
fuck off u annoying ass fly
Ladies and Gentlemen...
your common Internet Troll.
No proof to back-up his argument…resorts to name-calling.
"Lord, beer me strength."
even Rip is a better troll
:-p
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
So when am I getting this BJ?
Just your average, run of the mill hardcore casual Texans fan.
This is what I get for not scrolling all the way down every day all day
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Here's another "baseless opinion" for ya...
Average ranking of SEC defenses: 37th
Average ranking of WAC defenses: 88th
The worst SEC defense (Arkansas) is 89th overall. The SEC’s worst is on par with the average of the WAC.
People bring in the school tie for Mathews because it’s valid when understanding his production. Great production on bad defenses isn’t the same as great production on good defenses.
When asking about Mathews in the 1st or Hardesty in the 3rd, I’ll go Hardesty because it’s better value overall. You get a runner who put up great stats against better defenses in a lower round which allows you to address other needs while still getting a valuable RB who could help improve the running game. It’s not like I’m the only one to suggest this idea…
"Lord, beer me strength."
Awesome!
I guess we really pissed off Mathews little brother who will never become anything except for a homophobic ladies man.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
Honestly Reggie Bush is a great example in my mind.
i didn’t watch all of his games or really pay attention to him. The PAC 10 is not know for amazing Run D’s. Bush puts up amazing stats all season, but when he meets the smashmouth D of a Big XII team (UT) he gets 50 yds, and USC decides to go with “the other guy.” So in my view Mathews is made good by the good O-Line he had at frezno state shiver and the fact that the teams he played were below Avg.
Obviously Bush can make plays, but he hasn’t really been a huge factor in the Run Game for N’awlins. in fact why dont they just change him to a WR (oh wait he is too short)
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
I'm pretty sure the guy is rah-tarded
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Anytime I see a comment starting with words like "u" and "kno" and "some 1"
My eyes just move on to the next one….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Apr 16, 2010 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Agree
This does violence to the English language and I hate it.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 17, 2010 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rebuttals
Yes, our pass rush is lame. But the myth that if we get a DT/NT that can magically turn Amobi Okoye into a good player by playing next to him is going to make our secondary better is just that…a myth.
Players play better if they play in better situations. It might not change Okoye into a freak of nature or something, but he’d be better than he has been. I’d say he’d be decent instead of mediocre, and it would be a decent way to try and rejuvenate a faded career rather than simply replacing him. As for it being a total myth…evidence?
Sure, an improved pass rush is something Texans fans have only dreamed of up to this point and the thought is tantalizing. But drafting Dan Williams isn’t going to make us the ’85 Chicago Bears. We would still have a pretty weak secondary where Jacques Reeves is your “best” cover guy. So, therefore, Cornerback in Round one is the way I am going and I hope the team does, too.
So Kyle Wilson or Devin McCourty will turn us into the 85 Bears? Both are need areas. I (and I guess others, but after you taking some offense to last post, I’m not going to lump everyone in with me) happen to think improving the pass rush does more than drafting a corner does. You could simply say you think the upgrade from Reeves or Quin to Wilson or McCourty is bigger than Shaun Cody to Dan Williams. Is that what you’re trying to say? I don’t agree, but that argument makes more sense than “Dan Williams doesn’t turn us into the 85 Bears”.
And when you have that Peyton Manning guy in your division, a good cover guy with playmaking ability as CB1 is a must.
We didn’t have one last year and we were pretty close. I’d also add that Peyton Manning is going to find the weak point in your defensive secondary. You’re going to need more than one good corner to fix that. The Jets had the best corner in the NFL last year and that didn’t help them stop Manning in the slightest.
If you thought Dunta was bad in a Texans uniform last year, imagine if Reeves or Glover Quin get injured in the preseason and we have a full season of Brice McCain or Fred Bennett as a starter.
Nothing would be different?
Of course, all of this is moot since Dan Williams is probably not going to be there at 20 anyway, nor are we going to pick him if he is IMO.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 13, 2010 9:35 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Ha
I didn’t take offense to it. I was just explaining why I wasn’t in the Dan Williams camp.
For the record, when you and I agree on a prospect, that is news. When we don’t, well that’s par for the course.
I don't really understand how we "disagree" on anyone here
I love McCourty. Have him above Wilson, ever so barely, because I think he’s a better fit for the scheme than Wilson. I’ve even grown on Wilson.
It’s not exactly a statement of hatred to have someone ahead of someone else on a draft board. It’s a difference in philosophy.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 13, 2010 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Well, you're saying we disagree on prospects.
I don’t think we do.
It’d be like if someone said you wanted to pick Dan Williams first and you didn’t. i.e. deserving of clarification.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 13, 2010 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Not on here...
But on emails, you have said in the recent past that you didn’t like Kyle Wilson. I was going off of that. My apologies. I didn’t know you had changed your stance on him. That was all I meant by it.
on that note
why aren’t the Texans dropping false rumors about Haden/Thomas? There is no downside to leaking that kind of “info”. I mean, don’t we all value winning more than ethics? Or is that just me?
The Texans don't work out everybody they like
They never worked out Duane Brown. And the possible smoke on Ryan Mathews (per BFD and mine’s almost identical posts) is likely trying to bait someone (S.D. comes to mind) to trade up for him. Otherwise, the only 1st round prospects they’ve worked out as far as I’ve heard is Mathews and Iupati. And if Smithiak is using Pancakes to plant false leads, he had a write up in the paper today about Cornerbacks the team would be interested in. McCourty and Wilson are two of them.
I like McCourty and Wilson
But not as much as Williams, Thomas, or Haden. Fortunately, I suspect that the Texans won’t be looking at all five of them and in that case I’m fine with both of them as I believe they both have the potential to excel in our system. But if we pass on Williams at 20, I am going to be hacked.
Obviously, this is because I do subsribe to the NT/DT theory. I personally feel like if we improve our pass rush, that does more to help our secondary than drafting a player who, while talented, is probably not going to step in and be an elite corner immediately. Short of Wilson of McCourty instantly turning into Scrabble or Revis, I just don’t think that they’re going to make an impact if Peyton Manning or even Alex Smith has all day in the pocket to wait for a recveiver, tight end, or running back (because why would you ever havean RB block against us?) to get open. Far better to force them to get the ball out quickly. Although deficient, I think our secondary has flashes of competence. But not 30 seconds of it.
Mario does not a pass rush make on his own, as the past few years have demonstrated. We’ve made improvements, but we’re just not quite there yet. In addition, while there are many serviceable corners in later rounds, I don’t think as many quality defensive lineman are available in later rounds because the position, especially NT, suffers considerable dropoff after round 1.
Of course, deep down inside I too know that these arguments won’t matter when we draft Ryan Mathews…
Even though I think D-Will is going at 12 to Miami
I will say that I won’t be kicking my TV is he is there at 20 and Houston takes him. I am just saying that if I was making the pick, I go first round CB.
I will say
I might think about picking Haden over Williams, but I’m with you, no way Haden is around at 20.
I think Haden is in the top 5
of all the players in the top 19 likely to fall.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I don't think you know Bob McNair very well
Joe Haden and a Singapore hooker on the eve of the draft?…I believe that like I believe he has elite speed.
Okay, there is a big potential for Wilson or McCourty. I like McCourty because he would be the Texans answer to the Titan’s Fightin’ Leprechaun.
On the flip-side, Dan Williams would be the golden handshake for Jeff Zgonina…hmmmm, which do I prefer…? Seeing how there is no Dan Williams in round 2, I am going with DanW.
There will be options at CB in round 2.
So, thx for your years of service, Cankles, but we have to put you out to pasture….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Apr 13, 2010 10:13 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
You don't like
Lamaar Houston or possibly Mount Cody in the 2nd? Maybe even Jared Odrick falls. Cam Thomas for UNC could be a 2nd or 3rd round pick, too.
Lamaar Houston is a different kind of player from DWill
I don’t think Cody will fall all the way to 51 in the 2nd.
You can throw those 5 or 6 or 7 CBs in a barrel and pull one out and they are basically the same value.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Plus Cody reminds me too much of Frank Okam
His hustle and attitude takes a rest too often.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
I would say that Haden, McCourty, and Wilson are 1st round prospects
who have separated themselves from the rest. But after that, I think Rip has a point that the next 5 guys or so have their own advantages/disadvantages that they are about even.
My one concern is that what happens when we take a CB in the first then the best player available in the second is a CB? While I am not sure it would be the best move, I would not be opposed to it.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions
That's what I meant on the CBs
…actually, I think there are 5 to 7 premier OTs in this draft and they should take one of them in the first round. The run game will not significantly improve unless we get some athletes on the O-line. Screw DT and CB. Take one of your DTs that you mentioned in the 2nd round and one of the barrel-CBs in the 3rd round. Then Deji Karim in the 4th….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
We take a 2nd CB
and move GQ to FS halfway through the season when Eugene Wilson goes boom?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Have to have an insurance policy
I think it would be interesting if this happens. Because the FO could go FS in the second as well, but if they choose to go CB because BPA, I think it will tell us something about CQ.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions
If they took Wilson/McCourty in round 1...
and then a guy like Ghee in round 2….then they better had an idea of moving Quin to FS as opposed to using him in the nickel.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I would like a combo of McCourty and Ghee
and if the FO does that, they have to be thinking of moving CQ to FS. But again, only if the BPA in the second is another CB. Otherwise, I could see waiting until the fourth to grab another CB. I still like Myron Lewis.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree
We picked up Glover Quin in the 4th and now (somehow) he’s all the way up to #1 on the CB depth chart.
I’m not saying we should bank on a 2nd, 3rd or 4th round CB to be the answer at CB2, but I having a Dan Williams inside takes ALOT of pressure off the entire defense.
Dan Williams Impact (hopefully immediately but you never know):
1. Free up Mario to feast on one-on-ones
2. Allow Okoye to shoot the gap every play and cause turmoil in the backfield
3. Free up our top 5 linebacking core to swarm to the ball, unhindered
4. Allow DB’s to be more agressive in coverage by collapsing the pocket quicker and giving QB less time and room to throw
Of course this is a very ideal scenario but I think DWill can offer it.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 13, 2010 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't disagree, Leach
However it falls, we are going to get a hell of a player in the 1st round. This draft is incredibly deep and a lot of first round talent will be available in the 2nd round. My board in the first looks like this (I’m not adding Haden, as I have him a 0% chance of falling to 20):
1)Earl Thomas
2)Kyle Wilson
3)Devin McCourty
4)Dan Williams
I’m not going to be upset about ANY of those guys. And I won’t be crazy insane upset over the drafting of Iupati or Ryan Mathews. Smithiak has proven in the past that they understand this Draft thing better than I do, so if Mathews is their guy, I’ll be willing to give him a chance.
yeah
it all depends on what Smithiak perceives as our biggest need. They have undoubtedly gone back and watched every single snap of every game so if they decide that Ryan Mathews is our best option to improve the team, I guess we have to be optimistic that he’s the next Adrian Peterson.
but optimism is something we Texans fans are trained to feel, lest we all drown ourselves in bleach.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 13, 2010 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
If that is what you guys truly think of me...
I will hand in my resignation right now.
And I’m not kidding.
I don't see you felating VY anywhere
So I think you are safe.
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
He writes
Complete sentences- he’s light years ahead of Dickie Justice.
Walter Footbal Mock Draft updated yesterday:
Houston – Earl Thomas, S, Texas
Houston’s primary goal is to beat the Colts. They came close twice this year, but ultimately failed because of missed field goals and sloppy turnovers. However, their inability to stop Peyton Manning didn’t help matters. In those two contests, Manning was a combined 61-of-85, 562 yards, four touchdowns and three interceptions.
Eugene Wilson was placed on injured reserve in the middle of the season. Wilson has now missed 29 games in the last four years. The Texans can no longer count on him.
It’s close between Earl Thomas and Ryan Mathews, but I’m hearing the former would be the favorite to be picked here if both were available.
I wonder where they're hearing things from...
cause Pancakes doesn’t count.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Exactly
the reason the Texans need a big time spaceating NT on the line. Disrupt Mannings timing is the only way to stop them. If you can’t get to him he will pick you a part regardless of your secondary and who may be playing. Put him on his back, make him run for his life and that how you get the Colts off rythem and stand a chance at beating them. We are so close to having one of the best d-lines and LB core in the league. Don’t stop now. Put it together and dominate. If we could trade with the Charges I would soooooo take Weatherpoon in the first and Linval or Cody or Cam Thomas in the second and best available CB in the 3rd and Hardesty in the 4th if he’s there and if not either Gerhart or Blount.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
They also have us taking a DT in the 4th round
D’Anthony Smith, DT, Louisiana Tech
The Texans are really hurting in the interior of their defensive line.
Never heard of him.
He's another under-tackle....
6’2’’, 305 pounds…..coming off a season where he had 51 tackles, 5.5 for a loss, and 3.5 sacks…….
"Lord, beer me strength."
Yep
Be shocked if we don’t add yet another okoye-clone in the later rounds if we pass in the first.
AAAaaaaah.
Space-eating NTs don’t get to the quarterback.
This team needs to find a way to force turnovers and get off the field on 3rd-downs. Will having a better DT than Shaun Cody benefit us? Yes. But it doesn’t have to be a lumbering prototypical 3-4 NT. If I’m an offensive coordinator looking at the Texans’ defensive line including Dan Williams, when it comes down to it, I’m still gonna throw my extra blocker(s) on Mario.
There’s plenty of synergy in football, but it’s not Bizarro World. The best way to improve your pass rush is to draft a pass rusher, not a run-stopper.
But we also need to improve our run stop as well
If this team can shorten the amount of yards team get in first and second down, it would put more teams into passing situations which would theoretically help them get off the field on third downs and put the team into more possibilities for turnovers. I am more for a run stopping DT because we could not stop the Jags and Titans from running the ball last season.
And if the offense does not put an extra blocker on the NT, he should be able to push his blocker into the backfield which means the QB would have to move. So the offense will have to keep more people in to block causing less people out on routes or going to quick passes which mean small chunks of yards if completed.
Plus, I would add that Dan Williams is pretty good at getting in the backfield, so it’s not like he is JUST a run stopper. But even if we grabbed some prototypical 3-4 NT outside of the first round, we would probably see more like last season where the third down passing situation D-line looked like Mario, Smith, Okoye, Barwin.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I guess I don't know a wholeo lot about Dan Williams.
If he’s the next Ngata, then I’m all for it. But I don’t envision him coming in and immediately (read: within the next 3 years) being an upgrade in every aspect. I suspect he’d be a two-down player at best, and given our track record with DTs… Well, who knows? But what I can say is that we have an immense amount of draft picks and money invested in the D-line, whereas the cupboard runneth bare when it comes to the secondary.
And yes, Chris Johnson and MJD ran all over us… But most teams in the league would say the same exact thing about themselves. When it comes down to it, it’s a pass-happy league. I trust Cushing, DeMeco, and Pollard to stop the run. We need somebody who can make a play on the ball (particularly in red-zone passing situations), or somebody who can bust through an OG and get to the QB quick-like.
I won’t throw a hissy-fit if they draft Dan Williams, but I’d much prefer a CB.
Nice read, Mike
If I were building my big board for Houston it’d go
Haden, D. Williams, Wilson, McCourty at the top….
I’m not on the Earl Thomas bandwagon. I don’t think you draft him to be a CB and believe Burnett, Major Wright, Robert Johnson, and Myron Lewis all can be good FSs. I actually wouldn’t mind if it went Wilson/McCourty then Burnett.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I haven't read any of the comments in here
so if it’s already been touched upon or brought up, I apologize for being repetitive.
I enjoy most of your post Kerns and most of the time we share the same opinion. Im not taking an issue with your position on drafting CB’s, as long as we draft defense first; I have no complaints.
Only problem I really had with the whole thing was this:
Yes, our pass rush is lame. But the myth that if we get a DT/NT that can magically turn Amobi Okoye into a good player by playing next to him is going to make our secondary better is just that…a myth.
It’s not a myth man. It’s simple football. And we’ve talked about this before. A DT/NT that can occupy a blocker or two would make Okoye more effective and make it easier for him to penetrate and collapse the pocket, which in turn would make the secondary better because the opposing QB would have less time to throw the ball.
Of course there’s no guarantee that it will automatically turn Okoye in to a Probowler, but it can certainly assist his progression.
This.
Sorta.
I’ve turned into ‘guy who sits on fence’ for this argument. First and formost, I don’t think either of my top 2 choices (Thomas and Williams) will be around when pick #20 rolls around. Would I love to have either of those two guys in Texans colors next year? Hell yes, I just don’t see it happening in a real world draft.
I’ve always been a subscriber to the theory that football games are won or lost in the trenches. What a game boils down to in the end is who’s line makes more plays throughout the game. From that approach, Dan Williams is the best pick, hands down. It doesn’t really matter what he does for Amobi as much as it matters what he does for creating space for the rest of the line that have shown they CAN make plays to actually do it. If Amobi manages to get his head out of his ass and grow up in that process, even better.
All that said, I think the Texans D could ‘make do’ is they had a playmaker and general running the backfield. Earl Thomas could very possbly be that kind of player, and that’s why I think he would be a great asset as well. There are decent guys playing CB for the team, and I think that a good/great FS would only make them look better and better. I mean, the Offense has had a crappy line, but because of a few playmakers (mainly Schaub and AJ) we have an almost stupid good team playing on that side of the ball.
Looking back at those last few paragraphs though, it’s all pretty much just a fantasy. I mean, odds are that we have just as good a chance of that happening as Suh dropping to 20, and CJ Spiller dropping to us in the 2nd.
As long as my little fantasy isn’t going to work, what’s written up at the top of the page here is as good as any realistic screnario, I suppose.
i don’t think there’s that much of a leap from Dan Williams to Linval Joseph or Torrell Troup who we can get in the 3rd maybe.. they are all big bodies who would do the same kind of work. Remember that Dan Williams really only was disruptive this season.. so we just have to cross our fingers that he’s not a one season fluke.
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
It depends on your definition of disruptive
Yes, he appeared more disruptive this season, but he has put up pretty good stats all throughout college.
2009: 61 tackles, 9 QB hurries, 8.5 TFL, 2 sacks
2008: 48 tackles, 9 QB hurries, 8 TFL, 1 sack
2007: 40 tackles, (couldn’t find), 6.5 TFL, 2 sacks
So while his best season was last season when he played for Monte Kiffin, I would not say that it was a fluke.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
How did his snap count compare
through those 3 seasons?
I tried finding that and I couldn't find anything that agreed with the other sources
so I decided to keep it out. From what I saw, pretty much he played as much in the 2009 season as much as the 208 season, but much less in 2007.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
I am a fan of both Wilson and McCourty. but I am leaning more towards McCourty lately. The more I read about him, the more of a bad ass I think he will be.
Granted, I would love to have a space eater in the middle(D. Williams), but I don’t think that will happen. Maybe in the later rounds, but then again I don’t see us going with a big body even though it would be amazing. I would rather have someone with a motor and talent in the later rounds, then just a big body.
Earl Thomas won’t be there for us. If he is, that means UT/Texans fans through a ton of coins in Littlefield Fountain.
I will be a happy camper if we grab any of the above players. If we take Mathews, there will be hate mail galore.
Do those of y'all who advocate spending our 3rd 1st rounder in like 5 years on another DT
have any concern for our ability to develop rookie DLmen? Until that side of the line develops one single player close to their potential, I just assume give them value players.
I also can’t help but ask how many extra games would we have won last year with Dan Williams on the squad…I would suggest fewer extra wins than had we had a stud Center/Guard or 1st round RB (kicker too). Not to say that we should go OL or RB in the first per se, but I think this linchpin theory has been tried with Mario, Okoye, Smith & Travis Johnson and still no pass rush. I am not saying abandon it, but our past should give cause for pause in throwing another 1st rounder into the DL, especially in light of the other facets of the team that haven’t sniffed 1st round talent in years (if ever).
Umm
not exactly sure at what you are getting at with your defense against the linchpin theory since Travis Johnson was not drafted by Smithiak, so he does not work for this discussion of whether this team can develop D-linemen. Second, Johnson was not see as a linchpin of a DT in the Smithiak era that the D-line needs, so there is still a hole. Plus, Johnson was traded last season during preseason. The line last season was Mario, Okoye, Cody, and Smith. So we have never had the linchpin theory before. However, even Rick Smith pointed out that DTs take time to develop. On top of that, the team changed defensive coordinator and D-line coach last season. To say that they cannot develop talent after one year would be foolish. Okoye is the only player in question as to whether this staff can draft talent and develop it. But after only being in the new system for one season, the youth of Okoye, and the length and money in his contract, it is too early to give up on Okoye.
However, the D-line is more than just pass rush. While we ranked pretty well in run defense after week 4, we still got gouged by the rushing attacks in our division. That is my main concern. We have to stop the teams in our division to make it to the playoffs.
However, I would like to know why you think Mario Williams has not lived up to his potential.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh a 1st round RB would add to the win total?
I bet the Colts love that they drafted Donald Brown last year….him and his 250 yards despite being in a pass-happy offense….
"Lord, beer me strength."
since when
does the fact that we drafted 2 DL guys that didn’t or haven’t panned out yet change the fact that they’re EXACTLY WHAT WE STILL NEED. Football is football, just because you made a couple draft mistakes doesn’t mean you throw your hands up and say “fuck it lets get an RB this time”.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 14, 2010 8:52 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Yes, thank you
If you need a DT, draft a DT. Don’t just cry in your beer, lament your mistake and stop drafting at that position because you’re afraid your going to bust. DT is a need position. Texans do need to draft at that position.
Last year, they lost a starter, albeit a starter that was a bust in Travis Johnson. They filled that spot with journeyman Cody, who did not let the team down, but did not excel either. Also, ancient Zgonina actually got significant playing time! THAT needs to change. I’m sorry Ziggy, but your time has come. If you are in a Texans uniform next season, I will marry bfd’s grandmother. No wait, I’ll BASE jump off the 1,002 ft JP Morgan Chase Tower. No, no, no, I know….I’ll try out for the Texans and beat you out for your DT spot! Yes, that’s what I’ll do!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
The problem is...
If you need a DT right now, drafting one most likely does not help you. If you want a DT 3-4 years from now? Hells yea, have at it. But DT is not one of the select positions that routinely comes into the league and plays at a high level right away.
True
but if he can collapse the pocket or take on double teams then that frees someone else up to make the play then I am beyond happy. If he can at least get a decent push and force the QB to roll out then you have a chance of Mario, Antonio or Barwin can get to them off the edge. The DT doesn’t have to get the sack numbers all he has to do is disrupt the play. If he can contribute with sacks later on that’s ok too. We just need someone to disrupt things and if one of the other guys makes a play based on that then we are much better off as a team. You need a guy that demands a double team or who can physically push his guy back off the ball.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
Much like Barwin...
In the kid’s rookie year, we just need him to do ONE THING well. Whatever that one thing might be… It should be instantly better than what we’ve been trotting out there on those downs.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
I'm pretty sure, and this is also compatible with you strategy
You say if you need a DT in what?, 3-4 years?, then draft one. Well, based on your drafting strategy the Texans ought to draft 3 or four DTs, RIGHT NOW! Because all of their DTs have had there 3-4 years of development time and I’d say they have peaked out. How’s them apples?
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
This
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 14, 2010 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I would love to have a badass NT
There’s just one problem with that….there aren’t that many that are dominant enough to do what we are hoping for out there. It’s even tougher to find one fresh out of college who is going to be able to do it right away. Even if we do draft one he’s likely to take a couple years to develop. I can’t think of one rookie NT who was able to plug up the running lanes in the middle, collapse the pocket consistently, and basically command double teams all day long. I think expectations are out of whack in some sense.
Even if we do go get a good space eating nose chances are he’s going to rotate out on third downs as Smith bumps down inside and Barwin comes into the game. If he doesn’t it’s likely that he’s more of 3 technique than a true nose anyway….because guys who can excell at both roles are very rare.
I am NOT saying we shouldn’t even bother with a big NT type guy. Just that it’s easier to say we need one than it is to actually find one. There just aren’t that many guys that can do everything we want them to do. I would still love to have one (and I thought Okam might end up being the one dammit) and someone like Dan Williams might be that guy. I don’t claim to know if he is or isn’t, but I wouldn’t be upset if we drafted him at all. In fact I would be excited….but I would also be preparing myself for the inevitable calls of bust mid-way through his second training camp if not earlier.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Apr 13, 2010 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Outta the ballpark!
I’d never really thought of it that way, but you are absolutely right… the guys we want DON’T just come right out of college as baddasses… it takes 2-3 years to get them there.
Completely agree about wanting one anyway, and being excited if we get a Williams-type (because you gotta start somewhere, and if someone else develops him, he’d cost a shitload more). Of course, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’ve got exponentially more patience and level-headed-ness than many here, when it comes to expectations of a player, so I would completely expect the “bust” calls about 2 years premature, much like they’re doing with Amobi.
Attaboy, papa!
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Fair point on expectations
But I think people would settle for 2 of 3. I also think most people would settle for “signs of life” in the rookie year compared to the corpses that clog the middle now.
However, just to be controversial….Haloti Ngata says “hello”.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 13, 2010 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
good example
He’s a stud. I would have been thrilled to have him here. Looking at stats for a player like Ngata is moronic IMO, but just for arguments sake lets say he put up similar numbers (124 tackles/ 6.5 sacks) in Houston over the last four years and Houston put up similar win totals with him in this make believe scenario. I guarantee people would be talking about how Ngata’s OK against the run, but we need a pass rushing DT who can get to the QB. I would perfectly happy if we just added a guy with one out of three, a run stuffing NT. Even if he rotates out on passing downs.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Well people are always going to complain about tackles
In fact, I’d say 90% of the “don’t take him” arguments I’ve read for big nose tackles the last few years revolve around “this guys effort/motor runs hot and cold!” Well guess what? A lot harder to keep your effort meter running when you’re dragging an extra 50-60 pounds on you every play. Lets see you put that on and try performing athletic tasks comfortably for a long time, you know?
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 13, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
^^ Sorry for the repetition
I posted my response before reading these.
"380 pounds of pure pirogi" ~ Cush
All good points
That argue for using a third-rounder on Kollar’s type of DT – tall, light and quick. There’s much less pressure on a later pick to produce right away. Plus, that’s still in the optimum value range.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 13, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Two criticisms
First, you make the assumption DWill couldn’t come in and be better than the crap we had at NT last year.
Two: We have to pull the trigger on a guy like this at some point. Drafting the Frank Okam’s of the world has worked out predictably well.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Don't really disagree
We have never had a true NT since we went to a 4-3. For whatever reason they don’t seam to want one now. I’m all for having quick guys on the line. I would just prefer 1 big hoss anchoring the middle with 3 quick guys around him. The Texans (mainly Kollar’s history) don’t seem to agree. So all this might be a moot point anyway.
I think we need one and I don’t care if he comes in the first or out of a dumpster behind a Chinese buffet. I just think people sometimes get carried away with thinking that one position is the key. Then convincing themselves that a certain player is the perfect guy for the job, and that anything else is just wrong. Not talking about anyone in particular, just in general….although I considered bringing up how much MDC hated Cushing.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Best suggestion yet! Draft the Chinese buffet’s dumpster to play NT!
by HoustonTransplant on Apr 13, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Aaaannnd... you lost me.
A couple more good points, papa, until “For whatever reason they don’t seam to want one now.”
I wish people would stop speculating as to what the staff wants, or WILL do. Unless we’re in those meetings, we don’t know.
Now, if the only DT’s drafted by this FO over the next 2-3 years are Amobi clones, I’ll eat all the crow in the world, but the evidence and track record is not there to support either side.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
It is just a guess
…but every guy that has been brought in has been more of a 3 technique/1 gap type DT (other than Okam who can’t get on the field). Kollar’s history is with “quick” d-lineman and they have talked about wanting guys who can move along the front four. Your right that I don’t know what they are thinking though. I’ve mellowed out quite a bit about the draft mainly because I realized I just don’t have, and never will, all the information that the staff does on draft day. That doesn’t mean they are always right, or that I rescind my rights to criticize, bitch, or whine about it. It just means with all of thousands of man hours of game tapes, interviews, and workouts that they are in a better position to make an informed decision.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Well, here's a peek into the thoughtprocess? Maybe? Courtesy of Yahoo....
Defensive tackle: Amobi Okoye and Shaun Cody can’t rush the passer. They’re good against the run, but they don’t get consistent heat on the quarterback. The Texans need either a monster nose who can tie up two blockers or a one-gap tackle with quickness off the ball to get into the backfield. If they find somebody they like in the first three rounds, they’ll draft him.
"Lord, beer me strength."
quick one-gap tackles
In the early rounds:
Brian Price, UCLA
Geno Atkins, Georgia
Tyson Alualu, Cal
in the later rounds:
Earl Mitchell, Arizona
DAnthony Smith, Louisiana Tech
Corey Peters, Kentucky
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
Aside from Peters and Alualu....
all names I’ve heard attached to Houston.
I still believe Amobi could be the gap-shooter if there’s a NT….but if Price is there in the 2nd round….wouldn’t complain. He used to be a 1st round pick.
Same concept (1st round talent, falling) goes for Donovan Warren (in the 4th) and Trevard Lindley (in the 6th).
"Lord, beer me strength."
HMMMM
I think this another case of any lineman without sack numbers getting labeled as good against the run. I don’t consider Okoye good against the run. I don’t think he’s necessarily bad, and he has gotten better since he first got here….but he still gets pushed around way too much in the run game.
I don’t know who wrote that, but it seems to me that it is a case of a guy who has only seen bits and pieces of Texans games just making a general statement without really studying the play of either Okoye or Cody. I don’t disagree with the needs part, but I’ve heard several times now that “Okoye” is good against the run and I often wonder where it comes from. Not trying to start an Okoye bashing session. I still think he could develop (but the window is closing).
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
And he does a better job penetrating and shooting gaps
Yeah, I think it’s just a bad write-up.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
The Okoye bashing session is coming....
Last year between May and September, Okoye was a major focus on this blog. I don’t see where anything has changed since then. He is still teetering on the edge of bustland. If the Texans draft a DT in the 1st or 2nd round, which is very likely, then the conversation starts up all over again. Because, if that happens speculation will overflow on the subject: Will Okoye finally become the player he was drafted to be because he has a quality DT next to him? Can’t wait. We will talk about that subject all summer.
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
Re: Kollar
Was he the GM of the Bills too?
Did the Bills have a pretty bad run of talent/drafts for a long time?
Did the Bills bring in Sam Adams during Kollar’s tenure? (this one I actually don’t know about, but it sounded like their times synched)
My point is, Kollar’s past history with teams tells us little to nothing about what Smithiak will do.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Did we have a true NT
When we were in the 3-4? I sort of thought the lack of one was part of the problem (one of many).
Goo'd
For speaking my mind.
Haloti Ngata is the only person in recent years I can remember fitting what you describe, although his stats may not reflect it. I just seem to remember a ton of buzz about his rookie campaign. [/end vague conjecture]
"380 pounds of pure pirogi" ~ Cush
I think
That both sides of the argument are valid points. To go CB first and grab someone like Linval Joseph later would be fine. Or DWill in first and Ghee in second. Personally I just want the draft to get here already. Maybe because I’ll be down in Myrtle playing golf next Thursday through Sunday HA!
But I digress, I’m at the point now that if Smithiak went all defense in the first FOUR rounds, I wouldn’t care. Just as long as Houston goes 4+ wins in the division this year.
Just imagine: CB, NT, FS, CB. Drop the dead weight on the roster. Oh and get Brandon Carter in 5h the dude AllenOU has been touting in 6th (the RB whose name I shall not mention).
by HoustonTransplant on Apr 13, 2010 3:51 PM CDT reply actions
as a longhorn
i would love Earl Thomas to be a Texan, but if hes there and they pass on him for a CB im not going to be mad. I think its our weakest position on the team and McCourty to me seems like a guy who isnt going to be a bust
living the Texas dream
So who is better?
Devin McCourty or Kyle Wilson?
Not who is a better fit, but which one is the actual better player?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 5:10 PM CDT reply actions
From what I've read...
Wilson is better right now, McCourty has better upside.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong
My read
Wilson is the better overall player, but can be a gambler. McCourty is steadier and better for the things the Texans do.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 13, 2010 7:00 PM CDT up reply actions
as a Singaporean...
Ain’t nothing wrong with Singapore hookers.
Thai hookers though – those are the dubious ones.
by Tris X P on Apr 13, 2010 7:05 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
The things you learn on BRB
Are the differences between Singaporean and Thai noticeable?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 13, 2010 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions
There's a punchline in there somewhere....
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
As long as it's a punch to the ovaries
…then I agree
by Autra on Apr 14, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yeah thai hookers are def dubious?
85% are boys the are 15% are girls who used to be boys
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
you were watching bfd's filipino tranny porn again weren't you?
by HoustonTransplant on Apr 14, 2010 3:48 AM CDT up reply actions
i thought it was regular porn...
so i got out the lotion, but after 5 mins i started drinking the lotion hoping it would kill me right then you can’t burn those kind of images out of your head.
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
HAHA!
Anybody remember that DGDB&D was the #1 ranked site on google for the search: filipino tranny hooker?
Damn, those were the days.
@HoustonTransplant: I keep that shit encrypted. Do you know how hard it is to explain that to your wife? Sheesh.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Apr 14, 2010 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
/remembers good old days
//sits on porch
///yells random obscenities at the cars driving by
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Technically
They were Hmong.
You racist bastard
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Interesting point
What’s the over/under on a murder-suicide involving Soccty & Vega?
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
Linval Joseph
I believe is our answer. He’s big but can move really well for his size. Great motor, good size…and i believe if you plug him in there between antonio smith and amobi, he’ll tie up blockers, occasionally collapse to the QB and play the run solid. Kollar can have his “active, quick and tall guy” and we can atleast have somewhat of our “space eater”.
and I base this purely on YouTube videos where he’s ravaging C-USA teams.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 14, 2010 9:00 AM CDT reply actions
I was buying into the hype until your last sentence...
sarcasm??? Don’t know much about Joseph other than BFD and some others like him but when you said ravaging C-USA teams I had to pause and think. I hate it when I have to do that.
Confucius says "man who stands on toilet, high on pot".
Thinking sucks
MDC and I have been looking for real tape on Joseph. Yeah, it’s CUSA stuff, but he’s still huge and quick.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
If you find tape on him...
throw it up.
I know he’s a freak but I’d love to see A) how fast he fires out of his stance B) if he stays low or not and C) how he uses his hands.
"Lord, beer me strength."
best i have found
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
The tape ain't great
But the assmass just hits you right in the jaw.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 17, 2010 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
like i said best i could find...
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
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