Why I Crush On Large DTs - UPDATED
by bigfatdrunk on Apr 26, 2010 12:10 PM CDT
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Above is the "fabled" Williams Wall of the Minnesota Vikings. There's a reason why the Vikings was the hardest team to rush against in 2009 and were fourth in 2008: It's because of the two gentleman above.^
And here I go, nursing at PFF's statistical teats once again to prove my point. My hypothesis is that the best DT run-stoppers are also those the are quite large, meaning bigger than Earl Mitchell's listed 296. Looking at the Top Ten DTs graded against the run last year, we have the following leaders, along with their listed weight:
- Sione Pouha - NYJ - 325
- Pat Williams - MINN - 317
- Kelly Gregg - BALT - 315
- Vince Wilfork - NE - 325
- Brodrick Bunkley - PHI - 306
- Jay Ratliff - DAL - 303
- Ahtyba Rubin - CLE - 330
- Aubrayo Franklin - SF - 317
- Colin Cole - SEA - 330
- Terrance Knighton - 325
A couple of the weight listings up there are a joke. Williams and Gregg are much closer to 330, and Wilfork looked a lot closer to 380 than 325 in his suit when the Pats visited us last year (in fact, he has to meet weight standards to get certain bonuses). Of the group listed above, only Ratliff would I consider to be thriving off his quickness versus his pure size. Bunkley is close, but he excels with strength above quickness. Otherwise, the list above is entirely beef.
Think 2009 is a meaty outlier? Let's see:
- Jamal Williams - SD - 350
- Kyle Williams - BUF - 306
- Wilfork
- Bunkley
- Kevin Williams - MINN - 311
- Franklin
- Mike Patterson - PHI - 300
- Albert "Kitten Eater" Haynesworth - BESF - 350
- Ma'ake Kemoeatu - CAR - 345
- Ratliff
After looking at these lists, two things jump out at me.+ First, it's vitally important to have the last name of Williams (Dan Williams???). Secondly, beef wins. On the second list, Patterson and Ratliff rely on their quickness as opposed to pure strength or size, but they are the outliers. Again.
Once again, you have to wonder about the selection of Mitchell as opposed to other, glaring needs. It would not be specious to believe that Mitchell does not carry the size to be a one-technique; thus, the only real place for him is at the three and competing against Okoye. At NT, this still leaves us with Shaun Cody, who has proved beyond a reasonable doubt he's not the answer, and the Zombie Jeff Zgonina, who is still unsigned. The possibility of DelJuan Robinson is still out there, and he graded out at 17 in 2008.
So, before all of you here: Gimme the beef. I want my DTs to be large men (or Rosie O'Donnell sized) who are strong, take up a lot of space, demand multiple blockers, and make life hell for opposing offensive linemen. We may have taken a DT in the third round, but he does not address our needs there, and until we do something about it, we will pay for this problem.
Edit: Just because I'm talking about this AGAIN does not mean I'm done beating this dead horse. After all, a dead horse don't mind being beaten.
Edit2: More stats!
Running the numbers for Kollar's performance as a defensive line coach, we see a long string of mediocrity. Let's look (all rankings via FO):
| Year | Team | Team Rush Rank | Sacks |
| 1993 | ATL | 9 | |
| 1994 | ATL | 26 | |
| 1995 | ATL | 16 | |
| 1996 | ATL | 27 | 13 |
| 1997 | ATL | 21 | 3 |
| 1998 | ATL | 3 | 27 |
| 1999 | ATL | 26 | 6 |
| 2000 | ATL | 22 | 27 |
| 2001 | STL | 11 | 10 |
| 2002 | STL | 13 | 7 |
| 2003 | STL | 17 | 6 |
| 2004 | STL | 25 | 16 |
| 2005 | STL | 29 | 10 |
| 2006 | BUF | 30 | 6 |
| 2007 | BUF | 16 | 31 |
| 2008 | BUF | 21 | 28 |
| 2009 | HOU | 16 | 20 |
This averages out to a 19th ranked rushing defense and 15th in sacks. Of course, there are more than these variables that play a part in performance. Except for the tremendous outlier in 1998, the team rushing numbers against would be even worse. There are some fleeting moments in sack performance.
Overall, we are putting together a line that might have an occasional year with above average performance rushing the passer, but any expectations we will give much more than a fleeting effort in stopping the run are sorely misplaced. In my not-so-humble opinion, this trade-off is completely unacceptable when there are so many other things one can do to pressure the QB than have quick, defensive tackles who'll get eaten alive against the run.
^ http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef
+ 2007 is roughly the same and includes Shaun Rogers, another man-mountain.
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I would love a Bunkley
I just want someone who will consistently stop the run and strong enough that he demands double teams. I would love big space eating NT who could fill the Texans’ needs on the D-line. But if we HAVE to have a smaller DT, then at least get one that stops the run.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 26, 2010 12:25 PM CDT reply actions
I agree with you
but I think they got Mitchell for pass rushing more than run stopping. maybe run some lists on the best DT pass rushers and see what kind of beef they got.
Be judgmental about the actions of the past, be hopeful about the actions of the future. -The Homers Creed
This ^
They may be happy with loading the box with Pollard, as a solution for the run D. It worked out well outside of the first 3 games last year. Yes, Chris Johnson still ran for over a 100 yards, but that was ONE game. Mitchell will be the rotational guy for 3rd downs then. What I believe they are looking for is someone who can penetrate from the center, thus collapsing the pocket so that Mario can convert those hurries and pressures into sacks.
May Durga save us if Bonecrusher has to sit out for any reason.
Safeties and tackles
If our safety is making tackles, that’s a really bad thing. In addition, as I said during the original Mitchell post, you negate a lot of your LB strength by forcing them to fight through blockers. The fewer that get to that next level, the better off you are. You stop them by tying them up, which we can’t do.
Graded by rushing the passer:
Tony Brown – 290
Kevin Williams
Shaun Rogers
Albert Haynesworth
Jonathan Babineaux – 296
Israel Idonije – 270
Lorenzo Alexander – 297
Jason D. Jones – 280
Fred Robbins – 317
Tommy Kelly – 300
So, 6 out of 10. Not great correlation, but there’s something there. But of those six, only Babineaux and Jones were above average against the rush.
There’s a lot of logic of having one speed and one beef DT as they complement each other. We are missing the beefy part.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Apr 26, 2010 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Just did a post on this.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 26, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
^ ^ all of the above
Also, if I can read between the lines, if Mitchell gains just 9 LBs, he can join that list?
Hey, I have a great idea! You know how Vonta Leach is called “The Human Coke Machine?” Let’s get Mitchell in on some goal line plays as FB and we can call him “The Redbox!” …because he will be vending hits!
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on Apr 26, 2010 12:58 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
But there's a tradeoff
You don’t gain the 10lbs in a vacuum (and, quite frankly, many of these listed weights are low if you look at the actual player). When you gain the weight, there’s a chance you lose the quickness that made you successful. That’s certainly what Okoye is arguing, and he’s trying to back to 295, what he weighed when drafted, from his current 315ish. He believes the additional weight hurt his quickness, and it’s a rational argument.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Shanahan should love TEs as much as Kubiak
Send him a couple for Fat Albert?
I think you can add mass without losing quickness
It just takes away from your endurance.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 26, 2010 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I LOL'd @ RedBox & "vending hits"
Your puns do not go unappreciated. I love a good pun, and will show my appreciation when I come across them. Kudos.
JaMarcus Russell is at about 300 pounds and growing.
Let’s sign him.
Jokes aside, I am all for a “Williams” wall of our own. Henderson may soon be available and I’d love that.
However, Mr. Kollar doesn’t like big DTs. I don’t quiet get why though because, as we see with Indy, small DLine is great in pass rush but not so much in rush defense.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Whoa
Okoye was 4th in the league for DTs at QB pressures. Interesting.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
30th
But it’s still a negative grade.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Curious how he did against the run
General consensus seems to be that Mitchell will replace him on passing downs.
Weren't we pretty high up there as a team for QB pressures
despite not actually putting the QB on the ground much?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
High on QB pressures, low on sacks?
Seems to me he’s getting to the QB late, or needs help. Supports your “fat guy” argument, I think.
Fat guy or not
We need pressure from the middle so that QB can’t just step forward and out of Mario’s reach
Trends go both ways
Out of the 5 highest single sack seasons by DTs, the average playing weight of them was 283.6lbs, the heaviest being 292lbs.
In the entire History of the NFL 61 times DTs weighing less than 310 lbs recorded 10 or more sacks in a single season… While DTs listed over 310 lbs did so just 4 times.
So when the Texans set the goal of improving their pass rush at the DT positions, it stood to reason that they would draft a smaller pass rushing type of DT… Now if they had said “we want to control the point of attack and hold up interior blockers so our linebackers can make plays”, i’d expect we’d draft a large space eating NT…
I tend to think
That not drafting the big NT would put more of the run defense chores on our lb’s as opposed to the other way around.
IMO the big value of having the large NT is to allow Mario and others to feed off of single teams and to take a chunk of the field out of play in running situations.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
by tehGrindCrusher on Apr 26, 2010 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Just added some numbers above...
Which support your conclusion.
My conclusion, though, is that we are likely to get erratic year to year performance rushing the passer at the expense of stopping the run. This isn’t a trade-off I really like.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
How many of those are Warren Sapp?
Just curious.
Cause that’s really what we’re looking for. That’s who Bill Kollar wants.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Every database I look through has Sapp in the 300-305lb range… His weight fluctuated a bit, I know at one point as he was getting up in years he put on massive amts of weight then lost it again when he was with the raiders…
The player that i’d compare closest to Sapp this year was Brian Price… He’s athletic enough to shoot the gaps and has a low enough center of gravity to hold the point of attack against multiple blockers as well…
Which leads to a personal peave of mine… Everyone wants the 6’6" 350+lb nosetackle these days, but i’d rather have a 6’0" 300lb guy at the nose. It drives me nuts that even professional scouts and coaches completely overlook the advantage of having a low base at NT. Everyone wants the next Too Tall Jones, but those extra inches makes it easier for the offensive linement to get underneath and stand em up. A short squaty SoB, like an Elvis Dumervill, often are harder to push out of the way than those tall drinks of water, and you’re giving up what maybe 5-6 pass deflections per season?
I agree with you quite a bit here
I don’t really need a huge, monster guy. What I want is somebody who demands attention on the middle of the line who’s going to take away gaps and force double teams. This is what we lack in the middle.
Sapp was considered a large man coming out of school. He was drafted in 96, I believe. That’s a damn long time ago, and players have gotten bigger. But, as you mention above, Sapp was not tall, but he commanded respect being in the middle of the field, and he was as strong as an ox. So he was able to fill that role without being a monstrous freak. Bryan Price could possible be that player with his strength.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Apr 27, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Ah, thanks. Good stuff.
After it was apparent that they didn’t want Dan Williams (who does come with motor issues), I really changed my opinion to wanting someone who just commanded attention.
That’s why I was a bit angry that they didn’t take Geno Atkins (who they could’ve had with the 1st 4th as well as the 3rd). Atkins, while being 6’1’’ and 290 pounds, at least dominated a much larger and “better” prospect at the Senior Bowl.
Earl Mitchell may be fast, but every scouting report I read says “if the OL gets his hands on Mitchell then it’s over.” It’s a pick that puzzles me.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Not buying the historical argument
NFL linemen are getting progressively heavier. Those stats are pretty meaningless if there were several decades with few to no DTs weighing over 310.
Yes
I’m actually going to talk about the evolution of players and schemes on the podcast tonight. This specifically (with a huge h/t to Sir Rivers) is a major problem with being stuck in the early 90s.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Bill Kollar
Simply believes it is 1995. How else to explain his fascination with zombie Jeff Zgonina, small UTs?
From 1970 to 1999, there were 175 DTs in the NFL listed as being over 315 lbs, and most of 10+ sack seasons I listed seemed to be from the 80s and 90s with a few in this decade as well…, so it’s not as if the statistics were skewed greatly by the “good ol’ days” as gaudy sack numbers are a fairly recent development for various reasons ranging from the evolution of passing offense to longer regular seasons.
I would think you'd have to limit the scope of this research to the last 15-20 years.
Remember when 300 lbs offensive linemen was crazy? Remember how much attention the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys got for having an entire O-line with starters over 300 lbs? Men being athletic and heavy is a fairly new thing. John Randle was 287lbs.
I'm all for a hog DT
The fact is though that outside of the ugly first few games we did a pretty good job against the run last year. While just straight rushing ypg is not the best measurement we ranked 10th last year. Yards per rush was a more pedestrian 18, but it’s not like we we’re horrid against the run overall last year. I know some of the more in depth metrics aren’t as kind, but as much as I would like to have a true NT it’s not the end of the world.
I do think a big DT would make the other guys on the line better, while simultaneously keeping Demeco clean. It’s hard to get Kollar to change his preference for smaller and quicker on the line when they got decent results once they started executing his system properly. So while I’m always firmly in the camp of getting more meat on the line, I think this a case where it’s almost become a knee-jerk reaction that gets taken too far. Kollar has a history of using relatively small, but quick, defensive tackles. It might not be my dream lineup, but it is something that you can win with in the NFL.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Yes, we began to rank better after the first 3 games
but I see it as not good enough. Let’s not forget that Chris Johnson ran over 100 yards in both games and while some may say that he does that to every defense, is that really an acceptable answer for a team we play twice a year? So while we face the Colts twice a year, we face two rushing teams in the division. I want to make offenses one dimensional and since we did better at stopping the run than the pass, it would be easier to make a team one dimensional by stopping the run. Also by stopping the run, it puts the defense in a better possibility of being in a third and long.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 26, 2010 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Last 3 games against divisional teams
Starting with the last three games against teams in our division:
1. BESF’s – 228 yards rushing against the Texans
2. Indy – 114 yards rushing against the Texans
3. JAX – 107 yards rushing against the Texans
Conclusion: That still sucks as far as rush defense goes. Looks like we still struggle with divisional teams. Problem not fixed yet. Lost all 3 of those games. Only win against a divisional team was against BESF’s in week 2 when we gave up 4,000 yards to CJ and Vodka stumbled and dropped the ball after having a few at halftime (would have lost the game if there had been no vodka). Must. Compete. In. Division.
Confucius say "man who enter door sideways going to Bangkok".
That new chart?
What am I looking at? Is that sack totals for DTs (which would be impressive/half the time)? Because there is no way that an entire team can have only 3 sacks in an entire season. I believe the Chiefs set the record in 2008 for least amount of sacks in a season at 10.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 26, 2010 3:37 PM CDT reply actions
Sorry
Those are rankings. Last year, we ranked 16th against the rush and 20th in sacks, all adjusted.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Ah, then that is very unimpressive
Out of the 14 ranked years in sacks (supposedly his specialty), he ranked top ten half the time. What is boggling about those stats is how they rank high one year then low the next? Does that trouble anyone else?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 26, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
But it makes sense
I can see a great amount of fluctuation in sacks if you are inconsistent about getting to the QB, which I believe is a variable dependent upon the quality of the people you have.
But did you also notice the consistently poor run defense? That’s the erratic factor, here, and Kollar is looking to gain with quick DTs who likely add to the run defense problem. The teams ranked 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 against the rush all have giants anchoring their d-line, and it’s led by the Williams Wall.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
Sorry, I was not going to address how Kollar will contribute to Chris Johnson reaching 2000 yards again.
I’m trying to exploit the fact that Kollar’s strength is average at best. My point is that how often do your starters change year after year? If your team is ranking high in sacks, you would think that the team would keep those players for the next season to continue that production. So why is it going up and down every other year? I mean his only consistent stint was in St. Louis so is it possible that it was not the scheme that did well but the personnel he had at St. Louis?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 26, 2010 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you
but the best schemes in the world are only as good as the personnel. Of course the best scheme will get the most out of the available players. It’s also hard to gauge exactly how much influence Kollar has had at each stop along the way.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
I do not mean to say that it has to be one or the other
because a great defense needs good personnel as well as a great defense mind. But you think the Texans had the best defense in team history because of scheme, personnel, or both?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 26, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
All I can say is that these guys aren't stupid
It seems easy for anyone (including myself) to question WHY THE HELL they don’t want a big space eating pocket crushing DT and it seems like that would be a PERFECT compliment to Okoye. It all makes perfect sense to us but for some reason, It doesn’t make sense to our braintrust. They like smaller, active guys who constantly motor, drive quickly through the gaps and can chase down RBs in short distance. They don’t subscribe to the “FAT NT WILL CRUSH POCKET” theory and me or you might never agree with that.
Lets give it a game or 2 before we rip them yet another year for not getting the round mound that we all want. If the shit hits the fan and we give up 120 to joseph addai or something, then I will call for the head of Kollar and seriously doubt Smithiak has any idea how to draft for D line.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 26, 2010 3:43 PM CDT reply actions
additionally
they may have wanted Dan Williams, Brian Price, Linval Joseph..etc..but the way the draft shook out, they were set on addressing CB and RB in the 1st and 2nd. Mitchell was obviously the highest rated on their board at that point in the 3rd after all those guys and others were gone.
Anyone have a list of big DT prospects that were still on the board when we took Mitchell? That would put this pick into perspecticve a little more.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 26, 2010 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions
DTs picked after Earl Mitchell
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft#First_round
Corey Peters, Kentucky, #83
Texans pick Darryl Sharpton @ #102
Geno Atkins, Georgia, #120
Al Woods, LSU, #123
Cam Thomas, N. Carolina, #146
Arthur Jones, Syracuse, #157
NO DEFENSIVE TACKLES IN THE SIXTH ROUND
Sean Lissemore, William & Mary, #234
Ricardo Mathews, Cinci, #238
David Howard, Brown, #241
Dough Worthington, Ohio St., #242
Jeff Owens, Georgia, #243
Brandon Deaderick, Alabama, #247
Kade Weston, Georgia, #248
Notes: Three Georgia DTs went after we took Earl Mitchell. Lots of DTs went in the 7th.
Beating a dead horse
Geno Atkins would’ve been the better choice if they wanted a small DT.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Again, Not my preference
….but all indications are that they want the lineman to be responsible for one gap and to attack that gap with the focus on penetration. A big NT who can’t move doesn’t fit that concept.
Not saying I agree. I think that a true NT would let the other players we do have shine even brighter without the need to revamp our whole scheme.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Apr 26, 2010 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is just too good to pass up:
Chris from Dothan, ALChris from Dothan, AL:
John, why are the Texans ignoring the NEED to draft a huge DT like Cam Thomas or Linval Joseph and always go for an undersized DT who will not make an impact a la Okoye?
John McClain:
Why do they need a huge DT like Thomas? He’s a one-down player. He can’t rush the passer. Okoye and Cody played the run well last season. They need a DT who can rush the passer, not a one-down NT like the guys you mentioned.
He obviously has never seen how good Pat Williams makes Kevin Williams look.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Based on Angry Pancakes response to Chris
I would tend to think he doesn’t know who these Williams guys are that you speak of. I heard he wants to pick up Gerhart from the airport and drive him to the stadium so maybe he will meet them then???
Confucius say "man who enter door sideways going to Bangkok".
by Bobobigbro on Apr 26, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I've never heard of a one down player
There are two down players, and there are third down players, but rarely do you hear “one down player”.
Of course, this is Pancakes, so he probably just ate the other down.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 26, 2010 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Does pancakes realize how rare DT's who can rush the passer are?
Saying Cody and Okoye played the run well sounds like someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about so they just spout of the they must be “good against the run” because they don’t have sacks mantra.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Reality
Okoye ranked 81st by PFT. Cody 58th.
Pancakes seems to go out of his way to prove his incompetence.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
This is where I'd disagree.
Okoye, while not setting the world on fire as a pass rusher since his rookie season of 5.5 sacks, was more noticeable in the run game last year. We all, during the game threads, seemed to notice him a lot more than we did before.
"Lord, beer me strength."
yeah I wouldn't trust "rankings against the run"
it’s hard to quantify what a DT does in the run game. He might not rack up tackles, TFL, hurries, etc. but if he consistently penetrates enough to force the RB out of his desired running lane, opening up other lineman and LBs to make easy plays, he’s doing a good job. (this is what I think amobi does against the run).
I’m not sure how Cody was ranked higher than Okoye..
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 26, 2010 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions
he's definitely improved against the run
I still wouldn’t hold him up as a good model for stopping the run. The fact that he has continued to improve is one reason I haven’t given up on him.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Apr 26, 2010 7:28 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Both at leach and papa
This is supposedly precisely how PFF ranks. I agree that he seemed better against the run this year, though. Still, I try to remove bias when possible.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I would take...
his 2007 pass rushing steps and his 2009 run stopping….don’t care what PFF gives him, I’d definitely see that as great.
"Lord, beer me strength."
McClain
Would like you to know he thinks the Houston Oiler’s line was terrific last year, and he doesn’t understand why you keep going on about the internet, he just uses that AOL cd he got in the mail.
by JimboTexan on Apr 26, 2010 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Preach
The good word bfd, but I fear we are forever lost in the wilderness of smallish, sucky UTs. This draft really nailed that home, not so much with the Mitchell pick but with the Williams pass.
Secondary
But if we have a great secondary, wont the fact that the receivers take longer to get open meaning the QB has to ball longer leading to more sacks. I do wish we had a bigger guy in the middle but these guys are professional coaches and know what they are doing.
Well then maybe one day they'll either
A) Draft great secondary players
or
B) Sign great FA secondary players.
Confucius say "man who enter door sideways going to Bangkok".
That doesn't work as well as the other way around
Even Revis can only cover for so long. The best secondary in the world is still going to get picked apart if a QB has enough time.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
J-E-T-S
1. Revis
2. Cromartie
3. Kyle Wilson
4. Donovan Warren
Would you like me to discuss their front 7? I will refer you to the Texans Jets game last year for a visual.
They are FINISHING their D. We had the chance to make one helluva a defense and we go with Earl the Pearl Mitchell and Kareem Jackson. We got better by one player on D in this draft. Actually I would go as far to argue we are still in the same shape as last year on D. I hope first year CB Jackson pans out but if you are expecting much more from him this year than we got from Dunta last year that might be a mistake. I know what you’re trying to say (and I do agree) but the fact is we really didn’t add to our D in this draft. Now that I’m writing this I feel even worse about our draft than I did before. I think our D is the exact same as last year except Jackson will be out there instead of Dunta and I really don’t think it will make too much of a difference.
Confucius say "man who enter door sideways going to Bangkok".
All the CBs in the world can't keep up with our TE heavy sets
That’s the true genius of Smithiak.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I love your resolve on this point...
but its pointless. Smithiak said they dont like fat guys up front and wont draft or sign guys who cant move. Whine as much as you want about wanting a huge DT, but the simple fact is that as long as Kubes is here, we wont have one.
The argument is used alot, but stats can mislead. Maybe Kollar’s d lines are mediocre in terms of rush D and sacks, but if the defense keeps the opponents out of the end zone, they are doing their job. You think fat guys are the best way to stop the run, Kubiak thinks less fat, movable guys are the best for an entire defense. The defense with Pollard showed that Kubes’ way can work.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
How is it pointless?
To argue against something you disagree with?
You can love the Texans and still hate their defensive philosophy.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 26, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
There is no defensive philosophy.
We have definitely done a good job of discerning that.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Let me rephrase that then...
its pointless to hope we will sign a huge DT. Arguing is fine, thats what this site is for, but Im just trying to make sure bfd doesnt think he could actually change something by arguing non stop about it.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Apr 26, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to think my endless rantings against Ryan Mathews...
showed San Diego that Rick Smith really wanted him and that’s why they paid out the ass to move up to 12 and draft the guy.
/dream
/start reality
"Lord, beer me strength."
It's not pointless though.
If people didn’t point out problems, things would never change.
I’m not saying BFD is delusional enough to think Rick Smith is reading every word intently and saying “Yes, OF COURSE! I’m a fool!” but by your logic, nobody should ever fight any establishment media figure and we should all just go back to reading John McClain and being outraged that Toby Gerhart isn’t a Texan. There’s definitely something to be said for putting a viewpoint out there, no matter how unpopular it is with the people that (for the moment) matter.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 26, 2010 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions
My logic says know what you can change
I guess you didnt read the last line of my post because you would have gotten that.
Everyone has the right to share their opinons, but everyone here already knows bfd wants some fat guys up front. All he did in this post was restate what he has said millions of times and (like everyone) only find the stats that back up his point. I guess bfd’s first “edit” was directed at me because thats all this post was to me, bfd proclaming his love for fat men AGAIN.
If people didn’t point out problems
Problem is an odd word there…bfd thinks he is pointing out a problem, but others (myself included) dont think not having fat guys is a problem.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Apr 27, 2010 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I know my kvetching is futile
But it doesn’t mean I’m going to stop.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
I never expected you to, thats what blogs are for
I didnt know if you had known that Kubes said they dont want fat guys on their team, so I was letting you know in case you hadnt.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Apr 27, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Then let's rephrase?
Do you think the Texans’ run defense is good?
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 27, 2010 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I know the Texans run defense was much improved after we added Pollard
All numbers back that up and some show our run d with Pollard as top 5.
I dont think our defense is any worse than last year, because we didnt lose anyone besides Dunta, and the team should have a better understanding of Bush’s defense because it will be the 2nd year in it. I would have liked to see Smithiak draft a FS that could compete for the starting spot, but I dont want a huge DT. The only place I see this defense going based on the factors (lots of young guys, young pro bowl captains, another year in the same system) is up.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Apr 27, 2010 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
And do you think this run defense that is much improved and not worse than last year
by riversmccown on Apr 27, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Its such a subjective answer though
Good in these terms probably means different things to us but personally I do think the rush d is good. Its not great, but with our offense we dont need it to be great. All we need is an above average defense (like last year) and our normal offense to win. The problem last year was finishing games more so than either side of the ball.
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Apr 27, 2010 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
A big problem last year was trouble holding on to a lead
which was due to poor running, and conservative play calling. I would say the defense overall was improved in the sense that there were multiple games where they kept us in games while our offense sputtered. Don’t remember that happening much in the years past.
Our knowledge of bfd's opinion on DTs is because of our participation in the comments section.
I’d venture to guess that 90% of the visitors to this site don’t read the comments. And at any rate, a separate post allows bfd to make his case in full, put it in front of more eyes (few people are going to scrounge the comments), and sort it all out neatly.
There’s also something to be said about the asymmetry created when someone creates a blog post vs. a tit-for-tit exchange in a comments section.
good point
I bet its a lot less 90% that doesnt read the comments, but either way your point still stands. At the same time though, the people who dont read the comments wouldnt know that we have beaten this topic to a pulp and that Smithiak doesnt like fat DTs (which is a large part of an argument regarding fat DTs on the Texans).
To all Houston sports fans, Houston is the 4th biggest city in America, there will be traffic on the way to your respective sports game. Come Early, Be Loud, Stay Late.
by TexasHoosier on Apr 27, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions
wow! for me, the comments are some of the best parts of BRB ;-)
Y’all are seriously hilarious in your comments. It’s part of what makes BRB so fun to read =)
I can’t imagine the visitor experience for those who don’t read the comments. It just sounds bland.
by BattleRedFan on Apr 27, 2010 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Just tryin' to help a brutha out
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
by bigfatdrunk on Apr 27, 2010 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions
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