Changing The Game: Unless You're The Houston Texans And "The Game" Is Nose Tackle
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For the last few offseasons, many Texans fans have clamored for the team to bring in a true nose tackle. Your Houston Texans management team has answered that clarion call with an extended middle finger silence. Why? Theories abound after the jump.
A few days ago, TGC hypothesized that Kubes' system relies far more on the linebackers, as opposed to the defensive line, to stop the run. That mentality doesn't necessarily jibe with a traditional 4-3 scheme, but it would somewhat explain the Texans' repeated reluctance to bring in a planetoid nose tackle. So that's one possible justification.
Another is that Bill Kollar has sold Kubes and/or Frank Bush on the notion that small, quick defensive tackles are better options than a space-eating nose tackle. I presume that sales pitch involved repeated "action shots" of Frank Okam. Speaking of...
I mentioned this in a comment the other day, and I figured I'd throw it out here to stir up some more discussion. Is it possible that the Texans' experience with Frank Okam soured this regime on the idea of Casey Hampton/Shaun Rogers/Dan Williams/Terrence Cody types entirely? Back at the 2008 NFL Combine, Frank Okam ran a 5.32 forty, leading Mike Mayock to remark:
"Frank Okam is fat and out of shape," he says, "doesn't he realize how important this is?"
At the time, Okam was nursing an injured calf, but throughout his time in Houston, he's repeatedly heard questions about his desire and/or conditioning. As the only thing approaching a nose tackle the team has had for the last two seasons, you'd think Okam would be in a prime position to get snaps, yet he spent much of the 2009 season watching the games in street clothes on the sidelines, despite not being on injured reserve. Could it be that the perceived sins of Okam will prevent this regime from ever getting a big body for the middle of the defensive line?
Or is the failure to bring in a big body a calculated, scheme-based decision? Or do Gary Kubiak, Rick Smith, Frank Bush, and/or Bill Kollar have crippling cases of cacomorphobia? State your case in the Comments below.
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That statement makes no sense at all
If you’re focusing the defense on your LBs (which are a great group) then wouldn’t you do what you could to help them succeed….like, say, oh…..shielding your newly extended MLB with a big, fat wall of NT?
"Lord, beer me strength."
And of course...
if teams don’t have to double-team a NT then
A) one of those OL are getting up to block a LB which opens more running lanes
B) those OL can double-team Mario (on passing downs) which means they don’t have to keep in a blocking back which throws another weapon out there to cover
C) Amobi is miscast as a run-stuffer who must hold the point of attack as compared to his natural role of a gap-shooter
"Lord, beer me strength."
It seems so obvious
But so does not playing receivers with a ten yard cushion…Frank Bush and obvious do not gel.
Most big NTs actually step off the field on passing downs
Assmass alone does not a NT make.
Big Marcus Stroud took 822 snaps
Aubrayo Franklin took 626
Casey Hampton took 592
Haynesworth took 573
Pat Williams took 494
Vince Wilfork (and whoever he ate) took 448
Cody and Zgonina took 399 and 307 respectively. DelJuan and Okam took a combined 150.
A NT may not be out there all the time….but those big fatties were out there more than the guys on our roster.
"Lord, beer me strength."
And to add to that...(a hypothetical situation)
Okoye cuts his 825ish snaps to about 675.
We sign John Henderson and give him roughly 500 snaps.
Mitchell takes about 350 snaps.
Smith/Cody/DelJuan/Okam/Whomever combine for 150-200 snaps.
There ya go. That looks a lot better than last season.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Am all for John Henderson
Assmass alone does not a NT make.
Dream come true....
John Henderson would be a god send…. I keep searching for any sign that the Texans are interested. Anyone heard anything???
Why can't we just meet in the middle
And get someone like Fred Robbins who weighs right around 320? WHY?
Rudimentary creatures of flesh and blood, you touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
Theory:
Frank Bush and Bill Kollar’s kids each bought them tickets to Ralphie May concerts.
The rest is history.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Is it possible that we just haven't had the right opportunity yet?
Taking Williams in the 1st would’ve left a GAPING hole there at corner when you only have maybe two guys who’ve proven they can play CB on the whole roster. They believed RB was the 2nd biggest need so they took Tate. I don’t know who was still on the board when we took Mitchell but I can guarantee there wasn’t some 340+ lb. penetrating beast. They got the guy they wanted.
Other reasons they don’t want to draft galacticus:
1. Face it, they’ve had bad luck with DTs and this undoubtedly works against them taking a fat boy. (Amobi hasn’t played near his 10th overall potential, Okam is a fat slob, Kubes hated Travis Johnson and traded him for a bag of chips and N.D. Kalu wasn’t exactly a free-agent home run)
2. Kollars philosophy (and now Kubes’) is they want active, high motor guys who can play fast for multiple downs.
3. Casey Hamptons, John Hendersons, Ndamakong Suhs, Shaun Rogers don’t grow on trees. That’s why they’re great players. Why would they reach to get someone based on their size alone when he could easily end up like Fat Frank Okam?
They haven’t had the opportunity (be it having other needs or not seeing value) to grab a Kris Jenkins/Shaun Rogers in the draft. I guarantee you if they see a Dan Williams there next year and don’t have another trumping need like they did this year, they’ll take him.
Thats all.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 29, 2010 6:03 PM CDT reply actions
Amobi and Travis Johnson aren't NT's.
And if they thought NT was a need they missed multiple chances to address it with Cam Thomas in the draft. Even under your scenario, that’s 4 times they passed on a guy who was given roughly a 2nd round grade for non-needs.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 29, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Well they still have the chance to go get John Henderson
Suh isn’t a NT. He’s a undertackle.
Kalu was a DE, not a DT.
Kollar’s philosophy (small DTs) doesn’t mesh with Bush’s philosophy (4-3 under, which is what he has said the defense is….an aggressive, 4-3 under), and that’s a pretty big problem.
"Lord, beer me strength."
.bq Kollar’s philosophy (small DTs) doesn’t mesh with Bush’s philosophy (4-3 under, which is what he has said the defense is….an aggressive, 4-3 under)
I keep hearing that, but we don’t know if that is actually the case. Bush could want his version of this defense to include smaller quicker NT’s. I know Bush said an aggressive 4-3 under, but maybe his version of that is different from the textbook. Kubiak could be the one pushing the quicker DTs philosophy. We have no idea.
Even Carrol talked about how you could run a 4-3 under alignment with two gap principles, and that would be vastly different from what we hope to see. Many teams claim to run a west coast offense, but even all the guys from the Walsh tree did it a little different once they got out on their own. It’s pretty obvious that, right or wrong, The Texans value athleticism over girt for all of our DTs, and don’t have the same principles in mind as we do.
We also didn’t line up in the under alignment drastically more than we did other alignments either. So maybe Bush started off with the textbook 4-3 under in mind, but it seems to have morphed into something else now.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
You could run a 4-3 under defense with 2 gap responsibilities for sure, but then it wouldn’t be an attacking front line, but rather a “read and react” front 7.
From their statements about wanting to get more penetration out of the interior of the line, i’m under the impression they’re trying to attack the gaps even harder scheme-wise… and under that assumption, Mitchell is a good fit at DT and Okoye stands to benefit from it as well as he’d be turned loose more than he was in the past few years.
I’ve said many times that we seem to run a hodgepodge of different diffensive schemes and it’s kind of confusing to watch at times… But Bush has been around the game for a very long time and was and is still considered a talented young definsive mind in the league with potential so perhaps he knows what he’s doing and for some reason it just hasn’t clicked yet, we are only in his 2nd season as a DC so it’s understandable for there to be some growing pains both with the players adapting to his system and Bush adapting his defensive theories to the reality of the NFL.
The defense did take steps in the right direction last year and got better and better as the season wore on, so i’m willing to give him time to show what his defense is capable of… If he can turn out a halfway decent defense to pair with the offense we have, we’ll be pretty successfull as a team.
Rick Smith didn't draft Travis Johnson
So other than Okoye and Frank Okam, there has not been as much disappointment as you are implying.
However, I think the point that gets passed over is that NT is a position on the line. Every team plays a NT. You saying that they went CB in the first because of the gaping hole, well, I could make the argument that they have a gaping hole at NT because the Texans don’t have a NT. We have Zgonina and Shaun Cody miscast as NTs even though they really don’t have the strength for the position. Let’s not confuse a position as a body type. The Eagles have a NT in Brodrick Bunkley even though he’s 6’2", 306 lbs, but he’s incredibly strong to stop the run, holds the point of attack, and requires a double team. I think most people say big space eaters because most big guys are strong, good against the run, and require double teams. I would say it’s harder to find a Bunkley than a Hampton/Henderson/Rogers because Bunkley is just a rare combination.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 30, 2010 1:44 AM CDT up reply actions
CB was the much bigger need
simply because we lost a 6 year starter at probably the most vital defensive position in the pass-happy NFL. Zgonina and Cody WERE the so-called “NTs” last year..no matter how you look at it, if they lined up at the position then thats how we used them. They actually played the run pretty well but theres no arguing that we needed another DT and they got the athletic type guy they want.
This argument of what “type” of “NT” is pointless, because Kollar and Kubes obviously have a different idea of what an NT is as opposed to what alot of us might want.
And about types like Hampton/Henderson/Rogers and Bunkley also..if there had been a prospect that they scouted to be on the level of those guys and they didn’t have other pressing needs at the time..I still think they take that guy over another Mitchell type.
by leacheatsbabies on Apr 30, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Another NT post...
Keeping it fresh around here.
I am with the thinking of maybe Frank Okam soured the teams opinions on “beefy” NT’s…
When is Okam's contract year?
I am suspecting he plays Haynesworth-like when he is playing for a new contract….
I suppose if all of the stars, moons and planets align it could be possible, but what are the chances of that?
by Rip Jersey on May 3, 2010 12:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think adding henderson
Is the way to go. If we were to make the playoffs he would make a big difference.
But they won’t even look at him. No chance.
by AllenOU on Apr 29, 2010 9:21 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Kollar
They invested first round picks in DL for years. Pass rush is more important than nose tackle (although it can be argued (quite easily) that a true nose tackle would help the pass rush). Now they have a dline coach who is notorious for liking undersized, more mobile lineman. Sound familiar? (cough, offensive line, cough). I think our dreams of a space eating nose tackle are going to go unfulfilled.
Kinda like
my sex life…. it is kinda there but never enough to satisfy… lol jk…my gf loves it when i call her mistress and she is wearing leather…. ok tmi
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
by Taco Joe on Apr 29, 2010 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
Just for admitting this.
my gf loves it when i call her mistress and she is wearing leather
I also keep meaning to mention that I like your sign off….that reminds me, maybe we could get that killer rabbit to be an NT instead of a big fatty. He’d decimate the opponents O-line in nothing flat….problem solved….qb goes down.
Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid
"Where? Behind the Rabbit?"
“No it is the Rabbit!”
…And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, “O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade that with it Thou mayest blow Thine enemies to tiny bits, in Thy mercy.” And the Lord did grin and the people did feast upon the lambs and sloths and carp and anchovies and orangutans and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats and large chu… “skip a bit, brother”… And the Lord spake, saying, “First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin, then shalt thou count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.” Amen.
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
ok that quote was a little longer than i like
plus couldn’t be used as my signature lol
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
Here at work
allot of people have linked the arrow sound and “Message for you suhr” to their e-mail inbox so instead of pinging it plays that.
Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid
Probably a combination of what you say
and the fact that they managed to have greatly improved rush defense after game 3. Doesn’t really matter if it was an upgrade in talent, or changes in scheme the bottom-line was that it improved our run D from being dead last to atleast average, maybe even above average. On the other hand, our pass rush was horrible, and I believe they are trying to address that with Mitchell. It might have started as a successful experiment last year, but at the moment it is the scheme they are sticking with. The Frank Okam experience can just be another deterrence to try out someone big, just for the sake of having a big body in the middle.
Assmass alone does not a NT make.
Pancakes (not linking)
I’m surprised so many thought the Texans were looking for a 330-pound nose tackle. A nose tackle is a run-down player. The Texans already have two of those starting — Okoye and Shaun Cody. Over the last 13 games, the Texans allowed an average of 299 total yards, including 86 rushing.
The Texans didn’t need a defensive tackle to stop the run. They needed a tackle to pressure the passer.
Stepping aside for a second the obvious rebuttal that Cody, according to FO, had a fluke-tastic season stuffing the run despite what I observationally would call mediocre performance….The Texans needed tackles who could do both. Because last year, flashes of Okoye aside, they got nothing from them.
A nose tackle is primarily an addition to stopping the run. Yes, John. Very good use of Wikipedia. But a nose tackle also is supposed to be powerful enough to draw double teams. Might surprise you to find this out, but it’s true: nobody is ever going to double team Shaun Cody unless it’s out of geographic convenience with the intent to act like they are helping or he’s hit rock bottom and is enjoying a successful sports fetish male-on-male pornogragphy career.
These Texans, these Texans that had a turn-around in run defense, were helped much more (in my eyes) by the fact that they started playing a safety who could stand near the line of scrimmage without looking like a deer in the headlights.
But no, go ahead, Shaun Cody isn’t a prime candidate for regression at all. Clearly he should continue to have a 100% stuff rate or whatever it was. Bernard Pollard will easily continue to be a badass despite a poor track record before this year and anecdotal evidence that our scrapheap safeties can fade quickly. No reason to even think about making a move that can bolster both our run defense and our pass defense instead of just our pass defense when we play Maurice Jones-Drew and Chris Johnson 4 times a year. You can be surprised when this doesn’t go according to plan too, as you are quite good at being surprised.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
Is it sad then
that the FO seems to be optimistic about the same thing? I mean if they don’t sign John Henderson or pull off some other kind of deal, they are basically saying that they think last year was not a fluke and could possibly build on that.
by theaxeeffect4311 on Apr 30, 2010 5:38 AM CDT up reply actions
To clarify
I’m not saying that it CAN’T happen.
I’m just saying you’re building a lot of hope on a wobbly structure, and if one part of the balance slips off, I would not at all be surprised to see us wind up closer to our season rating last year than our After 4 weeks rating.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 30, 2010 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Not exactly letting our defensive scheme off the hook, here
But I think we at BRB might seriously be overlooking Koob’s supreme confidence in his offensive scheme… and the rushing attack, in particular.
Now, if said running game had been even somewhat viable last year (and it certainly wasn’t), then we would have been able to control the time of possesion so much more consistently. This is a HUGE concept for us, please make no mistake. We would have sustained our leads longer; and much more easily. Our defense would have had entirely less on-field work to do. Opposing defenses would have had entirely more work to do against us (and, yes, let’s also factor in our talented passing game; with this combo on offense we should have the opposition guessing, all day long). Additionally, opposing offenses likely would have opted to pass against us even more, either in trying to keep up with us… or even better, in trying to catch up to us.
In turn, our defense also would have had more energy, and quite simply, it would have been all the more effective as a result. Same with our O-Line, which would have easily benefited by attacking defenses more with run blocks, as opposed to 50 retreating pass blocks nearly every single week.
Running the ball is at the basic core of Kubiak’s overall philosophy, and the Texans will either live or die, by that fact.
We have added some nicely effective personnel on defense, within the last calendar year. So fret not.
In summary, it seems that Kubiak believes that if we can get our running game back to its 2008 level, and perhaps better. Which would ideally let our defense put its onus more towards pass rushing… against an already pass-happy league, in general.
i'm really looking forward
to 3rd downs with Mario and C. Barwin on the edge and A. Smith and Mitchell inside.. I think it’s gonna be lethal!
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
Hey guys, sorry for interrupting – I need your help – I’m writing a piece on the ages of offensive linemen in the NFL.
What is the most likely starting 5 along your OL for the upcoming season? For the best accuracy, I’d prefer to hear from you guys rather than trust my own opinions or an ESPN depth chart.
Thanks!
Pretty sure it will be
Duane Brown
Wade Smith
Chris Myers
Antoine Caldwell
Eric Winston
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Apr 30, 2010 7:30 AM CDT up reply actions
Every time
I see Chris Myers in the middle of our list for Oline it makes my penis shrivel up and go inside me….
"Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries! Now Go away or I shall taunt you a second time!"
Go Texans!
I was in the camp
this past draft of doing whatever it took to finsih the D. I know it’s unpopular but I would have traded up at times to get the guys I would have thought would help us. I would have had no problem drafting 4 players in this draft instead of 9 and giving up a possible pick or two in next years draft – I just saw so much potential from this draft class. I LOVE what Baltimore did with thier picks. Even after the darft you have UDFA that you could go out and get a RB like Blount or other offesnive players to help provide depth. I really like Tate and I think he will end up being great on this team but I would have passed on him to get someone else on the defensive side of the ball. I think we could have ended up with one of the big name NT’s, two good/decent CB’s and a FS. I still like Nolan and want to see what he can do so maybe that 4th pick could have been for another position (WLB) but regardless I think they really missed the ball on this one. I really could see this defense becoming like the Ravens in years past and I think we are almost there. But the difference between being there and almost being there can be a 1-5 ranked defense vs a 15-18 ranked defense – and that’s a big difference.
I think the failure is a scheme based decision because I don’t think Kollar and Bush can agree on the scheme. I have a feeling this is a case of too many people with their fingers in the pie.
Confucius say "man who enter door sideways going to Bangkok".
I had the same trade-up sentiment, as you did
maybe they would have even considered it, if not for all the future CBA uncertainty
The Okam thing is a bit simplistic...
Rick Smith isn’t going to shy away from a great player simply because a former fifth-round gamble didn’t work out. As for the scheme? It’s probably a pretty big reason for not taking him. But perhaps even more so, the reason was that he just wasn’t the best player on the board. 20-something other teams passed on him, including 3-4 defenses with dire needs at NT.
All this talk about NTs commanding double-teams hinges upon one thing that people seem to forget: the NT still has to be a great player in order for that to occur. Being fat doesn’t cut it, especially in a 4-3 defense. If Shaun Cody + random scrub (DelJuan?) can hold down the fort against the run on 1st and 2nd downs like they did last year, the Texans will be just fine at DT. There’s too much damn talent in that front seven. They needed somebody in the secondary who could hold their own without extra safety help, and if they scouted well, they got him.
by Nashmeister on Apr 30, 2010 5:34 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
Are you talking of Cam Thomas dropping to 5th?
Assmass alone does not a NT make.

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