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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

A quick word on Ben Tate, or...

...why I often despise traditional media.

So, it looks like much of the media, including ESPN, is jumping on a report that Ben Tate has a broken ankle.  And what's the source of this rumor?  Why, it's based on first-hand analysis from well-known Houston-area orthopedic surgeon Dr. Pancakes McClain entirely on this statement:

It looks like he suffered a broken ankle and is out for the season.

Wait, what?  A reporter thinks Tate has a broken ankle, and it is so?

The reason we at BRB have not posted this trash is that it's trash; we simply aren't going make a breathless post that Tate is out for the season until we have, you know, an actual doctor's opinion.  We'll wait until the team makes a statement later this afternoon (Gary Kubiak has a press conference scheduled for 3:30) and wait for the facts.

Can you imagine if a blogger had done this?  The traditional media would be calling for an immediate Blogger's Ethics Panel.

And, no, I am not going to post a link.

Comment 93 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Sucks, but I am far from panicing.

Here is the reality, and promise, of this year.

Last years Texans with a better defense at the start of the year and a better kicking game are in the playoffs.

I think we have both of those things this year. The addition of talented rookies is just gravy, but not the reason we make the playoffs.

"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."

What happens when an unstoppable force meets three defensive players? THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWqMqrZwTU

by TexansForever on Aug 15, 2010 12:14 PM CDT reply actions  

I said the same thing last night

People ran with Pancakes’ “I think…” post.

SR610 had to retract its statement about a high ankle sprain….why? Cause they “heard” it was worse…..probably from Solomon’s tweet who cited some anonymous source.

I saw someone tweet about a fracture, but had no sources.

It was just a lame attempt to break the news…and no one had any real news to break.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 15, 2010 12:31 PM CDT reply actions  

I commented at PFT

the exact same thing this AM! I guess me asking Gregg Rosenthal if he wrote the headline from Florio’s preschool for ’wannabe’s’ journalistic hacks and referring to Dr. Pancakes McLame/“that fat fuck” blog from 10:00 last night as proof/link source was lazy, didn’t get my comment printed.

by Xetuoh on Aug 15, 2010 1:48 PM CDT reply actions  

It is easy to sit behind a screen and act like a bad ass and write crap like this.

Bet you wouldn’t do it in person……..

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 17, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awww shucks, you got me there!

Next time I’ll try to do 3 reps with the keyboard, but this time without a spotter! There, that’ll show’em!

by Xetuoh on Aug 18, 2010 5:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

?????

OK….Or take your insults which are very extreme and say them to his face or mine. I am sure it can be arranged…

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 18, 2010 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lighten up Chesty!

Didn’t mean for you to be so upset over my calling your BFF Dr. Pancakes “that fat fuck” McLame, to draw such a response!? If you’ll afford my travel and accommodations to Houston, I’ll personally apologize to you and Pancakes…deal?

by Xetuoh on Aug 18, 2010 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lol

No worries…

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 18, 2010 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Tweets = FACT

How did you not know this?

Or better yet, what if ESPN had reported that Favre tweeted his teammates about a broken ankle for Tate?

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Aug 15, 2010 2:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Hey now

I don’t want to fight about it.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 15, 2010 3:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

<3

Have you ever tried just turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

by nolander on Aug 15, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

-10

for anyone who reported or RT’d Pancakes’ thoughts.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 15, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Holy shit John McClain is a dumbass
Ben Tate is expected to undergo surgery Tuesday to repair broken ankle suffered against Arizona.

He just tweeted that a few moments ago. Did he not see that Tate himself said he doesn’t have a broken ankle?

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 15, 2010 4:33 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree that sports reporters are being irresponsible in this case

But I don’t agree that blogs should hold themselves to higher standards. Media is the media and blogs are blogs. It’s wrong for media reporters to hold themselves to blog standards, but it’s just as wrong for blogs to try to hold themselves to regular media standards…

It’s all media I suppose but it’s different types of media, by each side trying to immitate the other, the lines between the two are becomming blurred and lessening both.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 16, 2010 1:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Lessening both?

Really?

And I don’t see anybody here posting blatantly stupid tweets and trying to pass off medical diagnosis from afar as the truth, do you? I don’t see anybody here trying to imitate the Comicle in any way.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 16, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

Blogs

Is where you go for interesting opinionated articles on subjects of interest, where the rumormill is not only allowed but flourishes. The paper, tv “news”, ect. would be where you’d go when in need of hard facts. It’s pretty clear that recently the “news” media has been leaning towards the opinion and rumor route and blogs in general have been more concerned about “credentials” and and “fact” than they were early on.

All i’m saying is I liked it better when they were two seperate sources of media, go to one for factual data and the other to satisfy your fancy. There’s a little bit of both in each now, and to me at least it seems to have watered them both down.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 16, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're right in that I haven't seen that much here in this instance

And that’s part of the problem. It’s not just that your supposed reputable sources of media are playing the part of gossiping hens, this is the exact type of setting that those “stories” should be seen. There should be posters claiming the injury was anything from a broken ankle to a bad case of gout… because that’s what bloggers do…

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t approve of the sloppy way this story has been handled so far in the media and I think it’s retarded for a news reporter to basically guess at the “facts” in his story… But that’s precisely why I visit blog sites in addition to subscribing to a newspaper and watching news on TV…, because I want to hear the fantastical opinions of other fans as well as hear the cold hard facts and it brings a smile to my face the more absurd and far out there those opinions go. When both the fantastical and fact come from the same source, it makes it harder to buy into the validity of some of the claims… How do you know what story is factual and what is just another guess? When there are clear lines defining the two sources of information it’s easier to tell fact from opinion.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 16, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of that has happened

because when these blogs came out we realized how lacking traditional media has been and how horrible their analysis and reporting really is a lot of the times.

Have you ever tried just turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

by nolander on Aug 16, 2010 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Excluding me, there isn’t a blogger in the section below I’d trade for any “columnist” at the Comicle.

For me? I think a 6-pack of Busch Light would be about fair.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 16, 2010 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting note

Back in college, we typically did a yearly worst beer contest, and PBR “won” every year. I can’t believe people drink that beer willingly.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 17, 2010 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Natty Light

Disagrees with both of you.
[I just threw up in my mouth a little]

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 17, 2010 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Funny thing is

If it’s beer, I’ll drink it. Sure, we all have our preferences (Mine is anything that looks like Oil). But we’re in a recession. I can’t afford to be a beer snob anymore.

by Mike Kerns on Aug 17, 2010 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

miller high life

I can barely even look/smell that beer anymore without gagging.

by killtacular on Aug 18, 2010 2:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm that way....

with any beer.

Now a nice Jack and Dr. Pepper, or a shot of Crown, you have my interest.

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on Aug 18, 2010 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

BANNED!!!

For beer blaspheming. Tim/Scott, please put down the CoorsLight/Zima and make it happen.

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 19, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

I feel the same way about Coors

And Coors Light.

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 17, 2010 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

How are you NOT banned yet by Tim?

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Aug 17, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

this

has to be a a SUPERBAN

by killtacular on Aug 19, 2010 4:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I guess that's part of the rub for me

I want my bloggers to be bloggers and journalists to be journalists. If you want to prove you’re a better journalist than wosname, then go out get a job as journalist at some podunk paper and prove you’re better, eventually you’d replace him or his counterpart in another paper if you succeeded.

I don’t mind the occassional fact to slide into the blog, but a blog shouldn’t be purely about facts or journalistic credibility. To out-journalize a journalist while writing on a blog… well maybe you prove something to yourself and a few readers but mostly what you’re accomplishing is turning a blog into another news medium, which frankly we have enough of. I want the crazy off the wall assumptions and gossiping. I like that a person can claim that the Texans need a space eating NT even though it doesn’t really fit the scheme we use…

My beef is lately alot of journalists are writing pieces that look quite a bit like blogs and some bloggers are writing pieces that look too much like a newspaper article… Being different doesn’t always mean being better or worse.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 16, 2010 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Seriously

This makes no sense whatsoever, especially in regards to publishing obviously false information. Or do you expect us to talk about every rumor, even if it’s totally without merit, because we’re bloggers?

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 16, 2010 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

As a blogger every thing you post

Is potentially false. Bloggers have limited means to “check up” on their stories before they’re posted and instead have to rely on the credibility of other sources for their own credibility…. That is why they cannot and should not be held to the same standards as other forms of media.

I don’t expect anything out of a blog other than the atmosphere which allows such conversations to exist, I don’t demand that they do. However, making comments such as…..

 “The reason we at BRB have not posted this trash is that it’s trash; we simply aren’t going make a breathless post that Tate is out for the season until we have, you know, an actual doctor’s opinion. We’ll wait until the team makes a statement later this afternoon (Gary Kubiak has a press conference scheduled for 3:30) and wait for the facts.”

…. puts out the message to me that the content is censored to some degree by journalistic integrity, when quite honestly bloggers are not journalists and can’t fairly be expected to be held up by their standards. Saying “McClain was out of line, ect, ect” is just fine, but when you go holier and though is where you lose me. It’s impossible for a blog to have real journalistic integrity simply because the resources for the most part aren’t there, by making claims to the contrary you’re essentially writing checks you have no way of cashing.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 16, 2010 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again, this makes no sense

Of course we can check sources, especially in this case. They’re called the Texans doctors. And you’re damn right I’m going to take a holier than thou attitude specifically speculating about injuries.

We’ve also had Kerns do interviews (Tate) and Rivers go to the Combine. Rivers and Kerns and DiehardChris and BigRon went to open camps.

I’m not sure why we’d ever NOT take advantage of a situation where we can get in the middle of things. There’s no reason for bloggers to stay locked up in our mother’s basements.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 16, 2010 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I said limited resources, not non-existant

You have Texans doctors on speed dial? Or do you just mean whenever a case like this happens we should wait untill after the story has become old news to speak of it?

There’s nothing wrong with speculation, even from the Chronicle’s reporters. The problem is he states that the injury is a broken ankle rather than include something along the lines of “maybe” or “looked like”, ect. Speculation is just a carryover from natural human curiosity.

My point is if you want to run a blog that’s based on truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth… you’re going to find your stories to be rather limited and typically about 2-3 days old by the time you can post them. If you’re really suggesting that the average blogger will have the resources to research and investigate a story as does a major media outlet, you’ll have a very difficult time getting me to buy it. You might can manage a couple legitimate “news” stories on a blog, but if you want an active viewership it’s a must to have an assortment of speculative posts as well, otherwise you’re just going to be repeating news a day or two behind everyone else the majority of the time.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't get what your point is with that

There were plenty of timely posts with the correct information.

Fans knew he was hurt and would miss time. There was discussion and talk in the post-game thread. After Kubiak’s Sunday press conference there was another post up about the information. Immediately after Kubiak spoke at practice, there was another post up.

Just because there were no wild posts so people could run around like Chicken Little with incorrect information doesn’t mean that there weren’t timely posts so people could talk about the injury and stay informed.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 17, 2010 2:58 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Goo'd

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 17, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

You know

I think Jenn Sterger is hot, but fake boobs are starting to get on my nerves. I prefer non-enhanced boobs. But if you’re going to get some implants, for the love of god, make it a little less glaring, ya?

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 17, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are they really non-enhanced?

Because, holy shit they’re big.

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 17, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Non-enhanced

She’s lauded for being all-natural and bringing the Marilyn Monroe/curvy aspect back to Hollywood.

And who doesn’t love a curvy redhead?

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 17, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Absolutely love this

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 17, 2010 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would have to see her laying down....

if half her breast doesn’t slide into her armpit their fake. Not that I wouldn’t continue if I had her laying down naked.

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on Aug 17, 2010 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wow

I’m so in love lust.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 17, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goo'd

TMI?

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 19, 2010 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's a difference between censorship

and not wanting to put out false information on a serious matter (an injury).

Your definitions of journalism and blogs are growing a bit outdated. They are bleeding into each other because that is what technology has created. Traditional media is slowly being replaced, but that doesn’t mean non-traditional outlets are free from providing their readers with correct information in their attempts to entertain, tell jokes, or spin opinions as they try to get conversation going.

There are people who get their main forms of news from the Jon Stewarts and blogs of the world. Like it or not, that’s how people get information nowadays. Getting your facts straight is just the decent thing to do.

Also, on a personal level, I won’t put out a misinformed or stupid opinion that doesn’t have it’s facts straight. People will disagree, but it won’t be because I screwed stats up, didn’t provide the correct context, or didn’t have something to support why I have the opinion I do.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 16, 2010 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Beledat

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 16, 2010 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't feel as if it is this case

With Twitter, blogs, Internet, and 24/7 News Channels, the reporters want to be the one to break news first. There’s a lot of pressure to get it out there.

In this instance, McClain’s initial tweet said “I think” it was a broken ankle. People ran with it and it spread. Tate corrected everyone that it wasn’t broken. People spread it then McClain still claimed it was broken. At first, the fault were those who failed to read the initial tweet, but the blame now is McClain ignoring Tate’s own words.

I don’t think it lessens any type of media to hold the standard of “reporting the facts.” That’s what should be expected: facts.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 16, 2010 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think there is a happy medium

between blogging and “real” journalists. With the new direction sports reporting is going, Twitter has changed the game. Now all these guys are so quick to try and break a story first, they’re just making up shit. Perfect example is Pancakes. First he guaranteed the Texans would take a RB in the 1st round this year. Then he flip flopped back and forth on the re-singing of Leigh Bodden with the Pats. Now this shit with the broken ankle.

But to say that we shouldn’t be a reliable outlet for team news and stick only to opinions is a joke. Yes, we do that (probably too much sometimes). But we can have the jokes and “wild innuendo” and still report accurate news. I am sure that majority of the readers here appreciate that since they can’t go to the local media and get solid coverage.

Therefore, while I understand your opinion Bryan, I have to respectfully disagree.

by Mike Kerns on Aug 17, 2010 8:33 AM CDT reply actions  

This crap with the broken ankle....

You mean where he was actually right? Unless of course Kubiak was misquoted as saying Tate has a fractured ankle and will go on IR… Or maybe Kubiak is guitly of speculative slander too.

Maybe “Pancakes” had spoken to team trainers/coaches and was told “that definitely looks like a broken ankle”. He still fugged up by writing it as fact and for not naming even an anonymous source, but that could just as easilly be an example of bad writing as it is an issue of journalistic integrity. Obviously at the time of his writing he knew there were no xrays or doctors to verify the claim, so I don’t know you can say for certainty that he wasn’t aware that it was unverified information and is guilty mostly of poor wording. So really if you want to be a hardazz, you could say that by “speculating” that he had no credible information or source and was just winging it that BFD was actually guilty of the same thing he was accusing “pancakes” of…. And actually when I look back, in the original quote he even stated “it *looks” like a broken ankle", which is an admission of a speculative claim… so probably what he was most guilty of is poor writing and not disclosing the source of his conclusion that it was a broken ankle, which he didn’t have to do but would have made sense in this case.

What is a blog besides opinion? You can have accurate information in your posts, I never said accuracy wasn’t allowed on blogs, but your viewership stems for the sharing of “opinions” of that information. If not your own opinions, then the opinions of t he subscribers responding to the post. Opinion is the lifeblood of a blog, and many times opinion can’t be substantiated so making comments that speculation is not wanted on this blog to me threatens the vitality of the blog itself. I’m not saying you have to post only wild speculative pieces, just that they have a place in the blog universe and by discounting that speculation on one post invalidates all the others that have helped bring interest to the blog in the first place.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Your argument gets more ridiculous with every comment

Pancakes claimed no source. He said it looked like a broken ankle to him. The traditional media ran with a diagnosis from the press box. That’s the definition of trash journalism. Period.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 17, 2010 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

It's kind of hard not to

When the conversation mostly consists of me stating my opinion and someone else stating it was ridiculous and offering nothing that hasn’t already been said.

Conversation typically stalls when one side becomes defensive and stops conversing so much as lashing out.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions  

My thinking is

Once someone stops adding anything new to the conversation other than insults, the only recourse is to step away from the conversation entirely or try to remain calm, repeat major points, and try to steer the conversation back to a more civil tone…

And i’ve never been good at walking away, it’s a personally failing of mine.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

Couple points on that…

For one, I said “He still fugged up by writing it as fact and for not naming even an anonymous source” and later on I stated “so probably what he was most guilty of is poor writing and not disclosing the source of his conclusion that it was a broken ankle”. I never said he claimed a source or even had one for certain, just intimated at the possibility that he didn’t come to that conclusion on his own, in fact I stated the opposite. If you concentrated on comprehending what you’re reading as much as how to respond to it, you’d probably catch these little things. He said it looked like a broken ankle, which by the way it turned out to be.. regardless of the source of his speculative musings, where is the huge foul? Your stating that since he didn’t claim any source he must’ve just come up with it all on his own without discussing it with anyone and everyone else simply believe it as gospel. Since we’re so big on journalistic integrity here, i’m assuming you have evidence to support the claim and it’s not just your opinion tinted by your own animosity with the Chronicle and “Pancakes” that has built over the years?

The other thing I wanted to mention was the blatant hostility in your response. Everyone has their own opinion, and when you start to share those opinions there’s going to be disagreements and arguments. When you use insults or dismissive language in those responses all you’re really saying is “I have nothing really to say to that so i’m just going to belittle your opinion instead.” That’s typically when productive argument ends and petty bickering begins.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

OK
It looks like he suffered a broken ankle and is out for the season.

Do you see a source? Or am I supposed to prove a negative by somehow, miraculously proving that he had no source because he didn’t list one?

You’ve moved the goalposts all over the place in regards to your argument. First, blogs are supposed to speculate wildly and that we shouldn’t have any journalistic integrity. Then, you defend Pancakes after he clearly displayed no integrity. Then, you admit he screwed up?

The reason blogs started was because of irresponsible, poor journalism such as that displayed by Pancakes and daily by LDJA12. If you don’t think I’m going to hold myself to a high standard just because I’m a blogger, then you are completely missing the point.

I’m 100% done with this discussion.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 17, 2010 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not defending anyone

Or saying you personally shouldn’t hold yourself to whatever standard you set. All i’ve said is that there is a place for speculative rants in the world of Blog, and to make a broad statement of “we don’t do that here” is easier to say than it is to keep in practice. Using the plural “we”, you’re no longer referring to just yourself, you’re including every other blogger who occasionally posts here, and i’ve seen quite a few posts wanting on cold hard fact here. That’s not an insult, it’s just unavoidable, and part of what makes reading blogs interesting… If everyone who posted here needed to validate every claim they made, BRB would be much more boring indeed.

I didn’t say bloggers should only speculate wildly or that there should be no journalistic integrity for the individual, but in the broad view, you can’t force integrity on an entire blog without hindering the colorfull and yes sometimes wildly speculative ideas and opinions among its bloggers and subscribers. What I believe I said was that the traditional media should stick to cold hard facts and the blog world (as a whole) shouldn’t concern itself so much with journalist integrity and fact checking. If an individual blogger does so, well that just goes to define his character and the nature of his posts.

I don’t think Blogs were created to combat bad journalism, I believe blogs were originally started for individuals to express their own opinions and beliefs on subjects. Yes, probably partly because they felt detatched from the traditional media, but that’s because the traditional media was all fact and little opinionated discussion before blogs really took off. Now nearly every news program you see has an opinonated segment where “experts” will debate issues.

All I was trying to say is i’d rather the traditional media go back to fact checking and bloggers to keep up with the opinionated rants with what facts are available usually presented by that traditional media… instead of the blurred mess we have now.

As for not being able to prove “Pancakes” didn’t have a source, that was exactly my point. You have no way of knowing for certain, you just ASSUME that because he didn’t claim one he must not’ve had one. You can’t preach journalistic integrity on one hand and make assumptions with the other.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

To me

It’s plausible that if he had developed a relationship with a Texans trainer or coach and they told him, “Look, we’re pretty sure it’s a broken ankle but it can’t get out that I told you this or I could lose my job”… that “Pancakes” might ommit the outside source altogether, especially if those “in the know” were limited to just a handfull of people as it would be alot easier for the powers that be to determine who the anonymous source was he credited.

I’m not saying that’s what happened, just that it’s possible and there’s no way of proving or disproving that possibility as of yet.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

You won't get what you want

There is no separation between blogs and traditional media. Those days are dead. The Internet changed the game because it gives 24/7 coverage. That’s why newspaper circulation continues to dwindle. That’s why blogs have as many visits, if not more, than newspaper websites. That’s why more and more bloggers (not just in the sports realm) are being granted access. That’s why traditional media is turning to online blogs and Twitter because their columns weren’t enough. That’s why bloggers do have a responsibility to their readers to use correct stats, put events/quotes into context, and generally not make crap up. Times have changed, and people get their information from sources like these.

Your point on Pancakes is incorrect. He ran with the broken ankle after Ben Tate denied it. He shows up at practice and asks the same question only to be told no by Kubiak. He ignored two sources in the know. Even if broken is a common term for fracture, it also carries the meaning of having a “complete fracture” which is what is being denied by the actual man with the injury and his coach. That’s just crap journalism.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 17, 2010 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree

That we’ve passed the point of no return with blogs and journalism, but is it wrong to pine for the good old days where when you picked up a paper you knew every fact claim was fact checked to the point that it would hold up in court if the paper were sued? Now people don’t care about the truth as much as they used to, and that saddens me.

I’m sure he did run with the story after Tate and Kubiak denied it, but to me that points even more to the fact that he had a reliable source telling him the opposite… otherwise why would he be so dogged in his certainty that Tate had a broken ankle?

I think the denial of “complete fracture” is a bit of a cop out. All I know is if I went to the DR and he told me I had a fractured bone in my foot, i’d tell people I had a broken foot when they asked… as would most people that I know.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

And even if you were the type

To seperate the differences between a fracture and clean break, wouldn’t you reply to the question “Do you have a broken ankle?” with “Nah, it’s a fracture”?

To me it just seems like a case of the Texans wanting to keep the information from hitting the press for as long as possible for whatever reason.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well on the injury...

You can be “healed” from a fracture in 4-6, 6-8 weeks depending on what type of fracture it is. Like others have speculated in the Tate threads, it’s probably the “other problems” Kubiak said (tendons, ligaments) that ended his season.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Aug 17, 2010 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yea...

I was just looking on a medical site and they describe a broken bone as “When a bone breaks it is called a fracture (say: frak-chur). There’s more than one way to break or fracture a bone. A break can be anything from a hairline fracture (a thin break in the bone) to the bone that’s snapped in two pieces like a broken tree branch.” ….. So it’s probably not all that outlandish that “Pancakes” would consider a fracture, any fracture, a break.

All breaks heal at pretty much the same rate as welll, whether it’s a hairline fracture to a complete fracture. From what I can find it varies depending on where the break occurs, but a fracture in the ankle is listed at around 6 weeks whereas a break in the lower leg could take up to 24 weeks to heal because they have to be fully healed before they can be counted on to hold your entire body weight….

Also, i’d imagine a doctor would advice an athlete to let the ankle heal a little longer because he’s going to be putting a heck of alot of stress on that mending bone than the average person would.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

The biggest difference in severity of break

That I can see is the method of keeping the bone in place to heal. For a complete fracture you’d need to completely immobilize the bone or joint whereas with hairline fractures a brace usually suffices. It appears though that bone heals at the same rate regardless of severity, the only determining factor in the time table for removal of brace/cast seems to be location and of course the individual’s healing rate.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

It seems that facts are irrelevant and their opinion will not change...

To them John McClain is a: Trash Reporter, Dr. Pancakes McLame/"that fat fuck", Pancakes,
among many other tasteless immature names that they can come up with. No doubt they wouldn’t have the balls to say it to John’s face.

And why?

Cause he speculates on a draft pick?? Who the fuck doesn’t? Or he Tweeted a fact based that was refuted by a different tweet but turned out to be false? Or because he didn’t put a source on his tweet?

As you can see I am pretty fired up about this bull crap. I am ready to put this to rest and talk some football….

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 17, 2010 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I respect the shit out of you for defending Pancakes

I really do. It takes a certain amount of guts and integrity to stand up for someone that isn’t a favorite of a lot of people here, and I for one welcome contrary viewpoints.

Having said that, as we’ve pointed out before, McCain is generally someone we poke fun at, but a lot of people don’t have that much against him. At least not in comparison with Dicky.

I think of him as more of a symptom of what ails the mainstream media. I won’t rehash all the complaints about him as I’m sure you’ve heard them, but I don’t think most people dislike him nearly as much as you think.

But you certainly earn a rec from me for taking a contrary position. I hope you keep it up.

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 17, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's where the rub of it is for me

It’s obvious that alot of the negative complaints about this story has just as much if not more to do with past stories and gaffs and what the posters felt about them, as it did this particular issue.

It reminds me of a Nietzsche quote “Why does man not see things? He is himself standing in the way: He conceals things.”

The words “Journalistic Integrity” were invoked over this hapless story of “pancakes’”, and a very large part of integrity as a journalist is to be able to remove yourself and your past convictions/opinions from the story. When you look through yourself when finding the story, it becomes tainted by your own opinions, thoughts, ideals, and experiences… and that’s the exact opposite of an example of journalistic integrity.

It doesn’t bother me at all to see it’s absence here as i’ve stated, because I see journalists and bloggers as apples and oranges. I don’t blame an apple for not being an orange, but it’s rather dissapointing to me when an apple is an apple but claims to be an orange.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

This is reporting

http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/08/astros-lineup-for-tuesday-keppinger-unavailable.html

Do you see what McTaggart did here? He has a source, he found facts, he reported on it. He didn’t say: “It looks like Keppinger has a broken toe.” He actually talked to somebody.

Bloggers should always look at the facts.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 17, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's just as disturbing

When the orange shows characteristics of an apple.. but what does one have to do with the other? I’m a firm believer in “two wrongs don’t make a right”.

Always look at the facts, except when it goes against what you want to believe… As long as you’re biased in that area it’s impossible to truly have integrity as a reporter of facts.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

So...

You have no argument, and you like to make fruit analogies? That’s truly awesome.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com

by bigfatdrunk on Aug 17, 2010 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

It's not as fun when you have to explain the analogy

The point is what does it really matter even if “pancakes” has shown himself to have no integrity as a reporter, when you claim this blog to hold higher standards and disprove that statement in the very same post?

Does it feel better to sit in the mud if you have someone with you, is that it?

Look, I agreed with pretty much your entire post up to the point where you claim “you won’t see that here”, but you did exactly what you were accusing McClain of in this very post…, ironically by making the assumption that because McClain didn’t claim a source then there was no way he had one and hatched it all up in his lil pee brain, the national media jumped on it and reported it as gospel…. and “Pancakes” just luckilly had the good fortune of being right all along.

You’re blind to any other possibility besides the one where you are right and McClain is gutter-trash who doesn’t deserve a job printing bingo tickets…. Where does journalistic integrity fit into that?

by Bryan72076 on Aug 17, 2010 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is all good..

I just like reading Texans stuff and want the same thing you do. To win the lotto and buy the Texans while leading them to 10 straight superbowl victories….

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 18, 2010 8:00 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd for setting my priorities straight.

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 19, 2010 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Start a new blog called Jouralistic Police Blog specializing in....

1. Speculating about reporters speculating.
2. Jenn Sterger’s Boobs.
3. Twitter and Facebook patrol.

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 17, 2010 12:50 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't know why

but #3 is hilarious. So many possibilities.

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 18, 2010 1:30 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sure, I'll play along...

I’ll fill in #3 for you.

3. Sit in Ivory tower and laugh at the little guy criticizing every move I make

5. Laugh cause I just sent another tweet that I didn’t claim a source
6. More Profit
7. More congrats!!!
8. More laughing at little BFD cause he is so upset about my last tweet
9. Another opinion I printed that might not come true
10. ?
11. Laugh at the revolution that has started to remove me from power

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 18, 2010 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

This one goes to 11

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 18, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

For that extra push over the cliff

"I like watching the old naked couple on public access...until the guy stands up, then it sux." ~ BFD

by LoneSpot on Aug 19, 2010 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

I can appreciate Journalistic intergrity..

I just think that this is WAY overblown.

Agree to disagree, and we can have a cold Lone Star. Then we can make fun of Utah Jazz fans and prank call Dallas radio stations…..

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on Aug 18, 2010 7:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice article.

I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com

by tehGrindCrusher on Aug 18, 2010 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nice find Jordann

And for the link to the full story:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/08/v-fullstory/1766393/being-real-just-isnt-worth-the.html

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on Aug 18, 2010 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good article

I especially like the Roosevelt quote “`It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes up short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

In this case BFD has decided to be the prosecutor of McClain and pledges “journalistic integrity” from himself at the same time he’s making blind assumptions on McClain’s motives and lack of inside sources. People here don’t mind because he’s only echoing their own opinions, and I wouldn’t care either except that it’s a wee hypocritical to blast someone for not having all the facts and at the same time make assumptions without having all the facts himself. That’s not perception or opinion, that IS the cold hard truth of the matter. If you really want to take yourself seriously as a reporter of fact, you have to keep to the facts without adding in your own assumptions, even if doing so would provide your readers with what they want to hear.

I would like nothing better than just “agree to disagree”, however I don’t believe it’s right to ever overlook hypocrisy no matter how small. I know i’m not the poster child for journalistic integrity, or integrity in general for that matter, but I don’t claim it at the same time as I throw someone under the bus for not.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 19, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

It has occured to me

That I could be doing the same thing to BFD as he did to McClain and am perpetuating a great big giant wheel of wrong… but still I think it’s something that needs to be said even if I do come out looking like a horses rear.

by Bryan72076 on Aug 19, 2010 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

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