Mario Williams and Rest of Houston Texans: Do They Fit in Wade Phillips' 3-4?
by Jimmy Neil on Jan 2, 2011 10:01 AM CST
Email
PrintIt seems like there's an hourly update as to who will be coaching the Texans, particularly on the defensive side, in 2011 (here's hoping there IS a 2011). The latest rumors involve Wade Phillips coming in as defensive coordinator, while Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith keep their current jobs. Even if it's not Phillips, a 3-4 scheme is probably a better fit for the Texans' current roster.
The primary concern for most people is the use of Mario Williams. I've even heard people say the Texans should trade him. Not only is that a bad idea, with his speed, quickness, agility, power and size, you'd be getting rid of the perfect weapon in a 3-4 scheme.
Williams could play a few positions in the alignment. First, and most obvious, he's the prototypical defensive end. Bruce Smith is probably the best 3-4 end of all time, and his frame is similar to Mario's. However, Houston's defensive end is a better athlete and would be an absolute nightmare for opposing coaches. The primary requirements of the position is to get after the passer and tie up blockers on passing plays, and set the edge on running plays. Williams has proven to be one of the best in the league at each of these in the more traditional 4-3.
Second, you could use him as a nose tackle in a 3-4 Eagle defense, or the 2-5 on passing downs. In this position, he could provide a quicker pass-rusher up the middle, or allow him to drop into zone coverage in the middle. Fritz Shurmer used to use this formation to throw off Joe Montana in the '80s, and it might work against Peyton Manning, Tom Brady and other quarterbacks who require a more sophisticated approach to confuse them.
Lastly, and the best fit in my opinion, is as an outside linebacker. Williams' aforementioned skill set would allow him to rush the passer from a more advantageous position. Since he would be coming from a wider slot and standing up, he would be able to use his speed to get around offensive tackles. That way, linemen would have a more difficult time getting their hands on him, which has been an issue for Mario since he came into the league. While Clay Matthews and James Harrison are sometimes neutralized by tight ends and running backs picking up the blitz, Mario would be able to simply bull-rush them deep into the backfield, or run them over entirely.
The scheme change would benefit others as well. Coming out of USC, many scouts thought that Brian Cushing would be a better 3-4 outside linebacker than playing on the strong side of a 4-3. Technically, he was better at running the arc and getting to the passer than his teammate, Clay Matthews. With Cushing's strength, range and athletic ability, I could see him as a poor man's DeMarcus Ware.
With Williams and Cushing on the outside, the Texans would have one of, if not the, best outside linebacker combinations in football.
The most important benefit for a change to the 3-4 is the effect it has on the secondary. The 3-4 allows for more creativity and pressure on the quarterback, which decreases the amount of time cornerbacks have to stick to their receivers or sit in zone coverage. Thus, much less is expected of the defensive backfield, which would really help the Texans and their current issues on the back end. Remember, the Steelers defense has been one of the best in the league, in spite of average cornerback play for the past seven or eight years.
As for the other positions, here's how I see the current Texans lining up in a 3-4 scheme. Players with asterisks next to their name would have to be upgraded immediately for the Texans to be an above-average 3-4 unit.
DE—Amobi Okoye
NT—Shaun Cody***
DE—Antonio Smith
OLB—Mario Williams
MLB—DeMeco Ryans
MLB—Zac Diles
OLB—Brian Cushing
CB—Glover Quin
FS—Eugene Wilson***
SS—Troy Nolan
CB—Kareem Jackson
Moreover, with players like Connor Barwin (OLB), Mark Anderson (OLB) and Earl Mitchell (DE) coming off the bench, you would have some depth with guys who are probably more suited to their 3-4 positions than their current ones in the 4-3.
There's no doubt there would have to be some changes, though. As mentioned above, significant upgrades would have to be made for this to work, most importantly, a strong, space-eating nose tackle and a free safety with some range. Currently, the Texans have answers for neither on the roster. But, with their draft position improving weekly, the upgrades may come easier than one would have thought three or four weeks ago.
The most difficult position to replace would be nose tackle. Strong, 6'2", 325-pound behemoths willing to sacrifice statistics and take on multiple blockers just don't grow on trees. It's the reason guys like Vince Wilfork, Casey Hampton and Kris Jenkins are so sought after.
Unfortunately, there are only a few options in the 2011 draft that would help immediately. Probably the most notable would be Marcel Darius out of Alabama. He has the frame to gain weight and would probably have to do so to stand up to the pounding he'd take. However, Paul Soliai (Miami), Gabe Watson (Arizona), Cullen Jenkins (Green Bay) and Johnny Jolly (Green Bay), among others, are suitable free agents that could fit in while searching for a younger option in later drafts.
A playmaking free safety would probably be easier to get in this draft. Most notably, Rahim Moore out of UCLA would be a perfect fit. He has the range and ball skills that would allow him to play center field like Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed. Taking him in the top 10 would be a reach, but you could trade back and still pick him up in the late teens, early 20s.
With the 2010 performance of the Texans defense, just about anything would be an upgrade. But, the way they are currently built, a switch to the 3-4 wouldn't be difficult. As a matter of fact, the way they've drafted over the past five years, it seems as though that was the goal, and leading the way would be Mario Williams, who will be the most versatile player to ever play in the scheme.
96 comments
|
4 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You are worried about this?
When our efense supposedly is so dumb that super smart Frank Bush had to dumb down his scheme for the players.
I believe that the Texans need to score 40 points in every game to be competetive because of efense.
by Barryfromtexas on Jan 1, 2011 11:52 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I think the duumbing down
was more frank bush being too dumb.
I heard Brian Cushing like to do it with girls in a really uncomfortable place and i am not talking about the back seat of a Volkswagen
Go Texans!
Mario Williams wouldn't play OLB
Unless he dropped at least 15 lbs or so… It’s not a matter of straightline speed or quickness, the bulk of his 290 lb body would limit both his lateral agility and cardio too much to go running around on the outside all game long… I just don’t see it happening. He’s a good fit as a 3-4 end, especially in Phillips’ version of the 3-4… I can’t see the Texans trying to force him to play positions he’s never played before in the NFL when he’s a good fit in the one he already plays.
As for FS, I wouldn’t be surprised if Houston kept Jason Allen and put him back at the FS position he played in Miami for a time. I also wouldn’t be surprised if they kept him at CB next year…
Switching to the 3-4 would create alot of “need” positions this offseason during free agency and the draft, but the defense’s poor play has probably done the same whether we change base allignments or not… Only difference probably is the type of players we bring in as replacements moreso than the number of turnover.
Agreed about Mario
but a loss Sunday puts us in position to possibly have a shot at Von Miller. With Mario and Smith at DE and Amobi in the rotation at NT (but we would need to either address a starter in the 2nd round or look in FA) and Cushing and Miller on the outside it would be sick as shit!! Can i get a HELL YA ON DRAFTING VON MILLER!!!????
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 1, 2011 9:23 PM CST up reply actions
Amobi's no NT
And Von Miller isn’t a top-10 prospect…no need to overdraft.
"Lord, beer me strength."
And to further add to that
Von Miller’s name has slid down the draft rankings. Granted, those mean little at this point but he’s definitely not a top-10 pick.
Now…trading back up into the tail end of the 1st round? That’s more plausible for Mr. Miller.
If Houston added Patrick Patterson/Prince Amukamara/Best Available DE/NT and then Miller…well, that would go a long way for the potential 3-4 transition. Kinda like when the Packers took BJ Raii and Clay Matthews in 09.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Bryan,
I agree with you that Mario is a prototypical 3-4 end, but unlike Tyoka Jackson or Richard Seymour, Mario’s lateral movement is better than any player I’ve seen at his size. A couple of years ago, before the Panthers tagged him, Bill Belichick and the Patriots were hoping to get their hands on Julius Peppers to play the OLB in his 3-4. In my opinion, there’s very little difference between the two. I’m not saying that would be my final decision or that he would play there all the time, but I think he can do it.
After all, you’d have a hard time convincing me that James Harrison is a more fluid athlete that Williams.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
It's not that I don't think Willams can play OLB
I just don’t think he can at 290 pounds… I think if he sheds some body mass at came to camp around 270-275 he could easilly play SOLB in the 3-4. But I think he’s better off staying in the position he’s played since forever rather than try to get him adjusted to a new body and position… If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it in other words.
One of the reasons I like him as the rush OLB in the 3-4 is because some of his best games in the NFL has been when Richard Smith used to allow him to move around and get after the quarterback from a standing position. When he comes out like that, he’s been unstoppable.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com.
I agree
3-4 RE’s are more of pass rushers of the defensive linemen in that scheme anyways. Can you name 1 single dominant pass rushing 3-4 LE? I can’t. Richard Seymour (of the Patriots back in the day) and Cullen Jenkins of the Packers now are pass rushing animals that play RE in the 3-4. Considering Williams size and ability, he would be best fit as a 3-4 RE. Also, Wade Phillips like to use 4 down linemen when the offense spreads the field. So Williams would still get the opportunity to get sacks as a traditional 4-3 DE in a sense.
What I’m skeptical about is Brian Cushing being a 3-4 OLB. I see him being a great 3-4 ILB. However, I’m very skeptical of him succeeding at OLB like his former teammate Clay Matthews. I would suggest drafting a pass rushing 3-4 prototypical OLB.
"No player is greater than a team."
-Vince Lombardi
Jabooty, maybe the greatest pass rusher of all time, Bruce Smith, was a 3-4 left end. They moved him around, but he primarily came off the left side. It’s one of the reasons people always wonder how many sacks he could have had if he played in a 4-3 instead.
Also, Cushing was a standout rush OLB when they ran a 3-4 at USC (Pete Carrol did a great job at mixing up the 4-3 and 3-4, which he primarily did because he had four great linebackers that play in the NFL – Maualuga, Matthews, Cushing, and Maiva). He was considered one of the top 3-4 OLB prospects in the 2009 draft.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com.
Welcome, Doc
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
Great post
But I still want Mario playing DE
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Who are you?
I’ve read the first five paragraphs before. Somewhere else. Recently.
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
I cut/pasted the first paragraph into google
the first page is all the exact same article posted everywhere. There’s 5 pages (I didn’t bother to click through).
Its all over.
A bio of the writer
on Bleacher Report, where the article is also posted, mentions DoctorFootball.com
Jordann,
This may look familiar, because it’s been posted on a couple of different sites. My name is Jimmy Neil, and I’ve been on SportsRadio 610, 1560 The Game, and been writing about the Texans since they came into the league.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
I like Mario at DE
but putting him at OLB would, I think, be a mistake. If we want to be creative in our blitzing we can’t just rush Mario on every down, which would mean asking him to drop into coverage. Has he ever had to do that on a regular basis? When we see Dallas Clark and Marcedes Lewis twice a year, the last thing we need is a linebacker who is abysmal in zone coverage.
Mario dropping back into coverage?
/remembers the Richard Smith days
/is now reminded of DeMarcus Faggin’s poor play
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
No way
Could Petey cover as well as Mario.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 3, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Mario dropping into coverage
is grounds for dismissal
/looks at Frank Bush.
"Lord, beer me strength."
This is how I think the defense & depth chart should be set up, with a few suggestions on FA signings
DE—Mario Williams/Earl Mitchell
NT—2nd Round Pick (Alan Branch would be a great FA to plug in here)
DE—Antonio Smith/Amobi Okoye
OLB—Connor Barwin (Manny Lawson would be ideal here)
MLB—DeMeco Ryans
MLB—Darryl Sharpton (definitely need some depth here, draft or sign someone)
OLB—Brian Cushing/Mark Anderson
CB—Glover Quin/Kareem Jackson
FS—1st Round Pick (sign Danieal Manning for depth & KR/PR skills)
SS—Bernard Pollard (Nolan should be his backup)
CB—Jason Allen (preferably Champ Bailey starting if we can sign him)
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
Night Owl,
You bring up some good points, but I have a couple issues:
1. The free agents you recommend, at least a couple of them, would be a good idea, but the Texans rarely go that route.
2. Bernard Pollard is done. He’s absolutely abysmal in coverage, and a free safety has to tackle. His tackling was amongst the worst on the team this year.
3. I think Jason Allen will be kept for depth, but I don’t think a DC will want him as the starter next year.
Thanks for the comment.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
I think the problem with Pollard was that Bush kept him in coverage when that's not his strength
If Wade Phillips is brought in, I see him actually using Pollard correctly, similar to how Roy Williams was used in Dallas. As far as tackling, the entire team needs to get a refresher course in tackling fundamentals. It’s pretty sad when the kicker shows better tackling technique than guys who are paid to tackle
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
by The Night Owl on Jan 4, 2011 3:58 AM CST up reply actions
^That.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 4, 2011 6:32 AM CST up reply actions
In my opinion, the problem with Pollard is twofold. First of all, even when he’s brought down in the box, he’s terrible at taking the right angle and if he gets there, he often whiffs on the tackle. Second, his issues with coverage are amplified because the Texans don’t have, and have never had, a true free safety.
Maybe if the Texans drafted or signed a true free safety, he may play differently.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com.
I think we've been saying a real FS would cover up Pollard's weaknesses for a while now
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
by The Night Owl on Jan 5, 2011 1:09 AM CST up reply actions
I'm sorry but I disagree with alot of that
especially in regards to Mario. I think its possible he could be successful as a 3-4 DE, but I think he would be terrible at OLB. There is much more to linebacker than just rushing the QB which seems to be all you are concerned with. And I would not classify Mario as fast, I would call him quick, for the 10 yards he has to close to get to a QB. I don’t see him as having the speed for pursuit, pass coverage, and sideline to sideline. He’s just too big for that. I mean hes got 30 lbs and a few inches on a guy like DeMarcus Ware.
Furthermore I think its a big risk counting on guys like Barwin and Nolan as anything more than depth. Barwin has never even played linebacker before, and Im sorry but I think Nolan sucks. And considering Diles couldnt take over MLB when Ryans went down, and then couldnt even keep his WLB spot after that, I’m not sure he can be more than just depth at this point. Adibi sucks. Ryans and Cushing are really the only starting caliber linebackers we have. LB is a huge gaping hole. We already need a veteran corner, a new FS, now a switch to 3-4 adds 2 LB holes, a true NT hole and several current players sitting in limbo as to their worth to the scheme. Personally I dont like the idea of hiring Wade and doing the switch. I’d rather get Lewis or Fox and keep the 4-3. If the 3-4 is inevitable though, this is the lineup I see:
DE: Smith
NT: Hole / Adibi
DE: Williams
OLB: Cushing
ILB: Ryans
ILB: Hole / Sharpton
OLB: Hole / Diles
SS: Pollard
FS: Hole / Nolan
CB: Quin / Jackson
CB: Hole / Allen
Thats starting with 5 holes right off the bat. If we are gonna field even a mediocre defense in a 3-4, I hope they are busy as hell in the FA market.
Choo Choo! Get on board the Marvin Lewis train for 2011 Defensive Coordinator.
by DaGoaT on Jan 1, 2011 6:29 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
like I was saying above I think
we’ll have a shot at drafting Von Miller who is one of the sickest OLB to come thru in a while IMO. I think if we made the switch we would HAVE to grab him up if he is still on the board when we are up to pick.
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 1, 2011 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
I like the idea of Von Miller, but I really don’t think he’ll be available at number 11.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
There will be at least five 3-4 teams ahead of the Texans that will want Von Miller. He’s a perfect fit at the OLB position, and no 3-4 team will pass up a pass rusher of his calibur.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
Denver (likely to get defensive line help), Buffalo (could use offensive line help, WR help) , Arizona (QB or CB), San Francisco (QB or CB), Dallas (DB, DL, OL), and Washington (OL, RB, WR) will not take him. Neither will Houston.
Miller’s slid down in mocks to 20-25. Other talent had great seasons and he didn’t. Some team is going to get a pretty good pass rusher, but it won’t be in the top-10.
"Lord, beer me strength."
The last thing I look at for any sort of idea at how a draft will go are mock drafts, except for a few. Lance Zierlein and Rick Gosselin are really good, but they will be the first to tell you that it’s not until a few days before the draft that they get most of their inside information.
Once Miller goes to the combine and displays his incredible skills, he will be towards the top of most GM’s lists, whether they run the 3-4 or 4-3. In addition, most of the good GMs in the league pick for talent, not for need. So, unless the teams in question are really set at the OLB position, I think they’ll consider taking him.
I agree with most of your evaluations for the above teams and their needs, but most talent evaluators will tell you that there are two things that are hard to find and imperative for a successful NFL franchise – a good QB and guys that can get to the QB.
Lastly, and it may sound weird (it certainly did the first time I heard a scout say it), but teams many times put production to the side if they see ways to use a talented player differently than the way their college team did. There was a pretty big discussion about how to use Aaron Curry when he came out. He wasn’t asked to rush the passer at Wake Forest, but people thought that because of his athletic ability, he’d be able to do it for a 3-4 team. In my opinion, the worst thing that happened to him was being taken by a team that ran a 4-3.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com.
pick up champ baily and pick up someone at either of the linebacker positions
Draft a FS, and the other Linebacker position.
Okoye at NT
I think we would be fine.
It may not be perfect, and it would take 2-3 years of drafting for us to fully transition, but i think we can still be effective and much much better than we are right now.
Okoye
Cannot, and should not, be playing a 2-gap NT. if he can’t cut it in as a 4-3 DT, i can’t see him being a true NT a 3-4 requires. Though, he’d be a decent DE.
by typhoon.infamous on Jan 2, 2011 3:10 AM CST up reply actions
I know that Champ Bailey is a popular option for fans, but he’s really lost a step, and I don’t think he’ll be worth the money some teams are going to pay for him.
There’s no way Okoye can play the 3-4 NT. He doesn’t have the core strength to hold up. As it is, he has a hard time getting off single blocks, I don’t think he’ll be able to keep two lineman occupied.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
Agreed on the Okoye part
He’s definitely not an option at NT. But I disagree on your point about Bailey. Although I do think he’s long in the tooth for a CB, he’s on record that he wants to move to safety because of it. I think his side to side speed would be perfectly fine as a FS, however I wouldn’t want him at CB unless it’s because of injury at the position.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Also
If we’re being honest with ourselves, there’s a hole where you have Ryans, as well. Though I do believe Sharpton has shown me enough talent to potentially become a starter.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
The only thing I don't like about this post...
it’s getting me all excited to see if these changes will work..and Dammit I ain’t ready for that.
GO TEXANS!!!!
Our time will come...
We may be well suited for a transition to the "Phillips 3-4"...
Long time lurker, first time poster. Love this board.
Anyway, I came across an interesting article that explains the nuances of the “Phillips 3-4” and it struck me that Smithiak’s focus on lighter, faster, more athletic players (esp in the D-Line) suggests we may be able to make a relatively quick transition to Phillips’ version of the 3-4. Importantly, after reading the article, it makes sense how and why Ratliff was successful at NT for the ‘girls in Phillips’ scheme. Thus, there is some reasonable hope, I think, that we may very well be able to transition in the near term without a monster at NT and focus on finding better players in the secondary and LB depth.
Here tis: http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/7/481970/mhr-university-modern-3-4
Personally, I’d prefer more of a firebrand for DC to counterbalance Kubiak’s relatively low key demeanor, but Phillips has a long track record of success as DC. (And his dad makes damn good bacon to boot!) We could most certainly do worse. And to be honest, as someone who bled Colombia Blue throughout his childhood, bringing a Phillips back into the fold warms my heart. Now, if we could just get McNair to fire Smith and bring in a strong hand as GM….
by USMC_JA on Jan 2, 2011 11:07 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
Newb rec
Welcome, USMC_JA.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
While you’re right that Ratliff is a little light at the NT position for the Cowboys, his strength is unbelievable for a guy his size. We don’t have anyone on the roster that can do the things he does, except for Mario, and he’d be a waste at that position.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
Mario
The “problem” with switching to the 3-4, I have argued, formerly centered around DeMeco and Mario. I think we need to delete DeMeco from the equation as I just don’t see him playing at a high-caliber again. Mario, though, remains extremely problematic. I don’t see any way in which he transitions smoothly to the 3-4, even at end. Definitely no way he can move to OLB.
Then, of course, there’s the fact we have not a single player on or near or roster capable of playing NT.
One move that would intrigue me would be to bring Pollard down to OLB. At this point, I think it’s exceedingly clear he’s no more a safety than I am, and the sooner we admit this point, the better.
Regardless, (and using DaGoat’s list above), there are at least five glaring holes on defense, best case scenario. We’ve got a ridiculous amount of work ahead of us regardless of the scheme.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
3-4 OLB coverage responsibilities?
Do you think Pollard has sufficient coverage skills to play OLB in the 3-4? I have no idea how intense the coverage responsibilities would be so I’m askin’.
"velocitas eradico"
Could he be worse than Diles?
He’d still have some, of course, but at least he’d have experience.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
I think that we all need to agree to stop challenging this team to be worse...
They have proven once and for all that they are up to that challenge…
But seriously, I just hear a lot of concern being expressed about Pollard’s coverage skills so I was just wondering… However, I would imagine that OLB would have fewer coverage responsibilities than Safety nez paw?
"velocitas eradico"
"nez paw?"
You’re terrible! :-)
Fewer and easier. More TEs and RBs versus WRs.
And, wow, you’re so right about challenging them to suck worse. The Texans’ D seems to love that bet.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
Yeah, thats what i was thinking..
plus, i can imagine him blitzing the QB a lot more often. Wouldn’t this move be more beneficial than retaining him as a SS?
by typhoon.infamous on Jan 2, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions
He's no SS
So yes.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
I wouldn't be so sure that bringing Wade in is such an automatic switch to a 3-4
Just because of personnel, I would guess we will show multiple fronts next year. I don’t think Wade would try and force a scheme if the players don’t match….at least without a massive roster overhaul that I don’t see happening year one.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Everywhere that Phillips has coached they’ve run the 3-4, and I don’t think that will change here.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
IIRC he briefly ran a 4-3 at Buffalo.
At least that’s what his dad says.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 4, 2011 6:34 AM CST up reply actions
he ran Ryan's 46 at Philly. He's used 4-3 looks all his career in certain situations
If he is hired I wouldn’t be surprised to see him run plenty of 4 man fronts. He’s always had that package available. As the personnel turns over we would probably go in that direction….unless their is a major overhaul in personnel this off season (which could happen).
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Jan 4, 2011 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Most of his base schemes are off the 3-4. At times, he runs a hybrid, because he takes his best pass rusher and puts them in a 3-point stance on some passing downs. In Dallas, there are several times it looks like he’s running a 4-3, but all he’s really done is put DeMarcus Ware in a down position.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com.
Big Cowboys fan here...
…and I was talking to my Texans fan buddy about ya’ll bringing in Wade to switch to a 3-4. I was thinking it’d be a slow transition for Houston, but looking at your personnel I think you guys could pull it off.
You don’t want Mario at DE. Waste of your assets. He’s gotta play OLB, and I think he could be better at it than he currently is at DE in the 4-3. Now, the reason I believe he could succeed in the 3-4 has more to do with it being specifically the Phillips 3-4. Wade’s version of the D frees up your weakside LB (Which is hopefully where you’d play him) to focus on rushing the passer, and doing it often, compared to more traditional 3-4’s which ask your OLBs to be super-dynamic and fall off into short- and flat-coverages. D-Ware made the Pro Bowl under Parcell’s ‘read-and-react’ two-gap 3-4, but should have won DPOY once Phillips freed him up. I don’t think Mario could cover. I might be wrong.
Your other personnel could work well too. If Cushing could play the strong-side OLB to the level that Anthony Spencer did for about 8 games last year (before regressing terribly this year), I could see your sack totals jump considerably.
I would put Okoye as your weak-side DE, and hope he could live up to his billing every once in a while, and free up Mario even more in doing so. Smith is supposed to be a run-stopper by trade, so team him up with Cushing on the strong-side and hope Ryans can swoop in to clean anything up. Then just get some fat guy to play DT, tell him you’ll cut him if he moves backwards and rotate him in with a half-crazy speed guy on 3rd downs to destroy Peyton when he steps up.
I think your corners will be good. I mean, hell, they flash enough talent….surely they gotta be consistent, solid contributors sooner or later. And I mean that sincerely, not trying to be sarcastic.
Finally, the only way Houston could pull this transition off is if ya’ll traded us Foster for Marcus Spears to base your D. Sorry, but it’s the only way.
Good Luck!
-Cya!
by KaceOFbass on Jan 2, 2011 3:10 PM CST reply actions 8 recs
rec'd for being a half human Cowboys fan
Ive never seen so much evidence on both sides of an arguement. CAN MARIO PLAY OLB OR NOT!!!!!!!!!!???
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 2, 2011 3:49 PM CST up reply actions
Bruce Smith begs to differ
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
by The Night Owl on Jan 2, 2011 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah
That’s Bum’s original implementation of the 3-4: use the weakside LB as your primary pass-rusher. Very nice post.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
Great points, KaceOFbass. Well, until that last point – there’s no way Foster is going anywhere.
You can catch more of Jimmy Neil's work at www.doctorfootball.com and http://bleacherreport.com/users/423098-jimmy-neil.
Except to the bank to cash the check McNair writes for him
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
by The Night Owl on Jan 4, 2011 4:00 AM CST up reply actions
I said the same thing
ive seen what his DE’s do and it would be a waste of Mario Williams to play him there
good luck guys
by Archie Barberio on Jan 4, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
I say eff it
wade should come in and turn our d into a 46 lol
I heard Brian Cushing like to do it with girls in a really uncomfortable place and i am not talking about the back seat of a Volkswagen
Go Texans!
You're right
we’ve just seen THE worst.
by typhoon.infamous on Jan 2, 2011 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
3-4
OH MY GOODNESS………..Wade Phillips? Now we will have the thw softest coaches in the league with ol Gary and Wade. Why we dont pursue Cowher bewilders me. We need some one players respect. Wade cant be taking serious. He looks like hes lost walkin on the sidelines. 3-4 calls for a big adjustment, We need a legit run stopping nosetackle which would mean we have wasted yet another pick on a defensice lineman. Okoye s best attributes are his speed and athletiicm, He is smaller and. Mario wouldnt be horrible but would not look comfortable covering tight ends and recievers. I am praying we some how trade up. Patrick Peterson would be the best possoble draft pick. I feel like its neccesary to do what ever it takes to get this kid. Absolute play maker outta LSU. He has more than held his own against AJ Green and Julio JOnes. This kid can make immediate impact. Also as a kick returner,
by -TrueTexan- on Jan 4, 2011 2:32 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Mario wouldn't be covering anyone, he'd still be a DE in Wade's 3-4
Okoye (and Earl Mitchell for that matter) might also be moved to DE in a 3-4, probably backing up Antonio Smith. Barwin, Anderson, & Cushing would be the most likely options to be playing OLB (possibly even Pollard would work as a 3-4 OLB).
Nose Tackle would obviously be priority #1, pretty much the most likely option to be the 1st Round pick, possibly even signing one in free agency as well. As far as Peterson is concerned, they choked away any chance of drafting him when they trampled over the Glitter Kitties. There’s no way they’re giving up the amount required to trade up for him.
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
by The Night Owl on Jan 4, 2011 4:13 AM CST up reply actions
Newb rec and welcome
Say what you will about Wade as a HC because its undeniable. But there are very few DCs with Wade’s track record. I do fully understand your apprehension, though, and I share it.
As TNO mentions above, Mario would likely be at end OR at OLB largely without coverage responsibilities. However, remember Smith’s awesome strategy of dropping Mario into coverage? Well, he can do it, though it thrills me none.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
If Mario is a an OLB he HAS to drop into coverage occasionally
Having one of your OLB rush every down takes away one big advantage of the 3-4, which is that the defense can’t be sure where the extra rusher is coming from. Same thing with zone blitzes(out of any alignment)…if your going to use them they can’t be predictable which means making it hard for the Offense to know who’s coming and who’s dropping. In our hypothetical 3-4 with Mario at OLB you would hope you can catch the offense sliding protection towards him allowing a hole to open up for another rusher somewhere else (or conversely keep them from sendind too much extra help).
If Mario isn’t going to occasionally drop into coverage then all you are doing is running a 4-3 with a stand up end because you are not using one of the strengths of the 3-4 alignment.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Jan 4, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Does he?
I thought the weakside LB in Phillips scheme has essentially 0 coverage responsibilities
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
primarily yes
…but if the weak side OLB never does anything but rush then IMO that’s not really a 3-4 because one of the basic philosophies of a 3-4, regardless of what flavor, is to confuse the o-line by attacking from different places. If Mario’s going to have zero coverage responsibilities as a WOLB then what’s the point of having him stand up if he’s more comfortable with his hand in the dirt?
If we go to a system where Mario is a stand up end I’m fine with that. I think he’s talented enough to have an impact no matter how they use him…besides I’m in the camp that doesn’t believe their is a scheme in the world that will make this defense great unless some of the gaping holes are fixed. A Chain is only as strong as the weakest link and we’ve got several
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
DeMarcus Ware?
He very rarely has coverage responsibilities.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
Oh...
And the other guy the 0 coverage responsibilities thing sprang to mind was Robert Brazile. While he would drop back into coverage, he was primarily, first and foremost, a pass rusher. Lawrence Taylor would be another example.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
As I'm sitting here talking to myself
And remember that it was Brazile’s style that Taylor duplicated.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
I love those conversations... I can usually win about 30% of the time...
"the laws of physics are immutable and shit"
- tehGrindCrusher
I agree that the majority of the time they don't, and primarily that position is all about rushing the passer.
Taylor was also moved all over the place. I remember a story where a QB couldn’t find him pre-snap with the play clock running down so he called a timeout…Taylor had gone to the sidelines to get a breather.
I’m not saying it’s a good idea to drop Mario(or any 3-4WLB) in coverage, only that if you don’t do it occasionally (out of our hypothetical alignment) then you are limiting your options as a defense IMO. I’m only talking enough to keep the offense off balance so that they can’t get too comfy not worrying about where the 4th rusher is going to come from.
Here’s my question though. If your WLB never has any coverage responsibilities and is more comfortable (effective?) in a three point stance then what’s the point in him standing up? Other than some alignment things there’s not much reason to do it.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
I think we'll drop Mario into coverage occasionally
To answer your final question directly, I believe you at least feint coverage. If we drop Mario into coverage 5-10% of the time, maybe even less, you still create confusion. In addition, you can bring him at different angles (and sides) to confuse the QB (not unlike what we have been doing with him).
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
exactly
We already do some of that anyway. Most of this is just semantics because what happens once the ball snapped is more important than the details of what we call the alignment.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
True
As MDC said, we really won’t be asking our dlinemen to do anything much different than they did last year.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
jmo
Mario would have to be a OLB in Wade’s system, because his DE’s are there clog their gaps and make plays on the run, their not supposed to be pass rushers
to not move Williams to a OLB like Ware would be a complete waste of Mario’s talent
he is one of the best defensive players in the NFL
Mario is great enough to succeed anywhere, I just think at DE in a 3-4 it would be a waste of his talents
by Archie Barberio on Jan 4, 2011 10:06 AM CST reply actions
Not necessarily
Wade’s system uses a lot of one gap principles for the lineman.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
im telling you it would be a waste man
ive seen what he wants out of his DE’s and it would be a waste of a great player to put Mario there
by Archie Barberio on Jan 4, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
Bruce Smith did OK running his system
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
yeah he did
Ive just seen what the current 3-4 DE’s have to occupy and maintain
most people are saying the same thing about Mario as a 3-4 DE that have witnessed Wade’s defense
idk if you want him there thats fine, but I would just want Mario playing like Ware, using his talent to his best ability
by Archie Barberio on Jan 4, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Players make the scheme IMO, so with the right personnel there is no reason a 3-4 end can't have an impact
It’s not a matter of what I want, but comparing Mario to Ware just isn’t a good comparison. Williams has a few inches and 30 or so pounds on Ware. No matter how amazing an athlete Mario is I just don’t see him having the lateral quickness and agility in space to play OLB. I know his primary role would be as a pass rusher, but he will have to drop into space occasionally or you are not utilizing one of the main strengths of a 3-4 alignment…keep the offense guessing.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Or Connor Barwin
This comment has been brought to you by...
Clorox Eye Wash
Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
and by
Drano Classic Milkshakes
Drano Milkshakes, For when a slow, painful death is preferable to watching the Texans play defense
by The Night Owl on Jan 4, 2011 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
yes,or Barwin
There’s a lot of speculation flying around about who could or couldn’t make the transition to 3-4 LB. I really don’t understand the argument against Barwin. If anyone is able to adapt to a new position you’d think it would be him. To go from playing TE to DE so late in college, then get drafted as high as he did is very impressive.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Battle Red Blog
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Alex Smith gets blown up by Jon Beason over Cam Newton comments
- Having finally landed, Kellen Winslow looks for a fresh start in Seattle
- Tim Tebow teased with chants of ‘Lolo!’ in Jets locker room
- The Shutdown Corner Podcast: Greg Cosell on the NFC South Draft
- BREAKING: Tim Tebow did not become a great quarterback today
