That's So Crazy, It Just Might Work: Examining Wade Phillips' 3-4 Scheme
Look, I am as prone to overreaction as the next guy.1 I know that there are times when a situation or a decision seems so bad that some reactionary "RABBLE! RABBLE! ANGER!" is cathartic. That's why, when I see people losing it over the prospect of Wade Phillips and a 3-4 and what all of that will mean for [insert player here], I understand where that emotion comes from.
Conversely, I am usually NOT one who attempts to be the voice of reason, at least not in written form.2 Reason lacks the emotion that makes me care enough to write about something.
I said all of that to say this: Wade Phillips' system might actually be a good thing for this squad. I'll explain why after you go Jumpin' Jumpin' like Destiny's Child.
First things first, let's take a look at exactly what Wade's system is (and discuss how that differs from a traditional 3-4).
Linemen. In a traditional 3-4 the three defensive lineman play primarily a two-gap style. The Nose Tackle, generally an exceedingly large individual, lines up directly over center in a 0-technique, and has responsibility for both A gaps. The defensive ends, who were also among the largest children in their grade school class, line up directly over the tackles in a 5-technique, and they each have responsibility for their corresponding B and C gaps. Here's a pretty picture I made in MS Paint:
Obviously, if you are responsible for two gaps, you cannot charge through one or the other all willy-nilly and leave the other exposed. For this reason, two-gap defensive lineman have to play a read-and-react style to see which of their respective gaps needs attention.
Phillips' system, however, has the linemen --- even the nose tackle --- playing a one-gap system. At the snap, each of those linemen picks one of his two gaps and shoots through it. He is responsible for anything coming through that gap, with the linebackers responsible for anything coming through an open gap. (We'll cover the linebackers more in a second.) While Phillips' scheme does generally use larger DEs similar to what you'd find in the traditional two-gap 3-4 front, his system does not require them. Case in point, while all of Dallas' DEs this year were over 300 lbs, Luis Castillo played at 290 or less while Phillips was there. Yes, that's big in a 4-3 DE, but that's undersized in your traditional 3-4 mold.
Nor does Phillips' plan require a massive nose tackle. Sure, he will use them when he can get them (again, think San Diego with 340+ lb Jamal Williams), but they are not required because, in Phillips' scheme, the nose tackle has no more responsibility for eating up blockers than does any other defensive lineman. In fact, one of Dallas' starting DEs, Igor Olshansky, weighed more than Dallas' starting NT, Jay Ratliff, who is listed at 6-4/303 (though he is probably closer to 310 these days).
Linebackers. At the second level, Phillips' scheme is much more similar to what you see in any 3-4. The weak OLB is the primary source of pass rush from the linebacking corps, both ILBs are responsible for runners coming through the A and B gaps (with the Weak ILB having more pass coverage duties and the Strong ILB having more of a pass-rush role), and the strong OLB is responsible for TE coverage and for runs to the C gap or outside the TE on that side.
The way Phillips' system changes things up a bit, however, is primarily with respect to his weak OLB. While with Dallas, Phillips had DeMarcus Ware in that role, and Ware functioned more as a fourth lineman than a linebacker, with his ears pinned back and a blitz responsibility on an overwhelming number of plays. When Ware was asked to cover, it was almost entirely by dropping into the near flat in a zone; he was almost never asked to cover a RB in man coverage.
The other change, which builds of the Weak OLB role, is that the question mark on most blitzes was limited to which one or two of the other LBs was coming on a blitz, as the defense blitzes a LOT. While this would seem to limit the effectiveness of the 3-4 by removing some of the surprise that a defense like the New York Jets' is predicated upon, in truth it has just the opposite effect. Because teams knew that Ware was coming on pretty much every play, he became a focal point with protection sliding that way and teams trying to block that front as if it was a 4-3, leaving themselves open to the more aggressive nature of Phillips' 3-4. In other words, by bringing Ware and having all three linemen shoot the gaps rather than read-and-react, Phillips created something similar to the Jim Johnson 4-3, but with the added flexibility that came from having Ware slightly off the line (wrecking the offensive line's spacing and ability to pull a guard) and from having good pass rushers at Strong OLB who could make a team pay if they overreacted to the Weak OLB's role.
Secondary. Because of the aggressive, blitzing nature of the front seven, the corners in Phillips' secondary do about what you'd expect: press coverage, bump-and-run to disrupt timing where possible, drop the strong safety into the middle to fill for vacating ILBs. For the system to work well, you need a strong safety who is a sure tackler in the open field and a free safety who is adept at both man and zone coverage. Corners who can tackle are also a plus, given the amount of green that is often between them and the next defensive player because of the front seven generally moving forward, but corners who can play man and keep up with WRs are a must.
***
Everyone up to speed? Good. Now here's where we have our first big wrinkle (and one of the main reasons I think this system would work for Houston): Phillips' defense is only a 3-4 about half the time.
Zuh?
Yup. On first down and shorter second downs, the one-gap 3-4 we've just discussed is the defensive alignment. On third down and long second downs, however, Phillips' scheme calls for a four-man front with nickel coverage behind it. On the line, this generally involves pulling your larger DEs, putting the OLBs at DE, and putting in a second tackle. If necessary, one or both of the ILBs are replaced by the nickel LBs (though nothing says it couldn't be the same two ILBs in both packages). The corners lay off a bit in the nickel, too, as you would expect.
All of this means, of course, that we're not changing everything and fashioning a new scheme out of thin air. We already have experience with about half of the defense that Phillips would bring! Throw in that Phillips' 3-4 front functions like a bigger (player-wise) version of the Jim Johnson 4-3 defensive model that we all drool over, and you start to see how it could work.
Downsides. Like any defense, Phillips' scheme has its flaws. First and foremost, the defense leaves the middle open a lot, which can be especially damaging against a power running team. See here:
As you see, when a running back beats the initial wave of linemen and blitzing linebackers, he is pretty quickly into the open, with only the free safety and (possibly) the strong safety having much of a chance to catch him.
The second flaw, related to the first, is that teams can plan knowing that the middle is going to be open a lot, meaning that teams with athletic TEs or teams who run a lot of slants/dig routes can find success and can base their offense around that hole. This weakness can be countered somewhat by utilizing the Strong OLB in TE coverage and keeping one of the ILBs home if the other is blitzing, but then you start to negate some of your options in the pass rush. You can also counter this weakness by generating enough pass rush that there's no time for TE drags or 10-yard dig routes to develop.
Of course, every defense has its flaws, ESPECIALLY THE ONE WE'VE BEEN RUNNING IN TWO SIMILAR FORMS SINCE 2006. I'll be damned if I am going to let the idea that, "Oh noes, there's a hole in that defense!" prevent me from upgrading the current vanilla-blitzing, terrible-secondary-in-a-stupid-soft-zone, oh-my-lord-why-can't-we-stop-a-single-pass, I-think-I-want-to-die-yes-please-kill-me-now scheme.
Wade Phillips as applied in Houston. So, assuming you buy the idea that this just might be crazy enough to work, what is the defensive lineup with our current personnel in this scheme? Glad you asked, imaginary person who asks rhetorical questions!
I see it like this:
Base 3-4
RDE-Antonio Smith. Smith is my biggest question mark (other than DeMeco Ryans' health) in this whole thing, oddly enough. In discussing the possibility of a 3-4, albeit a 2-gap system like he played in Arizona, Smith mentioned that he was in the 275-lb range these days. I don't see that as a deal breaker here, however, because his familiarity with the tenets of national socialism a 3-4 defense combined with the freedom to play one-gap, should allow him to be fine. Besides, nothing says homeboy couldn't pack 10 or 15 lbs back on, right?
NT-Amobi Okoye. Tim and Kerns' collective heads just exploded, so could someone please clean that up while I explain? As I mentioned already, Phillips does not need a massive NT. Okoye, listed at 6-2/315, is two inches shorter and a few pounds heavier than Jay Ratliff, and none of you would complain that Ratliff was too small for this system. I'd almost like to see Okoye slim down slightly to the 305-310 range, in fact. Either way, though, you have to remember that Okoye was at his best early in his rookie season when he was being asked to simply shoot the gap and chase the quarterback. This system would allow him to do that again, and he's the right size for the role. So there.
LDE-Earl Mitchell. When Mitchell was drafted, many of us were angry at the prospect of another 300-lb DT. Guess what? His size is perfect for playing DE in this scheme, so I say we line him up over the RT and use his good motor --- can I say that about a black player? --- to our advantage. He also looked good near the end of this season playing a one-gap under tackle role, and this is not all that different from that.
WOLB-Mario Williams. I realize that Mario, at 290+, seems a better fit for DE than WILB. I disagree for two reasons: (1) Mario's skills would be wasted to a large degree as a defensive end and (2) Mario can thrive in the DeMarcus Ware role. There is literally nothing Ware can do in that role that Mario couldn't do. Come flying off the edge with a running start and beat the LT who also has responsibility for Antonio Smith? Easy peasy. Use that same running start and beat the LT with a bull rush? Hell, that's easier than the way Mario does it now, starting from a three-point stance. Tackle a running back rushing off left tackle? Sho'nuff. Drop into the flat zone? Mario has done it before, in what he calls "the Richard Smith years."
WILB-DeMeco Ryans. I'm not gonna lie --- I am worried that DeMeco is never coming back. Achilles' injuries have been the death knell for careers before. That said, for this little exercise, I am going to pretend that he will be back in a Texans uniform in 2011. As such, he's a natural fit for the WILB role in this D, both because he is the best coverage linebacker we have and because he doesn't blitz all that well.
SILB-Brian Cushing. Q: In 2010, how did you know when Brian Cushing was blitzing? A: He was standing at the line of scrimmage. That's it. That was the tell, and everyone knew it, which really limited his pass rush success. Because this defense allows a middle linebacker to show blitz even when he's not really blitzing, teams couldn't be sure that Cushing was coming (which sounds dirty, but isn't.) Also, if Amobi is successful in the one-gap system like I think he'll be, that will open up the opposite A-gap for Cushing to blitz right up the middle on occasion.
SOLB-Connor Barwin. Recall when Barwin was drafted that most experts had him pegged as a 3-4 OLB and too much of a 'tweener to succeed in a 4-3 as an every down player. Now recall that we are talking about making him a 3-4 OLB. Seems simple enough.
CB1-Glover Quin. OK, it would actually make the most sense to move Quin to free safety, where I agree with the BFD school of thought that says that Quin would be a fantastic FS. That said, we all know ain't nobody in that coaching staff thinking THAT far outside the box right now, so let's stick with what is more likely. Quin is a sure tackler in the open field and is orders of magnitude better in tight man coverage than in Frank Bush's ridiculous soft zone.
CB2-Kareem Jackson. I still think K-Jax can be a good NFL corner (though I also still think it was silly to pick him where we did, given who was still on the board), and it really seemed like his play improved post-San Diego. I think putting him up at the line in press coverage would allow him to use his skill set more effectively and, if we are getting the pass rush we should be in this scheme, he won't have to cover as long as he did in 2010.
SS-Bernard Pollard. Pollard's lack of coverage skills would be more of a problem in a traditional 3-4, but they can be hidden somewhat in this scheme, which often calls for him to fill underneath when the WILB picks up the running back in coverage and the SILB is blitzing. Don't get me wrong --- I'd upgrade this position in a second if I could, but this system actually made Gerald Sensabaugh look decent, so Pollard should be passable.
FS- _________? Troy Nolan's acrobatic INT notwithstanding, nothing I've seen from any free safety on currently on this team gives me the slightest pause in saying that we don't have one (unless we would move Quin, of course.) There are two safeties in the draft that I like, Rahim Moore (UCLA) and Kenny Tate (Maryland), and one of them is almost sure to be on the board when we pick in round 2. (Deunta Williams, UNC, is also intriguing, but third on my list.)
Nickel Package.
RDE-Mario Williams
UT-Amobi Okoye/Earl Mitchell
LDE-Tim Jamison/Mark Anderson/Antonio Smith
LB-DeMeco Ryans
LB-Darryl Sharpton
CB1-Glover Quin
CB2-Kareem Jackson
CB3-Sherrick McManis
SS-Troy Nolan/Bernard Pollard
FS- _________?
Epilogue. I should add a couple other things to this whole discussion. First, given our current personnel, I actually see a lot of potential for the flexibility I've been craving from this defense. If we want to go bigger across the front against a power running team, a troika of Earl Mitchell/Damione Lewis/Amobi Okoye would work. Sharpton at either ILB position along with Cushing and Barwin's abilities to play both OLB spots add flexibility there. I could definitely see a package with a front three of Mario/Okoye/Jamison, with Barwin at WOLB and Cushing at SOLB.
Second, to the extent that Houston needed to add some size on the line, there are a number of free agents who would be good fits, with my top 6 wishlist being: Shaun Ellis, Barry Coefield, Cullen Jenkins, John McCargo, Chris Hoke, and Marcus Spears.
Third, in addition to free safety, making this switch would likely require us to find via free agency or target in the draft a MLB (depending on DeMeco's status, really). We should also be open to the idea of upgrading at CB should Prince Amukamara fall to us (and moving Quin to FS!?!).
Finally, there's this: I am not saying that Wade Phillips' system is perfect for us, nor am I saying that it would be my first choice, all else being equal. At the same time, all else is NOT equal, and we are somewhat hamstrung by the fact that Wade seems to be Kubiak's first choice. That being the case, I just want everyone to take a deep breath. The sky is not falling. The end is not nigh. This might not be great, but it's almost certainly going to be an upgrade in terms of defensive output. With the offense we have, an upgrade might be all we need.
***
1 Actually, that's probably an understatement; I mean, look at my interaction with Matt Stevens' ex-wife. But she really had it coming, you know.
2Around here, we save that for Rivers and, in matters of blog decorum, Timobi.
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One thing he didn't mention
The only other person that’s been more vehement against moving to the 3-4 than me is MDC. Something to consider once you’ve read this post.
Fantabulous job.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 4, 2011 1:06 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
I hated the idea
but the more I read about Phillips style of 3-4 the more I think it could work, and work well with our personel.
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
This is true.
I’d be apoplectic if we were talking 2-gap 3-4.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Ditto
Although, I know they wouldn’t do ANYTHING that wasn’t intended on yeilding immediate results, due to the short leash Kubes is now stupposedly on with Bobby Mac. Everyone’s job is on the line with any move that’s made, regardlesss of alignment.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
I still read the tags.
This is amazing, by the way.
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
DreKeem sighting
He came here to read the tags….
I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.
Wrong, Rip
I came back just for you.
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"That said, we all know ain't nobody in that coaching staff thinking THAT far outside the box right now, so let's stick with what is more likely."
I think you hit the nail on the head. Nobody currently employed by the Texans sees this as a possibility or even plausible option, but therein lies the caveat, I guaran-damn-tee Wade does.
I think at the end of the offseason we’ll end up with Pat Williams as our big-beefy NT, a FA corner to be our primary CB1, KJax at CB2, and we will release most of our backup LBs and pick up one very good blitzing LB to backup DeMeco and sometimes fill the ILB opposite DeMeco.
Lots of flexibility considering our current players actually makes the Wade 3-4 not only a good option, but perhaps considering current personnel, the very best option available.
My only problem now is why the wait for them to get rid of Bush if Wade’s been available since roughly week 8 or 9? Why not bring in Wade, let him tweak with the system and the players to see what’s really there? You knew your defense sucked. It was as plain as the shit on the walls in the Reliant Stadium bathrooms.
And now that I've reread some of your ending thoughts...
You apparently agree with my FA assessments. Lol.
Also, nice writeup MDC. A wealth of knowledge buried somewhere in there apparently (there referring to your thick skull >.>).
getting Quin to move to FS would involve getting a GOOD CB or two honestly because he’s all we got at the moment.
one of my good friends is a Huge Vikings fan and a big Fat Pat Williams fan and if Pat walks from the Vikings he will retire. and that is apparently what Williams said so i wouldnt bank on that unless we heap money onto his gut.. which again… bodes poorly for bringing him in.
lets pray we get a good FS lol
My body has built a tolerance to bleach. My favorite flavor is Lemon.
by BattleRedHusker on Jan 5, 2011 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
We already need one good CB
moving him would require us to get two, and probably in free agency, and I don’t see that happening
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
Cush and meco play the middle
Barwin and FA at OLB. I think you trade Mario and smith. This is a big rebuilding project, but it needs to be done.
Pollard, Wilson, quin to a lesser extent, okoye, Cody, diles all need to be gone, and this will help
I’m for it! Did you cry when you wrote this
by AllenOU on Jan 4, 2011 1:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Trading Mario
will make me kill someone. It would also be retarded.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 11 recs
From now on, anyone who mentions trading Mario
because he won’t fit in this scheme gets the banhammer.
by Mike Kerns on Jan 4, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
happy days are here again
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
by nolander on Jan 4, 2011 2:44 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
one day people will appreciate him...
one day…
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
It truly baffles me when people still hate on Mario
I can see Tim’s point on Okoye. I don’t agree with him, but at least I can see his argument.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Jan 4, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well Mario is only good if you take into account that
he is near the top of the league in sacks hurries and hits, those things aren’t really important though.
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
by nolander on Jan 4, 2011 2:50 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
But he's had zero interceptions
in the last four seasons! how can he be good?
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
by Jordann on Jan 4, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny you mention that.
In Madden yesterday he reached up and snag a pass AS IT LEFT THE QB’s HAND and ran it back 50 yards for a TD.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Nope.
He needs to be up there in scrappiness before most people will take notice. It’s the Woodhead Corollary.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
If he would just overun a few more plays, but look like he's working really hard at it
people might appreciate him. Maybe yell a cuss word or two every now and then in training camp.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Do a stupid hog-tie sack dance
Drive drunk, drive drunk again, be racist…
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I want Jared Allen to be the next Madden Cover boy
just so we can laugh at him when his career and hopefully he finally dies
Scrappiness?
Doesn’t that only apply to white guys?
I am totally optimistic about the Texans new season - at least until the first of the 4 or 2 (if any) preseason games
by Barryfromtexas on Jan 4, 2011 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
I am all for Mario as a Texan until he retires
Bu tto be fair and upfront about some of the wishy washy-ness of people opinions around here: I brought up Mario in a 3-4 during the season when discussing “shaking up the defense”, and EVERYONE thought it was a bad idea. Including Rivers and a TDC i believe. Im not saying they dont still think so Im just saying I didnt see ANYONE saying he could play well in a 3-4 until now.
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 4, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
it depends on the 3-4
I’m not really a 3-4 fan, but Wade’s version could work….but I think what we will end up with is basically going to be a 4-3 with Mario as a stand up end.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
In a traditional 3-4
Mario would be wasted.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
I think the problem is
at least for me, a lot of people are/where unaware of the difference between a one gap and two gap 3-4.
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
Well i thought the convo started bc Phillips was fired
So we discussed bringing him in and what would change. The point is that there is valid evidence either way that Mario may or may not be able to fit as a OLB or succeed as a RDE in The Phillips or any other 3-4 defense. Its all really speculation until it happens and the coaches get a chance to see him work in it. BUT if he does not fit or excel, its not crazy to discuss trading Mario at a point of value to attain picks or players to shore up spots of greater need.
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 5, 2011 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Haven't your heard?
The NFL doesn’t do trades player for player, and you’d never be able to get the value out of a Mario trade. Smith, maybe, but Mario no way in hell.
I'll take a 2 2nd rounders for Mario in a heartbeat
If we had a competent GM. Could turn into a starting FS and NT of the future
by AllenOU on Jan 4, 2011 1:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nobody is going to pay 2 2nd rounders for Mario
And I believe Wade likes Mario anyways, so he’s not going anywhere.
Why would you do that before
you can see if Mario can pull it off? If he can he is worth far more then that.
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
You'd trade Mario
For Ben Tate and Connor Barwin? Are you being serious?
Frank Bush delenda est
Must be that North Oklahoma logic
We know there’s not much in South OK
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by The Night Owl on Jan 4, 2011 11:43 PM CST up reply actions
Wow quin?
has been the saving grace to our pittiful secondary. it seems like you want to blow up the D and start over…. I think Okoye could still work, I do agree on diles and wilson… Pollard I think if used properly can be a force.
I heard Brian Cushing like to do it with girls in a really uncomfortable place and i am not talking about the back seat of a Volkswagen
Go Texans!
Thinking on EW...
Durga help us if Wade, or any incoming DC, thinks EW has any talent at Safety.
By my estimates...
It’ll be around Thursday or Friday of this week. We’ll have a new Defensive Backs coach by next week Thursday or Friday, and a new LB coach by the following Monday or Tuesday.
One of these new coaches will come from a college. I’m just saying.
Eff college coaches we need to go take a highschool Defense Coach throw him
to the lions
I heard Brian Cushing like to do it with girls in a really uncomfortable place and i am not talking about the back seat of a Volkswagen
Go Texans!
I hear Frank Bush is available..
My body has built a tolerance to bleach. My favorite flavor is Lemon.
by BattleRedHusker on Jan 5, 2011 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
High school
Not pee wee.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
lol well countered sir
and now, Frank Bush’s son drawing up schemes for his dad:

My body has built a tolerance to bleach. My favorite flavor is Lemon.
by BattleRedHusker on Jan 6, 2011 7:22 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The Lions had better defensive coaches than we did
They wouldn’t want them
This comment has been brought to you by...
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Has the Texans defense become too excruciating to watch? Clorox Eye Wash is the solution for you. Apply directly to the eyes & the slight pain will provide everlasting relief from the vision of the Texans Defense
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by The Night Owl on Jan 5, 2011 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Only because Matt Millen isn't there anymore.
How much you want to wager if he were still in charge there he wouldn’t have jumped at the chance to hire Frank Bush?
I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now help me find my pants!
by UprootedTexan on Jan 5, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
Matt Millen would do that
Their current staff wouldn’t
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
by The Night Owl on Jan 5, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions
Still Not Buying Okoye As A NT
Even if I accept the notion that he’s big enough to play NT in the Phillips 3-4, I am not convinced he’s good enough to play NT in the Phillips 3-4. Or in a traditional 3-4. Or a traditional 4-3. Or a 4-4. You get my point.
I suppose the oft-heard argument that he needs a planetoid lined up next to him to truly succeed becomes a non-issue if the team transitions to a 3-4. That may be considered progress.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
Okoye doesn't thrill me at all anywhere
He’s a tweener no matter where you put him and no matter what scheme it is. I think this elevates NT/DT to the number one draft need, IMO. At #11, the Texans should be able to find a quality player. Okoye needs to go to where he should have been all these years, and that is as a backup. He is a quality backup. There, I said it. Okoye is a quality backup and the team needs to find a player to come in and play that position as the starter.
I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.
I will go along with Okoye and Mitchell platooning at LDE
They are practically the same guy. Neither is a full-time starter. If they are platooning, at least they can use their motors at full speed because they can always look forward to resting while the other is taking his place on the field.
I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.
I don't have a problem with Okoye at DE in this scheme.
I just think he’s a good fit for NT as well. If, for example, Damione Lewis showed he could be the NT we need, Amobi at DE would be a pretty solid play in my book.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Disagree on NT
I don’t think he’s powerful enough to play NT, even if it’s a 1 gap scheme. Plus he’d have to bulk up again. Remember, he shed weight coming into this season because he thought it would help his game get back to his rookie form, so I think he’s back down around 290 or so if I’m not mistaken. That’s not a bad size for a 1 gap 3-4 DE though.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
I'm not completely sold with Okoye as a DT either
I think it would be OK in certain situations, but I would still rather have a more traditional nose…no matter the scheme.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Oh, sure
But traditional 3-4 DTs cost a shitload, and many lack the quickness that you’d like to see in a one-gap, so it’s sort of catch-22 there.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
but you know how much I love big fat (drunk) guys
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Except
Even you have remarked on how well he played during the first part of his rookie year, when he was doing exactly what this system would ask of him. If he was good enough to do that then, why would you think he’s not good enough to do it now.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Because he has regressed the last 2 years
From shitty Texan coaches over coaching but in reality under coaching or not really coaching at all.
You know, like all the other defensive draft picks.
Cush, Bennett, okoye etc. The list is LONG
by AllenOU on Jan 4, 2011 2:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Because
I don’t believe he’s developed at all, and there’s a whole lot more film on him four years in than there was during that first half of his rookie season.
I just don’t think the guy’s a difference-maker. He had a good rookie year, thanks to a great start to his first season as a professional football player. He was a total non-factor in ‘08 and ’09 before showing brief flashes—though nothing that I’d consider proof he’s breaking through—this year. I simply won’t believe he can be a consistently productive starter on defense until he actually shows the ability to do it more than once every five games.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Jan 4, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
I think he was fairly solid this year with a couple of pretty good games
Star? No….but he contributed this year in a positive way.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
^This
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
What will this be now, three consecutive off-seasons spent, what's the word, "denigrating" Amobi Okoye>?
I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.
Re: Amobust
I LOVED the selection of Okoye when it was made back in the 2007 draft. I was a big fan during his rookie year and more or less gave him a pass on ’08. I began complaining in earnest during ’09, I believe.
So I think this qualifies as my second offseason of hating, though I could be wrong.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Jan 4, 2011 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
There's so much hate
The years start to bleed together.
Frank Bush delenda est
This is true.
But it’s also irrelevant, really, since we are already stuck with having made the pick.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
Should be two separate evaluations
One is evaluating the draft, another is evaluating the play. Draft position shouldn’t factor into to the second one. Everyone’s guilty of it, but too often we are too forgiving of a guys play if he was drafted late, and too harsh of a player who went early. At the end of the day the only impact draft position has on how well someone plays is in the owners pocketbook.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
I don't either
Personally i’d like for them to bring Cody back… I know he gets knocked on for being “average” or “mediocre”, but he does a very good job against the run and wouldn’t give up alot of wide open holes in the middle like Okoye would. Okoye I think at times tries so hard to be a pass rusher that he forgets he has other responsibilities.
I don’t agree with people that he doesn’t get enough pressure on the QB though, in recent years Okoye has been near the top of DTs for hurries… I know hurries aren’t sacks, but they do count as pressure and in the right system they could probably result in more sacks.
For Cody to be "average"
he’d have to improve.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Alot of people seem to feel that way
But from what i’ve seen this season, I thought Cody was the most consistent player we had on the defensive line. That’s not saying anything against Mario Williams, but he had a fairly inconsistent year due to injuries and playing with the sports hernia… Cody is just one of those guys that doesn’t do anything flashy to make you think “he rocks!”, but he gets his job done consistently and that helps set others up for those big plays. That’s what you want out of a NT, a guy who doesn’t mind doing the dirty work so others can make plays… Some people keep wanting a “playmaker” at NT, but that’s not really what the position is about… Even if we get a dominant fat SOB to clog the middle, you’re not going to see him get much over 25-30 tackles and if he manages to get a sack or two you consider that a bonus.. not something you judge quality of play on at NT.
Somone mentioned that Okoye was the leading tackler among defensive linemen this year…, well Shaun Cody was tied for 2nd with just 5 less total tackles than Okoye.., and this while playing the “NT” position and having 2 blockers on him a great deal just from allignment alone. He didn’t get alot of QB pressures or sacks, but as the “NT” he wasn’t really supposed to.
I don’t think Cody is among the elite NTs, or close for that matter… But if we couldn’t find a better solution in FA, i’d be pretty comfortable if the re-signed Cody for another couple years to fill the role until a replacement could be found. With Cody you know he’s not going to be great and win you games by himself, but you also know he’s not going to be terrible and cost you games… for a team with no proven 3-4 NT on its roster, i’ll take that for the time being.
I actually
likes Cody this year too.. and I thought he played smart. He was the best to sniff out screen plays and stuff like that while the other players on the line was running upfield.. so I quietly agree with you on that one.
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
He was the best player we had at sniffing out screens.
thats all I got
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
Ya know who I'd like to see as DB coach?
John Fox.
Yeah…anyone else notice what he can do with DBs? Wow.
I imagine he could get a DC job
I doubt he would take that kind of pay cut, but I’d love it if he did
by LouisianaTexan on Jan 4, 2011 2:40 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
yeah
I don’t think we can expect to see any former head coaches taking anything less than coordinator jobs because they could always go back to college and head up any of those programs for big money.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Not many would...but...
Consider whether or not Fox would want the headache of a full on DC gig or not right now. Why not take a season or two and do what you do best, let your name get bolstered up and prove you’re the best damn coach at making DBs out of a pile of shit and two sticks (come on, that’s what we have right now)? You’re probably right…but then again, you just never know.
Compared to the headache of being a HC for a shitty team.....
Moving back to DC is probably a cake walk. That’s why guys like Dom Capers are able to turn back into good coaches pretty quick after taking a step back. DB coach would be too far of a step back I think, but I get what you’re saying. I’d love to have a staff full of former HC’s at every position.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Rich Rodriguez got fired by Michigan today...
Something tells me he knows Kubiak somehow, and I called it that we’d have some college coach as a assistant coach/position coach somewhere. Juuuuust sayin.
Outstanding analysis
I think we will still have LB depth problems, but is sure seems like we could quickly pull this off with a couple FA’s and a sound draft.
Agreed on depth at LB
Even with a healthy DeMeco, and assuming we include Mario in this discussion, I only see six or seven LBs who should be on the roster next year (Ryans, Williams, Cushing, Sharpton, Barwin, Adibi, and possibly Greenhouse). Having one more difference maker who could play inside would be nice. David Harris is a free agent, I believe.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
I like Sharpton's potential
He seemed to play pretty well when called upon. I don’t know how that would translate to a 3-4 but he’s got some skill.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Depth at ILB
would be especially nice, but there’s precious few ILBs in the early part of the draft that I see. Free Agent-wise, David Harris is available, as is Barrett Ruud (who should come cheap).
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Quick clarification re: Kareem Jackson
You said
if we are getting the pass rush we should be in this scheme, he won’t have to cover as long as he did in 2010
.
Seeing as he only covered for an average of 0.013 seconds in 2010, you must be envisioning one hell of a pass rush. Sold!!
Well done.
I have to agree with that for our whole secondary
usually a pass rush has to help out the secondary….but when the WR, TE’s, RB’s are open immediately on the snap of the ball all the QB has to do is throw it.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
That's where the press coverage should help.
In theory, at least.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Like all the press we tried to play against Dallas?
Players make the scheme.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
I agree with you.
But I think asking guys to play press when you’ve had them playing weak zone for the season to that point is asking quite a bit. I mean, it’s fairly obvious that Glover is better when he gets to play man and be physical. Kareem can’t really be worse playing up on the line than falling down in the zone, right? Plus he’ll have a real coach (in theory) helping him with technique and a real free safety (in theory) helping out as needed.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I’m just on my, “now that Bush is finally gone can we stop bitching about him and realize how bad some of our defensive starters were kick”.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
My biggest problem with Bush is how he never settled in what he wanted to do
Instead of fixing mistakes or flaws we would try press coverage one week, then maybe try out some zone blitzing the next….then lets go back to the zone, but softer this time.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
My biggest problem with him.
Is that he is retarded, not good at his job, and was only hired because he once at a Denny’s in Denver.
Actually, I guess that’s three problems.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
You accidentally a whole
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
by nolander on Jan 4, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That's a very good point.
I am hopeful that people will also start to realize how good some of the disappointing ones can be and how shitty some of the smoke-and-mirrors “good” ones are.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Fuck that.
I want my corners giving an eight yard cushion on our 5-yard line.
/weeps uncontrollably
/snatches at imaginary flies
/plots disappearance of Frank Bush
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 12:13 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Amobi Okoye and Earl Mitchell have no place in this defense.
Our DEs would be Mario Williams, Antonio Smith, Tim Jamison, and Tim Bulman.
Okoye is horrid against the run and could not hold up at the point of attack in a 0/1-tech. He needs to be traded.
Why is he holding up at the point of attack?
wouldn’t his responsibility in this scheme simply be to shoot the gap?
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
No. That wouldn't be his only responsibility.
Even playing in a one-gap scheme rather than a two-gap, the point of “shooting the gap” is still to occupy it and hold up. This isn’t a third-and-long, get-up-the-field every play assignment. If you’re shooting a gap, you’re responsible for not getting washed out of it and maintaining gap discipline in a way that neither Okoye nor Mitchell has shown the ability to do. Okoye’s only utility appears to be as a third-down under in a 4-3. He can’t play off of blocks, he doesn’t have the strength to hold his position against down-blocks and CERTAINLY not as a nose.
The advantage of a one-gap nose means that you’re not hamstrung in finding a 350 pound man to play the lynchpin of your defense, but it doesn’t mean you get to run the ZBS-equivalent of a defensive line by staffing it with small, weak players, either.
Re: small, weak
Okoye is not small, given that he’s bigger than Ratliff.
And, yes, Wade’s scheme is get up the field first, then get to the ball, similar to Jim Johnson’s. Penetrate, then finish.
As for the rest of your stuff, that’s just silly. Amobi was consistently solid all season and was getting penetration despite what he was being asked to do. Beside, no one whose “only utility appears to be as a third-down under in a 4-3” is going to lead the defensive line in tackles when he thrust into a starting role.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
I don't have a problem with his penetration
And the lack of gap discipline could be blamed on Bush’s defense for all we know.., but from how they played this past season the only DT on the current roster i’d feel comfortable with at NT right off the bat is Cody…
It’s true Phillips’ line would focus more on petration than the typical 3-4 defense more than likely, but they do teach gap discipline in pretty much any defense to some degree and so far we haven’t seen much of it from Okoye whether it was due to coaching, the defensive “system”, or what… Cody, on the other hand, has been very solid against the run in Houston so i’d be more comfortable bringing him back to start off with until Okoye shows what he’s capable of at NT.
Also
I think what he was trying to say was that given that this defense leaves the middle of the field open to some extent on pretty much every play, it’s vital to maintain gap discipline up front whether you’re penetrating or not… Which i’d say is correct, or else Phillips would be known for coaching the defense that gives up 8 yards per carry against the rush….
No. It's not. No 3-4 scheme, one-gap or not, let's the o-line get to the linebackers.
And Amobi Okoye is not a good football player. He’s only “bigger than Jay Ratliff” in that he’s 2 or 3 inches shorter while being possibly 10 to 15 pounds lighter (trust me, his nfl.com listed weight is a gross over-estimate). Okoye has no place in a 3-4, especially not in the middle. And he’s too weak, to boot.
You say he's not a good player, yet despite being asked to play the wrong role:
He was second in the team in hurries among D-linemen IIRC (correct me if I’m wrong, Rivers)
He got consistent penetration all year, and actually got better as the year went along.
He was the only DT on the team with more than one sack, and his total (3) was comparable to Antonio Smith’s (4).
You say he’s “possibly 10 to 15 pounds lighter” than Jay Ratliff; their own teams say otherwise. Okoye also weighed more coming out of college than did Ratliff, despite the latter being 4 years older than the former on their respective draft days.
Also, keeping in mind that Ratliff is two inches taller, compare:


Okoye sure doesn’t look appreciably smaller. He definitely doesn’t look smaller to the extent that one would say that Ratliff is big enough to play in Phillips’ scheme but Okoye is not.
As for strength, you say he’s too weak, yet:
He put up 33 reps at his pro day, and every scouting report listed strength at the point of attack as one of his pluses. That makes sense, considering he had the highest bench press (475) on the Louisville team that year.
For comparison, Ratliff put up 22 at his pro day. While they wound up being wrong, ESPN wrote about Ratliff pre-draft: “He also lacks the size and strength to play a consistent role at DT in the NFL.”
My point is not to say that Amobi is better than Ratliff. He’s not. It’s to point out that you’ve presented roughly zero evidence to support what you’re saying, and all available evidence disagrees with your analysis of Amobi.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
Wrong.
Amobi weighed roughly 305-310 going into last season. He admitted to dropping between 10 and 20 pounds during the offseason to get back to his rookie weight which was around 290. That’s 15 pounds lighter than Jay Ratliff.
I don’t need to present evidence that Amobi Okoye is a good defensive lineman: the burden of proof lies on you. He’s weak against the run, isn’t effective against the pass, and is too small and too light to play nose in any scheme. He’s a light under tackle in a 4-3 scheme. Your assertions to the contrary don’t change the truth and simply further highlight the fact that you haven’t watched him. At any given time, Okoye was our worst defensive lineman.
Burden of proof?
You understand how that works, right? Once I present evidence - which I did - then you have to present something aside from bald assertions to counter it. You haven’t. This is where I would win on directed verdict if such things were even remotely applicable to an internet argument.
Wait…“At any given time, Okoye was our worst defensive lineman.” AH! I get it now!

"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 5, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I've got too much charting to go to say for certain
But he’s got a ways to catch up to both Smith and Williams.
Which isn’t to take away from how he played last year, which I am closer to you on then I am Tim.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | SB Nation Houston | Battle Red Blog
As for scheme...
You’re still wrong. It’s not that Phillips’ scheme “let’s [sic] the o-line get to the linebackers;” it’s that Phillips’ scheme forces the offensive line to read the blitz and deal with the both the overload on the weakside and the uncertainty of the d-line getting upfield at the snap, which slows them from trying to reach the second level.
Besides, if I am sending at least one and as many as three LBs on the blitz, I’m not overly concerned if you get a guard to block one of my ILBs.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
Tim Bulman sucks ass.
And not in that good way that you can get for $20 at a truck stop. Mitchell is prototype size for a Wade Phillips DE, too.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
Welcome in, Tim!
Feel free to drop by anytime.
"I love the mindset that factors in the ballistic value of foodstuffs." ~ DilloTex
And you base this on absolutely nothing?
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
Grittiness
and motor.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Is he white?
I don’t see color. Just scrappiness.
Frank Bush delenda est
by JimboTexan on Jan 4, 2011 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Gritty and Scrappy
Are words reserved to describe white players -
didn’t you know that?
I am totally optimistic about the Texans new season - at least until the first of the 4 or 2 (if any) preseason games
by Barryfromtexas on Jan 4, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions
I think the word you're looking for is
bitch.
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
by Jordann on Jan 4, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
What ^he said
I am totally optimistic about the Texans new season - at least until the first of the 4 or 2 (if any) preseason games
by Barryfromtexas on Jan 5, 2011 9:56 AM CST up reply actions
or punching bag
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by The Night Owl on Jan 5, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
^This... rec'd
"the laws of physics are immutable and shit" - tehGrindCrusher
"Because this is a blog and I’m an argumentative bastard." - tehGrindCrusher
Re: Bulman
I like the guy too. I think he can be a rotation piece on the DL.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Jan 4, 2011 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
Fucking epic post, Matt!
But you forgot one thing..
You didn’t list Zac Diles on there anywhere…
Rec’d post & congrats on Rich getting the boot at Michigan.
Aw, man!
I left out the section entitled, “Guys Who Should Be Shot”
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
I'm honestly much more concerned about personnel than scheme at this point
I would be upset if we switched to something that asked Mario, Smith, and Okoye to play a 2 gap style. Mario could do it, but it would waste his talent. Mario as a traditional 3-4 OLB wouldn’t work either. Mario as a 3-4 OLB in name who basically plays as a fourth lineman is fine with me.
LB is going to be an issue either way. I don’t think Sharpton did enough to prove he can be locked in as a starter. Demeco might never be the same, and until he has proven he is back we have to plan like he will not be here (I call it the lessons of Dominick whatshisname). Even if he is back I would be concerned about Demeco playing in this system as much as anyone else. He will have plenty of trash to fight through and that is not his strong suit. He’s best when he can read the play and flow to the ball…not trying to stack and shed a gaurd. I also think we need a back up plan for Barwin. I’m much more hopeful with his injury….but you never know. Adibi=terrible. Diles=terrible. Bentley=OK as depth but probably due for his Eugene wilsonesque fall from decent/savvy veteran to huge ball of suck. So counting Mario as one, I only see two LB’s (Cushing)on the roster I’m comfortable with on the roster. Sharpton is a maybe. Even if we don’t move to a 3-4 I think LB is going to be a big need this off season…and it would be nice to find one who can cover a little.
We have to get a veteran corner as a steadying influence at the least, and we need 2 new safeties with one of them being an honest to goodness FS. Nolan can be the primary back up. We also have to find someone whether it is a S or LB who can at least slow down RB’s and TE in the passing game.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
WILL NOT WORK
The most important thing in a Wade Phillips defense, even if you have Demarcus Ware and Anthony Spencer/Greg Ellis, is that you have CORNERS who can cover. It relies on the corners being able to hold their ground until the relentless blitz gets there. Houston has neither
a) pass rushers
or
b) a decent corners.
In other words, Houston can’t run this scheme without 3 good drafts or a hell of a shopping spree. If it’s going to take that long, why not just rebuild the defense you already have pieces for?
If they played that bad in their natural positions, I’d hate to see what those scrubs do when you plug them into a 3-4. Just saying …
by LukeIAmYourHuman on Jan 4, 2011 2:43 PM CST reply actions
Quin
is more adept at man than zone. Kareem Jackson is a rookie who should get better. This draft is deep enough in corners that we could snag someone like Ras-I Dowling in the second if the cards fell right.
As for not having pass rushers, that’s just wrong.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Disagree
Mario and Disrupticon are very much above average in terms of rushing the passer. Anderson was also, in my non-expert view, a nice surprise and serviceable. The DT’s? Meh. But moving to a 3-4 takes one of our poor DT’s off the field and replaces them with, hopefully, someone better. It ain’t Mario’s fault the secondary could not cover Bea Aurthur.
Jamison was very good late, as well
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
Can you please provide a link to this event?
I mean, look at my interaction with Matt Stevens’ ex-wife.
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
you have to remember that one Shake
It even made ME think he went to far…for a second anyway.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
C'mon...
she told me I was going to hell for everything I’d written about Matt, when “everything” was three references, only one of which made the slightest bit of fun at his being wheelchair-bound. She’s just touchy because she feels bad for dumping him AFTER he was paralyzed.
I’m digging for it, though, because it makes me laugh.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
I said "just for a second"
Then I went back to laughing.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
And then that MattIsAFag troll showed up
Because he was offended on her behalf or something. And he tried to piss off everyone at DGDB&D but then realized that it didn’t work and ended up admitting it was a fun blog. Distant, but good, memories.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
The comment section there
was a lot like Lord of the Flies.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 5, 2011 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
It was awesome.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
Truth
Again…..link?
Also MDC, do you have any idea what it was this weekend that reminded you of this event???
If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?
It was impressive hating on both sides of the argument
and it was hilarious and morally probably very wrong but who knows how people define “morals” anyway these days. I mean VY still has hetero fans even though his defining moment was gay shirtless night clubbing it up with All Pro Guard Casey Studdard.
I do like Moore
But quinton Carter should be second on that list. I’ve seen every snap of his and he is a true ball hawk and can hit. Also stays healthy. Might not be as fast as the other two, but he could run a 4.48 or so
by AllenOU on Jan 4, 2011 2:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
You didn't address the biggest problem! We still have Kubiak.
If Wade comes in and his 3-4 works and upgrades our D to above average we still have Kubiak. With Kubes conservative nature, a decent D and a running game, we will be looking at more close games and relying on Kubes’ game magagment skills more often. I don’t like our chances against good teams in that scenario.
Let’s face it. Kubes only opened up when we were down and desparate late in the game. If we had a lead it was throttle back and 3 and out.
The world revolves around me! Especially when I'm flat out on the barroom floor.
I think the theory is
we should be looking at LESS close games next year.
Our 31st ranked defense provided lots of close games (most in the league, I would bet) because our 2nd ranked offense can hang with most teams.
"I'm trying to get a feel for Booty" - GK
by texanphil on Jan 4, 2011 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Kubiak isn't even in the top 5 of the problem list.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 4, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Only if hes not in charge of the defense
if Kubiak lets Wade have full control of the defense and lets him bring in the players need for his 3-4 D hes not a problem at all.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
I was told he WAS the top 5
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
Jason Allen
is a possible candidate for FS. He has decent ball skills, and his greatest weakness is lack of speed, so playing deep could work for him. I know his tackling isn’t that great though….
I like this
To at least give him a chance here. He’s no CB, in my opinion.
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
Only if we cant find a real FS and GQ wont move.
then its fine with me.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Holy crap!
This team went from a team with no FS to a team with too many…
I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.
Too bad they're all playing CB
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
by The Night Owl on Jan 6, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
He was a projected FS out of college..
as far as I remember
Die hard Texan fan from the heart of Denmark!
I don't have a big problem with moving Allen (or Quinn) to FS just looking at them individually
I do have a problem with it when looking at the team as a whole. Allen was probably our most stable CB with Quinn right behind him. That’s not saying much, but if you leave them at CB and bring a good veteran I would be OK with that group as our CB’s. I suppose it would be OK because I do think Jackson will improve and we could depend on him as our nickel….but assuming Mario and Barwin at OLB then you have three starters penciled in playing brand new positions. That’s little disturbing to me no matter how similar their new roles would be to their old. That would likely all change depending on FA and the draft too though.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
best part about this move
is we have a fresh set of eyes from outside this staff looking at our defense and putting someone else at starting FS.
"I'm trying to get a feel for Booty" - GK
Anyone else find it interesting
That all the teams in the Cowher sweepstakes (Miami, New York, Texans) are all retaining their coaches? Do people think that Cowher won’t coach next year? I figured there would be lots of coaching changes. Maybe the owners are just preparing for no football next year
by LouisianaTexan on Jan 4, 2011 3:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions
It's the thought of total rebuild in a year with no CBA and possible lockout
The new coach wouldn’t have time to install a new system and build a roster with everything up in the air the way it is right now, so they’re going with the safer bet.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
The owners stand to lose a load of $
If there is no CBA
I am totally optimistic about the Texans new season - at least until the first of the 4 or 2 (if any) preseason games
by Barryfromtexas on Jan 4, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
How sure are you
That we were ever in the Cowher sweepstakes. Just because some tard in the media reported it doesn’t mean it was true.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 12:21 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They don't want to look like big money bags.
Cowher wants silly big jack. Then he is going to want to bring his guys in. Also big money.
Even assuming that the Texans had zero coaches under contract, the numbers to get Cowher would be ridiculous. And to pay that amount for a season that is likely going to be screwed up? I wouldn’t want to advise someone to do that, and I’m okay with Cowher.
If you are crying poor to the players, and trying to talk fiscal responsibility, how does it look when one of the 32 teams hires Cowher for a metric buttocks load of money? That would screw up what the owners want to accomplish with a new agreement.
And there’s been plenty of mega contract coaches that haven’t been able to get it done. Just because you get the biggest name, doesn’t mean it fixes everything. Signed, Mike Shanahan’s personal relation skills and dismantling an actually good 4-3 defense.
by StephS on Jan 5, 2011 10:00 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd, if only for "metric buttocks"
The rest of Steph’s stuff is, you know… pretty good too.
:)
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
Where does Mark Anderson fit in all this?
Maybe I skipped that part but he played well in relief of Mario and everybody else.
Anyways, although this post clarified a lot of things involving Wade Phillips’ scheme; it gave me more doubt that it’s going to work.
A secondary full of sure tacklers. WE NO HAVE THEM!
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
Mark
is a bit of an outlier. He’s too small for DE, but I don’t see him getting much in the way of reps at WOLB over Mario/Cushing/Barwin.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
We have 1.5
by my count, as Quin and Pollard each do it 3/4 of the time.
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
I've seen Quin miss a few sure tackles.
Same goes for Pollard. But I think it’s because he’s too damn aggressive sometimes. With a little more discipline maybe we can have two.
Now where can we find a decent DB coach?
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
Isn't Anderson a free agent?
I’ve just assumed he would use his performance with us to get a contract playing in a 4-3 somewhere else.
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
The way Kubiak talked about him
It sure sounded like they wanted to resign him.
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
Sure
but it’ll be a tough sell if we switch. I’m probably going to find myself trying and failing to bite my tongue a lot this off season if we bring in Wade. He has enough history that he should be given benefit of the doubt when/if he comes in.
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
Same goes for me.
That’s the only reason why I would be fine wit signing him. A proven track record of success in that position.
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Hey Jordann
Die!
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
MDC writes
I read.
You really should hold out for a raise this offseason. Tim can afford it.
"I'm trying to get a feel for Booty" - GK
You hear the man, Tim?!
I want a 200% raise!
"MDC: Droppin' knowledge like a librarian with Parkinson's." --Jonathan Loesche
by MDC on Jan 4, 2011 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
From a sixer of Coors Light to a case?
I think you deserve it. Feel free to cash your check at the Lone Spot Tailgate next year.
"I love the mindset that factors in the ballistic value of foodstuffs." ~ DilloTex
Looks pretty good, awesome analysis and explantions (REC'd)
I’d like to see them trade up (if necessary) to grab Nick Fairley or DaQuan Powers in the draft for DE or NT roll in Wade’s 3-4.
Then draft Rahim Moore in round 2t or grab Champ Bailey for FS.
Uncomfortably numb......thanks to the Texans
channel 13 says it's official
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports&id=7879396
or it could be someone hitting the publish button too soon….
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
link fail
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/sports&id=7879396
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Sports Director Bob Allen spoke with Phillips by phone earlier today and confirmed the hiring. The official announcement could come as early as tomorrow.
More details coming…
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Want some help there big guy?
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
bite me
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
I'm gonna need a shitload more beer
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 4, 2011 5:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
calling bs.
Papa, just get him one of those flashy light beer cap pins. Works like a chizzarm.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
This is the best writeup I've seen on the subject.
Thanks! For folks like me who never played football, and just like drinking bleach on the weekends, could someone define 3- vs. 5- technique for me? Thanks in advance
oh, and by the way, “it’s almost certainly going to be an upgrade in terms of defensive output”? Really? ANYTHING would be an upgrade. Hell, even keeping the Frank Bush patented soft zone would probably still be better next year if only due to luck, just because it would be nearly impossible to be any worse. haha. Wade, or whoever comes in is getting a dream job. I mean, I’m no mechanic, but even I can rebuild engines better than a cabbage, or a dead hyena. Bush is leaving some small shoes to fill. whoever steps in is going to look great, at least for the first year.
Here's a quickie breakdown
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2009/8/6/974324/dont-sweat-the-technique
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
by bigfatdrunk on Jan 4, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Awesome, Thanks
Heard that term thrown around a lot, and I never saw it defined. Appreciate the link
ya know...
Someone tipping me off to this post while I was still at work would have been real nice. Now I’m stuck reading this in pieces. And not wasting time when I would really like to waste time. Dammit.
hey dave
MDC posted a great write-up you should read at work.
Since I’m at work right now I figured I’d try to help out.
I am Sancho
by HoustonTransplant on Jan 5, 2011 3:16 AM CST up reply actions
Funny thing
If the NT in this system were a single photon, according to quantum theory he could go through both gaps simultaneously.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 12:23 AM CST reply actions 8 recs
but
We just wouldn’t be able to observe this act… uncertainty principle and all.
We’d just have to look up when Peyton is on the ground with his foot jutting out through his chest.
by grungedave on Jan 5, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Well we could observe it
but the mere act of observing it would alter the outcome. The cat is Dead and Alive.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
by papabear on Jan 5, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
However, it might not occur until observed.
Schroedinger’s Nose tackle!
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
What happens when an unstoppable force meets three defensive players? THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWqMqrZwTU
by TexansForever on Jan 5, 2011 12:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Wade Phillips must now draft a nose tackle named Schrodinger.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
A reference to Schroedingers Cat?
THIS BLOG HAS EVERYTHING!
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-
i'm blown away
one of us shoulda been hired before Frank Bush.
"I'm trying to get a feel for Booty" - GK
This is the first time physics has popped up over here
I can’t decide if that shows a much higher level of intellect than your average football fans….or just proves we are a bunch of fucking losers.
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Why can't it be both?
A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot
Hell, let's take it further.
If Heisenberg’s Uncertainty Principle holds true, then in theory the NT could go straight through the offensive linemen themselves.
Physics is fun…and weird!
I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now help me find my pants!
by UprootedTexan on Jan 5, 2011 3:13 PM CST up reply actions
However, the process of us observing the occurrence would change everthing...
…so it is NOT certain that they would completely pass through the offensive linemen, thereby resulting in a “Fringe”-esque melding of humanity that would almost CERTAINLY draw a stiff fine from Roger Goodell.
I’m just sayin’.
"the laws of physics are immutable and shit"
- tehGrindCrusher
As long as our new NT can cause some spooky action at a distance I'm happy
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair
Great write up!
As for this
As you see, when a running back beats the initial wave of linemen and blitzing linebackers, he is pretty quickly into the open, with only the free safety and (possibly) the strong safety having much of a chance to catch him.
Not so much a scheme weakness on that run. FOUR guys had hands on him and a chance to tackle him. That was bad tackling as opposed to a scheme weakness IMO.
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
What happens when an unstoppable force meets three defensive players? THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpWqMqrZwTU
Don't you worry
We’re bad at tackling, too.
I'll eliminate you like I eliminate gluten from my diet.
www.battleredblog.com
by tehGrindCrusher on Jan 5, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions
From Beefy, with Love...
I’m very glad I ignored my first instinct to stop reading at the mention of Destiny’s Child, and damn you for making me decide, being that this is the first time I’ve been able to get on here from work in around a year.
I think anyone with half a football mind and the time to digest it, loves your positional and system breakdowns (specifically on defense, imo). Fantastic work again, sir.
I share your concerns about DeJesus, and that possibility really scares me. I also worry about Pollard’s effectiveness, given that he’s just so horrible in coverage (wasn’t Sensebaugh even a FS at UNC? So even he’s got some ability to cover, one would think), but you just have to love Pollard’s hitting and panache (yep, I did it) to keep him around, I suppose. The other thing I would be concerned with is Barwin’s ability to cover TE’s or RB’s should we play him at SOLB, meaning that he might be relegated to solely backing up Mario, and possibly playing some nickle DE, which I’m ok with, but it just sucks for a 2nd rounder. (although, I guess we’d be lucky if Ben Tate gives us THAT much now, as a 2nd rounder).
What I really like about Phillips, before he ever puts on his dumb looking headset, is that he’s coaching the Shrine game, and I like what comes out of our draft when we have coaches in those types of all star games. Just sayin.
Eff Jordann.
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
by beefy on Jan 6, 2011 11:04 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
welcome back(ish)
"The trouble with programmers is that you can never tell what a programmer is doing until it’s too late."
The wormhole remains for another day.
I should stick something in it to keep it propped open…
Bacon tastes good... Pork chops taste good.
A special mention?
Awww? How sweet!
Did you receive the package I sent you? You’re wearing the burnt orange sweater already huh? Post pics!
"Eff you mothereffer!"
-Bernard Pollard-

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