Kubiak Konundrum--Oakland Raiders Edition
Note From Tim: As always, these are JMay's thoughts. He sent them to me because he was having some formatting issues, so I'm just the conduit through which his analysis flows. Direct all your kudos in his direction.
First, I feel the need to put this out there: I am one of Kubiak and Schaub's greatest defenders. Yet, I thought this loss was absolutely on them, so to speak. Matt Schaub was so horrendous in his accuracy that I wonder if he had an undisclosed injury. Is that an excuse? Sure. Except, I don't actually think he had an injury but was just bad. I've never seen him that inaccurate. Despite his numbers, Schaub has been more inaccurate than I can ever remember this season, and this game was the ultimate example of that.
As for Kubiak, I think the game was everything the haters could have wanted (despite their protestations, I feel the Kubiak haters often would prefer a loss to give them ammo). The game started with a quick stop, drive for 7, and another quick stop. The Raiders didn't get a first down until almost the end of the half! The Texans were clearly a more talented team. The Raiders were a team on their heels, who had given up the worst rushing yard average in the league. However, not only did they minimize the Texans' rushing game but they did so while also finding a way to disrupt their passing.
The Raiders kept tipping balls, tipping balls, tipping balls all day long, and the Texans had no answer. Early, it often felt like Kubiak was feeling out the Raiders D, getting ready to strike when he found the weakness. But, he never did find it. Instead, the Raiders are the ones who got better as the game went deeper. Both Kubiak and Schaub let an inferior team beat them in a game they were controlling, and the team leaders must be accountable for that disparity.
So, after Sunday's game, I wasn't actually all that upset. I was strangely calm and assured my more cynical game watching buddy that we would still win 10-11 games this season and win the division but that I was no longer sure about contending for more than that. As the hours went by and the beers went down, that serenity turned into the anguished opening paragraphs above.
Upon further viewing, I have softened and have plenty of thoughts on the game which don't exactly line up with the sentiments I've been hearing from most agitated Texan folk. However, that is not why we're here, so look for me on Twitter @mayj6 for my counterculture narrative on the game itself tomorrow (yup, that's me with about 10 followers).
However, those thoughts are not the goal here, which is also why the drunken ramblings and venom above are crossed out. The goal here is to look at Kubiak without that emotion and judge his GAME MANAGEMENT decisions without bias rather than to serve as a referendum on his coaching overall. Why? If you're new, read here.
If we put down our pitchforks and let that half week of talk radio haze slowly dissipate as it turns its angry head towards next week's contest, we can look back safely where no one is longer looking and judge for ourselves with fresh eyes how Kubiak performed.
I think in that regard, you will find Kubiak did surprisingly well against the silver and black. Well, at least 50-50. Kubiakian mediocrity or a decent performance, you be the judge.
As always, the ranking system goes from 1-5. 1 for terrible; 2, mildly negative; 3 neutral; 4, mildly positive; and 5, tremendous.
2Q. 8:10 left. 4th and 6. Raiders 47 yard line. Texans lead 14-6.
Kubiak faced a decision to have Rackers try a 54-55 yarder or to punt. With the lead, he chose to play it safe and take the latter. Hartmann punted to a fair catch on the 13 yard line.
Honestly, I think Kubiak, and coaches in general, are too conservative when it comes to long field goals. I think Rackers and most kickers this day in age make 4 of 5 from 55 yards (anyone else notice Rackers's leg is clearly stronger this year, perhaps fully recovered from his Cardinals injury?). I just typed about 4 sentences trying to back up why I feel the kick is the better percentage play, but I confused myself by the third sentence.
Anyone out there hooked into the advanced statistical websites that knows about studies on 50+ yard kicks, perhaps with score taken into account? Damn, that was lazy of me not to look it up myself.
But, no matter--since we can't really judge whether the decision worked out without getting into extremely speculative alternative histories, I'm going to open this one up to our weekly poll. Vote below for whether you liked the call to punt. I'm voting for a 2, a mildly poor decision.
2Q. 1:09 left. Texans up 14-12. Houston 19 yard line.
The Texans got the ball with time to at least move down the field for a field goal. Kubiak chose to run the first two plays to eat a little of the clock and move out of the deep end of his side the field. Only after getting the first down did he decide to unleash a few passes, even getting a timeout along the way from the Raiders, who were clearly and more aggressively hoping to get the ball back for Janikowski's big leg.
Was this an example of Kubiak being too conservative? Because the Texans didn't complete any of their passes, to me the issue was moot, and I judge it a 3 for a neutral decision.
3Q. 2:20 left. 3rd and 8. Texans' 32 yard line. Down 15-14.
This is the big one. Schaub attempted a pass for a first down to Joel Dreessen, which was ruled incomplete. Dreessen came up yelling for Kubiak to throw the challenge flag. Upon replay, it looked like Dreesen controlled the ball against his thigh and the question was whether he kept control.
At the bar, I was yelling for Kubiak to challenge. And, despite hearing EVERY SINGLE account of Kubiak's challenge this week say it was a poor-to-terrible decision, I still found myself explaining why I think it was the right one to my fiancee while rewatching the game. I want to argue the case. I really, really do because I think it was worth the risk. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get into a scruffle in the comments about it. Just go on and try to tell me how important timeouts are.
But, for the sake of the Kubiak Konundrum scorecard, it's clear-cut. The challenge didn't work out and therefore gets a negative ruling. Mild for the fact that it was debatable and keeping the ball would have been so important.
4Q. 3:49 left. 4th and 9. 1 TO remaining. Texans down 25-17. Raiders 30 yard line.
For those who deem Kubiak as too conservative, I think this was definitely an aggressive call, albeit not wildly. The Texans could have kicked a 47 yard field goal, and with one timeout remaining, a three and out would have gotten them the ball back right around the two minute warning, perhaps with the two minute warning time stoppage still intact.
Instead, Kubiak went for it and Jacoby Jones was able to draw a PI call to keep the drive alive. Being that they kept the ball and only Lawrence Vickers displaying his hands of stone kept them from six points and the chance for a game-tying two point conversion, this decision can only go in the mildly positive category.
4Q. 3:01 left. 4th and 18. 1 TO left. Still down 25-17. Raiders' 23 yard line.
Faced with a similar decision, this time the yardage to go for the first down was just too much to chance. Kubiak had Rackers kick the 40 yard field goal, which he made.
The fact that the Texans did in fact get the ball back with enough time to do something, and did in fact move the ball to the six for the play that shall not be named, makes this another clear-cut case of a mildly positive decision, a 4. I think Kubiak made two very solid 4th down decisions late in the game, and I don't think they were slam dunks.
So, not the stuff of legends by any stretch but not a disaster. I would have graded him positive on the day if I didn't remember my self-created bias defense of (when at all possible) judging on results rather than preconceived notions or strategies, which made the challenge a negative.
Raiders game results:
2 for mildly negative: 1 play.
3 for neutral: 1 play
4 for mildly positive: 2 plays
TBD: 1 play
Season Totals (note--from now on I will update the most recent game into the season totals, withholding whichever play we're voting on):
Mildly negative: 3 plays
Neutral: 3 plays
Mildly Positive: 5 plays
159 comments
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Comments
Should Be Fixed Now
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
The First Three Paragraphs Are Supposed To Be Struck Through...
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
decent timmy...decent. rec'd
Im looking for divine and a lttle intervention
And birds dont fly without my permission
Im prolly in the sky, flyin with the fishes
Or maybe in the ocean, swimmin with the pigeons
See my world is different, like Dwayne Wayne
And if you want problem Bit#h, i want the same thang
Not Me
It’s JMay’s. I’m just his secretary.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
behind every good writer is a good secretary
Im looking for divine and a lttle intervention
And birds dont fly without my permission
Im prolly in the sky, flyin with the fishes
Or maybe in the ocean, swimmin with the pigeons
See my world is different, like Dwayne Wayne
And if you want problem Bit#h, i want the same thang
by F-BombTheJets on Oct 13, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
That or Dragon software
Let's all panic, slit our wrists , fire the coach, fire the quarterback BECAUSE OMG WE LOST A GAME!!!!!!1111!!!!111!!!!
by Barryfromtexas on Oct 14, 2011 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions
...humming "Muskrat Love"...
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." - George Santayana
We're drawing a strange picture
that somehow, is now engraved in my mind. If I was screenwriting a movie, I think we might have a great scene here….
I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.
Poll
I forgot to ask Tim to put in a poll, so people can just answer in the comments. The question of the week is:
Late in the second quarter, was Kubiak’s decision to punt instead of have Rackers attempt a 55 yard field goal:
1 — Typical Kubiakian conservative chickensh#%*!
2 — A difficult decision gone wrong
3 — I don’t know, I’m glad I don’t have to make these decisions
4 — A solid, calculated decision
5 — Brilliant!
2....hitmans been solid for the most part. pin them deep and make them put a long drive together against a d that had been playing pretty solid.
that being said, i’da kicked the dam field goal.
Im looking for divine and a lttle intervention
And birds dont fly without my permission
Im prolly in the sky, flyin with the fishes
Or maybe in the ocean, swimmin with the pigeons
See my world is different, like Dwayne Wayne
And if you want problem Bit#h, i want the same thang
by F-BombTheJets on Oct 13, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
1 - Rackers range and the defense was stout
I believe for those reasons he should have gone for the FG.
Points are points – they are worth the same all through the game. Get them when you can.
Let's all panic, slit our wrists , fire the coach, fire the quarterback BECAUSE OMG WE LOST A GAME!!!!!!1111!!!!111!!!!
by Barryfromtexas on Oct 13, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
4... Drunken J had already nailed TWO fifty plus yarders at that point.
Make ’em work for it unlike the other two that were gifted for a garbage 6 points.
Would have been a 5 had he gone for the FG and made it.
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 13, 2011 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
4 - If Rackers misses then...
Seabass can almost just kick a FG from where the Raiders get the ball – then we go into halftime losing by 1 instead of up by 2. Actually think this was a no-brainer.
4
Same reason that has already been given. If you miss the FG it’s automatic for their fat kicker. In a close game you don’t want to give them any freebies.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
1 - I trust Rackers a lot
"Walter is a quality 2nd receiver. Jacoby is so bad that the two of them together is less than just Walter by himself." -Toolshed1
by RocketsAstros on Oct 14, 2011 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions
ok..
there can be articles outlining jacoby jones failures celebrating in a cultist manner with pitchforks ready to drive him out of town- perhaps rightfully so- with everyone is in agreeance. But when someone mentions matt schaub failures, theyre tabbed “haters” ?
gtfo here.. NOONE is exempt from criticism it is sickening because there are a number of bloggers on this site whom are scared of ridicule if they mention matt schaub has a 5 oclock shadow..
dont line out the truth, so many ppl are so scarred from the david carr era, till they dare not even utter a thought of the possibility that schaub actually has bad romo flaws in his game..
im super excited to have a qb thats light years better than carr but I will not sheepishly turn blinders on the glaring, game changing mistakes that schaub has a knack for succumbing to..
with that said, let this website be about giving credit where its due, whether good or bad-no matter the player
ps kubiak step ya game up or give up the title
gone..
Houston errthang.. first off, get rid of pubes.. Rockets-Texans-Dynamo & Longhorn fan.. an Astros fan these days is an oxymoron
There are haters
There are those that criticized
There are those who blindly think he is great
There is a 45,000 62,000 comment post about teh Schaub so I won’t expound any more on that.
Let's all panic, slit our wrists , fire the coach, fire the quarterback BECAUSE OMG WE LOST A GAME!!!!!!1111!!!!111!!!!
by Barryfromtexas on Oct 13, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
The point of crossing out the negative thoughts
Was not to pull punches. It was that this Kubiak Koonundrum series isn’t about that and I didn’t want to get sidetracked. I left it in but crossed it out to emphasize that fact and the fact that I was attempting to get rid of the raw emotion that comes with a loss.
I, for one, still think Schaub had a really bad game and I am concerned about his lack of accuracy this season. I also think he can do some incredible things to put us in a position to comeback. He can also do some stupid things. That’s why he’s not a top 5 QB. He is what he is, though, and I’d rather have them than two thirds of the other guys out there. Look at the perceived 6-10 qbs. They have all had similar flops and criticisms this season.
by JMay on Oct 13, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
I agree JMay, nice article
I think the thing that is the hardest for every Texans fan to deal with is that oncoming sense of here we go again, every time we lose, have a bad play, make a bad decision etc. mainly because in our limited history we have not often times made the right call, the right play, or have that winning drive at the end to put us over the top. But I think that 2 people deserve most of the blame for this game and it’s Jacoby (although he was atrocious) or even Vickers (but catch the ball man geez) the truth is that yes the oline wasn’t stellar at anything all day and Arian seemed to be forcing some of his runs but as the QB and leader of the O Schaub needs to either make a catchable throw or throw it away but too often he forces balls into bad spots and Kubiak after 5 years as a head coach with 4 of them with Schaub needs to trust his qb to make audibles in the play call. So I agree with JMay Schaub and Kubiak deserve most of the blame. Really nice article man.
by Draco on Oct 13, 2011 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
This
I think the thing that is the hardest for every Texans fan to deal with is that oncoming sense of here we go again, every time we lose, have a bad play, make a bad decision etc. mainly because in our limited history we have not often times made the right call, the right play, or have that winning drive at the end to put us over the top.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Sorry but I strongly disagree.
I believe Schaub did about as good as he could have done based on the fact that our o-line was getting their asses handed to them the entire game. He still threw for a shitload of yards even when he was less than 50% completion percentage.
The Raiders front 7 played way way over their heads in this game and completely overmatched our o-line. Personally I think they fed off the emotion of the whole Al Davis thing. I’m not saying they played that well and won the game for Al Davis directly. I believe they did it for their coaches and more specifically, for the Raider’s head coach. He was the one who was extremely emotional and pumped because of the death of Al Davis and he was able to pass it on to his team, especially the defense.
7 tipped balls and Matt Schaub getting pressured and harassed the entire game. I don’t care how good a quarterback you are, when you face the pressure Schaub did in this game, you are not going to be able to do a lot and he still had a decent game yardage-wise. Yes, he made some bonehead mistakes as well as the rest of the offense at times (especially Vickers! ugggh!) but that’s going to happen to every team in every game. The point is to MINIMIZE those kinds of mistakes and our offense just couldn’t do that enough to win this game.
I’m not concerned other than the fact that losing Mario for the season hurts. He was on pace for 16+ sacks this year and I think if he stayed healthy he could have hit 20+. Anyway, I’ve got the Texans beating the Ravens this week, 24-14. I also think the Raiders will lose to the Browns at home because they just used up all of their extra emotion against us and they will come out flat in a let-down game.
by Mikus318 on Oct 14, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
me as well
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 14, 2011 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions
some good points
pressure obviously was a bitch. However, I still think there were so many throws where Schaub had the receiver and just missed him. But, the blast Schaub section was crossed out. I felt he played one of his worst games in awhile, but still made some amazing plays to put us in position to win when he wasn’t at his best. Maybe that says more.
Thanks for the recs all.
And I agree that Schaub didn’t have a great day but I still put most of this blame on the o-line. When was the last time we saw our o-line, often called elite even by the national media, pushed back on every single play? It just doesn’t happen. The Raiders were so pumped it was ridiculous. If I was a conspiracy theorist I would have to say the Texans tanked the game on purpose so that the Raiders would win and honor Al Davis! Ok I don’t really think that. Anyway, Schaub was pressured so much all game long that even when he had passing lanes open he was afraid of the ball getting tipped or felt he had to rush his throws. Again, this was due to the o-line being beaten.
Go Texans and when we beat the Ravens, which I honestly think we will, there will be a lot less pessimism in this city.
One other point about this season...
that makes me feel better about the Texans this year. A lot of people have been using the fact that last year we were also 3-2 and ended up 6-10 as a reason why this year’s Texans are just the same old ball of crap that they have been. I answer this by pointing out the 2 losses each year. This year we lost to the Saints by 7 and still had a chance at the end of the game to force overtime. The Saints are a superbowl caliber team by any fan’s definition. Then we lose to the Raiders, an emotionally high team, by 5 and had a chance to win on the last play of the game, despite how crappy our o-line and offense (as a result) played. Last year those 2 losses were to the Cowgirls and the Giants, both of whom smoked us and we were completely out of those games by the 3rd quarter, if not earlier. Even the wins last year weren’t all that impressive. Consider the overtime win against Washington where we barely pulled it out at the end. How did Washington finish last year? Not well. Any way I look at this team we are miles ahead of last year’s team and I still see us going 12-4, 11-5 at the worst, if we can stop all of the injuries to our most key players.
by Mikus318 on Oct 15, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
for the bleechers
well done
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 15, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Credit Where its due
IMO the vast majority of people on this site including the biggest Schaub defenders will admit he did not play well against the Raiders. I think the biggest difference comes from how bad you felt he played.
I believe he played poorly but not abysmal as some people seem to believe. As has been well documented, Jacoby did not finish his routes leading to a 1 for 11 catch to target ratio. This is not all on Schaub. Also, the 7 batted balls were mostly due to Wade Smith having his worst game as a Houston Texan. If you take out those 18 passes, he is 23/36 for just over 63%.
Obviously you can’t just discount all of those factors and say Schaub had a good day because he clearly didn’t. I just didn’t feel he was as much to blame as Jacoby, Wade Smith or Jason Allen though he was most likely next in line.
I really felt like he hasn't played well all season
He just does not look like an elite quarterback. The throwing motion is too slow and the ball velocity is very lacking.
I Agree
I am not sure he has ever looked “elite” to me. I would leave that area for Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. At his best (2009) he appeared to be a small step behind them. He has alsways struck me as a very streaky quarterback. He plays best in situations where he can throw 15 times in a row and get in a ryhthym. If you break that, he drops down to simply good in my eyes.
I think he can get back to broderline great play if he stops “aiming” the short and intermediate balls. I don’t have evidence to back this up but it seems that is what he is doing. However, the deep ball like the deep ball down the middle to Walter has been spot on. I don’t remember Schaub ever having the accuracy he has displayed so far on that. Who knows, he may even throw a fade next!
by CoogmanSam on Oct 13, 2011 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree on the aiming short throws
He is very inaccurate on the short routes so far this year.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
very good points, man
I’ve never considered him “elite” either. Those types of QB’s are very hard to come by. I do however think he’s a good to very good QB that needs the rest of his team to be good also.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
I have read somewhere
That matt schaub didn’t practice because of something to do with his right shoulder. Maybe he injured it during the game and his passing suffered? Just a theory
by fgp on Oct 13, 2011 4:59 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I just find it interesting
That last year his deep ball was off – this year it has been spot on.
Let's all panic, slit our wrists , fire the coach, fire the quarterback BECAUSE OMG WE LOST A GAME!!!!!!1111!!!!111!!!!
by Barryfromtexas on Oct 13, 2011 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
but he can't throw the damn short ones on target, always falling short or behind the receiver.
The one to VIckers, while completely catchable, also could have been better placed. It was behind Vicker.
It hit him right in the hands
I’m not sure how much better placed you can get it unless, like someone else suggested to me, he stick it in his face mask.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
I have to give a 1 for the challenge.
Kubiak doesn’t seem to realize challenging isn’t about whether the call made on the field was right or not, it is about whether the replay can show enough evidence to overturn it. Even seeing the replay on the jumbotron from the stands, I knew if he challenged it he wasn’t going to win it. Considering we were down at the time that timeout should have been saved.
If we had that timeout for the last play, perhaps we could have tried a run first and take a timeout if it didn’t work.
great point.
"my momma was the Mike Vick of ass whuppin. side arm delivery, no wasted motion.. and very mobile." - @doobieman21
youtube/chrisdogan
We had 7 seconds
Very rarely can you execute a run play and squeeze a timeout in there too.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Weren't we out of timeouts
I’m not sure why we spike the ball otherwise.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 14, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes
What he’s saying is that if we had the extra timeout that we lost for the challenge, we may have tried a run play and then used the timeout to stop the clock. But a run play typically takes longer than 7 seconds.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Oh I missed that this was in the challenge thread.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 14, 2011 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Timeout
If you have the extra timeout you call it before spiking the ball and have about 20 seconds. I would estimate 10-15 seconds at lease went off the clock getting everyone to the line, set and spiking the ball. 20 seconds gives you time to run the ball and if you don’t make it, spike for one last play on 3rd down. Or you have 3-4 pass attempts if there isn’t a sack.
When that completion to Dreesen was made...
there was exactly 20 seconds left on the clock. It took us 13 seconds to get set and spike the ball so, yes, we could really have used that extra timeout.
My thoughts on the challenge
Okay, here are my thoughts. You twisted my little finger. I have an nkling this thread is already done, but I’ll post for posterity:
Dreesen absolutely had control the last time we saw the ball—against his thigh. As the announcer said, the ball only needs to be controlled. It’s allowed to touch ground if that control is maintained. Dreesen had as much control as Tyree in the helmet catch. Would that have been good if ball had touched ground?
Sure.
Looks to me in the very first angle that his shoe might have been under the ball. Or from another angle, even his lap. In another angle, looks like the ground. But, IT DOESN’T MATTER.
What does matter is that the IF the replay shows incontrovertible evidence the ball was controlled and that he maintained that control. Once he had the ball against his leg, I absolutely think the video shows him to be in control. There’s a CHANCE that one of the angles shows his arm move a little behind his leg as he goes down to bring that “incontrovertible” term into play. But, it doesn’t show the ball move. I know there doesn’t have to be evidence of him losing control, just enough conjecture that he might have. But . . .
I think there’s a 5% chance Dreesen didn’t catch the ball. And while people will yell and howl and say that means there wasn’t incontrovertible evidence and Kubiak was stupid to throw the flag, I have absolutely, positively seen officials on multiple occasions overturn calls on what seemed to be less proof or a a shadier interpretation of the rule. And isn’t that what we’re really judging? Whether there’s a CHANCE that official might throw the flag and how big that chance is.
Finally, the above part of the equation doesn’t even take into account risk/reward. I’m tired of hearing people talk about time outs like they are gold. They are tools to be used. Preferably, they will be saved. But, we applauded in previous weeks when Kubiak used a time out to get Tate back in the game rather than run OBGYN on a crucial 3rd and 1. Because POSSESSION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN A TIME OUT. Isn’t the importance of possession what our zany friends who say to go for it more on fourth argue so vehemently? Possession is too important to give up if there’s a chance to keep it, especially when you need that damned ball so badly.
I really thought Dreesen had the ball. Though it was debatable, I thought there was also a chance the refs would overturn it. Therefore, considering the time and game situation and value of a possession vs a time out, I thought it was an obvious play to challenge.
I think everyone doesn't see
how important the batted balls were. Had those passes gone for completions, Schaub, Arian, and Kubiak keep rolling and no one is judging at all this week. We sip our glasses of Johnnie Blue while signing his praises while saying how much we can dominate the Ravens this weekend.
We got beat at the point ALL DAY LONG by some really good defensive linmen. While it may have been a comedy of errors (Jakespeare being the funniest among them), that was the single biggest reason the Texans lost. Trench warfare is never something that should be overshadowed.
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
Who should take the blame for batted balls? At 6'5" it shouldn't happen so much for Schaub. I'm placing blame on his slow windup/release.
He did.
On the double move pass he tried to throw to Jacoby but it got batted down. Kinda hard to pump fake when the D-line is on top of you the majority of the time.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
6'6 defensive linemen with ridiculous reach
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 13, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
plus short routes that require a lower pass
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 13, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Henderson is 6'7"
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 13, 2011 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Haha
I was watching the ravens press conference and Ed Reed said about us that we never quit. Kind of funny considering our putrid second half stats this year.
by TheDream34 on Oct 13, 2011 6:47 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
he knows the difference
between quitting and sucking
Probably
He’s refering to the previous games we’ve played against the Ravens. Seems like every time we play them, it’s a very close game that we end up losing, but we still play them very hard.
Maybe he's thinking about
you know, that game we played against them. In which we were down 15 in the fourth and had drives of 92 and 98 to tie, with a two point conversion (Jacoby was huge in the last drive).
I still dont think enough emphasis is being put on the fact that we only got one play outta that last 7 secs
Technically its on Gary for not making it CRYSTAL clear but Schaub should have known this:
The first play should have been cut and dry- quick drop- and designed to get one man open quickly for what would have to be a definite TD (slant)- ZERO thinking involved besides whether or not he was open immediately and if he is deliver it and if hes not you throw it into the ground at his feet stopping the clock again.
THEN you have another play designed to get Schaub outta the pocket and extend the play.
MAJOR points deducted in my book for that call.
"////let it pan out before you kick da plan out\\\\"
-mitmil22
by theSpaceCityKid on Oct 13, 2011 7:25 PM CDT reply actions
Agreedish.
But if you really have to explain something like that to your quarterback, then he’s either dumber than Vince Young, or completely loses his football IQ the moment there’s any sort of pressure.
Water under the bridge, of course. That game is going to haunt me, but I’ll take solace in this prediction: the Texans will not lose another home game this season. Huzzah!
That is what worries me about teh Schaub
completely loses his football IQ the moment there’s any sort of pressure.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
this is his biggest fault
I hate seeing him flushed out of the pocket, because I know its a 90% chance that its going to be an incompletion.
I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.
Except when he does something like this instead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcdUg-DYi2E&feature=related
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
That video
just makes me more disappointed with Jacoby on the last play of the game.
by Tailgate Andy on Oct 14, 2011 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions
What a nice move to shed the first double team.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 14, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
congrats
on finding the 10%.
I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.
That video
Makes me miss Gus Johnson all that much more. I cheered while watching a replay. That’s how you know a great announcer. F*** CBS!
I’m sure you guys feel the same way especially with craptastic Deerdorf & Gumble.
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 14, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Great Point
Made by my buddy today at lunch. I have a feeling Kubiak assumed Schaub knew that. Kubiak even said in the presser it was designed to go quickly to the right. But, he she should be YELLING at Schaub to make sure it happens (unless, he’s, you know, Brady or Manning).
I’m having a tough time deciding if this is a game managing failure. Actually, while writing that, I decided.
I will add it s a negative 2. Mild but borderline terrible. Only mild because I, like Kubiak, can’t believe Schaub didn’t realize that. Chime up if you think it’s a 1 for horrendous.
Could you do without a 3rd and a 5th?
The Broncos are exploring the possibility of trading Pro Bowl wide receiver Brandon Lloyd as Tuesday’s NFL deadline approaches, The Denver Post reported Thursday.
The newspaper, citing three league sources, said three or four teams are believed to be interested in Lloyd and that the Broncos are seeking a third- to fifth-round draft pick in return in talks. The Carolina Panthers and Tennessee Titans reportedly are among the interested teams.
Several factors have prompted the trade possibility, according to the sources, but chief among them is that Lloyd will be a free agent after the season and he and the Broncos aren’t believed to be close to a deal.
Follow me on twitter: @Super_Stud2100
I doubt they make that trade.
Considering Andre is probably a week away from playing and Ben Tate and Derrick Ward have both practiced this week so our running game may be at full strength for the first time all year.
That and what Kubiak said
(on if it’s unfair for WR Jacoby Jones to get so much grief this week) "It’s part of football. We all get a little grief every now and then. Like I told you, he ran some damn good routes where if the ball didn’t get tipped or hit, he would’ve came away from the game with five or six catches for another 70, 80 yards. He beat a guy on a double move slant route that had a chance for an 80-yard touchdown. Nobody knows, the ball got tipped, but that’s part of football. There were times he could’ve run better routes too, but I got a lot of confidence in him and I need him to come back this week and play big."
I don’t see the Texans making that trade. Which is pretty expensive for a guy who’d only play in 11 games and will want a big contract regardless at the end of the year so I’d rather they save that 3rd rounder for a potentially impact future Texan.
If Andre was out much longer or for say the season then yes that would be a move they should make. Even if the “one year wonder” risk of Lloyd would make me think long and hard about it.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
I think its a 3rd and a 5th
I can’t remember the last time we got any contributions out of a 5th rounder and Lloyd is certainly worth a 3rd.. I’d do it.
Hmm re-reading that
it says a 3rd to a 5th. I’d be all over that if I were Rick Smith. We could use the help (and he could use the job…)
Is it worth as high as a third
if he is gone after the season is over?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 13, 2011 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Is his contract up?
In that case, no. But a 5th? I’d do it.
I just looked up our draft history, the only person we’re getting anything out of from a 5th round pick is Casey. Kubiak era 5th round picks doing nothing for us include: Shiloh Keo, Frank Okam, Brandon Frye.
From above
Several factors have prompted the trade possibility, according to the sources, but chief among them is that Lloyd will be a free agent after the season and he and the Broncos aren’t believed to be close to a deal.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 13, 2011 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not really familiar with the issues
I am just concerned about spending a third round pick on someone we may not be able to keep if he works out (as opposed to someone who we could keep but choose not to since he didn’t work out. That’s just a risk with any player move).
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 14, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
He's over 30 years old
Not worth a 3rd and 5th. If it was just the 5th I would do it. He’s in the last year of his contract, its not worth giving up 2 draft picks for 10 games of service.
I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.
id be willing...
to part with a 4th a 5th and jacoby..
PUT IT ALL BEHIND US!! LEARN, AND MOVE ON! LETS GET AT BALTIMORE NEXT WEEK AND COME OUT WITH A WIN!
by Carter Liles on Oct 14, 2011 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions
A 5th and JJ???
I would hurt myself trying to get to the phone to get that done….
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
They don't want another WR
thats why they are getting rid of Lloyd. They have a bunch of young guys behind him waiting to play.
I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.
I can't see the Colts trading Wayne within the divsion
At least not cheaply
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions
They may impose a cost
They may require whoever gets Wayne has to take Collins with him.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 14, 2011 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
We don't have enough vodka for Collins
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Oh I just read my own post
3rd TO a 5th. Either way this is a win now type of move move. And god forbid the Titans swing a deal and go on a run. I don’t think we get THAT trigger happy but it’s a low risk high reward type of trade. I would do it for a 4th or a 5th easy. A 3rd? I’m not to sure. But you could easily make a run with him and Dre and if he wants too much when it’s all said and done, let him go after the season.
Follow me on twitter: @Super_Stud2100
I'd say a 4th or 5th would be acceptable
Hell, a 4th or 5th with Jacoby thrown in as an extra would be nice
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 12:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Lloyd
If all it takes is something like a 3rd and 5th rounder, I don’t see why anybody wouldn’t want to snag Lloyd. Granted, he’s really only had the one monster year, but him and Andre could be a sick tandem for the next few years if all falls into place.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Oct 13, 2011 11:47 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
3rd rounder is way too much to give up for a guy you may not be able to keep.
Also a lot of ppl view him as a possible one-year wonder.
It obviously hinges on the Texans being able to retain him.
Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a good trade in hindsight. But that’s the risk you take.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Oct 14, 2011 12:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Get rid of Jacoby & pay Lloyd with that money, just add a few more years to the deal
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
One good season in a 9 year career. I’ll take D. Mason for a conditional pick over that any day.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
God I hope Tennessee doesn't get Lloyd
by TheDream34 on Oct 14, 2011 12:10 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Of course YOU do...
Picking up Lloyd is definitely a win now type of move. Something the Texans don’t typically do. With the Titans top receiver out, I could see them aggresively pursuing this.
The Rams would be looking at him as well
The Panthers make the most sense. I can see the Jets going after him for the hell of it.
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
We oughta go after him
Even if it’s only so the Tits don’t get him
by splanket on Oct 14, 2011 6:44 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The Troika of Johnson, Mason and Lloyd could:
1. Solve our reciever woes.
2. Open up yhe running game even more.
3. Recapitalize European banks.
4. End world hunger.
Go get’em says I!
"An open mind is like a fortress with it's gates unbarred and unguarded."
by TexansForever on Oct 14, 2011 6:48 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs
Aaaaannnnndddd
cure aids, cancer, and resurrect the dead. Zombies everywhere I tell ya!
Or that the Texans believe in the Mayan prophecy & they know this year is their only chance to win a Super Bowl before the end of the world
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions
Off topic
I’m going to be in Germany Sunday for the game…anyone know of a stream I could maybe watch the game on?
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
64 percent of all the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot
82.4 percent of people believe 'em whether they're accurate statistics or not
I don't know what you believe but I do know there's no doubt
I need another double shot of something 90 proof
I got too much to think about
The Rhine...
but that’s more of a river.
by CTacc on Oct 14, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
I nominate this for comment of the year.
by Nashmeister on Oct 14, 2011 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions
Well I have been in Denial about having to miss this game
SWIDT?
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
64 percent of all the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot
82.4 percent of people believe 'em whether they're accurate statistics or not
I don't know what you believe but I do know there's no doubt
I need another double shot of something 90 proof
I got too much to think about
by papabear on Oct 14, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
ISWYDT
/mercy rec
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli
"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson
"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock
Never try to baptize a cat.
sounds more like a pity rec to me
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
i'll take it anyway i can get it
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
64 percent of all the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot
82.4 percent of people believe 'em whether they're accurate statistics or not
I don't know what you believe but I do know there's no doubt
I need another double shot of something 90 proof
I got too much to think about
by papabear on Oct 14, 2011 12:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I will provide illegalities
&
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 14, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
ok... link fail
www.atdhenet.tv or .com… i don’t remember which
REDRUM, Peyton Manning... REDRUM
Why do we fall down? So, we can learn to pick ourselves up.
by BRBUSAFTexan on Oct 14, 2011 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions
grassyass
"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds
64 percent of all the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot
82.4 percent of people believe 'em whether they're accurate statistics or not
I don't know what you believe but I do know there's no doubt
I need another double shot of something 90 proof
I got too much to think about
by papabear on Oct 15, 2011 9:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hmmm Schefter does an article on trades that makes sense.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/10spot-11week6/nfl-five-sensible-trades-probably-made
Wonder if the Texans would be willing to part with a 2nd and 5th rounder for Bowe or a 2nd for Asante….
I'd make that deal for Asante
But probably for a 2012 4th round & a 2013 2nd round pick
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions
And I'd throw Kareem in on that deal as well
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd be okay with that deal as well
We could then resign David Anderson with the open spot
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Oct 14, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd give 'em Jacoby...
…if they’d come pick him up.
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." - George Santayana
Maybe just set him out on the curb...
…with a “Free” sign pinned to his t-shirt.
That usually works.
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim." - George Santayana
I would fucking love to have Bowe.
And I’m generally of the opinion that wide receivers aren’t all that important. He’s exactly what we need, though: a capable blocker and a good red-zone target.
If they’ve truly given up on Jacoby and are going to have to resort to drafting a receiver anyways, might as well spend those draft picks on a proven commodity. The contract situation is iffy, I suppose. But that can be solved.
by Nashmeister on Oct 14, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
i wouldn't give up a 2nd. That has been our best round in the drafts.
all our linebackers are 2nd rounders except cushjng
Bowe might be a better player than any of them, though.
And you’d get him in his prime.
If they think they can hammer out an extension, it would be a wise decision.
by Nashmeister on Oct 14, 2011 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Int.
So I’m a little confused on my ability to call/predict a Shaub interception before it happens. I can’t figure out if it’s obvious that Shaub gets nervous and I can sense when he is getting ready to throw a int or it’s the ghost of Texan past that tells me here comes doom and gloom.
by Sho 44 on Oct 14, 2011 11:38 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I've seen throws leave his hand in just the right spot and scenario
Where I was sure there was a pick coming. Only to have it hit the receiver perfectly. It just seems like it has to happen there.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Oct 14, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
I blame it on the phone
But more than likely it’s illiteracy
by Sho 44 on Oct 14, 2011 1:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
usually I can tell by the down and distance + how critical the situation is.
the Ravens game last year for instance, as soon as he dropped back in OT I immediately thought it was going to be a pick.

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