Does Foster's Fancy For Fumbling Forebode A Fruitless Future?
Last week, I wrote the following:
Ben Tate has four fumbles on the season in 154 touches, or one every 38.5 touches. Arian Foster has three fumbles in 284 touches, or one every 94.7 touches (and that includes the WTF fumble from Sunday -- otherwise it would be one every 142 touches). For everyone clamoring for Tate to take over for Foster because of his higher yards-per-carry stat, keep that in mind.
On Sunday, Arian Foster proceeded to fumble on the second play of the game, making me look like a jackass.
I don't even own him in Fantasy!
Then on Monday, I start seeing guys such as Paul Kuharsky talking about Foster's "sudden propensity to fumble."
All this after Foster was named to the USA Football All-Fundamental team for following blocks and ball security.
So what gives? Should Foster's new sponsor be Bananas Foster Butter (which sounds kind of gross)?
Anyone who's read any of my rants (and especially those very few who may have actually paid attention) should know by now that I'm generally not interested in talking averages or generic statistics. I want to know about variation and probabilities.
Note: Yes, I know I did it in the pre-jump quote, but that was a quick bulletized post as opposed to any actual analysis, so don't bother pointing that out.
Even though Foster's apparent "propensity to fumble" has not quite dominated headlines in the manner of, say, Tim Tebow not performing a miraculous comeback, I was intrigued by any mention of it because I recall that Foster had a bit of a reputation for putting the ball on the ground while in college at Tennessee. So, the first question I have is regarding his past. We need to know if the Texans have been lucky with Foster's ball security in the past year and a half or if they're just getting to an unlucky streak.
While at Tennessee, Foster definitely got some heat for his fumbles. He had some big fumbles late in some big games, and this reputation, deserved or not, may have been one of the reasons that he went undrafted. Thus, I decided to start by looking a little into his college career and came across this post, which essentially said that Foster didn't fumble at a particularly high rate, but that his fumbles were at very visible and very costly moments, thus preserving them in memory.
Well, that's good enough for me.
So the question, then is, "Has Foster suddenly developed a fumbling problem?"
Foster has had four fumbles in his last four games, so at first glance, it would appear so. If we ignore the non-fumble against Cincinnati, it's still three fumbles in four games. In his previous 24 games, Foster had three fumbles.
So for starters, let's look at Foster compared to some of the game's top running backs. I didn't have a strong criteria for selecting this list, except that in order to get a strong enough data set, I wanted to look at other top running backs who have had similar work loads since the start of 2010. Here's a summary of the data.
| Running Back | Fumbles | Touches | Fumble Rate |
| Arian Foster | 6 | 698 | 0.86% |
| LeSean McCoy | 3 | 592 | 0.51% |
| Adrian Peterson | 2 | 531 | 0.38% |
| Maurice Jones-Drew | 8 | 663 | 1.2% |
| Ray Rice | 2 | 685 | 0.29% |
| Michael Turner | 5 | 632 | 0.79% |
If we were to stop our analysis here, we would say that Ray Rice is the most reliable back and Maurice Jones-Drew is the least reliable.
But you, the knowledgeable BRB reader, are smart enough to spit on such analysis and say that drawing such a conclusion is meaningless unless we test for statistical significance.
So I have. For you.
As it turns out, and as I'm sure you're completely anti-shocked to see, there is no statistical difference between these players' fumble rates. MJD is a bit higher, but we cannot statistically say that he is in fact more likely to fumble than Ray Rice.
To put that another way, if Ray Rice had just one more fumble over his past 685 touches, he would be at 0.43% and in the middle of the pack. Two more and he's at 0.58%. I don't think that any of us would consider two more fumbles over 685 touches to be a cause for concern, so we similarly can't say that he would suddenly be worse than Adrian Peterson.
This is a major point in the discussion that is often overlooked. It would not at all surprise me to hear some commenter (most likely Dan Deirdorf) make mention of the fact that Rice has only fumbled twice in the past two years while MJD has fumbled eight times, with nary a comment on the fact that we're talking about over 600 touches.
On a side note, I did a quick check of Ben Tate's numbers against these guys and even though he has far fewer touches, and thus a higher standard deviation, he is significantly higher than all these guys except MJD, so my Tate concern continues.
We can now say that over the course of the past two years, even including the recent fumblitis, Foster is not fumbling at a rate that should really be cause for concern.
This leads us to the second question: Is Foster's recent increase in fumbles statistically significant?
Again, the answer is no.
If I compare the two data sets of the first 23 games in my data set and the last 4, I find that I have a p-value of 0.267 which means that there's essentially a 26% probability that this just happened by chance.
The interesting thing is that for both analyses, even if I add the Cincinnati non-fumble back into the data set, the results are still not significant.
I can hear you right now.
Gee, thanks, Vega. You just spent a whole post telling me that I can't draw any conclusions on anything.
Well, to be honest, that's one of the main purposes of statistics (and one that's nearly always ignored) -- to tell you when drawing conclusions is actually valid. In this case, Foster's recent fumbles don't seem to be indicative of anything actually going wrong, but are more likely just random chance and ultimately will be nothing more than a blip on the radar.
So when somebody says to you, "Man, I'm worried about Foster's recent fumbling problems," you can calmly and confidently point out to them that the recent fumbles are statistically insignificant when compared to other top running backs and to his career fumbling rate, so there should be little cause for concern going forward.
Then you can tell that person to suck it.
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Your Mathematical Sorcery Confuses My Feeble Brain
But I do enjoy reading it.
Now I’d like you to analyze the data concerning Steve Slaton’s fumbling as a Texan.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
Science hasn't yet produced a number large enough to measure that.
Perhaps a “Slatrillion”?
Slaton's fumbles are measured in TDs by the other team....
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Looks like total fumbles.
Thanks for the great stuff here.
Oh yeah another thing.
a p of .05 is the statistically significant cutoff for research (this is an arbitrary number, right?), but don’t you think a p of .26 is actually significant in the real world?
I mean there’s a 26% probability of chance, but a 74% probability that is wasn’t chance.
General statistics questions, not trying to be difficult or anything. I’ve always wondered these things, but wasn’t brave enough to ask a professor in a classroom of 300 people that hated stats (I loved it).
Well to get technical
when I say that there’s a 26% chance of it being just randomness, that’s not entirely accurate. It’s just the simplest way to say it without getting all technical.
The 0.05 p-value is the probability of having an alpha-error. This means that it’s the probability of saying that we’re wrong in making our conclusion.
Look at it this way: if I’m going around saying that Foster’s last few games are actually indicative of something being “different”, it doesn’t actually mean that there’s a 26% chance that there is a difference, but rather that there’s about a 26% chance that I’m full of shit. Subtle difference, yes, but a difference none the less. That’s too high of a number to say that definitively there’s something going on here, and that’s why the standard p-value of .05 is generally used.
Rec'd for the alliteration in the title.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli
"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson
"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock
Never try to baptize a cat.
It might have been better if it said,
“Football Fan Finds Foster’s Fumbling Forebodes Fruitless Future For Fantasy Freaks”
Also, I want to know why jkcheng122 and Tailgate Andy haven’t come forward to correct Vega’s bad grammar, misspelling “forebode.”
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
by Rip Jersey on Dec 20, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
All those F's
and not even one variation of “Fuck!”
Matt Schwab, Mary O' Williams, Adrian Foster, Jacoby Ford, Kevin Walters, and Daniel Owens are my favorite Texans!
by MeSoLongHorny on Dec 20, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
What is this fuckery?
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Dec 20, 2011 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
Uses of the word "Fuck".
http://justin.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the-word-fuck.html
Matt Schwab, Mary O' Williams, Adrian Foster, Jacoby Ford, Kevin Walters, and Daniel Owens are my favorite Texans!
by MeSoLongHorny on Dec 21, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
And there's this for you visual fuckers
http://www.nailmaster.ru/fuck.html
Matt Schwab, Mary O' Williams, Adrian Foster, Jacoby Ford, Kevin Walters, and Daniel Owens are my favorite Texans!
by MeSoLongHorny on Dec 21, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Forebode is spelled correctly.
I probably would have used foretell, but that’s just personal preference.
Forebode is both spelled correctly and used correctly.
by Tailgate Andy on Dec 20, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
It is now
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I think the timing of the fumbles is significant
As far as fan memories go.
Foster has had 2 early game fumbles – and those really stand out.
I am not overly concerned though, I think he is likely to have had his last fumble for the year, I probably can’t say that for Tate.
"The greatest danger in planning for tomorrow is using yesterdays logic."
Marc Kahlberg
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I think we will learn that the Bo$$man was right
by Barryfromtexas on Dec 20, 2011 12:56 PM CST reply actions
I love you. More than a friend.
Well, to be honest, that’s one of the main purposes of statistics (and one that’s nearly always ignored) — to tell you when drawing conclusions is actually valid.
Thank you. Thank you so very, very much.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Dec 20, 2011 12:58 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
You single handedly make my drunken arguments seem valid
and make me appear knowledgeable. And for that, I rec you sir.
"I said 'That's not my dad, that's a cell phone!' and I threw that cell phone TO THE GROUND"
These arguments single handedly make me feel drunk
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Dec 20, 2011 7:10 PM CST up reply actions
Damn You Vega
For writing an interesting article that is so long it takes a half hour to read at work.
Free Earl. Occupy Reliant
by NewJerseyTexansFan on Dec 20, 2011 1:56 PM CST reply actions
And Damn you Vega
For making me spit all over my screen trying to read the title!
Matt Schwab, Mary O' Williams, Adrian Foster, Jacoby Ford, Kevin Walters, and Daniel Owens are my favorite Texans!
by MeSoLongHorny on Dec 20, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
And Damn you Vega....
Well just cuz I wanna be part of the cool crowd
*Proud Packers shareholder*
With my last breath, I curse Zoidberg!
What? I always assumed these were your real names.
Like BFD’s name is actually bigfatdrunk in real life.
Well my last name is actually Vega
but that’s also her last name, so that’s where it would be weird.
If she's like my wife, you probably can't repeat what she does call you.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Dec 20, 2011 8:36 PM CST up reply actions
You ran stats to include the league's top runing backs
and forget to include Tim Tebow? I’d try not walking under dark clouds if I were you.
Over the last 4 games, his fumble rate has been 3.5%.
And that’s not including the non-fumble against Cincy, either.
Bottom line.
Tate and Foster have sucked from a consistency point since Schaub went down. Both over the last four games have fumbled at critical times that have put the QB and defense is horrible situations. Those two are supposed to be the heart of the offense without Schaub yet they’ve done about as much harm as good.
Time for those two to step and give the Yates some more help like OD has.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
two quick points
1. You were correct to not try to review the validity of Foster’s other fumbles. It would then have become necessary to review the validity of the the other RB’s fumbles as well. One could argue that, because of this, you should have included Foster’s “non-fumble”.
2. Shouldn’t the turnover differentials and records of the opposing team, against which Foster fumbled, be synthesized into the data?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
In response
1. I did mention the following: “The interesting thing is that for both analyses, even if I add the Cincinnati non-fumble back into the data set, the results are still not significant.” I went back and forth on this a lot. As I mentioned under the table, I have neither the means nor inclination to review all fumbles, so there’s definitely a chance that some are included that shouldn’t be (just like there may be fumbles that were not called). Still, knowing that there is one blatantly wrong data point, I felt it better to exclude it from the data set rather than include it just because the officials were retarded.
2. I’m not sure why you would want to include turnover differentials or records of opposing teams. I guess you could argue that certain teams are better at forcing fumbles than others, but that greatly expands the scope of this analysis. Furthermore, turnover differential also brings into play the performance of other offensive players and the defense, so I think that may muddle the data more than it can provide further insight.
Re: #1, I'm ok with that
Re: # 2: Yes, the other teams relative ability to force fumbles is what I was referring to. Some teams are proactive about forcing fumbles and their relative success at it would, in my opinion, affect the RB’s standard (or base measure) of ball security. However, I would think that it would be possible to assume that each year, a RB goes against the same number of good turnover generating teams. Therefore, a RB’s baseline could be established by averaging the number of turnovers per year, and anomalies can be pulled from the average. n’est-ce pas?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Dec 21, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
I definitely assumed that away in my analysis
but it might be an interesting study to see if generating fumbles is in fact a skill. It would be simple enough to calculate just by looking to see if there is a significant difference in forced fumbles.
I guess we could ultimately normalize the data in this analysis to the results of that analysis and see if it alters the conclusion.
I appreciate statistical analysis
but my practical knowledge stops at quality control issues in the laboratory. Is there a way to apply Westgard rules regarding each fumble? And what of investigating trends and shifts? Good article, Vega.
Romans 14:12
You could
and I did run an I-MR chart for Foster’s fumble rate. I found that the Jacksonville game is out of control for the I chart and the last two games are out for the MR.
What I actually ended up doing was to analyze the fumble rate per game (which also allows me to invoke the central limit theorem to assume normality).
My issue with the standard QC rules, though, is that the vast majority of your data points are zero which is also your lower bound. This results in an extremely low standard deviation and mean. As such, you will regularly trigger the rules that have multiple points below the mean, but that’s a good thing. It’s very rare to trigger the same rules above the mean.
Furthermore, any game with greater than 2 fumbles will pretty much fall outside of 3-sigma. If you trigger any of the other rules, then I think you’ll definitely
So, in my opinion, you’d have to be very selective as to which rules you would apply. The ones that were violated in my data set, I don’t think are indicative of a systemic problem.
by Vega on Dec 21, 2011 7:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the intelligent response
I had not considered the majority of zero data points. Also, you encouraged me to re-educate myself on I-MR charts. In your opinion, nevertheless, of what significance are trends in this instance? That is, if a running back rushes 400 times with no fumbles then begins fumbling every 20 or so rushes, is that significant?
Romans 14:12
You have to remember the purpose of the I-MR chart
and for that matter of all the Westgard rules.
The whole purpose is to raise a flag and say, “hey, you better take a closer look over here.”
At that point, you have to use your knowledge of the process or issue at hand to determine whether or not further action is necessary.
In our case, Foster’s game against Jacksonville would violate the 3-sigma rule, so it would flag us to look closer. That prompted me to do the comparison of games since then to the games prior to then and see if there’s a statistical difference. There was not, so I would argue (for now) that it’s just bad luck and move on.
If, however, as you mentioned, a back starts fumbling every 20 rushes or so (or if BattleRedHusker’s horrible scenario below were to play out), then my guess is that the comparison I did earlier would show a difference and we could conclude that something is wrong with Foster.
watch him fumble 2+ times on thursday
and you look like an ass for lying to all of your kind readers. jerk!
Thank God for football!
by BattleRedHusker on Dec 21, 2011 1:38 AM CST reply actions
Rec'd for
keeping my MBA-statistics class in the front of my mind. I have yet to be able to speak to anyone at work about p-values and standard deviations, let alone use them in my job. And I’m a budget weenie analyst!
Houston Texans fan, first and foremost.
College football teams: Army, Syracuse, Texas, Auburn.


























