Why OLB isn't THE priority

by JMay on Apr 8, 2011 2:47 AM CDT

Really, think that headline through again. Sure, people at least here agree we have other needs. NT, S, CB, SS, WR2, etc. But the way the national and local media talks is that OLB, in large part because of Wade's system, is the number one position we need.

I strongly disagree. I think it's in a coin flip crotch grab with all the others. It's perhaps as important but not more important than some of the others.

Mainly, because of CONNOR BARWIN. Think, if we draft no one. You could still move Cush outside and start Cush, Meco, Sharpton, Barwin. That's fairly strong, even if weak in depth. But, should we worry so much about depth, when we DON"T HAVE A STARTING CALIBER SAFETY! Or NT. Or a WR2. Or a CB who could . . . nevermind.

I still take BPA. I'm a big fan of picking Julio if Quinn's not there. See (by my want of Quinn), I would even like an OLB because I think it would make our LB corp sick. I just wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination reach for one.

Oh, unless that's over a DE who would be strictly a rotational player and not be able to start over someone (ie a LB over Darryl Sharpton)

Drunken rambling thoughts. I'm just saying OLB isn't worth reaching for. But, neither is CB, S, or NT (because of the talent in this draft). So, maybe OLB is just less of a reach than those. I guess what I'm saying is don't take a DE. Or reach for Amukamura.

Signed,

More confused before I wrote this post #pray for Quinn/Jones

PS I understand the lack of depth we would have if that were the starting linebacker team. And that there would be serious injury concerns. I would still want them to add a 3/4 round backer and at least one legit (above Danny Clark level replacement) LB in free agency to try to give some options.

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I actually like most of what you're saying.

But, please, put down the bleach and step off of that ledge.

Most Houstonians, hell most football fans nationally, were certain that VY and Bush were the only options worth taking at #1 overall in the 2006 draft. That misconception has been exposed over time… and, thankfully, we also ended up taking a better player; making good with that pick.

Andre fell into the Texans’ lap, only after the Lions drafted Charles Rogers. Which was higher on Casserly’s draft board at that time? I’d love to have been a fly on the wall in their war room.

The pundits, and their draft boards, should only be considered as a reference. Some players will prove to be underrated, some will prove to be overrated, and others will fall exactly where they should.

College and pro football are very different beasts, though both are filled with complexity. There’s almost always more than meets the eye.

by Cut Block on Apr 8, 2011 4:44 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

LB is the biggest need

because when we switched from 3 linebackers to starting 4, we don’t have enough of them. Barwin has never played LB before, Sharpton barely has experience, Demeco is coming back from a nasty injury, we don’t even have a starter for the other outside spot, right now its Anderson, also playing out of position. Thats way way too many question marks. Its our weakest area. Not only do we have no depth, but the potential starters are all question marks. NT, is only 1 guy, and CB while they sucked, its full of youth, I dunno if drafting yet more youth in the back end is a good idea. As far as safety its a real weak class, no one worth a first round pick. Everyone is talking OLB because there are more potential players available in the 11 spot than the other positions.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on Apr 8, 2011 7:49 AM CDT reply actions

What you're talking about is a SOLB or ILB

There ain’t any good ILBs till the late 1st round, and SOLBs available till the late 2nd/early 3rd round. Bruce Carter would be ideal for SOLB. Martez Wilson would be ideal for ILB. But at #11, it should be either Julio Jones or trade back, period

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 8, 2011 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions

I wasn't advocating a ILB in the first round

but a pass rushing OLB. ILBs are rarely worth a first rounder.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on Apr 8, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions

Patrick Willis is worth every first round pick

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 9, 2011 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions

and Willis was picked at #11

but I want Julio, and then use the rest of the Draft on D (and maybe a punter).

It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are due to get to the big dance...Go Texans!!!!!

by oiler-texan diehard on Apr 16, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions

After reading AJ today

OLB is a huge need.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on Apr 8, 2011 8:38 AM CDT reply actions

It's April, his ankle is about a month away from being fine

If it’s not 100% by August, then we should be worried

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 8, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions

I feel like we have on healthy starter at LB right now

Cushing. Barwin and Ryans are injured, the latter we shouldn’t count on at all.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on Apr 8, 2011 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions

Why oh WHY.....

did you have to link to that picture again? I get the willy’s every time I see that foot almost pointing backwards.

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on Apr 8, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions

It is. We're thin. Very thin.

But I believe our drunk friend (JMay) was considering our 1st Round options.

What are our needs for this new defense; listed in priority?

I’m thinking NT; CB; FS; SS; SOLB; WOLB; ILB; and probably another CB or two.

Ugh. Now I wish I was drunk.

by Cut Block on Apr 8, 2011 9:14 AM CDT reply actions

^ reply fail to bfd (saying OLB is a huge need)

by Cut Block on Apr 8, 2011 9:15 AM CDT up reply actions

For the defense

Any position not manned by Mario, Cushing, Smith, and Quin is a gaping need. Yeah, looks like you covered it above.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on Apr 8, 2011 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions

I do like Sharpton at ILB

As for Cushing, I’m willing to hold my tongue when considering him in this new defense, no matter where he ends up. Same goes for DeMeco. I hope we’re pleasantly surprised with those two.

Bernard Pollard, I’d actually like to see him return. Makes me daydream of Steve Atwater under Wade in Denver. Though, maybe that’s not such a healthy daydream once I consider that we’ll face Indy twice?

At DE, perhaps we’re looking at Mario, Antonio Smith, Earl Mitchell, and Shaun Cody. That should be more than enough IMO. I like that group.

At NT, re-signing Damione Lewis would be a quick fix, and then possibly Wade could make due and develop a late round or undrafted guy (it may be preferable to mine a NT late). And let’s not forget ol’ Shaun Cody to act as the emegency 3rd NT. Antonio, Cody, and perhaps Mitchell, for DT depth in the nickel.

That leaves Quin at CB or FS; KJax at nickel back; and Barwin as the pass rushing OLB.

Then hit the draft and FA for another LB (or two), the unnamed NT, and two or three DBs: at least one CB and one Safety minimum.

That starts looking somewhat solid, at least, for Wade’s first season here. Plus, it leaves us some room to add some offensive pieces somewhere in the draft. Possibly TEs. We need more TEs.

by Cut Block on Apr 8, 2011 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions

Truthfully, I wonder if Pollard could be able to play SOLB

That would be his best chance of coming back

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 8, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions

That would be nice if he could.

I think thye had enough of him already which sucks cause he is a fan favorite off the field and probaly the only texans player that does not mind speaking. I would just be worried that teams just run to his side which might not be a bad thing considering he will not a motherfucker out.

by southpaw70 on Apr 8, 2011 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions

I suppose I could see Pollard as a WLB in a 4-3. Maybe. But asking him to play any OLB position in a 3-4? Please no.

I’d much rather keep him at safety in the box a la Atwater. Scheme around his weaknesses and give him help; a pass rush would be a great place to start.

Pollard was useful for us two years ago, fellas. Nobody was really so useful for us last season on Efense. We cannot afford to quickly trash anyone who might yet help us and our new scheme.

Though, I do understand he may already be gone. We’ll see.

by Cut Block on Apr 8, 2011 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions

Agree

Pollard has no shot at SOLB in 3-4. Hell it’s a stretch for him to play any LB position outside of the WLB spot in 4-3.

"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-Bob McNair

by papabear on Apr 12, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions

But also pray that something happens as far as the injunction or a new CBA

So we can trade off Okoye & someone claims Jacoby’s 2nd round tender

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 8, 2011 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions

I tend to agree, but mostly because...

Scheme is going to play a big part in our front seven. Wade can make up for a weakness here and there with the other talent we have up front. On the back-end, though, that’s not an option. Going from a 4-3 to 3-4 doesn’t do a damn thing to change the fact that we have one player in the secondary above replacement level (and even he needs safety help to avoid getting beat deep). There just nobody there you can give a greater responsibility to in order to cover for other weaknesses.

And yea, I’ve heard the “no more youth in the secondary” rants, but they tend to miss the point: if you completely avoid DBs in 2011, you’re going to go into 2012 with the same exact problem. McCain, Barber, and Nolan are lost causes. McManis probably isn’t worth a roster spot either. Even if you get two new starters in free agency, we need competent bodies back there with the potential to develop.

by Nashmeister on Apr 8, 2011 9:44 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

ever heard of free agency?

plus another year of experience for the youth under coaching by someone not named Frank Bush.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on Apr 8, 2011 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions

This isn't the best year to count on free agency

nor have the Texans shown they are willing to blow the bank on a bunch of free agents signings to shore up weaknesses.

"Ignorance is bliss. Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." Stephen Colbert

by Deepstillbluewaters on Apr 8, 2011 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions

This is so far off base

It’s not even funny

by AllenOU on Apr 8, 2011 10:45 AM CDT via mobile reply actions

I think we're thin at LB period.

While I disagree with JMay’s assessment of our LB depth, I do think much of the national media mistakenly assumes that we have to find a pass rushing OLB. While moar pass rush is always good, what the Texans really need is a WOLB that can contain the run and drop into coverage. That’s the LB not currently on the roster imo. I have a feeling Barwin will get to the QB better than anyone who will be available at #11. We have depth problems all over the defense imo, even on the line. I still think we should take the BPA and stop trying to decide which area is in most need.

"Ignorance is bliss. Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." Stephen Colbert

by Deepstillbluewaters on Apr 8, 2011 11:36 PM CDT reply actions

What you just described is the SOLB's responsibilities, not the WOLB's

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 9, 2011 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions

You are being VERY, VERY optimistic with the current linebackers on the roster.

What about Bentley, I thought he started over Sharpton last year?

by RamblinWreck7 on Apr 10, 2011 12:26 PM CDT reply actions

He's gone

So is Adibi & Diles

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 10, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions

Really?

Crap now we’re even thiner at LB than I previously thought..

by RamblinWreck7 on Apr 10, 2011 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions

According to Wade, none of them fit his 3-4 scheme

Look for him to fill holes in FA or late in the draft

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 10, 2011 8:42 PM CDT up reply actions

Demeco Ryans can easily play at ILB.

Hopefully Cushing can too. Then we would need a 3-4 OLB or two unless Barwin or someone else can play the position.

by RamblinWreck7 on Apr 10, 2011 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions

Mark Anderson is said to be in the rotation at WOLB

We don’t have anyone at SOLB though

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 11, 2011 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions

Barwin is also moving to WOLB

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on Apr 11, 2011 12:24 AM CDT up reply actions

I sincerely hope that Phillips

Takes Ryans aside and teaches him how to play cover, because IMO that’s a glaring weakness in his game.

Now, bring it on. I’m ready.

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on Apr 11, 2011 12:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions

no one bringing it....figured

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on Apr 13, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Clarification

After reading through these comments, I think some people are misunderstanding me. I am by no means saying LB is not a need. I’m just saying it’s not more of one than say S or DT or CB (or even WR).

4 LB: I’d say we have three above replacement level players (if Cush can even split the difference in year one and year two and Barwin is half of what we hope) and one player at replacement (pretty sure most would agree to that on Sharpton). Absolutely, we need depth. Absolutely, we have some serious injury concerns there. But when you consider:

2 Safeties: 0 players at replacement level unless you count Quin and a transition actually working out.

1 DT: I guess Pancakes and Wade might claim 2 replacement level players, but most of us I believe would claim 0 or 1. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt with 1.

3 CB: Lets keep Glover here, and for those purposes, we have 1 of 3 at replacement level.

3 WR: I’d say 1 way above, 1 at replacement (though that might be a stretch for Walter after last year), and one below (I’d consider JJ replacement or even potentially above as a 3, but I’m considering him a free agent, as the Texans should at this point). Not a dire need, but if you got someone you felt was a top tier talent . . .

Point is simple and sorry it wasn’t clear: the Texans are at least adequate at all 4 LB positions. Yes, there is NO depth whatsoever and there are huge question marks. But depth isn’t the issue at other positions, starters are.

Don’t get me wrong. Despite all this, I’d like to see them get Quinn in the first and still might be okay with Smith. I just don’t want them to reach because I think the need a long laundry list.

Now, if you want to say there’s no S, DT, or CB worthy that will be available who is worthy of an 11 spot, that’s a different argument.

by JMay on Apr 16, 2011 2:13 AM CDT reply actions

Not so sure

Point is simple and sorry it wasn’t clear: the Texans are at least adequate at all 4 LB positions

The way I see it is we have only 1 serviceable LB in Cush. Barwin is coming off a major injury and is having a change of position. Even if he happens to be 100% recovered from his injury (which I don’t believe he will) there is still the position change to deal with. Demeco is done. Done at least as an elite LB. He might come back but he will never be the player he was before the injury. So, by my calculations, we are short 1 ILB and 2OLB starters. Sharpton doesn’t have the strength to take on interior lineman blocks and Bentley, well, I think we saw enough from him last season.

"Eat Well, Stay Fit, Die Anyway" - Ancient Chinese Proverb

by Hugh Jarce on Apr 16, 2011 6:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Demeco will be back and better than ever.

We need OLB’s though. We don’t know if Barwin can play OLB. Hopefully Cushing can play ILB so that all we need is a quality OLB and some much needed depth at all the LB positions.

by RamblinWreck7 on Apr 17, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions