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A Hater's Guide To The Texans Draft

I'm not all that impressed. Yet.

I think there exists within Texans fans a natural need to believe in the betterment of our team. The soul-crushing losses of last season have driven away the bandwagoners, and those who are left have seen such dark times that to them, any ray of hope is to be embraced. To quote LoneSpot's signature, "Blind fandom is all I got left."

The hiring of Wade Phillips understandably has fans happy about the direction the defense is going. Probably because there seems to actually be a direction for the first time in the entire Kubiak era. I am not here to knock the draftees off their respective pedestals, and I am not here to tell you I hate any of our draft picks. In fact, I think J.J. Watt is going to be a really good NFL player. I dig Brandon Harris a lot and loved the move to trade up for him. I also realize that this paragraph will be entirely ignored, which is why I just went ahead and titled the piece how I did.

But I am still skeptical about the defense for a few reasons. Not skeptical enough to assume they are going to be as bad as they were last year, but skeptical about how far the improvement can go. If you've read me long enough, you probably already know where I'm heading with this.

Star-divide

1) Nose Tackle and Safety continue to be ignored by the front office in the draft.

For the entirety of the Kubiak era, nay, the entirety of franchise, the Texans have brought in solid or great players at many defensive positions to fortify the defense. Once place they haven't? Nose tackle or safety. 

Given the choice between addressing these issues or drafting a defensive end, which happens to be the only position on the Texans defense that they have good players at, the Texans went with the Best Player Available. That's a terrific strategy at the top of the draft overall, and I applaud it. But if there was any year to dump that strategy, it would be one where we don't know the extent of free agency or the players that will be available in it. 

Maybe Watt can play nose tackle. Maybe Wade Phillips can generate extra pressure with him in creative setups. I think we're tending to be a little lenient there in the belief that Phillips' mere presence is going to turn the defense into an extraordinary machine. He's had a hell of a coaching career and has a track record of turning defenses around. He also had the entire Dallas defense completely quit on him and his scheme last year, and he's not exactly innovating new things at this point in his coaching career. I'm going to go with the oft-quoted, "Let's not start sucking each others popsicles just yet." 

2) Brooks Reed just doesn't inspire much hope from me as a dominant edge rusher.

I think the Texans are living a little too much by the Combine numbers if they think Reed is going to step in at outside linebacker right away and give them eight sacks. Reed has great timed speed for a man of his size, and I think he wraps and tackles well from the little tape I've been able to gather, but his college production doesn't inspire me. 

17 sacks in four years, yet what is the average fan expecting right away? 6? 7? Oft-criticized Aldon Smith nearly got to 17 sacks in two seasons. My preference, Robert Quinn, had 13 in his first two seasons and flashed much more potential to be a physically dominant player. Oh, right, he had a tumor that hadn't been a problem since high school; I forgot. He probably shouldn't even be allowed to play in the NFL.

Do I think Reed will be a good linebacker? Yeah, probably. Do I think he'll be the kind of dominant edge rusher that Phillips' schemes call for? That I'm not so sure about. Connor Barwin may end up being that chess piece anyway, but if he is, 42nd overall is a pretty high pick for someone who essentially has little experience covering and isn't a top echelon pass rusher. Maybe he'll prove me wrong--I hope he does--but I'm not counting on it. 

3) Moving Glover Quin to safety seems like a move that could backfire to me this year.

In any other season, I'd be thrilled with the idea of moving Quin to a position that I have been campaigning for him to play since his rookie year. 

But with a new defensive coordinator, a new position, and possibly almost zero offseason to get acclimated to either of them? I'm not sure that plays out very well in my head. I grant that he should be as good as they think he will be there, but I might not want to risk it this year given the labor climate, especially since he's a decent cornerback in his own right.

And what happens should the Texans not be able to sign that top-tier free agent corner we all know they'll be targeting? Kareem Jackson and Harris starting? Troy Nolan and Dominique Barber? Yikes.

It just seems like in this particular offseason, there would be a lot more value in maintaining stability than in any other. Thus, Quin to safety and the complete ignorance to Oshiomogho Atogwe's free agency leave me feeling empty.

4) The bottom line...

The Texans went into this draft with major needs at outside linebacker, defensive tackle (I don't care what they publicly say, it's there), safety, and cornerback. They addressed, in my eyes, maybe one and a half of those needs over the last three days.

Maybe Reed can overcome his poor Football Outsiders projection.  Maybe Watt can play a key role in some unbalanced fronts that help create pressure and turnovers.  Maybe Keo can become the real safety the Texans haven't been able to find yet.  Maybe Quin can be a great free safety right off the bat.  Maybe DeMeco Ryans and Barwin will be 100% on day one.  And maybe the Texans really are fine with an Earl Mitchell / Shaun Cody nose tackle platoon. If those things happen, I'll be the first one in line to praise Phillips for it. 

But right now, it still seems like a premise that's built on a whole lot of maybes to me. That's better than what the Texans had last season, probably, and they still might be able to fix the rest of their problems with free agency, but I'm not holding my breath that they'll start bringing in fixes left and right given their track record.

Comment 145 comments  |  4 recs  | 

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I agree

This entire draft predicates on getting an above average CB in FA.
If we do I think we should end up alright.

by AlDe2356 on May 1, 2011 2:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Age-ist much?
He’s also going to be 65 when next season starts …"

He doesn’t have to PLAY defense Rivers… He’s COACHING the defense…
Yeah, this one went beyond cute…

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 1, 2011 3:00 PM CDT reply actions  

K.C. Joyner ran an interesting study about the shelf life of coaches

Concluding that they start to decline after their first 10 years in the league as a general rule.

I’m not out to go hunting old people. Nor does that study extend to coordinators. But I also don’t think it’s unfair to rule out that he might have lost the midas touch at this point.

by riversmccown on May 1, 2011 5:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would agree with that except

Wade’s always been heavily involved with his defenses. This isn’t someone who has exploited assistants, you know? He’s seen the evolution of the game and his defensive scheme does continue to work.

Now does he have the players to make it work? Valid question. Some guys are his, some aren’t.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 1, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dick LeBeau seems to be doing fine.

I'm looking forward to bigger and better things from the Texans this year... I've decided to start fresh and refocus on the things that matter... thats right... I speak of SKIN BLEACH! no need to burn your throat.. it can't feel it anymore anyways! apply directly to the skin or eyes and let the mind blowing pain steal your focus from the disaster on the field!

by BattleRedHusker on May 1, 2011 9:25 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

ANECDOTAL DATA!!

SHOW ME THE STATISTICS!

We are all important to each other, and because of this we have a purpose. - Daniel Black (Yes, that's me)

by Schlauton on May 1, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

As I said going into the draft...

Nothing we could have done in the draft this year would have fixed this defense for 2011. We had arguably the worst defense in football last year, and the relative strength of it (front-seven) is the part that we’re changing with the new scheme. All but one player in that front seven will be learning a new scheme in a short off-season. Our biggest need in the draft (free safety) was the weakest position group available. Our second-biggest need (CB), though deep in this draft, is a position with a big learning curve.

I’ve made my love of the Watt pick well-known, but the real beauty of this draft was injecting talent into the secondary. Regardless of whether or not we sign Asomugha, if they’re truly planning to move Quin to safety (which I’m also vehemently against), we needed more talent at CB. Now they have it; we’re not forced to put all of our eggs in the Kareem Jackson basket.

I agree completely on Reed; I think he’s a guy who peaks at 6-8 sacks. I don’t love it in the second round, but I can’t deny that we needed more bodies at OLB.

by Nashmeister on May 1, 2011 3:13 PM CDT reply actions  

On Reed...

I’m thinking he’s going to be a 10+ sack guy pretty much his entire career here in Houston. He has refined pass rushing moves, never gives up on plays, and has a very fast start. That’s really all you need to play rush linebacker in the 3-4. With our upgraded front 3 and the attention Williams/Barwin will draw on the other side of the ball, he’s going to get his share of clean rushes.

College stats in Reed’s case aren’t all that telling to me as he was playing on the line in college with his hand in the dirt…, standing up wide at OLB it’s going to be tough for a tackle to adjust to his speed off the snap, and then even if they do catch him he actually has some pretty good moves to throw at em and with his “motor”, he’s going to be a factor ALOT in the passing game.

by Bryan72076 on May 1, 2011 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

i agree with you bryan

Reed s going to be nice why can’t the season hurry up and start already.

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's what we're hoping for, I suppose.

Not sure how much precedent there is for that, but maybe they saw enough on film that convinced them it might happen…

by Nashmeister on May 1, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

i like the pick. from. what little i know of him

But expecting +10 plus sacks year in year out is a lot to ask from even a proven player. There just aren’t that many guys putting up those sack numbers consitstently over a long period of time

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on May 1, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thing is...

This defense is all about getting pressure on the QB and it uses an aggressive DL to force blockers away from blitzing LBs… OLB is a position you see an inflated amt of sacks anyways due to the nature of the 3-4 in large part…

Lamarr Woodley, DeMarcus Ware, Terrell Suggs, Joey Porter, Mike Vrabel, Joey Porter, Shawne Merriman, James Harrison, Rosevelt Colvin, Jason Gildon, Shaun Phillips…. The list goes on and on… Point is if this defense works at least one of our LBs will probably hit double digit in sacks, and just looking at the front 7 we have now… I see potential for alot of mismatches, which usually lead to a blitzing LB being left unblocked on occasion…. Even if Reed isn’t a superstar, he’s going to look like it on paper cause he’s going to get to the QB often… But that’s just like, my opinion man.

by Bryan72076 on May 1, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

it all depends on whether Reed plays weak or strong side

if he plays the strong side, does a 10 sack threshhold really mean anything?

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 1:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed, this is defensive rebuilding NOT retooling

FWIW we should expect this staff to be retained at least until Kubiak’s contract expires, two seasons from now. 2011 isnt playoffs or bust, contrary to polpular prefrence.

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed!

Kubiak was named coach for life years ago.

by PressToMECO on May 2, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmm my tab seems to be double posting the extra post in inappropriate places

Youu seem to be following my line of thinking there, PTM, but even l do not believe Uncle Bob’s patience to be that extreme.

by Cut Block on May 3, 2011 3:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hope so.

I’d love to feel stupid on this one.

by riversmccown on May 1, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Matthews

Gods gift to football Clay Matthews had 5 sacks in college. College production certainly matters but it is not the end all be all.

by battlered90 on May 2, 2011 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Peaks?

Heck 6-8 sacks is not a bad number for the Texans. Reed will be fine. He holds up well against the run and is better at holding the edge.

"Kenny your a knucklehead." -Charles Barkley
"If winning isn't everything, then why do they keep score?" - Vince Lombardi

by Patrick D. Starr on May 1, 2011 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brian Orakpo

Had 20 sacks in 4 years at DE in college. Came to the NFL and had 11 as a rookie OLB. So there is some precedent there for sack numbers to improve after the position change

by LouisianaTexan on May 1, 2011 7:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

tl;dr

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 1, 2011 3:20 PM CDT reply actions  

I’d imagine Reed will play right side behind Mario, which means he’d get matched up on TE’s and RB’s a lot. That’s a matchup that from what I’ve seen on tape he should win, plus he’s stout against the run. With Barwin on the otherside hopefully living up to his FO projections our pass rush should be fine. In terms of Nose, Cody plays in the base, but I’d imagine with the amount of nickel defence played in the NFL, Smith or Watt will end up playing quite a few snaps there, that I can live with.

by BestOf5 on May 1, 2011 3:21 PM CDT reply actions  

mario does not plat TE side to much.

but i am with you on the nickel thing which will be the psycho package

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good point, in that case it’s RB/FB’s or Mario gets a guard trying to slide… HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Even if Reed plays the other side, I’m not sure I don’t like that more, Barwin against… a Tackle trying to get out to him? A RB? I think our pass rush will be fine. I like Reed as a part-time rusher stout against the run guy.

by BestOf5 on May 1, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like that for the name of the package, too. Imagine hearing Meco call "Psycho! Psycho!"

Barwin comes down into an under while standing, Mario on RDE, Watt kicks in to NT, Smith at LDE, and Reed blitzes.

You can just see the QB shitting himself.

by Karsh on May 1, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

you must don't know what psycho package is well let me tell you

Mario, Cushing, Meco, Reed, Barwin, Smith, Watt all will be standing moving around. One of them i think will be over Center but which one nobody knows. scary thought seeing all those guys already standing up.

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

This reminds me of a play from the first game last year...

when I saw it, I was wondering when Bush snuck a peek at Wade’s play book… The Entire line was moving around switching positions and P8un got a little frazzled. The Psycho Package is an amazing formation because it keeps even the smartest QBs questioning what the hell is going on. I am excited to see how Wade uses the players we currently have and also who he goes and gets in FA after he ties up Rick Smith!

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 1, 2011 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Several plays.....

and then was not to be seen again all year….even the second time we played indy.

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on May 2, 2011 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

BC

As a fan since negative day one (yes, I have banners and pens that simply say Houston Football 2002), I have to say that I am disgruntled as ever with this franchise. I’ve sold my PSL’s and will not be having breakfast @ 1 Reliant Park even once this season, however I will still watch every game with that small glimmer of hope that my team can finally break through and be a respectable organization.

I’m not overly impressed with this draft either but considering the perceived limited talent in the class as a whole I believe they did about as well as they could. We won’t truly know until 2014 or so. If they can land 2-3 impact players on defense through free agency it should be enough to get the defense to the middle of the pack. Unless Scrabble ends up wearing the cowhead, Wade was likely the best offseason signing.

The main issue working against us fans is that Daddy Bob is making money hand-over-fist without making much effort to field a championship team. We may have to wait for Cal to take over before getting a winner here.

Thanks for letting me vent and go Texans.

It's Our Time.... or something...

by bennprince on May 1, 2011 3:23 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Ok rivers

I think Quin moving to safety would be great only if two things happen.
1.Sign a vet CB like we all said
2. sign Pollard back so saftey would not be a issue well SS.
Now with the brooks reed thing i think he will be great for us. How could you not like this pick. I mean who do you think would have been better for SOLB?

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 3:25 PM CDT reply actions  

Pollard was a HUGE issue at SS

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on May 1, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

but like i said he was having to do to much.

worrying about corners getting beat and all. I say if you get him back he will be good again. Only if we get a great FA corner. That way you you still have jackson playing but the help from quin would be worth it over top. Pollard can do what he do best knock motherfuckers out.

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pollard is an extra LB..

he is susceptible to any kind of actual coverage but he is good against the run when he tackles right, and will make any ball handler hurt. I thought last year with our players we should have been playing the 46 because we have mostly big hitting run stoppers but I think that is what Wade’s D’s work with as well high octane QB pressure and hoping that it will be enough to flub the game through the air!

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 1, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

l agree with you and southpaw

what a shame, we had our safeties playing what?… Cover Two?… what a waste of time and effort

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 1:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

pretty much

i think one game i saw is when pollard was blitzing seem like every other down. should have been doing it alot more.

by southpaw70 on May 2, 2011 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Personally

I would’ve gone Quinn in the first, Paea/Moore with the first second.

by riversmccown on May 1, 2011 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Paea....

…. should have been you…

by DisplacedTexan on May 1, 2011 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll say this

I think Reed has the better stand up rush ability….and I really didn’t grade him too far off of Quinn. I think there is a lot of similarities between the two actually. I just think, 3-4 wise, Reed was valued properly while Quinn’s value is coming from his 4-3 rush abilities.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 1, 2011 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

No way

Paea is a project. A project I’d love to see us take on, but we don’t have time for this sort of thing in round 2. Reed is much closer to being ready to play.

I don’ get the Quinn thing. In 2008, he was great. He hasn’t played since and tumor asife, isn’t exactly a genius. He ain’t Von in brains or character. The Herzlich story is basically the same, except his 40 was slow. High 1st round for Quinn, UFA for Herzlich. Doesn’t make sense to me.

by smokehaus on May 2, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with you about Reed

I just don’t see how anyone thinks of him as a good pass rusher. Here’s a stat that I just came across:

Brooks Reed: 8.5 sacks, 15 TFL in the last two years
Ricky Elmore: 21.5 sacks, 24.5 TFL in the last two years

Who is Ricky Elmore? Well, none other than Reed’s teammate at Arizona, also known as the guy drafted in the sixth round by the Packers.

by SATexan on May 1, 2011 3:27 PM CDT reply actions  

I know who he is

and i like him too and even D’Aundra Reed was good too when he got in. But they both are true DE not OLB’s ELmore could be OLB maybe but with his speed being in the 4.9 range i don’t know.

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

From the tape I’ve seen Reed is always getting pressure, making QB’s step up or run. He’s a guy who makes those around him look better. Watch. http://www.youtube.com/user/JoshMTD#p/u/1/5nVxqmBYxwQ#t=0m32s he rushes from a two point twice early, and the O linemen struggle with him. I see a guy who might only bring in 6-8 sacks but will make the guys around him look better. That is something that I can more then live with.

by BestOf5 on May 1, 2011 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Link didn't work properly...

which point am I supposed to be looking at here?

by Karsh on May 1, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dang, Reed has some quick feet!

Quick feet in the NFL is mucho bueno.

My attitude is like a virgin......I dont give a fuck!

by The Abrego on May 2, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Reed

Missed a few games also. Wade will put Reed in a position to succeed.

"Kenny your a knucklehead." -Charles Barkley
"If winning isn't everything, then why do they keep score?" - Vince Lombardi

by Patrick D. Starr on May 1, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

On a more positive note:
Houston’s goal for the 2011 NFL Draft was simple: Find as much talent for Wade Phillips’ defense as possible. Mission accomplished.

The Texans made great selections throughout the entire weekend. J.J. Watt will function as Phillips’ Phil Hansen, while Brooks Reed and Brandon Harris were steals in Round 2.

Houston’s defense will no longer be the laughing stock of the NFL. This team just improved exponentially, and at this point, I think it’ll be a huge upset if the Texans don’t make the playoffs for the first time in franchise history.

Overall 2011 NFL Draft Grade given on 5/1/11: A-

http://walterfootball.com/offseason2011hou.php

by Mike Kerns on May 1, 2011 3:38 PM CDT reply actions   2 recs

most people gave us a B

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

by Joe25 on May 1, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

I saw a guy on CBS Sports

Gave us the lowest rating in the AFC South (even though ours was a B).

by Mike Kerns on May 1, 2011 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

wait the lowest rating in the AFC south

did he see the Jags draft?

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

by Joe25 on May 1, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

grades are so high school

These kids are now playing with the best in the world. So i mean when you have castronze or whatever his name trying to block mario is kinda scary. cause you already saw what college DE’s and linbackers do to him.

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

The Texans are consistently getting

Bs to A-s…..with them showing up on a lot of winner sections.

I don’t recall the last time I saw this much praise for a Texans draft.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 1, 2011 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks for that Kerns... rec'd

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 1, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Dude. Seriously.

Charley’s gotta go.

Blind fandom is all I got left. That and this bottle of Clorox. And this Drano. And this lamp. And this paddle ball game.

by LoneSpot on May 1, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Again.

Blind fandom is all I got left. That and this bottle of Clorox. And this Drano. And this lamp. And this paddle ball game.

by LoneSpot on May 1, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Haters gonna hate.

And draft Jason Babin.

Canal Street Chronicles-A place of great Saints news and information. Oh and the stuff I write!

by Jon Banks on May 1, 2011 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

POSITRON

Gold Star From Tony (Big Chicklets) Robbins :)

by Hangbok on May 1, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Heretic

Needs more nose tackle.

by JimboTexan on May 1, 2011 4:13 PM CDT reply actions  

This is how I see you rivers...

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 1, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

How about....

…You bring balance to The Force?

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 1, 2011 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think I see what you did there if you missed the "reply" button...

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 1, 2011 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

GQ

We don’t still move him to safety if we don’t get a good FA CB, do we? He’s obviously our best corner. I’d want to be careful with that, too.

by WhiskeyR on May 1, 2011 4:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't know.

But then, who do you have to play corner?

Somehow we’ve got to fix that, with either a good FS or a good corner in FA. If we can’t do that, this is going to be interesting.

by WhiskeyR on May 1, 2011 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

1981 San Francisco 49's

Had basically a totally inexperienced secondary.

I know it was a long time ago – and I hope we don’t go all new guys in place (Move GQ Kareem + rookies) but it has been done successfully

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 1, 2011 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

How do you remember things like that?

There’s a lot of things that aren’t impossible, but in the history of the Texans I can’t remember every being the exception.

by WhiskeyR on May 1, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

I remember them beating the Oilers

 that year and I am pretty sure that was a Super-Bowl year for them

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 1, 2011 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is why i said sign pollard back.

Quin to free pollard at SS vet CB and Jackson other one.

by southpaw70 on May 1, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

It is hard to tell

How well the Texans did – until at least the end of this year – if not in a couple of years. I got the feeling like some here that this time it looked like they knew what they were doing. I was a big Quinn guy, but maybe because I really like the “comeback” thing involved.

I am really looking forward to real Texans football this year – more so than ever. I tend to drink the Battle-Red drank at the beginning of the season – but I feel better about the Texans this year more than I have since 2002 (just having football)

My fear is that the NFL lockout-what-have-you will screw it up for everyone

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 1, 2011 4:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed, Rivers.

I personally give this draft a B-. I they picked Fairley, it would have been an A. Nothing against Watt, I just can’t get the image of destruction out of my head that Fairley would have wreaked as Wade’s NT, ala Ratliff. Plus, Watt I likely depth at a position of our greatest strength. As for FAs, I see us needing a minimum of two quality DBs and possibly a NT. That’s three more needs than I believe they’ll fill.

Blind fandom is all I got left. That and this bottle of Clorox. And this Drano. And this lamp. And this paddle ball game.

by LoneSpot on May 1, 2011 4:44 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Fairley

They said the biggest knock on Fairley was he has trouble learning. Auburn turned him loose and said sic the quarterback. In the NFL, you cant do that. Suh will cover him up with his discipline. Fairley will be good with another player next to his side, didn’t fit the scheme in Houston. Not enough butt to play he five, not disciplined and plays way too high for the nose.

Fairley could easily be a bust, Wade takes chances on players, but its not time to do that in Houston.

"Kenny your a knucklehead." -Charles Barkley
"If winning isn't everything, then why do they keep score?" - Vince Lombardi

by Patrick D. Starr on May 1, 2011 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

What do you think Wade's system is?

It’s a 1-gap system. Tell Fairley to go to the QB and take down any RB that happens to have the ball in-between. This isn’t a tough concept, and it’s EXACTLY why Fairley was the superior choice. Instead, we addressed the only, literally the only position we had covered with Watt.

Now, if we send Watt to NT and tell him what I said above? Great. It’ll then become, who’s better between Fairley and Watt. But that’s not what’s going to happen. If we kick Mario to OLB into the “Ware” role? Great. Not counting on that, either.

The only way in which I disagree with Rivers is I do not believe Moore to be even an average NFL starter at S.

Also, thinking that Reed is good for 10+ sacks a year is ridiculous. Jeebus.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on May 1, 2011 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

We can find someone later to play one gap nose.

Perhaps we re sign Damione; perhaps we pick up someone else. No need to spend on questionable prospects like Fairley, when quality and versatilty like Watt is there for the taking. We could afford to add talent everywhere on our defensive unit. This may be a complete rebuild on defense, remember?

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

2-1/2 out of 3 is better then nothing.

Nothing is what last year looked like.

As for the safety issue I got 2 words: Matt Stevens.
Anything since is an improvement. At least that’s how I always figured the FO looked at the position.
How else could you explain it?

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 1, 2011 5:06 PM CDT reply actions  

Ed Reed could carry Matt Stevens throughout the entire game

And still probably cover more ground than the safeties (exempting Quin) on this roster right now.

by riversmccown on May 1, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

You could probably throw C.C. 'he's not Brown, he's Toast' on Reed's shoulders, too, and Reed would still cover more ground.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 2, 2011 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

NEGATRONS

Two words for you; TONY ROBBINS

by Hangbok on May 1, 2011 5:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Watt?! A different post-draft view from the herd

Thanks Rivers for bringing my ‘feel good’ draft sentiments into a soft landing. I for one think this draft coupled with our experienced coaching staff will definitely improve our defense (although we have no way to go but up with the kind of defense we had last year). We still need quality FA pickups for this defense. Will it be enough for a playoff ticket? I’m also skeptical. Will the 4-3-taught veterans and the ‘high-motor’ rookies be able to buy in to Wade’s def philosophy in time? We all would like to hope so. Small steps.

by b0wse on May 1, 2011 6:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Robert Quinn's sacks.

11 out of 13 were against weak competition. Of his 11 sacks, six came in two games against ACC doormats, two more against NCAA Football Championship Subdivision teams with losing records, and three against Bowl Subdivision winning teams.

No matter how bad it gets,I will believe.It's the only thing I have left for the Texans.

by Ethan Matz on May 1, 2011 6:33 PM CDT reply actions  

And lets be honest.

I’m having a hard time believing Nnamdi will come to the Texans no matter how much we pay him. You think he’s going to leave the Raiders who have won nothing with him and join a team that has won just little more than the Raiders?

He’s probably going to a team like the Eagles or Steelers who actually have done something.Might as well accept that now than be full of hate later.

There are good CB’s on the market not named Nnamdi that I expect the Texans to actually have a shot at getting.

If we do somehow get him I’ll be shocked to be honest.

No matter how bad it gets,I will believe.It's the only thing I have left for the Texans.

by Ethan Matz on May 1, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

He might like the idea of getting the credit for saving the team

If the Texans defense becomes pretty ok and Nnamdi Asomugha is on the team, who do you think people would credit the massive turnaround to?

by Karsh on May 1, 2011 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

THIS ^^^^^

Still i am not going to hold my breath.

Texas. Gods favorite country.

by CoolBreeze3 on May 1, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wade Phillips

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 1, 2011 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now your just being the devils advocate....

Asomugha would still get a ton of credit.

We are all important to each other, and because of this we have a purpose. - Daniel Black (Yes, that's me)

by Schlauton on May 1, 2011 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

+1

Nice research.

Also proves my point :)

"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.

by bone31crusher on May 1, 2011 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand your point rivers....

can’t be excited unless we actually prove it that we can win. But at the same time, that’s the roll of the dice we take on a draft to fill needs. I’d rather that they draft based on needs with best player available than like last year where we reached to address needs. I think this will be contingent on FA and if fill some needs with FA, I believe we will make our first playoffs.

by Tony Ung on May 1, 2011 7:04 PM CDT reply actions  

I disagree with about half, maybe the majority of this post.

The thing that I disagree most with is the thing with Reed. He converted from a HB to OLB in college. He’s a hell of an athlete. He did 30 reps at the combine, and his footwork at the combine, even if it was amazing, is better than being shitty. He’s still developing at the OLB spot, as is Watt at the DE/DT spot.

And the thing about Wade’s age is kind of ridiculous. I think you posted that just for the sake of negativity, which is what this post is all about, but it’s a pretty ignorant thing to post.

I think GQ will be fine at FS. His speed isn’t great, but it’s good enough. He has good instincts, and I think having developed his coverage skills while playing at CB will help him. The only concern I have, which is what you pointed out, is his inexperience. I think once he gets the hang of it, he’ll be fine. I think we’ll at least have some training camp, and all of Pre-Season to move him into that spot.

Harris is pro-ready. That’s what we all said about K-Jax last year, but I think Harris is different. Remember, this guy was projected as a mid-first round pick before last year’s college season. He underachieved, but his ’09 season was incredibly good, so he has the talent.

I’m pretty high on Keo right now. He has very good ball skills, and has great instincts. I think the only negative about him is his speed, but I think his play-making ability can overcome that. Besides, some people run faster while their playing on the field, not at the combine.

And as for Robert Quinn, I was very high on him. However, I wasn’t a fan after I heard some things about him. It also appeared on his gamefilm. First, he takes plays off, quite a few of them. He has all of the talent, but lacks a constant motor. Second, all of his production came against shitty competition. He didn’t show up against good competition.

Watt dominated when Wisconsin played Ohio State. He was matched up with an OT of the Buckeyes who’s projected to be a first rounder next year. Watt’s also a lot more versatile, meaning he can play anywhere on the DLine. Many people say Watt has hit his ceiling. That’s ridiculous. He’s only played DE for two full years. He’s got plenty of room to improve. Same goes for Reed at OLB.

This is a good, well-written post, but I fail to see the point of it, considering we’ve had one of our best drafts in franchise history. I don’t see why a pessimistic post like this should be published. I’ve never been this optimistic since maybe two years ago. Again, I fail to see the point of this post.

"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.

by bone31crusher on May 1, 2011 7:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Reed converted from TE, not HB

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 1, 2011 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

That's Watt.

Reed competed to be a Halfback in early 2007 before converting to D-End.

by Karsh on May 1, 2011 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reed was a H-Back/TE at Arizona
Brooks Reed 6’3 262 pounds 17 sacks, 107 tackles, a great pass rusher, always getting pressure, his teammate Elmore had more sacks but Reed was double teamed more throughout his career, and still got pressure

and yes he can play olb, he is fluid/athletic enough to be in coverage as we saw during the senior bowl practices/game We all know he can blitz and play the run, and would be a monster standing up as a rusher. He was also a fullback in high school and was originally h-back/te at Arizona before switching to defense, so he has some experience on the other side which will help him covering.

Check Description For Reference

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 1, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Connor Barwin

needs to grow his hair out so we have 3 long haired white boys on our line. Demeco’s workin on his fro.

by wiseonekms on May 1, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

hmmm

Any idea when the last time was that Schaub had his locks trimmed? I think l saw a front page story at the Comicle, that he wanted to grow his out until we made the playoffs…

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 8:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Just an observation from the peanut gallery.....

………….The Texans first three picks were off the charts. You guys should be dancing in the streets. With Reed, Watt, Williams, Barwin, etc…Holy crap that is awesome. Those guys right there can make almost any CB a pro bowler.
Good luck guys, you should enjoy yourselves much more this year.

"One flew East, One flew West...One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest."

by Masons on May 1, 2011 7:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Thanks.

"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.

by bone31crusher on May 1, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're quite welcome.......

…………I am a HUGE Andre Johnson fan ( what’s not to like ). Anyway IMO the whole defensive season will ride on the heart of the Texans (DeMeco) coming back strong. I sure hope he can, he is a great guy and player.
Cheers!

"One flew East, One flew West...One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest."

by Masons on May 1, 2011 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Kesey fan?

That book blew my mind. Can’t decide between it and Sometimes a Great Notion for top of my list.

by Nashmeister on May 1, 2011 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

My favorite movie as well......

…………..book fan? Try “Lust For Life” Irving Stone. About, Van Gogh, just finished recently, great read.
While you’re reading it watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dipFMJckZOM

"One flew East, One flew West...One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest."

by Masons on May 1, 2011 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

cant blame anyone for being pessimistic

But I gotta trust Wade knows what he is doing with these guys. If Wade thinks we are good enough on the line with these guys… who am I to question him?

These hands will always be rough

by nolander on May 1, 2011 8:08 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

History favors him

well in the first year anyways

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

by Joe25 on May 1, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand the issue

with our lack of safety depth, but I don’t see why we constantly argue for that “nose tackle.” Last year, we were pretty stout against the run, (while this may be a product of teams choosing to pass more against us), I still think our problem isn’t lack of talent on the line: particularly at nose tackle. If Wade’s scheme never really calls for a true nose tackle/ 2-gapper, then getting multiple big but athletic defensive lineman like Watt, Mario, and Antonio doesn’t bother me.

Safety, however, I completely understand. The top gets blown off of our defense far too often. It’s time we invested an entire draft/free agency to addressing the safety issue.

by wiseonekms on May 1, 2011 8:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree

I like Keo, but I don’t think he should be starting right away. Michael Huff would be a nice target for FS & Quin could move to SS, seeing as the safeties are supposed to be twins anyways

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 1, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm pretty ok with this draft.

I wasn’t all that happy with the Watt pick, but I do think he is going to be good. I loved the trade up to get Harris, so yeah I’m down. Plenty of work to do, but I like it. I still feel like an abused spouse, so my enthusiasm is not exactly off the charts.

by MadMartygan on May 1, 2011 9:07 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

1. True still no DT but we now have another DE who is very large to the point where he can play in the middle without getting pushed around like a regular DE. Also with one of the current DT’s on the roster playing in the middle, it gives Mario and Smith more rotations out which will keep them fresh during the game.

2. Brooks Reed doesn’t inspire much hope for you? Does Mark Anderson or Diles/Adibi? those are not edge rushers at all.. here we have a guy that CAN be great if he’s used and coached correctly. Even at his worst he’s an immediate upgrade over the filth we could be lining up.

3. GQ without any training or guidance > Ewww and Nolan/Barber. and if we get a FA, great.. if not then what’s it matter? our secondary remains the same but with rookies who are likely better than McCain / McManis / Molden etc.

4. LB DT S CB is 4. We drafted starting caliber DE (.5) LB (1) S (0 til proven 1) CB (1 [2 players who likely see alot of playing time]). thats 2.5/4 minimum.

My Scathing Review of your Scathing Review is that your too worried.

Your a Texans Fan. Distrust i can understand, but we drafted people that MADE SENSE. no TE Bullshit this year, we got great value on when we picked our people, and the people we got are projected to actually be decent if not good.

When things might be good, let them be good things. For all the bad things, drink Bleach.

I'm looking forward to bigger and better things from the Texans this year... I've decided to start fresh and refocus on the things that matter... thats right... I speak of SKIN BLEACH! no need to burn your throat.. it can't feel it anymore anyways! apply directly to the skin or eyes and let the mind blowing pain steal your focus from the disaster on the field!

by BattleRedHusker on May 1, 2011 9:58 PM CDT reply actions  

agreed. this is not a defensive retooling, it's a full blown rebulding

We need to temper ourselves, and accept the fact that Koobs’ staff will likely see the end of his contract, after 2012. At the very least. Our fanbase thinks this is ‘playoffs or bust’ yet again. There is plenty of reason to doubt that it is.

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

In Other News

This Has Been Confirmed: OSAMA BIN LADEN IS DEAD!!!!!!!!

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 1, 2011 10:08 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah

Just saw that on ESPN ticker. Almost 10 years since the 9/11 attacks. Long time coming…

by Tony Ung on May 1, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

I struggle with some of the "glee" that Geraldo is showing...

…because while I would have gladly pulled the trigger myself, it is still killing a human being.
Grim satisfaction… a feeling of justice… okay… Happy? mmmmm… just doesn’t sound right.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 1, 2011 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I gave it a B-

I would’ve like Fairley and Bowers picked in the 1st and 2nd round over the guys we picked. Both of those guys, at some point, were projected to go #1. I feel like the Texans sacrificed talent to make “safe” picks. Oh well, what done is done. If it works out kool, if not then maybe the Texans will get rid of Kubiak. I see the Texans going 8-8 for the season and once again not good enough to get into the playoff, but not bad enough to get a possible franchise player

"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey

by fanoflosingteams on May 2, 2011 1:23 AM CDT reply actions  

l think this is a fine write up, Rivers.

You have every right to be skeptical, and your presentation is logical. I disagree somewhat, l’m very optimistic about our moves for the long run, but l can certainly appreciate your valid skepticism.

I only want to add that Walsh-tree coaches tend to shy away from unathletic players on both sides of the ball (obese linemen, for instance).

Yeah, sometimes it drives me crazy, too.

by Cut Block on May 2, 2011 2:38 AM CDT reply actions  

Skepticism

It’s a way of saying he expects better, don’t you think? It can be a glass half empty vs the glass half full thingy. Rivers is a half-empty kind of guy. Which many are, because where’s the proof? Where’s the fixes that we have all talked about for so long? Why should the results change if some of the most glaring weaknesses aren’t addressed.

But, what keeps the other folks, the glass half-full guys thinking that way? We see the Wade doesn’t need big NTs for his defense. We see football players that don’t quit on any play and we see football players that will create advantages that weren’t they before. We see changes that we hope will work where Rivers sees changes that might not work.

The bottom line is, how thirsty is Rivers and how long will it take for the Texans’ D to play good enough to satiate his thirst?

One point that Rivers didn’t cover above (probably because it’s not a draft issue) and one that I think will potentially have the greatest impact, greater than any rookie impact, is what will be Mario Williams role in all of this? How will Mario do? How much will Wade move him around? What will be his best position? Will he excel in all roles and end up being the wild card that tips the scales in the Texans’ favor? I expect Rivers to hit this exact point in a future story.

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on May 2, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

agreed on all counts

and definitely looking forward to more analysis from RMcC and even from yourself

by Cut Block on May 3, 2011 3:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hater's guide to the hater's guide

#2. Hate it. Say what you will about Aldon Smith, he wasn’t there at #11 anyway. Honestly the talent level at #66 (Dontay Moch) or #70 (Justin Houston) and #7 (Aldon Smith) just wasn’t very significant. You don’t draft into a depth of talent like that. You fill other needs knowing that the drop off in talent level will not be precipitous in the next round or two.

That doesn’t even account for the fact that converting 1st round college DEs to NFL OLBs has historically had a less than a 50/50 success rate. For every success you can name, I can name at least one failure. Gholston, Ayers, English, Babin, Lawson….I could keep going. Each of these had talent evaluators swearing up and down that they were the next great pass rushing OLBs. You don’t want 50/50 at #11.

And for your pick Quinn?? Let’s look at his 13 sacks. He had 2 his first year and then 11 his second. Now 11 sounds pretty nice right? So let’s take a closer look at those. Hmmm…3 against the perennial champs Duke Blue Devils. Oh wait that team’s really weak, isn’t it? Wait…he had another 3 against the powerhouse Virginia Cavaliers. Oh, no, they were 3-9 and kind of sucked. Wait, wait, he had 2 in another game…against East Carolina. OK, so he had 1 against The Citadel, Georgia Southern, and BC! So of his 11 sacks, he had 6 against the “top-notch talent” (note sarcasm) of Duke and Virginia, 8 if you count the terror that is East Carolina and 10 if you count 2 more teams that were playing levels above their heads. The short story? Quinn padded his stats against a LOT of inferior talent.

Brooks Reed’s second year? 1 sack against a 12 win USC…1 sack against a 10 win BYU…2 sacks against a 9 win Cal team…should I keep going? Do you notice a difference in the level of talent that Reed performed well against???

by mkuske mkuske on May 3, 2011 7:06 PM CDT reply actions  

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