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Examining The Houston Texans Offense: Gary Kubiak's West Coast Offense

Earlier this off-season, our dearly beloved MDC dissected the Wade Phillips 3-4 defensive scheme. Now, we turn our attention to Gary Kubiak's West Coast Offense. Given some of the complaints heard during last season's games and the shift of philosophy from Kyle Shanahan to Rick Dennison, it's probably important that we remind ourselves what is supposed to happen on the playing field.

Jump below to get a lesson in the West Coast Offense, and yes...I'll do my best to explain at a level that the casual fan can understand, while reminding some of the students of the game why Kubiak's offense does the things it does.

Star-divide

Where did this fancy-schmancy West Coast Offense come from?
The answer is simple - San Francisco 49ers head coaching legend Bill Walsh.

Walsh developed his concepts while he was an assistant coach for the Cincinnati Bengals from 1968-75. Coach Walsh would tweak it some and implement his full system in San Francisco which, of course, sparked their dominance of the 1980s. Walsh, who once was a student of THE Paul Brown, would begin his coaching tree by influencing the likes of Mike Holmgren, Jim Fassel, Paul Hacket, Sam Wyche, George Seifert, and Dennis Green.

These coaches would pass on their influences to many others - including current NFL head coaches Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, John Fox, Mike McCarthy, Jack Del Rio, Mike Smith, Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Mike Shanahan, and, of course, Gary Kubiak. On a related side note, 14 of the last 30 Super Bowl champions and 10 of the 30 runner-ups were coached by someone in the Walsh coaching tree.

Okay, Bill Walsh has pretty much influenced the vast majority of the league for a long, long time, but what is the West Coast Offense exactly?
The West Coast Offense (hereafter referred to as WCO) is an offense that is all about precision, timing, and trust. With the proper personnel, which I will get into below, you should be able to move the ball with machine-like efficiency.

The driving philosophy of the system is "pass to set up the run." The quarterback will drop back and make short horizontal/intermediate passes of 4-to-14 yards. The idea is that you stretch the defense out sideways with the pass, which opens up running lanes. This intermediate offense also causes the safeties to cheat up which will allow the offense to land the knockout punch (a/k/a the deep pass). Don't get that mistaken. though. because the goal is to chip away at a defense, as opposed to being a vertical-strike, Mike Martz offense. A WCO should keep a defense on its heels, wear them down with high play counts, and then run all over them when a lead is obtained.

Walsh's pursuit of offensive perfection led to him scripting the first 15-25 plays of the game. The offense would practice those plays endlessly to ensure that the timing between quarterback and receiver was flawless, as well as cutting down on mistakes and penalties by repetition. With the plays scripted, an offense could, in theory, control the pace of the game. Another benefit of The Script is noticing the defense’s tendencies on certain routes and situations, which could then be exploited in the second half of a game.

To explain trust, the quarterback, in a sense, is blind. Due to the offense being about timing and quick decision-making, the quarterback sometimes has to throw to a pre-determined spot. More so in Walsh’s system, among other WCOs, the receiver would often have his choice of route to run based on the defense’s coverage. The receiver and quarterback often have to recognize this together, or else the ball will be thrown in a different spot than where the receiver actually is or, oddly enough, directly into a defender as if he never "saw" him. I assume this is starting to sound familiar, yes?

Yeah, this sounds like what I see on the field...so what kind of players fit the scheme?
Quarterbacks: The quarterback has to be extremely accurate, quickly scan the field, be willing to develop those close relationships with his receivers, and be able to roll out in a play-action, as the WCO has begun to incorporate more "moving pockets" to offset the increased speed of the modern NFL pass rush. In the traditional scheme, the quarterback should be getting the ball out of his hands within three seconds. It's a quick strike offense that starts with the quarterback. Outside of the Reid/Kyle Shanahan WCO, throwing the deep ball isn’t really needed all too much aside from the occasional shot downfield.

Running Backs: Like Roger Craig and Marshall Faulk, backs should be versatile enough to run, catch, and block. Good vision is a trait that's highlighted in the WCO because the horizontal passing game should stretch a defense out to open up running lanes. In the theoretically perfect zone-blocking WCO, the back's vision and decisiveness will be especially critical as he should have lanes to chose from.

Wide Receivers: Jerry Rice was never the biggest or fastest wide receiver, but he was the perfect receiver for this system. Rice was a masterful route-runner, incredible in his play recognition, and worked hard to communicate well with his quarterbacks. A good WCO WR will be able to run routes, find the open spaces in the defense, and put in the time to work with his quarterback so they can be on the same page.

Due to the short routes and idea to chip away at a defense, a receiver has to have dependable hands because a bobble or drop on a short pass is likely going to A) end drives or B) be intercepted by a nearby defender. Finally, you do need a receiver (at least one in the corps) who can quickly slip behind the coverage, as the play-action pass is often used as the knock-out punch in the WCO - more so in a Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan offense, as both typically favor the deep passes.

Tight Ends: Traditionally, the tight end was the last-option safety valve for the quarterback in this system. However, today's NFL has put more of an emphasis on the pass-catching tight end because of the mismatches he can exploit. The boon is that a tight end who can slip down the seam or on an out route (run about 3-6 yards and cut to the sideline) can turn a good WCO into a great WCO. Like the running backs, you'd like someone who can block especially as the one-back backfield becomes more prevalent league-wide. 

Offensive Linemen: Due to the emphasis on the three-step drop and quick decision making, the pass-blocking part of their jobs really should be easy. The quarterback should be kept clean so long as the ball is out of his hands. Otherwise, what kind of linemen you want really depends on which branch of the WCO that you want to run. Andy Reid is notorious for his love of larger linemen to push the pile. He usually has them above 300+ pounds. For Mike Shanahan and users of the zone-blocking system, they tend to prefer athletic linemen. In some cases this does mean smaller, but seeing large and nimble linemen is becoming more and more common.

So let's put it all together...
Perhaps more than anyone in today's NFL, Gary Kubiak tends to run a more traditional West Coast Offense. He's not run-heavy like Mike Shanahan or as vertical as an Andy Reid or Kyle Shanahan. The disappearance of the deep pass is, if you haven't gotten the indirect hint by now, directly related to Kyle's departure. Kubiak still incorporates the long pass some, but he tends to use it after he's set it up.

All those people calling for Arian Foster early and often? It contradicts the Walshian idea of passing to set up the run, which is used to ice games. It's a bit obvious, at least to me, that this is the kind of offense that Kubiak wants to run. It's why you see a lot more first-half passing - Kubiak's trying not to tinker too much with perfection.

A Walshian contradiction that happens from the team's side is how flat the Texans come out during The Script. It's probably the most damning criticism of this entire offense actually. Walsh's vision of The Script is for the offense to control the tempo, eliminate mistakes, and be polished. The Houston on-field product is anything but the ideal. It calls into question how the offense practices during the week. At the same time, the 2010 post-Script adjustments usually worked out well, so, on the surface, it appears that Kubiak and Rick Dennison have that part of The Script down.

Depth is a mild issue with the offense - especially evidenced when Matt Schaub or Andre Johnson miss any snaps. The idea of the system is that you shouldn't miss much of a beat if you scout properly and develop the talent. Quarterback, wide receiver, and the offensive line could still use some investment in back-up talent in my mind.

Starter-wise, this offense has a lot of ideal talent for the scheme. The only thing lacking is that second consistent threat in the receiving corps. It doesn't need to be spectacular, but someone else has to emerge to take advantage of the near-triple coverage on Johnson and stretch the defense more than it already is. If someone steps up into this role, this offense would be near unstoppable.

In a nutshell, that's the West Coast Offense. Hopefully, this has expanded some football knowledge in some while reminding others what we're supposed to be seeing as opposed to what we want. I admit, I may have been pushing a bit too hard for a speedy receiver. Still, whenever the offense comes out passing now, you'll know that it's all part of the plan...or you'll continue to criticize Kubiak and Dennison.  What do I know?

If you're interested in looking at a standard playbook, feel free to click here

Comment 177 comments  |  17 recs  | 

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nice, TDC... rec'd

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 13, 2011 8:16 AM CDT reply actions  

2nd the motion

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on May 13, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Interesting-Re: Kyle Shanahan and the deep ball

I do not know the answer to this but I want to know your thoughts. What are the numbers on the K. Shanahan effect on deep ball production? (Apologies if this is in a previous post I missed). The reason I ask is AJ’s health. He’s the best deep threat guy on the team and last year his wheels weren’t right for most of 2010, playing with an injury that makes mortal humans miss more games. There were passes thrown deep that normal AJ would get but hurt AJ didn’t. Given his ankle, I wouldn’t take too many deep shots either.

by StephS on May 13, 2011 8:31 AM CDT reply actions  

That's a good point and question

I know Rivers addressed it somewhat in this SBNH post here.

I’m going off a pure eye test on this. The missing statistic though is the comparison to 2009. If someone had the PFF subscription, they could find Schaub’s deep ball statistics and quantify this out for everyone.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 13, 2011 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

/cue PB

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on May 13, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see it broke down in way that my lazy ass can easily find it

Just looking at his PFF grade on passes of 20+ yds his numbers are pretty consistent from 09 to 10. They just broke down all the deep passes in this article:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/10/going-deep/

I will need to look if they have that break down for 09 somewhere.

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on May 13, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

I know before the revamp

They had it in a player’s profile…somewhere buried.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 13, 2011 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

True

This is the thing that kept lingering in my head throughout the whole season. I kept wondering if AJ and Schaub just weren’t on the same page or if schaub’s arm just wasn’t strong enough which seems weird since I dont recall that being a problem in 09

by jags52982 on May 13, 2011 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree^^^

My attitude is like a virgin......I dont give a fuck!

by The Abrego on May 13, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yep

Teh Schaub doesn’t have elite arm strength, but he makes up for it with vision and accuracy.

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 13, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

Schaub's deep ball

Looks like he is trying to throw a Zeppelin.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I remember two or three times last season where there'd be hardly any time left in the first half

and they’d run a play where andre would run five yards then cut across the middle as he catches the ball. then of course he’d get blasted by a linebacker.

and then two plays later they’d give up on the last minute drive and kneel the clock away.

drove me bonkers every time.

by Calvinball on May 13, 2011 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Me too.

It was crazy

A Texas Wannabe, born and raised in New Zealand. Currently located 7343miles South west of Houston.

by distant_texans_fan on May 13, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

this also bothered me a lot

but they should have sat him during the Redskins game, once it happened (yeah, yeah, l know), then given him 2-4 weeks of rest, not IR. All he needed was a few weeks off.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

There's a good biography of Walsh that came out a few years back

Called the The Genius, I think. Very enjoyable. The most interesting part to me was that Walsh initially developed the offense in part to overcome talent deficiencies in his personnel. His first job was actually with the Raiders- and obviously they favored more of a vertical passing game.

Needs more nose tackle.

by JimboTexan on May 13, 2011 9:15 AM CDT reply actions  

Solid Explanation of the WCO

There is something that jumped at me when watching Andre Johnson highlights though. I noticed several plays where teh Schaub did a bootleg to the left. I do not remember seeing it at all last year. Once again, this could be a health issue, as we know Matt was injured for a large part of the year also.

I always wondered why the team seems flat during the “script.” I am wondering if maybe they over-practice the script to the point that it seems monotonous to the players. I have no idea, but that is an issue that needs fixed.

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 13, 2011 10:25 AM CDT reply actions  

As far as The Script goes

A veteran offense shouldn’t look like that at all…especially if they’re practicing correctly. It’s puzzling really.

Personally, I would move to go no-huddle for the scripted plays since they should have an idea of what they’d like to run. They could be doing a much better job of controlling the tempo and maybe that would wake the offense up a bit.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 13, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I have long advocated the no huddle to start games

It couldn’t hurt to try

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 13, 2011 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

That would defeat the point of the script

It is not the point to “blitz” the Defense off the field. It is to give them a look and see how they are coached to react to it. You have to give them time to see exactly what you want so you can then pick plays later in the game that will exploit the weaknesses shown.

A Texas Wannabe, born and raised in New Zealand. Currently located 7343miles South west of Houston.

by distant_texans_fan on May 13, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

True

It would defeat the purpose of the script

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 13, 2011 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could it possibly be attributed to a crappy script?

"////let it pan out before you kick da plan out\\"
-mitmil22

by theSpaceCityKid on May 13, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't know if the script was scrappy, or if it was just to repetive

The big reason for the script is to see how defenses are going to react to certain things so you can try and pin down what their game plan is and attack it. I’ve wondered before if other teams had a pretty good read on what the Texans script was going to look like. I’m sure Kubiak just didn’t use the same 20 plays every time, but I wonder if he subconsciously had some pattern that teams picked up on.

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on May 13, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

could it be as simple as a DC operating out of confusing sets

through Kubes script?

"////let it pan out before you kick da plan out\"
-mitmil22

by theSpaceCityKid on May 13, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

it could

but l insist that it all boils down to the fact that our opponents usually expected that we would have to beat them with our offense carrying the entire load

which we were also aware of, thus the weird/repetetive/rigid scripts

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

That playbooks not from houston right?

I don’t ever remember running a wish bone…

by Carter Liles on May 13, 2011 10:40 AM CDT reply actions  

No

Not from Houston. While some plays reminded me of what I’ve seen….others don’t….just a basic WCO playbook though. Houston definitely could run some wishbone though if they wanted to.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 13, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry kinda off topic

But just watched 1st and half the 2nd season of Archer and I have to say that is some funny shit. I had heard people talk about it but never checked it out. I have read a lot comments here about it that made me decide to watch. Laughed my ass off, thanks BRBrs (who watch the show and rec to watch).

by ketchuppants7 on May 13, 2011 11:39 AM CDT reply actions  

You're welcome, Internet

:-)

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on May 13, 2011 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'll just continue to criticize Kubiak the Implimenter.

Bill Walsh was an innovator.

Mike Shanahan, Kubes’s mentor, was an innovator.

Kubiak is just an implimentor and hasn’t really proven to be a good HC, either.

Shanny, he took the WCO and using the zone block system turned it to a more running based offense. Hence the term Denver West Coast Offense. Shanny went heavy with the run and where the WCO used outs to the WR’s and short drags or slants to the TE underneath to open the outside lanes and the run, he used the QB boot to setup more misdirection plays to open up the run and play-action deep.
Unfortunately for Shanny, I believe he became arrogant and fell for all the hype from the media that they could plug in any RB and be successful. That and a declining defense, sound familiar, led to the Porter/Bailey trade. Couple that with the rule change on the chop blockin 2006 and that pretty much was the demise of the DWCO in Donkeyland.
The first year the chop-block was made illegal Denver still “finessed”(hid) it to cut off the backside of run plays. Plus the refs were still not used to flagging it, IMO, so Denver was able to still have some success with the run.
The following year the Donkeys could no longer finesse and get away with the chop and their running game went down the toilet. Add the still terrible D and a 7-9 season and that was the demise of Shanny.

Kubiak just implimented the system he was schooled under. He hasn’t really changed or added anything to the offense. I do think he has some of that arrogance from Denver, though.
Maybe it was Kyle’s fault, maybe not, since Kube’s is the HC. But the ‘09 season when we were one of the top passing teams in the league I remember a lot of 3-and-outs after trying to continually run the ball instead of going to underneath routes, staying with what was working and trying to set the run up. That would be directly from the WCO Strategy. What I saw was more DWCO w/o a working running game.
 Maybe a new wrinkle to the passing game would have helped but that would have taken some innovation.
Wait, maybe you can call the HB Option a new wrinkle. ("That one’s on me")

TDC hit the nail on the head in regards to the #2 WR. Where SF had the Rice/Taylor/Young/Craig combo and Denver Smith/McCaffrey/Sharpe/Davis, we have Johnson/Walter/Daniels/Foster.
Kevin Walter is more a poor man’s McCaffrey. A good posession rec. More a #3 but not close to Taylor or even Dwight Clark.
Finding Foster was a big key. Hopefully last season was not a fluke and we have good depth at RB if Tate proves to be good. But we need to have a better #2 WR.
Either Jones gets his head out of his ass, or Dickerson come on strong we may be okay. If not they need to find a FA or make a trade to finally get this O in top gear.

That and take Kube’s chart and headset away on gameday.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 13, 2011 12:29 PM CDT reply actions  

Let me add this.

In case any of the Kubiak fans get upset at my post.

I get that Schaub is not Montana/Young or Elway. But teh Schaub is a gamer and has proven to be a very good QB in this system. Maybe not as mobile as desired but capable. Also, for the kids who may not know or remember, The Young I listed in the 49er combo was not Steve but the TE Charlie Young who was no slouch.

Now to the point that TDC makes about Kubiak running more of a WCO. Last year under Dennison it seemed we were trying to run more of a DWCO version of the WCO. Or more plainly, the WCO strategy using the DWCO passing game and boots with short and med passes. More like a hybrid of the 2 systems which stalled until they had to open it up bcause they were behind in most games.

When Kyle was here it was more a straight DWCO w/o a running game. Last year we find a running game, i.e. Indy game #1, and then we go to the WCO Strat of passing to run.

You can blame the OC’s but it’s still the same HC and it seems to me that Kubiak doesn’t seem to know what’s going on on either side of the ball.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 13, 2011 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

We where a top 5 offense

I don’t get what you are complaining about

You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view--until you climb into his skin and walk around in it.

by nolander on May 13, 2011 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well, back in '09 we were a top 3 ranked offense.

What did that get us? 9-7 and nowhere but one win shy of the PO’s.

Kubiak and the little Shan kept trying to run the ball. After Slaton was ineffective and then fianally hurt/benched/doghoused they tried to run the ball by committee without much success till they let Foster have the rock in the last 2 games. After the loss to BESF’s on Mon night it was pretty much a moot point as far as the season went. This isn’t ancient history.

Most of the 09 season I was hoping they would open up the short pass game instead of trying to run it. I know kubiak didn’t want to expose Schaub to injury but our passing game seems to rely on medium to deep routes or slow developing plays like the boot.
If you watched the Montana 49ers, they liked to throw to Young on a quick slant over the middle with a WR running a deeper slant or quickout. 2 steps and the ball was gone. After flooding the middle they’d hit Craig on a swing to the flat, or in the A gap,etc. That was pretty much the 49er WC running game. Something the Texans could’ve easily executed but never did.

Last year the Offense was good but not consistant enough to be a competitive PO caliber unit. Running more and keeping drives alive longer would have went a long way in keeping our miserable D off the field and continually being in the hole. But its all about being balanced on the run/pass with Kubes. Well trying to stay balanced got his unit more time on the bench and our biggest weakness more exposure.

That falls on the coaching staff, which Kubiak Heads.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 13, 2011 6:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

No.

Seriously – you can nit pick the offense all day long, but the problem remains the defense. This offense is most definitely a playoff caliber unit. Is it perfect? No. But it has been strong now for years and making it even better is not what will make the difference for this organization. On offense, more of the same is a good thing. The FO is focusing on what they need to win.

by WhiskeyR on May 13, 2011 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Well, this blog is about Offense.

Still, whenever the offense comes out passing now, you’ll know that it’s all part of the plan…or you’ll continue to criticize Kubiak and Dennison.

I’m criticizing now.

 I know our D sucked and was the problem last year and I’m not saying we can’t win with our offense. I’m saying the way the offense has been run is still a problem.

You’re being myopic if you think an offense that continues to disappear for 2 qtrs a game or only scores a couple FGs in a half is going to go far in the POs. We’d need the D to be a top 5 unit this year to have a chance at sucess if the offense plays the way it has the past couple years.

Still, whenever the offense comes out passing now, you’ll know that it’s all part of the plan.

What I said above about a hybrid of the WCO and DWCO is that mixing the 2 strats won’t work well, IMO. Something Kubiak or Dennison doesn’t get.
The offense will be good but will be prone to lapses and negative plays like we have seen in the past.

Walsh’s philosophy the 49ers passed the ball and wore a D down. If he had wanted to be a running team I have no doubt the 49ers could’ve pounded the ball. Rodger Craig and Tom Rathman were beasts. Walsh used a short passing game in lieu of, and to set up, the run for later in the game.

Shanahan wanted to run the ball. Passing was more intermediate. Moving the pocket, misdirection and set up play action for a deep strike. This is what our, the Texans, offense is set up as. Trying to throw medium passes with 7-8 in the box will get Schaub killed. You either run the ball or spray it around short to loosen or tire the D, or go verticle. We can’t do verticle well with Walter at #2.

Maybe they will surprise me this year and run an offense that plays to our strengths and works around the weaknesses. We definnately have the pieces to put it together and they have shown they can put a good gameplan together. They just need to do it consistantly. If not, then they need to fix the weakness or alter the strat and not crawfish between the 2 systems.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 14, 2011 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well if you like 8-8 continue to be content

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 14, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

An offense that stalls for 3/4s of a season is a problem.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 14, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Seaborn does have a point guys.

I know we all seen the O look bad, like they have no idea what to do, but come in the second half they got it going, or vise versa. Offense has it promblems too.

by southpaw70 on May 14, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Not buying it SP...

Anything that is conceived of by human beings is going to have SOMETHING that can be criticized, so it is not impressive in the least to just look around until you find that thing and then start banging on it with a hammer.
“No one ever erected a statue to a critic.”
The point is that this organization already has/had the talent and experience to find the flaws in an offense and fix ’em. What has been less apparent is any real skill in building a defense and with the addition of Wadeolicious, I think that there is real reason to have hope at this point in the process (at least).
But I respect and defend the rights of everyone to have a negative-assed perspective on the team and to express it at length.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 14, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Thanks, southpaw.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 15, 2011 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

yea no problem

i mean i really think we are in for a rude awakeing this year. Our D will be better but, to not help the Offense at all is crazy. I mean we still have free agency and maybe we will see what happens, but if we go back out this year with same O, it is going to be crazy. Yes we are getting Owen back, but for how long? Yes we getting tate back and i still hope he turns out good, but we will not know until then. If we lose Vonta then i promise our O might be worst guys. I know guys have said to just plug in Casey, well there is a problem with that he is not a fullback. I understand people saying he is more of a H back which is fine but we don’t need a H back in a west coast offense.

by southpaw70 on May 15, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stats can sometimes be fun!

Per Football Outsider:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamoff

*Note where GB is

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

*Note where GB and PIT are

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 15, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Additional Info

*Not where HOU is on the defensive stats

Correct Answer: 31st

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 15, 2011 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed and rec'd for it...

My biggest “the buck stops here” complaint about Kubiak is that after trying one “project” defensive coordinator, I think that he should have gone out and gotten a known talent to handle the defense. However, I gotta’ say that timing is everything and I am THRILLED that Wade became available and that McSmithiak were smart enough to grab him. With the combination of Kubiak running the offense and Wadeopotamus running the defense I think that we could have some consistently good teams. If we can ever get a season going, I’m very hopeful.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 13, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

I gotta say though… I can’t wait for 2012. If Wade is as advertised we may be actual contenders by then.

by WhiskeyR on May 13, 2011 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Running Shannahan's Offense.

I think more credit goes to Elway and Davis in those 2 seasons. Let’s not forget Davis had over 2k yds back in ‘93. So trying to run the ball when you have a horse shoudn’t have been foreign to Kubes.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 13, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry, I'm not buying that entirely

Having Elway, yes that was definitely something the Broncos benefited from, but you have to give credit where credit is due. If we’re going to flame Frank Bush for his historical failures as an NFL DC, then we must be willing to give Kubiak credit for his accomplishments as an OC. You don’t just hold that job, on a back to back SB team, by accident. Yes, Shanny was a big reason for that success as well, but what has he won since Kubiak left him? Meanwhile, we’ve got a consistent top 5 offense in Houston.

I think the man knows offense pretty well.

 

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 13, 2011 7:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maddox wasn't going to get them to the SB.

And Kubes was running Shanny’s offense the way it was designed to be run.

Like I said Kubiak is an implimenter not an innovator.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 14, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

seeing as how Maddox was long gone

I agree, it would have been quite innovative, to find a way to win a Super Bowl with him.

Shanahan built a very solid roster and staff in Denver. Complete teams win Super Bowls, and they were a complete team. Suffice it to say they wouldn’t have gone as far with, say, Bubby Brister or Jeff Lewis. But would any staff or team go far with one of those quarterbacks? That’s not an indictment, it’s nit picking.

And you’re absolutely nit picking by condemning Houston’s offensive performances under Kubiak, as they’ve always had to overcompensate for their own defensive unit. That alone goes a long way towards explaining slow starts, strange scripts, or anything else really.

This offense has been overcompensating, with an eye on its own defense, as well as the opposition’s. The fact that we’ve had three out of five seasons at .500 or better, and realize we’ve done that in a highly competitive conference and division, all without a defense to speak of… while it hasn’t been ideal, it has surely been innovative. Not that we necessarily had a John Elway or Terrell Davis during our more successful seasons, either!

by Cut Block on May 15, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

well said

+1

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 15, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

while l'm at it

Didn’t Walsh, and anyone who’s used his scheme since, use mobile quarterbacks? Matt Schaub is not very mobile, methinks.

Oh, that “Kubes”, he’s no innovator! :-P

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

Schaub is totally mobile

I send him dirty pics of my cawk in crocs. signed Brett Favre

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 16, 2011 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

I thought Schaub was adequately mobile...

He seems to run the bootleg pretty effectively. He’s no Steve Young, but he’s not Drew Bledsoe either.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

l agree that he's adequate

I just have a hard time remembering a QB in this offense who was at his level of immobility

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Was Montana a scrambler?

I’m trying to remember… I just remember him passing the snot out of it…

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 2:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Mobile enough to do a bootleg

but he never really took off downfield.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 16, 2011 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

where is the bledsoe GIF

I can’t not laugh at it!

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 16, 2011 2:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

Without Elway at QB...

Shanny has 1 playoff win. True story.

'You're not wrong, Walter. You're just an @sshole.' - The Dude

by EasyT367 on May 16, 2011 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

You are so awesome.

This post was to expand people’s knowledge about the kind of offense we run, yet you find a way to rant and complain.

AWESOME.

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 14, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

Are there limits

to someone’s post? It took me an hour to read something that had no validity or substance. I’m sorry, Seaborn. You’re officially on my do not read list for wasting my time.

2011 Crystal Ball
Dorin Dickerson coming out party

by BRBUSAFTexan on May 14, 2011 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Best way to do it.

Remember their username.

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 15, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

waaah

2009: waaah We run the ball too much! Result: top 5
2010: waaah Why aren’t we running the ball more! Result: top 5
2011: ???
Profit!

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

I have been advocating a speedy hands guy since 2 seasons ago

The had Davis but he was put on the back burner…. same may happen to DD….Not that he is that fast but is a great route runner and solid hands…Jeff Maehl of Oregon may be a great UFA to go after.

Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!

by TEXSON on May 13, 2011 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

Excuse me for raining on the Kubiak love parade.

I never said our O sucked. I’m not satisfied with it either.

You can blame the D all you want for this team’s lack of sucess. As HC Kubiak is responsible for that side of the ball, also.
Blame Bush, and Smith before him, all you want. Blame R. Smith for the personnel, or lack thereof. To me it’s all a moot point since Kubiak was the one who hired them.
You want to throw some blame on McNair I might buy into that.

I was happy when they hired Kubiak. In hindsight of the C&C debacle I wished McNair had hired Kubiak the first time around. I really do hope he has success this year but he needs to address his definciancies, too.

Bottom line, 5 years in this era of the NFL is an eternity.
Kubiak has had 5 years on the job and with a top ranked O he has only a 9-7 season to show for his time here.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 15, 2011 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

"As HC Kubiak is responsible for the side of the ball, also"

But we’re talking about Kubiak’s offense here.

Just in case you forgot.

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 15, 2011 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, lets stay with the offense.

When they need a win in crunch time to make the season they play flat. Whether at home or on the road.

2008: After the 1st 4 win streak in our history, they could have had the 1st winning season by beating 2 weaker teams left on the schedule. They went to Oak, one of the worst teams in the league that year, and scored a whopping 16 pts.

2009: 6-4, playing Ten at home on Mon night after a bye week, home field advantage the best since the inaugural game aginst Dal. We scored 17 with a goose egg in the 4th. (I won’t even get into the mistakes on the last 2 drives that failed. Brown’s missed FG’s not withstanding)
We ended up going on a 3 game losing streak against division opponents where just 1 win would have secured a wildcard spot. (We put up a whopping 18 against the kittys)

2010: Shutdown by Dal and NYG, 13 and 10 pts. We put up only 17 against Ind and Ten on the 2nd go round but there was nothing really to play for except pride maybe. At least they battled through a tough schedule in the end. I’ll give them that..

You can cite all the stats you want but unless they’re coupled with results in the win column they are fairly useless, just a footnote.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 15, 2011 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh shit, I gotta goo this

Damn, Jordann. That’s probably the best argument I’ve seen you make since I’ve been here.

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 15, 2011 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm just not as passionate about arguing as much as I used to.

Instead of picking apart arguments, I opt for the “disarm with humor” approach nowadays.

Im glad you still understood because there were time that I would hit back space and instead of waiting for the whole word to be deleted, I start typing just to keep up with my mind which makes some sentences incoherent.

That’s why I want an edit button, dammit!

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 16, 2011 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't have access to all the neat stats.....

but I would be interested in how many games league wide were won by under 20 pts in any one season really, but specifically those three since those are the ones being picked apart.

Would there be anyway someone could find that stat w/out to much trouble?

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on May 17, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

this isn't the precise answer to your question

but l believe the average NFL team gives up about 350 points over a season, or about 21 ppg

what did we average last year, something like 26 or 28 per? (which factors in our shutout of Rusty Tits)

by Cut Block on May 17, 2011 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I read that right....

our efense allowed 26 to 28 pts a game. Which like you said, while not precisely what I was looking for, does support my point about Jordann’s post….and the point of this whole discussion, our offense has no problem putting up “league average” ppg.

NOW, if only our efense could hold our opponents to the league average we would be in the games; even the Dallas and NYG game referenced to start this discussion. What I’m getting at is, though I could do without the drama, it doesn’t matter how or when our offense puts up those league average points, it would still be a game. And if the efense was any kind of competent, we would have the ball more often giving us more chances of scoring and the opponent less chance of scoring.

In short, we are all saying the offense is definitely NOT the problem, they score very near the league average every game…..it’s our efense that allows the opponent to score well above that average that has sunk more than one game.

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on May 18, 2011 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just for the record...

The offense gave up 7 of those 21 in the fourth against Indy in ’09. I mean, sure, someone on the D could have pulled a Tommy Lewis, but I believe that kind of behavior is frowned upon by the “establishment”.

by NWestTexan on May 17, 2011 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

"Kubiak has had 5 years on the job and with a top ranked O he has only a 9-7 season to show for his time here."

But you forgot where the defense ranked.

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 15, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's look at the parallels in the last 5 years.

Saints :3-13 to our 2-14 in 2005-won the SB last year.

Packers: we were able to beat them on the Tundra in 2008. In 2 years they revamped their D and with a patchwork running game and a potent pass attack-won the SB this year.

Lions: 0-16 in 2008. O and friggin 16!! We’ll have to wait and see but last year they played in a division with GB and Chi who vied in the NFC Championship. They drafted behind us this year.

We regressed.

At least these turnarounds can give us hope.

People tell me, ‘Oh, you just drink to escape your problems.’ Well, no shit. I’d eat rat heads if it let me ditch my problems."

by Seaborn1 on May 15, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

ya didn't the Saints defense

lead the league in takeaways that year? I’m sure that played no part in their success.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

From what I recall, yes.

If it wasn’t for their defense, they wouldn’t have gotten past the ViQueens.

Capt. Nately: You're a shameful opportunist! What you don't understand is that it's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Old man in whorehouse: You have it backwards. It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees. I know.

-Catch 22-

by Jordann on May 16, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I seem to remember the same thing.

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on May 17, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Just correcting something here

Charle Young played 3 seasons in San Francisco and never played with Jerry Rice.

Dwight Clark and Brent Jones were the prominent 80s 49ers TEs.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 15, 2011 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

LMAO

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 15, 2011 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

Stats

They only count on offense.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

further correction

“West Coast Offense” was originally the nickname of Sid Gillman’s deep-passing scheme. Al Davis, Mike Martz, and Norv Turner, still utilize variations of it today.

The term has commonly been used as the nickname for Walsh’s offense in more recent times, as well as any variations thereafter. The misnomer stuck, l guess. It probably confuses things even further, since Walsh had once worked on a Gillman staff?

Also, Walsh’s much copied philosophies are most commonly credited as offensive strategies, though he doesn’t get as much due credit for management, personnel, defensive/special teams, theory and strategy.

And make no mistake, Walsh was a very important innovator in many ways, furthering the sport of football into even more of a highly detailed science, but only through the implementation of plays, theories, and concepts of men before him, like Brown, Gillman, Halas, and so on.

This is an excellent write up, DC. Thank you. I’ve always respected your interpretation and knowledge of Walshian football, and it is no small task to put Kubiak’s version into such a nutshell of just a few paragraphs, with the result still being concise and focused enough for anyone to understand. Very impressive.

DC for OC!

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

Appreciate the kind words, CB

I had heard a quote somewhere that Gillman’s was the true WCO since he was on the west coast while Walsh’s horizontal game should have been the Midwest Offense or Great Lakes Offense since he really developed his schemes and strategies in Cincinnati.

It’s kinda funny though that Gillman’s offense is now known as Air Coryell….that guy gets no respect /dangerfield’d

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on May 16, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

l figured you were already aware of that.

I’m definitely guilty of perpetuating the misnomer, as well.

You can’t just say “Walshian football” or “Walsh Offense” today, without people becoming perplexed and asking, “don’t you mean the West Coast Offense”?

It is funny how history can be re-written sometimes.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

and speaking of Rodney Dangerfield

Now that Tom Moore has apparently retired, some folks are calling for him to become the first assistant-level coach to be enshrined in Canton. And l’m fine with that, though if it ever were to happen, ex 49er OL Coach (and ZBS creator) Bobb McKittrick is every bit as deserving.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

I question whether we should still be a pass to run team

Remember, Walsh created the WCO with the Bengals out of a lack of offensive talent. He didn’t have a running game and he didn’t have a very talented quarterback. Now Schaub isn’t a great deep ball passer, but if we open the game with Foster slashing the defense for 5-6+ runs repeatedly, maybe even running some power and counter instead of just the usual inside./outside zone, I feel like that could really bring the safeties in and make life easier on Schaub. Just my 2 cents.

by mr.manager on May 13, 2011 1:37 PM CDT reply actions  

For whatever reason...

 I don’t think Schaub has a long-ball arm. The comment has been made about Andre having to wait on long passes from Matt and I vividly remember Matt just underthrowing a wide-open Andre at least once last year.
It’s a chicken and egg thing… Does the offense look good because of the player talent or is the offense making the player talent look better than it is?

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 13, 2011 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Schaub's completion % on long balls was very good last year

They didn’t attempt that many. He doesn’t have the biggest arm, but I’m fine with his arm strength. He can make all the throws. On the bombs he sometimes flat out underthrows the WR, but that is not always because of his arm. At least some of the underthrows could be avoided if he just got rid of the ball a little sooner instead of waiting to be 100% sure. I can remember at least once being in stadium and a good portion of the fans gasping because they saw a WR getting open deep. Schaub appeared to be looking that direction but held the ball several more beats before letting it fly. It’s hard to say what his progression was, but if he made the throw sooner in that case he could have put it more out in front of the WR and let him go gt it.

Let me try and simplify my point. A big arm doesn’t do any good if you don’t have touch and timing.

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on May 13, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goo'd

Here’s an old t-shirt to wipe that off…

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on May 13, 2011 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Of course that is a BRB t-shirt... logo and all

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 13, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

The BRB shirt that Rip threw away?

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on May 13, 2011 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, the one that Tim gave him for the case of Zima

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 13, 2011 11:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here use this crackwhore.....instead..

Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!

by TEXSON on May 13, 2011 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Hmm..

I really wish Kurt Warner owned the top spot.

2011 Crystal Ball
Dorin Dickerson coming out party

by BRBUSAFTexan on May 14, 2011 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

The waiting to be sure could be the thing...

I’m no Schaub basher by any measure… I’m just a firm believer in the Clint Eastwood movie quote “A man’s just gotta’ know his limitations…”
Just for fun I like to imagine that he delivered the line like Dr. Frankenfurter in Rocky Horror…
“A man’s just got to know his limi-… TAYshuns.”

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 13, 2011 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

exactly

theres times I look at Dre… then look back at Schaub and say to myself “it looks like he sees him!?” and then he will FINALLY chunk it and Dre ends up having to gear down

"////let it pan out before you kick da plan out\"
-mitmil22

by theSpaceCityKid on May 13, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Montana didn't exactly have a cannon arm either

And I think it’s safe to say he was the best WCO QB of all time. So it’s not absolutely necessary to be successful in this system. Now, if he had been asked to play in a vertical passing game like the Raiders have been historically known for, I don’t think he would’ve had the same success.

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 13, 2011 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only thing that bothers me about his noodle arm

Is it is holding back AJ’s eventual hall of fame TD stats.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

l disagree.

He may not be the ideal QB, but he doesn’t exactly hold AJ’s stats back. Every situation is different, and Schaub puts AJ in the End Zone at times other QBs wouldn’t.

Now David Carr, on the other hand, he held back AJ’s TD production.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

He's not hurtin AJ's catchs

but there are several deep balls a year that would be TDs for AJ but he has to slow down for them allowing the DB to catch back up. His accuracy is great for the short stuff, but that ball just hangs up there when he goes deep. So over the long run I think it hurts AJ’s total TD numbers. Its not a deal breaker, but it is a negative he has.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

l undersood your logic.

I just have a different expectation about what may happen differently.

Now, if we’re talking about Schaub improving his deep ball greatly, of course AJ benefits.

AJ and Schaub hardly have poor TD totals, though. Again, l agree he isn’t fully maximized, but so few NFL players will ever be. And there really aren’t many QBs out there, that could actually improve Andre’s TDs while also focusing on the actual job at hand -winning games. Brady comes to mind. Rodgers. Peyton. Brees. Other than those four (and l’m not meaning that Brees or Rodgers tend to go deep), l wouldn’t expect much change in the TD accumulation if we’re replacing Schaub, nor if we sent AJ away.

But if we’re merely switching Schaub with some random Bazooka, it’s just not that cut and dry. Even the noted deep ball QBs have to find other ways into the End Zone. Brady to Moss was a rare case of a duo constantly connecting on bombs, and even they never came close to repeating their deep TD blitz of ’07.

I will say this, in regard to your opinion. The quick scores off of deep passes to Andre more often might result in more drive opportunities overall, and thus more scoring chances overall. I just think that with even a good cannon arm like Rivers, the accumulation difference is probably negligible. And since you were talking about career leaders, l’m not sure if negligible is the result you’re after.

Of course this is all speculation and hypothesis, so l respect all opinions contrary to my own.

/.02

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

"noodle arm"?

Isn’t that just a bit over-stated?

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

MAN.................Why is football so great!

Offense, defense, special teams, formations, schemes, technique, positions, leverage, coverage, gaps, foot work, inches, penetration, eye/hand coordination, drop steps, back peddles, swim moves and bull rush. Inside, outside, screens, bombs, audibles, play action, fumbles and INT’s. Sacks, presure, timing, slants, curls, and spins. Dump offs, progressions, reads, instincts, power, goal to goal, and pay dirt………………….

My attitude is like a virgin......I dont give a fuck!

by The Abrego on May 13, 2011 3:31 PM CDT reply actions  

and so on and so on

My attitude is like a virgin......I dont give a fuck!

by The Abrego on May 13, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

For the longest time

The very first play in “the script” was always a quick slant to Andre. My wife used to get annoyed because I’d say here comes the quick slant. Like clock work. My guess is that was to get both Schaub and AJ off to a quick start to set the tempo you talk about.

They still do it a lot but at least they mix it up a little more now.

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 13, 2011 4:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Fuck Sam Wyche

Otherwise, fantastic article.

Should I be worried that I gave the 13th rec on Friday the 13th?

by LedTexan on May 13, 2011 6:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Suffer from triskaidekaphobia?

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on May 13, 2011 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

WRs the Texans should consider in free agency: 1. Terrell Owens, Bengals. Don’t laugh, Owens could boost an already stellar offense immeasurably. Though he’s 37, he still caught 72 passes and had nine TDs last year. There’s little harm in offering him a one-year deal. Texans RapidReports

WRs the Texans should consider in free agency: 2. Santana Moss, Redskins. The signing of Moss would re-unite Andre Johnson with his former Miami Hurricanes’ teammate. Though Moss is about to turn 32, he’s coming off one of the best seasons of his career — 93 catches and six TDs

WRs the Texans should consider in free agency: 4. Mike Sims-Walker, Jags. At 6-2, 214, he’s a big, physical receiver who could ease the pressure off Andre Johnson. The signing of Sims-Walker would also deprive the Texans’ AFC South rivals of their best receiver.

WRs the Texans should consider in free agency: 7. T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Ravens. Like Lance Moore of the Saints, Houshmandzadeh would be an upgrade for the Texans in the slot. While Houshmandzadeh’s numbers have declined the last two years, he could provide a veteran presence at a relatively cheap price. Texans RapidReports

WRs the Texans should consider in free agency: 10. Terrence Toliver, LSU. Surprisingly, Toliver wasn’t selected in last month’s draft. Though he isn’t a burner, he’s an effective route-runner, has great hands and can easily make an acrobatic catch. He proved it in the Cotton Bowl with three TDs against Texas A&M. Texans RapidReports

by southpaw70 on May 14, 2011 11:35 AM CDT reply actions  

I say houston

makes a move on Fitzgerald if AZ doesn’t pick up a QB… Larry next to Andre would be the ultimate one two knockout, schaub would just toss the ball in the air! lol. I say no to TO, maybe to Moss and MSW, housh is iffy.

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 14, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

And what the hell makes you think we could afford to pay them both?

The more likely move is getting Steve Smith from the Panthers if we’re talking about WRs. We could probably get him for Jacoby Jones & a 3rd or 4th round pick. He may be getting towards the end of his career, but he’s still a deep threat with great hands

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 14, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh I wasn't thinking long term with fitzy...

and I was just making a statement of pipe dreams i would love. Fitzy is sitting at the last year of his contract, if they get a qb he will stay in AZ, if they don’t he wants out, I know it will never happen, but god it would effin rock! I could see Santana opposite Andre, but MSW was hurt so often last year and a nonfactor for the most part.

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 15, 2011 4:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Damn Taco

I know how you feel but that will never happen.

by southpaw70 on May 15, 2011 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't know about giving up those picks.

I hope we get a pretty good WR in free agency. I know we are more worried about the D and we should be ,but don’t forget to upgrade the O too some.

by southpaw70 on May 15, 2011 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions  

Key thing to point out

I said a 3rd or 4th round pick. It would be one or the other, not both.

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 15, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes to

Santana Moss & Steve Smith (both of them)

NO to
Locker room negatives: TO, MSW, & Housh.
Besides we have Housh in K-Dub. They are the exact same player: tall, slow, & catch everything. The only difference is Housh is a little bitch. “Boohoo. They don’t throw it to me.” Shut up…

2011 Crystal Ball
Dorin Dickerson coming out party

by BRBUSAFTexan on May 14, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

The only way I see them getting a FA WR

is if they let Jacoby walk. If they resign him, there would be little chance of signing anything other than camp fodder. If there is a camp.

I wish we could hire coaches without "having grown up in Houston" being a job requirement.

by DaGoaT on May 16, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

He ass raped us in the Cotton Bowl!

And WTF did A&M’s defense go that game?

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on May 17, 2011 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

why would you not want T.O.?

unlike other old free agents we had, this dude plays his heart out on the field. It is nice to have somebody who cares about thier sport and team like he has. I am sorry guys i would be all over getting him for a year or two.

by southpaw70 on May 15, 2011 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not as passionately against T.O....

…as I once was, because I think he has figured out that since he isn’t the world-beater that he once was that he should have a nice big, thick, steaming bowl of shut-the-hell-up…
And I do agree that he plays hard and is a true pro athlete. The problem is, he REALLY has questionable hands… and as sick as most of us are of heartbreak and disappointment… I just have nightmares of TO breaking behind a secondary in the waning moments of a game, Schaub spotting him and miraculously releasing the ball in a timely manner so that it hits TO in stride… and TO dropping it.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 15, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is true

but i am pretty sure he makes it up later on in a game.

by southpaw70 on May 15, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think it was more of an issue earlier in his career

And, though that problem appeared once again while he was in Dallas, that gets the benefit of the doubt from me just because of the situation. haha

His hands and focus seemed fine in Buffalo and Cincy.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it was the leading the league in drops while at Dallas that stuck in my head...

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

they were incessant in SF the first few years, too

They looked more consistent at the end of his SF tenure, and in Philly. I assume it was a focus issue, but l’m taking a stab in there dark, for sure.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

The only reason that it stuck out to me was that he was mouthing off about being neglected...

…and then dropping the balls that came his way at a league-leading rate.
However, to reiterate, I think he’s figured out that he needs to be thankful for a paycheck and I actually think that the prospect of seeing teams having to choose between covering him and Andre would be kinda’ entertaining.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 2:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

yes, l agree with all of that

We’ll always see the highlight of his game winning TD catch for SF against the Packers in the playoffs, and while even Jerry Rice or AJ have fudged an easy catch or two in their careers, TO had four or five important drops in that game alone. The 49ers should have had that game well wrapped up. And this has been a reoccurring theme throughout TO’s career, of course.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

l guess he finally realized that at some point, he’s as ‘disposable’ as anyone else. His play and maturity level post Dallas at least makes you consider that he actually loves the game, knows he can’t play forever, and has fully put his mind on the task at hand finally (though l was surprised to see him catch all of his targets in that Super Bowl -his injury could have been an easy excuse).

For all the times l’ve laughed about TO’s follies, l’d be excited if Gary actually brought him here.

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thank you CB

i think getting him in here will benefit us alot, one thing i can say is if we lose vonta but pickup TO i will be ok, Someone has posted on here Arian long runs where when he did not have a fullback, so i can still see him running more cause teams have to worry about two WR’s now.

by southpaw70 on May 16, 2011 9:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

l dont think many of these concepts are related, SP

First of all, there is room for both players on a football team. Secondly, this offense really makes good use of fullbacks. Long runs aren’t the only type that should be, or are attempted. Even a no-gain can serve a purpose (gash the D with run blocking; eat clock; keep own defense fresh and healthy while doing the opposite to the opponent defense)

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 9:40 AM CDT up reply actions  

i agree both could come here.

I was just saying if we where to lose vonta it will not sting so much knowing we will have a pretty good receiving crew to go along with arian.

by southpaw70 on May 16, 2011 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but l didnt mean it in any financial way

I really dont believe one compensates for the other, not in Koobs’ offense. Balance is a necessary fact. It can be distributed differently, but at the end of the day balance does matter. Oh, and dont get me started on negativity towards our WR corps. They’re fine, man. They’re good. No one wants to hear me rail on about that any more…

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

re: the catches in the SuperBowl

I think his drops are due to a lack-of-concentration issue. And I think that when he was playing hurt, he KNEW he had to concentrate on execution and it showed.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

In other words....

so used to relying on physical talent alone he never really had to concentrate, until he was gimped up and had that talent muted?

Just my $.02
Even duct tape can't fix stupid

by txknight on May 17, 2011 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

So you are saying

A lot like Jacoby JOnes

My name is Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on May 15, 2011 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty much... but without the Jakespearian talents

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 15, 2011 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

one time

and to be truthful that pass was going to andre.

by southpaw70 on May 15, 2011 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Technically southpaw, if you read what I said...

I said the drop (in the hypothetical nightmare) happens in the waning moments of a game… There would be no “later on” in that scenario. Ball is dropped, game is lost, we have another bitter memory to file with Rosencopter and Q-Tip…
I’m not just dead set against TO coming in here for the right price, although I do cringe a bit about the amount of distraction that follows him around.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 15, 2011 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

ouch

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 15, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Night owl...

Could you imagine over the roar of the crowd you hear Fran Drescher laughing then realize it is just Kendra sitting in her private box and was told a blonde joke that goes right over her head. plus hank baskett aint no world beater!

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 16, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

true story!

"Taco Joe - the beacon of optimism" TexansDC
"Great, you've doomed us all!" - UprootedTexan
God blessed Texas, but he has forsaken the Texans

by Taco Joe on May 16, 2011 12:49 AM CDT up reply actions  

you would think so.

but then again you suppose to catch with your hands.

by southpaw70 on May 16, 2011 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

Last I checked, Kendra was the best catch of his career

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 16, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions  

the question is did he catch her.....

or did she catch him, cause you know kendra loves some football.

by southpaw70 on May 16, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

He had to have caught her

It’s not like she didn’t or couldn’t have better options

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 16, 2011 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

besides

I heard she likes to wear bear suits

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

You sure that wasn't "bare" suits?

Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid

by The Night Owl on May 16, 2011 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

What is this?

This lovely creature favors the suit of the Panda?
Just when I thought that I couldn’t POSSIBLY fawn over her digital image any more, you inspire me to heights of imagination previously unattainable.
Just imagine those legs peeking from the bottom of a Panda suit and…


gotta’ go…

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

now, now

you need another holiday

by Cut Block on May 16, 2011 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

synergy in action

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on May 16, 2011 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

/laughing

So circumspect… so coy… I love it.

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL

I saw an opportunity to use them all in one shot, so I took it.

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 16, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ugh

I just realized I LOL’d a reply title. Somebody ban me please.

I'm a man!! I'm forty!!

by Hydroshock on May 16, 2011 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Done

If the Treasury Secretary doesn't have to pay taxes, then why do I?

by Shake on May 16, 2011 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Uh... is that bad form?

"In conclusion, I’d like to say that Dicky Justice is an assclown."
"...your in-house hirings on the defensive side suck donkey balls..."
- tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on May 16, 2011 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

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