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Past As Prologue: What Hath Wade Wrought?

I don't think that's how Peyton does it.

[Author's note: I started writing this before I knew what Vega was going to post.  It's not that we're piling on here; this just struck both of us as an interesting question, and we took slightly different approaches, so I'm posting my version, too. --M]

In the days since it became definite that Peyton Manning would not be under center on September 11, a couple different narratives have taken shape.  The first was the position that, without Manning, the Texans have a very, very good chance to win the game Sunday.  This seemed very logical; after all the Colts' offense centers on Manning's preternatural ability to read defenses, change the play at the line, and get rid of the ball with his laser-rocket arm.  His talents mask problems such as not having a running game1 or not having a solid O-line.  And, because the Colts' defense is built to play with a lead, the loss of Manning could even affect that unit negatively.

In the last couple days, however, a counter-narrative has gained traction --- that the Colts might not be as explosive without Manning, but they will still be a good team because Collins is a good, veteran QB who can run the offense and surprise some teams.  At the risk of understating things, I'll say that this seemed less logical.  The Colts' offense doesn't run on a "solid, veteran QB."  It centers on the mutant abilities of one of the five best QBs of all time, and it is so exquisitely tailored to his skill set, you could call it a bespoke offense, were you so inclined.

So, presented with these two different stories, I figured it might be worth looking at history to see which theory made more sense.  As you might recall, back in early August, when Manning still had 24 separate vertebrae, we took a look at what Wade Phillips had done in his first years with the various teams on his resume.  I enjoy posts like that because, even acknowledging that what happened in the past does not dictate what will happen in the future, the overarching trends can roughly sketch in the best- and worst-case scenarios.  Sure, there's no guarantee that this team will play at a level similar to past Phillips defenses, but when has anything ever been guaranteed?2 Well, other than Joe Willie Namath's famous guarantee, I suppose.

With that in mind, and with the question of how the Colts -- sans Fivehead -- will fare, I thought it might be interesting to take a look at Wade's track record, both against Kerry Collins and against the Colts with Manning.  After all, that's the big question mark in all of this, right?  How will Kerry Collins fare against a new-look Texans defense?  Does his track record against Wade Phillips, even adjusted for talent around him, look similar enough to Manning's record against Phillips that we can honestly think that the Colts will be (more or less) fine?

Star-divide

Just a reminder, as is relevant to this post, The Wade Phillips Experience tour schedule has looked like this:

Over that time, Kerry Collins appeared in 10 games against a Wade Phillips defense, starting nine of them and compiling a less-than-stellar 1-8 record in those starts.  His game-by-game performance breaks down thusly:

Team/Year Comp-Attempts Passing Yards TD INT W/L
CAR 1995 0-2 0 0 0 N/A
NOR 1998 3-12 23 0 1 Loss
NYG 1999 23-44 240 1 1 Win
NYG 2002 20-31 204 1 1 Loss
NYG 2003 25-40 202 0 2 Loss
OAK 2004 24-39 263 1 2 Loss
OAK 2004 18-30 227 2 0 Loss
OAK 2005 24-48 292 0 1 Loss
OAK 2005 22-40 236 1 1 Loss
TEN 2006 6-19 57 0 2 Loss

HTML Tables

You'll forgive me if Collins' track record against Phillips' defenses doesn't exactly leave me afeared3. Only once has he put up 2 TDs in a game, whereas he's been blanked in that department four times. Only once has he been INT-free, and he's thrown more than 1 INT in three contests. 

And that's not entirely because of a lack of talent around him.  Sure, the cupboard of offensive talent was pretty bare for the 1998 Saints, but the 1999 Giants had two WRs (Ike Hilliard and Amani Toomer) with over 70 catches, a TE (Pete Mitchell) with 58, and a RB (Tiki Barber) with 66.  The 2002 Giants were even better, with Toomer catching 82 balls for 1,343 yards, Barber catching 69 for 597 and adding 1,387 rushing yards, and Jeremy Shockey also hauling in 74 catches. The 2003 Giants had all of those same parts.  Heck, even the 2005 Raiders had Jerry Porter (76 catches), Randy Moss (60 for 1,005 and 8 TDs), and LaMont Jordan (70 catches for 563 plus 1,025 rushing yards).  Yet, despite having a decent amount of talent around him, Collins has scratched out only one win in nine starts against the Phillips-led Bills, Falcons, and Chargers.

Likewise, since Manning entered the league in 1998, Wade's teams have squared off against the Colts 10 times,4 going 5-5.  Manning's lines in those games look like this:

Year Comp-Attemps Pass Yards TD INT W/L
1998 20-41 235 2 2 Loss
1998 14-29 164 1 2 Loss
1999 21-33 284 2 2 Win
1999 18-29 163 0 0 Loss
2000 16-27 187 2 1 Win
2000 13-24 132 0 0 Win
2003 25-30 290 5 0 Win
2004 27-44 383 2 1 Win
2005 26-45 336 1 2 Loss
2010 36-48 365 2 4 Loss

HTML Tables

Manning has gotten his yardage over the last seven years, but he's also split those four games.  Which is to say that, even in a best-case scenario for the Colts (i.e., avec Manning), they've still only broken even against Phillips.  Worse still, at least from Indy's standpoint, they've dropped the last two to Phillips' defense.

What does all this mean?  Maybe nothing --- it could be that there's some as-yet-undiagnosed hole in the Texans' version of Wade's defense that will render all of this history more or less moot.  All the same, unless and until the Colts prove otherwise, it would seem that changing from Manning to Collins against Wade Phillips' defense represents a huge downgrade, both in talent and in the Colts' likelihood of winning.

****

1 Fun fact: Joseph Addai has two runs of 35 yards or greater ... in his entire career. Fun fact #2: Joseph Addai has 2 100-yard games in his last 43, dating back to 2007. The idea that Collins will be able to rely on the running game to take pressure off of him seems questionable at best and nuttier than squirrel turds at worst.

2 Also, how do you know the guarantee fairy isn't a crazy glue sniffer? "Building model airplanes" says the little fairy; well, we're not buying it. He sneaks into your house once, that's all it takes. The next thing you know, there's money missing off the dresser, and your daughter's knocked up. I seen it a hundred times.

3 Seriously, why do I keep randomly using early modern English? What's that? Because I'm a dork? Very well, then. Carry on.

4 I'm fudging a tiny bit here. Wade was fired before the Cowboys played the Colts last year. However, the Cowboys did not change their defensive style appreciably once Wade left, so this seemed like a valid game to include.

Comment 39 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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On the picture caption, That is how Tom Brady does it.... so,

maybe Collins joined up with the wrong team? Wade Phillips says, “Yes, he did.”

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on Sep 10, 2011 12:49 PM CDT reply actions  

i'd like to kno, in them games where its wades d vs peyton, what position in that defense gave the most trouble to the colts.

was it d wares position or another? also, how has jon jo done against reggie wayne in the past? the same for d. manning. just curious is all. good post btw. Rec’d

Im looking for divine and a lttle intervention
And birds dont fly without my permission
Im prolly in the sky, flyin with the fishes
Or maybe in the ocean, swimmin with the pigeons
See my world is different, like Dwayne Wayne
And if you want problem Bit#h, i want the same thang

by F-BombTheJets on Sep 10, 2011 1:06 PM CDT reply actions  

To answer your questions

1. I don’t have numbers for hurries/pressures, but Manning has been sacked by an OLB in these games 7 times, an ILB once, and a DE 5 times. Given where the Texans’ strengths lie, this seems like a good pattern.

2. Joseph has met the Colts once since becoming the Bengals CB1. It was last year, and Wayne was held to 3 catches for 32 yards and no TD.

3. Manning had 5 tackles and one assisted tackle in the Super Bowl against Manning in 2006, though most were in run support. The other time he faced Manning, it was more or less only as a kick returner.

by MDC on Sep 10, 2011 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

thanx brother. u answered the queston perfectly. ur right. numbers bode extremly well for us.

Im looking for divine and a lttle intervention
And birds dont fly without my permission
Im prolly in the sky, flyin with the fishes
Or maybe in the ocean, swimmin with the pigeons
See my world is different, like Dwayne Wayne
And if you want problem Bit#h, i want the same thang

by F-BombTheJets on Sep 10, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

we haven't really seen Wade D yet.

I believe Ole Wade has yet to show what our D can really do. But then I’ve been drinking bleach and eating beach pie for a long time now.

no matter how bad they play, no matter how stupid they act, I still love my texans!

by trutxfan on Sep 10, 2011 1:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Mario is saying, " I didn't do anything!"

/thought bubbles, “Got you suckah!!!”

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on Sep 10, 2011 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

quality grade A lulz sir.

"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution.. Take a bow for the new revolution..
Smile and grin at the change all around me.. Pick up my guitar and play..
Just like yesterday.. And I'll get on my knees and pray.. We don't get fooled again." - me to koobz

@doobieman21

youtube/chrisdogan

by chrisd21 on Sep 10, 2011 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

rec

no matter how bad they play, no matter how stupid they act, I still love my texans!

by trutxfan on Sep 10, 2011 1:31 PM CDT reply actions  

I want a Texans win and a Tits loss

To make the Titans fans STFU about their team winning this division. They really think it’s gonna be a piece a cake. They’re just loving what Lombardi predicted but the should’ve asked me what i thought. I would’ve told them that they suck.

Follow me on twitter: @Super_Stud2100

by Antho10000 on Sep 10, 2011 2:06 PM CDT reply actions  

no mystery there...

I wouldn’t ask you either if I was a BESF fan…

by Peckerwood on Sep 10, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Read a comment on SB saying Schaub is no better than Collins....

Understand that each team’s fans have their bias, but that’s going over the top.

Like saying Schaub is better than Peyton.

"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.

by bone31crusher on Sep 10, 2011 2:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Titans fans say Hasselbeck is better than Schaub

There must be some good ass dope in Tennessee

Follow me on twitter: @Super_Stud2100

by Antho10000 on Sep 10, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions  

No. Meth.

Matt Hasselbeck is done as a viable quarterback option. I say this based on my experiences watching him under center in Seattle. He just doesn’t have anything left.

Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.

Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.

I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!

Football is war by other means. - Carl von Clausewitz...sorta.

by UprootedTexan on Sep 10, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I went to Nashville this summer.

I now know why their fans use the logic that they do.

Only good thing that came from that trip was the food. Lots of carbs, but amazing nonetheless.

"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.

by bone31crusher on Sep 10, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

This week :)

Mario Williams will have 4 sacks and 1 int by Game 4 of the regular season.

by Barryfromtexas on Sep 10, 2011 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol nice pictures they are...

truly brilliant

All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.

by Mellowcheese on Sep 10, 2011 2:32 PM CDT reply actions  

I think...

The 2010 Colts vs Cowboys game where Peyton went 2TD/4INT Wade Phillips was already fired.

by jkcheng122 on Sep 10, 2011 2:54 PM CDT reply actions  

one thing i notice...

kerry was really throwing the ball alot in those games. is that because team could not run on wade’s D?

by southpaw70 on Sep 10, 2011 4:09 PM CDT reply actions  

prob a combo

of that and falling behind by a lot.

by jkcheng122 on Sep 10, 2011 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

That was a part of it.

99—Giants leading rusher has 77 yards on 20 carries.
02—Giants rushed for over 100 yards total, and moved the ball well enough on the ground, but just seemed to want to throw a lot.
03—Barber rushed for 120, but they fell behind early in the second half and tried to pass to catch up, to no avail.
04 (G1)—Chargers jumped out early and Raiders never tried to establish a running game.
04 (G2)—Chargers took early lead, Raiders pulled close, but they could not get a running game going at all.
05 (G1)—Chargers ran away with the game, Raiders never really tried to run.
05 (G2)—Raiders couldn’t get much on the ground, Chargers pulled away in the second half, and Oakland abandoned the run.
06—Titans couldn’t run, couldn’t pass, and Collins was benched for VY in the second half.

by MDC on Sep 10, 2011 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

i ask and i should receive huh MDC?

Thanks so those raiders years are when he went to the super bowl right? Had Jon gruden as a coach? When he was with the giants they had thunder and lighting and still lost. I think there is more to Wades D then we think.

by southpaw70 on Sep 10, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nah, he had Norv in Oakland

Post-Gruden and even post-Callahan. Eww. Still, there was talent. Wade just shut him down, as he has every time.

The Giants years were on either side of when that team went to the Super Bowl, so there was definitely ability there.

Nevertheless, I’m calling 5 sacks, 1 INT, 2 FF against Collins. We’ll drive him back to drinkin’.

by MDC on Sep 10, 2011 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm thinkin' that's more like a six inch putt...
We’ll drive him back to drinkin’.

"Suck it, Jim Tressel, you filthy, cheating, unfashionable piece of monkey scrotum."
- MDC
"Let’s leave all the football talk to knowledgeable experts who have played the game, like Matt Millen and Emmitt Smith."
-tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on Sep 10, 2011 6:27 PM CDT reply actions  

/sigh... reply fail... dammit, etc...

"Suck it, Jim Tressel, you filthy, cheating, unfashionable piece of monkey scrotum."
- MDC
"Let’s leave all the football talk to knowledgeable experts who have played the game, like Matt Millen and Emmitt Smith."
-tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on Sep 10, 2011 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Reply fail or not, I LOLed

You are correct; it’s a total gimme.

by MDC on Sep 10, 2011 6:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Colts beat down

ON sunday we And the league will all see what this theam has been building over the past 5 years we got a balln pass game Check Wegot a dope ass run game Check And finnaly this year we gwt the long awated nasty sick ass destroyer defence to top the cake maning or collins somebodys gonna get their ribs broke tomarrow!!!!!!! PLAYOFF TEXANS 2011-2012!!!! HELLYEA!!!!!!

by 8TO80 on Sep 10, 2011 11:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Damn, I was willing to bet.

We wouldn’t start getting them until we beat Miami…..

by CJ3m on Sep 10, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh no... the trickle started right after the lockout ended...

I expect the full out stampede soon.

"Suck it, Jim Tressel, you filthy, cheating, unfashionable piece of monkey scrotum."
- MDC
"Let’s leave all the football talk to knowledgeable experts who have played the game, like Matt Millen and Emmitt Smith."
-tehGrindCrusher

by DilloTex on Sep 11, 2011 6:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

What are you talking about?

Aren’t you a fan?

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on Sep 11, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

he got spirit at least

Im looking for divine and a lttle intervention
And birds dont fly without my permission
Im prolly in the sky, flyin with the fishes
Or maybe in the ocean, swimmin with the pigeons
See my world is different, like Dwayne Wayne
And if you want problem Bit#h, i want the same thang

by F-BombTheJets on Sep 11, 2011 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions  

I declare this the GAME DAY THREAD

The one above doesn’t work…..

I didn't do anything wrong!.... and, I won't do it again.

by Rip Jersey on Sep 11, 2011 8:13 AM CDT reply actions  

bfd made a new one

Mario Williams will have 4 sacks and 1 int by Game 4 of the regular season.

by Barryfromtexas on Sep 11, 2011 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nit

Both the Gamebook and my memory say Collins didn’t play at all in the 2006 TEN game vDAL. That’s was VY’s first start and he threw every pass, going 14/29, 155, 1/2.

by NewsToTom on Sep 11, 2011 9:52 AM CDT reply actions  

Never mind

I was thinking Wade was already in DAL in 2006, forgot he was still with SD. Those are Collins’ SD numbers. VY got into the game in the mid-second, finished the first half, Collins came back into the game at the start of the second half, then VY played like half of the third and fourth quarters. The Titans then were working VY in on a limited basis with playtime depending on game situations. Yes, it makes a tremendous amount of sense to play two quarterbacks, I have no idea why more teams don’t do it.

by NewsToTom on Sep 11, 2011 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

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