Which Position Should The Texans Target In The First Round?
The Texans enter the 2012 offseason in a strange position: owning a lot of depth. One of the reasons that Houston made it as far as they did last season is because they had players in place to step up in the face of injuries. Ben Tate. T.J. Yates. Brooks Reed. I would even go as far as to include players like Brice McCain and Tim Jamison in that mix.
I'm not quite into my draftnik costume yet this year, but one thing I think sets up for an interesting debate this year is what position the Texans should be targeting with their first-round pick. From the FanPosts (and subsequent Kendall Wright stumping by John McClain), I expect a lot of you to say that wide receiver is the position. I'm not entirely sold that this is true, and I'll get into why after the jump.
WR
Sure-fire returning players: Andre Johnson ... uh ... let's roll with that.
Youngsters: Jeff Maehl, Lestar Jean, Juaquin Iglesias.
Free Agents: Bryant Johnson.
Release/Restructure candidates: Jacoby Jones, Kevin Walter.
Pros: As great as Andre Johnson is, he has not exactly been the model of health the last few years, and he is getting up there in years as well. It would be nice to have a reassuring bounceback season from him in 2012, but there is a chance that we've seen the end of his prime. Kevin Walter has been a fine No. 2 for many years, but he'll be 31 when the 2012 season starts and saw a decline in both effectiveness and targets this season -- that makes me think he's slowing down. I don't think I even need to give a Jacoby Jones dissertation. Nothing can be taken for granted here.
Cons: The other side to the coin is that as long as you believe Andre Johnson will be an elite receiver that can go deep, there isn't really a whole lot of added value in chasing a top receiver. Gary Kubiak has tapered back on the play-action deep ball since the 2009 season, and adding Walter-quality receivers actually isn't that hard. Not only is this a deep free agent class for wideouts, where someone like Robert Meachem or Stevie Johnson could easily be an answer, but it really isn't that hard to find quality receivers late in the draft. Mike Williams, Mike Wallace, Mike Thomas, Johnny Knox, Austin Collie. These are all examples of receivers from just the last couple of years that have been taken in the third round or later and contributed instantly. It makes all sorts of sense then, if you're not targeting a "replacement" for Johnson, to not jump for one in the first.
Because of those circumstances, if the Texans are picking a wide receiver in the first round, it better be someone they feel has a chance to be an elite receiver. This would steer me more towards "risky" picks like Alshon Jeffery or Michael Floyd.
NT
Sure-fire returning players: I guess it's not set in stone, but I'd be surprised if Shaun Cody weren't at least around as a backup next year.
Youngsters: Earl Mitchell, Ra'Shon Harris.
Free Agents: N/A.
Release/restructure candidates: N/A.
Pros: We've had the great tackle debate before. All I'm going to say is that as damningly adequate as Cody was this year, I would in no way be sold on him as a long-term guy. Earl Mitchell has not given me any reason to believe in him either. Thus, I think it's a spot where it would be possible to upgrade the front seven, especially considering teams ran up the middle against the Texans more than any other team in the NFL.
Cons: Well, none in theory. These are the Texans though, so if they actually select a nose tackle in the first round, I will probably have eight simultaneous heart attacks. Nose tackle has always been an expendable position to Rick Smith's FO, and I would be astonished if that changed after a year where the run defense was actually fairly successful.
CB
Sure-fire returning players: Johnathan Joseph, Brice McCain, Kareem Jackson.
Youngsters: Brandon Harris, Roc Carmichael, Sherrick McManis.
Free Agents: Jason Allen.
Release/restructure candidates: N/A.
Pros: The Kareem Jackson experience is well-documented at this point: it always ends with deep balls, an inability to turn ones head, and crying. Some would say that Jason Allen was not that much better -- I am not one of those people, but Allen definitely is not a starting cornerback in an ideal world. Targeting a cornerback in the first round would be admitting that Kareem was a total mistake, while also adding another youngster to a stable of cornerbacks coming of age -- the only line of defense against the newfangled spread attacks of the Patriots, Saints, and Packers is to have a lot of above-average corners.
Cons: But the thing is, with Harris and Carmichael already in tow from last draft, and the possibility of Allen re-signing until one of them or Jackson is actually ready to take the No. 2 slot, it doesn't make a lot of sense from a value standpoint to take a cornerback this high. The Texans could completely bypass corner in this draft simply because they've accumulated so many over the past couple of years that they need to let things shake out before deciding who stays and who goes.
QB
Sure-fire returning players: Matt Schaub, T.J. Yates.
Youngsters: N/A.
Free Agents: N/A.
Release/Restructure Candidates: Matt Leinart.
Pros: Matt Schaub has undoubtedly become the greatest quarterback in Texans history, but he'll be 31 next year and it's anybody's guess a) how well his body holds up as he gets older, b) how many more good years he has in his arm, and c) what kind of contract he's willing to sign to stay here. Yates showed decent poise and was definitely more competent than a fifth-round pick should have been, but you can see that he has a ways to go in his development as well. With things a bit unsettled in the long-term, I could see the Texans snagging someone that they consider to have franchise QB potential at this spot.
Cons: The problem with that is that the depth of this class has really been cut down. I think most of the part of me that likes this idea was enamored with the idea that Robert Griffin III's slight frame would drive him down to late in the first round, and that is just not going to happen. I can't say I'd be thrilled with a Ryan Tannehill, Brock Osweiler, Kellen Moore, or Nick Foles in the first round, but if #KubiakBelievesInThem, I guess I could find a way to rationalize it.
ILB
Sure-fire returning players: Brian Cushing, Darryl Sharpton.
Youngsters: Mister Alexander.
Free Agents: Tim Dobbins.
Release/Restructure Candidates: DeMeco Ryans.
Pros: As sad as it is to admit, it is probably true that DeMeco Ryans played his best football before the Texans became a good defense. While there were certain games in which he was phenomenal last season, he was not an impact player, nor was he consistently good. Nobody actually knows what kind of restructuring he did last offseason, but it wouldn't be a surprise to see that occur again this offseason. Darryl Sharpton is coming off a devastating quad tendon tear -- it is anyone's guess as to how he rebounds from that.
Cons: With Cushing in place, the second middle linebacker isn't really an impact player in the Wade Phillips scheme -- it would be pretty stunning to see a first-round pick used here, although I guess I can see it if I squint my eyes.
(To address a few more that I didn't break down: If Chris Myers or Mario Williams leaves, I could see another pass rusher or offensive lineman with this pick)
We're at a real crossroads here, Texans fans. There are two positions on the roster that I'd say make the most sense for a first-round pick: wideout and nose tackle. It would not be hard at all to replace Walter or Jones without using a first-rounder, and I don't know if my brain is mentally ready to accept a first-round Texans nose tackle. Because of that, the Texans are truly free to embrace Best Player Available. I would not be surprised by anything that happens with this pick. Trading up to get the last prospect on the board that they like makes sense. Trading down makes sense. Trading for future picks makes sense. This is a team that, due to the depth it has built and depending on what it does in free agency, has a wide range of options this offseason.
While I would be surprised if the Texans don't leave the draft with a couple of wide receivers, that doesn't necessarily mean they need to spend a first-round pick on one.
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Maybe draft a really fast and big TE and convert em to wideout
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Ah
The Dorin Dickerson experiment.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
thank you!
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a surprise for you
Dorin Dickerson is on the practice squad of the Patriots and if they win the Super Bowl, he will get a ring.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
So will Antwuan(sp?) Molden
You're breaking my heart, you're tearin' it apart, so f**k you - Harry Nilsson
They should give different rings
to scrubs. “Sorry Antwuan, you suck…here is your ring pop!”
"Wait! There's a crack in it!"
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
What about a former TE turned DB
To cover other athletic TEs in the league. Don’t think we’ve ever had a DB that was a former TE. Considering there’s a former TE at every other position, there’s obviously no downside to this move that I can see.
Bandwagon fan since Oct. 6, 1999.
by Lone Spot on Jan 20, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a good point that someone brought up on another post (can't remember which one)
I think the problem with it was that coaches tend to favor offensive positions for versitile players (Players that can play both sides of the ball) however, JJ Watt was a TE before he was a D lineman, so it isn’t unheard of.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
Connor barwin, brooks reed
Rectum!? Damn near killed 'em!!!
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 20, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Just noticed your sig.
It’s my favorite punch line ever.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:47 PM CST up reply actions
I remember that post as well,
But I think it was specifically in regards to the athletic freaks like Calvin Johnson and AJ Green. Someone was wondering when we would start seeing tall, agile, athletic cornes that can stay with these new WR’s. That’s when someone said that when you have athletes like that, you tend to put them on offense, rather than on defense.
by Tailgate Andy on Jan 20, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
yup, thats the one.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
'Twas in the most recent 2DH comments, iirc.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Shannon Sharpe
Would’ve made for a helluva strong safety. Just sayin’.
Bandwagon fan since Oct. 6, 1999.
In between the bacon merkin and cult movie quotes?
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Hmmmm
Actually thought it was just below the random 90s rap video and just above Maijuana Pepsi…
Rectum!? Damn near killed 'em!!!
by theSpaceCityKid on Jan 21, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
The Patriots seem to have done ok with that theory.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
We are good enough that we could have won the whole damn thing if injuries didn't have their way with us
I’m ok with BPA at this point. I’m ok with trading down if a guy at a position we need isn’t there though, as Smith has done in the past.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Im not opposed to an interior O lineman either
if alshon jeffrey slips to you you have to at least consider it, but man its a huge risk
I think broyles could be that 3-4 round guy, and can return punts better than JJ even as a rookie. he excels at that, and i should know
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
We are thin at interior O line
starters are good… but how long until Briesel dies… again?
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
and wade smith possibly
I think a top talent at G would do this team well, especially to help myers agaisnt bigger DTs and NTs
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
if we go guard i want keivn zeitler from Wisconsin.
think he can be taken in 2nd or 3rd round though.
I made a case for OG in another thread, but after consideration I can't see them going that way
Simply because you really want a guy in the first with a good chance of starting right away, and our existing starters on the o-line are so good that I can’t picture a rookie being anything but depth. Still think they should get one in the mid rounds though.
I’m actually leaning toward ILB now, as I think we could get someone there that at least rotates with Demeco, taking it from a position of moderate weakness to once of ridiculous strength.
by JBal on Jan 21, 2012 12:40 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
If you're a good team drafting late, you don't necessarily need an immediate starter.
And Wade Smith isn’t so good (nor Brisiel so healthy) that we couldn’t make use of another guard. As for ILB… It’s a two-down position, DeMeco is under a big contract, Dobbins looked quite good when he played, and Sharpton will be back and healthy. I thought it was a big need going into this past season, but it really sorted itself out.
O-line depth still strikes me as a major issue. We have no legitimate back-up center, Caldwell has looked shaky at best, and Wade Smith played like somebody who needed to be replaced last year. Unless they’re 100% sold on Shelly Smith, they could definitely use another body in the mix.
I totally agree on the OG
Still don’t think they’ll go that way in the first. You’re probably right about ILB though. Definitely won’t be a WR though, just because it seems to be a consensus. I can just see Kubiak rubbing his hands together, saying “they’ll never expect this” as we end up with a running back or something. Texans are always tough to predict.
by JBal on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM CST via Android app up reply actions 1 recs
Had to laugh
Texans are always tough to predict.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli
"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson
"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock
Never try to baptize a cat.
Agree that we are thin at OG, but we are even thinner at WR,
given that Jacoby MUST go.
Smithiak needs to draft a couple of WRs with a chance of producing this year. OG and NT will have to hope for sleepers in the 3rd and 4th rounds.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
This is what I was thinking should be our #2 pick
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
The Oakie has something here... I say take two Offensive interior linemen
Winston needs a little help and Brown could use some rest from time to time.
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
I really can't see us taking CB either
unless Harris was just that bad in practice this year, or Carmichael was just that bad in preseason before going down. It could just be Kubes speak, but it seems like they still believe in Kareem too.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
If Smithiac pick another CB early, I won't flip out
but It would surprise me since they tend to be a “shot in the dark”
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
Smithiak*
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
Is Harris that bad?
I thought he would/should be Kareem’s replacement.
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
Fantastically written, Rivers.
This is really well thought out.
Trying to find my Rick Smith hat, I know his tendency is to find a starter in round 1. Depending on FA moves, that could be a center (would he trade up for the draft’s best center in Peter Konz?), wide receiver, or nose tackle.
Not only do the Texans avoid NTs in round one, but the value is better in round two where Josh Chapman and Alameda Ta’amu are projected to go.
As it stands now, I could see the Texans targeting WR with their eyes on multiple targets. Rick’s favorite move is to have multiple targets and trade back to acquire picks and nab whoever remains. Right now, I would trade down and pick up an additional selection (our 1 for a 2/3 or 2/2013 1)….and draft Nick Toon.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Cliff Harris is the only CB I would take
Dude is a beast. He can be had late too. But he has NO chance of getting drafted here. He’s fucking stupid.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
I just don't know why he has gotten few looks
The coaches obviously don’t like something
Firesale! Everyone must go!
by astrosfan1989 on Jan 20, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Loved the post and rec'd it accordingly.
I actually voted WR for three reasons:
1. I am sticking with my theory about upgrading NT by re-signing Mario Williams and moving Watt/Smith inside.
2. There are no interior O-linemen that I like in the low first round this year.
3. I think Nick Toon is underrated and is going to be a tremendous NFL WR.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
He would fit into this offense so tremendously well, in my mind.
40-time be damned….he knows how to play football.
"Lord, beer me strength."
His dad was a three-time Pro Bowler
with amazing hands, and he was one of the most underrated possession receivers of all time in my opinion. That’s some quality genetics to hedge your bet with.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
I had a chance to watch Toon when Wisconsin played at TCF Bank Stadium this past season.
That’s when I joined the Toon bandwagon because watching him in person gave me a huge appreciation for his blocking and route-running…even when the play wasn’t going his way. The guy puts in the work each and every play. His dad has definitely done a good job in instilling that into him.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Yup.
The blocking is impressive. Rare to find that kind of all-around play in a big name WR at a big name program.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Genetics?
Meh. Sometimes.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
And a lot of not so good.
Just saying it’s not a reliable predictor.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Doesn't look to me
like too many dads who were Pro Bowl / All-Pro level players had kids who were busts. Just because it’s not a perfect 1:1 correlation doesn’t mean that taking a kid with a Pro Bowl dad (who played the same exact position) isn’t a safer bet than taking a similar kid (from a lesser program) who does not.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
How many dads who were Pro Bowl / All-Pro level players had kids who played in the league at all?
Damned few, it appears. I don’t see any reason why one should be reassured by a prospect’s dad’s abilities, just because they appear to be inherited on occasion.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Using the list you provided
plus a couple who aren’t listed on there because they are third generation, you’ve got:
Jackie Slater: Son has had minimal playing time
Howie Long: Son is a pro bowler and a very good player
Bob Griese: Son not as good as dad, but not a bust
Archie Manning: One son is the best QB in NFL history, the other is a damn good QB
Walter Payton: Son never caught on in NFL
Phil Simms: Son is a bust
Kellen Winslow Sr: Son is a pro bowler
Tony Dorsett: Son never did much in NFL
Lawrence McCutcheon: Son had a solid, if unspectacular, 9 year NFL career
Ronnie Lott: Son was an average NFL LB for about 5 years
Tony Adamle: I’m not counting because Tony was before the modern game and his son was a white RB from Northwestern
Mosi Tatupu: Son made three pro bowls and 1 all pro
Clay Matthews Jr.: 1 son is pro bowl / all pro LB; other son is a starting LB for the Eagles
Bruce Matthews: Son Kevin is on the Titans practice squad, other son is highly-touted college OT who will be drafted in 2013
That’s 10 of 14 who were not busts, with two more who are too early to tell. I’m guessing there aren’t many other aspects of a potential draft pick that you can look at and say "hey, over 70% of kids who ____ " are at least average NFL starters for a career.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Jan 20, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I’d say if genetics were a reliable factor, the sons of Pro Bowl / All-Pro level players would be better represented in the league, but that’s a guess and we don’t have any #s to tell us how many sons even play college football or enter the draft.
Remember, I never said genes play no role in the chances a player will have a good NFL career, only that it appears that it only sometimes does. Maybe it’s a real indicator, but without an extensive statistical study to confirm that impression, I would not call it a good hedge for a pick.
Does it beat a coin flip for deciding between two otherwise equal prospects? I guess so, but that’s about as far as I’d go, and if I’m resorting to that I probably haven’t done due diligence.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Muhammed Kid aint too bad.... I whole heartedly agree with number 1....
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
I would like to see Poe fall to us
Even though Pittsburgh will likely grab him, or even a trade.
WR should be addressed in the FA period, and perhaps some later round selections. WR would be my second guess, With either Wright or Jones
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
I think pittsburgh will draft defense first
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
"...owning a lot of depth. "
…except at WR.
No question: that has to be the 1st-pick target.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Pass rusher.
Either a 3rd OLB if Mario plays DE or a 3rd DE if Mario plays OLB.
No pass rush = bad defense.
Rotating OLBs and DEs = better pass rush.
Schaub + Walter + AJ + Jacoby = top five passing offense.
Schaub + Walter + Jacoby + whoever = top 15 passing offense.
Yup. That's why getting Mario back is a must.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
no
thats why getting another less expensize LB is a must
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I think if you can get
Mario back for any less than the 14 mil he made this year, you do it in a heartbeat. He’s not going to get a raise though.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
At least not a raise that affects the cap
But if he gets a guaranteed retirement/pension….hummmm, that falls under a different cap
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
Simple solution
Put a couple mil in a suitcase, drop it off at an undisclosed location, give Mario the coordinates, and tell him that’s his “real” salary so he’s happy. Officially, sign him to a small amount so it’s cap friendly, but he still gets what he deserves. Everyone’s happy.
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
lol and if we get caught?
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
"Undisclosed"...and send a decoy first
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
Zac Diles is cost-effective.
By this rationale, they should bring him back.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
You mean one just like Mario?
Sure.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Brooks Reed probably could be considered the less expensive LB in this equation
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Disco.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
I think Mario Williams
is important enough to spend a little extra on him vs going the “cost effective” route.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Well thats what I mean
I mean if we resign him he and reed combine will probably add up to less of a cap hit then mario does alone in 2011, if I understand things correctly.
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
Important enough...
To the point that we had an epic pass rush all season long and notched nine sacks in two playoff games without him.
It wasn't an "epic" pass rush
It was a good pass rush. And Antonio Smith disappeared from when Mario got injured until the last week of the season, at least in the pass rush. And Mario had 5 sacks in 4 games when he got hurt and was tied for the conference lead. Pretending like Mario Williams is not better in this defense than anyone you would get in free agency is ludicrous to me.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Jan 20, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Regardless as to who is correct
OLB or ILB should be on the draft list
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Let's turn it another way
At the start of the season…everyone knew Mario was the premiere pass rusher and put emphasis on blocking him.
When he went down….the attention turned to Antonio Smith.
So if you have a healthy Mario, Antonio, J.J., Cushing, Barwin……who do you put emphasis on blocking? Literally, it’s a pick your poison pass rush.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like it
Pick Your Poison….
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Pretending like Mario Williams is not better in this defense than anyone you would get in free agency is ludicrous to me.
When has anybody ever said that? Every single argument against re-signing Mario that I’ve read has been from a salary cap standpoint.
Not you specifically.
But it seems like over the past few days people have been arguing that Mario is not “worth” the money because you can get someone “nearly as good” much more cheaply.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
That is one argument
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
To which I say
show me this “nearly as good” free agent.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
That can't happen
Best you could hope for if Mario is out of the equation; go with what you have and just so happens, that’s what happened the 2nd half of the season. In addition to that, the existing players mature and improve. Also, draft a rookie with promise. Maybe there is a FA out there, but no Mario. Is any of the above in singularity or in combination the end of the world? No. So, what happens happens is the way I am looking at it. It is not the end of the world if Mario leaves. It’s no guarantee of the Super Bowl if he stays. The team will be okay either way and they will win.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Is any of the above in singularity…the end of the world?
If a black hole strikes the Solar System?
Yes.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and somehow I'm reminded of the Star Trek with Janeway series
where there was the all too convenient "singularity of the week " that they popped into and out of every week.
If a black hole strikes the Solar System?
Yes.
Still, I like the potential of that whole answer there, Freedom Ride. We could use it in so many places =D. Right up there with Patrick Willis notoriety.
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 4:11 AM CST up reply actions
I blame a singularity for our taking Okoye ahead of Willis and Revis.
It’s the only thing that can explain something that crazy.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
LOL I just looked up the 2007 NFL draft
wow! I see what you mean.
I didn’t even know those two guys were in the same draft as Okoye.
yep must have been a singularity ;-) .
or meth in the beer in the war room. might be that.
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
This.
Mario takes this D from very good to elite. Think about it. Not only does he bring his talent to bear, but also how much more effective Barwin and Reed when they actually can come off the field and catch a breather. It really is ludicrous to think this D is “just as good” without Mario.
Well
when people say things like “you can get three players for what you’d pay Mario,” that implies that getting those three players is as good or better for your team than bringing back Mario. I mean, you could sign me, BFD, and Tim for far less than you’d pay Mario, but that doesn’t mean that the move helps the team or makes it better.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Jan 20, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ok let's get this right.
I want Mario back, but if he does not come back then we can use that money elsewhere. That is all i am saying. This team is better with Mario we all know that.
Well, that's putting things slightly differently.
You’re saying if he doesn’t come back, we can spend the money elsewhere. I agree with that. It seems like more people are saying that if he doesn’t come back at a drastically reduced price we should bid him adieu and spend the money elsewhere.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Fair enough.
Tough to predict how the salaries are going to play out. If it comes down to it, is it Mario vs. Barwin + Quin? I think they’ll re-sign Cushing and Brown at all costs, so I’m not worried there, but is one great player more valuable than two good players? Who can say, really.
is one great player more valuable than two good players?
Please. It’s the NFL salary cap, as long as Bob shells out the cash for bonuses, we can re-sign everyone.
by willieboyd on Jan 20, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
OK, phrase it differently.
Do you think the 2012 defense is just as good as the 2011 without Mario Williams? By which I mean, do you think having an opening day front five that does not feature Mario gets you the same overall results on the year as having a 2011 starting roster with him?
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Thats hard to say.
If Mario stays healthy we move barwin back to SOLB. We got really good production out of those guys. It seems like you saying if we get mario he better have 20 sack season to out do this team.
Not exactly.
I’m saying that Mario, in addition to being a better pass rusher than Barwin or Reed, makes everyone else on the front better, too. THAT’S the part that I think a team should be willing to pay extra for. You could probably find a couple Mark Anderson types who would be limited use pass rushers and have decent sack totals, and you could sign both of them for less than you’d pay Mario, but they would not make the defense better overall. They’d be role players.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Absolutely spot on.
Brooks was good as a rookie, but he really didn’t do anything a Mark Anderson couldn’t.
Mario is a defensive game-changer (at two positions).
Mark Anderson?
Come on, man. Reed deserves WAY more credit than that. He stepped in and played lights out.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Anderson's a better pass rusher, but Reed's better overall IMO.
Anderson’s a double digit sack guy, Reed wasn’t.
That's not really a fair comparison TBH
Anderson had double digit sacks exactly twice in his career, as a situational player. The rest of the time he’s done squat.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
To expound...
Brooks had 6 sacks this season as was moved from WLB to SLB after he failed to get it done as a pass rusher. He did make quite a few tackles that Mark Anderson probably would have over-pursued, though.
I think Brooks was a beneficiary of low expectations.
Failed to get it done?
He started at WLB what, one game? His very first NFL start. Then they recognized that Barwin was better suited to play that spot and moved Reed to SLB, which was a brilliant move I might add. That was more a nod to Barwin’s skill set than a slight on Reed.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Wade about the change:
(on if he moved OLB Connor Barwin to Will last week) "Yeah, we didn’t tell anybody, but we did. We flipped sides with those guys. During the game, we went one way when Mario (Williams) went out and then we felt like Brooks (Reed) had worked so much at… Connor can play either one, so Brooks had worked so much at the Sam, we put him back there and he felt more comfortable there and you could see it in the game."
He makes it sound like the change was made because of Brooks.
by willieboyd on Jan 23, 2012 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
nice research!
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 4:29 AM CST up reply actions
That's no different than saying Barwin was better suited to play the position
And it’s a far cry from saying Reed “failed to get it done.” In his defense he wasn’t given more than one game to prove he could play the Will. Wade just felt that he was more comfortable playing Sam, and he was right.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Indeed: Reed over-performed, actually.
It remains to be seen if he will be an All-Pro, but you have to be thrilled at his production as a rookie.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 24, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He showed up big time in the Baltimore game...
But the bulk of his sacks this season came unblocked. He’s rather one dimensional as a pass rusher right now; takes that speed rush straight downfield most of the time. It works if Watt busts through and doesn’t allow the QB to step up in the pocket, but otherwise he’s running himself out of the play.
That said, he does a great job of getting his shoulder low and turning the corner with a good angle. He was just a rookie, so of course there’s plenty of time for him to develop an inside move that will keep blockers honest.
by Nashmeister on Jan 20, 2012 11:56 PM CST up reply actions
What he lacks in technique right now he makes up for with hustle
I would agree that he tends to run himself behind the play, but not out of it. Roughly half of his sacks are a result of him coming back to the QB from behind the pocket. The Ravens game was a perfect example. I believe it was his second sack where he over shot the pocket, but when everyone else whiffed (there were literally 3 other guys that could have had the sack but failed to get Flacco down) Reed crashed back up through the middle of the pile to finish the play. It’s that kind of no-quit effort that allowed him to excel this season. And once he does add some inside moves to his tool box I think he’ll be a consistent double digit sack guy.
Let’s not forget, Mario was also known for over shooting the pocket with his speed rush the first couple of years. It wasn’t until he fine tuned his inside technique that he beasted out.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
LOL my perennial image of Brooks Reed is this madman with long blonde locks behind held back by the scruff of his neck
as if he’s this UNSTOPPABLE wind up toy that is programmed to “MUST . . . GET . . . TO . . . QUARTERBACK”
You could see his legs churning and his arms pumping. It was great!
Pity the fools who couldn’t hold him back ;-).
“meet you at the quarterback!”~ Spencer Tillman on Texans, Inside The Game.
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 4:28 AM CST up reply actions
All of the pre-draft talk on Watt and Reed was about their motors
What they supposedly lack in athleticism and intangibles they make up for with hustle. Well, the scouting report couldn’t have been more right about both of them. They are as advertised…..relentless to the ball.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Except that Watt lacks nothing in athleticism.
As I routinely had to point out when people were complaining about taking the “safe pick” in Watt over the “high upside” Fairley.
Given the 49ers and Ravens are still playing....
I want an elite defense > elite offense.
"Lord, beer me strength."
The Saints certainly smell what you are stepping in.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Right.
There is no reason we should not have a pass rush that is bad-ass to the point of being totally unfair.
I want opposing quarterbacks running off the field hollering “¡No mas!”
I want them refusing to come out for the 2nd half.
I want Ed Reed to have to come straight out and call Flacco a pussy next year.
I want Mario back.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 10 recs
undoubtedly.
There is no argument Mario is the #1 priority this year and Myers a close second. If that means we have to sacrifice picking up Ward, Dreessen, Leinart, and cut Jacoby: easy decision.
That's the beauty of Kubiak.
His offense led by a rookie 5th-round QB and WRs Jacoby and Walter clinched us the division with victories over two playoff teams. Our all-pro RB was undrafted. He has a history of doing this. He can create good to great offense with niche talent (aka lower round guys).
Spend the early picks to make this team’s defensive front seven the deepest, the most athletic and most feared front seven in the league.
Of course the one caveat is, don’t deviate too much from BPA.
what is BPA?
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 4:32 AM CST up reply actions
Best Player Available
regardless of position, I think
by EnglishTexan on Jan 24, 2012 6:38 AM CST up reply actions
awesome! thank you for the translation =)
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
This is correct
Before Mario went down, the sack average shows we were on track for 48 sacks. This is early in the season before mario and the D really got settled in, and with the losses at NO and oakland.
Folks, he does make a difference.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 8:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you metion Jacoby again.... tripple bleach shots for you...
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
I think we should over address the issue at wide reciver
We could prob get a solid #2 and future #1 in the first round and in the 3rd round grab a burner like broyles to really bolster our receiving core.
Firesale! Everyone must go!
Nick toon is a guy to keep an eye on for late in the first which is where we are drafting
Firesale! Everyone must go!
by astrosfan1989 on Jan 20, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Who's a better prospect, Dwight Jones or Nick Toon?
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
Hmmm
At the moment I’d say it’s Nick Toon. He has much better hands and is a better blocker.
My thoughts are like Brian Cushing on the field: Everywhere.
Both are a pretty good fit for our offense
with toon having an edge in the all around catagory. But Dwight would probably do better if Yates was QB or for just receiving
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 21, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
I would love to get wright but I want a more future #1 in the first round
Firesale! Everyone must go!
by astrosfan1989 on Jan 20, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
How could you ever want more then Dre?
I want a carbon copy but that would be too much to ask for.
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
We could trade up to get Justin Blackmon, if that's the case...
Houston Texans: 1 Playoff Win.
Vince Young, Dunta Robinson, and Jason Babin: 0 Combined Playoff Wins.
I mean for the future he would be a guy that would be a #1 type but just a # 2 for us.
we need to draft someone that could take over for dre in 2 to 3 years because it is obvious that his injuries are becoming a factor
Firesale! Everyone must go!
by astrosfan1989 on Jan 21, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
You could get that in Dwight Jones or Sanu, possibly from Nick Toon as well
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 21, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions
WR is the 1st pick
Whether that pick takes place in the 1st round remains to be seen. We could just trade down.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
^^^^ this I can see^^^^
Especially if we can get two picks prior to the fourth for it.
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
I don't see a 1st round NT
as a “no con” situation at all. Many of our defensive snaps are run in a 4-3 setup (usually looks like Reed – Watt – Smith – Barwin) where the nose tackle doesn’t even take the field. Having one would only be of use on running downs and our defense up the middle, while not dominating, certainly wasn’t disastrous. Dontari Poe is, I think, the only “nose tackle” that could potentially be available at the 26th pick and his is the “large astral body” type, which I don’t think Wade likes utilizing. I see our best value this late in the 1st as a wide receiver or defensive back. The Giants got Hakeem Nicks with the 29th pick in the draft, I would love to have a player of that quality across from AJ.
God is not on our side because he hates idiots also.
I don't see a huge need for Nose tackle because we did good stoping the run most the year
Firesale! Everyone must go!
by astrosfan1989 on Jan 20, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
A nicks type pick up at our spot in the draft would be awesome
Firesale! Everyone must go!
by astrosfan1989 on Jan 20, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
This.
I’d rather draft depth with the potential to grow into a starting role in the first round than a two-down starter.
Think you guys are misunderstanding the point here
I’m fine considering a small-ish nose tackle that can penetrate. I’m arguing for a pock there purely from a talent perspective.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | Football Outsiders | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Jan 20, 2012 5:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
A pick, also.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | Football Outsiders | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Jan 20, 2012 5:35 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
A pock and a pick?
Now you’re just getting greedy, McCown.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Jan 20, 2012 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
The Guys At PFF Wouldn't Be That Greedy
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
by Tim on Jan 20, 2012 9:29 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
They'd just determine that the pock was worth -2.81
and be done with it.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | Football Outsiders | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Jan 21, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Ok hear me out.
TE Coby Fleener is who we should get, maybe not in first round but atleast in round 2.
I honestly think that
Mario will stay here so I think that the obvious choice should be WR, unless there isn’t anyone worthy of being a first round pick left out there. That said, I would LOVE it if the Texans could find a way to steal Reggie Wayne from the Colts.
He's old and expensive.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
but you must admit
he can still play at a high level for a year or two, and if we could get him on a one year deal ( we cant i know) for decent money ot would be a great move
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
He's not that old
and he might not be THAT expensive, also IMO he is worth it. That said, he would have to likely take either the 14 mil he got this year or a cut in order to make it work.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
He's 33.
He’ll be 34 during the 2012 season. For a guy whose game is built on speed and being a deep threat, do you really throw money at wheels that are that old instead of finding a young guy who can do the same? It’s not like Wayne’s a great blocker or is willing to run the underneath stuff that Walter does.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Since when did he
get older than me? Last time I checked he was born in 85. You could give Mario a deal similar to DeMarcus Ware and he would cost the team less than what he is making now, if that deal would be satisfactory to him, I don’t see why you wouldn’t do it.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry I misread that
I thought you were talking about Mario being 34. Yeah Wayne is old, but I wasn’t talking about a long term deal for him.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
I agree completely on the Ware deal for Mario
and that’s what I predict will happen.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Jan 20, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
They could potentially give Mario a long term deal and give Foster a raise for less than what Mario’s cap hit was last year. I don’t think the Texans’ cap situation is as dire as some reports have tried to make it seem.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Even old he was on schedule for a near 20 sack season when he went out...
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
...

True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
by WreckNTexan on Jan 20, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 8 recs
That is kinda crappy.
So when all those time the girls were telling me no, they really meant yes. I knew it time to call my laywer back.
Rothlesburger'd
You are banned from Stampede Blue.
You can browse the blog, but you can't participate.
Hi CFHTim. You're trolling yet another SB Nation blog. Since you've been banned from several other SB Nation blogs, you don't get a warning. You get banned. If you want to get unbanned, email BBS and state your case for re-admission.
Mind = Blown
Houston Texans fan, first and foremost.
College football teams: Army, Syracuse, Texas, Auburn.
I'm going with WR
Because I feel like the other needs can be addressed in later rounds, and we could then hopefully cut Jacocby!
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
'Zackly.
The idea of starting the season without another WR we can count on to produce is just too scary. This shit has got to be fixed.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
What I'd like
Is a WR to be the Reggie Wayne to Andre’s Marvin Harrison. A solid #2 then whenever Andre ascends into the Heavens of retirement, can take over #1 and we do same thing again.
by BricAM on Jan 20, 2012 1:31 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Not the best comparison
None of the colts receivers block worth a shit. But I get your point.
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
Tough
I voted WR because I think that’s the only position where we really need someone to come in and be an impact player from day 1 that can be fixed in the draft. I think CB is our highest need position, but I’d like to go find a CB via free agency. Frankly, I’d be fine with Jason Allen as CB2.
Houston Texans fan, first and foremost.
College football teams: Army, Syracuse, Texas, Auburn.
Jason Allen will not be back I promise
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Jan 20, 2012 1:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If not, then we will need to spend the same amount of money to keep him
on another FA CB
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
He said he wants to play here
Can we sign him for less? I’d rather do that than start all over with yet another CB in the draft….FA will be even more expensive that trying to re-sign him.
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
I don't know if we will be able to afford a good FA CB
but if we can keep the backfield that we have now, I think we will be ok next year. By then we will see if our last draft picks are gonna be successful.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
Another FA CB.... not a bad idea....AT ALL!!
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
money money money.
a new free agent cb probably means no mario. Id rather have mario
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
by Carter Liles on Jan 21, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Ranking the 2012 Draft Prospects by Position – Wide Receiver
Mocking the Draft has Sanu #2.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
too high IMO
especially since you can get a guy in the 3-4 round area IMO
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I think so, and he has "Texan" written all over him.
He’s our kind of guy, ISTM.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
hes a late first early second
good value for us at 26
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
Yup. I want him.
…in a totally platonic way, of course.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
If we do get Sanu
then that spells the end for Kevin Walter and Jacoby Jones (Jones is gone no matter what)
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
So not being much of a draft expert
It seems to me as if that article implies after Blackmon the next 3-4 prospects are pretty close. That would lead me to believe that the Texans are in pretty good shape to get a good WR should they choose to go that route at #26.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Yup, this draft will be deep in WRs
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
I like Dwight Jones from UNC also..... That kid could be a stud...
So if we get Sanu
Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!
Case Keenum FTW!!!!
I'm a household name... at my house.
Michael Vick is the best throwing running back of all time.
My put your name on it prediction for the Housotn Texans.
10-6, with a first round playoff upset over either the Ravens or Steelers.
I think Case will be drafted
just not by us, and not until the 5th or 6th round.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
The question was: "Which Position Should The Texans Target In The First Round?"
My answer: Jacoby Jones’
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Hear, hear.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Jan 20, 2012 2:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
by HTown24 on Jan 20, 2012 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
.......

"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
by HTown24 on Jan 20, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Flagged?
Flagged.
Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.
Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.
Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.
I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!
by UprootedTexan on Jan 20, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry...
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
Ah, don't worry about it.
Not THAT big a deal.
Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.
Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.
Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.
I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!
by UprootedTexan on Jan 20, 2012 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
Someone should put
A forever alone face on this gif, right after he decides it was a good idea to field that
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
"Finkle is Einhorn, Einhorn is Finkle"

"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
I rec that every time
but it doesn’t make me feel any better
"Walter is a quality 2nd receiver. Jacoby is so bad that the two of them together is less than just Walter by himself." -Toolshed1
by RocketsAstros on Jan 21, 2012 2:53 AM CST up reply actions
Banned
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli
"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson
"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock
Never try to baptize a cat.
I actually
Wanted to go with Kendall Wright before the McClain report came out. I think the perfect fit would be David DeCastro but I can’t see him falling
by Zukywich08 on Jan 20, 2012 2:42 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
It's a really rich class as far as offensive linemen go.
According to various sites:
- 8 guards have a 1st-3rd round grade on them, including 3 who could go in round 1 which is crazy for a guard.
- 9 centers have a 1st-3rd grade on them
- 12 tackles have a 1st-3rd grade right now, including a potential 6 in round 1.
It’s a good time if you’re looking for quality linemen.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Great write up Rivers!
I think one question in terms of FO philosophy is: Do they go all out in this FA and Draft for a 2012 Superbowl run (ie: trade up for a hot pick WR), or do they build for a sustained five year dominance that might yield deep playoffs/Superbowl performance (do like NE and trade down to accumulate future picks)?
My thinking is there are no assurances about the future, especially outside a 3 year picture. It’s also very hard to repeat championship success (see the Steelers, Saints, Packers for recent reference). Given the age considerations we have, I’d go all in this year for a burst optimum shot at going all the way in 2012. A few key skill players hitting that 30+ category yet surrounded by many in their 2nd to 5th season of prime age/performance should be the point to put all the chips on the table for a focused run. Then trade/draft to rebuild the aging positions in 2013.
I wouldn't mind the idea of trading down
And getting those extra picks. It would be a terrible move to trade up and get a real game changer. It’s always a risk. Look how that worked out for the Falcons. He is a good player but they moved up so they could outscore teams and only managed 2 points in the playoffs
by Zukywich08 on Jan 20, 2012 3:00 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
I wouldn't trade up
Didn’t really work too well for ATL. Of course their OC (and new HC of JAX) apparently sucked donkey balls at his job.
by BricAM on Jan 20, 2012 5:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't know if they will
But it is least likely to hurt us this year if they trade up. We have good depth at enough positions, that we could shoot our load in the first 2 rounds and be ok giving up 3rd – 5th rd picks.
By the way does anyone know if we are getting any compensatory picks?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 8:59 PM CST up reply actions
i just want a NT and Nick TOOOOOOOOONN
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 2:52 PM CST via mobile reply actions
What do you guys think about Brockers?
I could also see us selecting him. He is already bigger than either of our NTs this year and he is only a sophomore. He is raw but also has a lot of potential and has room to gain around 10-15 pounds
by Zukywich08 on Jan 20, 2012 2:56 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
I'm just amazed at wht good coaching and a single exceptional off season (FA + draft) have done to our outlook.
Remember last year? All the wailing and gnashing of teeth with respect to a perceived lack of depth…esp for a 3-4 football team? Now look were we are.
For the record, I say the Mario Decision effects everything. If we resign him, I say BPA with an emphasis on the interior line, WR, LB and NT.
If we do NOT resign Mario, the OLB, OLB, OLB then interior line, WR, ILB, and NT.
Thats the thing is the free agency and mario.
Also if Mario leaves and see we go get one of Wade’s former cowboys, in Anthony Spencer
"Yeah, I mean, my Ferrari got stolen
but I replaced it with a used Mercury Sable, so it’s all good."
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Jan 20, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Well this is if we can't afford mario.
Everybody seem to be set with Barwin and Reed starting, and if we just need depth, think i would take spencer over bulman or that other guy. Now just remeber this is only if Mario leaves.
Here's the thing (or at least a thing I haven't mentioned yet):
When the team is in the base 5-2 alignment, can you point to a single player on a line of
Barwin — Watt — Cody — Smith — Reed
and tell me that Mario would not be an upgrade over them? I can’t. THAT is what Mario brings - flexibility and depth and an insane amount of skill at all five of those positions.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Nobody is denying mario being a upgrade.
It is just the bussines side that is killing us right now. I dont think one person here will say they dont want mario over any of those guys. Pretty much what it will boil down to is we can get two or three players for what we about to pay mario. (ex.. Namdi and us getting joseph and manning)
I don't think that
Mario will be THAT expensive, I think that his deal can be done to where he wouldn’t hurt the cap. I think that if done right, his deal would allow him to be re-signed and afford to give Foster his pay raise for less than what Mario cost us last year by himself.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
Throw me some figures
What do you consider “THAT expensive”
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Well
he cost 15 mil against the cap this year, I would consider that to be “THAT expensive”. If he signs a deal similar to DeMarcus Ware’s, he will cost somewhere between 9 and 10 mil against the cap. He gets paid what he is worth and he saves the Texans 5 or 6 mil from what they were paying him last year
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions
Ware's first new year under his deal
had a cap figure of around $6M
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Can't we restructure other contracts too?
Just like Mario’s. So that we can lower the cap hits. I would think most players in that locker room would restructure so that Foster and Myers can get paid, and re-sign Mario and others. We need to try and keep as much of this nucleus as we can (minus Jacoby, of course).
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
If we could get Marios a numbger like that then we could get Foster a 3 - 5 mil deal too
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
Foster needs AT LEAST Jacoby Jones like pay
anything less would be un-civilized.
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 4:50 AM CST up reply actions
I meant cap hit.
They should probably sign him to a bigger deal than Jacoby, just spread it over some years and guarantee a big chunk of it, but get the cap hit around 3-5 mil.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 24, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
=) fair enough
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think it's guaranteed that Mario would be better than Watt and Smith at a position he has never played.
But nobody is arguing his ability, anyways. The issue, as always, is the contract. What’s going to happen after you lock up Myers, Foster, and Mario? Duane Brown is on the horizon. Cushing, Barwin, and Quin are due for a pay day after that. Just because you can work his deal into the cap in the short-term doesn’t mean you’re not hand-cuffing yourself long-term for a player without whom your defense still functioned at a championship-caliber level.
Myers won't be that more expensive, people are making much ado about nothing with his contract.
Safeties (Quin) also don’t get paid huge bucks.
I know there are more names you listed, but just had to point out that those contracts aren’t capbreakers.
"Lord, beer me strength."
The highest-paid center in the league
only makes about $2.75M more than Myers is making this year.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
still going to be getting paid.
The person who needs to redo their contract is Winston. Dude is making almost 6 mil, why Brown is making under 1 Mil.
All told,
Brown’s cap hit this year was $1.3M, while Winston’s was $4.5. In the penultimate year of his rookie contract, Winston made only $445K.
And Winston’s salary in 2011 tied him for 16th among tackles. Is that a little high, maybe, but not so high that I would expect (or ask) him to restructure and take less.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Well
cutting Leinart saves you a little over a mil. Getting Mario a new deal will save between 5 and 9 mil in the first year. Cutting DeMeco, even with the $5M cap hit, would save you over $2M (and restructuring him would save even more). Derrick Ward is off the books, so there’s another $1.75M.
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
Jason Allen's a FA, that's more $$$ off the books
All those IR vets who signed for vet minimums are gone.
"Lord, beer me strength."
What, no Delhomme for QB3?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 20, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
He won’t make that much more than what he’s getting now…since centers don’t get paid much more than he just did plus the fact that he’s 30 and an undersized center who really fits 1 scheme. Houston’s got more leverage in this situation….him making the Pro Bowl as a reserve doesn’t really alter the deal.
I could see Myers signing a 5-year/$25M contract with $15M or so guaranteed.
Considering he made about $3.5M this year….that’s not a capbreaker and it’s fair to both sides.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Mario got some snaps
as a DE in the base set this year.
Besides, at some point, you have to be willing to pay players today and put your best possible team on the field rather than worrying about 2014 and beyond. I think giving Mario a deal that is cap-friendly in 2012 and 2013 allows you to see what he’s capable of in a full season under Wade, at which point you either cut him if he’s underperformed/been injury prone OR the 2014 and 2015 amounts seem like bargains if he’s dominated the way it appears he can in this system.
More to the point, considering what we saw in terms of injury this year, do you really want to live in a world where your 2012 backup (Reed) is your 2013 starter with someone like Bryan Braman behind him?
I have not yet begun to defile myself.
The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC
by MDC on Jan 20, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I dont think Mario is going anywhere.
Thats just me, if he stays then i will be ok. Once this team gets a full offseason together we are going to be one of the best Defense ever.
I think he is gone
but I want him signed long term
who would have though the offense would need more help than the D this offseason
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I like that being the case
because when healthy, our offense is pretty damn good.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 20, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
I would love to keep Mario
and I think the chances are that we do end up keeping him. Reed is good, but Wade came here b/c he felt he could turn Mario into a hall of famer. I think this sentiment is still alive and should be.
i want sanu, toon, or jones as my 1st
after that i dont really care- probably a g/c in the 2nd, another WR/OLB/DE in the 3rd/4th. outside of the first round, and possibly the 2nd (if we pick up a stud OL), this draft is used for rotational depth.
it feels good saying that.
but in all honesty, we need a WR in the worst way. i think walter could be a decent slot receiver, especially with the way he can be put in motion and make good blocks on the back side. either way, we draft a WR, he learns from dre- so long as its not jeffery (who i DO NOT want in a texans uniform, ever) id be happy with whatever WR they take in the 1st.
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion: a Symposium", 1941
a 1st round WR (Sanu)
a second round NT
and if we can pick him up Ryan Broyles WHO if he didnt get injured would have been a 1st round pick and i guess we should just see how his injury is
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
brolyes was a second rounder before injury
he is about 5’10 and 185, runs a 4.5 I bet
He is GREAT value in the 3-4 round area
can play slot and retunr punts right away, and is 4 weeks ahead of schedule in his rehab. Really nice guy to. very personable
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
no chance IMO
he probably wont be running till april at the earliest, at least full speed wise. prob wont be cutting and such either
he has enough tape it shouldnt be an issue. guy catches everything is why i love him
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
yea like i said i like the guy.
Really think we should double dip at WR this year. How are people feeling about Lestar Jean still?
OT: Early Super Bowl prediction
Saints vs Texans
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
seriously....?
If this happens Houston will become a Civil War…..literally it will be a awful month full of hate until one wins and then the loser will not be happy……a Saints vs Texans is a awful Superbowl not because of teams but because this city will suffer for it.
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
And it will be in NO
No thanks, I’ll take another opponent please.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
thank you
yeh i can say NO will be a crazy place too
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
If we get to the SuperBowl I could give a shit who we play.
Let’s just get to the big game and worry about all those pesky details later.
While I agree about just getting to the SB
Going to NO to play the Saints in the Superdome where they are almost unbeatable? Still say no thank you. If it happens it happens, but I would rather play any of the other 15 NFC teams first.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
If we win, who cares?
Although it would be in New Orleans. Hmm might have to change that
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
hahaha no you don't understand
There is maybe 15% of new orleans fans in Houston this place would be a battlefield. In school kids fight because the Texans won and Saints lost OR Saints beat the texans kids fought just because their NFL team lost……those two teams playing each other should be banned forever
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
You must really be against the idea of a Houston vs Dallas Super Bowl then
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
Hell no
Bring that shit on. The only idea that thrills me more than beating the Cokeboys is beating the Cokeboys at the SB where everyone will be watching.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
thank you
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Oh I want it to happen too
I just don’t understand the notion of not wanting to face the Saints. The only thing I wouldn’t want is to play in New Orleans.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
I dont want to face the Saints in NO
If the SB was in Tampa or something I would be all for it.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
And the fights would be epic!
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
hhahaa NOPE
theres if very little Cowboys and very few are as cocky as a normal NO fan….and besides this is Houston and NO they both hate the Cowboys….“A enemy of my enemy is my friend”
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Rivalries sell
also i think that may be a tad bit f an over exaggeration I don’t quite think nuclear apocalypse is coming if they face off. I mean we did so twice (in preseason and regular) and nothing really bad happened.
2 kids from my school were suspended and one of them had a broken arm.....
so this isnt enough to maybe not ban it but not hope for it…
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
by Mellowcheese on Jan 20, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
lol no
this was the saints year. they won’t be able to resign most of their players (Brees deserves and will get his mega contract) also they have no first round pick. Not saying it’s impossible but IMO it’s an underdog pick…
Then again thats just my unverified citation needed two cents.
TRADE BACK!
It seems like the WRs and NTs we want could be had in the mid- to late-2nd round, so why not trade back so we can still get starter material while also building quality depth?
Per the Trade Value Chart of draft picks (http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php), our 26th pick is worth the same as both the 10th pick in the 2nd and 3rd rounds together. I, for one, would take that in a heartbeat. We could still land Dwight Jones or Nick Toon at WR (hopefully), and maybe package our new 3rd round pick with our natural 2nd round pick to move up in the 2nd to get Poe or Ta’amu at NT (before the Steelers do).
Yeah, I might go for that if the scouting dept. doesn't believe we have a guy at #26 who's a really hot.
But it’s risky: WR depth is a serious weakness on the squad right now. If we get to opening weekend with no one besides Andre who’s any better than what we had the year before, it will suck hard indeed.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
For the record....
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Texans did just that.
It’ll depend on what they do in free agency, but that would be my first guess.
"Lord, beer me strength."
It's an interesting guess and almost totally unpredictable, too
Because that scenario would most likely involve the following events:
First if the Texans trade down, that would invariably be a draft-day trade. That kind of trade would probably mean that a player fell in the first round. That player would have to be a player of value to another team, but a player that the Texans don’t really want. Now, why would a player fall in the first round? “Character” is one reason that jumps out to me as why players drop. And, we all know that the Texans care about character, which would set them up as a willing trade partner in that situation. So, it’s not a completely unlikely scenario. So, for us to see this dream scenario become reality, we will just have to keep our ears to the ground and see what pops up as the draft gets closer.
So, this, I could see and I will be watching for the outside possibility of something happening.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Or pressure the hell out of the QB, worked for the Giants with a decimated seconary.
the only line of defense against the newfangled spread attacks of the Patriots, Saints, and Packers is to have a lot of above-average corners.
Well if that's your argument then pull the dump truck up for Mario
Its not enough to get pressure on those guys — you have to get pressure on a four man rush. That’s what did them in. And if that’s what you’re going after, you want the best rushers possible, costs be damned.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | Football Outsiders | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Jan 20, 2012 5:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm all for this
Mario wants to be here so get creative with the contract and make it happen!
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
"However, he's only 21,..."
Heard that before.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Looking at the tough schedule
I think we go 12-4. 7-1 at home (lose to GB) and 5-3 on the road (lose to Tenn, NE, and Det). Division champs, 1st round bye. 2 games, 2 wins, 1st Super Bowl. Rack ’em!
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
Loss to Tenn on the road?
41-7?? That Tennessee?
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
i know, i know
Just trying to be more conservative….however, you’re right, I’ll stick with the record and swap a win vs. Tenn with a loss to Chicago.
"I don’t like to really get in the quarterback’s head because I know he has a thousand other things to think about when he’s out on the field, but T.J. knows where I’m at."—Wide receiver Andre Johnson, on whether or not he lobbies for the ball in the huddle.
by HTown24 on Jan 20, 2012 6:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
offense
Trade down in the first round to move up the second round pick…target WR, OL and then target defense 3rd and 4th rounds.
by Hangbok on Jan 20, 2012 6:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Can nick toon be had in the second?
or jeff fuller???
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
Mario Will Get Resigned
The Texans Org I.e. McNair, R Smith, Kubes consider him one of the best defensive players in the league so I don’t think they let him go and resigning him will b a top priority this offseason
by Hangbok on Jan 20, 2012 6:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
This...if for no other reason, we don't want Mario going at Schaub
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 20, 2012 9:24 PM CST up reply actions
Anyone know about this guy?
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1664281/fletcher-cox
Analysis
Pass rush: Good quickness off the snap. Attacks gaps, getting skinny to slip past interior linemen when lining up as a defensive tackle. Enough speed to challenge the shoulders of strong-side tackles when lining up as a defensive end. Does not possess the explosiveness and flexibility to turn the corner efficiently, however, limiting his pass rush potential on the outside. Developing pass rush technique, including a swim move, but does not use this often enough. Relies almost exclusively on his bull rush. Generates an explosive pop to knock his opponent back onto his heels. Possesses the lateral agility to take advantage of the unbalanced offensive lineman to run around him and collapse the pocket.
Run defense: Good size and power, though Cox struggles with leverage, at times. Can be blown off the ball when double-teamed as he currently lacks prototypical width and thickness in his lower body for an interior defender. Cox does appear to have the frame to add an additional 10-15 pounds. Good upper-body strength and quick hands to disengage from the one-on-one block. Penetrates gaps and locates the football quickly. Slides off of blocks to latch onto ballcarriers as they attempt to run by. Alert defender who recognizes the trap block and possesses enough quickness to beat his opponent to the spot. Lacks the sustained speed to chase down ballcarriers, but puts good effort into his lateral pursuit.
Explosion: Varies his burst off the snap, but does not possess true explosiveness in his get-off. Among his best assets, however, is his strong upper body. Attacks blockers with an explosive pop, which allows him to disengage quickly.
Strength: Naturally strong man who is still learning to use his power to his advantage. Good to very good upper-body strength and leg drive to push his opponent deep into the pocket. Good strength as a drag-down tackler, as well. Does negate his own strength, on occasion, due to a high pad level.
Tackling: High effort player who locates the football and pursues laterally and downfield. An effective drag-down tackler due to his upper-body strength. Surprisingly light on his feet showing an ability to adjust to elusive ballcarriers in close quarters. Closes quickly and wraps up well, but isn’t an explosive hitter likely to knock the ball free. Has forced just two fumbles in three seasons of action.
Intangibles: Naturally large man with plenty of room for additional growth. Appears to be just scratching the surface of his physical potential, though he has three years of starting experience in the SEC. Blocked four kicks from 2009-11. Was suspended for the 2011 season-opener (Memphis), along with four other Bulldogs, for an undisclosed violation of team rules.
—Rob Rang
No.
But I want him for our team.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Uh-oh, he shows up in the 1st round in a couple of mocks.
We probably won’t get a chance at him if we take a WR.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Sure does.
But if they grab him with our #1, it will shock me. It will mean they are committed to winning with defense and the offense will just have to “make do” with what it has at WR—unless they have a sleeper they really believe in.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
With our offense
Foster johnson schaub dainels tate, that oline, we can make due.
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
by Carter Liles on Jan 20, 2012 8:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
We almost always go defense in the first round with Kubiak.
2006 Mario
2007 Amobi
2008 Brown
2009 Cushing
2010 Kareem
2011 Watt
^^This.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
lol
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
MOORE TO H-Town
I want Kellen Moore. Smart kit, fits our system. Release Matty light, and make KM our #3.
If not KM – a solid WR/Punt Returner, since we need to release Jacoby.
Teach Kareem to turn his damn head in the offseason, and he and allen can still swap time behind JJoe.
"And now", said Max, "let the wild rumpus start!"
by Kidaster on Jan 20, 2012 8:46 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Andy Dalton is laughing at all three of you.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | Football Outsiders | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Jan 21, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd for turning careless into a verb.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
If Kellen Moore Was From Katy...
I’d be all over his NFL prospects.
Looking forward to a day when being a Texans fan doesn't mean that April is the highlight of my season...
Not everyone can be that lucky.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 4:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He'll be a 3rd or 4th round pick easy
He’s ran a pretty effective offense & had great accuracy, plus against the best competition he always raised his game
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 21, 2012 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
He's going somewhere between the 3rd and 5th rounds
He’s smart, accurate, and often described as a coach’s dream.
You can draft him with the “back-up game manager” in mind….but if he develops arm strength in a NFL training program then he has starter’s upside.
"Lord, beer me strength."
he's small
and hardly ever got sacked at BSU. Unsure if he could take a pounding in the NFL.
That said, this pick would be GREAT!
How about Tannehill?
Is TJ Matt’s successor or a career back-up?
Is it too early to look for Matt’s successor if it’s not TJ?
Did Mike Sherman run a Texan-style offense?
As it stands now, TJ is heir to the throne.
This year, anyway.
I don’t see any reason to spend a pick on a QB (unless RG III falls to the 5th round).
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
And if RGIII falls to the third round then something toxic came out and we won't take him.
I never really watched RGIII, but on the assumption that Briles and Sumlin run essentially the same offense, then I doubt RGIII is any better a fit here than Keenum.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 20, 2012 10:39 PM CST up reply actions
Well, I'd rate RG III a good bit higher athletically than Case,
but yeah: I don’t see him in Koob’s offense.
Or do I? RG III rolling out on the run action against a defense desperate to stop Arian? Scary.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
nope, he is a Jaguar/Denver/Tampa Bay kind of QB
I would have said the vikings too, but now that Fisher is going there, he isn’t a fit anymore
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
I could see koobs take him late for trade value
QBs value probably goes up after a year Kubiak coaching.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 21, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
did any one hear
Lance Z suggest texan pick up TE from stanford. 6’6" 230…kinda like a gronkowski and makes sense since we always seem to come out of a 2 TE set.
PLUS, he will be another passing threat and not so much a TE threat…more flexibility and he will be hell to match up with LB/FS….
I personally LOVE THE IDEA. what do all think BRBers
Houston Texans, 2012-2013 NFL CHAMPIONS
not a bad plan at all.
plus, as a tight end, he is a former tight end. Kubes loves those!
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
by Carter Liles on Jan 20, 2012 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
You know i hear all this draft talk
about the texans and when the day comes, the texans go the other way ….nobody knows anything…even the “experts” admit to it….YET IT IS FUN
JJ Watt was not a very talked about pic
Mario – u know the story
Amobyi – which that one went the other way
Cushing – people wanted mathews
did i miss anyone….
BIGGEST WISH – 365 days of TOTAL to everything texans. would love to be in the war room during draft….who can make that happen for me?
Houston Texans, 2012-2013 NFL CHAMPIONS
When it came down to it, though, all of those were pretty clear picks.
With Mario, we indeed know the story. As nice as hindsight is, Amobi was still considered the right pick at the time. Cushing was a perfect fit and BPA (the Matthews talk was only going on because of the Bruce Matthews connection), and the same goes for Watt. Duane Brown was a surprise, but that’ll happen when teams are targeting a franchise QB or LT. Kareem, of course, was a desperate “need” pick in a weak CB draft… Unfortunate business, that. But for the most part they’ve done things by the book; their second round picks have been pure value as well.
by Nashmeister on Jan 21, 2012 12:03 AM CST up reply actions
I will defer to others with more draft knowledge than me
I think if they did that though they might need to try and trade up in the 2nd to address WR
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
No.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
...and also: NO.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 20, 2012 10:17 PM CST up reply actions
With the possible departure of Joel this would be a perfect fit.
I love OD but a TE like that in this offense that features the TE would be outstanding.
For all the naysayers, TE is becoming the new dominant passing weapon of the NFL. It’s always been a position of flexible players but having great TE play has never been as wide spread as it is now. The way the Texans offense features this position (think Shannon Sharpe here) we could have our own Gronkowski. And that Stanford offense uses the TE a lot like the Texans do so why not? If Joel left this would be a superior replacement.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
This is what i have been saying.
I would not be mad if we draft that guy. Dude is 6’6 240 way bigger the any of our TE’s right now.
I really wish we would've kept Toliver on the practice squad..
..that guy has some intangibles that might really blossom. Granted he matures, gets his hands more consistent and works on his routes.
Jacoby Jones Jr.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
I heard from TC reports that Lestar Jean out performed him in camp and he also out performed him during the PS games.
TC=Training Camp
PS=Preseason
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Exactly what I was thinking.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I kinda added them as an afterthought ha.
I thought “damn he might not know what I mean by TC and PS”.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Well, that's TS
(not PC)
A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving
by Foster Child on Jan 23, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
well I'm glad you bothered to write the meanings of TC and PS
thanks!
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
NT gets my utterly unrealistic vote
I’d love to see us pick up Dontari Poe in the first and bring in a stud WR deeper into the draft. I do like the idea of moving Mario back to DE and switching Watt inside, though …
I can see us going BPA start to finish this year – though clear positions of need in terms of depth are WR, OL, DT
Ever thus to deadbeats
by TimtheEnchanter on Jan 21, 2012 6:53 AM CST reply actions
Dave Ragone!!
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM CST via mobile reply actions
OT: Joe Philbin
What a year in the life for this guy. His son dies and then he has to uproot his family and move from Green Bay to Miami to be the HC.
I don’t know how I could keep it together through that much grief and turmoil. I’m rooting for the man.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Agreed
I wouldn’t be upset if Miami went 15-1 next season. The 1 being to the Texans of course.
by BricAM on Jan 21, 2012 2:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That's assuming the Texans went 16-0, right?
A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving
by Foster Child on Jan 23, 2012 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take that 1st round pick and out right trade for another player or take someones else's 2nd and 3rd round picks. Texans could use those picks to try and to fill the team out some more.
But really FA is going to be huge for this team and will influence what happens in the draft heavily.
Texans going into FA:
Arian Foster and Chris Myers both RFA
Mario Williams, Neil Rackers,Joel Dreessen, and Derrick Ward UFA.
Others:
Jason Allen,Quintin Demps, and Dominique Barber as UFA.
Jon Weeks UFA.
Jake Delhomme and Matt Turk are both going to be left unsigned I believe. (100% on Turk, 95% sure on Delhomme unless they dump Leinart and resign him. Unlikely though).
If we don’t retain Demps and Barber Texans may take a safety in the draft but I expect one or both to be back. Allen may demand a little to much money though. That and there is a bit of a log jam at CB.
With the possible loss of Ward the Texans may take a RB in a later round since that would be cheaper than signing a FA RB. That or they bring in another undrafted RB. Tate will be here 2 more years so they will still have their 1-2 punch for awhile.
I see them taking a WR between rounds 1-4. Rick Smith’s history drafting is easily a needs based one. The thinnest and weakest position on the team right now is WR. Regardless of what happened to the top 3 guys the Texans need more WR’s. Since the very start of the offseason they have been looking for two more guys to fill that 4 and 5 spot. It started with the undrafted trio. The Dorin and Trindon experiments. B.Johnson signing and Derrick Mason trade. And finally Jeff being elevated from PS. NONE of that panned out the way the team had hoped for. I think Lestar (the only guy to show real promise) may win a spot but he’ll have a drafted rookie WR there to compete with.
Other than that the pass offense (249 yards per game with Schaub, 158 without him) isn’t a huge need but the WR corp as a whole whether it’s age (Andre) or lack of depth it’s one that needs help.
Now if Mario isn’t retained I expect another OLB to be taken because that position is pretty thin after Barwin and Reed and would be the second biggest hole that needs to be filled.
ILB is pretty solid with decent long term insurance there but DeMeco could be a cap causality looking at his cap figures. It will be very difficult to keep paying him that which is unfortunate because even coming off that injury in 2010 he’s still a pretty good ILB and one I expect to return to form next season. Interesting to see if he’s sacrificed due to his cap or if they try to keep carrying him.
I don’t expect to see a guy like Shaun Cody leave since his contract expires after next season. But I do expect a NT to be taken since A. Cody will be allowed to walk in 2013 and B. obviously having a starter in training for a full time role in 2013 would be the best thing to do.
I wonder if we see another O-lineman taken due to the depth issues and the play of some guys like Wade Smith from last year. Same for the D-line which is scary weak after the top 3. Tim Jamison was okay in a couple games but overall way to quiet last season to me. He’s starting to look like another preseason superstar. Tim Bulman is in the same boat but not even as good as Jamison. One of those two may be simple let go and I’m leaning towards Bulman being that guy.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
by Ethan Matz on Jan 21, 2012 2:24 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Rick Smith’s history drafting is easily a needs based one.
That was a necessity. The one thing I realized this year was how little talent this team had when Kubes got here.
Yeah the talent is very well rounded which makes trying to predict the 1st round pick difficult.
The Mario,Okoye,Cushing,Kareem,Duane Brown picks are all the obvious needs picks (well Mario wasn’t a RS pick but whatever).
This year I wonder if the team still goes on a needs basis or a best talents available type philosophy.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
I should add that with Joel possibly gone a post above inspired me to think about the taking of aTE.
They’d end up getting another TE some way if Joel moves on. Whether that’s to start along with OD or to back up OD and finally elevate Graham into that other TE spot. He’s got athleticism that really intrigues me but he has such little exposure it’s difficult to tell just how good he may or may not be.
But hey if the TE from Stanford were to fall to the Texans I wouldn’t be mad about that pick. A 6-6 redzone target at TE? I don’t need to tell you about 6-6 Rob Gronkowski or 6-6 Jimmy Graham and what they can do for an offense.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Like i said earlier.
If he falls i will not be mad. He is slated to go in 2nd round though. Would it be a reach? If we somehow can jump up in the 2nd round to get him i will be ok.
Thats only because we've not had a season with him where we didn't have a serious need
This year, the only serious need is WR (or anybody that can get open downfield and catch the dam ball) Andre is the only one who can do that consistently. After that need, the rest are important but not urgent.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
Aside from Dre
Is anyone left from the pre-Kubiak days?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 2:39 PM CST reply actions
Reply fail.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Pre-Kubiak eh?
I guess Turk? That’s it but he was only here due to injury this year anyways.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
I thought Kubiak inherited Stanley
And brought in Turk himself.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Can't remeber. I thought Turk was already here but then again I don't pay close attention the Punters.
Unless he’s not very good.
So I guess if you’re right Andre is the only guy left that Kubiak inherited because I can’t think of any others.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
OK I found it, 2006 was Stanley's last season.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
What a fuck-up Casserly was, and what a mess he handed Kubiak.
I can’t believe he gets presented as an expert on CBS. He did one thing right (Mario) and he gets a rep as a genius.
“Who’s been wrong more than Charley Casserly since he left the Redskins? Wherever he’s been, whatever he’s done, his percentage is like a meteorologist…like he usually is, he’s 100-percent wrong.”
-Bill Belichik
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Well he did take a lot of heat for taking Mario instead of R.Bush.
I guess the genius label comes from so many people having to eat crow and saying “oh well Charlie KNEW! Charlie was right about Mario!” Either way I’m glad he’s not here anymore.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 21, 2012 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
I mean players, but true.
My memory, tainted as it is by years of grudgingly reading the Comical, is that he actually used to field good special teams. Was that ever the case or were they simply less sucky than everything else?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Special have usually been solid.
They were decent this year excluding the ravens game. Very good in coverage and the team had a good year returning punts and kickoffs. Also blocked a couple FG’s.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Then maybe special teams hasn't gotten any better or worse
But offense and defense are so good it now makes ST looks like a weakness.
And even in the Ravens game, Manning got one or two good kickoff returns.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Jan 21, 2012 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
i think its the players.
lot of talented guys with minimal brains on special teams
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
by Carter Liles on Jan 21, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions
It's interesting how the Texans were 7th in the league in average yards per return
at 25.2 with 730 total return yards but were second to last with only 29 KO returns.
But the team did have the second most punt returns in the league last year. Were 5th in punt return yards, 5th in returns over 20+ yards and tied for the legue lead with returns of 40+ yards.
Also one of only 6 teams in the NFL not to lose a punt due to a fumble. Great timing for the first one of the year eh?
Overall it was a great year for ST returning the football. Especially compared to last year.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
I think without all the block in the back calls we could have been better.
ST has been pretty good, what other team has a guy making tackles without a helmet?
I think we should double dip at WR
At this point, Im sold on Sanu at 26. He can block, has good hands, and can run crisp routes AND has the drive to succeed.. I just hope he’ll be around at 26…
2nd Round – BPA. I’d steer towards offense. Maybe a G or a good back up OT. Would not be opposed to another QB here either. Brock Osweiler is a VERY interesting guy.
3rd round – Ryan Broyles. He’s our new PR and is probably going to be a damn good possession receiver – hope it’s with us.
Oline depth we can address in later rounds or UFA – unless a top talent falls in the 1st or 2nd rounds.. Looking at our #1 ranked Oline, most of the guys are late round selections cobbled together and COACHED WELL.
I’d grab another OLB in round 4 and then a ILB in round 5.
by YohannDookeyblue on Jan 21, 2012 7:02 PM CST reply actions
I double dip at WR
too, but I don’t use a WR in the first round. I think we draft oline round 1, and then rounds 2 and 5 we address wr. Maybe even RB late as well that is like a Sproles/speed type.
I doubt we go O-Line in the first. That would be a slap in the face of the best O-Line in the NFL
We’re going WR in the 1st, then NT in the 2nd, then O-Line in the 3rd round
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 22, 2012 5:01 PM CST up reply actions
We don't really need a 1st round NT
Cody/Mitchell are only on the field for one or two downs most of the time, because once the opposing team goes three wide they had LOLB/LDE/RDE/ROLB up front to generate a four man rush with Cush/Meco at ILB to run spies and middle zones to stop slants and draws while JoJo/Kareem/McCain played press to disrupt timing. The only real use for a NT in this system is to make sure they don’t get enough rushing yards on first and second downs to force them into passing scenarios, and considering our rush defense was top 5 even with our NT’s I don’t see a need to blow a first round pick on a brand new one.
by SoCalTexan on Jan 21, 2012 8:15 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Rush defense was "top five"
Because the Texans had one of the highest T.O.P with the lead in the NFL. The game situation didn’t call for the run too often. Said top five rush defense also completely folded against Carolina, New Orleans, and Miami.
And again, I’m not calling for a pure fat-boy — I’m fine with it if it comes to that, but this is about the talent at the position. The Texans could find someone with Watt/Smith-ish talents that is better than Shaun Cody and can be part of a rotation inside on passing downs.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | Football Outsiders | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Jan 21, 2012 11:17 PM CST up reply actions
They were still 11th in YPC allowed.
And “folded” is a strong word for giving up 4 YPC to Carolina’s RBs or giving up two big runs and not much else to New Orleans when Brees was spreading them wide. I charted the Miami game after it happened too, and we gave up about 3.5 YPC up the middle in base formation (the rest came against our 4-man front and through blown containment on outside runs). The run defense certainly never lost us a game, and it was downright dominant in the playoffs, along with every grind-it-out game we played.
If there’s a Wilkerson-type player who can be our DE of the future and play some NT in the meantime, that’s fine. But for the most part, if you’re drafting a guy to be your base formation run-stopper, he’s not going to have the quickness to play on the outside, then you’ve blown a first-rounder on a two-down player.
Said run defense also shut down D. McFadden, Micheal Turner, Ray Rice (second game), Rashard Mendenhall
and MJD (first game). The Texans run defense was also tied for 3rd in fewest rushing TD’s given up.
I agree we can, and should, get a better DT but the rush defense deserved the #4 rank it had.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
and I think I remember that before the 2011 season started
“we” or the Comicle or ABC 13— I don’t remember who, had mentioned that Wade Phillips’ running defense was POSSIBLY going to be the weakness because that was the inherent weakness of the Wade Pilliips 3-4. (Based on the premise that EVERY defense has a weakness). That just shows how impressive Wade Phillips is to be able to shore up that “weakness” and make it dominant when it counts.
I just keep marvelling at what a defensive genius Wade is. He got the guys believing in him, believing in themselves, having fun, and winning.
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
A ream can't have too many TJs:
Not a prototypical deep threat in terms of size but can still take the top off of the coverage. Timed speed shows up on film and has the second gear to run by corners when gets a clean release. Always a threat to go the distance after the catch. Can run away from pursuit. Makes defenders miss with lateral quickness and ability to ruin pursuit angles by changing speeds. Dangerous kickoff and punt return man.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Well, he's at least bigger than Trindon Holliday
However what’s his projected 40 yard dash time?
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 21, 2012 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
If he can do what it says in the quote, who cares?
He’s too little to be much of a blocker, though. I can’t really see taking him unless we have traded down and have extra picks. Then, maybe we could get him with our early pick in the 3rd round, if he’s still there.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
What early 3rd round pick? We're picking at #26 in every round
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 22, 2012 5:03 PM CST up reply actions
Please note:
“…unless we have traded down…”
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 22, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
if he's anything like
Randall Cobb. I’m cool with it.
Yeah 40 time is important
if it is too good, the Raiders will take him.
by Bobbythegreat on Jan 22, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
That won't happen. Remember, Al Davis is dead
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 22, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
He'll be looking for Muppets in free agency.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I wonder if He'll hire his buddy
Robin Hood as a special team coach?
Matt Schoob, Mary O' Williams, Adrian Foster, Jacoby Ford, Kevin Walters, and Daniel Owens are my favorite Texans!
by MeSoLongHorny on Jan 23, 2012 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
No, I don't
Al Davis knew he didn’t know crap about football, & that’s why he constantly kicked him out of the war room. Why do you think he fired Hue Jackson? Because Jackson was a witness to Crazy Uncle Al basically degrading him & he wanted people around him who didn’t witness that because he thought they wouldn’t respect him as an owner if Al Davis didn’t respect him as a successor
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 24, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
“You wrote to me once, listing the four chief virtues: Wisdom, justice, fortitude and temperance. As I read the list, I knew I had none of them. But I have other virtues, father. Ambition. That can be a virtue when it drives us to excel. Resourcefulness, courage, perhaps not on the battlefield, but… there are many forms of courage. Devotion, to my family and to you. But none of my virtues were on your list. Even then it was as if you didn’t want me for your son.”
I'm a man!! I'm forty!!
where is that quotation from?
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 6:18 PM CST up reply actions
Obviously to all BRBers this Texans squad is the deepest ever with no gaping holes at any position group
That being the case we are in a position to take BPA when our turn comes. I would even consider following the Belichick model of trading down, maybe more than once. We are salary cap strapped, so we will be a non-player in FA. Drafting for depth is the most efficient use of cap space. Some of this could change depending on what happens with our own free agents, but I would like to see us add an interior OLineman, a WR or 2, an ILB, a CB, and a DT. I would also prefer another QB drafted rather than sign a vet FA.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are OVERDUE to get to the playoffs, much less the big big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 22, 2012 12:23 PM CST reply actions
If we are drafting to beat the Patriots the WR choice can wait until the 3rd round
We should focus on CB and the pass rush (DE/OLB) first then go for a WR or 2 after beefing up the D. Focus next on interior OLineman, ILB, DT and QB in no particular order. Unless there is a player at 26 that is too good to pass on, I still would welcome moving down to add a pick.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are OVERDUE to get to the playoffs, much less the big big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 22, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
If we're drafting to beat the Patriots, we better have enough offensive playmakers to keep up with them
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Jan 22, 2012 9:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well put
#Texans2011 — Where reality and dreams collide!
~~ Fuzion
"This is a grown dog’s game. Ain’t no puppies out here." ~~ Cushing #56 to Antonio Smith #94
by BattleRedFan on Jan 24, 2012 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
D and running the ball in the red zone
Will be the keys to the Giants beating NE in the Super Bowl. Yes they have a nice collection of playmakers. but without their front 7 putting heat on Brady, they could not out score the Pats.
It took the Astros 44 years to get to the Series, the Oilers-Texans are OVERDUE to get to the playoffs, much less the big big dance...Go Texans!!!!!
by oiler-texan diehard on Jan 27, 2012 8:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I firmly believe we should be drafting an
Offensive lineman with our first pick. For all of you guys touting and chest-beating for a wide receiver: hear me out. As this season progressed, we started to learn a few things: Wade and Kubiak both know what the are doing on their respective sides of the ball, Jonathan Joseph saved our team, and our oline started to become dominant. Now, we should NOT be taking our dominance for granted. While I’m a pretty big fan of Wade Smith, I understand that he is our weak link on that line and that upgrading Brisiel isn’t a terrible option. (I’m also of the opinion that we should kick Winston inside and find a true pass protecting right tackle…but I’m in the minority on this and I accept it.)
However, one thing all great teams do is build quality depth on their line (NE, Giants, Baltimore.) If we can draft a versatile offensive lineman who would be an upgrade to Wade Smith day 1, we can play him inside for now, get his feet wet in our system, and then plug him in as a tackle later on down the road. Offensive linemen get hurt, they can contribute on special teams, and depth at that position offers us plenty of versatility moving forward. We can address WR with the 2nd pick or the free agency (or maybe we give LeStar a chance and he surprises us.) Rookie wideouts, even ‘premier talents’, take too long to contribute (Julio Jones, Crabtree, and Heyward Bey being prime examples.)
oh and
I see no need to draft a QB at all. Yates is our future, we make him our #2, groom him properly, and if we do keep a #3, it should be a veteran. No more rookie QBs for the forseeable future. It’s Schaub and Yates for at least 2-3 years. Done.
I am wondering what Wade and Kubes have to do with my thinking we need a WR?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Not buying it.
There is only one position on the team that exhibited profound lack of depth this season:WR. The fall-off in productivity without Andre was alarming.
Gotta fix that.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Jan 22, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
So, how does it follow that:
we should want to draft an O lineman with our first pick, because Wade and Kubes know what they are doing?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
reply fail
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
B/c
we can stop gap those positions with what is already on our team. I think we draft a position that is going to be the hardest to find and remain dominant at. I never said we don’t need a wr, I’m implying that Kubes and Wade both know how to make due without “premier” talent at certain positions. We address WR (b/c Blackmon and Dwight Jones are probably gonna be off the board), I just think we address OL first b/c it would have the most value for us.
so you are saying that yop know that Wade and Kubes want
to draft an O lineman first?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Oh..i see what you are saying
that Wade and Kubes are good enough to make the WR group we have now work.
I would suggest that they can make the O line that we have work, and that our need for WR is greater than the need for depth at O line.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
right right
that’s what I was trying to say. Our system is built more towards the run and using our TEs to work the middle than taking a bonafide #2 and threatening deep.
No doubt, I see the argument you are making. I think many people would tend to agree with you, however, our oline can be solidified for the forseeable future if we take a high level prospect and use him to fill our interior needs (and later move him outside, where we would ideally play him.) I’m not simply arguing for the “depth” argument, I’m actually saying that oline could become BETTER and that we could build a stalwart oline that is the foundation of this team going forward. And I think this is a prime draft where that option is presenting itself, so we could take advantage of it.
The flipside of course being that I believe that taking receivers early is slightly risky and outside of Blackmon and Dwight Jones, nobody else interests me in the 1st round. (I don’t know much about this receiver class, mind you.)
Random: I think we should draft Fozzie Whitaker somewhere around round 4-7. He’d fit the pr/kr need.
Yes, I see your point, but Andre is all we have for deep threat.
I would argue that our run production is capped out with what we have. Andre makes it good, but if Andre goes down again, our run production diminishes.
I know that some would use this season to argue that our run production would not go down because Andre was out most of the time, and we still ran well. But I’m saying that if we have a deep threat all the time, that continuity of a deep threat will improve the run even better.
So, I think we need to add a deep threat to back up to Andre. Preferably an Andre clone. It is clear that Jacoby isn’t going to be the threat we expected.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
you know Wise
i agree with you on the fozzy thing. i also say that if johnathan Martin falls to us you have to take that guy.
2012 1st round draft pick is...............
So you are saying that you personally know that Wade and Kubes
want to draft an O lineman first.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
reply fail again
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 22, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm perplexed at people with some of their Mocks
Drafting a safety in the first round because they don’t think GQ did a great job. I guess they didn’t watch at all this season lol.
My thoughts are like Brian Cushing on the field: Everywhere.
Those people are just going by stats
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
BPA, but my order of preference would be TE, NT, WR
Before you guys shoot me, I think WR is our greatest need, but at our draft position we stand to pick around the 3rd or 4th WR in the draft, while on the other hand, we would probably have first choice at TE or NT. We might even be able to trade down and have top choice of these two positions. I think the odds of getting an elite TE or NT are much higher than that of WR. I would then take a project WR later in the draft to develop. If we go TE, we could use 3 TE sets and still bolster our offense.
How many of you do not think that adding the next Grontkowski (sp?) or OD to the roster would not have a big benefit? At our draft position I think we have a much better chance of getting an elite TE than we do an elite WR.
I should add that I believe our second biggest need is depth at OL
but zone blocking guys are not in high demand, and we should be able to get a very good player in the middle rounds.
Value drafting is a reasonable argument
I certainly agree on the value draft. I do think thogh that we should balance need with value. If a top receiver falls to us, we garb him first, if not, then go for value.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 23, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
*Though, .... grab
Sheeze…dyslexic fingers
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Jan 23, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
No luxury picks, please.
I’m still quite worried about WR next season, to the point that I’m in favor of taking at least 2 in the draft.
I don’t think we can expect Andre to play a full season, and the drop-off in quality after him is severe. It’s bad enough that I think Smithiak should be looking in the free agent market for some help.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I am getting to the point where I think trying to get a free agent WR might be the way to go
At least then you have a better idea of who you are getting.
I dont see it as a luxury, I see it as an improvement
Would you be comfortable with a line-up with only one WR (Andre) if it had Arian and Casey in the backfield, and both OD and Dreesen on the field with Andre? All five of them are very good receivers, and you would have a very strong run blocking unit as well.
And I am not opposed to adding 2 WR, I am just not sure the value is going to be there in the first round.
It sounds gimmicky to me, and you still have to consider 'Dre's durability issues.
There are enough players on the team now to run that formation, anyway. There aren’t enough quality WRs on the team.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
to run that you would need at least one sub, probably two
and OD has had a lot of injury problems over the years.
Also, if Andre goes down again, who are you going to draft that you would feel comfortable about filling his shoes? I would rather run out an extra blocker at that point and be a more run oriented offense. If that blocker is a TE who is more than capable of catching a pass, I might be in good shape. Put Jacoby or Walters in Andre’s spot and let them try and stretch the field to keep the D honest.
But again, I agree with you in principle. I just dont think any elite receivers are going to be available at our selection.
Perhaps not elite...yet
But there are plenty of guys that we’ll look at that have the potential to become elite receivers. I’d rather take the receiver that runs his routes to perfections, has great hands and is at least respectable at run blocking than one that has maybe one great trait and is just average at the others. Sanu and Toon are perfect examples of receivers that fit my ideal mold, and that I think have a potential to really shine opposite Johnson.
I’d say picking up another TE is a good idea, but I’d focus on OL depth first.
My thoughts are like Brian Cushing on the field: Everywhere.
by f22a4bandit on Jan 24, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
There is a huge difference between an Andre Johnson and someone with potential
so if Andre goes down, I would be a lot more comfortable running Dreesen out there rather than an untested rookie WR. Also we don’t need to spend a first round pick to get a WR with potential, since by most accounts, this draft is deep at WR.
If Kubes and Smith go with Sanu or Toon in the first round, then I won’t complain, but I really think TE is also a viable option, especially if we can trade back, gain a pick, and still get the man we want. You can use the extra pick to pick up a couple WR’s, cause potential to me screams “roll the dice”
WTF is up with this sudden TE mania?
Is there meth in the beer?
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Lets trade back with Philly
If our ‘main guy’ is not there at #26, lets see if we can trade our pick for their first 2nd round pick (46) and 3rd round pick (77). We could still come out with a big WR .. but we might also be able to get that TE from Stanford; a OG (the one from Wisconsin) and maybe a second WR. With 4 picks after the second day, we could add some depth but also the best TE in the draft and maybe Toon or another speedy WR.
that would be awesome
then I would go for NT and LB after that

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