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Tags, Tenders, and Texans: Free Agency 101

This picture could seem incredibly dated soon.  Sad, that.

Tim's post about Arian Foster--- and, more specifically, the comments to that and other recent posts about free agents --- made me realize that there are a number of questions floating around about franchise tags, transition tags, restricted-free-agent tenders, and other assorted free-agency issues. Because it doesn't exactly take John Nash to answer most of these, I figured I'd give it a shot. No, it might not be a truly original idea for a post. But then, I never expected that I would distinguish myself via BRB. That's what my James Earl Jones and Barry White impressions are for!

Anyway . . . we'll tackle this in two sections. First, we'll review the various tags and tenders, including their costs and the rules that govern them. After that, we'll briefly look at various Texans free agents and apply what we learned in part 1 to each of them.

Sound good? Great! Then channel 1/3 of your inner Jonathan Edwards and jump.

Star-divide

Act I: "Already got a guilty conscience. Might as well have the money, too."

So, What Do I Do Now That My Contract Is Expired? Interesting. Your status as a non-contracted NFL player depends entirely on the number of accrued seasons that you have. If that number is 0, 1, or 2, then you are what is known as an Exclusive Rights Free Agent (ERFA). If you have three seasons, you might be a Restricted Free Agent (RFA). And if you have four or more, you are an Unrestricted Free Agent (UFA).

What is an Exclusive Rights Free Agent? Well, like I just mentioned, it's players who are (a) no longer under contract who (b) have 0, 1, or 2 accrued seasons of NFL service. (An accrued season is, generally speaking, a season in which a player he was on, or should have been on, full pay status for a total of six or more regular season games. The main caveat to this is, irrespective of the player's pay status, accrued-season calculations cannot count games for which the player was on: (i) the Exempt Commissioner Permission List, (ii) the Reserve PUP List as a result of a nonfootball injury, or (iii) a Club's Practice Squad.)

ERFA players are can be re-signed by the team holding the exclusive rights if, before the first day of the League Year after the expiration of the prior contract, the team tenders the player a one-year contract with a salary of at least the Minimum Active/Inactive List salary applicable to that player. For 2012, those amounts are:

Accrued Seasons Minimum Salary
0 $390,000
1 $465,000
2 $540,000

I Have 3 Accrued Seasons; Did You Say I Might Be An RFA? Yes. You see, no player is automatically a restricted free agent. To be an RFA, a player must (a) no longer be under contract, (b) have fewer than four years of NFL service, and (c) receive a qualifying RFA tender. If a team chooses not to proffer a qualifying tender to a player, that player becomes an unrestricted free agent instead.

If a team does tender a qualifying offer, the player may negotiate with other teams until April 15. On April 16, if he has not signed an offer sheet from another team, the player's rights revert to his old team. Under all qualifying tenders --- which we'll get to in a second --- the original team retains right of first refusal. Thus, if another team signs the player to an offer sheet, the players original team has a "right of first refusal," a seven-day period in which they may match the offer or choose not to match it. If they choose not to match the offer, the original team is compensated with a draft pick based on what tender was originally placed on the player.

So What Are The 2012 RFA Tenders? The old CBA specified amounts, adjusted annually, that would be "qualifying tenders" for RFA players. Under the new CBA, however, those specific amounts were replaced with amounts for 2011 only, in four tender levels:

Tendered Salary Draft Pick Received
$1,200,000 none
$1,200,000 or 110% of prior year Selection in same round as player was
originally chosen, subject to certain
exceptions
$1,835,000 or 110% Second-round
$2,611,000 or 100% First-round

The new CBA also provides that these amounts will be adjusted annually according to however much the salary cap increases in a given year, with a minimum increase of 5% and a maximum of 10% in any given year. The 2011 NFL salary cap was $120.375M (sorta), and the 2012 cap will be roughly that same amount (sorta), so the RFA tender amounts will increase by the 5% minimum for 2012. The new amounts will be $1,260,000 for the first two levels, $1,927,000 for the second-round tender, and $2,742,000 for the first-round tender. (Art. 2, sec. 5 of the CBA requires that all calculations be rounded to the nearest thousand.)

You Mentioned "Certain Exceptions" In That Table. Yes, I did.

Well, What Are They? There are two, and they both deal with "Upgraded Tenders." If a team offers the first-round tender to any of its RFA players who were originally selected in a round lower than the first, this is an "Upgraded Tender." When this happens, the team can only receive a second-round pick for any player who was originally selected in the first round who did not receive a first-round tender. Additionally, if a team offers the second-round tender to any of its RFA players who were originally selected in a round lower than the second, that team can only receive a third-round pick for any of the players originally selected in the second round who were not given at least the second-round tender.

Stated a little more clearly, if the team slaps a first-round tender on a guy that they originally got in the fifth round (for example), they can't get a first-round pick for a former first rounder by offering him only the $1.26M/original-round tender. This is basically a way to keep teams from cashing in on underachieving first-rounders while protecting other players.

Do Unsigned Tenders Count Against The Salary Cap? Generally speaking, yes. All outstanding RFA tenders count as salary until they are withdrawn or replaced by a June 1 or a June 15 tender.

Wait . . . what the heck is a June 1 (or a June 15) tender? OK, it works like this: the signing period for tenders has to be at least 35 days long and it has to end no later than five days prior to the draft. At the close of the signing period, if the team has not withdrawn the qualifying tender, that team is the only team with which the player may negotiate or sign a contract for that league year. If the player's tendered amount is greater than 110% of his prior-year salary (with all other terms of his prior-year contract carried forward unchanged), the team may withdraw the original qualifying tender on June 15 and retain its rights to the player, as long as they immediately tender the player a one-year contract of at least 110% of his prior-year salary (with all other terms of his prior year contract carried forward unchanged). This is the "June 15 Tender."

Taking it a step further, for any RFA who was tendered at the lowest level and did not sign a contract with any team during the signing period, in order to be subject to the June 15 Tender, the player's original team must by June 1 tender the player a one-year contract of at least 110% of his prior-year salary (with all other terms of his prior-year contract carried forward unchanged) or extend the $1,200,000 offer from the original tender, whichever is greater. This is the "June 1 Tender."

Does It Worry You That You Are Carrying On This Q&A With Yourself? It probably should, but it does not, mainly because I am asking myself the bolded questions in the voice of Professor John Nerdelbaum Frink, Jr. HOYVIN GLAVIN!

Wow. That's Just . . . Nevermind. What Can You Tell Me About Unrestricted Free Agents? They're less restricted than the restricted ones.

Insightful. What Else? UFA players are, as we already discussed, players with four or more years of accrued service who are no longer under contract. They are free to sign with any team during the signing period, and their original team receives no direct compensation.

If a UFA does not sign with a new team by July 22, then he can only negotiate with his original team, provided that the original team made a June 1 tender of at least 110% of either (a) his prior-year salary (if his expiring contract is not a contract that he entered into as a rookie) or (b) his "Paragraph 5 Salary" (if his expiring Player Contract is a contract he entered into as a rookie, and it has not been renegotiated), in each case with all other terms of his contract carrying forward unchanged. And, before you ask, the distinction between (a) and (b) here is that "prior-year salary" means Paragraph 5 Salary plus roster and reporting bonuses, the pro-rata portion of any signing bonus, and any other payments to the player as compensation for the playing of professional football for the last year of the player's most recently negotiated contract, excepting any performance bonuses other than roster and reporting bonuses.

If the original team does not offer a June 1 tender to the UFA, then the player may continue to negotiate with any team after July 22. If he has not signed with any team by the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, at 4:00pm EST, the player is prohibited from playing football in the NFL for the remainder of that league year, absent a showing to the Impartial Arbitrator of extreme team or extreme personal hardship.

How Do Franchise Tags Factor Into All Of This? During a period that begins the 22nd day prior to the start of the new league year and ends on the 8th day prior to the new league year, each team can designate one of its players who would otherwise be a restricted or unrestricted free agent as a franchise player. There are two types of franchise tags: exclusive and non-exclusive. (For 2012, this period is Monday, February 20 through Monday, March 5.) Players who are given the exclusive tag may not negotiate with any other teams, while players who are given the non-exclusive tag may negotiate with other teams. If the non-exclusive-tagged player signs an offer sheet with a new team, the original team has five days from the time they are presented with the signed offer to decide whether to match the terms. If they elect not to match, the team signing the tagged player must compensate the original team with two first-round draft picks, one in the draft for the current league year and one in the following year's draft.

Teams who designate a franchise player of either variety have until 4:00 PM EST on July 15 of the league year (July 16 this year, due to the 15th falling on a Sunday) to sign the player to a multiyear contract or extension. After that date, the player may sign only a one-year contract at the required franchise-tag amount, and the contract may not be extended until after the team's final game of the season. Also worth noting, a franchise-tag designation may be withdrawn at any time prior to the player's signing the tendered offer, and the player would immediately become an unrestricted free agent, free to negotiate with all teams. Meaning if a team franchise-tags a player who would otherwise be an RFA if a qualifying offer were made, they cannot later withdraw the tag and make a qualifying offer to keep the player as an RFA. Additionally, once a tag is applied to a player, if the tag is rescinded or if the tagged player signs a multiyear contract before the start of the season, the tag cannot be reused in that given year.

What Are The Franchise Tag Amounts For 2012? For non-exclusive franchise tags, the amount is the greater of 120% of the previous-year salary or average of the five largest prior-year salaries for players at that position, with the positions defined as: Quarterback, Running Back, Wide Receiver, Tight End, Offensive Line, Defensive End, Interior Defensive Line, Linebacker, Cornerback, Safety, and Kicker/Punter.

If this sounds straightforward, it isn't. The actual calculation of that average is designed to determine the franchise-tag amounts at each position over the last five years as a percentage of the overall cap figure in each of those five years. The calculation, per the CBA, is done by:

(1) summing the amounts of the Franchise Tags for players at that position for the five preceding League Years;

(2) dividing the resulting amount by the sum of the Salary Caps for the five preceding League Years (using the average of the amounts of the 2009 and 2011 Salary Caps as the Salary Cap amount for the 2010 League Year); and

(3) multiplying the resulting percentage by the Salary Cap for the upcoming League Year (e.g., when calculating the Tender for the 2012 League Year, dividing the aggregate sum of the Franchise Tags for players at that position for the 2007–2011 League Years by the aggregate sum of the Salary Caps for the 2007–2011 League Years and multiplying the result by the amount of the Salary Cap for the 2012 League Year) (the "Cap Percentage Average").

The exclusive tag adds an additional wrinkle, as the tendered amount for that tag is the greatest of either of the two amounts for the non-exclusive tag or the average of the five largest salaries in contracts as of the end of the RFA signing period (explained above) for players at the position that the tagged player participated in the most plays in the previous league year.

With all of this in mind, here are the non-exclusive-franchise-tag amounts for 2012 by position:

Position 2012 Non-Exclusive Tag Amount
Quarterback $16,100,000
Running Back $7,700,000
Wide Receiver $9,400,000
Tight End $5,400,000
Offensive Line $9,400,000
Defensive End $10,600,000
Interior Defensive Line $7,900,000
Linebacker $8,800,000
Cornerback $10,600,000
Safety $6,200,000
Kicker/Punter $2,600,000

Of note, other than the QB number, all of these tag values are lower in 2012 than in 2011 due to the new method of calculation.

Now, obviously, because the RFA signing period has not even started, let alone ended, we cannot figure out the exact exclusive-tag amounts. Most likely, these number will be roughly the same as the non-exclusive numbers, as it would take an overall increase of $5M among the top five salaries at a position to increase the tag amount by $1M. More importantly, with very few exceptions, teams almost always opt for the non-exclusive tag, simply because the amounts are slightly lower and losing the player would net them two first-round picks. (In fact, Michael Vick in 2011 and Richard Seymour in 2010 are the only players that I can recall getting the exclusive tag recently.)

And Franchise Tag Tenders Apply To The Salary Cap Even Before They Are Signed, Right? Yup. Outstanding franchise tenders count against the cap until they are withdrawn. Also, if a tagged player negotiates a new multi-year contract with the team after signing his franchise tender, the cap hit for the current season is determined by the terms of the contract rather than the tag amount.

OK, How Does The Franchise Tag Differ From The Transition Tag? The Final League Year of the CBA notwithstanding, a team can elect to use a transition tag rather than a franchise tag in a given season. If a player is designated as a transition player, the team must tender him a one-year contract equal to the greater of 120% of his prior-year salary or the average of the 10 highest prior-year salaries at the position that the player participated in the largest number of plays in the prior year. The 10-highest calculation is done using the same percentage-of-cap methodology as in the blockquote above.

A transition-tagged player may negotiate with any other team between the start of the new league year (March 13 this season) and July 22. If he signs an offer sheet with a new team, the original team has five days to decide whether to match the offer. If they match the offer, the player must sign that same offer with his original team; if they elect not to match, the team gets no draft-pick compensation. If the player does not sign an offer sheet with a new team by July 22, his original team is the only team that he may negotiate with, and the team does not have to make a June 1 or June 15 tender to preserve this right. Additionally, if the transition-tagged player negotiates a new contract with his original team while he is tagged, and he does not sign an offer sheet from a new team, the team cannot use the transition tag again on any player until the newly negotiated contract expires.

Earlier, You Said That A Team Gets "No Direct Compensation" If A UFA Is Signed By A New Team. Ah-ha! Good eye!

Thank You. What's With The Qualifier There? That's where Compensatory Draft Picks come into the picture. There are a total of 32 compensatory picks added on to the ends of draft rounds 3 through 7, and they are awarded primarily to teams that lose more "qualifying free agents" than they gained in free agency the previous year. (Teams that lose and gain the same number of players, but whose losses are more valuable than their gains, may also get compensatory picks, but only in the seventh round.) The round placement of the compensatory picks is determined by a proprietary NFL formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team.

It is important to remember, however, that the compensatory picks are awarded based on the previous year's free agency, so the gains and losses in free agency in 2011 will be reflected in compensatory picks in the 2012 draft. It is also important to note that not every free agent lost or gained is a "qualifying free agent" under the NFL's formula.

Is There Anything Else I Should Know? Probably. For example, are you aware that Italy does not use a king? Also, and more to the point, you should know that a team has to be under the salary cap by the start of the new league year, which might be important in trying to negotiate a long-term deal with a certain player.

Thanks, Freddy Foreshadowing. You are welcome.

INTERMISSION

Act II: "You know what I'd do? I'd take that deal 'n' crawfish, then drill that ol' Devil in the ass."

So, all of that is (theoretically) interesting in the abstract, I guess. But it's (theoretically) far more interesting if we actually apply all of that to the 2012 Texans. And I (theoretically) want to write things that are interesting. So let's, like, do that.

The list of Texans free agents looks like this:

Pos. Player Status
LS Jon Weeks ERFA
RB Arian Foster RFA
S Quintin Demps RFA
QB Jake Delhomme UFA
QB Jeff Garcia UFA
RB Derrick Ward UFA
WR Bryant Johnson UFA
TE Joel Dreessen UFA
OL Mike Brisiel UFA
OL Kasey Studdard UFA
OL Chris Myers UFA
IDL Tim Bulman UFA
LB Tim Dobbins UFA
LB Mario Williams UFA
CB Jason Allen UFA
S Dominique Barber UFA
K Neil Rackers UFA
P Matt Turk UFA

Stuff We Can Say With Some Degree Of Certainty.

  • Because of how franchise-tag values are calculated for offensive linemen, it would cost $9,400,000 to tag Myers. That ain't happenin'.
  • With Owen Daniels already on the 2012 books with a $6,500,000 cap hit, there's no way the Texans are going to tag Dreessen and have nearly $12,000,000 tied up in two TEs.
  • There's no upside for the Texans to use the transition tag in lieu of the franchise tag, so we can basically ignore that option.
  • There are, by my count, exactly two players on that list for whom the franchise tag might be a viable option. (We'll deal with the nuts-and-bolts of the money involved a little bit.)
  • Jon Weeks, an ERFA with 2 years of accrued service, can be retained for $540,000. Granted, I still think it's absurd to carry a designated long-snapper, but that's more of a philosophical difference than an actual reason for Rick Smith & Co. to not sign Weeks.
  • Jake Delhomme and Jeff Garcia are both UFAs, and both should be thanked for their relative contributions and shown the door. Ditto that for Matt Turk and Bryant Johnson.

Dueling Dilemmas

All of which brings us to the meat and potatoes of the entire discussion: what to do about Mario Williams and Arian Foster? So I can get the disappointment out of the way as quickly as possible, I should mention that this section is not going to break down the entire salary cap and come up with a way to sign both of these guys (and Myers). I think it can be done, but that's outside the scope of the post and, to be honest, this post is already sneaking up on 4000 words and a proper salary-cap accounting would take at least another 2000.

No, what I want to do here to wrap this post up is throw out the possible options for each player, aside from the obvious "sign them to a new contract," including what each option would mean vis-a-vis the other player. Hopefully, I'll even add in some speculative stuff that you hadn't yet considered. To wit:

Arian Foster, Option 1: RFA Tender. Without a doubt, should the Texans chose to tender Foster as an RFA, they would use the first-round tender amount ($2,611,000). The upside to this from the Texans' perspective is three-fold. First, it would leave the franchise tag available for Mario Williams (or Chris Myers, though I still say that will never happen). Second, because the only other RFA on the team (Quintin Demps) was a fourth-round pick, tendering Foster at the first-round level wouldn't have any impact on what you could get for other RFAs under the caveats listed above. Third, the cost is over $5,000,000 less than a franchise-tag tender would be.

The downside, however, is that there is a distinct possibility that a team (or teams) might view getting Arian Foster for only a first-round pick as a steal. While the Texans retain the right of first refusal in that situation, a savvy team that wanted Foster badly enough and had enough cap space could sign him to an offer sheet that paid more in the first year or two of the contract, making it much harder for the Texans to match it.

Arian Foster, Option 2: Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag. While this option costs $5M more than the RFA tender, it could be attractive to the team simply because $7,700,000 is pretty fair value for Foster, and the non-exclusive tag gives them the added layer of two first-rounders for protection from another team signing Foster away.

On the other hand, using this tag on Foster (a) prevents the Texans from using the tag on a UFA and (b) only locks Foster up for one year, meaning (c) you have to sign him to a long-term deal next year at the same time that you're trying to re-sign Duane Brown or (d) you'll have to tag Foster again next season for $9,240,000.

Arian Foster, Option 3: Exclusive Franchise Tag. I honestly cannot come up with a reason that the Texans would take this route with Foster rather than the non-exclusive tag. It costs more and has all the same downsides as the non-exclusive scenario, with the added detriment of a higher number next season if the team had to tag Foster again.

Mario Williams, Option 1: Exclusive Franchise Tag. OK, I am well aware that this tag would cost roughly $22,000,000 for Williams in 2012 and that the team does not have that much room under the cap right now. I know this.

At the same time, I know this as well: if the Texans feel like they can get a long-term deal done with Williams, then tagging him now would allow them to work on this deal while preventing Williams from testing the free-agent waters. And --- here's the key --- as long as they got the new deal signed before March 13 (when the new league year starts) and were under the cap on that date, there would be no harm from the amount of the tag. (Likewise, they could rescind the franchise tender prior to Williams' signing it if it appeared that they were not going to be able to sign Mario to a cap-friendly deal.)

Granted, this option is a gamble. If Mario signed the tender right away and a deal couldn't get worked out, the team would be in a world of trouble. Plus, using the tag on Mario means that you can't use the tag on Foster, which in and of itself might make this option too clever by half.

Mario Williams, Option 2: Non-Exclusive Franchise Tag. This would be similar to the previous option, but it would allow Mario to negotiate with other teams and give the Texans the first-refusal option. If another team signed Williams to an offer sheet that was cap-friendly in the first few seasons, the Texans could simply match that offer. If the deal wasn't friendly, they could let him walk and get the first-round picks in return.

Which, of course, is the obvious downside to this deal: the two-firsts price tag would likely prevent some otherwise interested teams from even negotiating with Williams. Also, again, this tag means Foster is not tagged.

***

In the end, my guess is that Foster gets the non-exclusive tag, and the Texans sign him to a longer deal before the season starts. I also think they'll attempt to work out a deal with Williams, only to lose out to a team that can offer appreciably more cash in the early years of the contract. I certainly hope that I'm wrong; Mario's recent comments about loving Houston and the current defense and whatever have renewed the glimmer of hope that I continue holding. But, if I am not wrong, my bigger hope is that he doesn't go to Nashville, Dallas, or Kansas City.

Comment 196 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Wow

Ecstatic that Texans fandom no longer means that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Feb 20, 2012 12:15 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Whatever you want to call it

You made this pretty damned clear. I never “quite” got it all before. It was well worth the read for the educational value.

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 20, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yes, you were too thorough

and, now I have no questions…..

"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster

by Rip Jersey on Feb 21, 2012 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

Just curious, what's wrong with KC?

And what’s wrong enough about KC to anti-prefer it above New York, Philadelphia, or Pittsburgh?
Plus, I doubt Mario would go to KC or Dallas. Both run a 3-4, and he’s made it no secret that he prefers the 4-3. My biggest fear, though, is definitely the Nashville thing. Playing Mario twice a year scares the hell out of me.

Houston Texans: 1 Playoff Win.
Vince Young, Dunta Robinson, and Jason Babin: 0 Combined Playoff Wins.

by T-Moar on Feb 20, 2012 12:15 PM CST reply actions  

My own personal hatred.

That’s all. It would piss me off to hear the KC fans in my family talk about loving Mario Williams.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

why would he scare you, he is never on the field or is hurt, far from intimidating career so far

by damiousrulz on Feb 21, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Riiiight

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 21, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

KC was at one time a Houston arch nemesis

much in the same vein that the BESFs and the cowgirls are today….maybe worse.

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 7:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup. It goes all the way back to when they beat the Oilers in that double-OT AFL Championship game,

when they were the Dallas TEXANS, FFS.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 22, 2012 9:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Lol,

Has anyone ever franchised their Punter / Kicker?

I'm a household name... at my house.

Michael Vick is the best throwing running back of all time.

My put your name on it prediction for the Housotn Texans.
10-6, with a first round playoff upset over either the Ravens or Steelers.

by taylorrohrman on Feb 20, 2012 12:30 PM CST reply actions  

I don't know

However if it ever did happen, I imagine it would of been the Al Davis and the Raiders

Official hype-man of the Flour Bluff Academic Decathlon team
"Puns are the highest form of literature." - Alfred Hitchcock

by thebluffrat on Feb 20, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Actually their kicker may very well be worth franchising.

Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.

"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.

by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 20, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Cleveland tagged Phil Dawson last year.

And Pitt and Seattle BOTH did it the year before that.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

No shit. I've read specifications for control systems that weren't this arcane and fucked up.

Good job by MDC, though. It’s exactly what I’ve been hoping for on the subject.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions  

How come everytime I want a little lovin you mysteriously get a headache?

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on Feb 20, 2012 4:06 PM CST up reply actions  

C.R.E.A.M.

If, in fact, Cash Rules Everything Around Mario (not proud of that one…) than I would look at KC & TB as being the first and most likely suitors. Both teams have $30m+ to spend and (assuming the Texans lock up Arian like they should) he will be the best FA on the market. There is now way the Texans will be able to keep up with them (or anyone else really) in an arms race.

Arian will get locked up here in Houston. Mario’s camp has to know that, but the “I Heart Houston” comments seem to be little more than an attempt to drive the contract figure up. If the Texans are able to lock up both Mario and Arian, then next year at this time we will be waiving g’bye to Conner Barwin and probably Duane Brown. I’ve said this before:

The Texans are not better without Mario, but they can make themselves a whole lot worse by trying to keep him.

P.S. – $20m for Stanford Routt? Good lord…. #smdh

I can run faster horny than she can scared

by DeathBySexy on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

Kubiak believes in you

by JayRedd on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

It's reasonably for Routt.

He’ll be the #2 with B.FLowers the #1 which is how he flourished in OAK with Nnamdi. Plus if they can pull it off and retain Carr as well then that secondary will be one of the better ones in the NFL. They already have a strong front 7.

Dangerous defense they are putting together and they get Eric Berry back as well.

Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.

by Ethan Matz on Feb 20, 2012 9:36 PM CST up reply actions  

So the best thing that could happen

is to come to sign Arian, and tag Mario with the non exclusive tag and hope we get a deal or a team like the Pats sign him and give us their 2 firsts?

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.

by Joe25 on Feb 20, 2012 12:37 PM CST reply actions  

I don't think anyone

is giving up two firsts plus a large contract to acquire Williams. Even (read:especially) the Patriots.

It’s the same reason the tag-and-trade option is not in play: no one (likely) is that reckless.

Kubiak believes in you

by JayRedd on Feb 20, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Oh no

I’ve gone crosseyed again

/legalese overdose

A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving

by Foster Child on Feb 20, 2012 12:41 PM CST reply actions  

this is intense

but nevertheless a good read.

by Gayang3 on Feb 20, 2012 12:53 PM CST reply actions  

Should mention general tender withdrawal for RFAs

If a player has not yet signed his restricted free agent tender, the team may at any point withdraw the tender offer and does not offer a June 1 Tender or a June 15 Tender, the player immediately becomes an unrestricted free agent.

This doesn’t normally happen (teams generally do not tender RFAs they don’t want to keep), but the Jaguars did it recently with Clint Ingram, I believe, when they were making my life generally miserable, and there are probably other examples. I presume this did not change in the new CBA, but have not confirmed it yet myself (because I’m much, much lazier than MDC).

by NewsToTom on Feb 20, 2012 1:36 PM CST reply actions  

Good point.

Meant to mention that, but wrote this in three separate sittings and totally forgot. As far as I know, the new CBA did not alter this.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Mario to the rams with fisher

Three man rotation with Quinn and long. They let long walk after this year.

@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd

by AllenOU on Feb 20, 2012 1:41 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

Yeah. Big, high-1st-round disappointments = team that sucks, and they've had several in recent years.

They need to trade out of #2 overall and re-stock.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Long actually had a pretty good season this year.

He had 13 sacks this year and has 21.5 in the last 2 seasons. No way they let him walk for nothing…

"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett

by Drill Sarge on Feb 20, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Aye.

He was 1st and 2nd among 4-3 DEs in combined sacks, hits, and hurries the last two years. No real reason for them to let him go.

by Nashmeister on Feb 20, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

who thought mario would ever walk for nothing

@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd

by AllenOU on Feb 21, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

MARIO will be a Houston Texan along with Foster

Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!

by TEXSON on Feb 20, 2012 2:07 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Care to share the drugs you're on?

@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd

by AllenOU on Feb 20, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Dreamer.

Mario will be offered Julius Peppers money; he will have to take it. His agent is an asshole if he advises otherwise. (And yes, I know the agent gets richer with the bigger deal. It’s still the smart move for Mario.)

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Peppers money came during an uncapped year.

In that year, 2010, Pepper had a $35 million cap number.

That’s not likely to happen in a capped year.

by willieboyd on Feb 20, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Ooh, right. I forgot about that.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 21, 2012 7:27 AM CST up reply actions  

I have a question.

If we do sign both to contracts that friendly toward the cap for the upcoming season, what happens as that salary increases in subsequent seasons? Even if we were able to sign both, are we going to be able to hold on to them for the majority of their new contracts?

by jkcheng122 on Feb 20, 2012 2:23 PM CST reply actions  

nope

also Duane Brown, Cush, Quin will all need new deals soon

@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd

by AllenOU on Feb 20, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Whether we can sign Quin in a year or two

should not figure into the “can we afford Mario” calculus.

Otherwise, yeah.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Right.

Combine that with the difference between the players at their respective positions and, well . . . .

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

then leave quin out

brown is getting paid. cushing should get a nice chunk. that has to be considered at this point.

Ill give you quin

@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd

by AllenOU on Feb 21, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Unless you're Eric Weddle.

/sill can’t believe how much he made.

But lucky for us Quin is no where near that caliber of a Safety.

Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.

by Ethan Matz on Feb 20, 2012 9:38 PM CST up reply actions  

The idea is that

the cap is supposed to go up significantly in a few years

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Indeed.

Either 2013 or (more likely) 2014, it is supposed to go up by $8 to 10M.

Also worth noting, this season, the $120Mish cap is actually $122M, because teams can borrow $2M from next year.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Correct me if I'm wrong

But can’t a team also borrow about 20 mil from the retirement cap as well?

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 9:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Now that...

is a fascinating question. I’m not sure, but I’ll look into it.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 21, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions  

if they could borrow any money......

sploosh. in my pants.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 21, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

would that be something like a shart but with more force?

"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster

by Rip Jersey on Feb 21, 2012 3:59 PM CST up reply actions  

please tell me your joking.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 21, 2012 10:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha!

Pam

"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster

by Rip Jersey on Feb 22, 2012 9:22 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe Uncle Bob can look through the cushions of his many couches and come up with some extra cash

A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving

by Foster Child on Feb 21, 2012 7:25 PM CST up reply actions  

and I think there are

three cap exceptions of $1.5M this year. Three players with that salary that don’t count against the cap.

TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.

by texanphil on Feb 21, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point.

Usually, the ‘cap friendly’ contracts have larger up front signing bonuses. (more guaranteed). More cash in the first year, lower base salary. The signing bonus is amortized over the contract, the same amount each year. If they cut the player prior to the end of the contract, the remaining amortization is dumped into the cut year (dead cap hit).

It leverages the team. They end up guaranteeing a huge portion of the contract.

Second answer is “no”.

by ahem! on Feb 20, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions  

And let's not forget

right now, we’re playing what-if with Barwin, despite the fact that he has a resume that includes exactly one good season.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

True.

I feel the same way about Cushing. He’s not up for FA until 2014 and with his style of play he may not even live until 2014.

by willieboyd on Feb 20, 2012 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I think you are thinking of Braman

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 20, 2012 6:46 PM CST up reply actions  

lol

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 20, 2012 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

i dare you to tell him that

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 20, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

smart man

i still wish the players would wear retard helmets but they love to be hard headed about their safety.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 20, 2012 6:57 PM CST up reply actions  

There are enough 'shrooms in rural Harris County to keep him going.

Don’t sweat it.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 8:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Is there a rural part of Harris County?

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 20, 2012 9:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure. There are still cattle grazing in parts, especially NE, W & NW.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 21, 2012 7:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess so looking at the map

I am so used to the southern half and how “Houston” spills into adjoining counties. It all seems like urban sprawl to me.

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 21, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's my thoughts on that from another thread.

We’re definitely going to have to commit to our core guys going forward and then fill in the rest with the draft rather than resign all our free agents. Guys like Quin and McCain are only here because they’re cheap. When their contracts are up, we probably won’t be able to resign them. That’s where the rookie contracts come in (paging Brandon Harris).

Considering that, I’d rather let Winston, DeMeco and Myers go and resign Mario. We don’t need high priced offensive linemen.

After next season, I would commit to something like this:

QB: Schaub $10 million (hypothetical extension)
RB: Foster $7 million (hypothetical extension)
FB: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
WR1: Andre $10 million
WR2: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
WR3: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
TE: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
LT: Brown: $8 million (hypothetical extension)
LG: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
C: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
RG: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
RT: Rookie contract/Cheap guy

$35 million to four core offensive players.

A whole offensive line of either young guys or cheap guys? Yep, that’s what we have now. Kubes has shown he can make the o-line work with lower tier talent. A young or cheap WR2? Again, this offense can be top 5 offense with a Kevin Walter-type at WR2, we ha done it three times in a row and we were on pace for a fourth before Schaub went down.

DE: Watt 3 million (technically a Rookie contract/Cheap guy)
NT: Rookie contract/Cheap guy (Mitchell?)
DE: Rookie contract/Cheap guy (Need a 1st rounder here because a cheap vetern starter doesn’t exist.)
WOLB: Mario 12 million (hypothetical extension)
SOLB: Barwin 5 million (hypothetical extension)
ILB: Cushing 6 million
ILB: Rookie contract/Cheap guy (Sharpton?)
CB1: Joseph: $10 million
CB2: Someone good $8 million

CB3: Rookie contract/Cheap guy (Harris?)
FS: Rookie contract/Cheap guy
SS: Rookie contract/Cheap guy

44 million to six core defensive players.

Two young guys at safety is scary, but I offset that with an $8 million CB2.

Overall that would be 79 million to 10 core players. That means we would have 42 million for the other 43 players (with a $121 million cap), which is about right to fill out the roster.

by willieboyd on Feb 20, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

sorry but i cant be on board with that

qb is the most important position and you don’t want 4 rookies starting. cheap guys are cheap for a reason which usually translates to getting your guy killed. if that madden i would be all for it but in real life shit doesn’t happen as easy. you gotta keep quality guys on that line or you will cycle through qb’s worse than we did last year.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 20, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Why would we cut Daniel Manning?

Also Cb2 is not that big of a need contrary to what everyone tends to believe. Name me a team that’s won the Super Bowl with two shut down corners in the last 10 years?

by Slightly Obsessed on Feb 20, 2012 7:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Manning will be worth 5 million per year after next year.

I watched him as a former Bear fan. I think we overpaid out of desperation for a veteran presence last year. He looked great this year because of our pass rush and because we had such horrible safeties the year before.

But if you want, take that $8 million for CB2 and apply it to Manning and stick with Carmicheal/Harris at CB2.

by willieboyd on Feb 20, 2012 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

Horrible safeties ve. Danieal Manning:

not a difficult choice.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand your logic.

I think we will probably draft a safety this year or next, but I think manning’s leadership on and off field and veteran knowledge might be good to keep around for a few more years.

by Slightly Obsessed on Feb 20, 2012 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

The NFL has moved away from hardcore future planning

With all the hiring and firing of GMs and Coaches the NFL has become one of “Janet Jackson” mentality because of the bottom line so it is more of what have you done for me lately as compared to “WE are creating a dynasty” which has not happened in a while… in fact the odds of winning back to back Superbowls is higher than it has ever been and looks like it will remain that way.

Doin stuff so nasty that you have to do it twice to confirm the level of nasty!!

by TEXSON on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions  

New England, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Indianapolis (just to mention the AFC)

all disagree with you.

A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving

by Foster Child on Feb 21, 2012 7:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I think this is actually a good plan

because things change drastically every year. We had our best season after going 6-10 the year before.

Play to win this year. Worry about next year next year. Keep the dead money down, however.

TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.

by texanphil on Feb 21, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Are you Sure about Italy?

I’m pretty sure they use a king.

Oh and " Eventus stultorum magister"

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on Feb 20, 2012 2:50 PM CST reply actions  

The last king of Italy ruled in 1946 and died in 1983.

Italy is a republic now.

Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.

Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.

Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.

I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!

by UprootedTexan on Feb 20, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Additional, the republic was formed in '46. So the last king didn't even rule for more than a year, if that.

Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.

Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.

Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.

I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!

by UprootedTexan on Feb 20, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

That can't be right

Also, Archer Reference

"If my hips had pockets, I wouldn't wear pants at all." @NotBurtReynolds

by papabear on Feb 20, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

The latter.

Certainly, the latter.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Why does this chair have no seat?

And what…is in…HIS ASS?

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

We have the smartest Writers

Thanks for helping make us the smartest fans

True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?

by WreckNTexan on Feb 20, 2012 3:07 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

MDC, if we ever meet in person at an event, your bar tab is mine

Thank you so much for this breakdown of the details!

I think Foster gets the non-exclusive if he doesn’t have the deal signed right away. Surely his agent is looking at the contract right now?

It would be interesting to slap that non-exclusive on Mario and then get the #4 pick from the Rams or #5 pick from Tampa and get Blackmon in the draft.

by MeMongo on Feb 20, 2012 3:24 PM CST reply actions  

"your bar tab is mine"

Sir, I accept your challenge!

Re: Mario, I fear that putting the non-exclusive on him would result in teams sitting back, knowing we’d have to rescind by March 13. The only way that tag really works for us is if talking to Mario ahead of time causes Rick and Co. to think that a DeMarcus Ware-style deal is easily doable.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Nicely done, MDC...

In my view, for Mario’s case, neither franchise designation is a practical course unless the Texans don’t mind placing themselves squarely behind the Salary Cap eight ball. With even the non-exclusive franchise tag, that huge number and the fact that teams must be under the cap by 3/13 gives Mario, and more specifically his agent Ben Dogra, much more leverage in negotiations than a typical franchise player. As put forth in the piece, there’s no way the Texans can accommodate a $22MM salary for Mario under the cap by 3/13 without some serious roster upheaval. It’d almost force them to allow ALL of their other UFAs to hit the market without the ability to make even token offers. If the Texans were to franchise Mario and I’m Dogra, I’d do one of two things as negotiating strategy: 1) immediately sign the franchise tender, which would guarantee Mario that $22MM come what may. OR 2) drag my feet until 3/13, at which point the Texans basically have to ‘piss or get off the pot’ with regard to the tender amount – Account for it under the cap or rescind the tag and let Mario hit the market at the same time he would have anyway.

I don’t see why the Texans would take such a risk considering the other players they could stand to lose out on during a tough negotiation.. A negotiation that could ultimately blow up in their collective face if Mario/Dogra decide that the $22MM is worth taking an injury risk in order to control Mario’s fate AND maximize his earnings. I mean, that amount is basically half of what Mario is likely to be seeking in guaranteed money from a long term deal, and he gets it all THIS year PLUS is unrestricted again in 2013, at age 28. In my mind, franchising Mario gives him and Dogra all the cards. It would be more likely to hurt the Texans in free agency overall than to aid their efforts to retain Mario on a long term contract.

I’ve thought since the season ended that it will ultimately come down to how much Mario really wants to remain a Texan as opposed to getting paid to the greatest extent of his earning potential. If it’s the latter, then he and his agent should welcome the franchise designation and commence to holding McSmithiak’s feet to the salary cap flames. And from the Texans’ standpoint, they can’t go for that… “Noo-o-no.. No can do.”

Andre Johnson <<< BEAST >>> Houston Texans - #80

by BigRon on Feb 20, 2012 3:32 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

I think you're right.

The Texans won’t take that chance re: Mario unless they have some reason to think that he’s amenable to a long-term deal that is cap friendly between now and 2014. If there’s any question, or if there’s been no real discussion, then they won’t do it.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm impressed you typed that entire thing on your phone.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on Feb 20, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Haaaa...

It’s also tougher to tell how much I’ve rambled on the mobile.. And to cut some of the blather out of it. My eyes bugged when I saw that isht.

Andre Johnson <<< BEAST >>> Houston Texans - #80

by BigRon on Feb 20, 2012 5:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Actually, what I think it really means is

Tha Mario and his agent know that the team can’t play games. So, whatever offer gets offered will be the absolute best that the Texans can make.

Texans are gonna have to ebay it…throw your best offer out there and hope it is enough.

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 9:47 AM CST up reply actions  

sooo what your saying is

bye bye mario, myers and foster will be back?

CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES

by Carter Liles on Feb 20, 2012 3:41 PM CST reply actions  

Pretty much.

Yeah.

Though, I will say that I am firmly in the camp that Mario is more important than Myers. I think there are at least three Cs in this draft that can start for the Texans from Day 1. I’d hate to lose Myers, but I’d hate to lose Williams more.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm in the camp

that says it is entirely up to Mario if he stays or goes. If he wants to take less to play for a super bowl contender, he will be back next year. If his goal is to have the most paper in his pocket possible, he will be gone for sure.

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions  

9 out of 10 chase the money

Despite Mario’s comments last week, I see no reason to not put him in that group.

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 20, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I dunno

he just doesn’t seem like that type. I could certainly be wrong about that though. Honestly, I wouldn’t even want him to be on the team for that much even if we had it. That is a lot of money to throw at someone who has never stayed healthy and has had dwindling effectiveness over the last 4 years.

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope you are right, I really do

But saying you want to stay in a system that fits you, etc. goes right out the window when someone slides you a piece of paper that has $100,000,000 written on it.

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 20, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

But he doesn't really have that.

The U.S. Treasury has a lot of it, and we don’t know how well he’s handled the rest .

He will be offered “fuck you” money by another team, which the Texans will not be able to match. He should definitely take it.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't necessarily agree.

Players don’t often find themselves on Super Bowl contending teams, that has to be worth something to them. It’s not like the Texans would be offering 500k and some other team is offering 20 mil

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Some other team will probably be offering ~$90M.

The Texans won’t be anywhere near that.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I agree

but like I said, having a chance to contend for a Super Bowl right now has to count for something. Being on a team where you like the scheme, coaching, and players also has to count for something.

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Have we actually heard anywhere that he likes the scheme?

Houston Texans: 1 Playoff Win.
Vince Young, Dunta Robinson, and Jason Babin: 0 Combined Playoff Wins.

by T-Moar on Feb 20, 2012 9:37 PM CST up reply actions  

There are a lot of people who have in their mind a number that is "enough"

more than that amount is nice, but other things begin to be more important. Mario got nearly 15 mil last year and pretty good the year before that. I’m pretty sure he’ll make around 10 mil if he signs this year.
If he signs a 4 year deal, he’ll end up having made about 65 mil over 6 years, plus whatever Bob has stashed for him in a retirement fund somewhere.

65/6 isn’t shabby by any NFL standards, maybe not the best, but certainly well above average.

If Mario has enough to go buy HPD a bunch of Camaros, then I’d say he has enough to make him happy. I see no reason to not to think Mario will re-sign for an opportunity to go to the SB.

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

I am not knocking his donations

But stuff like the Camaros to HPD are like – “OK, I am gonna lose x dollars to taxes – so I may as well decide where they go.”

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 21, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

He's just making sure that he'll never get a speeding ticket in Houston!

A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving

by Foster Child on Feb 21, 2012 7:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't disagree at all.

And I wouldn’t hold it against him if he left. If anything, it’s a knock on Rick Smith that they let him get to the last year of his deal without a new contract.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

yep...

He gets credit for the recent drafting success. He also gets credit for ending up with Mario and Myers in UFA. I think they did the right thing with Foster.

On the other hand, if Mario continues with the injuries and washes out of the league, he’ll get credit for predicting that…

by ahem! on Feb 20, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair point on Rick letting Mario get to a walk year

Only way I’ve kinda let Smith off the hook for that is figuring it had to have been difficult to assess fair value for Mario’s next deal with the hernia issue and switching schemes and positions last offseason. But still…

Andre Johnson <<< BEAST >>> Houston Texans - #80

by BigRon on Feb 20, 2012 5:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I think Kubiak (or Frank Bush more specifically) put him in that position

By having that bust year in 2010, they had to spend or lose their jobs. I think they woulda given Mario a new deal last year if that season hadn’t been so bad.

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions  

As much as I would love Mario to stay

I would much rather be able to keep 3-4 players than just 1. Myers, Dressen, Brown, Cushing for Mario seems like a good swap to me.

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 20, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah.

Keep in mind, the cap is going up at some point. It’s not impossible to keep Mario, Myers, and Brown in this scenario (and I don’t think Dreessen matters enough to factor in). The question is whether the parties involved with put in the effort to make this a reality.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Good points about getting some breathing room.

As for clearing out some dead wood from the roster now to free up space in 2012, who do you see the knife pointed at right now?

Jacoby – $3M
Ryans – $6M ?
etc

by MeMongo on Feb 20, 2012 4:08 PM CST up reply actions  

I could definitely see Ryans being a cap casualty

unless he wants to restructure. With Cushing as the nickel/dime LB, Ryans isn’t worth the contract he signed, sadly.

I need to look closer at Jacoby’s deal based on something I heard the other day. I mean, I think he’s on the short list to be cut if space is needed, but I want to double-check the numbers before I say anything more than that.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

DeMeco re-structured last summer..

Some time after the Joseph & Manning deals. TexansDC and I tweeted about the fact that his cap numbers after that re-structure are unclear, as the new terms weren’t published at the time. I’d be interested to know what his figures actually are now and if there’s still wiggle room.

Andre Johnson <<< BEAST >>> Houston Texans - #80

by BigRon on Feb 20, 2012 5:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

If it's a typical restructure

by which I mean, converting guaranteed base salary to a bonus so it can be spread out, then it’s likely he will be due to make more this year.

It’d be interesting to know for sure though, yeah. I’m guessing the reason that you haven’t heard much about him possibly being let go is because it would lead to only a small cap savings in comparison to having to wrangle up another ILB … especially now that there is more of a cap hit for the upcoming years thanks to the restructure.

by riversmccown on Feb 21, 2012 3:33 AM CST up reply actions  

Mumford rec'd for saying what I was about to post...

Would you rather have Foster/Myers/Brisiel/DBrown/Cush or Mario?

It’s gonna be that simple. You let Mario go, you get great flexibility to address anything & everything else all over the field for the next few years. Yeah the cap is increasing sometime soon, but let’s stay flexible and address other needs we might face. I don’t think anyone on the roster doesn’t want to be a part of what’s happening here, but Mario is worth wayyyy more on the open market than he is to Houston, so the Texans shouldn’t pay that price. That’s the truth.

by The Arian Race on Feb 20, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Much like Quin and Dreessen

I don’t think Brisiel factors into this discussion in the least. Otherwise, I agree.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions  

You're right...

I considered him significantly more important than Quin & Dreessen, but definitely the least important of those I mentioned.

And for clarification — I’ve always been a Mario follower since college (I went to UNC, so I saw him a lot) & big fan since he was drafted. (I’m not in that other camp.) The guy is in a position for a big payday and he should get it… elsewhere.

by The Arian Race on Feb 20, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I am starting to wonder if I would want them to sign him to a huge deal even if we had the cap money

Even if you want to say he has only missed major time one year, he has played injured every year which according to people associated with the team affected his performance. If Mario was not one of our guys, would we want to sign a person like that?

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 20, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah but

he’s performed very well WITH injuries. As long as they don’t force him to miss games then he still seems to produce. Why not take his low stats (/sarcasm) and hope he plays an entire season healthy?

Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.

by Big T33 on Feb 20, 2012 4:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Well he has only played

one entire season healthy, it’s not all that likely that he will ever play a whole season healthy. I certainly wouldn’t want my team throwing a monster contract at a guy who is coming off of 2 seasons that ended on the IR and has only one healthy season ever. It’s just too likely that he will miss time in the future to throw that much at him.

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 4:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree he has played well considering the injuries

But has he played well enough to justify being one of if not the highest paid defensive player ever? I say no.

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 20, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

No, he hasn't,

but there is no shortage of idiot franchises who will pay him a fortune anyway.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 20, 2012 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Your premise is correct.

But if you’re implying that Mario’s contract is going to be equivalent to those five players’ contracts combined, then your numbers are way off. Foster, Cushing, and Brown (assuming he proves 2011 wasn’t an aberration) are all likely to make over $7 million per year. I’d peg Mario in the $12-14 million range, and even that seems high (remember last season when Asomugha was going to get $15 million per year? Yea…).

Furthermore, they’re going to re-sign Brown and Cushing no matter what else happens. So a better trade-off might be Foster + Myers versus Mario. Or if you want to go outside the organization, Dwayne Bowe + Myers versus Mario. I’m a frequent user of this argument, but I think people are overstating the type of contract that Mario is going to get. Regardless, whether it’s $14 million per year or $10 million per year, there’s going to be a trade-off at some point.

by Nashmeister on Feb 20, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions  

"I think people are overstating the type of contract that Mario is going to get."

I agree. It’s entirely possible to write a deal that give him $6M this year, 8-9M next year, and then escalates after that. People are acting like Mario is getting $22M guaranteed (his cap number) in a new multiyear deal.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions  

It's entirely possible

that the dollar amount on his next contract might average $22M. Not likely, but possible. But that doesn’t mean his pay in 2012 and 2013 will be anywhere near that.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I wasn't implying equivalence...

but the way I see it is Mario and losing a few key pieces (some, not all), or keeping every piece but Mario. There will almost assuredly be a team out there who will make him an offer that is cap-obliterating for the Texans to match. (Going back to MDC’s write-up, he agrees.) I know I’d feel differently had Mario not gotten hurt and we didn’t get to see our bulls still parade without him this season, but so would the Texans’ FO.

Could the FO get creative and retain everybody? It’s possible. I don’t like that strain, though… and I dislike the idea that everything has to play out perfectly. Football fans in Houston know that doesn’t happen.

by The Arian Race on Feb 21, 2012 2:25 AM CST up reply actions  

My guess is that his magic number is an even 10 mil.

Arian is gonna get Franchised or a long term deal for the same pricetag (7.7)
Meyers is gonna get 4.5
OD will restructure so his cap hit is 4 – 4.5,
They will work something out with Studdard and Brisiel

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd for the suggestion to put this post next to the glossary for the next few months.

///TIM???? Can this be done?

"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli

"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson

"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock

Never try to baptize a cat.

by texanslady on Feb 20, 2012 5:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Done

Thanks to BFD.

Ecstatic that Texans fandom no longer means that April is the highlight of my season...

by Tim on Feb 20, 2012 6:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Thank you.

"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli

"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson

"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock

Never try to baptize a cat.

by texanslady on Feb 22, 2012 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Great Post

In the recent past, what type of free agent loss equates to a 3rd round return? Do multiple average player losses have more impact than losing a Mario Williams? Is Joel Dreesen worth any form of comsenatory pick?

I know a 3rd round compensatory pick is nowhere near as valuable as Mario but it is a much more attractive than a 7th.

by CoogmanSam on Feb 20, 2012 4:30 PM CST reply actions  

Don't know off the top of my head.

Generally speaking, salary is the biggest factor in that compensatory equation. So if you lose a player who is making $6M+/season elsewhere, that’s going to net you more than a guy (regardless of position) making less than that.

Might make for a good post, though.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 4:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Depends on total players lost and total players signed

Contracts, playing time….

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Feb 20, 2012 5:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup.

But, as long as players lost is = or > than players signed, the contracts/salary of the players involved is the most important factor.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm sorry but mario is not staying

everyone who says that houston is his best chance at winning a super bowl is wrong. we had our chance last year and it didnt happen. no one knows what the future holds for us and this team could actually get worse. with that being said, mario only has one chance to cash in and this is it. he will go to a team that is willing to pay him 16-18 per season and he will get his ring after that contract is up. he should still be servicable at that point and he can sign for a minimum vet contract and an established contender.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 20, 2012 4:43 PM CST reply actions  

Or he gets hurt

during that time (as he seems to every year) and his career comes to an end without ever having the chance of being on a real contender.

by Bobbythegreat on Feb 20, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions  

If someone's signing him to 16-18M a season...

That’s a terrible deal. You’re talking Brady/Manning money.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Feb 20, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

You have a selectively bad memory

Peppers was older, had said many things about about what defensive scheme he wanted to play in, and had a few very lackluster seasons in Carolina right before he hot the market.

by b0ng on Feb 21, 2012 8:25 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Peppers had 10.5 and 14.5 sacks

The two years before he hit the market, and 14.5 was his highest ever. The “lackluster” season you are referring to was back in 2007.

Peppers was only 2 years older and only missed 2 games since his rookie year. That’s the risk I was referring to versus Mario, not selective memory

by Jason Brown on Feb 21, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

maybe but snyder and jerrah are the types of gms who fork over a lot of money in the beginning

and then get burned with dead salary space after that. if al davis were alive that type of deal would not be so out there.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 20, 2012 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Last year was not our best chance

No one expected us to go 2 games deep, we ended up with the record most of us expected (10-6) and that was with injurys out tha wazzu.

We were decimated with injurys, we never really had a chance. After Schaub went down we were lucky to make the playoffs at all.

I’m pretty sure most of us thought of 2011 as a foundation year (foundation of a playoff team, defense fixed), rather than a run year. I sure did. I do rememeber a bunch of posts where folks said they would be happy if we made it to the playoffs, implying that next year would be the year we make a run for the SB.

Our optimism about making an SB run this year didn’t start until mid season and that came as a surprise, which was dashed by fat albert

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 21, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

There is that decimated word again

I believe were were way more than decimated…

Decimated would only mean 1 guy on offense, 1 guy on defense, and 1 guy on special teams…

"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell

I am Barry - I am from Texas

by Barryfromtexas on Feb 21, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions  

That's what I thought before I lost an argument.

“Decimate” has figurative meanings beyond the literal one that are accepted.

I still thinks it’s careless usage, though.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 22, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions  

This is true...we would actually only have 5.3 men on IR

if we were decimated. I guess we were actually quinquemated.

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 22, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions  

septumated, if you count Andre and Foster's time out as well.

If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan

by professortex on Feb 22, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Luckily we sign character guys...

Wouldn’t want to be deviated, septumated. I hear that causes snoring.

by ahem! on Feb 22, 2012 6:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Outstanding post.

@BigT33: I’ll do that right now.

A Texans fan. Really. No, I'm not kidding.
http://www.battleredblog.com
"Blind fandom is all I got left." - LoneSpot

by bigfatdrunk on Feb 20, 2012 5:24 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks BFD

Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.

by Big T33 on Feb 23, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Also

Does anyone have a definitive source for how much cap room we have? I’ve heard everything from 3 to 19 million.

Check out The Dream Shake.

by Patrick Harrel on Feb 20, 2012 5:28 PM CST reply actions  

Most realistic number I saw

was about $6.5M, not counting the $2M you can borrow from 2013.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Restructuring or extensions...or cuts

I know Mr. Smith has earned himself an extension.

"Lord, beer me strength."

by TexansDC on Feb 20, 2012 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Going through Spotrac's 2012 cap numbers...

I have us down for just under $98 million with 38 players under contract. However, they don’t include many of our late-round draft picks and they have no info on Vickers or Dobbins (who might be getting $1.9 million if we’re paying the final year of his Miami contract). I’m not sure how the practice squad is treated, but we had several more league-minimum types who were on the active roster at some point last year. I’m guessing we’re at about $102 million not including dead money.

by Nashmeister on Feb 20, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions  

So that would leave us roughly 18 million before cuts/restructures?

That should me more than enough to resign everyone except Mario I would think. Cut Jacoby and Leinart and we should have enough to resign Foster, Myers, Briesel, Dressen, and Rackers with some left over.

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 21, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

me=be

Fail.

"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce

by Mumford on Feb 21, 2012 8:27 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, we might have $8 million or so in dead money.

I reckon we’re sitting at about $11 million in cap room. I think they’ll flesh that out to about $16 million after a few obvious cuts. Not sure what they’ll do about Rackers, but it should be enough for the other four you mentioned.

And if anyone is curious, we currently have about $82 million committed for 2013. And of course, it doesn’t include Schaub or Duane Brown.

by Nashmeister on Feb 21, 2012 9:04 AM CST up reply actions  

rec'd for the Jonathan Edwards link

one of our greatest athletes ever, was in the audience of a talk he was giving to some Olympic volunteers and he seemed like a great guy too… I’ll actually read the piece now haha

by EnglishTexan on Feb 20, 2012 5:38 PM CST reply actions  

I was hoping

that you would be the one to catch that reference.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Reading back what I wrote, I was gonna read the piece anyway haha,

the Jonathan Edwards reference just made me smile, really interesting write up… I really want Mario back, but I don’t want to mortgage the future on his contract.

If we let Mario walk, would there conceivably be cap room for an upgraded CB2 such as Brandon Carr? I understand two shutdown corners is not necessarily “essential” for a championship team, but if we lose a bit of the pass rush Mario would give us, surely it wouldn’t be a bad compromise?

This could also lead to Kareem possibly understudying a safety, where I think BFD and maybe others think he’d more likely succeed, and then you could have Harris and Carmichael as your reserve CBs.

Is this feasible?

by EnglishTexan on Feb 21, 2012 7:29 AM CST up reply actions  

The problem with this is that it leaves us still thin at OLB.

We got away with it last year, but if Reed or Barwin goes down, the D will be hurtin’. If Mario leaves, this will have to be addressed.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 21, 2012 7:51 AM CST up reply actions  

but then I'd say we would look to draft an OLB for depth

you’ve already got Nading and Braman who are decent depth, and then a 3rd/4th round rookie to go with them lets say, including a full offseason’s coaching with Wade… I think that would be sufficient.

I don’t follow college football so I have no idea on any plausible 3rd/4th round OLBs we could take, but I just think a better secondary would help mask a slightly worse pass rush, in the same way a good pass rush can help mask a substandard secondary.

Therefore losing Reed or Barwin wouldn’t be quite as bad, because the secondary would be in better shape. Are there notable free agent OLBs who can be had on the cheap this year? I’m not aware of any tbh

by EnglishTexan on Feb 21, 2012 8:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Nading and Braman? Meh, if they are that good, why did Barwin & Reed play almost every snap

until the final giveaway game against the BESFs? I keep thinking about Barwin’s remark to the effect that the games were exhausting for him and Reed. Apparently, Wade didn’t think enough of their backups to give them a break very often.

The pass rush is the key to the Texans’ pass defense. When it is working, the CB2s are sort of adequate; when it’s not, they get lit up. I don’t know what the answer to OLB depth is going to be, but if I Mario leaves, I’d rather they spend FA money there than on another CB.

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 21, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I see your point on that

but maybe Braman will develop some more with a full offseason with Wade, he was only a rookie. I know it’s subjective but I think he has a fairly big upside, to the point he can rotate in more this year given coaching… Nading maybe not so much, but still cheap depth. Is there a FA out there noticeably better than Nading who we could get cheap? I don’t know tbh.

My point is though that if you were to bring in Brandon Carr, who from what I know is a pretty decent CB, our reliance on pass rush wouldn’t be so necessary, because the coverage would be better on the back end and so the pass rush would have longer to get there. Therefore you could afford Braman/Nading/Rookie rotating in more often because the secondary would afford them more time to pass rush.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for Mario to fit in under our cap with everyone else, leaving us an amazing pass rush and an average CB2, but I just think this could be another way to look at things, in a way that remains cap-friendly to the Texans this year.

by EnglishTexan on Feb 21, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

So there's no way we could be like the Carolina Panthers

and how they signed Charles Johnson and Deangelo Williams to long term contracts? They probably had a bunch of cap space right?

by FLASH94 on Feb 20, 2012 6:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

yup they did.

and we could but it would have to be creative. like divide whatever cap space we have evenly between both and then add on the remainder in the coming years. unless bob can pay them on the side. then we have no limit.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 20, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions  

They did.

And, as far as I know, they were nearly $7M over going into the 2012 league year. So there’s definitely a trade off.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 20, 2012 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I just checked Johnson's contract and he got a

30 million signing bonus. Wow thats a lot and i dont know if McNair would do that. I hope everything works out , but ultimately I just want a superbowl title for the Texans!

by FLASH94 on Feb 20, 2012 7:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Seriously

I still don’t know what they were going for, especially when they had 2 cheaper, younger effective guys behind Williams

by Jason Brown on Feb 20, 2012 10:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I've seen a lot of cut Demeco comments

and I want to know what will be his cap hit if he is cut. Does this mean Dont’a Hightower could be our pick?

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.

by Joe25 on Feb 20, 2012 10:11 PM CST reply actions  

His cap hit is $7,150,000

Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.

Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.

Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.

I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!

by UprootedTexan on Feb 21, 2012 12:37 AM CST up reply actions  

so why do people suggest cutting him?

and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."

Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.

by Joe25 on Feb 21, 2012 5:20 AM CST up reply actions  

That's his cap hit

if he’s paid the full amount of his contract for 2012. If he were cut, the hit would be $5M. You could spread that over two years. Then, while it costs you $2.5M to cut him, you still save close to $5M in cap space this year.

I have not yet begun to defile myself.

The Two-Day Hangover @ Battle Red Blog (2011) & SBN Houston (2010) | Twitter | About MDC

by MDC on Feb 21, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions  

nfl needs an amnesty

the nba did it, and i think it’s brilliant. it would motivate the cj2.3’s of the nfl.

by HTown80 on Feb 21, 2012 12:53 AM CST via Android app reply actions  

no it doesn't.

teams need to spend their money a lot better. stop signing overrated and lazy players to so much money thinking that it will motivate them. the good franchises build they right way and let players who have served their use or can be replaced. they hold on the their cornerstones. pittsburgh, new york giants, pats, eagles, and baltimore do this. they minimize their risks by doing their homework and making sure they have backup plans to their main ones.

they don’t always win the title but they stay relevant and part of the playoff picture ie. contenders.

- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.

"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers

"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.

by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 21, 2012 2:08 PM CST up reply actions  

^^This.

It has become obvious the Texans are sticking to the “long-term contenders” plan.

That is a good thing. The alternative is something like Snyer’s Redskins. /shudder

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus

by FreedomRide on Feb 22, 2012 9:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Thank you for this.

there is no other site or publication that would go into that type of detail. Thank you sir. Once again thank you.

Oh…here it goes..if I get in trouble I apologize to the community. Give us more FUCKIN insight like this!

by Fastalkerus_Prime on Feb 21, 2012 5:14 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

Thank you for this.

there is no other site or publication that would go into that type of detail. Thank you sir. Once again thank you.

Oh…here it goes..if I get in trouble I apologize to the community. Give us more FUCKIN insight like this!

by Fastalkerus_Prime on Feb 21, 2012 7:22 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

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Absurdly Talented Writers

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Absurdly Talented Writers, Part Deux

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