Texans' 2012 Salary Cap Situation
by texanphil on Feb 6, 2012 3:50 PM CST
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PrintThis guy did a great job laying out the Texans' cap situation heading into this offseason.
Here are the highlights:
- We paid Dan Orlovsky a ton of cap money this season to beat us, and we'll do it again (cap wise, not beat us [hopefully]) to the tune of $2.2M in dead money.
- Speaking of dead money, Tim will be glad to hear Amobi will cost us $3.6M in cap space, and he still isn't old enough to drink.
- He doesn't think the cap, which apparently will be released soon since the season ended yesterday, will increase.
- We get money to sign our rookies outside of the cap, but our pool is based on where we draft, and may not be enough to cover signing all of them (he estimates $4.5M for the whole class).
- That leaves us with a bottom line of $25.6M of cap space, without releasing anyone.
What is the best way to spend Mr. McNair's money? And how much can we save cutting/restructuring some other players?
If Jacoby getting cut helps us to the tune of $4-5M, I think we can sign our big 3. We'd start the process with only 75% of our cap tied up.
One thing to note: you can rollover your money, and I hear 2013 is a big one, since we drafted well a few years back.
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Kevin Walter
in 2010 he signed a 5 year, $21.5M with $8M guaranteed.
Spotrac says his cap hit for the first year was $8M, which would be the case if we didn’t pro-rate his bonus.
So he would save us $3.5M if we cut him, and no dead money.
Probably not gonna happen, but this is interesting if there’s no dead money involved.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Jacoby Jones
$3M base salary, $300k in dead money if he’s cut before June 1st.
This looks like a possibility.
That puts us at $28.3M to spend.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Far more likely Walter gets cut than Jacoby.
In fact I think’s there’s a less than 10% chance Jacoby is cut. And Walter might only get cut because his contract is way to big.
Kinda easy to forget the Texans pass offense was pretty solid before Schaub went down. I doubt there’s panic in the franchise to get new WR’s but they will be looking for some fresh blood after looking all last year for that 4th alternate guy. Tried 3 undrafted rookies, Trindon, Bryant, Mason, and Maehl. And of course to have that guy “waiting in the wings” on the team that can day one get snaps rotating in on offense.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
agree about them not panicking
but I hope you’re wrong about which of the two-headed WR2 they keep.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
i still don't understand why walter would get cut.
he has been really consistent and has provided good production. not great but good. he is money when it comes to 3rd downs. jacoby should be cut on principle. he fucked up during the playoffs and he will never ever be forgiven for that. his bags are packed and he should not be a texan ever again.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
WR2 is the Texans 5th option
on offense and Walter could save us 3.5 mil if we cut him. I think he is easily replaceable and that cap space will help the team much more than he would as a player.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
here is my problem with cutting walter
who is his replacement? how has he fared in other offenses? can he do the same in ours? will cutting walter end up hurting us more in the long run?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions
My point is that he is not that valuable to the team
since WR2 is not that important, I think an average replacement player could do everything we ask Walter to do for less money. Hell we might even be able to draft someone that could do every bit what Walter does for us and more.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
okay but who?
i don’t hear names and that’s what bothers me. realistic names. not dumb shit like t.o. or moss or jerry rice. actual wide receivers who fit the mold and costs less than 3 million a year.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions
Manningham?
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
the question mark is troubling.
and there is no way that the giants would let him walk for 3 million
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions
just a suggestion
there are plenty of WR that can come in and play No.2 for us. They just need to block…
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
by Joe25 on Feb 6, 2012 11:34 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
i still say we keep walter until we know who his replacement will be
even then kubiak has to be convinced that he is worth releasing. don’t think that will happen.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
I just don't think
that he is all that important to the team
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
hell i don't think shaun cody is worth shit
yet he is still part of the roster and a starter nonetheless. it’s all about what the coaching staff believes. what we think doesn’t matter.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:45 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
but I think that the coaches know that he isn’t worth tying up 3.5 mil that could be spent elsewhere, if they manage to get enough money, they could always go after a guy like Reggie Wayne who is older but still productive, it would be a “win now” move that would make the Texans pass game much better.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:48 PM CST up reply actions
nope
reggie wayne puts us in a worse position. plus he already has a ring so he will go for the money. hopefully we don’t spend it on him
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
I don't see it that way
I think he would like to team up with Andre Johnson and make another run at winning it all, he could be had for 5 mil or so and would drastically improve the team.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:53 PM CST up reply actions
Another possibility
is we could sign Ted Ginn Jr for cheap and he could easily take the place of Jacoby Jones and Kevin Walter.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
Ted Gin is only a return man
He’s only caught 31 passes the last 2 seasons. He’s caught 6 career TD passes in 5 seasons. He’s not an upgrade at WR2.
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Kevin Walter had 474 receiving yards
last year, Ted Ginn had 466. Sure Ginn isn’t a superstar WR, but neither is Walter, and Ginn can return kicks. Ginn will probably be cheap and would be an improvement.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:20 AM CST up reply actions
Ted Ginn had 220 yds last year
He only has 2000 yrads reciving in 5 years. Kevin Walter has almost twice that much, and 23 career recieving TD’s. I think Walter would be better as number #3 at this point in his career, but Ginn is a worse WR than walter and Jacoby. Excellent KR, but has never shown much in the NFL as a reciever.
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Yeah I read that wrong
sorry. Ginn had half the receptions though, I think he is every bit as good a receiver as Walter. Either way, my point was that there are cheaper options.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
He's just so dang small
5-11, 180. That’s 4 inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter than Jacoby. That’s 4 inches shorter and 40lbs lighter than Walter. Can he hold up being asked to catch 50 passes? When the Texans had a healthy QB from 2007-2010 Walter averaged almost 800 yards and almost 60 catches a season. Ginn has never been asked to touch the ball that many times. That’s a lot of wear and tear for a guy who probably weighs somewhere in the 170’s…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Well
neither Jacoby or Walter caught 50 passes last year, why would you expect that?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 1:01 AM CST up reply actions
Also
Ginn had 56 receptions in 08, Jones has never had that many in a season.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 1:02 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm not the Jacoby fan
I think it’s time the Texans cut ties with him. Walter caught 27 passes in the games he played with Matt Schaub. Once Schaub went down, they started running the shit out of the ball and dumping it down to the RB’s and TE’s. He probably would’ve had about 50 catches again if Schaub doe3sn’t get hurt and he plays in Week 2 and 17 (they sat him down with most of the other starters in week 17)
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
no one should be a jacoby fan at this point
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 1:33 AM CST up reply actions
i would sign ginn over jacoby on return ability alone
hell i would sign jamarcus russell on return ability alone. he would at least fall forward and actually be smart enough to let the ball go.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
Ginn is just another Jacoby
that is why Miami traded him.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Ginn is better than Jacoby as a return man
The difference is that they wasted a Top 10 pick on him whereas the Texans used only a 3rd round pick on Jacoby. Ginn wasn’t worth Top 10 pick money, but at least he’s a more reliable return man than Jacoby
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
I could live with that since I don't think we're finding a viable return man in this draft
However, I see Ginn more as a #3 WR in the Texans offense. That being said, I could see a WR group with Andre, Lestar Jean, Ginn, & two rookie draft picks
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:40 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
that’s probably how I would see it, and it would be a lot cheaper.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:42 AM CST up reply actions
Little too much youth for my taste
I’d like another vet in that group that’s more reliable than Ginn.
Kubiak believes in you
Eddie Royal??
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Royal is interesting
but is likely to fetch more than 3mil, and his build is best suited for the slot only role.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Call me crazy, but I think we are going to draft RB/return man in the 3rd/4th
We need a 3rd running back because I don’t think Ward will be back, and he’s getting pretty old as well. That Return man RB will be…Lamichael James. If you remember when we drafted Slaton, it was supposed to be for that slot, young return man/3rd down back. I don’t think he’ll be a top 75 pick, because of his size, but our new 3rd down RB/KR…I’m intrigued…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
I doubt it. He won't get past the Bucs in the 3rd
He’s exactly what Tampa Bay needs behind Blount
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:53 AM CST up reply actions
I'd draft Cyrus Gray
for a 3rd back. Not a KR, but a better scheme fit.
I’d like to find our KR out of a mid-rd DB myself.
Kubiak believes in you
The reason why I say this is because he can return Kickoffs AND punts
Not everyone can return punts. It’s a much more difficult skill than returning Kickoffs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-owIwj5AYM&feature=player_embedded
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Ted Ginn can do that too
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 1:02 AM CST up reply actions
yeah but a 3rd round pick make only about 500K his rookie year
It’s much cheaper to have a young guy as a KR than a vet KR. It’s a luxury to pay a vet that only returns Kicks and does little else. That’s why Darren Sproles was such a find for NO. He’s elte at 2 spots KR and RB. He save’s you a roster spot, therefore, he saves you cash…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Again, James won't make it to us in the 3rd round
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 1:13 AM CST up reply actions
You're probably right, but
my prediction is that we don’t make our picks i our spots. I think we end up with no first rd pick, 2 second round picks, move up in the 3rd round and end up with an extra 5th rd pick. Kind of like what happend last year, excpet will be trading out of the first rd. My guess will be with Cleveland. We’ll get their 36th pick and they;ll take our 26th. we’ll flip 3rd rd picks and get an extra 5th. I think that would help both teams…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
I don't see that much movement happening
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 1:21 AM CST up reply actions
the great thing about the draft is that you never know
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 1:27 AM CST up reply actions
It's really not that much movement
Cleveland wants to get back a 3rd elite player who is falling to the bottom of the first round (they have their pick and Atlanta’s pick already). I think they Take Blackmon with #4, Richardson with Atlanta’s pick, and they want Tannyhill. They take Houston’s pick and Houston drops down to their 2nd rd pick (36) in return the Texans and Browns flip 3rd round picks (Houston takes the 4th pick of the 3rd round and Cleveland takes the 26th pick of the 3rd roud) Cleveland would then throw in A 5th rd pick to make the values add up.
Is it going to happen? maybe. I think it’s not the craziest scenerio out there. Like I said earlier, I think Richardson is going to be one of the surprise fallers, kinda like Ingram was last year. Besides, I’ve got a magic eight ball here, and that is what it told me…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Why is everyone talking about Lestar
like he has proven anything at all? He’s the new Dorin Dickerson for this fanbase.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
by DaGoaT on Feb 7, 2012 8:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because the talk out of training camp from the DBs were that he was the hardest man to cover
He also showed some flashes during the preseason. He’ll be back to compete for a roster spot, however until shown otherwise, I think he may be #4 WR going into next season, #3 at best
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
nope too much money for wayne
you just cut a guy who was making 3 million and offered an older one 2 million more. i also think they play different positions so that would not work.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:55 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I offered an
older, MUCH BETTER player 2 mil more. You pay more for better players.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
on what basis do you think that wayne could do everything walter does?
catching the ball and route running might be his forte but i saw him drop lots of balls last year and give up on others. that is not the type of guy i want in the locker room.
i have also never really see him run block.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
He is a better WR
than Walter, he would stretch the field because he is a legitimate threat. Sure Walter might be able to block better, but he isn’t even close to the same caliber of WR as Wayne when it comes to actually being a WR. If all you want is someone that can block who has soft hands, make Garrett Graham a WR, he’s slightly bigger than Walter, has a much smaller contract, can block every bit as well if not better, and has really soft hands. I don’t know why everyone over rates Walter so much but it’s a little ridiculous.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Have you watched Wayne recently?
He’s lost a step, he isn’t any faster than Walter. I don’t see him being any better at “stretching the field”.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Andre Johnson
has “lost a step” as well, but does that mean that you would take Mike Thomas over him? Of course not. Reggie Wayne at 34 is better than Walter has ever, or will ever be.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
better at what?
He isn’t faster, he doesn’t run a better route imo. Basically all I think he offers you is a bigger body to target and better ability to win jump balls over DBs. Its already been stated this is the 5th receiving option on this offense. Is Wayne going to be a better blocker?
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Really?
You don’t think Reggie Wayne would be drastically better than Kevin Walter? Fine. How much do you think Kevin Walter would fetch in FA? Would Walter ever be a team’s WR1? Why do you think that is? I mean you think he is a comparable route runner to Reggie Wayne, you think he is as fast or faster than Reggie Wayne so why is Reggie Wayne a WR1 and Walter is essentially behind Jacoby Jones on the depth chart?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
Much like
Foster, Brisiel, and Myers, I think Walter is more valuable in our system than most places on the market. Just because Reggie Wayne was good at catching passes from 5head for years, doesn’t mean he will translate into the role player we need on our team. I don’t have any delusions that Walter is a top20 WR, but he fits the role we need him for perfectly. At least until a drafted rookie gets up to speed.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He isn't worth the
money that he will be paid, and could be easily replaced with a cheaper option. I don’t believe that he is the only WR out there who can block and catch passes if he happens to be wide open.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Have you seen Wayne lately?
He’s hit the hill and lost a step.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Wayne minus one step
is still much better than Walter at his best.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
based on what?
madden?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Reggie Wayne damn near put up
1000 yards last year without a QB and has put up over 1000 yards 7 straight years. Walter is not that kind of WR, his best asset is his ability to block, that tells you all you need to know about him. Walter is a decent back up caliber WR, Reggie Wayne is the #1 WR on a lot of teams. There is no comparison.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
Wayne suffered from having bad QBs throwing to him… three different ones, at that. He still has it. He is also clutch in crunch-time. I would take him on my team any day.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
He was the only guy who could catch the ball
On a team that trailed nearly every game in the season. Clark got hurt alot, Garcon has butter fingers, and they didn’t have a good receiving back. Wayne was all they had. He won’t come here and catch 70 balls, that isn’t what we need. And if we are going to replace a veteran, do we want to do it with a guy even older?
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
If we had someone of his skill at
WR2 it would really stretch out the field, it would make our team much better when it came to passing the ball and Foster’s success hasn’t been because of Walter. A guy like Reggie Wayne makes the Texans a top 5 offense in the NFL.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
Jesus Christ
We do not need two #1 WRs in this offense! When will guys understand the offense we are running here? Wayne wouldn’t be getting tons of catches, because that is not how our offense is run. So why pay him for it? Draft a rookie to stretch the field while he learns to replace Walter in 2013. Screw expensive over the hill free agents with a chip on their shoulder.
And if you think Foster could get to the outside all the time without the aid of Walter I question your eye sight.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
If he was open,
he would get tons of catches. It would cause lots of mismatches for defenses and when they made adjustments to it, it would leave TE’s and Foster wide open. Having two legitimate WR’s isn’t a bad thing, as long as you have a QB who can pass the ball. Are you really trying to say that we wouldn’t be better if we had a second capable WR?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Look at what you wrote
If TE’s and Foster are open, your magical new WR2 isn’t going to get catches. So his production would look just like Walters. You act as if Walter doesn’t get the ball because he can’t get open ever. Have you considered that the plays aren’t designed with him as the first option? Have you considered that Walter’s role is to clear out defenders to make space for Foster and Daniels? Are you going to pay 6mil for Wayne to do that? You can only have so many mouths to feed. If you add some great new WR2 who you throw the ball to, guess what Daniels and Foster get less catches, then next offseason you will be saying they suck and we need to replace them with someone cheaper. Just because a guy isn’t catching the ball doesn’t mean is isn’t doing something vital for the designed play. 3mil is not alot, and I doubt you will find someone on the free agent market who is going to fill the role as well for cheaper.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
If you had a better
player, you would make plays for them. Walter isn’t good enough to ever consider him as a first option, if you had a guy who was, you could. If you had some plays where an extra player was a first option, it would spread the field out and they couldn’t put extra attention on those who actually get the ball.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I understand your point
You say that it doesn’t matter that Walter is a scrub because the ball can’t go to everyone, I know this, but why can’t we bring in a scrub who costs less to be the scrub WR on our team?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
All you've offered
is Reggie Wayne. Who is not cheaper.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
No, he is better
I said either improve the receiving corps or chose cheaper scrubs than the ones we have.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
DaGoat does a "Tebow"....
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
to DaGoaT
we do need two #1 receivers on this team. We do not necessarily need them both on the field at the same time, but we do need the depth. We need someone who can step in for Andre if he goes down again.
I do agree though that we should draft said Receiver rather than waste money on FA. We should draft someone who we can groom to replace AJ and maybe draft another to train to replace Walter.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Yes. The WR position has languished in recent drafts
and it really showed in the last season. It’s time to bring in some real talent here.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
better at what?
He isn’t any faster I would put money on that.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He is a much much much
better route runner, he gets open, he spreads the field. It’s not even close, I know we have a tendency to over rate our own players, but Walter is not a premier WR in the NFL, Reggie Wayne is.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
How many times
have you seen Wayne go over the middle? He works the sideline, Andre does that for us, we need a guy to go over the middle and block to the inside, are you going to pay Wayne 6mil to do that?
Why do ppl always think we need to try and field an all star team?
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Why do you think
that a guy who is behind Jacoby Jones on the depth chart is going to be better than someone who is WR1 on a lot of NFL teams?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Behind Jones?
What on earth are you babbling about?
By your logic, we should sign 3 or 4 #1WRs, because if one is good, 4 would surely be awesome right! No. The all star team approach doesn’t work. There is room for stars and then role players, not all stars. Our offense is not a pass first unit, it wasn’t even before Schaub went down. Even elite passing offenses like the Saints have one star WR and then role players.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
If we could sign
4 #1 WR’s for cheap I would be all for it. Are you really trying to say that the Texans wouldn’t be better if their receiving corps was Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, A.J. Green, and Reggie Wayne?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Possibly no
because at least two of those guys aren’t going to get production in the form of receptions and you as a fan would be screaming about how we overpaid for a guy to block. There is only one football, and only one guy can have it at a time. And when you have guys like that who can’t accept being a role player, you get a locker room cancer. Walter knows his role. He isn’t looking for 70 catches, he’s looking to help the team win.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Wow.
There is a difference between someone who blocks on a play so that someone else is open and someone who blocks because they aren’t good enough to ever be the actual target.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
And how are you telling the difference?
You’ve already proven you aren’t watching the games since you thought Jones was starting all year over Walter.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Look man, I'm tired of arguing with you
I’m fine with you thinking that Walter is some kind of amazing player that can’t be replaced. Whatever. It really doesn’t change anything feel free to believe that.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
We could probably get Chad Ochocinco right now for cheaper than Walter
Not that I’m suggesting we should sign him, I’m just saying
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:36 AM CST up reply actions
That is about all
Mr eightfive does any more – watch football
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I am Barry - I am from Texas
by Barryfromtexas on Feb 7, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
I said cheaper, not necessarily better
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
He'll be more than 3mil a year
You guys have to remember a FA is going to go where the best money is.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Not necessarily
Some veterans will go where playing opportunity is while others recognize that they may only have one good shot at a ring.
"Lord, beer me strength."
If you were not a Texans fan
would you know Kevin Walter’s name? It’s not like he is someone who is an amazing WR, he is average at best. I’m sure there are plenty of names, if you would like, I’ll spend a little bit of time and come up with one.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
I think you really undervaluing Walter's role
He is one of the very few recievers in the league who has the ability to block in the run game, pass protect (yes he does on occasion stay in and pass protect like a TE), and block DE’s in the running game. He’s got great hands, and seldom misses time for injuries. There’s not one free agent you could get out there that is better than him that would also be cheaper than him. Manningham is going to want big money know that he had a great game in the Super Bowl (like Santonio Holmes got). The only other rerciever that is a FA that is big and can block and is a better reviever is Colston. He’s gonna get 7+ mil. I would love for us to get him, but he’s way out of our price range. Who else could we get for 3.5 mil? All the younger WR’s are going to get more than that (Bowe, Garcon). The other guys are either too old (Plaxico, Wayne) or Knuckleheads (Braylon Edwards, Stevie Johnson). The Texans will kep Walter, restructure his contract, and draft his future replacement. 3.5 mil for a starter isn’t alot of money anyway. That’s less than 3% of you’re cap…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
Almost all of Walter's
value comes from his blocking ability, I think you could draft a kid out of college and completely replace everything that Walter does on this team. The 5th passing option isn’t one that a team needs to spend all that much money on. Hell you could teach practice squad guys how to block and they could do just about everything you ask Walter to do. If you cut Walter and Jones you save over 6 mil, you could use that money on a really good FA WR and use a scrub as WR3 and instantly improve this team. There is lots of ways that this team could be better without Walter or Jones.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:18 AM CST up reply actions
if this is the case, then why wasn't that answer found in the last draft?
hell wade got his d together in the preseason, and it only took them 6 games to feel comfortable. one wide receiver should have been able to get his shit together in a month. the answer is that it’s not that easy.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
They used almost the whole draft on defense
and there were more pressing needs on the team, this year WR is one of the best positions to upgrade, especially considering the cap concerns.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
yeah but udfa should have been able to do what walter does.
why even waste a first round pick on a wideout who you will pay MOAR to do the same job. the idea is to get cheaper so maehl, tolliver, or trindon should have been able to do it. hell you or i should be able to run block.
what i am saying is that if we were easy mason, or the other johnson would have flourished? which they didn’t. this can only mean that what kubs wants isn’t as easy to find as some would think or as cheap.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:39 AM CST up reply actions
There wasn't a full
training camp, Walter knew the playbook better, and that’s why I think he stayed on the team. As for drafting a WR, the idea would be to draft someone to eventually take Andre Johnson’s spot as #1
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
You act like good blocking WRs
are just easy as hell to find. They aren’t, and its not a sure thing it can be taught. If we were rebuilding you would have a case, but we need a guy who can get the job done right now. We are contenders.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Is a good blocking WR
more important than a legitimate threat at WR?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
in this scheme yes
if you cant run the ball then you cant run the playaction. if you cant run the playaction then you can’t do shit. you cant do shit you lose games.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
So since blocking is all that matters
we should just switch Garrett Graham to WR2 because he can block so well….
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
what are you basing
the opinion that Graham can block? I’m not necessarily saying he can’t, but this is the second time I’ve seen someone say put Graham out there to block, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest he is a excellent blocker.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He is about the same size as Walter
and his scouting report says that he is a willing and capable blocker but he lacks size (for a TE). He can certainly block CB’s and safeties. The point is if all you need a WR to do is block, then there are plenty of big guys who can do that. Walter is pretty much worthless other than that.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
thats bullshit
Walter is not “pretty much worthless” other than blocking. God damn where do you ppl get these opinions? And inline blocking on a defensive end or blitzing backer is not the same thing as beating a DB 1on1 out wide. Of course I have yet to see Graham prove he can do either of those in a Texan uniform.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
I consider someone who can't beat out
Jacoby Jones on a depth chart to be “pretty much worthless”, Walter isn’t going to be a legitimate option for the pass unless he is completely ignored and left wide open. He isn’t someone who can get open on his own. How many teams would Walter even be a starter on?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
what the hell are you talking about
What bullshit internet depth chart are you reading? Because the one with my two eyes watching the field has Walter starting all year.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Ah, that's right
Walter did start a couple more games than Jones, it was just that Jones was more effective, that’s what threw me off. Your point is made, Walter is clearly an amazing WR who we should overpay.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
no
jones only started when andre got hurt
do you watch the games?
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
Yes
I just remember Jones being more effective than Walter, which he was. I took that to mean that he was above him on the depth chart, I was wrong.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
So what you are saying
Is you have no idea what the hell is coming out of your head.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
No, what I am saying
is that I made a mistake based on the fact that Jacoby Jones was the more productive WR. But you can think that if you like, it really doesn’t matter.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
How was he more productive?
Please enlighten me. Because both the stats and the eyeballs say he wasn’t.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Ok
Jones: 512 yards 16.5 YPR
Walter: 474 yards 12.2 YPR
Who moved the ball more?
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
Its about more that stats bro
learn this
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
nice selective stats
Walter had 8 more catches and caught more TDs, got 3 more first downs,and was targeted 6 less times, while playing in 1 less game. Looks like their production is the pretty comparable to me.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
this is a good WR
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1220258/jacoby-jones
not to be rude, but you’re fucking nuts
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
Neither
Jones or Walter is any good, I have said that many times. I am not saying Jones is any good, just that Walter is not any good either. They are both mediocre at best WR’s, that’s why I would like the Texans to either improve them, or bring in cheaper mediocre at best WR’s so they can use that money elsewhere.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
But
he averaged a whole 32 yards per game this season with AJ out most of it. So obviously he’s a great WR with potential to be #1 on most teams. /sarcasm
Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.
Honey Badger for President
In our scheme with our current personnel
I say yes. If we didn’t have good catching TEs and a good receiving back, I think I could see your view better.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Wayne is an aging #1 receiver...
He is not a #2 receiver in this system. He does not do what a # 2 wide receiver does in this system. His only value would be if Andre went down again. This team has shown by past history, this is not how it bases it acquisitions. Wayne is not a fit, and he will not be talked to. So, as fun as it may be for you to speculate on it…Wayne is not ever going to be here. So stop being sooooooooo hard headed.
easily replacable by who?
name one FA WR who can step in from day one and do the job. We need to contend right now, we can afford to groom a rookie WR3, but right now, we need the WR2 on the field to know what he is doing, whether he is catching 5 passes a game or 2.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
No way Walter gets cut
He does too much, and there is not a replacement on the team as versitile as him. He may restructure , though. Jacoby’s chances may be 50/50.
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
He blocks, he gets
less than 500 yards a year, that’s not exactly vital to the offense.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:22 AM CST up reply actions
Wide reciever's involved in the running game is what turns 5 yard runs into 40 yard runs
IN the Zone blocking scheme that we run, It’s Kevin Walter who is constantly asked to block the backside DE. If he can’t, than Arian doesn’t get all those yards. Not a lot of WR’s have the ability to constantly block DE’s week in and week out. It’s alot harder tha njust effort. It’s size nd ability as well. Walter is one of the games best at that. Andre is the only other guy on the roster who can do it. Jeff Maehl got run over bad the time he tried to do it. I wish I had that clip. It was pretty bad…
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
For over 3 million dollars a year
I would expect more from him.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
I am in agreement with Sarge and NSN
Walter is not going anywhere. Does he arguably make too much for what he does? Sure, but he is a Kubes player and is vital to a lot of what we do.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Agree 100%
Walter is a slot receiver that isn’t afraid to go over the middle and get smashed. He’s a tough, smart player with good hands who can block. I think all teams need that kind of player on their teams and $3m a year is not a lot on money considering what a lot veterans make nowadays. I would rather cut Jacoby and his $3m a year and look to restructure Walter, which I can bet he’s willing to do. WR2 can be replaced in the draft.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
jacoby's chances should be 0/1000 that he gets cut.
fuck that guy
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Walter more likely than Jones?
I want some of what you are smoking. Kubs is not going to sign off on cutting his most dependable veteran over the never-going-to-develop-lost-cause of a fumbling Jones. I don’t see any way they can cut both either. They are looking to contend right now, which means they need some veteran dependability and leadership. Not just AJ and 3 or 4 unproven guys. I don’t see any way at all Walter gets released.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Yep, you said it exactly.
If Walter was not as valuable as has been suggested here, then he would never have been signed to begin with. Certainly would have been traded/released by now. The reason he is a part of this team and is a starter is because he does a lot of things well (block, catch inside, smart) that others can’t/won’t do.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
Excellent.
Though I believe he missed Brisiel on his list of UFAs. If I’m factoring in a combination of contract size, talent, and ability to replace, I’d go at it in this order:
1) Lock up Brisiel for a few more years on the cheap. Something along the lines of 3 years, $8-9 million would be ideal.
2) Try to hold on to Dreessen for a similar number.
3) Chris Myers time. Hard to say how much he’s going to get, but we’re handcuffed here. Methinks this negotiation is going to be tricky.
4) Make Foster a big, five-year offer. He has been the best player on this football team two years in a row. Probably won’t want him when he’s 30, but that’s the price you pay sometimes.
5) Put out a feeler to Duane Brown’s agent. Will we get some good will for offering an early extension? It’d be a considerable pay raise in 2012 and might save us some money in the long term. He’s going to be a priority in 2013, anyways.
6) Offer Mario a contract identical to the one LaMarr Woodley just received (6 years, $61 million, $22 million guaranteed). Non-negotiable.
would that solve all of our problems going into next year?
would we have space to sign cushing, barwin, brown and others who are free agents?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Well, it would already include Brown's extension.
And priority #6 probably wouldn’t happen in this scenario. The real question in 2013 is going to be Schaub. He’ll be on the wrong end of 30 and probably looking for a big four-year extension. I’m not too worried about coming to terms with younger guys like Cushing and Barwin, but an aging, somewhat injury-prone QB could be a real cap-killer at some point. Of course, he also happens to play the toughest position to replace on a team that might very well be a superbowl favorite for the next few years if they can get good QB play.
That’s going to be a very tough decision.
It will be interesting.
Schaub better stay healthy and play his ass off this season, or his shit’s in the wind.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
even then they might still let him go.
it all depends on the development of yates. if he can continue to make strides then they will turn to the cheaper option. if he struggles to develop then they might give schaub a 3 year deal with an option for a 4th.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 8:20 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure I buy the whole injury prone thing
But agree with the rest. I would like to see him get a 2-3 year deal instead of a 4 year one. That will give us time to develop TJ and see if there is really something there.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
#6
to get us through the 2013 free agency cap problem, that will need to have a low 2013 salary. 2012 will be palatable, since he gets the signing bonus, but we need to keep the 2013 number low, I would imagine. If it ramps up too high for those last few years we may end up with some dead money down the road.
But there’s a lot too many ifs for any of this right now.
Does he laugh at that offer?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I think Myers is more important than Brisiel
but I think we should resign both.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He is.
But it’ll also be a more complicated (and more expensive) negotiation, so I think you take care of Brisiel first.
No it isn't. Just slap the franchise tag on Myers & move to the next player on the list to resign
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
You apparently didn't read my response to your earlier suggestion.
You’d have to pay about $10 million if you franchised him.That’s too much for a center.
Well, it'll keep him off the market while the Texans negotiate a long term deal
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 8, 2012 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
Briesel won't go that cheap
His last contract – last chance to make NFL money
Houston will lose Briesel
I hope you're wrong.
Between injuries and scheme restriction, I don’t think he’s going to be highly sought-after. I suppose he’ll probably want a 4-5 year deal, though. I’d be hesitant to give him one.
But Briesel just earned the "All-Joe" Award!
from the mothership:
Brisiel was named the captain of USA Today’s 20th annual All-Joe Team, a squad that "celebrates first-rate players who receive second-rate recognition." One of the most unheralded performers on one of the league’s best offensive lines, Brisiel played the entire second half of the Texans’ division-clinching victory at Cincinnati in Week 14 with a broken fibula in his right leg.
Duane Brown next year.
The big problem.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
May not be a problem really
We’re about to learn how Denver this franchise is. Denver didn’t hand out huge deals to OL and RB….they believed everything was a product of the system. Once you had the right coaches and scouting in place….you didn’t need premium players.
We’re about to see if Houston will be the same way.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Yeah, but not being Denver means making cap room for your main guys.
If DB has another great year, he will take up a LOT of room.
Franchise LT? UFA?
Holy shit.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
The Cowboys operated this way under Tom Landry
It was all a system, and no player was bigger than the system.
He alienated a lot of players this way, but it worked for him and for them.
I think there’s a middle ground that should be found. Some players are worth the money, some can be replaced. It’s a matter of deciding correctly which is which.
Kubiak believes in you
LT is an exception to the rule.
Spending a first-round pick on Duane Brown to start with is pretty clear evidence of that (as was the Shannies spending a high first on Trent Williams). He go-a get paid.
He better be
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
$8.6M of dead money this year
I assume goes down to <$1M in 2013. Add that to a few million we can stay under the cap this year, and we could have enough to take care of all of them.
And Schaub is the bigger factor. DB didn’t do that in a contract year, and this FO picked him in the first round. He ain’t going anywhere. I suspect Schaub will be here, too, but I think he’ll be put on the back burner to see how healthy he is for this whole season.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
it also depends on who you release this year.
if you cut jacoby and walter like many people want, then they may still be owed money in the future. most teams usually have dead money but they try to limit that amount to under 10 million per year. btw that 10 million is a number i just threw out, but usually teams hate having more than that tied up because it limits what they can do.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
see my first two comments above
Jacoby’s dead money is $300k this year if he’s cut before June 1st and $0 after this year, or $150k each for 2012 and 2013 if (they want to split it, and) he’s cut after June 1st.
Walter is more of an unknown. My link said we took his bonus hit the first year instead of pro-rating the bonus over the length of the contract. If true, he would be $0 dead money no matter when he was released.
I think Rick Smith learned a little bit from the Amobi Okoye contract.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
but I think Walter's dead money is irrelevant
I’d put a week’s salary on him starting WR2 in 2012.
I think he’ll split time with a rookie or two, but I don’t think we go into this season with a starting rookie WR.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I looked at that dead money for 2012
and all of the contracts expired in 2011. Why would the dead money carry into the 2012 season?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
answering my own questions
does that make me insane?
Okoye – His contract did extend to 2012, and he was released after June 1st. So if you accelerate the remainder, his hit for 2011 could be ~$4M, and splitting that between ’11 and ’12 gives us ~$2M dead from him for 2012.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Ha if the Texans cut a WR it's obvious Walter is the one who'll get the axe.
They might cut/resign him to a smaller contract but they won’t keep him and cut a guy with less than half his contract who does the same exact job plus a little more.
Seriously $300K compared to $3.5M is a no brainer and a move I’ve said I pretty much expect to be made by the FO. He hasn’t lived up to that 20M+ contract anyways unfortunately which was due more to what he did in 2007 and 2008.
They could also cut Walter and use that cap space to sign a FA WR if he still wants a big contract the and draft a new WR.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Wait
You’re saying jacoby does everything Walter does, and even a little MORE? Sure he returns punts terribly if that’s what you mean.
You must be kidding me. I’m starting to lose hope
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 6, 2012 9:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah last year 1000 total yards for Jacboy under 500 total for Walter.
Both play the same spot (according to Kubiak).
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
It's about more than total yards
He returned punts, of course he will have more yards. Walter made clutch catches every game. Jacoby made one or two all year. While jacoby has improved, Walter is still the better WR and blocker. And Kubiak obviously loves him like a son Lol. He isn’t going anywhere, even though I’m not sure if I actually disagree with you now or not…
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 6, 2012 10:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
Walter is far more reliable and makes tough catches over the middle. And attempts has more to do with the QB & the plays than the receiver. If you put Jones in the WR1 while AJ is hurt, obviously he’s going to get more passes thrown to him just due to the playbook. If you had put Walter at WR1, then he would have had more catches and the whole “more yards” argument would not be applicable. The reason Jones was WR1 behind AJ, is because of his speed, that’s all.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
haha wtf
I question whether some of you even watch the same games. If I have a choice between throwing to Walter or Jones when I need a first down, 11 out of 10 times I’m throwing to Walter.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Thank you sir
walter isnt great, but he is when compared to jacoby
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
Walter will catch the ball
when it is thrown to him, but he is almost never open because he is not a good route runner. So you have Jacoby who can get open occasionally, but not catch the ball or Walter, who is never open unless they just ignore him completely who will almost always catch the ball if it gets to him. Those are definitely two WR’s worth over 6 million dollars for the pair.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
when in the blue hell has jacoby been open?
with his speed schaub would hit him every time. the thing is he doesn’t get separation. he can’t even catch punt or kick returns without looking like he will fumble.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Jacoby gets open
a lot more often than Walter, he just can’t catch the ball.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
so you want someone who can get open but cant catch for shit
over someone who doesn’t get as much separation but catches a lot more than jacoby? logic for the win
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I don't want either of them
My point was that neither of them are worth 3 mil. Walter can’t get open, Jacoby can’t catch. Both could and should be replaced.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
So you would like to open the season
with Andre as the only member of your receiving core with any experience in the system? Does that sound like what a contender does?
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
We don't ask much from
Walter, it’s not like we would be teaching someone brain surgery. Yes, I would like to upgrade my receiving corps, that is exactly what a contender does.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
and they will
through the draft for youth. You don’t cut all your veterans at once.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
You do when you can
upgrade their position, and we can do that.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Kubiak doesnt work that way
never has. never will. thats just how it is
this is not fantasy football
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
It's a new day
The Texans don’t go out and pick up big name FA’s either, but Jonathan Joseph is still here….
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
ok now I am for sure calling bullshit
Walter is not a good route runner? Are my eyes deceiving me as I read this? That is one of his shining qualities and what 99% of the BRBers say positively about him!
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Then they are wrong.
He can block, and he can catch, but he is not good at getting open.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
If he was good at getting open
he would have beat out Jacoby Jones for the job, he couldn’t, stop acting like the guy is a pro bowler.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
this is the third time you've said this
and its still wrong.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
by DaGoaT on Feb 7, 2012 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You are right
Walter started more games than Jones, he just wasn’t as effective a WR and did more in less time, that’s what threw me off.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
sorry bobby, but you are flat out wrong
being a good route runner and getting seperation, while helping out each other, are not mutually exclusive.
The facts are this. Walter has more football smarts in his pinky than jacoby’s whole family
yes JJ is faster and more athetic, shit he is 7 years younger. walter actually had similar combine numbers to jacoby, but you wouldnt know that
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
Of course I would
but saying that he had similar combine numbers to Jacoby Jones doesn’t mean that he is worth over 3 mil a year, Jacoby Jones certainly isn’t worth 3 a year. BOTH OF THEM ARE SCRUBS. I’m not saying that either of them are any good. In fact, I am saying both of them need to be upgraded. Walter’s production peaked 4 years ago and hasn’t been anything close since, the guy simply isn’t worth the money.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
OK
but you cant go into the season with andre and rookies.
if andre goes down week one, and JJ and KW are gone, youre fucked. period
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I don't think that
JJ and KW are so good that rookies can’t come in and play up to their level. I just don’t think they are that good.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
please...
all rookie receiving cores do not work.
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
by Carter Liles on Feb 7, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Walter would never have been signed as a FA if he was a scrub
Jones, on the other hand, has been kept here because he showed some flashes in the punt returns and they desperately needed a PR. He is definitely a scrub and should be gone. Walter is good, and $3m a year is not as much as you make it out to be.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
You need to understand football
Depth is not determined solely on ability, it has to do with the type of receiver you are for the given position and the scheme you are running. The AJ position (or the X) in Kubiak’s playbook is a deep threat, up the filed receiver that has to have size, speed, and jumping ability. That’s AJ. Once he got hurt, only Jacoby has the speed to fit that position. You couldn’t put Walter there even if he is better than Jones, simply becasue they are different players. Walter is more designed for the WR2 spot (Z), which on most plays requires him to come over the middle, run very precise routes, catch the tough throws (slants, back shoulder throws, etc.), and BLOCK. That is why Jacoby was not WR2 when Andre was in. He is only a WR1 and not a good one. This draft is important is that we should find a WR1 to eventually become AJ’s replacement, because Jones is obviously not it.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
This draft is important is that we should find a WR1 to eventually become AJ’s replacement, because Jones is obviously not it.
Thank you!
The search needs to begin NOW, not when it’s painfully obvious Andre is in decline. It might take a while to find the big, scary guy we need at WR1.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
And find him in the bottom 10 picks of the first round?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
Arian Foster
UDFA… Just sayin, you find the guy he will produce.
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
Victor Cruz, UDFA
You just never know
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 8, 2012 12:49 AM CST up reply actions
Victor Cruz is working out of the slot
in an offense that throws to the slot alot, ie. Steve Smith in the 2010 season. Cruz isn’t a #1, and will never be one.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
This is true
But, he is one helluva slot receiver!
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Gotta start looking somewhere.
He won’t be easy to find and it may not happen this year.
But really, would you be happy with just an OK guy at the position? I guarantee you our starting QB (whoever that is) will not be. We need a stud out there, and we need to set about finding him.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
This brings up another point.
I guarantee you our starting QB (whoever that is)
It’s not too early to start looking for a QB, either. I’m not willing to put all my eggs in the Yates basket.
Trooth.
We actually have a bit of a QB “situation”.
I drank as much Yateraide as anyone, but I’m sober now and not convinced he’s the future. Re-watching him in action, I notice accuracy issues.
Teh Schaub, OTOH, was less than awesome in his starts and, for the third season out of five, those starts were reduced by injury.
Do we start a new QB search now? Not as a priority, no. But I definitely approve of another Yates-caliber prospect being drafted as high as 4th or 5th this year.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I wouldn't worry about Yates' accuracy
these were timing issues brought about by several factors (not being used to the receivers, revolving injurys, revolving game plans, adjusting to NFL speed, etc.) His confidence is a better indicator of how he will do.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Hope you're right. I'm definitely not writing him off as the after-Schaub.
Still, I don’t see a clear way forward at QB. I foresee problems.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Never ever hurts to draft another QB
especially if we dump Leinart…which I hope we do.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Kellen Moore would be a decent late round project QB
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 8, 2012 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
I think the Texans will go another angle
I think if there is enough money, they will look for a veteran backup QB. Yates needs time to develop, and if Schaub goes down again, they don’t want to see another wasted season.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
I disagree
Second year in the system, I think he’s perfect for a #2 after the experience he had this year.
He would be better at backing up Schaub than any vet other than Leinart, imo.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
6th year in the system actually
He ran it for 4 years at UNC, although with some tweaks
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 8, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
Its a couple years too early
and this year’s QB class sucks outside of Luck and Griffin.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
This I was going to say
we really need a better QB class to draft from.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
There are no
Andre, Calvin Johnson types in this draft. By all means I hope we draft a WR or two, but I have little hopes that he can be a replacement for Andre. Hopefully for Walter in a year or two.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Very true
It is a very good class of WRs. Heck, aren’t there 4 or 5 projected to go in the 1st round? Another 3 or 4 in the 2nd? Good class. But, DaGoat is right. There is no AJ or Megatron in it.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Yeah, this a a great class for WR depth, but no real gamechangers at the position
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 8, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Matt Leinart
Jacoby and Leinart being cut gives us $31.3M to spend.
I’m starting to see Mario Williams in a Texan uniform in 2012.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
so would that break down into 10 million for foster, myers, and williams?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 10:34 PM CST up reply actions
If we have that much space
There’s room for those three, imo. I’d probably give Foster a dollar more than the other two, just for the one-handed reception against Baltimore.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Mario would get the most
Fosters # could be a lot more than we are thinking
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 6, 2012 10:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
so how do you think they will break down?
williams 13 million?
arian 12 million?
myers 7 million?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 10:48 PM CST up reply actions
I suspect the cap hits will be in the neighborhood of
Williams 7.5 – 9 mil
Foster 5 – 6.5 mil
Myers 5 – 6 mil
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
the three totalled $19.2M against the cap in 2011.
The top end of your calcs is $21.5M, which leaves $2.3M. That would be (minus) one Jacoby Jones (plus) one rookie.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Ya, thats about what I was figuring on
and I suspect they will lower (restructure) some other contracts too. The nice thing is, that if they do it that way, they won’t have an incrementally higher cap for those guys in the next few years.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
and
there’s apparently a new tv deal that will kick in in a few years that should raise the cap. Hopefully this occurs right when we need it to: after the 2012 season.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Ya. In any case we have to pay those guys, so I think its reasonable for now.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Foster
I think we should overpay, if necessary, but I’m scared about how much we’ll have to over pay.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
okay. if we are going to model ourselves after the broncos, shouldn't we let foster walk?
i thought the system was supposed to crank out 1,000 yard backs like nothing. am i wrong?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
we may do that
But Foster adds several yards to many plays, and is a huge receiving threat.
I think we can afford him, and I think he’s got a good head on his shoulders.
If things don’t go crazy, I think he’s worth paying a premium.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I'm guessing Mario and brisiel stay
And we keep either foster or Myers. I’d pick foster.
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 6, 2012 11:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
i am all for resigning our linemen but we should not break the bank on them
foster should be signed but i think that his contract should expire around the same time tate’s does. we can resign tate and let foster walk without having to eat any money or take a big hit on our cap.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
contract expiration
I’d make Foster’s contract overlap Tate’s by at least one year. It gives leverage for both deals.
If they both are FAs the same year, they both have leverage, and we just raised the price of the one we eventually sign.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I don't think you should ever overpay on a RB
Its a position in today’s NFL that is one of the easiest to replace production on.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
The conventional wisdom is not infallible.
Things change when you’re talking about an exceptional player with multiple skills who is also a good locker room guy. I’d say Foster fits that description.
If he’d already played five years I’d say let some other team pay him, but he’s just coming into his own. If he can produce like he has the last two seasons for four more then add a couple more decent years, he’s a Hall of Famer. It’s a long shot, but worth the bet, IMO.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Foster is special
and I’d make an exception, but not overpay too much
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Yep
He should not demand CJ money. His cap hits shouldn’t be more than $6-9 mill a year average (whatever length the contract is). That should be doable.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
actually, no more that 5 - 7 per year cap hit.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Myers ain't getting $10M a year. Not a chance.
Not when Mangold and Kalil don’t make it.
"Lord, beer me strength."
how much would each of them be worth?
if we do have 30 million then signing each of them should be no problem. unless mario wants 20 plus, arian 10, and myers around 8.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
If we have that $30M to play around with then I feel good about all of them staying with some cash left over...
I was just saying Myers number should be $5-7M…based on his age, scheme limitations, and top center money. $10M would be a terrible deal for any team, just awful.
"Lord, beer me strength."
what?
oh mr. smith, we have the redskins on line 1 ……..
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
if he wants 8mil or more
he might have to walk. Doubt many teams will pay him that much anyways. we should get him cheap.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
Watch out for Atlanta
They run ZBS, they need a center, and they’ve said they will spend whatever it takes.
http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/2/1/2765360/rumor-texans-could-lose-myers
Kubiak believes in you
if it turns out anything close to what they got with dunta then i am all for it.
they dont run the zbs as well as we do, so let them overspend. would make it easier to get mario and foster paid.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Atlanta's one of those teams
that spends a lot of assets on good, but not great, players.
They spent the 3rd overall pick on Matt Ryan, who’s good, but not great.
They spent money on Michael Turner, who is good, sometimes great, but has battled too many injuries.
They spent mucho money on Dunta Robinson, who makes the highlight reels with bit hits more than he does with big plays.
They spent an entire draft on Julio Jones and got half a season of production out of him when they could have had Torrey Smith later on.
The result is a team that is, well, good, but not great. If Thomas Dimitrof isn’t careful, he’s going to turn into Jerry Jones: long on flash and style, short on substance.
Kubiak believes in you
let it stay that way
we need teams who want to emulate the redskins and chokeboys. they allow the rest of the team who are smart to get rid of their players, while having better and younger ones waiting in the wings.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:44 AM CST up reply actions
No disagreement here
Growing up a Cowboys fan, it’s been painful watching the way Jerry Jones does business. His heart’s in the right place, but his dick won’t get out of the way. And they aren’t winning jack shit ever again until that changes.
Kubiak believes in you
and i hope it doesn't change for another 30-40 years
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:54 AM CST up reply actions
Unfortunately for Cowboy haters
Son Stephen will have probably assumed the reins by then.
Not that we know that he’ll do business any different from Daddy.
Kubiak believes in you
i hope he doesn't.
and my hatred stems from the arrogance and filth that spews from many of their fans. we can buy all the talent in the world, still have money left over and we will win all of the trophies in the world. it’s a stupid way to think and i am glad that very few fan bases think this way.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 1:30 AM CST up reply actions
It's definitely the most arrogant organization in sports
Five super bowls tend to fester such a sense of entitlement.
But any reasonable Cowboy fan (i.e. me) will call it like it is and tell you Jerrah is an egomaniacal waste of human flesh. Believe it or not, such people do exist.
Now, the majority is definitely the arrogant filth you speak of; I’ll gladly admit that. IMO, it’s a fan base taking after the identity of its owner. It was a much classier environment during the Landry era.
Kubiak believes in you
and that's the biggest reason why i could never follow them even with jerrah gone
who in their right mind fires an iconic coach? someone who transcends the organization and even gave it an identity. it’s why even though i was too young to see it, i can see why houston loves bum phillips.
those guys were people that anyone could relate to and really made the team feel like it was a part of them. jerrah stands for everything that is the opposite of that.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 2:58 AM CST up reply actions
One thing that needs to be cleared up about Jerrah
as much as we all hate him, he gets an undeserved amount of criticism for the Landry firing.
Jerrah’s predecessor, Bum Bright, was a prick of his own kind. He wanted Landry fired (for mostly personal reasons) but didn’t have the balls to do it himself, so he made sure he sold the team to someone who will. It was the only way Jerrah would get the team.
Jerrah no doubt should have handled it WAY better than he did, but Bright has been allowed to skate, which has always bothered me.
And let’s be honest: it was time for Landry to go.
Kubiak believes in you
Watch the Texans slap the franchise tag on Myers
I’m calling it now
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:50 AM CST up reply actions
I've been thinking about that possibility myself
though it would throw the proverbial monkey-wrench into everybody’s dream tag-and-trade-Mario plan for world domination.
Depends on whether the FO sees Myers as worth it. If it’s true they see him as just a system player, then they might not.
Kubiak believes in you
The tag and trade
idea was never going to happen, Mario will either sign a long term deal here, or he will be gone.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
I say it will be
the latter. Too many 4-3 teams with cap room will outbid the shit out of us.
I just hope it’s not Jacksonville.
Kubiak believes in you
It just depends
if money is the most important thing to him. If he wants to go to that shithole in Jacksonville for an extra mil a year, he is crazy.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
Carolina
makes the most sense to me.
4-3 team with cap room, and in a similar situation as us last year: good offense (that’s only gonna get better) needing a defense to match. Plus, it’s his hometown team.
Detroit could be in the running as well.
Kubiak believes in you
no way he goes to detroit.
he would have to face the packers, bears and vikings. i can see carolina from a hometown point of view but he can retire there if he really misses home. plus he has to play the saints, bucs, and falcons. not as bas as the nfc north but a pain the ass nonetheless.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
Carolina's a lot closer than people think
New Orleans is clearly the class of the South and an upper echelon NFC team, but Atlanta’s not that special, and the Bucs are garbage.
And don’t forget: they beat us pretty convincingly on our home field last year (granted, we were hung over from the clincher in Cincy, but still).
Make the right moves on defense, hope Cam Newton continues to grow, and the Panthers could be your 2012 sleeper. Mario would be a tremendous get for them.
Kubiak believes in you
I think it will be Tampa
They’ve got a ton of cap space and some good young DL. They could use a vet like Mario to take some of the pressure of Gerald Mccoy, Brian Price, Adrian Clayborn, and Daquan Bowers. That would be a pretty tough DL.
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
From what I remember from the new CBA, they will be forced to spen a certain percentage of the cap
They are going to have to eventually spend that money within three years. They are well below what the salary floor is and are going to have to open up the checkbook this year and next year.
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
You assume the money is more important than where the team is going
I think he stays.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 7, 2012 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Won't happen.
Doesn’t make sense financially due to the nature of franchise rules on offensive linemen. Top center salaries (typically lower than most offensive linemen) aren’t kept separate.
I thought franchise rules
take the individual player’s salary into account more than the position. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Kubiak believes in you
If it's higher than the collection of top-paid players, then yes.
That’s the case with Mario. That’s pretty rare, though. Myers’ 2011 salary isn’t huge, so he’d get some average of top-paid O-linemen over the past several years. That includes guards and tackles, unfortunately, so you’d wind up paying him $3-4 million more than he’s likely to get per year with a long-term contract.
you guys are missing the obvious
rams. fisher will spend money, and another DE next to long makes them top 10 with a good draft
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
Cut Jacoby
Leinart and Walter and that gives us 34.8M to spend, maybe even go after a better WR2 if there is enough left over.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Something I noticed
Rookie contracts all now have a mandatory length of 4 years, plus a 5th year club option for rookies taken in the first round of the NFL draft, which can be exercised after the player’s 3rd season. For picks 1 to 10, the salary in that 5th year is the average of the top ten players at that player’s position. For picks 11 through 32, it’s the average of players 3-25.
Looks like the Texans lucked out getting Watt at 11.
yep...
got in just under the new rule… i’d say extremely lucky.
Life is a beach, or a bitch, depending on your attitude...
so what you are saying
there is a chance to keep everyone and still have a little money to play with?
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
And my understanding
of it is that all of this is before contracts are renegotiated like Demeco’s.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 6, 2012 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
oh boy,
our future looks brighter than before.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
if the number are accurate and the players realistic in their worth to the team.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions
Tthey have done a good job of not overpaying for players and letting them walk.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
yup
but that’s because most of them sucked
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 6, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Giants may have to let Manningham walk
If so, we gotta see what it would take to get him.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
I'd hesitate a little on Manningham
He had a great superbowl, but he’s still the guy that went from number two to number three on the depth chart (thanks to Victor Cruz). Chances are he’s gonna want more than I’d be willing to pay.
Kubiak believes in you
Injuries gave Cruz his opportunity
Manningham is productive when healthy, its not like he played poorly when given the chance. They just have too many mouths to feed now.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Ted Ginn Jr
made one million dollars last year and he was just about as productive at WR as Kevin Walter and was more productive returning kicks than Jacoby Jones. The more I think about it, I really want the Texans to go after him.
He doesn't fit the offense
Can’t block and can’t really run routes. Not worth it.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I think he would be used
as a #3 WR and they would bring someone in as a #2 who could block, pretty much any random big body with soft hands would do.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:43 AM CST up reply actions
I've mentioned Ginn & Eddie Royal as possible replacements for Jacoby
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
I like Royal better
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
Probably would cost more than Ginn, but would be more productive than Ginn
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:55 AM CST up reply actions
he is worth it
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
I’m just glad that I’m not the one having to work all of this out….
by sebastian_8_8 on Feb 7, 2012 12:43 AM CST via mobile reply actions
if anything i would like to
you would have more access to anything you have now, and would have a better idea of what the coaches wanted. it wouldn’t be easy but i would definitely enjoy the challenge.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 12:45 AM CST up reply actions
is Trindon still on the team?
I forgot
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
I'm pretty sure
he is still on the practice squad
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 12:56 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, he's still on the team for now
Maybe they should just move him to RB & use him in a Darren Sproles/Danny Woodhead role
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 12:57 AM CST up reply actions
I don't get why they haven't tried that yet
Maybe afraid of him getting destroyed?
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
Probably the only thing I can think of
But it can’t be any worse than what could happen on a return
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 7, 2012 1:13 AM CST up reply actions
he must also have a hard time learning the offense and staying healthy.
this year will be big for him no pun intended.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 1:32 AM CST up reply actions
This is why they need to have an offseason league like they used to have with NFL Europe
It doesn’t have to be in Europe, but Trindon has gotten almost no live work returning punts since college. There are still guys in the NFL that cut their teeth in NFL Europe, Mike Briesel and James Harrison being some of them. These “potential” guys are never going to pan out if they don’t get to get on the field. And now that the NFL has cut back on the number of practices and OTA’s, a lot of these late bloomers and guys that are switching positions are never going to get their chance. That is one that Godell definitely dropped the ball on, getting rid of a developmental league.
"...you may all got hell, and I will go to Texas!"
-Davey Crockett
In the long-term
I have criticized Sean Pendergast for his Rome-like radio meanderings, and I stand by those criticisms. However, he is a very bright guy and in this article, he shows himself to be that bright guy with a very good analysis of the Texans free agent status, while taking a long-term view, as he takes a look at 2013 and 2014.
This is a must read for all who are posting here and are interested in what NFL teams and in particular, the Texans, are up against.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
just read it
and regarding the closest alligator to the boat, Arian or Mario: if Mario isn’t pricing himself out of the reasonable number, he should cost this team less than last year’s cap number, which can go towards Arian. So there’s an outside chance we keep both, but as posed, I’m leaning more towards Mario.
DL of his ability is not easily replaceable, and we get no compensation. If deciding between the two, I’d go a little over on Mario, and get the 1st round compensation for Arian. I think that’s better than the other way around, but no compensation (or at best a third rounder).
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
"I’d go a little over on Mario, and get the 1st round compensation for Arian."
NO-O-O-O-O!
Have you forgotten Ahman Green? Ron Dayne? Samkon Gado? Wali Lundy? Need I go on?
I know the conventional wisdom says RBs are fungible, but Arian is an exceptional player who gives us total production we’ve never had from the position. Tate’s a pretty good player, but he’s simply not in Arian’s class.
I’d let the fragile Mario go to keep Arian if I had to and not think twice about it.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Also, the linked "This guy" analysis of unrestricted free agents is not an accurate list
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Just to clarify,
He lists the following as unrestricted free agents in 2012 for the Houston Texans:
Arian Foster RB, Chris Myers C, Mario Williams LB, Neil Rackers K, Jason Allen CB, Dominique Barber S, Quintin Demps S, Joel Dreessen TE, Xavier Adibi LB, Brad Maynard P, Derrick Ward RB, and Jon Weeks C.
If I’m not mistaken, we can add Jake Delhomme, Jeff Garcia, Bryant Johnson, Mike Brisiel, Kasey Studdard, Tim Bulman, Tim Dobbins, and Matt Turk to the list. Sure, out of those, several will be let go unsigned, but I would expect that the Texans might have interest in Brisiel, Bulman and Dobbins, depending on their circumstances with the draft and other free agents on the market. Feel free to correct me if I am off on the above. Oh, Adibi….isn’t he with the Vikings?
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
One other clarification
That linked post says that Arian Foster is an unrestricted free agent. He is not a free agent at all. He is under contract through the 2012 season. Yes, it is in the Texans best interest to sign him to an extension this off-season, but even if they don’t, he will still be a restricted free agent after the 2012 season.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Another clarification
Jon Weeks is not an unrestricted free agent. He is an exclusive rights free agent, which means his contract has expired but because he has less than two years NFL experience, if the Texans offer the three year veteran minimum salary, then he has to take it or leave the NFL. He has no rights to negotiate with another team.
I don’t make up the rules, I’m just interpreting them.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
That linked post says that Arian Foster is an unrestricted free agent. He is not a free agent at all. He is under contract through the 2012 season.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Thank you
not unrestricted.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
but still a free agent
Which is important because someone could be crazy and accept our tender.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Yes, this is true and quite likely if it goes there.
I think my point was that the linked “blog post” which was the basis for this FanPost was riddled with inaccuracies. Texans payroll is a great subject for discussion here, but referring to that “blog post” and saying that it laid out the cap situation is way off.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
possibly
But he took Foster off the books in his cap assessment, which he was correct about.
Do you have better numbers?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Better numbers? Do you mean the correct information?
Why don’t you do that since you are the one who linked to the incorrect information?
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I'm thinking about doing that
I apologize for providing you a link to inaccurate info.
Although, it appears like the info isn’t that easy to get correct, seein as how you somehow think Foster is not a free agent at all.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Yeh, my mistake on that, however if you go to the link I am providing below, you should have all the info available to the general public
Rotoworld shall provide the answers.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
^As a matter of fact, using that info^
You could probably be dangerous and write-up you own very informative ditty.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Also
Here’s a discussion about Arian vs Mario on value.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I thought about it last night
and I may get after it.
Thanks for the link.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Please do, TP
You are a good writer with good insights. I would appreciate you digging into it. You have time, too. I don’t think this free agent market is taking off too soon.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Also, Pendergast's take on the long-term view which I linked above is a good read
He really did a good job.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
after using your link
combined with Spotrac (I took worst case 2012 cap number of the two), I now see <$10M left before signing/cutting anyone.
This depressed me, so I stopped looking. Denial works, right?
Another number I’ve seen is $20M, so we if we meet in the middle, $15M doesn’t get all three done.
I’d be comfortable with our starting number closer to $20M, then go cheaper at QB2, WR1.5, etc and we can re-sign all three of our biggies. I really want Mario. Foster should be reasonable or a 1st round compensation. I’m coming around to Ben Tate as the RB1 with an extra 1st round pick. I think we can do some damage with 2 1sts.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
This makes it seem like we are in pretty good shape to resign all our players IMO
We are at 25.6 without the cap going up or cutting anyone? You figure that Leinart and 1 of our WR are gone for sure (hopefully JJ) and that would give us close to 30 mil to play with. Sounds pretty good to me.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
I left out restructuring deals as well
Meco is a prime candidate for this and Walter could fall into this category as well. If we can get to above 30 mil in cap space, I see no reason why we could not resign everyone we wanted to.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
capn just restructured last year
how in the hell are you gonna convince him to do it twice?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
Easy,
you cut him if he won’t restructure. His role on the team has been drastically reduced and his play is starting to fall off, he isn’t worth what he gets paid, and he couldn’t get it anywhere else.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
thats ridiculous
The McNair thing to do is ask him as a man to redo his deal so his friend Mario can remain on the team.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Right
and he does it because he knows that he can’t get paid like that anywhere else, he doesn’t have a lot of value outside of Houston because of the memories of when he was more physically able.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
or because
This front office treats their players well and in turn they want to do whatever they can to win a championship here. There’s a reason every player other than Cunta that hits FA publicly says they want to resign here.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
meco has to take a pay cut
he isnt what he use to be and wont be again. have to give cush money soon
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I don't think that is true at all
He also played with a gigantic sleeve on his arm all year. I would give him another healthy year to see how he looks.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He hasn't been the same
since that Achilles injury, he has to take a pay cut, it’s not like he could get paid more anywhere else.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
have to agree with bobby
its not the arm, its the achilles. The guy plays on 1st and sometimes 2nd down. not on third. and dobbins replace him a ton in goalline situations.
not worth the contract. this isnt happy land where everyone gets paid and stays with the same team forever
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
i thought those things took at least a full year to receover from after surgery
with the lockout and short pre-season he didn’t have much of a choice but to play like a mummy. I still think that people here undervalue what he brings to the table. I say the Texans give him another year and then if he has proven that he can’t bounce back, then you ask him to restructure his contract. again
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
Sometimes people never
recover from that injury, I say restructure him and if he does bounce back, keep him past this year. Otherwise he will be what we are looking for next year.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
You guys are brutal
LOL…sure as hell glad I don’t work for any of you callous …men.
Lets just use em up and throw em out like a dirty towel or an old tire.
Cap’n Meco will probably be with us until he retires. I just don’t see Big Daddy McNair tossing him out after what Meco put on the field, and he’ll make the money right.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
The season was ending right at the time Meco should have been recovering.
Sure enough, he started looking better at the end of the season. Hopefully he really is coming back (in terms of play). Remember at the meetings closing out the year, he took Andre and Meco aside and talked to them about the team? I can’t see Meco leaving just yet.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
Thats my observation as well....
he started to look much better and more consistent there toward the end. Seemed to be picking it up a little each game.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
I posted this in another thread a while back, but thought it was quite appropriate for this discussion:
The front seven of the Texans in financial review:
JJ Watt $11.23M over 4 years – UFA 2015
Antonio Smith $35.5M over 5 years – UFA 2014
Shaun Cody $5.75M over 2 years – UFA 2013
Brooks Reed $4.7M over 4 years – UFA 2015
Conner Barwin $4M over 4 years – UFA 2013
Brian Cushing $14M over 5 years – UFA 2014
DeMeco Ryans $48M over 6 years – UFA 2016
Mario Williams $54M over 6 years – UFA NOW!
Anyone else notice
that Arian has started to sound a little more arrogant? I follow him on twitter and FB, he’s no where NEAR a TO, Moss, etc…but he’s definitely feeling the hype. Could this result in him putting the Texans in a bind demanding more money than he would have otherwise?
Also, I don’t see JJ or Walter getting cut without replacements already on the roster. What if they did that and suddenly we’re worse at those positions? Remember, Trindon Holiday couldn’t hold on to the ball and others weren’t able to hold solid spots on the team in the past. Could Lestar Jean replace JJ or Walter? His health/improvement could affect one of the two.
Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.
Honey Badger for President
Saying Arian's name and TO in the same sentence doesn't make any sense to me
Arian hasn’t ever thrown a teammate under the bus. Whatever other reason could you have by comparing the two? No where near? Why even mention TO?
You’re other point. You are correct that they should have replacements for Walter and JJ if they cut them.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I was trying to
downplay the “arrogant” remark. He doesn’t seem to have a “I’m the greatest to ever pay the game” mentality like a TO, that was my point. But he does seem to be getting a bigger head than his once humble self had. I totally understand why, but things like this can cause problems when contract negotiations start.
Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.
Honey Badger for President
I don't know any NFL player that has had the same mentality of TO
So, I guess your characterization is a correct one. But, if he does become TO, then yes, that could be a problem. I also hope he doesn’t become a Dunta or a Haynesworth. I don’t know why I mentioned their names in comparison to Arian Foster, but let’s just hope that is the last time we see their names associated with Foster’s.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I think what you are seeing is an assertiveness that comes in a contract year.
Arian has to let the FO know that he knows what he is worth. Same as if you are interviewing for a job, You don’t tell your potential boss, “Just pay me what you think I’m worth.” You have a minimum amount you are willing to take and you have to articulate that you know that amount without dictating it to your potential employer.
Its just a tactful way of saying “Hey, I know what I’m worth.”
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
i think some of it stems from proving his doubters wrong.
its more like a proved that i could do well when y’all said i couldn’t. i dont follow anyone on twatter but his overall demeanor has improved. i think he still loves houston but will definitely not sign for cheap.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Nice find.
Obviously, it probably 100% accurate (contract money distribution isn’t released, guys have “restructured” without the terms being released, etc.), but it’s the best estimate I’ve seen.
The Texans have some things going for them.
1. They appear to be leading a division that only has one horse for the race. If players want a chance to win superbowls then getting into the playoffs is a huge deal. If the Texans might have a shorter track to the playoffs then that would make me inclined to think this is on the players minds.
2. Texas has favorable taxes for the upper echelon brackets, this translates into major money saved when singing a major deal. (Unlike my curent state)
3. There is continuity, sure a couple people come and go, but the front office has had the same game plan in effect and has started to produce some dividends. Getting good offensive talent later in drafts, and finally having a defense mind around to direct the talent that has been drafted on that side of the ball.
4. The playoff game atmosphere is just a taste of what is to come at Reliant, give the City a winning football team and that place will be impossible for opposing organizations. Having a roaring fan base also drives players to those cities for a chance to play in sold out atmospheres.
Just a couple, as I’m sure plenty of items were missed, but those were just a few on the subject.
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
by WreckNTexan on Feb 7, 2012 10:14 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
A quick response
1. Don’t underestimate the BESFs next year.
2. We have no [income]Tax for any income bracket in Texas (which does not contradict your statement that we have a better tax rate…LOL..no tax is definitely a better tax rate than any other rate.)
3 and 4. Excellent incentives both.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
And yet some athletes (Pujols) take offers from states with income taxes
I think I heard an analysis that he may make less money than from an offer in a non-income tax state.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 8:56 PM CST up reply actions
This is true
I worked in Chicago for several years. My salary was higher than the equivalent job here in Texas by half as much again. But, after you took into account the taxes and the cost of living, my paycheck was a lot shorter. I couldn’t wait to move back to Texas.
Funny thing was , when I told Chicagoans that Texas has no income tax, they either didn’t believe me, or though that we made up for it with higher property taxes, or sales taxes. They just couldn’t believe that we were lower on all accounts and still were a richer state.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
For athletes it's kind of a mixed bag
You get taxed on (at least part of) your income earned in other states (assuming they have a state income tax), but at the same time their total numbers are so high that a small percentage difference is still a lot of money
everyone seems to be hung up on names
ted ginn? seriously? thats the last guy I want on my team.
Im amazed at how little knowledge about our team some people have.
royal
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
Ginn is much cheaper
and he is a really good returner. He’s basically another Jacoby that is better at everything for 1/3 the cost. Royal isn’t all that much better than Ginn and will cost more.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
if ginn is so great, then why did san fran ask him to restructure or let his ass go?
san francisco has no consistent receivers and yet they wanted someone so great to leave? how does that make any sense?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
I think they just wanted him as a returner, therefore they wanted to restructure his contract
You are right, he has not been a successful WR.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
He's not great
I’m not talking about great. Walter and Jones aren’t great, Ginn would improve the roster from what we have now for much cheaper.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Teddy Ginn
is not an improvement at WR over who we have. Our punt returner doesn’t have to be a WR.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
I would venture to say
Ted Ginn Jr is only an upgrade over Trindon Holiday.
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
really good returner? really?
In theory yes, because he is fast. but he cant play WR, especially for the texans. If his name was jon campbell or some shit, you wouldnt be mentioning him
1/3 of the cost? he wont sign for 1 mil a year
royal is 10 times the receiver ginn ever was or will be. its not close. WOW
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I think all the Texans have to do
is make Mario a comparable offer, I think he would take less to stay here and chase a ring. You have a favorable tax situation in the city that drafted him that is a contender. Why wouldn’t he want to stay? I think it would take someone just REALLY breaking the bank for him to leave and I don’t think there is anyone willing to do that with his injury history. I think Mario will be back.
why would he take less????
I dont understand where people get that idea that someone loves the city and all this crap.
Mario will go to the higest bidder, PERIOD. You dont give a hometown discount, especially when it ISNT your hometown and you are 27 in your prime.
come on folks
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
I don't agree
with your belief that players won’t give a hometown discount…but I do agree that he won’t take much less than the highest offered. I want to say the Texans and Astros both have offered high contracts only to have a player go with their “hometown” for less.
Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.
Honey Badger for President
I meant hometown discount when it ISNT THEIR HOMETOWN
mario is from NC, could care less about the “city” of houston
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
if he was from here its different, youre right
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
so you are saying he would go to NC if they offered him less?
I think the location has less to do with it than his team mates, his coaches, his opportunity to excel and playoff potential.
I would also say that Houston aint such a bad place to live, and I have known many people who like it better than their hometown. Mario could be one.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Houston is my adopted home. I certainly didn't have to choose to move here permanently after college.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
I think factors like playing where you are comfortable
with a team that is a contender is important as well. With the tax situation in a lot of instances he could take a contract that paid more total dollars and make less money for just one example of why Texas is preferable to a lot of places. If the Texans make a comparable offer, he stays here. Who is going to break the bank for a player that has never stayed healthy in his career? I’m sure there will be a desperate team out there that will, but is it worth it to take a little extra money to be in a worse situation? I’m not sure it is.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
rams and bears
could both make it work, and he is buddies with okoye who is loving chicago.
Mario and Antonio are real good friends so hopefully that helps
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
But do they break the bank for
Mario knowing his injury history? I think the Texans could match a lot of the offers he is going to get because GM’s will likely be weary of committing too much guaranteed money to a player who always gets hurt.
by Bobbythegreat on Feb 7, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
not sure
but the rams would risk it. they have $$$ to spend
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
They used a 1st
on Robert Quinn. I dunno if the would want to stunt his growth.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
but long play DT on passing downs, and fisher like depth
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
This is awesome
you guys realize we’re debating if our #2 WR is better than X when other teams are concerned about QB, WR1, RB1, etc.? Who would have though that 1 season removed from a 6-10 record we would be mostly concerned with #2 WR, if we should/shouldn’t try to resign Mario, and if I should keep eating lunch at a crappy Ninfa’s location.
Ok, maybe that last one isn’t AS important. Still, what a nice change of pace.
Thank you Texans for 2011.
The 2012 season can't start soon enough.
Honey Badger for President
^This
Well, not so much the Ninfa’s issue… :)
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I am Barry - I am from Texas
by Barryfromtexas on Feb 7, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Sigh...Ninfa's...
Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.
Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.
Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.
I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!
by UprootedTexan on Feb 7, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
So sad. The one on Richmond was less than half full on a Saturday night when I was there last year,
and it was obvious why: it sucked.
How about the original one in the East End? Can anyone give us ex-patriots an update?
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
It was pretty good about three months ago.
Seemed to be a pretty good crowd there on an off-night. Still excessively priced for Tex-Mex, though.
Yeah, but Ninfa's is a cut above standard Tex-Mex, wouldn't you say?
At least the old Navigation Ninfa’s I remember from the ’80s was.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
That one is good.
The other Ninfa’s licensed the name, but are not affiliated with the name.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 8:27 PM CST up reply actions
Gringo's for me
I would rather hit up Gringo’s, that is my in town stop. Place is bomb, for chain Tex Mex
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
Gringo's is pretty good.
What part of town? The only two Gringo’s I know of are off 59 in the Stafford area and Richmond/Rosenberg.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 8:58 PM CST up reply actions
Pearland is where I go
Then there is Texas City, Fuqua, couple others.
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
When I was in town over Xmas, we ate at Little Pappasito's on Richmond.
It was pretty damned good. I’d go back for the chipotle shrimp.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Hard to go wrong with Pappasitos.
Try the Wave (margarita floating in sangria).
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
Sounds borderline toxic.
I will, next time.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
With a Pink Floyd chaser.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
Ahh I'm not familiar with that area.
Used to know Fuqua, back when I was a student. My wife (then my girlfriend and later finacee) and I would go there to eat, since UH is not exactly a great area of town.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 7, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Since this is a salary cap update, i've got to ask a question.
if player x was some unknown, but you saw his stats would you sign him for x amount of dollars? for example, mario williams in this case is a freak of an athlete. However, as a football player if you look PURELY at stats he hasn’t done enough to warrant breaking the bank on him.
I would love to re-sign him but his injury history has not been the greatest and you don’t all of a sudden get healthier as you get older. now he is entering 27 and the next 5 years would essentially be him prime years. do you pay him on what he could be? keep in mind that we don’t know how much longer wade will stay here. Let’s say he stays here two years. Who do we get after him that has experience teaching this system?
He is a really good defensive end but what will you pay him to play? you say linebacker now but in two years, will you be for restructuring his deal to pay him more if he plays de, or will you trade him to another team? what about cutting him?
if we look at the short term, then hell yeah go all in. but we also have to look at long term return and risk. i dont know what is going to happen but i hope we look at all of our players without emotion attached to our judgement. It is extremely difficult to do, but once you start valuing PLAYERS over the TEAM you begin to have big problems.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 7, 2012 2:27 PM CST reply actions
We’re gonna get a huge cap discount on his services from last year if he signs long term.
I don’t think we’ll get a FA for much savings over him, either, so its essentially Mario or a rookie. I could be convinced that either way will work. But if the numbers work out where we keep our FAs and trim a little of the fat, I say lets take this team, add some draft picks and see how we compete with a healthy offense.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I know he's old and scary
but I’d still take a flyer on Randy Moss
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