Prioritize It: Rank The Importance Of The Moves The Texans Should Make This Offseason
by Tim on Feb 9, 2012 1:21 PM CST
in General BRB Idiocy
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PrintAs we sit here in early February, still weeks before free agency begins in earnest and 2.5 months (sigh) before the 2012 NFL Draft, weigh in with your thoughts as to how your Houston Texans should prioritize their offseason moves.
Is signing Chris Myers to a new contract more important than signing Mario Williams? Is inking Arian Foster to a long-term deal more important than coming to terms with Myers or Super Mario?
Is cutting Jacoby Jones the first move they should make? Or the second?
Is finding a wide receiver through free agency a bigger priority than finding one in the draft?
It's a pretty wide open discussion--as posts this time of year tend to be--so feel free to mix in other action items you believe should be addressed this offseason as well (e.g., signing Duane Brown to an extension, signing Matt Schaub to an extension, etc.). Sound off in the Comments.
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No.1 sign Arian
No. 2 Myers
No. 3 Williams
No. 4 Cut Jacoby.
and the clouds opened up and God said "I Hate you Texans Fans."
Our Andre, who art from Heaven, hallowed by thy name.
Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on Earth as it is in Canton.
by Joe25 on Feb 9, 2012 1:25 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Agreed to the MAX!
I think they can find a capable WR in the 1st or 2nd round. WRs look pretty deep this draft. If not they can find one via Free agency, there are a lot this summer.
Also I think drafting an NT and some O-line depth are important.
Nobody understands how valuable mario is
1. Sign Mario
2. Sign Foster
3. Sign Myers
4. Restructure contract of Ryans and Walter
5. Cut Jacoby
6. Draft a WR in the first and or 2nd round
If we resign Mario williams next year we will have the best defense in the NFL by far. Everyone is underestimating how good mario really is. He may have had 20 sacks had he been healthy this year and he is so young he will be great for a really long time at least for another 6 seasons. There are few players in the league like him in the league. Runningbacks are in their prime for tops 5 or 6 years and weve halready had two fro foster. So Foster has 3 or 4 years until his contract is hurting us. I agree we need to keep him because he is just sooo good, but resigning mario should be the top priority. If we let anyone go from myers, foster and williams it has to be myers he is looking to get big bucks because his reputation is that he is arguably the best center in the league, but finding a cost effective replacement should not be a problem.
Arian First
1. You have to take care of Arian. Lock him up long term. This could prove difficult, though.
2. Chris Myers – He is an anchor on that line.
3. Explore options for Matt Schaub’s deal.
4. Throw a nice Going Away Party for Mario. He has been good, but will be far too expensive.
5. Cut Jacoby. He gets a sheet cake from Sams. No party.
6. I believe a WR can be had in the draft but with the bevy of WRs hitting the market you might be able to get a vet on the cheap as well as your draft pick.
7. Draft for depth at OL and OLB.
8. …
9. Profits!!!
I can run faster horny than she can scared
by DeathBySexy on Feb 9, 2012 1:27 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
While I agree with his sentiment & logic, the only thought that pops is my mind is.......
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
A melodramatic article on an overblown topic
This read like a 4th grade report on “Why can’t we all just get along?”. I invite the author to see what would happen if he wore a Giants or Eagles jersey in Dallas. Such is the nature of sports, Cody. Get over it.
Generalized stereotypes of an entire city based off of his experiences wearing an obnoxious Cowboys jersey? For shame.
Imagine that. You got yelled at by a fan from a rival team while wearing your gear on foreign turf. I want to show you something. Its my shocked face.
by brightshinies on Feb 9, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
/violins play
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
FRANK!!!
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for Geico baby commercial reference.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli
"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson
"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock
Never try to baptize a cat.
Oops, I meant eTrade baby commercial.
"My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." -- Benjamin Disraeli
"If you really want something in life you have to work for it. Now quiet, they're about to announce the lottery numbers." -- Homer Simpson
"There is no rehab for stupid." -- Chris Rock
Never try to baptize a cat.
Thats interesting. I hated them at first,
but when they did the one with the dog in front of the crib, and he says, “At least you coulda given a warning bark.” when the mom comes in and takes his tab. After that one I was hooked.
They are kinda creepy, but the humor is good.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 10, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions
All I know is the ass-clown Dallas fans who sat in our section at Reliant last Cowboys game sealed forever my hatred for that team and their fans
Two of these idiots had front row seats in our upper deck section and wanted to stand the whole freaking game, and they were behemoths blocking several rows worth of people behind them (regulars in our section). They would also turn around and taunt the majority of the section (Texans fans), flip the bird, dance like idiots, etc.
It got so bad that a few fans finally snapped and started getting physical with them to the point I was convinced they were going to get their asses kicked over the rail by the mob they had fueled to the point of insanity.
Screw their team and their fans. I know a few folks I work with who like Texans and Cowboys, and they are not pompous idiots, so it’s not ALL of them….but it damn sure seems to be MOST of them.
No. 1 is the draft
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Restructure contracts
1.restructure ryans, walter contract cut jacoby he not the answer and never will be.
2.sign arian and meyers.
3. Sign Mario to a incintive type deal.
4.draft Justin Blackmon
by Allhoustonsportsfan on Feb 9, 2012 1:50 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Blackmon ain't falling to #26 & we aren't trading up that high to get him
Get rid of that pipe dream & be realistic
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be scared if he did fall to us
look what Kubiak said about Okoye. He couldn’t believe he fell all the way to us! I guess there was a reason.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Yeah, there was a reason Okoye fell to us. He was too young to play in the NFL & somehow was draft eligible
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
Getting a deal done with Arian is #1.
IMO there’s a real chance we have ourselves a HoF player here if he stays healthy for a few years.
Second is maintaining the integrity of the O line by re-signing Myers and ensuring there’s some quality depth.
Third is getting more WR talent, with a view to finding Andre’s successor. This naturally involves sending Jacoby off to seek “new opportunities”.
Fourth is making sure Wade has quality depth at OLB by signing Mario, if possible, or through the draft/FA if not.
Disclaimer: If Schaub has a chronic health problem, resolving the QB situation jumps to #1 and stays there until it’s done.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I know there is concern about the lingering effects of Schuab's injury
But do those concerns really apply to someone of his skill set? It’s not like he was mobile or ran a lot before the injury. That type of injury could be career threatening to a RB, WR, etc. but is is really to teh Schaub? I am not familiar at all with Lisfranc injuries.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Lisfranc is probably not likely to be a major problem for Schaub.
But there are the suspicions that he has had other injuries that are not known to the public, that affect his ability to throw.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 9, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
This is news to me?
Any particulars on the speculation? Nature of mystery injury, etc?
by brightshinies on Feb 9, 2012 3:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think there have been rumors about his shoulder
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
See FreedomRide below.
I make no comment on the matter, just that suspicion has been there.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 9, 2012 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not talking about his foot. That will probably be fine.
I’m talking about his arm or shoulder. I think there’s been something wrong there for a while.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Love me some Arian!
1) Restructure contracts.
2) Sign Arian to a long term.
3) Sign Myers.
4) Obviously try and get a deal done with Mario. Still think another teams 18 wheelers gonna have a shit ton of money in Marios driveway.
5) Wouldn’t mind signing a fa wr if he’s the right fit and right price but draft would be my bet.
by Dmo_Htx on Feb 9, 2012 1:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I like this line of thinking
I would also factor Brisel in there as well.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Trade
Why wouldnt you trade up for him you would give this year 27th pick next yr hopefully 32nd pick and next 2nd rounder not pretty bad for blackmon
by Allhoustonsportsfan on Feb 9, 2012 1:58 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Because it's gonna cost a hell of a lot more than that to move up that high
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
That what it cost atlanta
That exactly what atlanta payed for julio jones last yr and I believe he was 6th pick over all and I believe it was the browns which 4th pick this year so it a realistic trade
by Allhoustonsportsfan on Feb 9, 2012 2:05 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Hit the sauce early today, huh?
Where’s the good happy hour?
by The Arian Race on Feb 9, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Atlanta gave up swapped their 1st pick last year, gave up their 2nd, then gave up their 1st & 4th this year
I would not give up two 1st round picks, a 2nd, & a 4th for Blackmon
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Blackmon
We would give up this year 27th next year 32nd meaning we win the superbowl and a second and a fourth this guy could be andre successor
by Allhoustonsportsfan on Feb 9, 2012 2:25 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
the problem is that this isn't madden.
whoever we trade to , has got to want to drop that far. Not just that, but there are too many good receivers to screw up the entire team for one player. Also, there is absolutely no guarantee that this team will perform the same next year. Half of the teams that make the playoffs one year, don’t repeat the next. This applies to the Texans. Finally, building a super bowl contender isn’t about going all in on one player.
It’s a team effort. one guys can screw it up, but it still takes an entire roster to make sure that it costs them the game. However, no ROOKIE has even just come in and won a super bowl for a team. If he has, then I don’t know about him. And in that case, it doesn’t happen every year. Think logically about what you are wanting. 4 picks for a guy who has potential but no GUARANTEE to be great or even good.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
Half of the teams that make the playoffs one year, don’t repeat the next. This applies to the Texans.
Screw you an’ yer damned reality! I’m keepin’ my buzz goin’!
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
so?
that means HALF as in 50% do make it back……soooo the common saying dont see the galss half empty but half full
All I want to do is FAAAARRRRRRRRRMMMMMMMMM!!!....and COok.
So half of the Texans won't make the playoffs next year?
Not trying to dis you, just enjoying semantics.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
Still not worth it when the difference between Blackmon & most of the other WRs in this draft isn't that much
Blackmon is nowhere close to being the next Andre Johnson, & there isn’t a WR in this class that is. He just benefited from being in a pass happy offense in Ok St. The Texans aren’t a pass happy offense where he doesn’t have to block, & if Blackmon can’t block on run plays, he’s not worth trading up for
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:37 PM CST up reply actions
giving up 3 potential starters
For 1 guy is not worth it. 2 low #1s, and a 2ndand im counting the 4th as a throwaway pick. The history of the texans picks in those positions makes me not do this deal.
by McAggie on Feb 9, 2012 6:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Remember, we drafted Owen Daniels in the 4th round
A 4th rounder is not a throwaway pick
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
Blackmon isn't THAT good
I don’t know why ppl are over hyping him, he is the top of this class, but I would put him below Green, Jones, Bryant, Thomas, Nicks, and Britt as prospects from the last couple years. I wouldn’t give up a King’s ransom for Blackmon.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He's better than all those listed prospects....
Maybe not Green though.
He’s damn sure better than Bryant, Thomas, Nicks, and Britt.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I really am impressed with AJ Green. You are right about him.
I can’t say he is better than the others, but he sure could be in the conversation.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
AJ Green makes me feel foolish for even debating Green vs. Julio last year.
Guy was incredibly impressive.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I would consider it
well its only one 1st rounder a 2nd and a 4 I don’t think a swapped pick matters since we also get a 1st at number 6 so if you think about its not that bad
Sam I don't like you green eggs and ham, Sam I am
punctuation
learn how to use it properly
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
I love punctuation
“Let’s eat grandma” vs “Let’s eat, grandma”
“I helped my uncle jack off the horse” vs “I helped my uncle jack, off the horse”
by MeMongo on Feb 10, 2012 1:39 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
You can do them all in Tennessee.
Help your uncle jack, off his horse then help him jack off his horse. Then you can go inside the house and say “Let’s eat, grandma.” Then you can go eat grandma.
Matt Schoob, Mary O' Williams, Adrian Foster, Jacoby Ford, Kevin Walters, and Daniel Owens are my favorite Texans!
by MeSoLongHorny on Feb 10, 2012 8:47 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
No.1 - Cut Jacoby & make as many moves necessary to free up cap space
No.2 – Put the 1st & 3rd round tender on Foster to ensure he doesn’t go on the market, then sign him to a long term deal
No.3 – Put Franschise Tag on Chris Myers to keep him off the market, then negotiate a cap friendly long term deal with him
No.4 – Sign Mario to a new cap friendly contract with big guaranteed money with incentives included
No.5 – Move James Casey back to TE because we’ll be saying goodbye to Joel Dreesen & wishing him luck in Oakland
No.6 – See if it’s possible to upgrade at the FB position (Not sure if Vickers is the answer)
No.7 – Draft well
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:01 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Cut cut cut cut cut Jones.
For ever, and for ever, farewell, Jacoby!
If we do meet again, why we shall smile!
If not, why then, this parting was well made.
(Paraphrasing Julius Caesar, by some dude named Shakespeare.)
A sharp tongue is the only edged tool that grows keener with constant use.--Washington Irving
I don’t think you could be sure Arian wouldn’t go on the market with a 1st & 3rd tender.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
No team would give up their 1st & 3rd for any RB not named Adrian Peterson
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
You say that as if all NFL franchises are sane.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I thought the 3rd rounder no longer applied?
Isn’t it just a 1st rounder now?
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
No, there are 4 levels of RFA Tenders
3rd round, 2nd round, 1st round, & 1st & 3rd round. I’m sure those haven’t changed
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
Either way, the Texans should be able to match their offer sheet
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Teams won't spend a 1 on a running back.
Only 1 is projected to go round 1 anyhow…just don’t see it happening.
"Lord, beer me strength."
what if you have multiple picks?
for example, would cleveland draft a new prospect at runningback or go witha proven commodity? There is no guarantee that the Browns have even considered Foster an option but I think that some teams would give up a first for Arian. They would also be in charge of paying him, so Houston would not take a hit. His new team could decide to pay him a fuckton or just a metric fuckton.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take the first round pick
If I could get 2 WRs in round 1 or a WR and NT….or a WR/NT and an offensive lineman by letting a running back go? If Rick was aggressive, those two picks could even turn into a Justin Blackmon (would never happen, but it would be possible).
Ben Tate could start and that’d free up Houston to take a running back in the draft somewhere.
Arian’s situation is pretty win-win-win for Houston. They’ll either get a nice long term deal done, pay him a tender and get by cheaply for another year, or get a first round pick.
"Lord, beer me strength."
yes it is a win win for houston
as long as their perception doesn’t take a hit. If they let arian walk for a first, they have to make it look like they tried or they would not live it down. Business still a part of the game, but perception affects how and what players sign with your team.
I would love for Arian to retire as a Texan and help us win multiple super bowls but no player is bigger than the team. Except for Andre. He is untouchable
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
I hope it never comes to this
but this place would be a zoo if AJ ever ages/declines to the point that he isn’t worth his contract.
It’s hard enough for most of us to rationally assess Arian’s situation, and Andre would be 100x worse
With respect, you guys are out of your tiny minds.
Take a #1 for Arian? He’s THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM.
Number 1 draft picks come every year and often turn out to be guys like KJ and Okoye. Potential HoF RBs who can block and catch their asses off show up damned seldom.
Gotta keep Arian, which is why I am against tendering him in a league full of damned-fool front offices. It is safer and smarter to lock him up with a deal that rewards his value, without exposing him to the shark pool.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 9, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Yeah Arian should be top priority.
It’s not even a debate that Foster is far and away a better RB than Tate and was the best Texans offensive player this year.
He gives Kubiak what he’s been looking for since 2006. A stable running game that can take over games.
AF is Kubs Terrell Davis with a bigger impact in the passing game.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
I think it may be the best plan from the FO perspective
The team offering a contract has to afford giving us a first rounder PLUS a contract that we won’t outbid.
So that should, theoretically, keep the market bid lower, since there’s compensation in the form of a draft pick. So with a lower market, we match. If its Raiders/Cowboys insane money, we take the first round pick.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I think this is how this plays out
we tender Arian, and its cheap, $2.4M ?
I don’t think another team gives up their first round pick PLUS a contract that we can’t match.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Again, presumptions of sanity in NFL front offices are dangerous.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
this is after
we’ve already tried to negotiate a cap friendly / texans friendly deal, of course.
I’m almost ready to move past Arian, I think we’re good with him.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
OK, I was with you there, until you said
I’m almost ready to move past Arian
Do you mean you’re cool with letting him walk and starting Tate? ‘Cause I am WAY not cool with that. I think that might cost us a couple of games this year, and maybe a playoff game. Can’t have that.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
yea I'm with you on this one
There was a reason Kubes didn’t put TAte in the playoff game against the Ravens. Foster is by far the superior back to him and we MUST keep him
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 4:21 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
not to speak for texanphil
but I read it as he’s pretty confident we’ll resign Arian, and so he’s moving past talking about Arian and instead concentrating on our other free agents… may be wrong though
this saturday, 12.30 kickoff UK time I think
you’re 6 hours behind right? might be an early morning haha
by EnglishTexan on Feb 10, 2012 5:17 AM CST up reply actions
move past Arian
as being a concern this offseason.
If he doesn’t take a Texans friendly long term deal, we tender him at the first round level. We overpay slightly to match an offer, but we take the first round pick if its outrageous.
So I wouldn’t worry too much about his situation, is what I meant by “move past.” I’m very much for retaining Arian. But not at the expense of the team.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Whew!
Had me goin’ there.
I hope I am over-worrying the kind of tender offer he might get, but I remember what Snyder paid for Haynesworth.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
and he is the biggest candidate to pay a fuckton of money
the shanahans know he fits in their system and would instantly improve their team. the last good running back they had is on his last legs and arian would definitely fit in that locker room.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
and I'd take their #6 pick
and trade down if possible.
We could do some damage with that!
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
RGIII baby!
Kidding.
Would we get their #1 this year?
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
This!
Remember Arian is one of the top fantasy picks in the NFL. His presence means asses in the seats. That’s what it’s all about any way.
Why Jacoby,why? I mean, seriously?
Let's not forget
Signing Briesel too. And cutting/trading Leinart frees up space. And Jason Allen is probably gone, so more cap room.
"Sometimes my ninjitsu styles come out when I don’t even want ‘em to,"—Antonio Smith.
by HTown24 on Feb 9, 2012 3:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I heard that on the new CBA
The highest you can tender a player now is for only a first. You can’t include a third anymore unless I read it wrong
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 3:51 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
People are too blind by Arian Love...
No offense to Arian, but this zone-blocking offense has been proven to be a plug-n-play running game in the past, Ben Tate’s shown to be capable, and running in today’s NFL isn’t really required. Plus, Arian could be tendered and matched, if need be.
Obviously, I realize he’s a great talent, but it’s not the team’s biggest priority. That would be the man with the 90 on his chest. 26-years old, physically gifted….like Deacon Jones said, Houston would be stupid to let him walk.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Feb 9, 2012 2:35 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
it isn't about houston letting him walk.
it’s about what mary-o wants. He knows mcnair will pay him. Hell he made him the number one overall pick and absorbed a lot of the blame for taking him so high. He even backed up cush with the steroid allegations, and has gotten andre paid twice, and capn paid once. Mario and his agent would also be stupid to ignore how much money joseph got last year. So money won’t be the issue.
It’s all about how mario sees his value to the team and how much he wants to win. All of those seasons that he spent here and the team sucked, he took a huge part of the blame, warranted or not. This past season he was put in the position to do well and his body betrayed him. Due to IR rules his season ended even though he was healthy at the end of the year.
Now based on what we saw last year, logic would say that mario wants to be the guy on defense that gets the recognition. he knows that the entire defense switched, not just to be better, but to specifically showcase him. Better talent was brought in to remove some of the pressure on him, and allow mary-o to wreak havoc. Very few teams out there could offer the same to him. If he leaves, it will be only about one thing and that is money.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, admittedly, Mario and Myers are probably higher priorities to the Texans
Not to say Foster isn’t a priority. Love the guy blindly, but value-wise and system-wise, what TDC is saying is reality.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
But arguments can go both ways
Both Mario and Arian were out of the lineup at different time last season and we can all point to how the team kept marching on, even continuing to improve in their absence. So, I don’t know. I’m just talking, I guess.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
How about the Texans re-sign all three and we can all stop arguing about it....
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
No offense to Arian, but this zone-blocking offense has been proven to be a plug-n-play running game in the past, Ben Tate’s shown to be capable, and running in today’s NFL isn’t really required.
Might as well scrap the entire offense and coaching staff, then. As for having Tate behind him… Take a look at how we handled things offensively in the playoffs:
Foster: 51 carries, 285 yards.
Tate: 9 carries, 37 yards.
When it was win or go home, Kubiak ditched the platoon and put the game in Foster’s hands. That speaks volumes about his importance to this offense. And if we’re talking replacements, we have two guys who proved they could play OLB at a high level throughout an entire season (one of whom led the NFL in postseason sacks).
Selective sample sizes
Let’s forget Tate hit 942 yards with a 5.1 YPC over the course of the season in a back-up role.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Feb 9, 2012 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
in reality, Tate only got carries during the regular season to spell Arian anyway
so its logical that in a playoff Arian would be sent out there until he fell down exhausted.
The best measure is when Tate did get a chance, he performed well. He’s not as good as Arian, but that’s just my eyes talking. If he gets the big sample size, he may be.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
The point I was making is...
You don’t need to get the same production….just be effective enough to make teams respect the play action pass.
A 1st round pick for a running back is a no brainer in my mind, if the Texans wanted to play it like that.
"Lord, beer me strength."
You don’t need to get the same production
/boggle
A 1st round pick for a running back is a no brainer in my mind, if the Texans wanted to play it like that.
But Arian is not just "a running back ". He is the best player the Houston Texans have.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
dont agree that foster is best player
On the Texans. Andre still gets that nod in my book. I think Foster has benefited from the denver scheme, but he is a very good backregardless of scheme. He is not the future hof’er that andre is when healthy. I also think jj watt was right there with foster for best player on the Texans in the playoffs. Watt was a beast in the Ravens game. 12 tackles by a lineman is almost unheard of, much less a rookie. It is going to be fun to watch him as this is only his 3rd year playing defense.
by McAggie on Feb 9, 2012 6:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
We've had the Denver scheme since Kubiak arrived.
What RB produced in it like Arian?
Andre was the best player on the team in his prime and Watt may yet be, but Arian is right now.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 9, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd you again;)
I might have to make that last line my next sig.
I’m not even going to pretend I don’t suffer from Foster-bias, but I’m surprised the commenters on BRB don’t give Arian the same kind of love the general fanbase, media and fans of other teams give him. I really believe he is a special talent thriving in a well-matched system more than just a product of a great scheme.
In my case...
I’m thinking GMwise with my comments as opposed to a fan.
As a fan, I love Foster…hope he’s a lifetime Texan and Houstonian representative. However, the front office needs to think about a lot of variables…and it’d be short-changing the conversation if there wasn’t a point/counter-point.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I hear ya
but if my fanciful scenario plays out the way I hope, Rick won’t have to offer CJ2K money to sign Foster to a new contract and avoid RFA. Think about it like this: how many RBs in Foster’s situation last year would have held out? I think a lot of them would have, especially the aforementioned CJ. I think we’re much more likely to get a hometown discount with Foster than with Mario. I also think McNair questions Williams motor at times, but knows Foster is the real deal. I still have no idea what’s going on in Rick Smith’s beautiful mind, but I now have confidence in his abilities to get this done.
Yup, I think Smith & McNair will get it done.
But I’m still having paranoid fantasies about another team getting hints to Foster’s agent about a gold mine waiting for him if he turns down the Texans’ offer and gets tendered.
That’s a tampering violation, I believe, but I also believe most NFL FO’s are not above a little risky espionage to get what they want.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
In terms of re-signing
1. Arian: I remember the days when our running game was a black hole of despair. Never again. Never forget.
2. Myers: Only because I much more worried about our depth at OL than I am at OLB. All things equal, Mario’s a bigger priority for me.
3. Mario: Barwin and Brooks filled in admirably when Mario was out, but imagine having all three healthy and in rotation. Makes a great D even better.
It’d be nice to see some restructuring/extensions done, but only for the right people (Duane Brown). I don’t care when JJ is cut, so long as it happens. If we can get another WR throuigh free agency without sacrificing key players on our current roster (Myers, mario, etc.) that would be great, but we still need to target a WR with a high pick in the draft—if we can’t find an FA, then we should draft two WRs.
Other areas we need to focus on in the draft: OL, NT, DB.
"Every time you go to that cook-off you get drunk as a poet on payday!"
ahem.
1. Cut Jacoby Jones.
2. Trust front office knows what is doing.
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
i agree with this statement.
what upsets me is that tiquan was cut before the super bowl and jacoby remains on this roster. There must be something about his contract that has allowed him to still be a texan.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
But if #1 doesn't happen, should we trust them????
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
yes
but we should definitely question their decision to keep jacoby on the roster.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
mmm.... ima go with
yes, but only if walter stays on too. if they cut walter and not jacoby…
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES CUT JACOBY JONES
As we get closer to the draft, things will clear up a lot more. That much is obvious.
However, this team will base their philosophy on whatever free agents they bring in. Unlike previous year, an overhaul isn’t needed. Depth is still important but the spots that have to be filled aren’t many. We still have players from last year’s draft and the one before that who have not had too many opportunities to take the field either because of injuries or needing more time to get acclimated with the playbook.
I think the Texans will go BPA when it is all said and done. The defense will need more talent if Mario leaves, and if he doesn’t it could still use a nose tackle who is worth a shit. They could also draft more lilnebackers or even a corner. This team is far from perfect but based on the division they are in good shape.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 2:45 PM CST reply actions
1.Arian given contract extension
2A.Mario brought back
2B.If not retained a new OLB since depth there is pretty poor.
3.Reduce Walter’s contract cut/resign or simple cut
4A. FA WR if he doesn’t come back/plus drafted WR
4B.1st/2nd round WR pick if he does come back.
5.Chris Myers resigned.
6.Improve DL depth.
7.Potential new veteran CB if Allen isn’t retained.
8.Get everybody healthy.
9.Miscellaneous moves.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
I think I could answer the question 50 times and come up with 50 different answers
Ideally, I want to see the three players’ situations, Myers, Williams and Foster, be determined before the draft, because I think they could all affect the draft in some way. I’m hoping that we don’t find out how the negotiations are going by seeing how the Texans draft. If OLB becomes a high draft pick, then I would speculate that negotiations with Mario aren’t going good. What is the timing of free agency in relation to the draft, anyways?
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
FA is normally well before the draft.
Last year thanks to the lockout it came after the draft.
I don’t think they’ll use a high draft pick on an OLB if Mario is not retained since they have two starters there but they’ll be looking for one in the mid draft rounds/FA.Unless some guy at #26 turns out to be a must have talent.
But they have already sunk a ton of 1st/2nd picks into the defense I think (hope) they’ll spend those first two on offense because the unit is starting to age a bit in some areas.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
My turn
1. Cut Jacoby Jones to give us needed salary cap space
2. Restructure Kevin Walters contract, or Cut him and pray Jeff Mahl has had his nose in the play book.
3. Get Arian locked up, no question.
4. Get Meyers into a deal that isn’t crazy, as these last two years are his only seasons worth standing on.
5. Mario needs a similar type of Meyers deal, while he has freak attributes they can’t do anything from the sideline.
6. Dre isn’t forever young, he will need to have some help if we get rid of the two other WR behind him. Either FA or Draft, but I believe player will want to come here so the FA might have some pull for the Texans. (As was the case with Manning)
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
did y'all read the report on profootballtalk
That said Mario was gonna get the largest contract in the history of the NFL? Looks like there goes our chances of resigning him
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 3:44 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
God forbid you should include a link...
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 9, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I'm sorry but if someone offers him that good riddance
He has been too injury prone and lacks the drive of guys like Cushing or Watt. No way I make him the highest paid player in league history.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
yea I agree
Def not worth all that for JUST a pass rushing specialist
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 4:04 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
He shows up for the run, if I remember correctly
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
He plays both well actually.
I know some people felt he was a better run stopper than a pass rusher.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Where?
I see them talking about his Franchise tag price being absurdly to high but no mention of anybody willing to pay him the largest contract in NFL history which would make no sense.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
go to profootballtalk.com
Then click on fantasy mill and it should be like the 5th headline down
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 4:04 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
he basically says he expects Mario
To become the highest paid defensive player if he hits the open market
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 4:06 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Reeks full of opinion there.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Feb 9, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh okay highest paid defensive player in the league which makes sense because there may be a bidding war for him.
Makes me sick to see the Jags/Titans as possible landing spots though.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
yea sorry
I kinda over exaggerated lol. Do you know how much that would be a year? I’m not sure who is currently the highest paid defensive player but I’m pretty sure it would be close to what he made this last season. Prolly somewhere between 15-20 million which is WAY to high for Mario.
by Zukywich08 on Feb 9, 2012 4:17 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
15 mil maybe
but not by us. He made 13.5 last year. We will only come down from that to lower the cap hit. What we may do, though, is give him a bigger deal over a longer period of time.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions
Oof. Mario in a BESFs' uniform.
What a disgusting image that is.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
He would only last half the season any way
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
PFT is filled with guys who spout rumors
Don’t buy it.
"Lord, beer me strength."
by TexansDC on Feb 9, 2012 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
A team would be out of their minds to pay Mario even equal to DeMarcus Ware or Jared Allen
As a pass rusher, his primary roll is sacking the QB. Yes he also is good at run support, but his job is to sack the QB in this system. Mario doesn’t hold a candle to Ware or Allen. Here is a post that details a comparison of the three:
Highlight:
MARIO NFL SACK RANKING vs OTHER SACK LEADERS:
2011 – Tied for 66th with 5 sacks (Jared Allen led the league with 22 sacks, DeMarcus Ware ranked 2nd with 19.5 sacks)
2010 – Tied for 24th with 8.5 sacks (DeMarcus Ware led the league with 15.5 sacks)
2009 – Ranked 16th with 9 sacks (Elvis Dumervil led the league with 17 sacks, Jared Allen ranked 2nd with 14.5, DeMarcus Ware was tied for 7th with 11 sacks)
2008 – Tied for 7th with 12 sacks (DeMarcus Ware led the league with 20 sacks)
2007 – Tied with DeMarcus Ware for 3rd with 14 sacks (Jared Allen led the league with 15.5 sacks)
2006 – Ranked 82nd with 4.5 sacks (Shawne Merriman led the league with 17, DeMarcus Ware was 9th with 11.5 sacks)So in six seasons Mario has only finished in the TOP 5 one time where he was ranked (tied) for 3rd and only made the TOP 10 twice. He has never led the league in sacks. By the numbers, his agent has one hell of a challenge to compare him to DeMarcus Ware or Jared Allen who have both led the league twice in that same time frame over the last six seasons:
DeMarcus Ware:
2011 – 2nd
2010 – 1st
2009 – 7th
2008 – 1st
2007 – 3rd
2006 – 9thIn the last six seasons, Ware has led twice, was 2nd once, and 3rd once. That’s TOP 3 four out of six seasons and TOP 10 all six seasons.
Jared Allen:
2011 – 1st
2010 – 10th
2009 – 2nd
2008 – 5th
2007 – 1st
2006 – 30thAllen has led twice, was 2nd once and 5th once. That’s TOP 5 four out of six seasons and TOP 10 five out of six seasons.
It's not too out of its mind...
Pass-rusher who commands attention/extra blockers and hasn’t hit his prime….those kinds of guys don’t often hit the free market.
"Lord, beer me strength."
If I'm being practical...which I hate...
1) Mario is gone. BIG PARTY, but we can’t afford to mortgage the salary cap for one dude.
2) Resign Myers, and still think about drafting Konz in the first round.
3) Chase a complimentary number 2/3 receiver in free agency, and target ’Dre’s replacement in next year’s draft, if the 2 and 3 are set.
4) Continue to pursue inexpensive depth on the O-line, and LB/DB area (save a CB/S dropping into our laps because of character issues or a drug-related arrest).
And finally (sigh), I hate to say it, as Me Gusta Arian – this is a system running game. Arian is perfect for it, but you can’t fall in love with the expendable. /hates self, continues…
Tate (fumbles aside) does well in this system, as does Ward, and as will anyone with the one-cutback and go ability (hard to find, admittedly). But this is the same running system that Denver used to produce a string of 1000 yard rushers out of undrafteds and never-heard-of’s. We have one of the great ones, admittedly, but the NFL has changed boys and girls. Minnesota rode AP to 2-14 and the second pick in the draft. CJ2YPC got paid and turned in a season that a second-string JV high-school kid would find embarrassing. LeGarette Blount. Beast Mode. MJD. Some of the best runners in the game and NO ONE of that group made the playoffs (excepting Ray Rice). Two of the (statistically) worst defenses in the league with par or sub-par running games but excellent QB’s with good receivers and great TEs made the Super Bowl. Green Bay wasn’t far behind them.
I say pay him his RFA tender this year, and if the cap money is there next year, resign him. If he’s not going to be happy with RFA and some team throws sick money at him, let him go, start Tate, and look for FA’s and (after the draft) UDFA’s that fit your system. It may be hard to fathom, but we can find another back to fit our system. He won’t be another Arian – but if we’re being real, the run game no longer is pre-requisite to winning championships.
5) Also, cut Jacoby – his tweets will be missed, but his propensity to screw his head on sideways for gameday will not.
…sorry so long. Bored at work and all that.
Something clever and witty until I think of something awesome.
...by BIG PARTY...
…I meant throw him one. At Reliant. Let everyone come out and say goodbye (maybe that will move him enough to sign for less than market value, in which case scratch my #1)
Something clever and witty until I think of something awesome.
by texpatriateCO on Feb 9, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
I get the sentiment that the Denver running scheme gets good production from almost anyone
And Ward and Tate did do well, but they are still no Arian. He is far and away the better back when compared to either of those two. He is literally a game changer, and I don’t think you can let him walk just because the “system” can get production from lesser backs. Just my opinion.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Totally agree, regardless of the practicality of my post...
…but AP, and MJD and all those other backs I mentioned are game changers, too, but with a tight cap, you can’t go throwing money at one piece (see Manning, Peyton and the dilemma of having to cut a once in a lifetime QB who may get healthy, because you owe him 28mil and can’t run the risk that maybe he’s not…) – especially when that piece is a running back, who most coaches/systems now use two or more in a given scheme.
Something clever and witty until I think of something awesome.
by texpatriateCO on Feb 9, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry, but this idea that Arian is expendable is complete bullshit.
I can’t believe people have forgotten what the RB situation was like before he arrived, or how he so clearly established his superiority to Tate towards the end of the season, especially in the playoffs.
HE’S THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM, PEOPLE. We might not see his like again at RB for a lo-o-o-o-ng time.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 9, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would LOVE for the Texans to sign Arian to a long term deal...
but this:
I’m just trying to say you have several needs (not as many as in years’ past), an aging number one receiver, one of the premier pash rushers in the game, the anchor of the offensive line, STILL a need for a quality CB#2 (and back-up/starting safety help), and depth in a few places. Throwing 10-15% of the cap at one guy that isn’t your quarterback needs to be addressed when/if all the other pieces are in place and there is cap room.
Again – LOVE Arian. Would love to see him retire a Texan, but RB is no longer a priority position in today’s NFL…it’s the harsh reality of the way the game has changed.
/soapbox
Something clever and witty until I think of something awesome.
by texpatriateCO on Feb 9, 2012 4:33 PM CST up reply actions
"...RB is no longer a priority position in today’s NFL…."
I would argue that it is in Kubiak’s ZBS WCO. I can’t forget what happened when Terrell Davis arrived in Denver.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I think you have that backwards
Terrell Davis is a great example of this – do we point him out as an example because his great ability took the zone scheme to a new level? Or did the zone scheme allow Davis to shine leaving us will HOF memories of a guy we may never had heard of if he played elsewhere?
The ZBS was there a long time before TD got there.
He arrives: boom, two Super Bowl wins.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I'm in this boat
TD and the system fit well. Like Arian and the System, plus the talent around the line. If Arian goes to Seattle, or Washington he probably doesn’t have the same numbers
True arrogance has been displayed here- WestministerRavensfan or something
Hi My name is Jack, why don't you help me off?
Thats a little decieving
After Davis, they still got 1000+ yard seasons out of Orlandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, and Tatum Bell. That trend tells you the scheme is more important than the RB.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
But it doesn't tell you having a superb running back is irrelevant.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Actually
yes it does. Go look up their stats and compare the production they got from TD versus the rest of that crew. You can pick whatever kind of stats you want (aggregate yards, per carry, advanced metrics, whatever you want) and I think you’ll be shocked at how similar they are
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
apples to oranges
to me, this whole Denver argument is way overblown. This is a different league, with different dynamics in our division and on our team.
I think it should be a full year of Tate being the #1 back vs. Arian as the discussion, unless we magically find someone who can beat out Tate.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
I did that for the 14 Shanahan years and I saw a back (Davis)
whose performance was superior to those who followed him. He had consecutive years of 1117, 1750 and 2008 yards before he was injured. In the remaining years only Portis (an excellent back, himself) made over 1,500 yards (twice), and there were two years with no 1,000-yard back at all.
That doesn’t show me that TD’s superiority was simply a product of the system Yes, it was a good system for running backs, but he made it better than it was at any other time during the Shanahan era.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 10, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting way of reading it
I think you are missing something there because of them using the RB by committee approach as opposed to one RB. Shanahan was there from 95 to 2008 and the team rushing totals look like this:
Year – Carries/Yards Rate
95 – 440/1995 4.5
96 – 525/2362 4.5
97 – 520/2378 4.6
98 – 525/2468 4.7
99 – 465/1864 4.0 *This is where TD starts tailing off
00 – 516/2311 4.5 *TD’s final year
01 – 481/2940 3.9
02 – 457/2266 5.0
03 – 543/2629 4.8
04 – 534/2333 4.4
05 – 542/2539 4.7
06 – 488/2152 4.4
07 – 429/1957 4.6
08 – 387/1862 4.8
It should probably also be noted that during the TD years Elway was contributing some quality rushes to that total.
So basically you have one year where they were off, made some adjustments and then kept on rolling with nearly identical (and sometimes better) production. The difference being that during the TD years it mostly came from 1 person, and a cheap committee later on
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
So do you conclude from this that we should tender Foster? Then let him
walk if he’s offered anything more than we are paying Tate now?
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I’m just trying to say you have several needs (not as many as in years’ past)
Actually this team is in the best possible shape perhaps ever in team history.
an aging number one receiver
True but he’s still been in the league only 9 or 10 years. You can get 3-4 real good years out of him since it’s easier for a WR to maintain a higher level of play over an extended NFL career.
one of the premier pash rushers in the game
Only if he’s willing to take a home town discount. Texans can’t realistically compete with some of the other teams with a higher level of cap room. Not to mention next years FA crop includes Schaub,Duane Brown,and Connor Barwin.
the anchor of the offensive line
You could say that’s Duane Brown since he’s turned into perhaps their best OL. Especially when that interior OL can get knocked around at times (see Raiders game or first Ravens game).
STILL a need for a quality CB#2 (and back-up/starting safety help),
Yeah the need someone to take Allen’s place but I doubt anybody in the FO see that’s as a need plus we have decent Safety depth already with Demps and Nolan.
Again – LOVE Arian. Would love to see him retire a Texan, but RB is no longer a priority position in today’s NFL…it’s the harsh reality of the way the game has changed.
Unless you’re talking about the Texans in which half the offense (in 2011 even more than half) revolves around the running game and Arian Foster being the best runner and second/third best receiving option.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
Dont wanna remember the days before Foster.
In my eyes, Foster IS the best back in the league even in this system. I can’t even remeber all the runs where he’s turned what look like 5 yard gains into 20 or 3 yard losses into 5. Not to mention his receiving ability. Just look at his stats from this season while still missing 3.5 games. He’s a game changer and ill cry for a whole month if we lost him.
by Dmo_Htx on Feb 9, 2012 4:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ditto. I can't believe how quickly people have forgotten the years we sucked at RB.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
They drafted Tate
To address the suckage at RB, and he got hurt in the pre-season and missed his entire rookie year. Based on his production when healthy he would have put up similar rushing #s as Foster if he had not gotten hurt, and Foster would probably be the backup now. Of course that didnt happen and Foster made the most of his chance. But it does say the system probably has something to do with it when both of them have simalar per carry #s.
by McAggie on Feb 9, 2012 6:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Foster is a better blocker, receiver and runner than Tate.
In a way, it’s fortunate that Tate got hurt, so we didn’t have to wait too long to find out.
Yes, the system suits Foster. It suits Tate, too. But Foster makes the system dominating.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
This is a perfect example of what I have been trying to say about drafting a WR
so many have argued that we need to draft a D lineman, or OLB, or an O lineman or even a CB 1st, because we can plug anyone into the WR slot with Kubiaks system. My point has been that even if that is true, another deep threat will take the system up a notch.
This also applies to resigning Mario. Maybe our personel will do fine without him, but keeping him takes that D to a whole different level.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
This idea that we shouldn’t worry too much about finding and keeping great players just mystifies me.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
this is all true
and I think most people would agree that Foster is the obvious choice to start.
It only becomes a discussion if he asks for too much. Then the $10M question, how much is too much?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
totally agree with all of this
but then you have to set a limit on what you’ll spend.
Is he worth a cap hit in 2012 of $10M? Andre is $9, now the highest since Mario is off the books.
I don’t think he is. The best part about this is we actually get compensation if there’s a rogue out there willing to pay that much.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
That's what scares me, a lunatic offer that not even I would be in favor of matching.
Pathetic fanboi that I am, even I have my limits. But idiocy in NFL front offices knows no limits.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
so we're on the same page
you’d let him walk if he costs more than AJ, right?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Just a quick question...
But what would be your ideal deal for Arian?
by Dmo_Htx on Feb 9, 2012 4:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
ideal
I think the first round tender is $2.4. That’s ideal, assuming nobody bites,and we push it forward until 2013 where $8M of dead money comes off the books.
If we sign him, I looked at a few cap numbers on RBs and $5 – $6 would be ideal for 2012 and 2013. I wouldn’t be too concerned about 2014 and beyond. If he wants $8M against the cap in either year, I’d start to lean towards the tender.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Thats about what I came up with. Maybe even 7.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:22 PM CST up reply actions
I dunno what my actual limit is.
I’m getting all sweaty and anxious just thinking about it.
I swear, if some fool puts up QB money and takes Arian away I’ll…I’ll…
…cry.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I don't think McNair and Foster will let it come to that.
McNair knows he’s a special player and he’s been loyal to the team and I don’t think Arian is the kind of person that must maximize his earning potential. That’s why I think they get a long-term deal done and he never sees the RFA market.
I know that’s a lot of assumptions and rationalizations, but it’s working for me at the moment. But if I’m wrong and he leaves, I’ll be crying too.
It's a system where....
A bunch of no names can hit 1,000….
…A 2nd round back-up has shown he can make due…
…and in a league where the running game is not as important as it once was (to the extent that terrible running teams are running Super Bowls).
He’s expendable. That’s the reality of today’s NFL combined with the ZBS’ history. You don’t need to overpay for a running back.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I'd overpay a little for Arian
but it needs to have a cap friendly 2012 AND 2013.
And, correct me if I’m wrong, he doesn’t really have a say in the matter, does he? We tender, another team offers him, we match. Is he even involved?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Correct.
He’s not really involved. The Texans can match any deal if he’s tendered.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Sorry man, but that is complete horseshit.
If all he was was a thousand-yard back, I’d agree. But he’s much, much more than that.
Is it possible to pay him too much? Of course. I would be against paying him franchise QB money. But he’s still worth paying a pretty goddamned high premium for.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I never said I don't want him back
but I wouldn’t overpay or make him priority one (especially since he’s a RFA and can be retained on a tender or essentially dealt for a 1st round pick….which is a huge safety net).
"Lord, beer me strength."
Dealt for a 1st round pick? You'd be ok with that?
It would break my heart, I promise you.
I’ve been watching this game since George Blanda was my QB, and I can count the truly exceptional players who have been on my teams on two hands with fingers left over. I think Foster might be another one. If he is and we lose him, it will be an enormous loss to the sporting world of this city. We don’t get many; we need to hold onto the ones who come our way.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I'd be okay because...
That could potentially mean Michael Floyd + Dontari Poe….with a capable Ben Tate toting the rock.
Wouldn’t be my choice, but that’s a good safety net to have if you’re Houston.
"Lord, beer me strength."
I would not be OK.
We would not have as good a team.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
not sure about that
if Arian costs too much, and it limits us elsewhere, then we may not have as good a team perhaps this year, but def in 2013 and beyond.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
No way am I saying we should mortgage the future and pay whatever it takes to keep Arian.
I’m arguing here against the idea that a compensatory #1 should make losing him OK . There is not a player in this draft I would trade Arian for.
There might be some 10-year All-Pros in there, but right now every one of them is a pig in a poke.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 10, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
How long has it been since Campbell?
Another year or two like his last 2 and Foster begins to walk with that class.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think a lot of people are under the assumption
That this plug’n’play ZBS is so accommodating that a slightly lesser Arian clone can be found in the draft or FA relatively easily. This isn’t the case in the least, as far as I’m concerned. FreedomRide is right. His vision and skill set are exceptional for anyone’s standards, and a presence of his caliber in the NFL is rare; once every 10, 20 years kind of caliber. The question is, in a league with a cap, how much do you invest in any single player? The debates could rage forever..I’m glad I don’t have to make the big decisions. Use the force, Rick.
by brightshinies on Feb 9, 2012 4:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
But we already have him
Ben Tate is on the roster, and had some of the best rate stats of ANYONE in the league last year. I’m not saying he is better than Arian (although someone will certainly reply to this and say that I am), just pointing out that we aren’t talking about a huge dropoff in productivity here.
No one is suggesting that we drop Arian for some UDFA that may or may not pan out
True, but I have seen some outrageous suggestions
I definitely think there’s less of a drop off in production between Mario and our other OLBs than there is between Foster and Tate.
by brightshinies on Feb 9, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions
That's a tough one for me
Barwin had a great year but I think there is a considerable drop off between Mario and Reed.
Also, OLB in Wade’s defense is arguably way more important than RB to our offense. We happen to have a great running team, but we’re not a run-first team like Baltimore (assuming Schaub is healthy of course)
We're absolutely a run-first team.
We were tied for first in rushing attempts last season. Two teams passed the ball less than us, and one of them had Tebow at QB. Even when Schaub was healthy, we were last in the league in passing attempts per game. Everything about this season and Kubiak’s history indicates that we strive to be a run-first team.
As for OLB being more important in Wade’s system; I don’t know why that would be. We have the most productive blitzing ILB in football, a solid SOLB, and two of the best pass-rushing 3-4 DE/4-3 DTs in the league. We spread our sacks out so much that our defense hardly hinges on any one player in the front seven.
There’s certainly no measurable drop-off without Mario. I suppose you could say the same about Foster, except that, weren’t we all complaining about the red-zone offense after the first three games of the season? I don’t remember that coming up much once Foster returned to the lineup.
From listening to Kubiak
I hear “play-action team”. The running is important to setup but the PA is where we do the most damage.
As far as most important defensive position – just look at nearly every team Wade has had with the exception of Bruce Smith. Just because we have talent at other positions (which is a hell of a nice change) doesn’t mean those positions are more important. For example, I think Cushing is great and absolutely thrives with Wade, but have you ever seen a 3-4 built around a great ILB with no strong outside threat?
I think wade has said that he thinks Mario can be the next Bruce Smith.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
Point to Nash on the red zone
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/redzone.htm?loc=interstitialskip
Arian Foster’s easily the team’s best red zone threat (although there’s a small asterisk since Schaub didn’t play the full season which could’ve changed things).
"Lord, beer me strength."
Do you see the irony here?
You say we can’t find anyone in the draft that could replace Foster’s production, yet Foster went undrafted.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
And that happens how often?
It’s not that great players can’t be found, it’s that they are rare.
No one says we can’t find another Foster, just that it might be a helluva long time before we do. That’s why we need to hang onto the one we have.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Terrell Davis
went in the 6th round.
While not the easiest of tasks, its not impossible to replace them. I want to resign Foster. I just don’t want to overvalue him.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Our RB situation back then
had as much to do with A) a shitty combo of line talent + scheme, and B) Overpaying a veteran talent who was “special” in his prime in the right system but was out of both.
Honestly, Domanick Davis/Williams would have looked better in this system than what he ran behind.
I love Arian, as a player and interesting human being, but we all keep seeming to forget our system. We have a great line playing a great gameplan. That is our leverage point, our unique ability that most or all other teams don’t have. The whole point of this system is that you don’t have to spend scarce resources on a RB. The saving of said resources allows you to spend on other (potentially more important) areas.
It’s not about whether Arian is better than Tate, or even if Arian is a hall of famer. You set a price as to what a RB of his caliber is worth to you, and if negotiations go above that you let him walk (and preferably get a 1st out of the RFA).
Honestly, Domanick Davis/Williams would have looked better in this system than what he ran behind.
He was a better back than any that came after him until Arian. But would he have been as good as Arian the last two years? HELL no.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Oops
“Honestly, Domanick Davis/Williams would have looked better in this system than what he ran behind.”
should have been a quote.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Never said he would look better than Arian
just that he would look even better than what he did in the Carr era.
We are in the business of winning football games, not sending players to the HOF in Texans jerseys or accumulating rushing yards. The latter may sound nice but they don’t necessarily go together
If I didn't think we'd win more games with Arian at RB, I wouldn't be in favor of paying him a premium.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Ok, here goes:
I calculated almost $10M of cap space available heading into the offseason. I’m not privy to the exact number, but working off that calculation, I think we can sign Mario without moving anyone. That’s my number one.
If he wants money like he got last year, then I’m moving on to number two. If he’ll work under our cap, sign him.
Number two is Arian Foster. If we sign Mario, we have to move somebody to sign Arian. Jacoby Jones goes first, with Leinart close behind. I only cut who we need to, in that order, to sign Foster, however. I’d explore trade options for Leinart first. If Foster wants CJ money, he gets the first round tender and we test the market.
Number three is Myers and Brisiel. Both of them if possible, and if we don’t get Mario we should be able to get both back.
The only reason Arian is my number two is because of the way the cap has to be manipulated. There’s a high likelihood he’s a Texan in 2012, but I want to see how much he wants to be here before using our tender rights.
Mario has to be first because we need to have some money available to keep him.
The re-structuring of current deals shouldn’t be necessary until we get to Myers/Brisiel, if my calculations are anywhere close. The OL and DL are more important than any one skill player.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
We will probably let Glacier go as well.
This is pretty much the way I’d prioritize them. Not because I think Mario is more important than Foster, but more because of the urgency Mario’s contract demends. I think Foster is young enough that he can afford to be less demanding, and I think he wants to stay here as long as McNair gives him something reasonable.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:41 PM CST up reply actions
Tate (fumbles aside) does well in this system, as does Ward, and as will anyone with the one-cutback and go ability (hard to find, admittedly). But this is the same running system that Denver used to produce a string of 1000 yard rushers out of undrafteds and never-heard-of’s.
Yeah so what about the years 2006-2009 plus most of 2010? You know when the only run game we had was Slaton’s nice rookie year.
Tate isn’t even close to Foster and I thought this became obvious after the Saints debacle where we couldn’t run for shit in the redzone. He also tires quickly due to his aggressive run style and is best suited for about 5-15 carries a game as an alternate back.
Ward is on the back end of his career and may not even be back since his contract expires this year.
And you know Denver did have a lot of success with no name Rb’s being impact players but the best RB from that system was Terrell Davis who was far and away better than any of the RB’s that came after him and carried John Elway to two SuperBowls.
The only two RB’s after him that were close to him in skill in this type of system were Clinton Portis and Arian Foster. All the other guys were above average but they weren’t great game changers.
Minnesota rode AP to 2-14 and the second pick in the draft. CJ2YPC got paid and turned in a season that a second-string JV high-school kid would find embarrassing. LeGarette Blount. Beast Mode. MJD. Some of the best runners in the game and NO ONE of that group made the playoffs (excepting Ray Rice). Two of the (statistically) worst defenses in the league with par or sub-par running games but excellent QB’s with good receivers and great TEs made the Super Bowl. Green Bay wasn’t far behind them.
Who was the Vikings QB again? Did their defense slow anybody down this year? AP is great and he got Tavaris Jackson to the playoffs but he can’t carry rookie/bad QB’s and a bad defense no RB can. Same for the Jags. They had the defense and run game but that rookie QB was terrible for them. Not MJD’s fault that Gabbert would suck that bad and make that offense putrid. Hell even without a passing attack he was still able to hit 1600 yards rushing.
Also comparing the Texans offense (which heavily uses the run) to the Packers makes no sense since both operated in different ways.
Packers defense carried them to a SB win last year. Colts running game won Peyton a SB. 49ers made it to the championship game this year with a run oriented offense as did the Ravens. Hell the Giants weren’t even that good in the regular season but that defense stepped it up and shutout the Falcons,shut down the Packers,shut down the 49ers,shut down the Patriots.
Different teams do it different ways and the Texans offense NEEDS the run game to be operating at a high level in order to be successful.
CJnoK busted true but hell he still hit 1000 yards this year anyways. Can’t always get it right and Arian doesn’t warrant a contract quite that big but he does deserve a nice one.
I say pay him his RFA tender this year, and if the cap money is there next year, resign him. If he’s not going to be happy with RFA and some team throws sick money at him, let him go, start Tate, and look for FA’s and (after the draft) UDFA’s that fit your system. It may be hard to fathom, but we can find another back to fit our system. He won’t be another Arian – but if we’re being real, the run game no longer is pre-requisite to winning championships.
It took about 4 years for Kubiak to find Arian through undrafted FA and only after he got coached up while on the PS squad it’s not a simple “plug and play” situation.
And again the run game for THIS offense is essential and you don’t let your second biggest asset on offense walk then overpay some FA RB as his repalcement.
Prediction: 11-5 AFC South champions.
by Ethan Matz on Feb 9, 2012 4:39 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
Wow. Nice!
I didn’t put in as much time and research and was going knee-jerk (with internet monitoring being what it is, I like to open as few sites as possible during the day – BRB stays up), but those are all well-reasoned and well-researched points. Consider me a fan of this plan, and thank you for your thoroughness.
/prepares to go home and research cap figures and RFA rules
Something clever and witty until I think of something awesome.
by texpatriateCO on Feb 9, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Foster isn't the only factor in this offense
our line is much much better then it ever was before 2010
Watch me all in flames, on a butterfly I ride
I think your post just shows the rest of the personnel are more important than the RB
In 2006-7 we had a shitty offensive line. The ZBS doesn’t work if your OL sucks. The OL personnel started to come together in 2008 when Slaton had his breakout year. In 2009 we had 3 injured starters on the OL. In 2010 they were all healthy again. Are you seeing the pattern here? I would venture to say Myers and Brisiel are more important to our success than Foster, although that doesn’t take away from Foster’s talent. Foster is getting overvalued because he is who you see carrying the ball on your TV. You aren’t seeing Myers pick up a linebacker, or Brown pull all the way across the field on a screen play.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
The difference I see between Foster and Tate is Foster is a game changer at RB
Tate is good, but he is no game changer. Off the top of my head, I can not remember Tate breaking one for a 50 or 60 yard TD but I can remember a couple for Arian. The difference is even greater in my mind when it comes to catching screens. Tate is without a doubt a serviceable RB in our system but he does not bring the home run threat that Arian does on every play.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
1. Give Wade Phillips the Astrodome as payment for his services
Said dome will then be turned into Wade’s World, not to be confused with Wayne’s World (PARTY TIME! EXCELLENT! WEE OOH WEE OOH WEE OOH WEE OHH). However, as influenced by Mr. Meyers, Wade’s World will be staffed with full time Houstonian Butlers who shall follow Mr. Phillips around night and day bowing and shouting “We’re not worthy! We’re not worthy!”
JJ Watt will power Wade’s new home with his pure white boy swag. Everyone will be so impressed that even Kareem will turn his head for once, if only to see what a real first round pick can do. JoJo will deflect any and all panties thrown in Wade’s general direction, at which point these rowdy packs of women will be promptly disposed of….by a ninja. Any cowboys fans within 200m of the property will have their pectoral muscles ripped off by Mario and their Achilles torn’ by ’Meco. If any blood is spilled during this punishment, Cush will barge into scene to out-bleed his opponent, thus proving their masculinity in his presence.
Oh…and Connor will be there too…giving haircuts…or something.
Anyway, take care of all that shit first, then sign Arian.
by SoCalTexan on Feb 9, 2012 4:53 PM CST reply actions 9 recs
I mean immasculinity...stupid butterfingers.
I feel like Wes Welker.
I think having Mario in the rotation
We would be KILLER. I mean one of the best front 7’s of the past decade, if not longer than that. We shouldn’t pass that up. Sign Mario. It has taken us a very, very long time to build this defense, and we should fortify it.
Our Offense works with spare pieces. I LOVE AF. Love him. I think he will take LESS money to stay here in Houston (the city that gave him a chance) and build a dynasty here. But, if he wanted he could go to any other team and be successful. We’re talking about a Marcus Allen HOF caliber RB here. If he wants CJ2K then yeah, tender him…. I don’t think he will though.
Franchise Myers
Sign Briesel
More than likely let Dreesen walk, draft Fleener, Allen or Charles to replace him. One of those guys will fall to the 3rd round.
1st round – BPA (lean towards WR – perfectly fine w/ Rueben Randle – right now)
Maaaybe get a FA WR as well (Pierre Garcon?)
by YohannDookeyblue on Feb 9, 2012 5:00 PM CST reply actions
You can't franchise Myers
The way franchise rules are setup for linemen would make his contract 2-3 times what it should be
That's why I'm at Mario - 1
Defense, defense, defense, pass rush, pass rush, pass rush.
"Lord, beer me strength."
Yes please
It still blows my mind when we are debating between:
1) A 26 year old pass rusher in his prime, at arguably our most important defensive position
2) A RB (who is admittedly great) in today’s NFL where the position isn’t as valuable, and even moreso in our scheme
3) A 30+ year old center that most people on here wanted tarred and feathered just a year ago
I personally like all 3 players but if you have a finite amount of money to spend you worry about the scarcest one first
by Jason Brown on Feb 9, 2012 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"A RB (who is admittedly great) in today’s NFL where the position isn’t as valuable, and even moreso in our scheme"
!!!!!????
Whaddya mean, “even moreso in our scheme”?
Ours is a run-dominated scheme. How the hell does that make the RB not “as valuable”?
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Go read about the zone scheme
Clearly this isn’t going anywhere
I've been watching the ZBS literally for decades.
It can make a decent 1-cut back look good.
A brilliant 1-cut back can drive it to a championship.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Hence why Denver never won a championship before or after Terrell Davis
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, yes Davis I know...
But here’s the problem with that.
1) First, Denver actually did have great success, both rushing and offense in general before Davis. Davis didn’t start playing until 1995 and really took over in 1996. Denver was good in 1993 (#3 Offensive DVOA, #2 rushing), and #11 in 1994. Davis helped them improve but they were already solid
2) You keep implying that they won because of the arrival of Davis. He was just as productive in 95 and 96 when they didn’t win as their two Super Bowl seasons, indicating there is more at play here than just Terrell Davis
3) He had a HOF QB and TE playing with him, surely that has to relate with #2
4) Denver managed top 10 rushing and offensive attacks in 99, 2000 (#5 rush #3 offense), 2002 (#5 offense, #2 rushing), 2003, 2004… despite Davis either not playing or not having an appreciable number of carries (and he wasn’t particularly effective when he did play during those years).
5) Denver’s defense went from #27 in 1995 to #8 in 1997 (very similar to our turnaround).
Their situation is eerily similar to ours. Davis was phenomenal for a few years there, but their offense was solid without him (and similarly not solely dependent on him even when he was great). Their dramatic turnaround on defense likely had more effect on the Super Bowl years, but we as fans like to associate those victories with individuals like Davis.
by Jason Brown on Feb 9, 2012 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's pretty easy to explain, Davis couldn't win without Elway & Elway couldn't win without Davis
It’s that simple. You need at least a really good QB & a really good RB to make the system work
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 9, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
Is Schaub our Elway?
I don’t think so. Luckily, we have #80.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
No, not at all
What I’m saying is at Schaub is a really good QB & Arian is an elite RB in this system, whereas Elway was an elite QB & Davis was a really good RB in this system. You need for both of them to be at least really good. It does help that we have Andre though
Murphy’s 20th Military Law:
If it’s stupid, but it works, it ain’t stupid
"Fuck em all. Go Texans."
by The Night Owl on Feb 11, 2012 12:47 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, it's not as simple as adding one brilliant player, there are other factors involved.
But if you want to claim that a brilliant RB is unimportant, as you seem to, I must disagree.
The Texans seem to have an opportunity to be champions. If they pull it off, it will probably be by the skin of their teeth, as the Giants did Sunday. Wouldn’t you say Foster could give them just enough extra skin in that game?
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I never said RB is unimportant
but it’s about prioritizing your needs, especially in relation to priority positions on defense.
I don’t see how the Denver situation could be any clearer:
—Terrell Davis is brilliant while the defense is horrible and the team goes nowhere.
—The defense improves, they win the Super Bowl.
—After the Super Bowl they lose Elway and the defense regresses while they get almost identical production from their running game and the team as a whole does horrible
It’s funny that you mention the recent Super Bowl with the Patriots who had that heralded rushing attack of Benjarvus Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead…
As a fan, I love Foster and wish he would stay here for the rest of his career, but it has to be at the right price and it can’t be at the cost of good defensive players. You win in this league from QB play and defense, rarely from tying up a large chunk of your salary cap in your RB.
by Jason Brown on Feb 9, 2012 9:46 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Your logic is faulty
Using this logic, we should just let all three of them go, and let scrubs step in thier places. Then, each year from here on, we shouldn’t worry about keeping high performance players, but just keep drafting new meat to replace the experienced costly players that we release because the system is so good we don’t need them.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
Where did you get that?
My logic was to spend your money on defense (which would include Mario). And “setting a price” does not equal “let them go”
That was not meant for you.
somehow, i’ve responded to the wrong post. In fact, I can’t even find the post i was trying to respond to. I’ve lost it.
I was replying to someone who was saying [paraphrasing] that the system works with whoever we plug into it and we don’t need elite players.
I don’t have any idea how my reply ended up way down here, unless its because I confused it with the other one which also argued defense first.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 10, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
there's a little truth
in every reply fail.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
by texanphil on Feb 10, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
seriously this just perplexes me
it wasn’t that long ago on BRB that you could expect people to at least read your comment before shooting it down was it?
/back to the basement for a few months I guess
You have been in the basement?
I don’t remember seeing you around there
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I am Barry - I am from Texas
by Barryfromtexas on Feb 9, 2012 11:57 PM CST up reply actions
lol
different basement. I guess lurking and not commenting would be more appropiate. I tried the basement, but that shit is just weird.. and the smell!
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
The smell is mostly from PUD's goat
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I am Barry - I am from Texas
by Barryfromtexas on Feb 10, 2012 12:16 AM CST up reply actions
the smell is mostly from PUD the goat
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 10, 2012 8:36 AM CST up reply actions
Just for perspective on all the Tate/Foster discussion
I recommend you at least check out this page http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb
I’m not saying a couple of metrics make Tate better or even as good as Foster, nor am I ignoring all of Foster’s intangibles. No matter which side you come down on, it’s important to know what you have before you decide where to draw the line in the sand on Arian
Here you go
1. Resign Foster
2. Resign Myers
3. Restructure – walter, ryans, schaub, antonio
4. Go for Mike Wallace
5. Go for Stanford Routt
1B. CUT JACOBY
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Feb 9, 2012 6:25 PM CST reply actions
No chance mike Wallace leaves Pitt
And we don’t need that burner type necessarily. I think manningham or meachem would be better fits and a lot cheaper
Not sure routt is that much of an upgrade considering he will get a ton of money from someone. Lots of teams need CBs right now
Agree with the first two for sure
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 9, 2012 7:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No chance mike Wallace leaves Pitt
And we don’t need that burner type necessarily. I think manningham or meachem would be better fits and a lot cheaper
Not sure routt is that much of an upgrade considering he will get a ton of money from someone. Lots of teams need CBs right now
Agree with the first two for sure
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 9, 2012 7:45 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I myselfed myself!
@THEREALALLENOU on twitter - "The man, the verb, the legend" OU'd
by AllenOU on Feb 9, 2012 7:46 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
isn't that illegal or something?
pics or gtfo…….I’m confused on how to act in this situation.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 8:08 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
My priorities:
1. Re-sign Mario
2. Re-sign Myers
3. Sign Foster to a deal
Mario Williams makes a difference to this defense. Without him, Antonio Smith didn’t have remotely the impact he did when Mario was playing. In short, he’s one of those players that offensive coordinators have to gameplan for specifically.
If this were a year where Foster was at risk of leaving, I would move him higher up, but if worse comes to worst, the Texans can afford to wait to address his contract issues; I’m not saying they SHOULD wait, but it’s not like if they do nothing they risk losing him to free agency this season as opposed to Mario and Myers.
Former Thane of Glamis and Cawdor.
Despite my better judgment, a manager at Battle Red Blog.
Supreme Galactic Editor of Battle Red Onion.
I am a visionary, I am a genius, and now I am angry! Now where are those pants at?!
by UprootedTexan on Feb 9, 2012 9:03 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
off topic
for anyone still prowling at this hour. bleacher report has released their power rankings for next season. texans come in at……..wait for it…….number TWO. had to spell it for effect. projected record……..13-3 no. 1 seed. projected superbowl………green bay vs…….your muthafuckin’ houston “bulls on parade” texans. god these next six months are gonna blow.
by HTown80 on Feb 9, 2012 10:31 PM CST via Android app reply actions
bleacher report is far from journalistic high standards
then again nothing meaningful is considered news anymore
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 9, 2012 10:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"bleacher report is far from journalistic high standards "
Rec’d for understatement.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
we're on the radar
I don’t care if jim rome endorses us, we’ve still “arrived”
by HTown80 on Feb 10, 2012 12:15 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Obviously
The most important thing:
raise ticket prices
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I am Barry - I am from Texas
I knew you would respond to this one :)
"Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them." - George Orwell
I am Barry - I am from Texas
by Barryfromtexas on Feb 10, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
Stanford Routt released by Raiders
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AtjhRuPQHj7NYGmNdSBMAv9DubYF?slug=ap-raiders-routt
Too bad we prolly can’t aford him, but if we could, wouldn’t make a nice tandem with Joseph?
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
wouldn't he*
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 9, 2012 10:59 PM CST up reply actions
1st Sign Arian
2nd Sign Myers
3rd Try and restructure Walter, Jones (for dirt cheap), Kareem (he should pay us)
4th sign mario (hopefully for LB not DE money)
5th the draft. Justin Blackmon scares me. For as good as scouts hype his hands, I watched him drop a lot of balls. Every game he had drops…TO drops. Alshon Jeffery is my pick. OLB Depth. TE (seriously though).
6th sign Peyton Manning. Thats right! Look what he did with the abysmal Colts. They have no line, their best recievers name can’t be spelled correctly on a computer, Reggie Wayne was terrible, and their defense was worse. Now think about the music Peyton and Andre could play. Play actions would be crazy. And that defense would actually mean he doesn’t have to make game winning drives every week. It would be fantastic, and you know it.
Here's mine...
1. Cut Jakespeare and others necessary to free cap space (Lienart etc.)/ Restructure contracts (Demeco, Walter in particular) cut Walter if necessary and have viable, cheaper replacement.
2. Resign Arian at all costs
3. Resign Mario IF we can do it while still having the cap space to lock up some of our most important FAs next year as well (cushing, duane brown, GQ, i understand barwin will likely be gone if we resign mario.)
4. Resign Chris Myers
5. Resign Mike Brisiel
6. Let Dreessen walk and move Casey back to TE
7. Draft Period: take Mohamed Sanu in the first round, if hes not on the board possibly trade back and gain another 2nd and 3rd or 4th rounder. if trade back take Jones or Toon in the 2nd along with Ta’amu or Poe. and then 3rd/4th take David Molk and best available reciever (i would like Mcnutt if hes there). Later rounds draft for linebacker depth (Audie Cole/Tank Carder if there) and O-line depth. (if we draft Sanu and dont trade back then take best of the players i listed available with our original picks, do need to double up on recievers this draft)
"2. Resign Arian at all costs"
I doubt you mean that literally.
Even a delusional Arian fanboi like me would not be in favor of matching a crazy offer. If Snyder or some other fool offers him starting QB money, we’ll have to say bye-bye to our star RB.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
yeah..
i knew once i posted it, that the “at all costs” may have been bad wording. what i meant was do everything in our power to keep foster in houston, put the first round tender on him and offer him the highest reasonable offer. but if he gets an absurd offer elsewhere that just doesnt make sense then we would have to let him walk. im confident tho that he will resign tho.
“we would have to let him walk”.. fuck that was hard to type
by TexansAddict on Feb 10, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
"we would have to let him walk".. fuck that was hard to type
I know, right?
The thought of starting what should be our greatest season ever with Arian on some other team just makes me ill.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Putting on the GM hat
1. Cut Jacoby, Leinart, Cody.
2. Tender Foster and wait for offer sheets to come in.
3. Resign Myers
4. Get a CB in FA to compete with KJ
5. Sign a veteran backup QB
6. Resign Brisiel
7. Make a reasonable offer to Mario
8. Match best offer on Foster
9. 3 year extension to Schaub to create more cap space
10. Draft a NT and WR in the first two rounds
11. Draft OLB and Interior OL in rounds 3 and 4.
12. Go BPA
13. ???
14. Profit!
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
So you expect that your low first or second round NT
Will immediately be able to play in place of Cody? Or you think Mitchell will start? I wouldn’t cut the starter without clearly knowing what you are putting in his place. What if your draft pick winds up not working out?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 8:57 AM CST up reply actions
You act as if Cody is anything more than an average talent
I would expect a 1st or 2nd round rookie to play immediately and rotate with Mitchell. He’d be fairly cheap and have much better long term upside than Cody.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
He's just making a rational point. No acting involved.....
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Cutting a veteran defender and signing a rookie to start immediately has worked out so well for us.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
Not sure if sarcasm
But if it is, I think it is misplaced. Ryans, Cushing, Reed, Mario, Brown, Winston, Watt have all started as rookies and played well. Do you honestly think Cody’s average play can’t be replaced in the draft?
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
I would agree with you that Cody could be replaced with a young stud draft pick
I guess the argument would would be to figure out who that draft pick could be and take the discussion in that direction. Also, looking at the list of players you named, I am trying to think of the veteran that the Texans “cut” to make room for that rookie and I can not think of their names.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I'm not cutting Cody specifically to make room for a rookie
I just don’t think we need to pay him 2mil next year when a rookie will have more upside.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Okay, that is slightly different from what we have been talking about
But, you did say “Cut Cody.” And, if I’m not mistaken, not paying him would really be cutting him. Are you suggesting that the Texans renegotiate and keep Cody? If he would agree to that, then that would be a compromise from cutting him. You have to admit, there is no guarantee that a late 1st round or late 2nd round NT will start and be effective. Plus, I am not up on the rookie pay scale. Do you know what the 26th pick would get including guaranteed money? Plus, doesn’t Cody have some guaranteed money going against the team in 2012, so cutting him does not make it all go away.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I was cutting Cody because I don't think he is worth his 2012 salary
I don’t know how much of it exactly counts against the cap, that number as usual always seems to vary when you look it up. His extension last year only had 1.5mil in guaranteed money, so I would hope cutting him would cost us close to nothing. If he wanted to renegotiate to the vet minimum and stay as depth, I wouldn’t be terribly opposed to it IF there is room on the 53 when its all said and done. I just think he is expendable, and its time to put some more upside in the position. The Earl Mitchell project seems to be frizzling out.
While there is no guarantee that a early draft pick will be effective, there is 100% guarantee that Cody will never be anything more than average.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
We decided not to pay Dunta
(whether or not he was technically cut is not relevant.)
His rookie replacement didn’t work out so well.
My point being that we know what we have in Cody. Even if he is at best serviceable, that beats an absolute unknown that the 26th (or 52nd?) draft pick would be.
Mitchell couldn’t win the starting job, and I’m not even sure that he’s considered a co-starter such as we have at the CB2 position. If we must remove one NT and draft a new one, why do we cut Cody and keep Mitchell?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
I’d disagree that serviceable beats unknown…by that logic why draft rookies at all?
"Lord, beer me strength."
Is he chewing up so much cap room that it makes more sense to cut him now rather than later?
And is Mitchell using so little room that it makes sense to keep him?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
It's also possible they have different roles
Mitchell at least has some pass rush ability (feel free to debate how much, I have no clue what’s really there with him) which gives him value as depth. I’m not sure if there is anyone else on the roster that we would want to play inside on passing downs where our alignment is more like a 4-3.
That’s not the only explanation, but explains keeping Mitchell despite him not being a starter
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
To clarify, that is “playing inside” as a sub for Watt and Antonio. In no way am I saying in place of
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
And I'm not saying Cody is necessarily worth keeping.
But unless he is tying up a huge amount of cap room I don’t see cutting him before we even know if we can get at least as much out of a rookie. Or do people consider Cody as bad as Travis Johnson?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 11:40 AM CST up reply actions
Oh I agree with you completely
I wouldn’t cut him before preseason for sure. His salary isn’t exactly going to free up enough money to sign a WR or keep one of our big 3, so there isn’t any clear advantage to cutting him early.
If you make it through preseason and like what you have in a rookie + Mitchell (or whatever else shows up), then sure cut him and give the roster spot to someone with potential to grow. His cap space is probably more valuable for in-season flexibility (in case of injuries) than off-season maneuvering
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
To develop behind a serviceable player?
You can draft a nose tackle and still keep Cody. Weren’t the Amobi apologists claiming that there was a steep learning curve at DT? The same goes for WR. If you draft a receiver, Walter is still most likely starting in 2012. This team is too solid right now with what they have to go changing out parts.
by Nashmeister on Feb 10, 2012 11:47 AM CST up reply actions
Myers was less than serviceable and now look
What if the team had cut him?
How does anyone know that the new player is going to be any better, let alone serviceable. The notion of cutting a player simply for the fact of replacing him with an untested rookie is just a stupid idea, logic be damned.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
that logic makes no sense
How else would you ever upgrade positions if you don’t let some guys go? I didn’t hear anyone cry foul when we cut Andre Davis, Zac Diles, or guys like Bennett and Molden. There wasn’t much proven depth at all behind those guys. Myers was injured that one bad year he was here, Cody has been here for 3 years now. I think we know what he ceiling is, and its kinda low.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
the only one of those that started when they were cut was Zac Diles.
And Cody is not expensive in 2012. Draft behind him, compete at camp, but keep him.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
My point, too
It is futile to argue with DaGoat on this. All his points have no logic or are totally made just to put something in print. Either way they never stand up on their own.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
also
They cut Wilson to replace him with a guy who had never played safety before, let Leach walk and replaced him with a guy who was a TE the year before. There isn’t much logic for not upgrading Cody. Roster spots are tight, we aren’t going to keep 4 NTs. If I have to chose between Cody and Mitchell, I chose Mitchell.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Wilson was truly horrendous.
Just a massive liability every time he stepped onto the field. Cody is not that.
And Leach was a free agent; different situation. Not to mention, they went out and signed a proven FB, anyways.
by Nashmeister on Feb 10, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
WRs go 5 or 6 deep
NT is one position. We don’t have room to be keeping 3-4 NTs. If we draft one, somebody has to go.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
Okay, so don't draft one, then
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
exactly!
What would be the point of drafting anyone if the unknown is just too risky?
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
The point is, if you quit the job you have without having another one waiting, you might go hungry a while.
That’s the “iron parachute” approach once favored by a friend of mine, who had a habit of yelling “I quit!” when he got pissed off at work.
By all means, draft a NT or two. Cut Cody if a rookie looks better than him in camp, but don’t bet everything on a guy you’ve never had on your practice field.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 10, 2012 12:23 PM CST up reply actions
I think any decision on Cody has to take "On the Nose" into consideration
I’m not ready to give that up.
Problem solved.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
BTW, ^ this argument is more valid than any that DaGoat has presented....
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
Right.
It’s called “intangibles”.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
I like that you noted you will have to eventually match Foster if you tender him
I agree Mario might be the higher priority because you have to do something with him this year while Foster still technically has another year, but no way someone does not go after him for only a 1st rounder. You are most likely going to have to match an offer or let him walk regardless, so in reality you are going to have to deal with Foster this year as well.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
It's possible
Most team use running back by committees now and rarely anyone uses a 1st round pick on a running back (only 1 is really considered 1st round worthy).
"Lord, beer me strength."
I wonder how many teams would give up a 1st
for any RB in the league? You would have to think you were on the edge of playoffs/championship and most of those teams either don’t seem to care much about the RB position (GB, NE) or you already have your guy (NO, Balt, SF, Det, Pit).
I can’t imagine a young rebuilding team giving up a 1st (which would likely be a high one at that) on any non-QB veteran when they have so many needs either. That never happens outside of Oakland
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I hope you're right.
I just don’t trust all the other franchises to be rational about free agents. There are some real nitwits out there in positions of power.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 10, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
But would Arian go to any of those teams.
Or does he have a choice?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty sure he does have a choice
I think for RFA teams can negotiate with him and come up with an offer but he doesn’t have to take it
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
I just read up on it
here, and it sounds like if we tender him he can negotiate with other teams and must sign an offer sheet to put us on the clock to match.
So at any point in there, the ball is really in his court about the 2012 season, at least.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
And depending on his character, he may decide not to go to some of *those* teams.
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
A bunch of zeroes can have a profound influence on "character" in this context.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
Like the Raiders....they are batshit crazy over there
The JaMarcus Russell bust will live in infamy:
I hear he’s over 400lbs now…
by MeMongo on Feb 10, 2012 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 10 recs
HAHAHA
That is just awesome, thanks Mongo
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
next time put a warning about seizures
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 10, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
This is not green yet?
Dallas Cowboys, all hat and no cattle since 1996.
"Will it never be noon?" Duke of Orleans to the Dauphin and Constable of France every Sunday before the Texans play.
by Jonathan Fosburgh on Feb 10, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
I greened all over this
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
Mongo! you da man. LOL.
If everybody was somebody, then nobody would be anybody - Gilbert and Sullivan
by professortex on Feb 10, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
Good point
Predicting rationality is a completely different animal…I’m just hoping the constraints they are working under prevent them from doing something stupid, but it does happen
by Jason Brown on Feb 10, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
I see your point about most teams not taking a RB in the first
But I think most teams would willingly give up a 1st rounder for a proven pro bowler. Every rookie is a bust possibility no matter how highly they are rated. Foster is a known commodity. Maybe I am just speaking for myself, but lets say we could get a very good WR or NT and in turn lose our 1st round pick. I would do that without a second thought. Sure, the rookie we could have picked might have ended up better, but they also could have ended up a bust. Taking a known commodity wins IMO every time.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
I think it only comes to the tender if Arian believes he should be paid more than Rick is willing to devote to the RB1 position against the cap.
You are correct in what you say, but if he’s tendered, I have to think he’s already turned down a cap-friendly (+ a little) deal. So then to put the ball back in your court, after the tender, you are faced with a 1st rounder (lets say 15-20th pick) or $8M against the cap to bring him back. What do you do?
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
That's why I am not a GM :)
I really don’t know what I would do in that situation. I honestly believe that there is a big drop off from Foster to Tate, and Foster is much more than just a system back. I think people are under estimating how talented he truly is when they say our system can get 1,000 yards out of anyone. But the question is, would $8M be too much? I can’t say. I do know I will be heart broken if we lose him though, and I am not exaggerating at all.
"Never underestimate the dumb with JJ" - Hugh Jarce
Tate was very limited last year
and came within a few yards of 1000. Its really not a stretch to say we can churn out 1,000 yarders.
But that isn’t what Foster gives us. Foster is a weapon who the defense must account for in many different ways. He makes our passing game work. He is a big part of our passing game. His vision is a thing of beauty.
But all of that doesn’t mean he can’t price himself out of a Texans uniform. Every player has a max value to this team. I hope his cap # falls under that value.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Well put; that's the situation in a nutshell.
Arian’s deal is the biggest off-season issue for the Texans, bigger than Mario’s situation or finding a WR.
Pardon me for repeating myself, but he’s the best player on the team. Losing him would be a calamity.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
by FreedomRide on Feb 12, 2012 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Well, it's not technically an issue...
In that he is a RFA. I agree that you wanna pay him now simply out of good will (and to avoid any unpleasantness). But he’s a Texan in 2012 no matter what happens.
by Nashmeister on Feb 12, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Thats not completely true
The Texans have to match any offer sheet Foster gets from another team in order to retain him in 2012. If they do not, Foster is gone.
The Houston Texans: The Ron Paul of the NFL.
If they don't match, then they get whatever draft picks the tender says and they don't have to pay Foster
They are left with Tate and Ward at RB plus fill-in-the-blank in an offense that all you need is fill-in-the-blank.
"All our lives we're taught to get in line. The ones who conform never discover." - Undrafted Free Agent and NFL Rushing Leader Arian Foster
I think that many of us are leaving out a big part of arian's game.
catching out of the backfield. he was extremely successful gaining yards this way and i would hate to lose a dual threat runningback of his caliber. tate can pound the rock but his hands are not the greatest. ward can glacier his way to first downs but he can’t catch the ball or pass pro as well as arian. i hope that rick smith knows what he is doing because this will be a very tight and stressed signing period.
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma
vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
"I believe in this "zombie team that won’t fucking die no matter how many body parts you shoot off." We can win this game.
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Feb 10, 2012 12:42 PM CST reply actions
Arian Foster
the Texans were right up against the cap in 2011. Andre Johnson was $9.3M, Schaub was $8.3M…
Nevermind. I started this comment trying to convince everybody that $8M for a RB plus a first rounder was too expensive, but its gonna take that to get him in the top 7 RBs in the league. I guarantee he feels he deserves that. I don’t know that we’re in a position for something like that, but who knows.
TJ must throw 30 times for us to win.
Man, yer making me sick!
Because I think you’re right. I think there is a real chance we’re going to lose one of my favorite players ever.
The suspense is already killing me. I’m thinking maybe I should get myself put in one o’ them medically-induced coma things until this is all over.
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
this shit is a no brainer
1. lock up arian no matter what.
2. lock up myers and briesel
3. attempt to resign mario if he will stay all good if not we get a cheaper f.a. olb perhaps spencer from dallas.
4. cut leinhart, and jacoby,
draft goes:
1st round big receiver (sanu, randall, floyd)
2nd nt alamu
3rd slot guy like broyles
4th ol depth
5th lb depth
6th 3rd string qb
"Is that right?????" SURE!?!!!??!!
F**K you're agenda
Poetry in Motion- Arian Foster''
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